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AngelsDecay
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:22 am

I will miss the Viking callsign if vkg already goes into dust too.. Since the good old days of scanair and premiair...
 
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OA260
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:30 am

List of airlines drafted in to operate the rescue flights are LL,U2,VS,BA,5Y,MH,ZT ,5M,YU ,2D . CAA booking passengers on some BA sched flights. May see some aircraft swaps to increase capacity.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:33 am

eagles94 wrote:
So it’s not as bleak as everybody first thought! Glad to see we’ll have TCX around for more years to come


Well, four months at least...
 
MikeyESSA
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:34 am

I'll try to translate the official message from Ving, their swedish travelling agency. Seems like they and TCAS are not bankrupt, as of yet:

Vings ägare Thomas Cook Group har idag tidigt på morgonen ansökt om konkurs. Då flygbolaget som flyger majoriteten av Vinggruppens gäster i Norden ägs av Thomas Cook Group, så kommer resenärer under måndagen att drabbas av inställda flyg som en följd av konkursen.

Thomas Cook Groups ansökan om konkurs är ett resultat av att den planerade rekapitaliseringen inte kunnat genomföras. Det innebär tillsvidare att Vinggruppens flygbolag, Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia, är förhindrade att flyga. Ledningen för flygbolaget i Norden har därför fattat beslut att ställa in samtliga flygningar under måndagen. Samtidigt utvärderas all övrig flygtrafik och som ett resultat av TC Groups konkurs har Vinggruppens ledning tills vidare beslutat att ställa in alla flygresor från Norden.


"The owner of Ving, Thomas Cook Group, has early morning today applied for bankruptcy. Since the airline that operated most of our flights in the nordics is owned by Thomas Cook Group, our passengers will face flight cancellations during monday.

The application for bankruptcy comes after the process of refinancing has failed. This means that in the meantime, our airline Thomas Cook Scandinavia are unable to operate their flights. The nordic management have therefore made the desicion to cancel all of the flights sheduled for today, monday. All other flights are currently being evaluated, and as a result of the bankruptcy of Thomas Cook Group the management at Ving have decided to cancel all flights from the nordic countries until further notice. "

- The message is longer, but I don't have time as of now to translate that too. It mostly says the standard stuff that they regret to have to take this decision and will work their hardest to take care of all their affected customers abroad.
 
Armodeen
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:38 am

Tremendously sad if not unexpected news to wake up to this morning. I guess this means the family and I aren’t going on holiday as planned in October, but since I was aware of TCXs financial issues when I booked it I will get a refund either from ATOL or my credit card issuer.

Far worse is the fates of the 9000 who find themselves out of work after a presumably sleepless night. My thoughts are with them on this wet and dismal morning in the UK.
 
chimborazo
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:50 am

My brother works for TC. Worked? It’s not clear what’s actually happening. Here’s the email from the CEO- lots of words but no substance:

Important Business Update
CF

CEOPeter Fankhauser
Mon 23/09/2019 02:22

Dear Colleagues,

It is with a heavy heart that I write this message to you. Despite the best efforts of so many people, I deeply regret to inform you that after many months of fierce negotiation we have failed to find the support required for the continued future of the Thomas Cook Group. I know you will find this incredibly difficult to digest – as I do. However, I want you to know that the team and I explored every avenue and beyond to save this business.

Late last night the Board took the decision to file for the insolvency of the UK businesses, including our UK based airline. In the early hours of this morning the High Court appointed the Official Receiver to act as liquidator. Unfortunately this means that with immediate effect these businesses cease to trade.

The UK businesses are now under the control of the Official Receiver who has appointed AlixPartners and KPMG as Special Managers to oversee the liquidation, and importantly, in the case of AlixPartners, to work with the business to assist the CAA who will now take charge of the repatriation of our UK customers, ensuring their safe passage home.

These insolvency proceedings do not involve our Continental and Nordic businesses. For those outside of the UK jurisdiction please refer to your local management teams to understand what this means for your business.

The coming weeks are going to be extremely difficult. However, I know I can rely on you all to behave in the same exemplary way you have always done in times of crisis. Shortly, you will receive invitations to relevant townhalls and team meetings that will be supported by our HR colleagues and professionals from AlixPartners or KPMG.

It has been an honour and my great privilege to work with all of you for the past 20 years. I am so proud of everything you have done to keep our customers at the heart of everything we do; your dedication and expertise is the reason why Thomas Cook will always be one of the best loved brands in travel.

Thank you for all of your support. I truly wish you all the best for your future.

Best regards,

Peter
 
MareBorealis
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News 87and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:52 am

SASViking wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
SASViking wrote:
It's indeed very odd. It's also still possible to order from the taxfree shop for DK flights on their website.

Most probably handled by third party which run the website for them. Soon enough it will be off.

Those owned resort most probably will be most probably be taken over by creditors administrators soon.

Spies (the Danish part of Thomas Cook Group) have just updated their website. They state that until further notice it's only flights that were scheduled for Monday September 23, that have been cancelled. They don't know if they can operate on Tuesday. They also say that they tried to get the Monday morning flights to operate but had to cancel last minute


Tjäreborg (Finnish Thomas Cook) says the same. And the booking site is still open..
 
T4thH
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:56 am

Last five Thomas Cook jets in the air on the regular flight/way home to UK. Verify fast, these will be the last.regular flights. The last will be home in 2:45 h
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/fleet/TCX
Normal duty for Condor., now many are on their way out and on the way back.
https://de.flightaware.com/live/fleet/CFG
 
aircatalonia
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:01 am

Why did they go bankrupt? Couldn't they rise prices? Demand is lower?
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:05 am

Thomas Cook collapses, leaving thousands of travelers stranded

By Clare Duffy and Rob McLean, CNN Business

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/22/business ... index.html

Capping a painful year, 178-year-old British tour operator Thomas Cook collapsed Sunday night, stranding hundreds of thousands of travelers.
The company said in a statement that its board "concluded that it had no choice but to take steps to enter into compulsory liquidation with immediate effect."
"An application was made to the High Court for a compulsory liquidation of the Company before opening of business today and an order has been granted to appoint the Official Receiver as the liquidator of the Company," it said in the statement.
Peter Fankhauser, Thomas Cook's chief executive, apologized to customers, employees, suppliers and partners.

"This marks a deeply sad day for the company which pioneered package holidays and made travel possible for millions of people around the world," Fankhauser said.


Sad day for the airline industry.
Last edited by DIRECTFLT on Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
questions
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:10 am

Does the UK have anything similar to Chapter 11 (Reorganization)? Or do companies go straight to the equivalent of Chapter 7?
 
F9Animal
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:19 am

aircatalonia wrote:
Why did they go bankrupt? Couldn't they rise prices? Demand is lower?


Based on the research I just did, Thomas Cook was more than an airline. They had over 500 travel agency types of shops. The airline itself was doing very well apparently. The CEO attempted to sell the airline, in hopes of using that money to pay off the debts of it's travel agency side.

What I don't understand is why the CEO was so bent on keeping all those stores open? Apparently those stores were bleeding Thomas Cook bad. I can't remember the last time I used or even saw a travel agency. I mean, I assume a majority of people book online now.

Here is a few articles I found from the last few months, and it includes interviews with the CEO. I'm surprised more wasn't done to try and slow the bleeding down since those interviews. Maybe the main creditors will revive the airline side of it? And if I got anything wrong on my assessment (yes, I spent a short time trying to research,) someone here can correct me!

And to all those with Thomas Cook. I am so so sorry about this. God knows I have been in this situation a few too many times in my airline career. Hoping for a miracle and a last minute white knight.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-05-16/peo ... cord-loss/


https://www.itv.com/news/2019-07-12/tho ... oel-hills/
 
Blerg
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:28 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
NearMiss wrote:
Man, it's been quite a year in terms of airlines dissapearing.


We aren't done yet.


Is Norwegian next? I am shocked that airline is still around.


I think Adria Airways from Slovenia is next, they had three of their planes repossessed last week and their operations are falling apart on a daily basis.
 
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adambrau
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:38 am

danipawa wrote:
so this year: XL, Aigle, JOON, JetAiways, Thomas Cook, WOW, Avianca Argentina, Oceanair,. Germania, FlyBMI...


Joon just got rolled back into mainline Air France so not in the case as others you mentioned.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:41 am

More from the CNN article:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/22/business ... index.html
The British government has a plan to bring home the 160,000 UK travelers possibly stranded by Thomas Cook's collapse. Thomas Cook on Friday confirmed to CNN that it currently has 600,000 customers on vacation, including those 160,000 from the United Kingdom.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:43 am

questions wrote:
Does the UK have anything similar to Chapter 11 (Reorganization)? Or do companies go straight to the equivalent of Chapter 7?


Under administration, the creditors (or their representatives) can attempt to restructure to keep the business operating. If administration fails, a business is closed and assets sold off.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:00 am

OA260 wrote:
List of airlines drafted in to operate the rescue flights are LL,U2,VS,BA,5Y,MH,ZT ,5M,YU ,2D . CAA booking passengers on some BA sched flights. May see some aircraft swaps to increase capacity.


LL is Allegro from Mexico. They ceased operations in 2004. Are you sure you have them right? I guess 5Y has one 738 passenger frame for wet leasing. 5M is Fly Montserrat, which is a single-aircraft concern with one BN-2 Islander good for 9 passengers. I guess they can help get a few people from Montserrat to other Caribbean islands with service back to England. 2D is all charter but I didn't even know that they were up and running yet.
 
icelandair75w
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:21 am

DocLightning wrote:
OA260 wrote:
List of airlines drafted in to operate the rescue flights are LL,U2,VS,BA,5Y,MH,ZT ,5M,YU ,2D . CAA booking passengers on some BA sched flights. May see some aircraft swaps to increase capacity.


LL is Allegro from Mexico. They ceased operations in 2004. Are you sure you have them right? I guess 5Y has one 738 passenger frame for wet leasing. 5M is Fly Montserrat, which is a single-aircraft concern with one BN-2 Islander good for 9 passengers. I guess they can help get a few people from Montserrat to other Caribbean islands with service back to England. 2D is all charter but I didn't even know that they were up and running yet.


LL is Miami Air, looks like they have one 738 approaching ZTH. Don't know if it's related to this though.
https://www.flightradar24.com/BSK1596/22354765
 
usflyguy
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:24 am

DocLightning wrote:
OA260 wrote:
List of airlines drafted in to operate the rescue flights are LL,U2,VS,BA,5Y,MH,ZT ,5M,YU ,2D . CAA booking passengers on some BA sched flights. May see some aircraft swaps to increase capacity.


LL is Allegro from Mexico. They ceased operations in 2004. Are you sure you have them right? I guess 5Y has one 738 passenger frame for wet leasing. 5M is Fly Montserrat, which is a single-aircraft concern with one BN-2 Islander good for 9 passengers. I guess they can help get a few people from Montserrat to other Caribbean islands with service back to England. 2D is all charter but I didn't even know that they were up and running yet.


LL is Miami Air Int.
5Y is Atlas Air, which has passenger 747's and 767's.
2D is Eastern Airlines/Swift/Dynamic... whatever they're called nowdays and have a few 767's
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:26 am

Blerg wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:

We aren't done yet.


Is Norwegian next? I am shocked that airline is still around.


I think Adria Airways from Slovenia is next, they had three of their planes repossessed last week and their operations are falling apart on a daily basis.

Oh dear, thanks for the information. Just read online, three CRJ900 have been repossessed and they do not own any of their fleet (which is relatively small 3 A319, 2 CRJ700, 9 CRJ 900 and 6 Saab 2000). The management is blaming the German investors for the mess. Oh dear.

https://www.exyuaviation.com/2019/09/tw ... essed.html
https://aeronauticsonline.com/adria-air ... l-trouble/

Sorry, am off course quite a bit here.
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:41 am

Last flight almost home! Can't imagine what's going on in that plane right now

Image
 
MareBorealis
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:43 am

Confusion with Thomas Cook Scandinavia in HEL this morning. Passengers heading to Larnaca were first told "doesn't effect us", then were let to check in but the flight was cancelled only a few minutes before boarding. The company's representative could only tell no flights today, the faith of DK seems to be unclear still.
 
Stickpusher
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:47 am

Amid all the chaos to holidaymakers now and staff into a less certain future I can't help but wonder if there's some poor soul in particular, that jumped from Primera Air to Monarch, and from there to TCX. I hope not. Surely nobody's life deserves that much chaos over such a short period.

I saw a TCX A321 (YL-LCZ, leased frame) pass over a day or two back and thought to myself, "hang on guys", but there's no business quite like the airlines to make financiers skittish.

Hopefully Condor and Nordic can keep the brand aloft rather as XL did in France (although perhaps not for long in the case of XL).

At a time when air transport in the UK faces some flux, it's no time to come onto the jobs market. I wish everybody well for their futures.
Last edited by Stickpusher on Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
FCAFLYBOY
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:50 am

G-MLJL A332 is en-route MCO-MAN landing in 10 minutes as the final ever Thomas Cook Airlines UK flight. Very sad news.

Hopefully someone can catch her final landing at MAN.
 
QF93
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:44 am

Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:53 am

Kent350787 wrote:
questions wrote:
Does the UK have anything similar to Chapter 11 (Reorganization)? Or do companies go straight to the equivalent of Chapter 7?


Under administration, the creditors (or their representatives) can attempt to restructure to keep the business operating. If administration fails, a business is closed and assets sold off.


Interestingly, TC went straight into liquidation (ie the U.K. equivalent of Chapter 7) rather than attempting the Administration route (which is the closest thing the U.K. can claim to the equivalent of Ch 11 restructuring).

Not sure whether that is a reflection of the creditors’ views that a restructure wasn’t even remotely likely, or some other more technical legal reason.

My thoughts are with all impacted employees at this difficult time.
 
flyjay123
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:59 am

F9Animal wrote:
aircatalonia wrote:
Why did they go bankrupt? Couldn't they rise prices? Demand is lower?


Based on the research I just did, Thomas Cook was more than an airline. They had over 500 travel agency types of shops. The airline itself was doing very well apparently. The CEO attempted to sell the airline, in hopes of using that money to pay off the debts of it's travel agency side.

What I don't understand is why the CEO was so bent on keeping all those stores open? Apparently those stores were bleeding Thomas Cook bad. I can't remember the last time I used or even saw a travel agency. I mean, I assume a majority of people book online now.

Here is a few articles I found from the last few months, and it includes interviews with the CEO. I'm surprised more wasn't done to try and slow the bleeding down since those interviews. Maybe the main creditors will revive the airline side of it? And if I got anything wrong on my assessment (yes, I spent a short time trying to research,) someone here can correct me!

And to all those with Thomas Cook. I am so so sorry about this. God knows I have been in this situation a few too many times in my airline career. Hoping for a miracle and a last minute white knight.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-05-16/peo ... cord-loss/


https://www.itv.com/news/2019-07-12/tho ... oel-hills/


My Local Thomas Cook travel agency, which had been there since I was a wee child, abruptly closed earlier this year. So they were attempting to get out of expensive leases and close - where possible. Business rates probably didnt help either!

Interestigly enough - the likes of the Flight center and STA travel agency stores appear to be doing well...

I think TC high street stores didn't diversity enough to create the perception they are more than just a TC Holiday shop - and were an all rounder travel agency - which they were when I was a child, before this 'Branding' synergy took hold of the travel business!
Last edited by flyjay123 on Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:59 am

Condor is showing all flights operating normally. However, many Condor flights are operated by other airlines, including Thomas Cook Balearics. TC Balearics is supposedly affected by the bankruptcy and has ceased operations; no sign of any impact on Condor so far.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:04 am

ryan78 wrote:
On a side note, Air Transat was due to take on 10 Thomas Cook A321's in Nov/Dec for winter seasonal lease. What happens to those lease agreements now? Is Transat SOL in this case?

What does SOL stand for?
 
flyjay123
Posts: 162
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:09 am

mxaxai wrote:
Condor is showing all flights operating normally. However, many Condor flights are operated by other airlines, including Thomas Cook Balearics. TC Balearics is supposedly affected by the bankruptcy and has ceased operations; no sign of any impact on Condor so far.



Good to hear they are still operating as normal.
Lufthansa will be readying a chq for them. They won't allow that much loved German brand to flop.

Germany has different (clearly better) laws than we do in the UK. I dont know the exact details I'm sure someone else can update us, but they seem to allow their airlines to continue flying in administration so as to plan for an orderly (very German ) shut down. Air Berlin is an example. Msy be something to do with the Gov willing to supply bridging loans .... which of course if UK GOV did, we wouldn't be in this situation!
Last edited by flyjay123 on Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:09 am

MartijnNL wrote:
ryan78 wrote:
On a side note, Air Transat was due to take on 10 Thomas Cook A321's in Nov/Dec for winter seasonal lease. What happens to those lease agreements now? Is Transat SOL in this case?

What does SOL stand for?


Shit Out of Luck
 
flyjay123
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:16 am

Stickpusher wrote:
Amid all the chaos to holidaymakers now and staff into a less certain future I can't help but wonder if there's some poor soul in particular, that jumped from Primera Air to Monarch, and from there to TCX. I hope not. Surely nobody's life deserves that much chaos over such a short period.

I saw a TCX A321 (YL-LCZ, leased frame) pass over a day or two back and thought to myself, "hang on guys", but there's no business quite like the airlines to make financiers skittish.

Hopefully Condor and Nordic can keep the brand aloft rather as XL did in France (although perhaps not for long in the case of XL).

At a time when air transport in the UK faces some flux, it's no time to come onto the jobs market. I wish everybody well for their futures.


Spare a thought for those that went Ryanair - MON - TCX - Norweigan!
 
StdTank80002
Posts: 41
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:23 am

FCAFLYBOY wrote:
G-MLJL A332 is en-route MCO-MAN landing in 10 minutes as the final ever Thomas Cook Airlines UK flight. Very sad news.

Hopefully someone can catch her final landing at MAN.


I hope someone did. I could see her from the office in Central Manchester but phone camera nowhere near good enough to pick anything up, not that I'm close enough to see too much anyway.
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:24 am

flyjay123 wrote:
Stickpusher wrote:
Amid all the chaos to holidaymakers now and staff into a less certain future I can't help but wonder if there's some poor soul in particular, that jumped from Primera Air to Monarch, and from there to TCX. I hope not. Surely nobody's life deserves that much chaos over such a short period.

I saw a TCX A321 (YL-LCZ, leased frame) pass over a day or two back and thought to myself, "hang on guys", but there's no business quite like the airlines to make financiers skittish.

Hopefully Condor and Nordic can keep the brand aloft rather as XL did in France (although perhaps not for long in the case of XL).

At a time when air transport in the UK faces some flux, it's no time to come onto the jobs market. I wish everybody well for their futures.


Spare a thought for those that went Ryanair - MON - TCX - Norweigan!

I sure DY can get their house in order, I don't think anyone of us would want Norwegian to collapse as well. They are as huge as Thomas Cook Group, thousands of employees and travellers will be inconvenient.
 
marcogr12
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:26 am

I think DAT,Jettime, Wideroe and Atlantic Airways along with DY, Novair may be very busy the next couple of weeks..Meanwhile i sincerely do hope Condor survives..Germany has lost Air Berlin,Germania, Small Planet did a lot of flights too..so let's hope one at least makes it alive out of this mess and that Norwegian doesn't follow suit...
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:32 am

Flight 2643 has put her paws on the runway. TCX is now history :(
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:38 am

On Sky News this morning, the Transport Secretary? said that all UK persons abroad would be repatriated, including those who had not booked a package deal. I don't have a print story to back that up at this time.
Last edited by DIRECTFLT on Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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AlexA340B777
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:39 am

Following Info on German webpage of TC:

https://www.thomascook.de/

„Wir loten derzeit letzte Optionen aus. Sollten diese scheitern, sehen wir uns gezwungen, für die Thomas Cook GmbH, Thomas Cook Touristik GmbH und Bucher Reisen & Öger Tours GmbH und möglicherweise auch weiterer Gesellschaften Insolvenzantrag zu stellen.“

Rough translation: „currently we are checking last options. Should those fail, we are forced to file for insolvency of Thomas Cook GmbH, Thomas Cook Touristik GmbH und Bucher Reisen & Öger Tours GmbH and possibly further businesses.“

So still some hope for the German branch I guess.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:40 am

The UK govt. was not going to bail out and backstop TC for bad mergers and acquisitions that put TC in debt to the tune of over $1B. TC needed $200M profit to just pay down the interest on their debt.
Last edited by DIRECTFLT on Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
StdTank80002
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:42 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
On Sky News this morning, the Transport Secretary? said that all would be taken care of, including those who had not booked a package deal. I Don't have a print story to back that up at this time.


It wouldn't surprise me. Surely once you've paid to repatriate 140,000-150,000 the cost of an extra 10,000 (the number of non package flights I have seen quoted) is not much but removes a lot of those media stories about stranded bits and how the government abandoned them. Even though those are the terms when you book flight only it doesn't mean the stories won't appear!
 
SCQ83
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:43 am

I have gone through AENA to see their figures in 2018 to Spain. Only Thomas Cook (no Condor).

The most affected airports in % would be at this point Reus (10.95% of total PAX in 2018 flew TC), Almería and Tenerife Sur. There is also Lleida Airport which had Thomas Cook charters from the UK and probably is the most affected by far in %. But that airport is managed by Catalonia so it doesn't report to AENA.

In absolute numbers the most affected will be TFS (865k), LPA (805k), PMI (785k) and ACE (499k). The main issue for the Canary Islands is that winter season is high season so they are very unlikely to recover those flights in such a short time frame. And Ryanair is closing their ACE, LPA and TFS bases in January.

Total PAX Total TC UK Total TC Scan Total TC
Reus 10.95% 1,037,576 113655 0 113655
Almería 9.56% 992,043 77221 17594 94815
Tenerife Sur 7.83% 11,042,481 636575 228592 865167
Lanzarote 6.82% 7,327,019 477943 21528 499471
Gran Canaria 5.93% 13,573,242 205572 599566 805138
Fuerteventura 5.29% 6,118,893 300446 23066 323512
Menorca 5.09% 3,442,752 175280 0 175280
Palma de Mallorca 2.70% 29,081,787 431347 354099 785446
Ibiza 1.64% 8,104,316 132751 0 132751
Girona 1.26% 2,019,876 25419 0 25419
Alicante 0.40% 13,981,320 54990 626 55616
 
mxaxai
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:44 am

Short/Medium-Haul Yields per seat (£)
2019: 103
2018: 120
-17 (-14.2 %)
Long-Haul Yields per seat (£)
2019: 281
2018: 317
-36 (-11.4 %)
Unit Cost (p./ASK)
2019: (4.05)
2018: (4.57)
-0.52 (-11.4 %)

Just looked up the financial results of the Thomas Cook Group in 1H 2019. Even their airline branch saw a significant drop in RASM, faster than their CASM could adjust.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:46 am

It's such a shame to wake up to the news this morning that Thomas Cook has gone bust.

My last flight with Thomas Cook was pre-MyTravel merger in 2005 MAN-ACE-MAN, worked by G-JMAA outbound and G-JMAB on the return. Before then, I had numerous flights after Thomas Cook Airlines was born to various Spanish holiday hotspots, as well as a couple of flights with JMC Airways in the period 2000-2001, a return flight with Flying Colours during its final days in February 2000 (the 757's used for these flights had already been painted into JMC colours ready for the merger/name change the following month) and a return trip to Mahon in August 1999 with Caledonian which was worked TriStar's. On the other side of the Thomas Cook bloodline (for want of a better phrase), I had a trip to Montego Bay and back in February 2001 with Airtours which was worked by G-DAJC both ways. I never flew with MyTravel during that era before the merger.

My thoughts are with all the staff at this time, particularly those with the airline, resort reps, retail staff and call centre/back office staff etc. who are not to blame for the company's woes in recent years and I'm sure were dedicated and professional up until the very end. I feel for those who were working the transatlantic flights and I felt really sad when I saw one of the A330's fly over my house inbound from MCO to MAN as I didn't know if the crew or passengers were aware yet that Thomas Cook was no more - it must be a horrible feeling arriving at the destination to find you are out of a job with immediate effect. I also feel for anyone who joined within the last couple of years that are ex-Monarch and/or ex-Primera having to go through the process all over again.
 
LGWGate49
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:45 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:52 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
Flight 2643 has put her paws on the runway. TCX is now history :(


Video here:

https://twitter.com/GarethJBond/status/ ... 6918088704
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:58 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The UK govt. was not going to bail out and backstop TC for bad mergers and acquisitions that put TC in debt to the tune of over $1B. TC needed $200M profit to just pay down the interest on their debt.


It would have also set a precedent and the government would have then come under fire for not stepping in when other high-profile companies such as Monarch, BHS, Comet, Woolworths etc. were on the verge of going under.

flyjay123 wrote:
My Local Thomas Cook travel agency, which had been there since I was a wee child, abruptly closed earlier this year. So they were attempting to get out of expensive leases and close - where possible. Business rates probably didnt help either!

Interestigly enough - the likes of the Flight center and STA travel agency stores appear to be doing well...

I think TC high street stores didn't diversity enough to create the perception they are more than just a TC Holiday shop - and were an all rounder travel agency - which they were when I was a child, before this 'Branding' synergy took hold of the travel business!


Some of the Thomas Cook stores were ex-MyTravel stores such as one in a town near me, so no doubt they tried to rationalise into one store where there was a Thomas Cook store and a MyTravel store within the same town. I'm sure they may still have a few ex-Co-op branches which would have added to their recent challenge of cutting their store network.

I can see where you're coming from about not diversifying the stores. A few doors down from their store in the Trafford Centre is a Virgin Holidays store. Straight away this store entices you in with a free drink from the bar by the front door, they also have samples of VS' PE and Upper seats to try as well as a virtual reality room so people can sample for themselves what they can get. It's one way of keeping stores relevant in an era where there's a modal shift towards doing everything online and being less reliant on 'bricks and mortar'.
Last edited by Boeing74741R on Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:02 am

Super80Fan wrote:
I should have clarified, I'm not saying the company as a whole is/was unstable, I recognize their long history, I'm saying their airline operation is/was unstable. Big difference between working on their travel/hospitality side and working on their airline side.


The airline side of Thomas Cook was profitable (no idea if it was one part such as TCX UK or all of them including Condor). That's why efforts were being made a few months ago to sell it and there were a few interested parties.

There are thousands of workers across the group that have just been made redundant with immediate effect. It's not their fault the group's finances were in a mess for a number of years now and it's not their fault both the current and former senior management team didn't do enough to turn things around. Please show a bit more empathy and hope that you NEVER find yourself in that situation.
Last edited by Boeing74741R on Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
sandyb123
Posts: 987
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:29 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:04 am

This is all very sad news and I hope the staff and associated surviving businesses can move on to the next chapter.

Thomas Cook is a great example of a business that hasn't moved with the times. The combination of a 'Bricks and Mortar' travel agency which seemed to only sell TC package holidays on an in-house airline that seemed to only fly its own customers to mostly European resorts was a difficult model to keep afloat (I know that isn't actually what they did but was the perception of the market).

The bucket and spade package holiday is has a dwindling audience and is dominated by aggressive discounters like Jet2 and premium sub-brands like TUI's Sensatori. Easyjets strategy of cheap flight first and secondary up-sell has worked well for them and the consumer understands they are more a means to destination rather than a lock stock end-to-end 'holiday' provider. Throw in unrest in places like Egypt (a major package destination until a few years ago) and it's a perfect storm or cards going against you.

In addition to the traditional package, many people now book flights / hotels / activities separately through the aggregators. It's aspirational to have more choice and allows the consumer to make the choice on where they stay, even though it isn't necessarily better or cheaper the perception of 'choice' is strong.

All inclusive resorts are also, in my opinion poor value for money and poor quality. My family won't take a package holiday again after a fairly bad package experience on TUI 6 years ago and I can't think of any of my friends or extended family who would book this way. This type of consumer (me) behaviour doesn't help TC who failed to adapt quickly enough and even though they did offer the components separately it was still touted and perceived as a package operator.

I have been a director in a couple of small UK and international tourism agencies and it is a very unforgiving and stressful market which will only become harder with things like APD, market trends like the above and dare I mention Brexit.

Sandyb123
 
BOAC1966
Posts: 424
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:55 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:15 am

What flight prefix will rescue flights use under Operation Matterhorn? will it be a special one or the aircraft “ owners” normal one?
 
ScottishDavie
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Airlines News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:16 am

Boeing74741R wrote:

There are thousands of workers across the group that have just been made redundant with immediate effect. It's not their fault the group's finances were in a mess for a number of years now and it's not their fault both the current and former senior management team didn't do enough to turn things around.


Absolutely, and the way the so-called "senior management" lined their own pockets is disgraceful. I hope the liquidators are able to reclaim at least some of these obscene "bonuses".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/09/22/thomas-cook-bosses-received-20m-bonuses-last-5-years-company/
 
flyjay123
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:07 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:21 am

Boeing74741R wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
The UK govt. was not going to bail out and backstop TC for bad mergers and acquisitions that put TC in debt to the tune of over $1B. TC needed $200M profit to just pay down the interest on their debt.



The GOV couldn't bail out TC... coz they know whats around the corner with Norwegian!

It genuinely pains me and I take NO pleasure saying that at such a sensitive time.
 
225623
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:54 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:31 am

Interesting detail from Condor: https://www.condor.com/de/flug-vorberei ... dungen.jsp
Alle Condor Flüge finden planmäßig statt +++ Wichtiger Hinweis für Thomas Cook Gäste

Hinweis für Gäste, die eine Reise mit Thomas Cook, Neckermann, Oeger Tours, Air Marin und Bucher Reisen gebucht haben:

Condor wurde von Ihrem Reiseveranstalter informiert, dass eine Gewährleistung zur Durchführung Ihrer Reise heute und morgen nicht gegeben ist. Wir dürfen Sie daher für Ihren Flug nicht annehmen, was uns außerordentlich leid tut.


The flights still go, but passengers who booked with one of the Thomas Cook branches are not accepted.

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