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MareBorealis
Posts: 150
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:19 am

Jetty wrote:
Cafe5150 wrote:
And who's flying the remaining 450,000 affected people from other countries?

That’s up to the originating countries, although it’s a British company the British take no responsibility for non-British customers whatsoever.


In many European countries those who buy package holidays are protected by law, the tour operators must have a insolvency insurance.
 
Andy33
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:04 am

bennett123 wrote:
Just been looking at airfleets, who are still showing Thomas Cook as active.

I assume that the leased A320/A321 will go back to the owners once the repatriation flights end, (they had quite a few on LY or YL registers). Those leased from banks etc Will presumably be parked for a bit longer.

Hopefully most will be active soon, possibly with ex Thomas Cook crews.

I think you're misunderstanding the data slightly. Being a highly seasonal business, TCX made extensive use of wetleased planes, these are the ones with non-G reigstrations, as far as A320s and A321s are concerned. The pilots belong to the owning airline, mostly SmartLynx and Avion Express, most or all of the cabin crew were Thomas Cook. Quite a few of these planes are in Thomas Cook livery. These are still flying, mostly on the services they have been working all summer, but using Titan Airways (XT) flight numbers instead of MT. I understand that the cabin crew for these aircraft have been re-employed by Titan on short term contracts.
These planes would have returned to their owning airlines in any case over the next few weeks as the summer tourist season winds down, TCX was able to cover all its winter shorthaul operation with its own fleet, and lease out 12 or so planes to airlines in Canada in winter as well..
Some of the G-registered A330s belong to Air Tanker, again they were wetleased to Thomas Cook on a similar arrangement, but would have remained there all winter had the bankruptcy not happened.
 
Etheereal
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:20 am

TC bankrupcy means B6 LHR slots, right? :stirthepot:
 
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OA260
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:23 am

behramjee wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Seemingly thomas Cook hasn't paid some hotels at all this year - theres going to be a lot of economic suffering in lots of countries . such a disgrace


I find this hard to believe that the hotels themselves would allow TC 9 months worth of credit so if this is indeed the case then the hotels are more to blame for dragging it too long !


Agree to an extent but if you are a smaller hotel who relied upon TC filling it and at the end of the season you finally got paid over the years then I can somewhat understand it but the OP has not provided a source its purely rumor and opinion so it may or may not be true and other factors may be involved.
 
speedbird217
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:06 am

Etheereal wrote:
TC bankrupcy means B6 LHR slots, right? :stirthepot:


Considering that Thomas Cook didn’t have a single flight into LHR, no.
 
Sunbao
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:11 am

Good to see Thomas Cook Airlines scandinavia back in the air This morning
 
bralo20
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:46 am

MareBorealis wrote:
In many European countries those who buy package holidays are protected by law, the tour operators must have a insolvency insurance.


Indeed, but it's (unfortunately) not a European rule, it kinda differs from country to country. Here in Belgium it's also mandatory but apparently only for complete packages.

Seems that Thomas Cook Belgium (the touroperator, not the airline since that was dissolved about 2 years back) has also troubles which is kinda remarkable when you consult their public accounts from the past years. I guess that every vendor was paid through Thomas Cook Group in the UK rather than being paid by the different branches directly. Thomas Cook Belgium (both touroperator and airline) paid over 500 million EUR's in cumulated profits in 2015/2016 to the shareholders (Thomas Cook). Even last year the touroperator generated a +3 million EUR profit and even after the pay out previously they still have a bit over 56 million EUR in unused cumulated profits in their books. This lets me to believe that TC UK paid all the vendors and the branches paid TC UK. I could be wrong but currently I see absolutely no reason for Thomas Cook Belgium to go bankrupt or even stop doing business since it's a remarkable healthy company (which isn't actually not a big of a surprise, the market in Belgium has only 2 big players, TUI and Thomas Cook. They don't have any significant competition at all on our home market).

Edit: And another Belgian branch, Thomas Cook Financial Services NV has generated a 10 million EUR profit last financial year and is sitting on 145 million EUR in cumulated profits.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:01 am

danipawa wrote:
and what about Germany(Thomas cook Aviation) and Spain (Baelearis) units ? are they stil flying too ?

So far according to https://www.aerotelegraph.com/en/what-h ... homas-cook, both are unscathed at the moment. So is Scandinavian unit and Condor.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
uta999
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:11 am

Hi Fly A380 from LGW due in Enfidha Tunisia in the next hour.

9H-MIP as HFM880P
Your computer just got better
 
oschkosch
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:37 am

bralo20 wrote:

Edit: And another Belgian branch, Thomas Cook Financial Services NV has generated a 10 million EUR profit last financial year and is sitting on 145 million EUR in cumulated profits.


Sorry, hard to believe this, even though in might be true. If they have that cash, why wasn't it transferred under profit sharing agreements to the main shareholder i.e. TC UK?

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BrianDromey
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:43 am

Looks like Condor [7 A320, 4 A321, 15 753, 16 763] , 1 A332 operated by Air Tanker
Thomas Cook Aviation [8 A321](wikipedia suggests this is a remnant of Air Berlin?)
Thomas Cook Balearics [6 A320]
Thomas Cook Scandinavia [8 A321, 2 A322, 3 A333], one A332 parked at JFK, was wet-leased to TCX

The grounded fleet is 27 A321 and 7 A330-200s at TCX, plus that Scandinavian A330 at JFK. I imagine that AirTransat will still try to get the 7 seasonal A321s this winter. There are probably plans in place to have them brought onto the Canadian register and have them brought to Air Transat standard and branding. In the short term that leaves ~20 A321s to find homes.

Of more interest will be the LGW slots and to a lesser extent the slots at MAN. Im sure Jet2 and TUI will be looking into larger flying programmes for next summer and picking up some of TCX's third-party charter business. IT may be that between the Air Transat deals and the third-part flying, along with short-term MAX cover there is a viable business for whatever remains of the TCX operation.

At LGW there are around 18 daily summer slot pairs and 9 daily pairs in winter. Although that is roughly similar to Monarch, ATW reports they are at irregular times and the summer/winter split also makes them less attractive. As a reminder IAG paid £50 million for Monarchs slots and "Vueling" paid 4.5 million for flyBe's slots (4 daily slots) in January. From the creditors point of view selling these offers some of the best hope of recovering money. I'm sure IAG will be interested in these, it would be a big task for Virgin to take more than a few of these. Even if they took the lot, most of them are unsuitable for transatlantic operations. A split between easyJet and Virgin might work well, unless there is hope of a Pheonix from the ashes of TCX.
 
flyjay123
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:56 am

B747forever wrote:
cynlb wrote:


Heartbreaking to watch that :(

Anyone wishing another airline to go bust should watch this. Makes you realize that there are actually so many people that depend on these airlines. That is why I never understand all the hatred towards Norwegian and other airlines.


It's mostly not hatred but financial facts and reality !

I for one truely believe they are on borrowed time. The TC collapse is unlikely to bolster their bussiness.

That said, I love their fares, I love their professional crews, I love how they have disruped the big player's and bought fares down for the travelling public. .... and I absolutly want it to continue. But a cat only has so many lifes - and this beast has been through 9 already ....
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:06 am

Some of the lucky pax flying European short haul on an MH A380.

https://flic.kr/p/2hjZcdF
 
xijiayu
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:11 am

CarbonFibre wrote:
Some of the lucky pax flying European short haul on an MH A380.

https://flic.kr/p/2hjZcdF


I wonder how they are going to decide who are sitting in First and Business?
 
NG263
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:18 am

Wonder what is going on in Palma at the moment. Several TC Scandinavia aircraft departed to Palma this morning but the return flights are shown as cancelled on FR24. Impounded? Includes 3 A321's: OY-TCF, -E &-I as well as 2 A333's: OY-VKG &-I. Anybody knows what's going on?
 
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Finn350
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:24 am

NG263 wrote:
Wonder what is going on in Palma at the moment. Several TC Scandinavia aircraft departed to Palma this morning but the return flights are shown as cancelled on FR24. Impounded? Includes 3 A321's: OY-TCF, -E &-I as well as 2 A333's: OY-VKG &-I. Anybody knows what's going on?


FR24 shows the status of TC Scandinavia flights incorrectly. There was a morning HEL-TFS flight that was flown but shown as cancelled by FR24.
 
Sunbao
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:31 am

Yeah fr24 had cancelled All their flights and has not yet set Them back to normal status.
 
NG263
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:21 am

Finn350 wrote:
NG263 wrote:
Wonder what is going on in Palma at the moment. Several TC Scandinavia aircraft departed to Palma this morning but the return flights are shown as cancelled on FR24. Impounded? Includes 3 A321's: OY-TCF, -E &-I as well as 2 A333's: OY-VKG &-I. Anybody knows what's going on?


FR24 shows the status of TC Scandinavia flights incorrectly. There was a morning HEL-TFS flight that was flown but shown as cancelled by FR24.



Thats good to know, thank you. But I'm still surprised that non of the flights has departed for their return leg so far. Some of them have been sitting on the ground in PMI now for a few hours already...
 
Sunbao
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:33 am

NG263 wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
NG263 wrote:
Wonder what is going on in Palma at the moment. Several TC Scandinavia aircraft departed to Palma this morning but the return flights are shown as cancelled on FR24. Impounded? Includes 3 A321's: OY-TCF, -E &-I as well as 2 A333's: OY-VKG &-I. Anybody knows what's going on?


FR24 shows the status of TC Scandinavia flights incorrectly. There was a morning HEL-TFS flight that was flown but shown as cancelled by FR24.



Thats good to know, thank you. But I'm still surprised that non of the flights has departed for their return leg so far. Some of them have been sitting on the ground in PMI now for a few hours already...



Yeah looks very Odd mabye they try to push Them to Pay other part of Thomas Cooks bill
 
Bongodog49
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:01 pm

azz767 wrote:
There are a lot of aircraft operating under Titan callsigns in the repatriation operation
Privilege
Nouvelair
Avion
Smartlynx
GetJet
DAT
And more

Is this the CAA passing the hassle of organising the majority of the repatriation to Titan and paying them to do so? Why couldn’t they just go to the airlines themselves? Titan must be getting a good deal out of it going through that much hassle


Titan operate daily in the provision of aircraft to cover holes in schedules, meanwhile this is only the 2nd CAA repatriation effort in many years. far better to put it into the hands of people with the experience.
 
Andy33
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:09 pm

Ironically, before 2017 the CAA's go-to airline for organising rescue flights when airlines went under was Monarch. Now Titan has the role.
Just a point - while Avion Express and SmartLynx are indeed operating under Titan's XT flight numbers, they were Thomas Cook's short haul wet-lease contractors, and flew for them under MT codes. The number portion of the code hasn't changed, just the letters, and by and large these two airlines are still flying the same schedule they did for Thomas Cook
 
Bongodog49
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:11 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
Bongodog49 wrote:
The exchange rate today is more or less exactly the same as it was in January 2017


Richard Branson, founder of the Virgin Group, said in a blog post that the steep drop in the value of the pound following the 2016 Brexit referendum had piled the pressure on the heavily indebted and "struggling" Thomas Cook.
"All of the travel industry costs are in dollars — for example fuel maintenance and airplane leasing. With the weaker pound, the cost of everything has skyrocketed. For Thomas Cook, this has proved terminal," Branson said.


Richard Branson knows a lot about airlines losing money, VS has been doing it for years !!

The fact that Thomas Cook UK had 156,000 clients abroad on holiday at the time of the collapse suggests that they weren't short of clients, what they were short of however was clients who were paying more for their holiday than it cost Thomas Cook to provide it.

Thomas Cook UK had made a succession of awful business decisions, purchasing Mytravel, then the Coop travel agencies, persisting in trying to sell basic holidays from high street shops. They were burdened by around £1.6bn of debt, and were looking for their 3rd refinancing. They just couldn't compete against the likes of Tui and Jet2 who haven't got the same high cost structure and debt mountain.

The big exchange rate hit happened in May 2016 immediately after the brexit vote, this would have shown up in their accounts two years ago, not now.

It is also noticeable from the listings of where passengers are needing to be repatriated from that Thomas Cook had around 25% of passengers in Turkey, thats a very low yield destination.
 
Someone83
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:29 pm

NG263 wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
NG263 wrote:
Wonder what is going on in Palma at the moment. Several TC Scandinavia aircraft departed to Palma this morning but the return flights are shown as cancelled on FR24. Impounded? Includes 3 A321's: OY-TCF, -E &-I as well as 2 A333's: OY-VKG &-I. Anybody knows what's going on?


FR24 shows the status of TC Scandinavia flights incorrectly. There was a morning HEL-TFS flight that was flown but shown as cancelled by FR24.



Thats good to know, thank you. But I'm still surprised that non of the flights has departed for their return leg so far. Some of them have been sitting on the ground in PMI now for a few hours already...


Rumour was that it was some issues getting refueled. But is now sorted and aircraft is returning back to Scandinavia now
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:33 pm

Bongodog49 wrote:
The fact that Thomas Cook UK had 156,000 clients abroad on holiday at the time of the collapse suggests that they weren't short of clients, what they were short of however was clients who were paying more for their holiday than it cost Thomas Cook to provide it


Agreed, doubtful TCG plc got a premium to pay for interest payments. According to Fankhauser they needed to sell 3 Million holidays just to cover annual debt obligations.
 
Sunbao
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:24 pm

Someone83 wrote:
NG263 wrote:
Finn350 wrote:

FR24 shows the status of TC Scandinavia flights incorrectly. There was a morning HEL-TFS flight that was flown but shown as cancelled by FR24.



Thats good to know, thank you. But I'm still surprised that non of the flights has departed for their return leg so far. Some of them have been sitting on the ground in PMI now for a few hours already...


Rumour was that it was some issues getting refueled. But is now sorted and aircraft is returning back to Scandinavia now



Hehe some kind of issue regarding payment
 
 
Remy89
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:47 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
Some of the lucky pax flying European short haul on an MH A380.

https://flic.kr/p/2hjZcdF


Does anyone know where this was headed? I work at Gatwick and would have loved to spot it out the window from my desk.
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:07 pm

Remy89 wrote:
Does anyone know where this was headed? I work at Gatwick and would have loved to spot it out the window from my desk.



Manchester.
 
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OA260
Posts: 24172
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:09 pm

gunnerman wrote:



Maybe they should try help to get them home first !


Image
 
Remy89
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:33 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
Remy89 wrote:
Does anyone know where this was headed? I work at Gatwick and would have loved to spot it out the window from my desk.



Manchester.


Cheers
 
willd
Posts: 144
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:07 pm

Bongodog49 wrote:

The big exchange rate hit happened in May 2016 immediately after the brexit vote, this would have shown up in their accounts two years ago, not now.



But what you don’t know is how TCX hedged their fuel and other associated costs against the exchange rate. It could well have been that they forward purchased dollars at a fixed rate for say 24 months before the drop off. When the fixed rate expired TCX could have then found they couldn’t get a similar fixed rate- not surprising given how the pound has tumbled against the dollar in the last year- and so were faced with mounting costs in dollars and their GBP not getting enough dollars.

Huge multi national businesses don’t just give HSBC a call and ask to transfer money into foreign currency the day before. They will be entering into complex FX hedging products in order to mitigate against the currency fluctuations. That means any reaction to exchange rate changes can be delayed until the FX hedging product expires. Those types of products tend to have a 2-3 year term.
 
ShamrockBoi330
Posts: 339
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:18 pm

Remy89 wrote:
CarbonFibre wrote:
Some of the lucky pax flying European short haul on an MH A380.

https://flic.kr/p/2hjZcdF


Does anyone know where this was headed? I work at Gatwick and would have loved to spot it out the window from my desk.


The HiFly a380 is doing repatriation flights to LGW
 
Sunbao
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:35 pm

More problems for Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia, OY-TCE, OY-TCF and OY-TCI is grounded atm, as there are problems with the leasing deals.

Edit: oh well not OY-TCF anymore, its airborne again it seems.
 
oschkosch
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Condor is saved. Posted it in the other thread but might be of interest here too. Please note this is breaking news as of now.


A so called bridge loan of 380 Million Euro has been approved by German government.... Reported by reuters and DPA.

https://m.tagesspiegel.de/wirtschaft/38 ... 51988.html

As far as I can tell, this is only for Condor DE, not for Thomas Cook Deutschland GmbH, that legal entity has separately applied for a bridge loan. And btw those 380 Million are taxpayers Eurodollars.



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InThrustWeTrust
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:48 pm

Its exiting to see who will overtake Thomas Cook Scandinavia? Media reports that a couple possible byers are out there. Intressting to see what happen to the airline? It will probably change name..
 
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AlexA340B777
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:53 pm

What are the chances then for TC Germany GmbH getting the bridge loan of the German government in addition?

Is the German branch on its own potentially profitable, which would be a good chance for the loan to be approved as well?
6 continents, 85 countries, 746 flights, 90 airlines, 37 aircraft types
 
Sunbao
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:07 pm

InThrustWeTrust wrote:
Its exiting to see who will overtake Thomas Cook Scandinavia? Media reports that a couple possible byers are out there. Intressting to see what happen to the airline? It will probably change name..


Well the buyer will need to take over Thomas Cook Northern Europe not just the airline. an airline without customer is bad.
But yes it will surely shift name.

Bud probally Triton partners.
 
InThrustWeTrust
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:14 pm

The Scandinavian part of Thomas Cook seems to be profitable so maybe the administration will keep it..
 
InThrustWeTrust
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:18 pm

Sunbao wrote:
InThrustWeTrust wrote:
Its exiting to see who will overtake Thomas Cook Scandinavia? Media reports that a couple possible byers are out there. Intressting to see what happen to the airline? It will probably change name..


Well the buyer will need to take over Thomas Cook Northern Europe not just the airline. an airline without customer is bad.
But yes it will surely shift name.

Bud probally Triton partners.

Yes you right, Ving Tjäreborg, Spies Globtrotter and the airline
 
Strato2
Posts: 535
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:25 pm

InThrustWeTrust wrote:
The Scandinavian part of Thomas Cook seems to be profitable so maybe the administration will keep it..


No it will be sold ofcourse and they try to get as much money as possible. Too bad Thomas Cook rejected an offer from Triton to buy in the spring and now the price undoubtedly will be lower.
 
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Finn350
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:25 pm

InThrustWeTrust wrote:
The Scandinavian part of Thomas Cook seems to be profitable so maybe the administration will keep it..


Think about damage to the Scandinavian brands already generated by the TC group collapse. Most people probably not willing to book their holidays on these brands because of the uncertainty. I think the Scandinavian operations will be sold quickly to detach them from the TC group collapse.
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:51 pm

AlexA340B777 wrote:
What are the chances then for TC Germany GmbH getting the bridge loan of the German government in addition?


I'd say very likely. Just last week tax payers received the last payment (including interest) of the bridge loan to Airberlin, who as we all know didn't make it.
 
xxD328xx
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:27 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
AlexA340B777 wrote:
What are the chances then for TC Germany GmbH getting the bridge loan of the German government in addition?


I'd say very likely. Just last week tax payers received the last payment (including interest) of the bridge loan to Airberlin, who as we all know didn't make it.


Air Berlin payed back the 150 million Euro loan. 27 million Euro in interest is still pending.

https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/air-berlin-bundeskredit-101.html
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:09 pm

xxD328xx wrote:
Air Berlin payed back the 150 million Euro loan. 27 million Euro in interest is still pending


Thank you.

Don't find the article anymore, thought I read it on http://www.n-tv.de and it also mentioned the 9% interest rate.
 
Summa767
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:37 pm

Bongodog49 wrote:
The big exchange rate hit happened in May 2016 immediately after the brexit vote, this would have shown up in their accounts two years ago, not now.
.


The big exchange happened in June 23rd 2016. The British Pound has not recovered since. In fact it remains levels not seen since decades bs the US$.

Do you happen to know which currency fuel is valued in? But costs of everything from airport fees, mainly in Europe and the US would have gone up when transcribed to the poor Pound Sterling. Yet its revenues continued to be in the devalued British Pounds, which due to weak demand, consumers were not up to being passed the higher costs.

So currency was not just a one time hit, but it’s been a disadvantage ever since the big slump in Referendum day (that came on top of a gradual side in the run up to it as markets priced the risk of the outcome that would mean worse prospects for the UK.
Why is EasyJet not affected as much? It is to some extent as that is reflected in its stock value, but it obviously not as dependent on the UK market as it has bases in several countries.
These problems on a company with a big structure was the final straw.
 
scouseflyer
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:47 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
Remy89 wrote:
Does anyone know where this was headed? I work at Gatwick and would have loved to spot it out the window from my desk.



Manchester.


Just happenned to pass the end of the runway and was buzzed by it this afternoon - always amazed that the A380 looks quite small when it's in the air!
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:50 pm

With the other units of Thomas Cook flying...what is keeping the UK unit grounded? Any possibility that the owned A332s at MT could move to the Danish unit?
 
Elshad
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:10 am

What was the reason for Thomas Cook (Airlines) having so many subsidiaries like Scandinavia, Balearics, Belgium etc.? I understand the need for Condor to be separate as it has its own history but the rest seem like paper exercises / accounting tricks. Why didn’t they merge them?
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:55 am

Elshad wrote:
What was the reason for Thomas Cook (Airlines) having so many subsidiaries like Scandinavia, Balearics, Belgium etc.? I understand the need for Condor to be separate as it has its own history but the rest seem like paper exercises / accounting tricks. Why didn’t they merge them?

Spies, Ving, Tjaereborg are very strong brands in Scandinavia, at least as strong as Condor in Germany, with their own history going back to the 50'es.

They were bought into TC one by one, and it would have been stupid to rename them. Thomas Cook or Condor is in Scandinavia just random mostly unknown words written on some airliners which serve Spies, Ving and Tjaereborg customers.

Bought into TC. Yeah, or bought for own money. Now they say on TV news that for instance the Spies subsidiary has lent out roughly $75m to TC Holding - to keep TC running just a little longer. If that money, or most of that money, is lost (which is likely the case), then Spies' bottom line is today some $50m into the red. That is serious money for such a small company, even if they currently operate profitably.

Where is that debt? Unpaid hotels, fuel, airport fees? Loans in Scandinavian banks? Or what? Probably all of that and much more. Banks keep them floating right now. For how long? Nobody will buy a company with such debt. There is a real risk that TC Holding will pull at least part of the healthy subsidiaries down in the ditch - like a domino effect.
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juliuswong
Posts: 2021
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:45 am

Elshad wrote:
What was the reason for Thomas Cook (Airlines) having so many subsidiaries like Scandinavia, Balearics, Belgium etc.? I understand the need for Condor to be separate as it has its own history but the rest seem like paper exercises / accounting tricks. Why didn’t they merge them?

I shared this in another thread, sharing here again for everyone: https://www.aerotelegraph.com/en/what-h ... homas-cook

The fleet breakdown at the time of collapse: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-thoma ... KKBN1W70SO
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