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Andy33
Posts: 2565
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:18 am

Elshad wrote:
What was the reason for Thomas Cook (Airlines) having so many subsidiaries like Scandinavia, Balearics, Belgium etc.? I understand the need for Condor to be separate as it has its own history but the rest seem like paper exercises / accounting tricks. Why didn’t they merge them?

One very strong reason, if we're solely talking about the airlines and not the package holiday brands that supplied most of the airline passengers, is traffic rights. As long as you only want to take people to destinations within the European Common Aviation Area, or to countries that have openskies agreements with the EU, then the entire European operation could be run by one airline. As soon as you add countries outside that list, you're dependent on the terms of the bilateral air service agreements between the countries at each end of the journey. Many of these still specify that the flight must be operated by airlines registered in one of the two countries involved. Now all the bilaterals involving any of the Scandanavian countries have always permitted airlines and aircraft from Norway, Sweden and Denmark to be considered as registered in all of them, this was negotiated decades ago because of the way SAS is structured.
Thomas Cook Belgium stopped flying 2 years ago, and operations were sold to Brussels Airlines, which of course already had the necessary nationality for bilaterals.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1384
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:28 am

prebennorholm wrote:
Elshad wrote:
What was the reason for Thomas Cook (Airlines) having so many subsidiaries like Scandinavia, Balearics, Belgium etc.? I understand the need for Condor to be separate as it has its own history but the rest seem like paper exercises / accounting tricks. Why didn’t they merge them?

Spies, Ving, Tjaereborg are very strong brands in Scandinavia, at least as strong as Condor in Germany, with their own history going back to the 50'es.

They were bought into TC one by one, and it would have been stupid to rename them. Thomas Cook or Condor is in Scandinavia just random mostly unknown words written on some airliners which serve Spies, Ving and Tjaereborg customers.

Bought into TC. Yeah, or bought for own money. Now they say on TV news that for instance the Spies subsidiary has lent out roughly $75m to TC Holding - to keep TC running just a little longer. If that money, or most of that money, is lost (which is likely the case), then Spies' bottom line is today some $50m into the red. That is serious money for such a small company, even if they currently operate profitably.

Where is that debt? Unpaid hotels, fuel, airport fees? Loans in Scandinavian banks? Or what? Probably all of that and much more. Banks keep them floating right now. For how long? Nobody will buy a company with such debt. There is a real risk that TC Holding will pull at least part of the healthy subsidiaries down in the ditch - like a domino effect.


To be honest, I see it as a race against time now to find a buyer for Condor and TC Scandinavia. I can't see them carrying on for much longer in their current state with a defunct parent company unless a new potential suitor comes forward, so although it's good both airlines are flying at the moment, it's premature to be celebrating.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
With the other units of Thomas Cook flying...what is keeping the UK unit grounded? Any possibility that the owned A332s at MT could move to the Danish unit?


Because if the parent company becomes insolvent, the CAA revokes their licence. The regulations in the UK do not allow for an insolvent airline to carry on even if it's just for a temporary period.
 
Sunbao
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:27 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:07 am

Well Thomas Cook northern europe should be sellable. But as such as long as People Buy from Them they can run for a long periode waiting for the right sale to be made. Spies ceo talk about a sales process lastning up to a couple of months. Had the operation standed still it would have been a matter og days now its months
 
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OA260
Posts: 24282
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:28 am

Jet2 has added 50 extra flights to the Canary Islands up to March 2020.

Article only in Spanish

Jet2 añadirá 50 vuelos extra en Canarias tras el cierre de Thomas Cook

En concreto, las nuevas 161.782 plazas se reparten en 82.646 para Tenerife, 62.038 en Lanzarote, 13.696 en Fuerteventura y 3.402 para Las Palmas de Gran Canaria.


www.hosteltur.com/131508_jet2-anadira-5 ... -cook.html
 
MikeyPHX
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:21 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:57 pm

Neckermann, one of Poland’s biggest travel agencies, Thomas Cook owned, officially went out of business today. They are owned by the German branch of Thomas Cook (not Condor, the one under the Thomas Cook name) and the statement says the company was in good condition but had to stop trading due to problems in the UK and Germany. So I guess Thomas Cook GmbH will not get saved or at least not all of it. The Polish travel agency was one of the biggest in the country, but they used other charter airlines, so it’s mainly problems in hotels (3600 people abroad, 14000 trips sold for further dates) so no repatriation effort necessary.

https://www.neckermann.pl/
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1136
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:14 pm

Thomas Cook GmbH, the German subsidiary of Thomas Cook, also filed for insolvency on Wednesday (today). The company said it was forced to take the step to free itself from financial entanglements and liabilities after its parent company filed for insolvency on Monday.

Thomas Cook GmbH said it would restructure the business and run it independently. “Of course we would have liked to avoid this legal step,” said the chief executive, Stefanie Berk. “But sadly no short-term solution could be reached in our negotiations.”

Its operations include the tour groups Thomas Cook GmbH, Thomas Cook Touristik GmbH and Bucher Reisen & Öger Tours GmbH and others.
 
jomur
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:41 pm

OA260 wrote:
Jet2 has added 50 extra flights to the Canary Islands up to March 2020.

Article only in Spanish

Jet2 añadirá 50 vuelos extra en Canarias tras el cierre de Thomas Cook

En concreto, las nuevas 161.782 plazas se reparten en 82.646 para Tenerife, 62.038 en Lanzarote, 13.696 en Fuerteventura y 3.402 para Las Palmas de Gran Canaria.


http://www.hosteltur.com/131508_jet2-an ... -cook.html



And not only to the Canary Island either. Extra flights to Turkey and mainland Spain and Ibiza amongst others
 
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AlexA340B777
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:37 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:56 pm

gunnerman wrote:
Thomas Cook GmbH, the German subsidiary of Thomas Cook, also filed for insolvency on Wednesday (today). The company said it was forced to take the step to free itself from financial entanglements and liabilities after its parent company filed for insolvency on Monday.

Thomas Cook GmbH said it would restructure the business and run it independently. “Of course we would have liked to avoid this legal step,” said the chief executive, Stefanie Berk. “But sadly no short-term solution could be reached in our negotiations.”

Its operations include the tour groups Thomas Cook GmbH, Thomas Cook Touristik GmbH and Bucher Reisen & Öger Tours GmbH and others.


Until now no clear statement from TC about future bookings... cancelled, or not?
I cannot find that info on the web.

Not a nice situation for all those people who have booked, uncertainty remains. I would rather prefer it the way TC Britain communicated to their customers... they said something like all business has ceased and all flight and holiday bookings are cancelled... at least it is very clear then how to proceed and that the flights and holidays are for sure not happening anymore.

Waiting continues what will happen to my December holidays...
6 continents, 85 countries, 746 flights, 90 airlines, 37 aircraft types
 
spud757
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:20 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:03 pm

jomur wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Jet2 has added 50 extra flights to the Canary Islands up to March 2020.

Article only in Spanish

Jet2 añadirá 50 vuelos extra en Canarias tras el cierre de Thomas Cook

En concreto, las nuevas 161.782 plazas se reparten en 82.646 para Tenerife, 62.038 en Lanzarote, 13.696 en Fuerteventura y 3.402 para Las Palmas de Gran Canaria.


http://www.hosteltur.com/131508_jet2-an ... -cook.html



And not only to the Canary Island either. Extra flights to Turkey and mainland Spain and Ibiza amongst others


Unless they wet lease another operating airline, where will Jet2 (LS) get the extra Boeing aircraft from to meet the additional Turkey, mainland Spain, Balearic & Canary Isles capacity being offered?

Will LS go for some of MT’s slots, including a new U.K. base at LGW?
 
eagles94
Posts: 130
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:35 pm

spud757 wrote:
Will LS go for some of MT’s slots, including a new U.K. base at LGW?


It’s a safe bet that Jet2 won’t do that.
They always have and always will expand very organically, never any bases where they rush and jump in at the first opportunity. Slow and steady is seemingly winning the race.
 
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Channex757
Posts: 2394
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:42 pm

spud757 wrote:
jomur wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Jet2 has added 50 extra flights to the Canary Islands up to March 2020.

Article only in Spanish

Jet2 añadirá 50 vuelos extra en Canarias tras el cierre de Thomas Cook

En concreto, las nuevas 161.782 plazas se reparten en 82.646 para Tenerife, 62.038 en Lanzarote, 13.696 en Fuerteventura y 3.402 para Las Palmas de Gran Canaria.


http://www.hosteltur.com/131508_jet2-an ... -cook.html



And not only to the Canary Island either. Extra flights to Turkey and mainland Spain and Ibiza amongst others


Unless they wet lease another operating airline, where will Jet2 (LS) get the extra Boeing aircraft from to meet the additional Turkey, mainland Spain, Balearic & Canary Isles capacity being offered?

Will LS go for some of MT’s slots, including a new U.K. base at LGW?


Jet2 have cancelled the disposal of 3 757-200 aircraft due to go this winter season. G-LSAG/H/I have been reprieved for now.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2565
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:46 pm

spud757 wrote:
jomur wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Jet2 has added 50 extra flights to the Canary Islands up to March 2020.

Article only in Spanish

Jet2 añadirá 50 vuelos extra en Canarias tras el cierre de Thomas Cook

En concreto, las nuevas 161.782 plazas se reparten en 82.646 para Tenerife, 62.038 en Lanzarote, 13.696 en Fuerteventura y 3.402 para Las Palmas de Gran Canaria.


http://www.hosteltur.com/131508_jet2-an ... -cook.html



And not only to the Canary Island either. Extra flights to Turkey and mainland Spain and Ibiza amongst others


Unless they wet lease another operating airline, where will Jet2 (LS) get the extra Boeing aircraft from to meet the additional Turkey, mainland Spain, Balearic & Canary Isles capacity being offered?

Will LS go for some of MT’s slots, including a new U.K. base at LGW?

Nothing whatever to stop them wet-leasing from Avion Express and SmartLynx who have been supplying planes with pilots every summer to Thomas Cook for several years now, and will need a new customer in 2020. TCX had as many as 11 planes from these two this year, and they're now a mainstay of the repatriation flights, using XT (Titan) flight numbers.
 
InThrustWeTrust
Posts: 40
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:11 pm

Problems today for Ving, Three TCAS A330 on the gound in CPH because lessors needs garanties from Ving. TCAS are forbidden to land in Antalya and other problems as well. Its not good to be connected with Thomas Cook today
 
Sunbao
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:27 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:22 pm

InThrustWeTrust wrote:
Problems today for Ving, Three TCAS A330 on the gound in CPH because lessors needs garanties from Ving. TCAS are forbidden to land in Antalya and other problems as well. Its not good to be connected with Thomas Cook today


Why Come telling bullshit?

Not a single 330 on ground in cph two of Them is flying home from gran canaria atm to Oslo and Stockholm.


But sure they need to convince a lot of People that they Are not bk and Are paying.

Oy-tce that was stranded in Palma due to problems With the lease is finally cleared and ready to join fleet again. So amt only one 321 not cleared plus the 330 in New York
Last edited by Sunbao on Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Cafe5150
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:58 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:25 pm

InThrustWeTrust wrote:
Problems today for Ving, Three TCAS A330 on the gound in CPH because lessors needs garanties from Ving. TCAS are forbidden to land in Antalya and other problems as well. Its not good to be connected with Thomas Cook today


TCAS? What's that abbreviation? ( Not a full noob lol but not sure of some terms, ie LS - Jet2 and MT - Thomas Cook)
 
Sunbao
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:27 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:27 pm

Thomas cook Airlines scandinavia/vkg/viking
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1136
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Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:31 pm

AlexA340B777 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
Thomas Cook GmbH, the German subsidiary of Thomas Cook, also filed for insolvency on Wednesday (today). The company said it was forced to take the step to free itself from financial entanglements and liabilities after its parent company filed for insolvency on Monday.

Thomas Cook GmbH said it would restructure the business and run it independently. “Of course we would have liked to avoid this legal step,” said the chief executive, Stefanie Berk. “But sadly no short-term solution could be reached in our negotiations.”

Its operations include the tour groups Thomas Cook GmbH, Thomas Cook Touristik GmbH and Bucher Reisen & Öger Tours GmbH and others.


Until now no clear statement from TC about future bookings... cancelled, or not?
I cannot find that info on the web.

Not a nice situation for all those people who have booked, uncertainty remains. I would rather prefer it the way TC Britain communicated to their customers... they said something like all business has ceased and all flight and holiday bookings are cancelled... at least it is very clear then how to proceed and that the flights and holidays are for sure not happening anymore.

Waiting continues what will happen to my December holidays...

In the UK the TC board made an application to the High Court for a compulsory liquidation of the company. The court immediately made winding up orders against Thomas Cook Group plc and associated companies and appointed the Official Receiver as the liquidator of the company. All trading ceased and the job of the Official Receiver is to liquidate the assets in order to pay off the debts.

In other cases it's possible for the company to be run for a while longer according to local or national laws.
 
Sunbao
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:27 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:44 pm

InThrustWeTrust wrote:
Problems today for Ving, Three TCAS A330 on the gound in CPH because lessors needs garanties from Ving. TCAS are forbidden to land in Antalya and other problems as well. Its not good to be connected with Thomas Cook today



Oh well and a plane is taking off from trondheim to ayt in 17 mins so that dont look to hold either.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4825
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:45 pm

InThrustWeTrust wrote:
Problems today for Ving, Three TCAS A330 on the gound in CPH because lessors needs garanties from Ving. TCAS are forbidden to land in Antalya and other problems as well. Its not good to be connected with Thomas Cook today


It is 3 A321 that are grounded due to leasing issues, plus those A330 on Danish registry that has been flying for TCUK

Right now 2 of 4 A330s with TCAS is flying ;)
 
Sunbao
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:27 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:50 pm

Someone83 wrote:
InThrustWeTrust wrote:
Problems today for Ving, Three TCAS A330 on the gound in CPH because lessors needs garanties from Ving. TCAS are forbidden to land in Antalya and other problems as well. Its not good to be connected with Thomas Cook today


It is 3 A321 that are grounded due to leasing issues, plus those A330 on Danish registry that has been flying for TCUK

Right now 2 of 4 A330s with TCAS is flying ;)

Yeah and only one of Those 3 321 is still grounded.
 
Cafe5150
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:58 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:55 pm

Sunbao wrote:
Thomas cook Airlines scandinavia/vkg/viking


Ta.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4825
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:29 pm

InThrustWeTrust wrote:
. TCAS are forbidden to land in Antalya


Seems this has been solved. After a heavy delay, OY-TCF is now en route TRD-AYT
 
eagles94
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:37 pm

Looks like Condor is taking over TCUKs slots at Gatwick
 
Sunbao
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:27 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:53 pm

Someone83 wrote:
InThrustWeTrust wrote:
. TCAS are forbidden to land in Antalya


Seems this has been solved. After a heavy delay, OY-TCF is now en route TRD-AYT


The delay has nothing todo With problems in ayt the plane was late from Palma.
 
jomur
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:23 pm

spud757 wrote:

Unless they wet lease another operating airline, where will Jet2 (LS) get the extra Boeing aircraft from to meet the additional Turkey, mainland Spain, Balearic & Canary Isles capacity being offered?

Will LS go for some of MT’s slots, including a new U.K. base at LGW?


Not sll of Jet2 current aircraft will be operating over the winter season. Take GLA for example, they have 7 aircraft based here but the don't have 7 flights each swing sometimes is only a couple..
 
by738
Posts: 3095
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:32 pm

eagles94 wrote:
Looks like Condor is taking over TCUKs slots at Gatwick

Really? To do what with them? Take up the same TCX routes?
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:33 pm

eagles94 wrote:
Looks like Condor is taking over TCUKs slots at Gatwick


any link to back this up?
 
bennett123
Posts: 9631
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:10 pm

OA260

In the short term Jet2 could pick up ex WN B737-300 or Jet B737-800.

There are also 3 Germania B737-800 at Kemble. However, I think the 3Jet2 B737-300 are beyond saving.

In the longer term, once the B737MAX issue is past, there will be plenty of cheap B737-800 around.
 
tofen
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:25 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:28 pm

TCAS seems to have two A333s and four A321s operating with another A321 coming back just now.
Two other A321s seems to still maybe be affected by leasing issues since they operated a few flights yesterday but non today.
There's currently also three Jettime and one GetJet 737 operating with DK-callsign.

A321:
OY-TCD - Operating
OY-TCE - Got stuck at PMI yesterday but is on it's way back to HEL now.
OY-TCF - Operating
OY-TCG - Ferried to TLL Sept. 15th. Hasn't moved since. MX visit? Not sure why else it would be at TLL for this long.
OY-TCH - Operating
OY-TCI - Made three flights yesterday but has since been stuck in TRD. No movements today.
OY-VKC - Made two flights yesterday but has since been stuck at ARN. No movements today.
OY-VKD - Operating

A332:
OY-VKF - Was leased out to MT. Stuck at JFK since Monday.

A333:
OY-VKG - Operating
OY-VKH - Ferried to MAN Sept. 18th. Hasn't moved since. Hasn't operated any MT flights so that's not why went to MAN. MX at MT maybe?
OY-VKI - Operating
Last edited by tofen on Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
TC957
Posts: 3786
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:30 pm

eagles94 wrote:
Looks like Condor is taking over TCUKs slots at Gatwick

I can only think that they may taking them over for getting the best price out of the MT slots on the open market than a desire to operate from there themselves.
 
User001
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:43 pm

eagles94 wrote:
Looks like Condor is taking over TCUKs slots at Gatwick


The Thomas Cook slots will still be in the hands of the administrators as collateral, so will not have been released to ACL for onward distribution yet. And even in a perfect world they certainly wouldn’t have been re-allocated in 3 days. Therefore, this rumour has no foundation in reality.

What we have seen is that Condor has been selling tickets to the U.K. regions for its long haul flights, using Lufthansa as the connecting airline to those long haul routes from FRA.
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:44 pm

TC957 wrote:
I can only think that they may taking them over for getting the best price out of the MT slots on the open market than a desire to operate from there themselves.


There will be a lot of conspiracy theories and unless a poster can actually provide a credible source, that's exactly what this is.

Thomas Cook Group plc is in receivership, therefor no longer in charge of its assets, therefor cannot transfer or sell anything.
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:36 am

The usual suspects... investor Hans Rudolf Woehrl is interested in DE

according to Ralf Teckentrup, Managing Director of Condor Flugdienst GmbH, the company has been in talks with parties that already showed interest last February, when Thomas Cook Group plc put its airlines up for sale.

https://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Unterneh ... 96050.html
 
Sunbao
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:27 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:01 am

tofen wrote:
OY-TCG - Ferried to TLL Sept. 15th. Hasn't moved since. MX visit? Not sure why else it would be at TLL for this long.


Correct its There for mx
 
samair
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:23 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:42 am

Rather odd situation, but I’ve heard that the SmartLynx and Avion Express A/ac chartered by Titan are being operated by TCX crew?! Could anybody shed any light on this
the captain has now dimmed the lights for take off this is a routine procedure for flights during the hours of darkness!
 
Andy33
Posts: 2565
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:58 am

They *were* TCX crew. They've been hired on very short term contracts by Titan to operate these flights, and they are wearing TCX uniforms because they have no others, Titan wouldn't have had time to supply any, or any incentive to for just two weeks work.

Most, though certainly not all, were on seasonal contracts with TCX and would have left the company during October even if it had remained solvent, as flying always reduced dramatically during October and stopped altogether at the end of that month on many routes. No doubt they see a couple of weeks doing what they'd joined for, with the certainty of getting paid, as worthwhile.

The pilots are employed by SmartLynx or Avion Express
 
beglaflight
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:36 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:07 am

Jet2 may have all the room it needs to expand, if travelmole's article is anything to go by...

https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~_rnnvs~&w_id=36723&news_id=2039384

Looks like TUI are going to sit on their hands and hide behind cost-cutting and statistics.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1384
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:09 am

Channex757 wrote:
Jet2 have cancelled the disposal of 3 757-200 aircraft due to go this winter season. G-LSAG/H/I have been reprieved for now.


I saw that on Jethro's yesterday. This week's developments would be a logical explanation for them being kept on, though can't see it being long-term as all three of them are 32 years old.

samair wrote:
Rather odd situation, but I’ve heard that the SmartLynx and Avion Express A/ac chartered by Titan are being operated by TCX crew?! Could anybody shed any light on this


I read somewhere (PPRuNe I think) that Titan have taken some Thomas Cook crew on directly on short-term contracts to help with the repatriation exercise. Good for those guys/girls if true as it keeps them employed and money coming in for a few more weeks at least.

bennett123 wrote:
OA260

In the short term Jet2 could pick up ex WN B737-300 or Jet B737-800.

There are also 3 Germania B737-800 at Kemble. However, I think the 3Jet2 B737-300 are beyond saving.

In the longer term, once the B737MAX issue is past, there will be plenty of cheap B737-800 around.


I wouldn't hold your breath for any 737-300's joining the fleet. Jet2 have been progressively withdrawing their -300's over the last few years and all acquisitions over the last 5 years besides the Air Tanker A330's have been new or second-hand 737-800's.

I think for the coming weeks and months, what's most likely to happen is that the existing fleet combined with the reprieve of G-LSAG/H/I from withdrawal will just be used more intensively. There should be capacity to do so as they generally don't use their aircraft as intensively in the winter months. It'll be interesting to see what happens next year though.
 
eagles94
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:19 am

tofen wrote:
TCAS seems to have two A333s and four A321s operating with another A321 coming back just now.
Two other A321s seems to still maybe be affected by leasing issues since they operated a few flights yesterday but non today.
There's currently also three Jettime and one GetJet 737 operating with DK-callsign.

A321:
OY-TCD - Operating
OY-TCE - Got stuck at PMI yesterday but is on it's way back to HEL now.
OY-TCF - Operating
OY-TCG - Ferried to TLL Sept. 15th. Hasn't moved since. MX visit? Not sure why else it would be at TLL for this long.
OY-TCH - Operating
OY-TCI - Made three flights yesterday but has since been stuck in TRD. No movements today.
OY-VKC - Made two flights yesterday but has since been stuck at ARN. No movements today.
OY-VKD - Operating

A332:
OY-VKF - Was leased out to MT. Stuck at JFK since Monday.

A333:
OY-VKG - Operating
OY-VKH - Ferried to MAN Sept. 18th. Hasn't moved since. Hasn't operated any MT flights so that's not why went to MAN. MX at MT maybe?
OY-VKI - Operating


VKH was in the hangar at the time of administration. Not sure what it’s doing now.
VKF stuck in JFK as it was crewed by TCUK crew who I imagine were no longer able to operate.
 
flyjay123
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:07 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:21 am

I'm still convinced that Lufthansa will navigate a way to bid for Condor. The brand name is valuable, much loved in Gernany and they have a long history together. How they do it - only time will tell!

And maybe some of the Gatwick slots would be part of the plan, along with Manchester!
The Condor brand is not unknown now to the UK consumer .... and wasn't TCX's scheduled operation profitable? I see some juicy Man - US Condor routes on the cards ..... and watch out - both Gatwick - Norweigan, the Germans are coming!

Hasn't Eurowings recently discontinued Long haul operation's potentially paving the way for Condor in Germany at least.

Yes valubale slots will have to be given up here and there for competitors. Lufthansa will doing everything it can to preserve its fortres!

Just my opinion .. to add to all the speculation.
 
flyjay123
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:07 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:25 am

flyjay123 wrote:
I'm still convinced that Lufthansa will navigate a way to bid for Condor. The brand name is valuable, much loved in Gernany and they have a long history together. How they do it - only time will tell!

And maybe some of the Gatwick slots would be part of the plan, along with Manchester!
The Condor brand is not unknown now to the UK consumer .... and wasn't TCX's scheduled operation profitable? I see some juicy Man - US Condor routes on the cards ..... and watch out - both Gatwick - Norweigan, the Germans are coming!

Hasn't Eurowings recently discontinued Long haul operation's potentially paving the way for Condor in Germany at least.

Of course valubale slots will have to be given up here and there for competitors - that's a price worth paying! Lufthansa will do everything it can to preserve its fortres!

Just my opinion .. to add to all the speculation.


Sorry people thought I was posting in tge Condor post - I will try to move it across - but I guess it is kinda relevant here too.
 
User avatar
Channex757
Posts: 2394
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:59 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
I think for the coming weeks and months, what's most likely to happen is that the existing fleet combined with the reprieve of G-LSAG/H/I from withdrawal will just be used more intensively. There should be capacity to do so as they generally don't use their aircraft as intensively in the winter months. It'll be interesting to see what happens next year though.


The core problem of overcapacity will still be there and that might temper the LS desire for expansion. What might happen is the current diagrams of LS aircraft on trunk routes become more in tense; for instance the two rotations a day of the A330 fleet become three. An ALC might be slipped in between PMI and TFS, for example.

I could also see Philip Meeson begin a search for a few widebodies of his own for after the AirTanker contracts finish.
 
CrawleyBen
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:22 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:05 pm

According to the article below WIZZ Airlines, IAG, Virgin Atlantic & Easyjet are interested in the slots at Gatwick now available because of the demise of Thomas Cook.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... wick-slots

Cheers

Ben
 
tofen
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:25 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:20 pm

tofen wrote:
TCAS seems to have two A333s and four A321s operating with another A321 coming back just now.
Two other A321s seems to still maybe be affected by leasing issues since they operated a few flights yesterday but non today.
There's currently also three Jettime and one GetJet 737 operating with DK-callsign.

A321:
OY-TCD - Operating
OY-TCE - Got stuck at PMI yesterday but is on it's way back to HEL now.
OY-TCF - Operating
OY-TCG - Ferried to TLL Sept. 15th. Hasn't moved since. MX visit? Not sure why else it would be at TLL for this long.
OY-TCH - Operating
OY-TCI - Made three flights yesterday but has since been stuck in TRD. No movements today.
OY-VKC - Made two flights yesterday but has since been stuck at ARN. No movements today.
OY-VKD - Operating

A332:
OY-VKF - Was leased out to MT. Stuck at JFK since Monday.

A333:
OY-VKG - Operating
OY-VKH - Ferried to MAN Sept. 18th. Hasn't moved since. Hasn't operated any MT flights so that's not why went to MAN. MX at MT maybe?
OY-VKI - Operating


TCE is back in full operation after getting back from PMI late yesterday.
TCI and VKC still seem to be grounded.
VKG doesn't seem to have moved today either, leaving VKI as the only operating A330.

They seem to be doing a lot better today in terms of delays. Impressive considering what a pain scheduling must be for them right now.
 
tofen
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:25 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:23 pm

tofen wrote:
tofen wrote:
TCAS seems to have two A333s and four A321s operating with another A321 coming back just now.
Two other A321s seems to still maybe be affected by leasing issues since they operated a few flights yesterday but non today.
There's currently also three Jettime and one GetJet 737 operating with DK-callsign.

A321:
OY-TCD - Operating
OY-TCE - Got stuck at PMI yesterday but is on it's way back to HEL now.
OY-TCF - Operating
OY-TCG - Ferried to TLL Sept. 15th. Hasn't moved since. MX visit? Not sure why else it would be at TLL for this long.
OY-TCH - Operating
OY-TCI - Made three flights yesterday but has since been stuck in TRD. No movements today.
OY-VKC - Made two flights yesterday but has since been stuck at ARN. No movements today.
OY-VKD - Operating

A332:
OY-VKF - Was leased out to MT. Stuck at JFK since Monday.

A333:
OY-VKG - Operating
OY-VKH - Ferried to MAN Sept. 18th. Hasn't moved since. Hasn't operated any MT flights so that's not why went to MAN. MX at MT maybe?
OY-VKI - Operating


TCE is back in full operation after getting back from PMI late yesterday.
TCI and VKC still seem to be grounded.
VKG doesn't seem to have moved today either, leaving VKI as the only operating A330.

They seem to be doing a lot better today in terms of delays. Impressive considering what a pain scheduling must be for them right now.


And just as I posted that VKGs transponder lit up at OSL. Still two A333s running then.
 
NG263
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:34 pm

tofen wrote:
tofen wrote:
TCAS seems to have two A333s and four A321s operating with another A321 coming back just now.
Two other A321s seems to still maybe be affected by leasing issues since they operated a few flights yesterday but non today.
There's currently also three Jettime and one GetJet 737 operating with DK-callsign.

A321:
OY-TCD - Operating
OY-TCE - Got stuck at PMI yesterday but is on it's way back to HEL now.
OY-TCF - Operating
OY-TCG - Ferried to TLL Sept. 15th. Hasn't moved since. MX visit? Not sure why else it would be at TLL for this long.
OY-TCH - Operating
OY-TCI - Made three flights yesterday but has since been stuck in TRD. No movements today.
OY-VKC - Made two flights yesterday but has since been stuck at ARN. No movements today.
OY-VKD - Operating

A332:
OY-VKF - Was leased out to MT. Stuck at JFK since Monday.

A333:
OY-VKG - Operating
OY-VKH - Ferried to MAN Sept. 18th. Hasn't moved since. Hasn't operated any MT flights so that's not why went to MAN. MX at MT maybe?
OY-VKI - Operating


TCE is back in full operation after getting back from PMI late yesterday.
TCI and VKC still seem to be grounded.
VKG doesn't seem to have moved today either, leaving VKI as the only operating A330.

They seem to be doing a lot better today in terms of delays. Impressive considering what a pain scheduling must be for them right now.



According to skyliner, OY-TCI was/is to be ferried to TLS. Also interesting is the fact that of the German TC Aviation 3 A321's (D-ATCA, -D & -E) have not flown since Sunday. Wonder whether this is connected to the insolvency or not. Definitely not normal & as they are parked in LEJ & HAJ it is most probably not maintenance as that is done in DUS.
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:12 pm

CrawleyBen wrote:
According to the article below WIZZ Airlines, IAG, Virgin Atlantic & Easyjet are interested in the slots at Gatwick now available because of the demise of Thomas Cook.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... wick-slots

Cheers

Ben


There's something I don't get here:
Thomas Cook has around 15 daily slot pairs during summer at Gatwick, and around eight in the winter, according to the Airports Co-ordination Limited, the independent body that allocates airport slots.

This equates to about 3.5% of total slots at Gatwick during the peak summer period.

A spokeswoman for ACL said: “Thomas Cook Airlines’ operating licence remains valid and therefore it continues to hold slots at airports co-ordinated by ACL.”

I've thought the whole reason for "repatriation flights" and all that -- is that once Thomas Cook UK was declared bankrupt -- the operating license of the TC Airlines became void.
Now ACL says the airline has its paperwork in order.

Not particularly consistent, frankly.
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jomur
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:48 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
CrawleyBen wrote:
According to the article below WIZZ Airlines, IAG, Virgin Atlantic & Easyjet are interested in the slots at Gatwick now available because of the demise of Thomas Cook.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... wick-slots

Cheers

Ben


There's something I don't get here:
Thomas Cook has around 15 daily slot pairs during summer at Gatwick, and around eight in the winter, according to the Airports Co-ordination Limited, the independent body that allocates airport slots.

This equates to about 3.5% of total slots at Gatwick during the peak summer period.

A spokeswoman for ACL said: “Thomas Cook Airlines’ operating licence remains valid and therefore it continues to hold slots at airports co-ordinated by ACL.”

I've thought the whole reason for "repatriation flights" and all that -- is that once Thomas Cook UK was declared bankrupt -- the operating license of the TC Airlines became void.
Now ACL says the airline has its paperwork in order.

Not particularly consistent, frankly.


Two different things I think you will find. A bankrupt company can still have assets but not use them such as slots, aircraft etc which is what the current situation is. ACL does not grant licences for airlines to operate but who has what slot. TC as company sort of exists but as an empty shell until the Official Receiver has sols of the assets and finial disposed of the company. The Official Receiver has control of all of TC slots.
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:56 pm

jomur wrote:
The Official Receiver has control of all of TC slots


and her / his duty is to sell it to whoever offers the most, unless the competition authorities object
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Thomas Cook Bankruptcy Discussion Thread

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:20 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
jomur wrote:
The Official Receiver has control of all of TC slots


and her / his duty is to sell it to whoever offers the most, unless the competition authorities object


All very good and dandy. However. The Official Receiver either
1) has no operational airline credentials, and then has no right to slots
2) has operational airline credentials, may hold on to slots, but THEN is liable to perform contracted (and often prepaid) transportation services as a common carrier, no?

You cannot have it both ways, the "Schrödinger's cat box" was opened, and the cat is either dead or alive.

Of course, both Official Receiver and ACL like to pretend the box is still closed -- because if ACL pronounces the cat to be dead, and the slots to be back into the general pool, up for grabs -- creditors of TC are stiffed, and some of them may take the issue in courts. And if Official Receiver says that the cat is alive -- why all the fuss with TCA being grounded, and evacuation flights are in full swing?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam

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