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Finn350
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 4:00 am

FlyKBHM wrote:
Best exterior videos I've found on the evacuation from the R1 door at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCybSEQuP0I and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugc0tTyFvD8.

Syncing unique common events in the videos, like the ******* blocking the exit and then jumping out with his roll-aboard suitcase around 0:30, the videos from the two different views align with the video time of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCybSEQuP0I being three seconds (00:03) later than the video time of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugc0tTyFvD8.

The first person is on the slide 0:05 after R1 door opens. Incredibly, *nobody exits from 0:46 until 1:01*, when the last three persons exit in quick succession. The last person shown exiting R1 is at 1:08 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugc0tTyFvD8.


Based on the exterior videos it appears after all that the fire engines were quickly at the scene. The first fire engines were there spraying foam before end of the evacuation. The fire engines just were not visible in the first pictures emerging after the accident, as they didn’t show what happened back of the aircraft.
 
N809FR
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 4:03 am

Just curious, is it possible the second impact with the runway could have caused injuries severe enough to disable passengers in the aft section of the plane making them incapable of evacuation? I’m thinking broken backs or legs, though I suppose it’s just as likely they died from suffocation.
 
dashdrvr
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 4:06 am

The other thing to consider during the evacuation is maybe the interior was not intact. If the landing was hard enough to drive the gear through the wing, it possible the interior seats, bins became unattached and made egress difficult to impossible. The floor could have buckled so on and so forth.
 
dashdrvr
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 4:33 am

N809FR wrote:
Just curious, is it possible the second impact with the runway could have caused injuries severe enough to disable passengers in the aft section of the plane making them incapable of evacuation? I’m thinking broken backs or legs, though I suppose it’s just as likely they died from suffocation.

I think this is a very valid observation. I personally think post impact injuries and cabin interior damage will be the cause of most of the fatalities.
 
rj777
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 4:40 am

Hard to tell, but was the plane on fire before the first touchdown?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 4:47 am

shamrock350 wrote:
Waking up to hear the death toll has increased so dramatically is gut-wrenching, what a terrible tragedy this has turned out to be.

Sincere condolences to all those affected, the ones who were lost, their families, friends and colleagues. RIP.

Well said. I stopped following this story thinking/wishing there were no fatalities.

The update is... Tragic. I have decided not to watch the videos as it is just too horrible.

Lightsaber
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jumoser
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 5:06 am

rj777 wrote:
Hard to tell, but was the plane on fire before the first touchdown?


I don't think so, no. The fire starts after the second bounce which was much harder than the first.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 5:12 am

dashdrvr wrote:
From the twitter feed it looks like a huge bounce followed by an in incredibly hard landing that started the fire. It would seem the outcome would have been much better with a correct bounced landing recovery(most aircraft it is a missed approach).

No instruments would explain the approach that looks fast, and the bounce. That said, go around, dammit...
 
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777Jet
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 5:13 am

This might be a case in which the rear of the aircraft has a higher % of fatalities, due to the spread of fire / smoke...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
32andBelow
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 5:14 am

khobar95 wrote:
People seem to think pax just jump up and run for the exits, but they have to wait until instructed to evacuate. In AA383 it was 31 seconds between the aircraft stop and the first pax on the slide. BA2276 took about the same.

From the videos posted of this SSJ, by 41 seconds it appears the entire rear fuselage is burned through. Food for thought.

They don’t have to be instructed. What if all the FAs die? The exits are briefed and very self explanatory. Move the big lever and GTFO
 
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seahawk
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 5:15 am

FlyKBHM wrote:
Best exterior videos I've found on the evacuation from the R1 door at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCybSEQuP0I and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugc0tTyFvD8.

Syncing unique common events in the videos, like the ******* blocking the exit and then jumping out with his roll-aboard suitcase around 0:30, the videos from the two different views align with the video time of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCybSEQuP0I being three seconds (00:03) later than the video time of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugc0tTyFvD8.

The first person is on the slide 0:05 after R1 door opens. Incredibly, *nobody exits from 0:46 until 1:01*, when the last three persons exit in quick succession. The last person shown exiting R1 is at 1:08 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugc0tTyFvD8.


The rear fuselage was burned through around the 0:40 mark, the last 3 persons to evacuate all wear dark clothing, that look like crew uniforms, probably the FA and the pilots after checking for any remaining passengers in the accessible area. Imho anybody sitting behind the engines had no chance at all.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Mon May 06, 2019 5:19 am

VeeCee wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
aviatorcraig wrote:
It is so easy for us to sit at home or in the office on airliners.net in our safe environment and criticise people in an evacuation taking their hand luggage with them. These people have just gone from "normal" to a major traumatising, life threatening event in seconds and survival instincts kick in. Part of those survival instincts are to get yourself and your belongings to safety and back to "normal" as soon as possible.
I would bet if questioned later they do not even remember collecting their carry-on.
This will almost certainly be a once in a lifetime event for those involved and threatening passengers with legal action will make no difference at all. We have seen it happen repeatedly in the past and will see it happen in the future unless pax are physically seperated from their belongings.


If someone dies due to my actions, and it wasn't intentional, it is still manslaughter. There is no "we weren't thinking" involved. This is why the crew emphasizes that you should pay attention to the safety video/instruction and read the seat back.

While I am sure it was all overwhelming and it wasn't their intent, but they do say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.


Are you suggesting every case of pilot error should result in criminal prosecution?

Because they receive much more training than a passenger.

If the pilot forced the landing/bounce unnecessarily, the pilot is more at fault than a panicky passenger.


I am suggesting no such thing. All I said is that IF someone died due to my actions (be it the pilot or the person grabbing their bags) then I am still liable, even if it is unintentional.
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c933103
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Mon May 06, 2019 5:36 am

gatibosgru wrote:
VeeCee wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:

If someone dies due to my actions, and it wasn't intentional, it is still manslaughter. There is no "we weren't thinking" involved. This is why the crew emphasizes that you should pay attention to the safety video/instruction and read the seat back.

While I am sure it was all overwhelming and it wasn't their intent, but they do say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.


Are you suggesting every case of pilot error should result in criminal prosecution?

Because they receive much more training than a passenger.

If the pilot forced the landing/bounce unnecessarily, the pilot is more at fault than a panicky passenger.


I am suggesting no such thing. All I said is that IF someone died due to my actions (be it the pilot or the person grabbing their bags) then I am still liable, even if it is unintentional.

Even if that is biologically uncontrollable reflex actions?
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simonriat
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 5:40 am

HI all

Just woke to this terrible news, condolences to the families.

Quick question on the SSJ. Does it not have fuel dump capabilities?

Slightly digressing, but the lightening strike has got me be a slightly worried. If it managed to fry the electronics, and disable systems, who is to say that even if it did have a fuel dump system, it would have become inoperable?

Once again terrible news and I hope the investigators find the answers.

Thanks in advance
Simon
 
Dispatcher9999
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 5:41 am

Quick question to help me understand a couple of things, as I have no real knowledge of the SSJ or it’s systems, and obviously I don’t know the cause or any of the mitigating circumstances or the state of the aircraft in the crash.
If this has been caused by a lightning strike resulting in a full electrical system failure, would the aircraft be that hard to control, that after the first bounce a go around could not be performed? As it seems that at the first bounce the aircraft is in one piece and there is no fire. It looks like the damage occurs on the second touch down thus resulting in the fire.
Not that I’m questioning the crews actions, I can’t begin to comprehend what it would be like to be in their position, this is more asking about a full system failure on the SSJ.

Condolences to all those who have lost loved ones, and the survivors that will suffer the after effects.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 5:46 am

simonriat wrote:
HI all

Just woke to this terrible news, condolences to the families.

Quick question on the SSJ. Does it not have fuel dump capabilities?

Slightly digressing, but the lightening strike has got me be a slightly worried. If it managed to fry the electronics, and disable systems, who is to say that even if it did have a fuel dump system, it would have become inoperable?

Once again terrible news and I hope the investigators find the answers.

Thanks in advance
Simon

No way can it dump. And it doesn’t need to. Any airplane can land overweight in an emergency. It just needs an inspection if it does.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Mon May 06, 2019 5:47 am

gatibosgru wrote:
I am suggesting no such thing. All I said is that IF someone died due to my actions (be it the pilot or the person grabbing their bags) then I am still liable, even if it is unintentional.


When it comes to criminal prosecution, this is an oversimplification. Crimes such as manslaughter still require a showing for recklessness -- basically, gross negligence -- which is a significantly higher bar that ordinary negligence. For civil liability, ordinary negligence may work, but you'd still have to establish duty, causality, etc. (I'm speaking of civil the US, here; I can't say about Russia.)
 
spacecadet
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:05 am

Some people are getting way off track here. What caused the deaths of these 40+ passengers is the fact that this plane crashed on the runway and burst into flames. The evacuation is secondary. Evacuations never go perfectly, which is why they're performed so rarely and are sometimes delayed even in emergencies. The AF accident is something of an anomaly - but as some have said, even in that accident, people were carrying their luggage. This is not a new thing, either - the NTSB has mentioned this in accident reports going back at least to the 1960's. The only suggested remedy has always been better passenger briefings and firmer instructions by F/A's during an emergency - both of which are now done.

But without the crash, those 40+ people would still be alive. That's where the focus should be right now. I realize that there are really only these 3 videos and some news reports to talk about, so people are focusing on what they see. But remember, you don't *have* to write a comment if the only thing you have to add is that plane crash victims should be given the death penalty because they were carrying a bag with them on the way out of the plane. I don't feel like comments like that are constructive, or even have anything much to do with this accident. This evacuation looks pretty much like all the others I've seen. And you really have no idea why the other passengers didn't get out. The rear of that plane looks pretty well demolished and engulfed in flames before the evacuation even starts.
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:11 am

dashdrvr wrote:
From the twitter feed it looks like a huge bounce followed by an in incredibly hard landing that started the fire. It would seem the outcome would have been much better with a correct bounced landing recovery(most aircraft it is a missed approach).


The cabin could be very wrong that landing was a must so the pilots force the plane down to the runway again at any cost and consequent.
 
Blankbarcode
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:15 am

The original in-cabin video of the right side may very well be the view of one of the last people to get out given how far back they were. Really scary thought. Also note how some smoke was already present just as the aircraft stopped in that video.

I think there are elements of truth in everything that has been said so far, that being:
-Overhead bins popped open, dumped luggage over the aisles
-Overhead components broke off and obstructed rear aisle
-Floor potentially buckled
-Cabin was already slightly breached by the time the aircraft stopped
-Some passengers did in fact sift through dumped luggage/open bins to retrieve carryons
-Injuries sustained during landing helped cause some deaths
-Prior damage, landing gear through wings, or both caused the fire early
-Large amount of fuel still in tanks made the fire more intense
-Delayed communication with fire services played a role


Given how open the cabin is, I'm personally positive some elements of obstruction was a big player here. But just my thoughts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n_3CaL5AyE
(Video is of Aeroflot SSJ100, and judging by Aeroflot seatmap, it's taken from the last row.)
 
xmp125a
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:17 am

777Jet wrote:
This might be a case in which the rear of the aircraft has a higher % of fatalities, due to the spread of fire / smoke...


That being Russia, the screenshot of the excel file with names and conditions of the pax is already making rounds on twitter and one thing is unmistakable: almost everyone at or before row 10 survived (1 exception), and almost everyone after row 10 died (6 exceptions). I won't post the screenshot here, as I am not sure it is genuine, and of course, since it contains pax names.

There seem to be passanger from row 18 (A, window seat) who is alive, another one from 15C. These two must somehow climb over seats to get in front of the evacuation queue, or perhaps were not at their seats at all (there were some free seats in front of the economy class).
 
xmp125a
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:19 am

seahawk wrote:
The rear fuselage was burned through around the 0:40 mark, the last 3 persons to evacuate all wear dark clothing, that look like crew uniforms, probably the FA and the pilots after checking for any remaining passengers in the accessible area. Imho anybody sitting behind the engines had no chance at all.


Pilots left the cockpit via windows+evacuation ropes. At least, initial reports stated so (of course they also stated everyone evacuated safely, so a grain of salt here is needed).
 
Dreamflight767
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:24 am

If it's true that all electronics failed, how did the transponder keep transmitting data and the 76/7700 squawk. FR24 clearly has the aircraft's flight path and ALT/speed read-out.
 
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Lingon
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:24 am

Amateurish observation: The last bounce seems to me as they try to climb out but have insufficient lift and fall down on the runway. It is very high for a bounce.
 
AirwayBill
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:25 am

Russian News Agencies claim the aircraft received a lightning strike causing a total electrical failure and subsequent return and a hard landing.

Source:AvHerald

I genuinely wonder how accurate those first "lightning strike leading to electrical failure" reports are.

This seems to be a media's favorite when it comes to emitting first hypothesises, often to be discarded later on during the investigation (AF447, etc etc.).

Not to mention that Russian media outlets are hard to be trusted.
 
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777Jet
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:26 am

xmp125a wrote:
777Jet wrote:
This might be a case in which the rear of the aircraft has a higher % of fatalities, due to the spread of fire / smoke...


That being Russia, the screenshot of the excel file with names and conditions of the pax is already making rounds on twitter and one thing is unmistakable: almost everyone at or before row 10 survived (1 exception), and almost everyone after row 10 died (6 exceptions). I won't post the screenshot here, as I am not sure it is genuine, and of course, since it contains pax names.

There seem to be passanger from row 18 (A, window seat) who is alive, another one from 15C. These two must somehow climb over seats to get in front of the evacuation queue, or perhaps were not at their seats at all (there were some free seats in front of the economy class).


Interesting. I always have a good look at those seat maps that show where the high fatality / survival rate was seated and look for correlations between the type of crash / accident and statistics.
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:35 am

32andBelow wrote:
khobar95 wrote:
People seem to think pax just jump up and run for the exits, but they have to wait until instructed to evacuate. In AA383 it was 31 seconds between the aircraft stop and the first pax on the slide. BA2276 took about the same.

From the videos posted of this SSJ, by 41 seconds it appears the entire rear fuselage is burned through. Food for thought.

They don’t have to be instructed. What if all the FAs die? The exits are briefed and very self explanatory. Move the big lever and GTFO


What causes the delays in evacuation? I imagine there are procedures to check which exits are safe to open and evacuate from. Isn’t that up to the FA assigned to the particular exit(s)?
 
xmp125a
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:43 am

simonriat wrote:
Quick question on the SSJ. Does it not have fuel dump capabilities?

Slightly digressing, but the lightening strike has got me be a slightly worried. If it managed to fry the electronics, and disable systems, who is to say that even if it did have a fuel dump system, it would have become inoperable?


It does have fuel dump capabilities, but the pilots decided not to dump, since they lost radio contact with the tower due to widespread electrical malfunction. And plane was not too heavy, I read somewhere only 1 ton over maximum landing weight.

However, from the initial reports, which reported plane landing in flames and everyone safe, where I thought "wow, look at this aircraft, no way one could pull that of in a Boeing/Airbus, it must be resilient as hell", now a troublesome picture emerges. Forgive me, anyone, for speculating, but we know some of the thing as fact, due to having flightradar24's track and many videos of the landing... did the pilots make the fatal mistake with the rushed landing?

What we know now or can deduce is:

1) Something causes widespread electrical failure on the plane.
2) Radio is disabled, among other things, pilots lack the ability to contact tower, they only squawk codes for radio failure and emergency
3) This being FBW aircraft, it goes to direct law (seen reports stating this) after avionics and sensors are taken down by electrical failure
4) Crew turns around and decides for emergency landing.
5) There were reports that this was second attempt at landing, but flightradar24 track does not support that assertion, aircraft makes one 360 circle and then attempts to land.
6) Landing goes terribly wrong, the airplane is bounced 2 times to a height of at least 5 meters, the force of last bounce pierces fuel tanks, aircraft on fire.

Everyone, please help me understand/confirm the following:
1) Plane went to direct law, but it was obviously still flyable - there is plenty of airborne maneuvering that would be impossible if pilots lost all control. Engines were working, so there would be hydraulic power too.
2) Even in direct law, plane can be perfectly flown and landed, just it lacks envelope protections to guard against clumsy pilots, in direct law, flight surfaces get directly connected to pilot's inputs.
3) Is there any failure mode where plane would be flyable (they basically nailed the runway, as flight data shows) but some controls would be inoperable to land it safely?

I simply cannot understand how they got all the way to landing and then a disaster... in a FBW plane?
4) Were the pilots in too much hurry to get it down ASAP and they made mistake by not going around?
5) Is it even possible that they lost all the instruments and could not estimate landing speed and height visually?
6) The visual conditions were good for VFR and I assume that if they routinely fly that kind of plane you actually don't need the instruments to show you that you are going way too fast, not to mention too high?

I now suspect that severe pilot error is on the table as well... they survived, so they will be able to tell their side of the story soon, I guess.
 
zakelwe
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:43 am

xmp125a wrote:
seahawk wrote:
The rear fuselage was burned through around the 0:40 mark, the last 3 persons to evacuate all wear dark clothing, that look like crew uniforms, probably the FA and the pilots after checking for any remaining passengers in the accessible area. Imho anybody sitting behind the engines had no chance at all.


Pilots left the cockpit via windows+evacuation ropes. At least, initial reports stated so (of course they also stated everyone evacuated safely, so a grain of salt here is needed).


Last one down the slide seemed to be wearing a red Aeroflot FA uniform (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCybSEQuP0I), which if so indicates correct , and brave, actions by that person. Seeing the later videos I fear this is a case that so much fuel burning meant that the people at the rear had very little chance even with everything working perfectly.

I find it very very sad when there is very little of a fighting chance for people to try and save themselves, especially in such a frightening event as a fire.
 
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:44 am

Sad to see this high number of fatalities, last time i was on this thread everyone survived. We can already draw the lines of the accident report:

- Diversion caused by lightning strike and its impact on the aircraft
- Hard landing and fire start
- Evacuation of pax

I wouldn't be surprised if the overhead bins failed during the hard landing and impeded the evacuation (+ disturbed pax trying to get their luggages). Hope that the investigation will be fast and correctly made.
Last edited by LaunchDetected on Mon May 06, 2019 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mxaxai
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:45 am

seahawk wrote:
FlyKBHM wrote:
Best exterior videos I've found on the evacuation from the R1 door at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCybSEQuP0I and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugc0tTyFvD8.

Syncing unique common events in the videos, like the ******* blocking the exit and then jumping out with his roll-aboard suitcase around 0:30, the videos from the two different views align with the video time of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCybSEQuP0I being three seconds (00:03) later than the video time of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugc0tTyFvD8.

The first person is on the slide 0:05 after R1 door opens. Incredibly, *nobody exits from 0:46 until 1:01*, when the last three persons exit in quick succession. The last person shown exiting R1 is at 1:08 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugc0tTyFvD8.


The rear fuselage was burned through around the 0:40 mark, the last 3 persons to evacuate all wear dark clothing, that look like crew uniforms, probably the FA and the pilots after checking for any remaining passengers in the accessible area. Imho anybody sitting behind the engines had no chance at all.

The AvHerald says that the flight crew evacuated through the cockpit windows. But agree that these 3 look like crew. One of them appears to run towards the fire engines. Perhaps to alert them of unaccessible passengers at the rear of the plane?

At ~0:40 you can see the black stringers supporting a red-hot glowing fuselage skin. Apparently only 5 - 10 of the passengers needed to be hospitalized. Either you made it without a scratch, or you had no chance at all. The FA initially confirmed dead was probably at the rear of the cabin, and was the easiest to account for.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:45 am

Flight recorders probably readable

https://tourism.interfax.ru/ru/news/articles/58770/
 
mxaxai
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 6:52 am

c933103 wrote:
Also the article wording seems to imply that 37 person have been confirmed survive but that doesn't mean 41 people are dead, just that 41 people could die from the accident?

Well, identification of victims is probably still ongoing. Counting the living seems to be easier than counting the dead. It might be possible that someone on the passenger list didn't board the aircraft, or that someone evacuated but did not report to the emergency services.
 
clancy688
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:02 am

spacecadet wrote:
But without the crash, those 40+ people would still be alive. That's where the focus should be right now.


Just normal human reactions. "There has been an accident!" "So someone must have fucked up!"

Whenever an accident happens, the first thing people do is looking for someone to be at fault. Because... there has to be, right? Like the fire brigade, allegedly reacting too slow. Or the pax blocking the aisle when retrieving luggage.

Truth is, sometimes shit just happens and you can't pin it down on anyone in particular. But that's not what people want to believe.



Regarding the landing gear possibly rupturing the fuel tanks: We got a vid from the left and one from the right, and pretty much both wings are on fire. So possibly both sides of the landing gear punched through their respective wings and ignited them. Is that supposed to happen?
 
eielef
Posts: 685
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:07 am

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:08 am

In the AFP Video, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugc0tTyFvD8) there are a couple of things that call my attention.
At 0:00 door 1R is already opened, slide works properly
At 0:04 people starts evacuating using 1R
At 0:08 you can see people is already evacuating using 1L. Maybe they started a couple of seconds earlier.
The evacuation seems orderly, people knows exactly what to do. There are some passengers that delay it a few seconds, e.g. at 0:13, at 0:25, at 0:38: evacuate 90 people in 90 seconds using two slides mean a person in one slide every two seconds, but there are periods of over 5 seconds with no one coming out...
At 1:01 comes three persons from 1R dressed in black, after almost 15 seconds of no activity. I believe that could be well the crew members.
At 1:26 evacuates still one more person, dressed in orange, and it stays near the raft. I feel awful believing this person could be a parent waiting for his child, or for his wife/husband.
Most important finding: at 1:18, everyone has evacuated (at least all the survivors), and is just at THIS moment the fire fighters arrive. First truck arrives and start throwing foam to the back part of the plane, which happens by 1:20. At 1:38 arrives the second truck of fire fighters.... You can't listen, during all the video, any fire alarm, any siren, any police, any ambulances...
It seems a very precarious situation, extremelly precarious. It could well be the pilot lost radio contact early during the flight. So my question is: how did they land at a very busy airport, if they had no radio? Why didn't they ask for emergency personal?

Last but not least, the plane left the runway and ended in the grass, very close from the tarmac of terminals DEF, that means a left turn after landing in 24L, at the intersection with taxiway A3. This marks a very long landing sequence (certainly a very bad one as well) using 2700m of the 3700m of runway available. I can't find on the Jeppesen chart where are the fire fighters located, but it can't be very far from there.
I also can't find any ATC recording of the instructions, as I could well translate it for you, guys..

Anyway, is a sad day in Russia. I'll get some printed newspapers to see what they say there..
 
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flee
Posts: 906
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Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:13 am

zeke wrote:
fpetrutiu wrote:
This looks very much like an uncontained engine failure that ruptured the wing tank. RIP to those that perished. Now at 41.

Could be the landing gear, or even a failure of the wing itself from the landing

It is plausible - the aircraft was overweight since it had just taken off. As such, it had a very hard landing that caused the main gear to puncture the tanks. Fuel poured out from the tanks and onto the hot engine exhausts. A huge fireball engulfed the aircraft and by the time it stopped, the fire had taken hold.

RIP to all who lost their lives.
 
eielef
Posts: 685
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:07 am

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:20 am

mxaxai wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Also the article wording seems to imply that 37 person have been confirmed survive but that doesn't mean 41 people are dead, just that 41 people could die from the accident?

Well, identification of victims is probably still ongoing. Counting the living seems to be easier than counting the dead. It might be possible that someone on the passenger list didn't board the aircraft, or that someone evacuated but did not report to the emergency services.


At around 2am, Aeroflot published the list of SURVIVORS. https://www.aeroflot.ru/ru-en/news/61326 It consists of 28 survivors + 5 injured, that means 33 people. But they should be at least 37 one. Maybe Aeroflot didn't publish the 4 surviving crew member, and what would be 37 (33+4)
 
axiom
Posts: 841
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:23 am

How devastating. I have nothing else to add.
 
tigerzhong13
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:42 pm

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:31 am

Was it another CZ3456?
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4194
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:38 am

By the time that plane came to a stop, the rear was already engulfed. Those in the rear and over wing exits had no chance of being able to utilize them. With how raging those flames were, one has to wonder how soon the smoke entered the cabin?

Some of the photos of the front of the plane show crazy smoke residue above the forward exit doors. I am thinking many that passed away were already unconscious pretty quickly with all of that smoke.

Any word from the pilots of that flight yet? I am really curious to hear what they were up against.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
ptwings
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:37 pm

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:41 am

eielef wrote:
In the AFP Video, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugc0tTyFvD8) there are a couple of things that call my attention.

In this other longer video from another angle you can see people later trying to climb the slide
Very shocking these videos, people in the rear probably never had a chance. RIP :(

https://youtu.be/-5OnYm5uIE8
 
AirwayBill
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:37 am

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:50 am

F9Animal wrote:
By the time that plane came to a stop, the rear was already engulfed. Those in the rear and over wing exits had no chance of being able to utilize them. With how raging those flames were, one has to wonder how soon the smoke entered the cabin?

Some of the photos of the front of the plane show crazy smoke residue above the forward exit doors. I am thinking many that passed away were already unconscious pretty quickly with all of that smoke.

Any word from the pilots of that flight yet? I am really curious to hear what they were up against.


+1
I suspect that, as with the British Airtours Crash, most PAX would have already passed away because of toxic smoke Inhalation shortly after the plane had come to a halt.
Not to mention that the opening of front exits could have worsened the fire in the cabin due to flow of incoming oxygen.
This was nothing short of a death trap for most passengers sitting behind the wings, truly horrific. :shakehead:
 
ikarlson
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:04 am

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:51 am

F9Animal wrote:

Any word from the pilots of that flight yet? I am really curious to hear what they were up against.



There was a small interview last night, but no one knows if it was real. Pilot sounded calm and said lost all radio communication after lightning strike, no word why he bounced so badly during landing, pilots didn't know about fire
 
yabeweb
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:41 am

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:52 am

AirwayBill wrote:
yabeweb wrote:
After the FAA fiasco, who is a reliable and to be trusted source?


There was no comparison made in the first place. I've said the Russian media is barely reliable, which, on its own, has proven to be true time over time.

Never said you compared, but the point is valid, WHO is reliable and Who is not? and who is to decide?

EDIT:
You also talk about Media, and media, is hardly reliable, they say what it sells!
Last edited by yabeweb on Mon May 06, 2019 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
macc
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:11 pm

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:53 am

Aside what has been the origin of the emergency, this needs to be looked at from design perspective and carefully analysed. People in the rear had no chance at all. It needs to be studied if improvements in the design of the cabin nacelle could possibly avoid such a situation in the future. Landing gear rupturing through the fuel tank is also not too reassuring.

Horrible accident this is.
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
 
xmp125a
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 7:56 am

flee wrote:
It is plausible - the aircraft was overweight since it had just taken off. As such, it had a very hard landing that caused the main gear to puncture the tanks. Fuel poured out from the tanks and onto the hot engine exhausts. A huge fireball engulfed the aircraft and by the time it stopped, the fire had taken hold..


Unconfirmed report under AVHerald article claims they were only 1 ton over the MLW. Hardly an issue, if true.
 
upintheair2018
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:59 am

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 8:03 am

Both flight recorders found. http://tass.com/emergencies/1057058
 
Appie88
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:45 pm

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 8:09 am

eielef wrote:
Most important finding: at 1:18, everyone has evacuated (at least all the survivors), and is just at THIS moment the fire fighters arrive. First truck arrives and start throwing foam to the back part of the plane, which happens by 1:20. At 1:38 arrives the second truck of fire fighters.... You can't listen, during all the video, any fire alarm, any siren, any police, any ambulances...

Not sure, this picture shows an ARFF on scene during evacuation

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ypAZjdiXX1w/ ... 2Bnews.jpg

Can someone sync this picture with the time in the video?
 
pyates2104
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:06 pm

Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Mon May 06, 2019 8:10 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
Here is the flight SU1492 track as per the Flightradar24

Image

Image

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 2#20671283

That flight path doesn't really look like missed approach that was reported by some other sites?

It looks like a 360 to bleed off speed or altitude.



That's exactly what it looks like yes, too fast, too high, orbit, lose height and speed is exactly what they appeared to have done.
 
pugman211
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: Updated: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO) - 40+ confirmed dead

Mon May 06, 2019 8:12 am

ptwings wrote:
eielef wrote:
In the AFP Video, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugc0tTyFvD8) there are a couple of things that call my attention.

In this other longer video from another angle you can see people later trying to climb the slide
Very shocking these videos, people in the rear probably never had a chance. RIP :(

https://youtu.be/-5OnYm5uIE8



Watching that video, roughly within 60 seconds of the aircraft coming to a halt, the tail of the plane had melted off. That's a very intense fire. RIP to those that lost their lives.
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