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spartanmjf
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:35 pm

mxaxai wrote:
eielef wrote:
either on the emergency exits over the wings

The SSJ, like the E-170 and CSeries, has no over-wing exits. Only front and back. Theoretically, this could be a textbook evacuation with half of the exits inoperable, 90 seconds time ...


FYI there are two overwing exits on the A220-100/CS100.
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
ZKCIF
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:37 pm

As far as I understand, of the 41 casualties, there are 40 passengers (including 2 children) and 1 male flight attendant.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:38 pm

clancy688 wrote:
TexStones wrote:
The solution is actually pretty simple: lock the overhead compartments during takeoff and landing. The tech probably already exists, and while it would be expensive to implement it would certainly help save lives in situations such as this.


Then you have people blocking the aisle for even longer because they futilely try to pry open overhead compartments which are locked shut. There is no real good solution here. People will do irresponsible things when panicked, we're only human and not machines. It's easy to demonize the people who foolishly tried to retrieve their baggage, but I guarantee you that pretty much none of them will ever put their luggage above another human's life - if given a calm minute to think about it.

The problem simply is that shit was hitting the fan and they didn't think about the consequences, because for obvious reasons there wasn't much time at hand to do any thinking.

I'm not defending these people. What they did was stupid and if it cost other people's life, there should be a reckoning. But we're not computers, and it's very unfair to expect normal people who suddenly find themselves in life-or-death situations to think logically. We're simply not built for that.



I wish I had your faith in humanity. I agree that a lot of people might react irrationally, but all it takes is one yo-yo grabbing their bad for the rest to think “I don’t want to be the stupid one who lets my stuff burn when everyone else grabbed theirs!” or some such. Sort of a heard mentality. That’s why you can be compassionate to people reacting irrationally but why you then need to get their attention immediately before you start a chain reaction.

Listening to the screams in that twitter video makes me so angry towards anyone who may have held up the evacuation. I’m just going to tell myself that somebody stepped up and yelled “GET OUT!!”, hopefully saving a few lives in the process.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:39 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
the SSJ100 has had crashes before.
Indonesian in 2012 was one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Moun ... rjet_crash

6 incidents listed in database, for 155+ jets in service not a great record.

https://aviation-safety.net/database/ty ... -100/index


And 1 incedent was the tow bar disconnecting & the pilot not paying attention & the plane nosed into a a jet way. Causing damage to a 4 month old frame & a jet way.
 
trnswrld
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:42 pm

Wow, holy shit I would hate to be one of those surviving passengers that got off that plane with something that they may have retrieved from an overhead bin....or under their seat, or anything for that matter. Shame on them :-(
 
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nordikcam
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:45 pm

trnswrld wrote:
Wow, holy shit I would hate to be one of those surviving passengers that got off that plane with something that they may have retrieved from an overhead bin....or under their seat, or anything for that matter. Shame on them :-(

...hum exactly what I said !
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:45 pm

Having been in a burning building a few times and in an airplane, why anyone would want to stick around for any longer than it takes them to run away is beyond me. An airplane on fire is no place to delay evacuating.

I do hope they throw the book at any responsible. And, if you’re between me and the exit of burning run or be kicked in the ass by size 9 boots.

GF
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:48 pm

ZKCIF wrote:
As far as I understand, of the 41 casualties, there are 40 passengers (including 2 children) and 1 male flight attendant.


It would have been great to have less casualties, as first reported. Per seatguru, the SU SSJ can seat F12 and Y75. I guess most of the 41 casualties were in the rear half. Were they stuck because of some trying to get their belongings? Was it due to the smoke or the heat?
 
speedbird52
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:50 pm

tu204 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
https://www.interfax.ru/moscow/660212
According to Russian report, the evacuation was rather quick, but some passengers trying to take their personal belonging from luggage rack have made it difficult for passengers at the back to evacuate and thus caused their death.


That qualifies under part 1, article 109 Criminal Law of the Russian Federation.

 1. Causing death by negligence -
shall be punished with correctional labor for up to two years, or restriction of liberty for up to two years, or forced labor for up to two years, or imprisonment for the same period.


Good luck proving it though. You would have to have the videos of other dumbasses that were filming the evacuation as evidence with the faces of those that were pulling their luggage from the overheads and their statements.

I would suggest the death penalty for anyone who did this. Preferably by flamethrower. Disgusting greedy selfish people. If not that then they should at least provide millions in compensation to the families of the victims.
 
caaardiff
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:52 pm

Given that this is becoming a common occurrence during emergency evacuations, should there be a way of completely locking out all (passenger use) overhead lockers by the crew before landing?
It may also slightly lessen the chance of lockers opening and bags falling out during a hard landing.
 
eielef
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:52 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
6 incidents listed in database, for 155+ jets in service not a great record.
https://aviation-safety.net/database/ty ... -100/index


Is not 6 incidents, is just three (sure, you can count the Interjet that crashed a jetbridge, or the prototye in Keflavik, but still you don't get any six).
REG 97004 45 lost in Jakarta, Indonesia. 09MAY2012.
RA-89011 nonfatal in Yakutsk, Russia. 10OCT2018. - Runway was faulty.
RA-89098 41 lost in Moscow, Russia. 05MAY2019. Investigation in process.
 
tu204
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:55 pm

caaardiff wrote:
Given that this is becoming a common occurrence during emergency evacuations, should there be a way of completely locking out all (passenger use) overhead lockers by the crew before landing?
It may also slightly lessen the chance of lockers opening and bags falling out during a hard landing.


I imagine this would be extremely difficult from.an engineering point of view...
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
clancy688
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:56 pm

It's probably a miracle that anyone got out alive.

This video shows the start of the evacuation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCybSEQuP0I

Take special notice of the left side of the plane. The moment the left side chute inflates (i.e. the door opens), grey smoke starts billowing out (starting at 0:10). It looks like the smoke is coming out of the plane a bit behind the right side exit, but that actually makes sense since on a Superjet, the left side exit seems to be a bit behind the right side exit ( https://www.aeroflot.ru/media/aflfiles/ ... 100_de.png ). This smoke quickly grows denser and blacker. This can also be seen in this image on avherald: http://avherald.com/img/aeroflot_su95_r ... 0505_1.jpg

Meaning that the cabin was already engulfed in smoke when they opened the emergency slides. The way the plane came to rest (pointing upwards) also meant that the smoke went towards the exits. It only takes 3-4 breaths of smoke to lose consciousness. And even if not, the chances of getting to the exits in time when you see nothing at all are pretty non-existent as well.

Something else one can see on this image (since I've read a few comments about the fire brigade reacting slowly): They obviously had fire engines on standby, since there's one already fighting the fire while the evacuation is in progress (i.e. seconds after the plane came to rest). You just can't see it on all the other pictures because it's behind the blaze.
Last edited by clancy688 on Sun May 05, 2019 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Phenix621
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:56 pm

This also happened during the Asiana Airlines crash at SFO. It’s time for airlines to LOCK overhead bins during takeoffs and landings to prevent this.
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:57 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
ZKCIF wrote:
As far as I understand, of the 41 casualties, there are 40 passengers (including 2 children) and 1 male flight attendant.

...
Was it due to the smoke or the heat?

Normally smoke is what kills you, or the carbon monoxide/dioxide to be specific, but other gases may come in play as well. In this case, I'm not so sure. Unfortunately, as no cooling was initiated by ARFF in anywhere near a decent time frame, heat might have caused some of the occupants to die. That would probably mean lungs collapsing due to inhalation of hot air/gases and unconsciousness in a minute or so, while other things are happening to your exterior, not to be too precise.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 9:59 pm

eielef wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
eielef wrote:
either on the emergency exits over the wings

The SSJ, like the E-170 and CSeries, has no over-wing exits. Only front and back. Theoretically, this could be a textbook evacuation with half of the exits inoperable, 90 seconds time ...

Perhaps the more realistic way to adress carry-on luggage is to account for an increased evacuation time during design and testing. Just make every other test person during the evacuation test carry a 10 kg suitcase.


Good observations, thanks!
As of the evacuation, which should have been done in 90 seconds, according to an official communication of Aeroflot (https://www.aeroflot.ru/ru-en/news/61325?from=en_main) it was performed in 55 seconds, which would be a very good one. But still, as for the moment, 41 people were lost, that is over half of the people onboard...

True. Clearly the plane was not empty after 55 seconds so can it be presumed that the remaining passengers were unconscious or dead from fire or smoke already? Like AC 797 perhaps.
Or did passengers attempt to reach the rear exits? If you watch the evacuation videos, there is a fast & continuous stream of passengers coming from the doors initially, but eventually the evacuation frequency slows considerably. After ~6 seconds of no movement, a person in a red jacket slides out. SU uniforms are red, so this might have been the FA at the door leaving before conditions became unbearable.

(Side note: the CSeries does indeed have over-wing exits. My mistake. The MRJ, on the other hand, is another aircraft without over-wing exits)
 
Msakr
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:05 pm

What is known:
-Plane sqawked 7700 3 minutes after takeoff requesting emergency landing
- Circled only once to try to dump fuel or lose altitude
- 13 minutes after takeoff made emergency landing at SVO
- Hard landing with a bump then a second touchdown that teared structures seems and broke fuel reservoirs, plane burst in flames from its midst (at fuel sections) and rear gears collapsed due to hard impact..
- Evac started when plane came to a standstill half of it engulfed in flames and smoke
- Death toll first at one then continued to climb to 5,13 and 41 seems smoke inhalation poisoning most likely..
 
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lollomz
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:06 pm

R.I.P. What a sad day.......
[url="http://www.diecastmodelaircraft.com/collection/Lollomz"]Image[/url]
 
speedbird52
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:06 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
nordikcam wrote:
thevery wrote:
All evacuated, 6 injured.


Evacuation ...and passengers with their luggages...Congratulations Aeroflot !


It happens all the time these days, passenger behaviour is out of the airlines' control.

Recent examples of fire evacuations;

British Airways 2276
American 383
Asiana 214

All were spotted with at least some passengers wandering around with wheelie bags, duty free etc.



Do you think that we might seriously want to consider getting rid of overhead bins?
 
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GE90man
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:08 pm

tu204 wrote:
caaardiff wrote:
Given that this is becoming a common occurrence during emergency evacuations, should there be a way of completely locking out all (passenger use) overhead lockers by the crew before landing?
It may also slightly lessen the chance of lockers opening and bags falling out during a hard landing.


I imagine this would be extremely difficult from.an engineering point of view...

A lock controlled by the crew should be enough.
 
LHUSA
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:12 pm

The passengers video from inside the plane looks fairly far back, at least behind the wing. They also stay at their seat for several seconds after the aircraft came to a stop, but still made it out. Hard to believe there were still 40 pax behind them that did not get out. Very very sad
 
WWads
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:13 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:
nordikcam wrote:

Evacuation ...and passengers with their luggages...Congratulations Aeroflot !


It happens all the time these days, passenger behaviour is out of the airlines' control.

Recent examples of fire evacuations;

British Airways 2276
American 383
Asiana 214

All were spotted with at least some passengers wandering around with wheelie bags, duty free etc.



Do you think that we might seriously want to consider getting rid of overhead bins?


Absolutely. This should be the wake up call. If it can't fit under the seat, it goes in the hold.
 
flyinTLow
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:13 pm

a short moment of silence to those perished and injured in this accident.

Just a thought though:
In more then 90% of the cases it is the smoke and fumes that kill people, not the fire. So I am afraid the people in the back never had a standing chance.

And then again as someone pointed out before, people behave irrational in stressful situations. Fight, flight or freeze comes to my mind. And no matter how much you think you know how you behave, I can tell you you will be surprised the first time something like that comes up what thoughts come to your head.
You wish it hadn‘t come to this, and had one person left their belongings in exchange of a further life saved it would have been worth it. But then again, in all fairness, we would be discussing the second that didn‘t make it out.
This is a horrible accident, as is often the case most likely attributes to many factors and with many standing in disbelief, pain and anger in view of the victims. But putting blame on someone, let them be engineers, pilots or passengers (and especially for those a.netters wanting to sentence them to life or death) will only increase the death toll and will not get back the lives of the perished. As much as the ego of a few
hinders them, try to be reasonable and focus
your energy on finding out what happened here, help prevent something like this from happening again, standby the mourning, pay your respect to the victims. If you are unable to do that, try a gym membership or go for a run!

RIP
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:13 pm

clancy688 wrote:
Something else one can see on this image (since I've read a few comments about the fire brigade reacting slowly): They obviously had fire engines on standby, since there's one already fighting the fire while the evacuation is in progress (i.e. seconds after the plane came to rest). You just can't see it on all the other pictures because it's behind the blaze.

I think the first fire engine (seen in the last pic at AVH) only just arrived when the picture was taken. By then, the evac was almost over, and that took well over a minute from the plane coming to rest. In total, that's at least two minutes from touchdown. A fire engine standing by cannot approach a moving aircraft, but it should be on the move and ready to engage momentarily. Perhaps the rules for time of engagement were indeed followed, as they have been relaxed in recent years, but applying cooling to a burning aircraft has to be done in some 90-100 seconds in order to help. The first and second fire engines seemed more interested in suppressing the flames rear of the aircraft than cooling the fuselage.
 
clancy688
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:22 pm

LHUSA wrote:
The passengers video from inside the plane looks fairly far back, at least behind the wing. They also stay at their seat for several seconds after the aircraft came to a stop, but still made it out. Hard to believe there were still 40 pax behind them that did not get out.


I'm not sure about that. You can't see *that* much in the video, but I think you never see the trailing edge of the wing. You can see a fire engulfed *something* right in the first second (maybe the landing gear which punched through the wing?), and you can see the leading edge and the engine cowl right at the beginning. That would put the passenger very far forward in the cabin. Row 8 or 9:

https://www.aeroflot.ru/media/aflfiles/ ... 100_de.png

Location of the landing gear would fit, too:

http://i59.fastpic.ru/big/2013/1017/58/ ... 61d658.jpg
 
ltbewr
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:30 pm

That must of have been a very severe and intense fire from the wings back. As only in the air for a short time it likely had most of its planned fuel aboard, no time or ability to dump/burn off fuel so a lot to feed the fire.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:31 pm

mxaxai wrote:
The SSJ, like the E-170 and CSeries, has no over-wing exits. Only front and back. Theoretically, this could be a textbook evacuation with half of the exits inoperable, 90 seconds time ...

Perhaps the more realistic way to adress carry-on luggage is to account for an increased evacuation time during design and testing. Just make every other test person during the evacuation test carry a 10 kg suitcase.


The CS100 has one overwing exit each side, the CS300 has one or even two in the max 160 seat high density configuration. But this is no surprise, the CSeries are a lot more plane than the SSJ or E170.

In my opinion there should be a possibility to lock all overhead bins in case of an evacuation. Of course passengers have to know that this will happen. Maybe this way people could get off faster?

This is very sad, I was so relieved that everyone made it out of that thing, now I read about so many deaths :| .
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SEU
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:32 pm

Meh, I cannot imagine what the people on that flight went through.

From looking at the flightradar stats and other sources, it looks like the plane had some from of control issue. I know it looks like the pilots should have gone around but I think the plane was fully out of control at that point.

I second that we need to have locks on the overhead bins that only the pilots can lock/unlock so they can lock them on takeoff and landing, although I saw a few posts up that it might be difficult to achieve from an engineering point of view? Why would that be?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:32 pm

LHUSA wrote:
The passengers video from inside the plane looks fairly far back, at least behind the wing.


I've seen two different videos, one on the right side the other on the left. For the former, the passenger seem to be seating (11F)not far from the leading edge with the engine visible, while from the left, ahead of the engine and perhaps in first class, either 3A or 6A.


https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Aerof ... 00-95B.php
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:33 pm

Sad to hear about so many deaths, that landing was so unstable. I wonder what type of issues the crew were facing. I also fear pax grabbing luggage played a huge role in the deaths of some. Those rear exits are completely blocked and everyone in the back has to get out in the front.
 
Airbuser
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:37 pm

I just saw a video of the plane when it first touched down. It did not appear to be on fire. It bounced came down and hit the tail then the fire started. ABC news.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:43 pm

except it probably was the direct cause of many of these people dying.
xx
 
D L X
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:48 pm

Armadillo1 wrote:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1125121672212828162

Shit, man. You need to warn people about this stuff!

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more horrifying video.
 
VeeCee
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:49 pm

usxguy wrote:
except it probably was the direct cause of many of these people dying.

Do you also support prosecuting pilots when people are injured or killed due to pilot error?
 
danman132x
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:58 pm

It makes me so angry knowing more lives could have been saved if people weren't so damn selfish and taking their overhead luggage!! There needs to be a law implemented for this asap! And make it known in the preflight safety demonstration and video, over and over, that during an emergency you DO NOT TAKE YOUR LUGGAGE!
 
speedbird52
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:58 pm

VeeCee wrote:
usxguy wrote:
except it probably was the direct cause of many of these people dying.

Do you also support prosecuting pilots when people are injured or killed due to pilot error?

In cases of gross negligence, yes.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:59 pm

One more thought as we’re all arguing about overhead bins...

In this specific instance, that hard “landing”, bounce and further “landing” would surely have popped open most of the overhead bins and sent many of the items falling onto people and into the aisle. In which case I could see it being more likely that people would grab their bags.

With that landing I am sure many of these bags would have actually obstructed the aisle, possibly slowing down the evacuation.

‘902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
speedbird52
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 10:59 pm

danman132x wrote:
It makes me so angry knowing more lives could have been saved if people weren't so damn selfish and taking their overhead luggage!! There needs to be a law implemented for this asap! And make it known in the preflight safety demonstration and video, over and over, that during an emergency you DO NOT TAKE YOUR LUGGAGE!

No one watches safety demos. The only solution is for the overheads to go.
 
timpdx
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 11:09 pm

Certainly looks like part of the main gear penetrated the wing all the way through. Here are 2 screenshots from the interior video. The dark object remains in the flames consistently on top of the wing. When the video pans towards the forward window, there is flame and perhaps damage visible.

Image
Flown 2018: LAX, ARN, DXB, ALA, TAS, UCG, ASB, MYP, GYD, TBS, KUT, BER, TLS, SVO, CCF, DUB, LGW, MEX, BUR, PDX, ORD, SLC, SNA
Upcoming 2018: STL, MIA, BZE, IAH, BHM, LHR, DFW, PHX
 
TexStones
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 11:09 pm

clancy688 wrote:
Then you have people blocking the aisle for even longer because they futilely try to pry open overhead compartments which are locked shut. There is no real good solution here.


Actually, there *is* a good solution here: put the baggage in the baggage compartment.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 11:09 pm

Does the SSJ Superjet have a center section fuel tank that may have been breached blocking egress of the aft cabin, during the landing gear collapse and ensuing fire?

Tragic and immense condolences to the families of the cherished lost.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
NozPerry
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 11:09 pm

clancy688 wrote:
TexStones wrote:
The solution is actually pretty simple: lock the overhead compartments during takeoff and landing. The tech probably already exists, and while it would be expensive to implement it would certainly help save lives in situations such as this.


The solution is mainly a lock on the flap, my last two Airlines have had this on several overhead lockers for crew items, it’s one key to open the locks.
I love the feel of a Go Around in the morning
 
juliuswong
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 11:10 pm

This is absolute tragic that more than half of the passengers and crew didn't make it. I went to bed with reported one death, now upon waking up it's 41!! I hope moving forward safety regulators and other stakeholders will come up with some measures to deter passengers from retrieving their belongings especially in such fiery landing. Also, the emergency team, it took some time to arrive.

My heart goes out to those who perished. RIP. Their life is cut short due to someone's selfishness. I hope karma will find their way to those who evacuated safely with their belongings. This is absolutely non-excusable.

Kudos for crew who managed to bring others to safety. Question here though why did the pilot evacuated himself/herself when not all his/herself passengers have been evacuated? This might be one question the investigation team need to look into.

Research shown those sitting at the back has higher chance of survival in the event of crash landing. Sadly it didn't happen in this crash landing. There might be more passengers at the back in this accident due weight balance issue.

For rest of us here, there are just too much information coming in and theories. May I suggest we keep our cool heads and let the authorities do their work? Harping over and debating unproven factors, causes and fighting is just as unfruitful.
Last edited by juliuswong on Sun May 05, 2019 11:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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atcsundevil
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 11:10 pm

Let's please keep the discussion on topic by discussing the events that occurred today, rather than talking about baggage policies or advocating for harm to come to passengers who don't follow proper evacuation procedures. Please be respectful to other users and to those involved in this accident.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
flyinTLow
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 11:13 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Let's please keep the discussion on topic by discussing the events that occurred today, rather than talking about baggage policies or advocating for harm to come to passengers who don't follow proper evacuation procedures. Please be respectful to other users and to those involved in this accident.

✈️ atcsundevil


Thank you for the reaction!
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KlimaBXsst
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Re: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 11:23 pm

Survivability factors will be of interest as to if backups occurred at the L1 and R1 Doors or if the deceased never had a chance prior to flashover.

Survivability factors investigations in the US would take into consideration if carry on luggage impeded evacuation.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 11:24 pm

timpdx wrote:
Certainly looks like part of the main gear penetrated the wing all the way through. Here are 2 screenshots from the interior video. The dark object remains in the flames consistently on top of the wing. When the video pans towards the forward window, there is flame and perhaps damage visible.

Image


I was trying to figure out what that thing was in the video. Does anyone else concur with this?
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: Aeroflot 1492 SSJ100 fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 11:28 pm

Fumes came into the cabin quickly. We can see the back half of the plane was destroyed and fire services were slow to arrive.

We can debate the issue of bags later but the slow arrival of fire services raises the stakes significantly, especially with the amount of fuel they had aboard. The plane was nine shy of passenger capacity with two exits apparently unusable. The casualties were likely far heavier to the rear of the aircraft.
 
trnswrld
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 11:39 pm

clancy688 wrote:
LHUSA wrote:
The passengers video from inside the plane looks fairly far back, at least behind the wing. They also stay at their seat for several seconds after the aircraft came to a stop, but still made it out. Hard to believe there were still 40 pax behind them that did not get out.


I'm not sure about that. You can't see *that* much in the video, but I think you never see the trailing edge of the wing. You can see a fire engulfed *something* right in the first second (maybe the landing gear which punched through the wing?), and you can see the leading edge and the engine cowl right at the beginning. That would put the passenger very far forward in the cabin. Row 8 or 9:

https://www.aeroflot.ru/media/aflfiles/ ... 100_de.png

Location of the landing gear would fit, too:

http://i59.fastpic.ru/big/2013/1017/58/ ... 61d658.jpg


I’m not sure the exact seat, but that video looks pretty clear to me to be taken from right over the wing. Maybe slightly rear of center of the wing.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Aeroflot SSJ100 on fire at Moscow (SVO)

Sun May 05, 2019 11:41 pm

My condolences to the dead and wish a speedy recovery to the survivors.

A faster rescue response from the fire engines would have saved lives in this scenario. We can't blame it on the fire engines, we have to see what ATC was doing as well.
I see most people coming out without any bags. Some have their jackets in their hands, this is understandable. If I'm sitting in a burning aircraft and about to exit, the first reaction is to remove the jacket to shield yourself from smoke and heat.
Some came out after a delay and carrying bags. Those deserve to be put in jail if surviving witnesses testify that they blocked the only exit path.

A lightning strike usually chooses the easiest path out.
Aircraft have electrical bonding on movable parts that are electrically isolated, to create an exit path. If such path doesn't exist, the electricity will make one, causing arcing and acting as a welder, welding movable parts to fixed parts.

In this particular case, the crew seem to have reported a lightning strike and a radio failure through the transponder, later escalating to a mayday squawk.
They came back in to land rather than waste time on checklists. So the situation must have been pretty bad. Pilots won't maker that call on a hunch.
The landing could have been better if their aircraft was perfect, but the aircraft is coming in really fast. We don't even know if they had control over the throttles. At such a high speed and with probably not much to work with in terms of flight controls, perhaps this was the best they could do.

The pilots may intentionally have veered the aircraft around to somewhat face the wind. Either way, that saved many lives.

Authorities should mandate locking all overhead bins not containing emergency or survival equipment. It can be done relatively easily and should be made mandatory. Passengers should be informed that they will be locked while the seatbelt sign is on, so that no one even tries.
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