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Cointrin330
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QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 1:32 am

Australian Business Traveler reporting that Qantas will switch from the 747-400ER to the 787-9 on the SFO-SYD-SFO rotation (QF 74/73) starting December 4th 2019. This is not entirely unexpected, given the 747 at QF is being phased out from 2020. Significant capacity reduction but a much improved product.
 
atsiang
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 1:38 am

Great, that means airfares will rise dramatically on this route. I fly this route a lot. Within a few years on this route, UA downsized from 747-400 to 777-200 to 787-9. And now with QF downsizing, planes are not only packed but it's going to be a lot more expensive.
 
jupiter2
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 1:44 am

atsiang wrote:
Great, that means airfares will rise dramatically on this route. I fly this route a lot. Within a few years on this route, UA downsized from 747-400 to 777-200 to 787-9. And now with QF downsizing, planes are not only packed but it's going to be a lot more expensive.


You could use FJ via NAN, maybe they'll increase their SFO flights when they get their 350's. Otherwise, like you say, this is good for the airline, not so much for passengers wanting to go direct to SFO from SYD.
 
mmpower12
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:00 am

Interesting perspective here about the increase prices. Actually I have noticed that LAX-SYD/MEL on UA lately have been cheaper than 5 years ago with 747 - I can find around $500-600 roundtrip compare with $1500 in 2014.
 
speedbird52
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:02 am

That's sad. I really hope the 747 comes back to Vancouver so I can get one last time to see her.
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:06 am

speedbird52 wrote:
That's sad. I really hope the 747 comes back to Vancouver so I can get one last time to see her.


Scheduled for DEC 19 JAN 20.

Not to surprised SFO is the first route ex SYD, I wonder if they will increase MEL at the expense of the second LAX flight? And I’d the AA/QF JV is approved then maybe AA doing LAX-MEL.
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:25 am

Is it possible thant UA's IAH-SYD service played a role in this downgrade?
Going from a 388 to a 789 is a huge downgrade for SFO.
Last edited by AVENSAB727 on Tue May 07, 2019 2:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:33 am

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Is it possible thant UA's IAH-SYD service played a role in this downgrade?
Going from a 388 to a 789 is a huge downgrade for DFW, DFW will now only have 1 380 flying there.


Where did you see QF is downgrading DFW?... Nothing has been confirmed.

And DFW already only has one A380 flight on Qantas after Emirates downguaged to a 777-300.
 
9w748capt
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:34 am

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Is it possible thant UA's IAH-SYD service played a role in this downgrade?
Going from a 388 to a 789 is a huge downgrade for DFW, DFW will now only have 1 380 flying there.


Wow I didn't realize DFW-SYD is being downgauged? That is a big loss for DFW!
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:37 am

9w748capt wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
Is it possible thant UA's IAH-SYD service played a role in this downgrade?
Going from a 388 to a 789 is a huge downgrade for DFW, DFW will now only have 1 380 flying there.


Wow I didn't realize DFW-SYD is being downgauged? That is a big loss for DFW!

Its not, I misread the title of this thread. My bad. Honest Mistake.
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atsiang
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:42 am

mmpower12 wrote:
Interesting perspective here about the increase prices. Actually I have noticed that LAX-SYD/MEL on UA lately have been cheaper than 5 years ago with 747 - I can find around $500-600 roundtrip compare with $1500 in 2014.


There is now a lot more competition on the LAX-SYD route with UA, AA, DL, QF and VS flying this route. Wish there are that many airlines competing on the SFO-SYD route.
 
keithball288
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:42 am

That is Really not a surprise that they are using the 787-9. As it is wasn't the 787-9 to take over from the 747 when they retired ?
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EK413
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:46 am

atsiang wrote:
Great, that means airfares will rise dramatically on this route. I fly this route a lot. Within a few years on this route, UA downsized from 747-400 to 777-200 to 787-9. And now with QF downsizing, planes are not only packed but it's going to be a lot more expensive.


Sucks to see the B744 days numbered...

United will begin direct flights between Melbourne and San Francisco from October 2019.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/united-airline ... co-flights

EK413
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leftcoast8
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:51 am

atsiang wrote:
Great, that means airfares will rise dramatically on this route. I fly this route a lot. Within a few years on this route, UA downsized from 747-400 to 777-200 to 787-9. And now with QF downsizing, planes are not only packed but it's going to be a lot more expensive.


Lufthansa switching from a 346 to 744 on the FRA-YVR route added ~560 seats/week and drove down fares to India/Gulf/African destinations, so I feel you
 
FlyDeltaJetsATL
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:53 am

atsiang wrote:
Great, that means airfares will rise dramatically on this route. I fly this route a lot. Within a few years on this route, UA downsized from 747-400 to 777-200 to 787-9. And now with QF downsizing, planes are not only packed but it's going to be a lot more expensive.


Good for the airline if they will be making more money. When having to purchase a ticket, in the last ten years I have been paying about half the price that I used to pay for the exact same trips twenty years ago. Go figure. Something had to give. With the demise of the 747s and A380s, and with the increased usage of smaller twins, expect the price of air travel to rightfully increase moving forward as there will be fewer seats that airlines will need to sell for cheap. Hopefully airlines pass on some of these increased profits to their hard working and underpaid staff but I'm not holding my breath.

Now for a slightly off topic question; when will QF only have the ER version of the 744 operating?

Jesse
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Bluebird191
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:55 am

atsiang wrote:
mmpower12 wrote:
Interesting perspective here about the increase prices. Actually I have noticed that LAX-SYD/MEL on UA lately have been cheaper than 5 years ago with 747 - I can find around $500-600 roundtrip compare with $1500 in 2014.


There is now a lot more competition on the LAX-SYD route with UA, AA, DL, QF and VS flying this route. Wish there are that many airlines competing on the SFO-SYD route.


VS is flying SYD-LAX? Did you mean VA?
 
qantas747
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:58 am

I wonder if there is a further announcement to come to balance SFO capacity. MEL already has 4pw. I wonder if BNE might get the other 3pw replacing the evening LAX flight....? Or perhaps ORD is on the radar?
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 4:23 am

qantas747 wrote:
I wonder if there is a further announcement to come to balance SFO capacity. MEL already has 4pw. I wonder if BNE might get the other 3pw replacing the evening LAX flight....? Or perhaps ORD is on the radar?


I don’t think we can view this as simply a capacity reduction, given MEL would have absorbed some. We need to look at the broader AU-US network, and I feel more changes are to come once the AA/QF JV is approved.
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 4:25 am

qantas747 wrote:
I wonder if there is a further announcement to come to balance SFO capacity. MEL already has 4pw. I wonder if BNE might get the other 3pw replacing the evening LAX flight....? Or perhaps ORD is on the radar?


I don’t think we can view this as simply a capacity reduction, given MEL would have absorbed some. We need to look at the broader AU-US network, and I feel more changes are to come once the AA/QF JV is approved.
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 4:33 am

smi0006 wrote:
qantas747 wrote:
I wonder if there is a further announcement to come to balance SFO capacity. MEL already has 4pw. I wonder if BNE might get the other 3pw replacing the evening LAX flight....? Or perhaps ORD is on the radar?


I don’t think we can view this as simply a capacity reduction, given MEL would have absorbed some. We need to look at the broader AU-US network, and I feel more changes are to come once the AA/QF JV is approved.

Looking at other Qantas flights that they also replaced 747 with 787 I don't really think that's too much of their concern?
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jfk777
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 9:06 am

This was coming since the next plane in the Qantas fleet that can fly nonstop to the USA is the 787-9. This makes the case for the 777-9, the 787-9 is great except that its a medium sized plane when a route needs a large one. QF needs a plane seating 300 passengers between the 787-9 and their A380. Hoping we will finally see a 777 with the Kangaroo.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 11:27 am

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Is it possible thant UA's IAH-SYD service played a role in this downgrade?
Going from a 388 to a 789 is a huge downgrade for SFO.


QF does not operate the A380 on SYD-SFO. It has only operated the 744 since the route was relaunched.
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 11:46 am

QF’s capacity decrease will hopefully be good for FJ on SYD-NAN-SFO and NZ on SYD-AKL-SFO.
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x1234
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 12:02 pm

If VA were smart they'd start SYD-SFO a few times a week...
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 12:17 pm

Whilst there is a short term capacity reduction as the airline pushes to retire the inefficient 747s, you need to remember that Qantas started flying MEL-SFO in September last year. With that in mind, the overall capacity level once this change takes place will actually be fairly similar to pre-September 2018 levels. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the airline opened BNE-SFO a few years from now. Remember that the airline stopped flying to SFO completely for a few years.
First to fly the 787-9
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 12:25 pm

zkojq wrote:
Whilst there is a short term capacity reduction as the airline pushes to retire the inefficient 747s, you need to remember that Qantas started flying MEL-SFO in September last year. With that in mind, the overall capacity level once this change takes place will actually be fairly similar to pre-September 2018 levels. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the airline opened BNE-SFO a few years from now. Remember that the airline stopped flying to SFO completely for a few years.


Lets not also forget that until the outcome of the AA/QF JBA is known we are unlikely to see any changes, in terms of frequencies, to the US. If a JBA is approved I can see QF deploying more capacity into DFW and SFO while reducing frequencies at LAX. That will allow AA to add frequencies at LAX. So QF's route network is going to stay in a bit of a state of flux for a little while.
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 12:32 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Is it possible thant UA's IAH-SYD service played a role in this downgrade?
Going from a 388 to a 789 is a huge downgrade for SFO.


UA's IAH-SYD service has nothing to do this with transition. Overall capacity from SFO to Australia isn't being cut QF already launched SFO-MEL and starting later this year October 29th, UA is launching year around 3X weekly service SFO-MEL.
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 12:36 pm

Sydscott wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Whilst there is a short term capacity reduction as the airline pushes to retire the inefficient 747s, you need to remember that Qantas started flying MEL-SFO in September last year. With that in mind, the overall capacity level once this change takes place will actually be fairly similar to pre-September 2018 levels. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the airline opened BNE-SFO a few years from now. Remember that the airline stopped flying to SFO completely for a few years.


Lets not also forget that until the outcome of the AA/QF JBA is known we are unlikely to see any changes, in terms of frequencies, to the US. If a JBA is approved I can see QF deploying more capacity into DFW and SFO while reducing frequencies at LAX. That will allow AA to add frequencies at LAX. So QF's route network is going to stay in a bit of a state of flux for a little while.


QF will not allow AA to take over LAX frequencies. AA’s hard product for high fare customers isn’t in the same league.
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 1:01 pm

ATLgaUSA wrote:
Sydscott wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Whilst there is a short term capacity reduction as the airline pushes to retire the inefficient 747s, you need to remember that Qantas started flying MEL-SFO in September last year. With that in mind, the overall capacity level once this change takes place will actually be fairly similar to pre-September 2018 levels. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the airline opened BNE-SFO a few years from now. Remember that the airline stopped flying to SFO completely for a few years.


Lets not also forget that until the outcome of the AA/QF JBA is known we are unlikely to see any changes, in terms of frequencies, to the US. If a JBA is approved I can see QF deploying more capacity into DFW and SFO while reducing frequencies at LAX. That will allow AA to add frequencies at LAX. So QF's route network is going to stay in a bit of a state of flux for a little while.


QF will not allow AA to take over LAX frequencies. AA’s hard product for high fare customers isn’t in the same league.


QF will absolutely continue to operate daily SYD/MEL/BNE-LAX as hell would freeze over before they give that up. A lot of people though believe that QF55/56 and QF95/96 would be terminated and AA add at least LAX-MEL and maybe LAX-BNE, probably less than daily to start, at least seasonally.
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babastud
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:35 pm

mmpower12 wrote:
Interesting perspective here about the increase prices. Actually I have noticed that LAX-SYD/MEL on UA lately have been cheaper than 5 years ago with 747 - I can find around $500-600 roundtrip compare with $1500 in 2014.



This is due to the fact that their is overall more capacity in the system then 5 years ago, not necessarily LAX-Australia, but from DFW, IAH, SFO, etc.... This has made LAX a less primary connecting airport as it used to be far and away the main one. We don't see the seat count decrease from LAX because nobody wants to lose market share so prices come down big time.
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 2:57 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Australian Business Traveler reporting that Qantas will switch from the 747-400ER to the 787-9 on the SFO-SYD-SFO rotation (QF 74/73) starting December 4th 2019. This is not entirely unexpected, given the 747 at QF is being phased out from 2020. Significant capacity reduction but a much improved product.


Only until the 777x arrives! 8-) :smile: :tapedshut:
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 3:25 pm

ATLgaUSA wrote:
Sydscott wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Whilst there is a short term capacity reduction as the airline pushes to retire the inefficient 747s, you need to remember that Qantas started flying MEL-SFO in September last year. With that in mind, the overall capacity level once this change takes place will actually be fairly similar to pre-September 2018 levels. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the airline opened BNE-SFO a few years from now. Remember that the airline stopped flying to SFO completely for a few years.


Lets not also forget that until the outcome of the AA/QF JBA is known we are unlikely to see any changes, in terms of frequencies, to the US. If a JBA is approved I can see QF deploying more capacity into DFW and SFO while reducing frequencies at LAX. That will allow AA to add frequencies at LAX. So QF's route network is going to stay in a bit of a state of flux for a little while.


QF will not allow AA to take over LAX frequencies. AA’s hard product for high fare customers isn’t in the same league.

Bit of a broad generalizing statement.
Soft product, sure. But AA’s J class product is certainly better on the hard product side on the 77W or the 789 vs QF’s current/old J space capsule seat and on par with QF’s new J seat (my opinion obviously). Arguably, the economy hard product isn’t too different either.
On the food/service side, there are innumerable stories from the AA syd-lax launch a few years ago about AA’s change in food/beverage standards (even caviar in AA first when the 77W flew the route) to get closer to QF’s service-level for that specific route.
The entire point of a JV is to pool revenue and fly the optimal aircraft for the route. It would be self-defeating for Qantas to sign up for a potential JV if they didn’t believe in how to optimize the relationship. They really shouldn’t care who flies LAX-XXX if it increases the overall money into the JV pool and allows them to use an aircraft somewhere else in North America, like the rumored Chicago or increasing service into dfw as the poster above suggests.
 
babastud
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 4:51 pm

BAorAB wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Australian Business Traveler reporting that Qantas will switch from the 747-400ER to the 787-9 on the SFO-SYD-SFO rotation (QF 74/73) starting December 4th 2019. This is not entirely unexpected, given the 747 at QF is being phased out from 2020. Significant capacity reduction but a much improved product.


Only until the 777x arrives! 8-) :smile: :tapedshut:



What's the ETA on that?
 
YYZORD
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 7:48 am

Would the 787 help make SYD-YVR a year round route?
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 8:38 am

YYZORD wrote:
Would the 787 help make SYD-YVR a year round route?


The current ones are to premium heavy imo, less than the 744 sure but a lot less Y aswell which is why I don’t think YVR will go year round just yet, and plenty of other routes they will likely go on first.
 
Tikchik
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:12 am

Can someone tell me the routes, equipment snd frequency that QF flew to LAX in 2000?
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:16 am

Tikchik wrote:
Can someone tell me the routes, equipment snd frequency that QF flew to LAX in 2000?

SYD-LAX
MEL-LAX
744
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Gemuser
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:53 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Tikchik wrote:
Can someone tell me the routes, equipment snd frequency that QF flew to LAX in 2000?

SYD-LAX
MEL-LAX
744

BNE-LAX B744 not always daily

Gemuaer
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:06 am

Gemuser wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Tikchik wrote:
Can someone tell me the routes, equipment snd frequency that QF flew to LAX in 2000?

SYD-LAX
MEL-LAX
744

BNE-LAX B744 not always daily

Gemuaer


Think it was daily BNE-AKL-LAX all the way back in the early 2000s with the 744. Don't remember exact date when QF switched the via NZ routing to BNE-AKL-LAX from MEL-AKL-LAX (which was the 90s routing).

The BNE-LAX non-stop, which started life as QF175/176 (now known as QF15/16) started not long after but it was not daily initially. IIRC it was only either x2 or x3 weekly at first.
 
Tikchik
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:54 am

I remember seeing an Airbus 332 (akl) and also a 3 holer around that time at Bradley?
 
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chepos
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:59 am

I recall BNE at one point flew out of T4 at LAX? I’m I recalling this correctly or have I lost my mind.


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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:18 am

nonstop BNE/LAX started in either 2003 or 2004 initially as 3x Weekly. Not sure when exactly QF25 changed from BNE to MEL but I would think around 2005. Also on certain days there was an extra BNE-SYD tag in both directions to rotate the 2 class 744 that operated the route.

332 to LAX didn't start until the delivery of the long haul 332 around late 2007 early 2008. Before then the 332 where initially short haul then Jetstar. And I'm quite confident the 333 has never operated a revenue flight further east (relative to Australia) than HNL. If it has it would've been a one off.

And I don't think Qantas has operated a three engined aircraft since the DHA-3 Drover in the 40s/50s. There was a wet leased DC-10 around 1987 but I believe it stayed in Martinair colours.
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:29 am

Gemuser wrote:
BNE-LAX B744 not always daily

There was no BNE-LAX in 2000.

There was an AKL-LAX, that the schedules linked to BNE at the time of its termination in 2012 (QF25), but was fed from multiple Australian gateways into N.Zealand before heading off Stateside.

Prior to 2009, the flight was marketed as originating in MEL. The last QF 743 flew the MEL-AKL-LAX run on its retirement flight in January that year.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
ericm2031
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:39 am

I don't think this will necessarily mean an increase in prices. Have to look at the US-Australia market as a whole and as more and more flights are being added, you'll see downgauging, but more options (more destinations, non-stop options, and airlines). The market isn't big enough to keep adding routes and keep the same capacity on the existing ones.
 
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:00 am

Thanks for the replies regarding scheduling. I must be thinking of JAL with the 3 holer.
 
Qantas59
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:51 am

QF BNE-LAX services began June, 2004 and were often seen at Terminal 4 in LAX.
QF25/26 was assigned to MEL-AKL-LAX from 28 Jan 2006.
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:24 am

QF16 continued to depart from T4 until 2014 (IIRC - maybe 2013?)
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:24 am

QF in 2000/01 NW to LAX had IIRC

SYD-LAX 3x daily
MEL-LAX daily
BNE-AKL-LAX daily

All 744s
 
cedarjet
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:00 am

I thought BNE flights to LAX (whether via AKL or nonstop) started out with the 747-300?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: QF SFO-SYD Transitions to 787-9 From December 4th 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:04 am

cedarjet wrote:
I thought BNE flights to LAX (whether via AKL or nonstop) started out with the 747-300?


BNE-LAX non stop is way to far for a 743 with an sort of load. AKL-LAX started with a 743 in the 1980s for QF, they appeared towards the end of their lives at QF on AKL-LAX again at times including the very last scheduled service for the type with QF.

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