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william
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 3:06 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Last time I did the math, 2025 is in six years, not 10. As another poster pointed out, this is publicly released knowledge.


Boeing took 6 years to reengine the 737, and it turned out full of faults. The 737-10 variant alone will take 4 years. Are you seriously suggesting they could do a clean-sheet design in 6 years?!?

He told you he knows. He's an insider who cannot reveal his sources, cannot provide any hard information, can't do none of that... But he knows. How dare you doubt him?

/s


And if he is? This board is better with people actually inside the industry instead of bunch of arm chair CEOs, no nothings, and brochure spec readers. I wish there were more Airbus, GE, RR, Honeywell,etc. insiders on this board. It would be better for it.
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 3:08 pm

Acquiring new and expensive widebodies like the 787 for only the sake of the longest routes, where there is often a lot of ground/downtime in order to fit back into FI's existing waves of traffic, it would be a very poor financial move. That's why FI utilise used 757s and 767s that were mostly paid off years ago, so whether they fly a lot each day or not doesn't matter. Unless FI change their entire schedule so that an aircraft can fly almost continuously KEF- West coast - KEF - somewhere else -KEF, they would be better to utilise cheaper, perhaps other used widebodies like the A330-200, which complement the likes of the new A321XLR.

As for cargo, with fresh fish you want it to arrive fast and still fresh but i wonder could it make sense in the future to send all the cargo via large hubs that already get widebody flights due to passenger demand, and the fish can then go on connecting flights. So for example KEF-YYZ-YEG rather than direct, thus easing the pressure on hold capacity on the longer direct narrowbody flight. Maybe a non-starter as prices would go up for the fish?
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 3:14 pm

opticalilyushin wrote:
Unless FI change their entire schedule so that an aircraft can fly almost continuously KEF- West coast - KEF - somewhere else -KEF


They are actually in the process of doing that this summer with the new hub bank (10-11am departures to Europe, 8-9pm departures to N-America) so West Coast and Florida flights can depart in the old 5pm bank and arrive back in time for the new European bank. Unfortunately, the implementation of it has been marred by the MAX groundings resulting in some cancellations on new frequencies.

I agree with you that new 787s are too expensive for FI to operate in any case. However, as I said earlier in the thread and have said on other threads regarding FI in recent times, decent 2nd hand 787s (as in non-terrible teen) hitting the markets isn't too far away in the future and the 767s can soldier on until that point.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
bennett123
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 3:56 pm

This is a detailed breakdown of their fleet ages taken from Airfleets.

TF-FIA 18.8
TF-FIC 18.9
TF-FIR 25.3
TF-FIG 29.8 Cargo
TF-FIH 29.1 Cargo

TF-FIK 19.4
TF-FIN 21.4
TF-FIO 20.1
TF-FIP 19.2
TF-FIS 24.8
TF-FIT 24.8
TF-FIU 25.1
TF-FIV 18.2
TF-FIW 28.8
TF-FIX 17.2
TF-ISD 28.3
TF-ISF 28.4

TF-ISJ 19.8
TF-ISK 27.9
TF-ISR 20.1
TF-ISS 22.8
TF-ISV 20.1
TF-ISX 19.3
TF-ISY 28.4
TF-LLX 18.7

Stored
TF-ISL 26.4
[b]TF-ISZ 27.5
[/b]

I still have doubts that they can hold on until 2025. Furthermore, even if they can this pre supposes that EIS of 2025 is guaranteed and that they are at the front of the queue.

This sounds like a high risk strategy.

Given that they have 2 aircraft stored, I would also watch to see what happens to them.
 
A3801000
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 4:52 pm

So, the CEO says several times in public that they could go for a all Airbus fleet. But somehow Airliners is able to tell us that the best they can do is wait for a imaginary plane in 2025 and holding on to its grounded MAXs. All the while there is not even a authority to offer this plane and the last product launches were the 787, grounded, the 748, nearly grounded and with big flutter problems, the 767 tanker, with 2 periods where client refused to accept them over quality problems and the MAX, grounded. Yep, sounds like a great business idea guys, must be purely a negotiating tactic. ;)
Some more realism would do our forum some good.
 
musman9853
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 4:57 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
Boeing has dragged their feet on the NMA and Airbus currently has the best alternative available to replace the 757 on longer sectors.

The A321 LR is fine plane. I don't blame Icelandair one bit.


What’s your source to state that Boeing has dragged their feet on NMA? I’m not seeing that at all.


they pushed back launch from paris this year to sometime next year. supposedly ato came this march, but we haven't really gotten any confirmation on that
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
musman9853
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 4:59 pm

scbriml wrote:
Leeham reported last week that no NMA engine will be ready for 2025 EIS, so anyone still selling that idea is smoking some good stuff.


got a link to that story?
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 5:08 pm

musman9853 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Leeham reported last week that no NMA engine will be ready for 2025 EIS, so anyone still selling that idea is smoking some good stuff.


got a link to that story?

There you go.
 
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par13del
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 5:11 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
Negotiating tactic - particularly with the MAX compo and possible new orders being rolled into some very favourable terms.

Would be shocked if they switch tack from Boeing.

If they do they will never have to go through this wrangling again, have you ever heard of any carrier with an all Airbus fleet being "gouged" on price, we hear it on all Boeing fleets all the time, so.....switch and be done with price wrangling.
 
Absynth
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 5:22 pm

Not only is the 2025 timeframe very shaky for the two potential engine suppliers left (RR already retracted their bid), but the original planning was/is based on a situation where the FAA was in their pocket. Not only will the FAA be a totally different animal this time around, the other aviation authorities worldwide would be way more critical as well. And on top of this the whole world is watching on Boeing's and FAA's fingers. There is also a real possibility of shifting priorities to a new NSA with this whole MAX debacle.

Are you telling us none of that will have any impact on the NMA schedule that was already very tight on all accounts, BoeingGuy? Because based on your statements you sound like someone very far removed from the decision chain and just taking internal PR as gospel.
Last edited by Absynth on Wed May 08, 2019 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
musman9853
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 5:31 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Leeham reported last week that no NMA engine will be ready for 2025 EIS, so anyone still selling that idea is smoking some good stuff.


got a link to that story?

There you go.


Thanks!
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 5:44 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I still have doubts that they can hold on until 2025. Furthermore, even if they can this pre supposes that EIS of 2025 is guaranteed and that they are at the front of the queue.

This sounds like a high risk strategy.


This is where commercial terms can help.

The risk associated with operating aging 757s is maintenance risk, both in terms of escalating costs and in terms of schedule unreliability. Those are risks that can, if the motivation is there, mostly be mitigated as part of a transaction. Boeing can either offer to insure 757 maintenance costs beyond a certain level or offer further discounts on NMA to compensate for the need to keep 757s going. FI can keep additional spares on property to deal partially with the inevitable decrease in dispatch reliability as 757s age.

The question is whether the commercial motivation is there to make a deal. With a 2026-27 EIS, Boeing will have every customer of NMA clamoring for the earliest slots. It may be worth throwing Icelandair in with the fish, and losing them to Airbus, if early delivery allows Boeing to secure (say) a 100-frame NMA order from Delta or 70 NMA + 30 787 from American.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 8:53 pm

NeBaNi wrote:
I'm sure Boeing could design and deliver the NMA in 2025 if it really came down to it.


No, they couldn't. We now know that the 737MAX had to be pushed through with greatest of urgency due to longtime 737 customers bailing for the NEO. 6 years for a simple reengine job, and the amount of poor design being uncovered now is astounding. No way they could do a clean-sheet design in that timeframe.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 9:08 pm

I know it's OT, but how many seats were WW blocking when they ran KEF-LAX on the NEO?
@DadCelo
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 9:16 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
I know it's OT, but how many seats were WW blocking when they ran KEF-LAX on the NEO?


I don't think they were blocking that many seats, just light LFs AFAIK. When the flights were full they stopped in Canada.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 10:00 pm

VSMUT wrote:
NeBaNi wrote:
I'm sure Boeing could design and deliver the NMA in 2025 if it really came down to it.


No, they couldn't. We now know that the 737MAX had to be pushed through with greatest of urgency due to longtime 737 customers bailing for the NEO. 6 years for a simple reengine job, and the amount of poor design being uncovered now is astounding. No way they could do a clean-sheet design in that timeframe.


Everybody acts like the clock just started today. What, do you all think the NMA development just started yesterday?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 10:46 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
NeBaNi wrote:
I'm sure Boeing could design and deliver the NMA in 2025 if it really came down to it.


No, they couldn't. We now know that the 737MAX had to be pushed through with greatest of urgency due to longtime 737 customers bailing for the NEO. 6 years for a simple reengine job, and the amount of poor design being uncovered now is astounding. No way they could do a clean-sheet design in that timeframe.


Everybody acts like the clock just started today. What, do you all think the NMA development just started yesterday?


The clock didn't start on the launch date of the 7E7 and 777X either. Took much longer than 6 years regardless of how you twist it. There is zero indication that Boeing has done more groundwork on the proposed NMA concept than for those two.
 
Chemist
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Wed May 08, 2019 11:12 pm

I think Boeing has let the door almost close on the 757 replacement. Most of the customers can't wait for a paper maybe-if-cows-can-fly airplane for 2025.
Since people said the 757 unique niche was too small, Airbus has ruled the day in this segment.
 
WIederling
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Thu May 09, 2019 7:00 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The 757 is quite a robust airplane with a long useable life. Statistics show it lasts longer in service than the A320, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Icelandair continues flying them for 10 more years.


probably less correct than you think.:-)
A320 parted out for spares are more valuable than 757 parted out.
Flying new A320 actually makes a difference.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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seahawk
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Thu May 09, 2019 7:13 am

We do way too little about the NMA to judge if its suitable for FI or not.

It could be 757-300/767 size with very little cargo capability, which would make it less suitable for FI. And if we assume that to be the case, the 767 replacement could be an A330NEO and then the A321 becomes obvious to replace the 752s.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Thu May 09, 2019 7:41 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Everybody acts like the clock just started today. What, do you all think the NMA development just started yesterday?


It doesn't matter when Boeing started their clock, neither CFM nor PW will be ready for a 2025 EIS.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Thu May 09, 2019 11:40 am

A3801000 wrote:
So, the CEO says several times in public that they could go for a all Airbus fleet. But somehow Airliners is able to tell us that the best they can do is wait for a imaginary plane in 2025 and holding on to its grounded MAXs. All the while there is not even a authority to offer this plane and the last product launches were the 787, grounded, the 748, nearly grounded and with big flutter problems, the 767 tanker, with 2 periods where client refused to accept them over quality problems and the MAX, grounded. Yep, sounds like a great business idea guys, must be purely a negotiating tactic. ;)
Some more realism would do our forum some good.


Indeed. The A321neo (and particularly the LR) is really the only viable alternative for FI at this time if they want something that's going to more or less replace their 757's, particularly until such a time Boeing launches the NMA. Even if it was launched today, there's also the question of whether FI are prepared to wait and operate an ageing fleet in the meantime or not, and if the pricing is acceptable.

From where I'm sitting though, my view is that the longer Boeing delays launching, the more the case weakens as some of these airlines will go for the A321neo, LR or even a widebody. Airlines need to make decisions at the appropriate time for their future fleet requirements to ensure they get them in the fleets in a timely manner and can't afford to wait for a paper plane to be launched.

What I will say though is that it still surprises me they didn't go for the A321neo to begin with to at least cover the routes that aren't as reliant on the 757's range, but it is what it is.
 
dc855
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Thu May 09, 2019 12:17 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
A3801000 wrote:

What I will say though is that it still surprises me they didn't go for the A321neo to begin with to at least cover the routes that aren't as reliant on the 757's range, but it is what it is.


Yes, I think it is becoming more and more clear how big a mistake that was. And that was even pretty obvious before the MAX groundings which are seriously hurting the airline. A sizable pool of their pilots are currently on paid a long term vacation with no fixed end date.

A large part of reason Icelandair went with Boeing originally was due to an inbuilt pro Boeing bias within the company. The existence of such a bias isn't strange since Icelandair has had a good relationship with Seattle throughout the years. There were certainly other reasons such as good terms and the fact that Icelandair was expecting the NMA to fly sooner. But I am quite certain that this inbuilt bias clouded the thinking of management at the time. Now there is a new CEO who is obviously challenging all old assumptions within the company.
 
A3801000
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Thu May 09, 2019 12:56 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:

From where I'm sitting though, my view is that the longer Boeing delays launching, the more the case weakens as some of these airlines will go for the A321neo, LR or even a widebody. Airlines need to make decisions at the appropriate time for their future fleet requirements to ensure they get them in the fleets in a timely manner and can't afford to wait for a paper plane to be launched.


I think Boeing wont have a engine ready by 2025.

Boeing74741R wrote:
What I will say though is that it still surprises me they didn't go for the A321neo to begin with to at least cover the routes that aren't as reliant on the 757's range, but it is what it is.


I share your surprise, would love to know why they made that decision.
 
eaa3
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Thu May 09, 2019 2:37 pm

dc855 wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
A3801000 wrote:

What I will say though is that it still surprises me they didn't go for the A321neo to begin with to at least cover the routes that aren't as reliant on the 757's range, but it is what it is.


Yes, I think it is becoming more and more clear how big a mistake that was. And that was even pretty obvious before the MAX groundings which are seriously hurting the airline. A sizable pool of their pilots are currently on paid a long term vacation with no fixed end date.

A large part of reason Icelandair went with Boeing originally was due to an inbuilt pro Boeing bias within the company. The existence of such a bias isn't strange since Icelandair has had a good relationship with Seattle throughout the years. There were certainly other reasons such as good terms and the fact that Icelandair was expecting the NMA to fly sooner. But I am quite certain that this inbuilt bias clouded the thinking of management at the time. Now there is a new CEO who is obviously challenging all old assumptions within the company.


The new CEO has been CFO for the last ten years. He was one of the people that ordered the MAX.
 
dc855
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Thu May 09, 2019 3:01 pm

eaa3 wrote:
dc855 wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:


Yes, I think it is becoming more and more clear how big a mistake that was. And that was even pretty obvious before the MAX groundings which are seriously hurting the airline. A sizable pool of their pilots are currently on paid a long term vacation with no fixed end date.

A large part of reason Icelandair went with Boeing originally was due to an inbuilt pro Boeing bias within the company. The existence of such a bias isn't strange since Icelandair has had a good relationship with Seattle throughout the years. There were certainly other reasons such as good terms and the fact that Icelandair was expecting the NMA to fly sooner. But I am quite certain that this inbuilt bias clouded the thinking of management at the time. Now there is a new CEO who is obviously challenging all old assumptions within the company.


The new CEO has been CFO for the last ten years. He was one of the people that ordered the MAX.


True. I think however that his upgrade in status and new people he has brought into the company has led to a change in thinking.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Thu May 09, 2019 3:35 pm

eaa3 wrote:
dc855 wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:


Yes, I think it is becoming more and more clear how big a mistake that was. And that was even pretty obvious before the MAX groundings which are seriously hurting the airline. A sizable pool of their pilots are currently on paid a long term vacation with no fixed end date.

A large part of reason Icelandair went with Boeing originally was due to an inbuilt pro Boeing bias within the company. The existence of such a bias isn't strange since Icelandair has had a good relationship with Seattle throughout the years. There were certainly other reasons such as good terms and the fact that Icelandair was expecting the NMA to fly sooner. But I am quite certain that this inbuilt bias clouded the thinking of management at the time. Now there is a new CEO who is obviously challenging all old assumptions within the company.


The new CEO has been CFO for the last ten years. He was one of the people that ordered the MAX.


As a disclaimer, I know Bogi personally so my opinion may be biased. However, he is a number cruncher first and foremost so I think he is just the CEO Icelandair needs right now. Whatever decision will be made will be purely an objective one, and hopefully the right one.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Thu May 09, 2019 4:39 pm

bennett123 wrote:
This is a detailed breakdown of their fleet ages taken from Airfleets.

TF-FIA 18.8
TF-FIC 18.9
TF-FIR 25.3
TF-FIG 29.8 Cargo
TF-FIH 29.1 Cargo

TF-FIK 19.4
TF-FIN 21.4
TF-FIO 20.1
TF-FIP 19.2
TF-FIS 24.8
TF-FIT 24.8
TF-FIU 25.1
TF-FIV 18.2
TF-FIW 28.8
TF-FIX 17.2
TF-ISD 28.3
TF-ISF 28.4

TF-ISJ 19.8
TF-ISK 27.9
TF-ISR 20.1
TF-ISS 22.8
TF-ISV 20.1
TF-ISX 19.3
TF-ISY 28.4
TF-LLX 18.7

Stored
TF-ISL 26.4
[b]TF-ISZ 27.5
[/b]

I still have doubts that they can hold on until 2025. Furthermore, even if they can this pre supposes that EIS of 2025 is guaranteed and that they are at the front of the queue.

This sounds like a high risk strategy.

Given that they have 2 aircraft stored, I would also watch to see what happens to them.


Also, D4-CCG (still in FI colors even though flying for VR) is 29 years old. The 737 MAX was intended as a replacement, but that has had problems.

As for slots, FI could get slots from lessors if an agreement for a lease to own deal can be reached, since FI likely wants planes for 25 years at least and an end of lease buyout would be likely (the MAX frames are being funded via sale and leaseback or Japanese operating leases with call options (which counts as financing).

FI along with AC are in unique situations: they operate the MAX and never flew NGs.
 
fjhc
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Fri May 10, 2019 9:24 am

A321LRs (and the hypothetical XLR) could be great for FI. Airbus could get a big coup by converting FI to Airbus- it's not a big order, but they're a well respected airline who push their 757s to the edges of their capabilities, and are well known for it. The MAX was always said to be for expansion- mostly KEF-Europe routes (I saw one at Manchester, not long before the Ethiopian crash, while boarding my flight to Berlin)

I think a mix of A320neos for less dense routes (off season destinations, new smaller routes) and A321LRs to replace the bulk of the 757s would work well for them, with either some used (cheap!) A330s or A330-800s for the 767s and busier routes. People have talked about the flight deck commonality between the 757 and 767- this doesn't seem to be a problem for Icelandair if they were flying 737MAXs, especially when the A32x and A330 have a lot of commonality and only a short conversion course between them.
 
smartplane
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Fri May 10, 2019 11:27 am

Both A & B boost retrospective credits to encourage specific behaviour, especially complementary orders. For example, if the customer takes as cash, the value of the retrospective credit will be discounted to say 80%. If applied as payment to the existing order, and/or held on account with the OEM for future purchases, 100% (the base value). If applied to promoted services, like training, or parts where the air frame OEM earns retrospective credits in turn from another OEM, say 110%. Or if another model is ordered, especially one where sales are weak, or wanted during a specific timeframe to fill production gaps, perhaps even 120%.

Boeing has a temporary problem, because MAX / 787 pairing is their most successful, so presumably sales announced during the grounding have been as a result of boosted credits / reduced margins.

Ditto for Airbus, with higher retrospective credits on A320 / A350 family sales if credits are used for the A330.
 
EChid
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Fri May 10, 2019 3:14 pm

smartplane wrote:
Ditto for Airbus, with higher retrospective credits on A320 / A350 family sales if credits are used for the A330.

And this would probably be how the 330NEO order happened for EK.
 
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terrificturk
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Tue May 14, 2019 2:54 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
:rotfl:

Bad couple of years? Sure. Similar shape to WOW, zero cash? Good one!



Don't fall over your arrogance, before your ignorance hits you in your face.
 
marcogr12
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Tue May 14, 2019 4:18 pm

Now that QR announced retirement of their A330s ,would they be suitable as a cheaper 2nd hand replacement of the FI 767s?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
IADCA
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Tue May 14, 2019 4:27 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
Now that QR announced retirement of their A330s ,would they be suitable as a cheaper 2nd hand replacement of the FI 767s?


Anything is possible, but I'd think that they'd stick with the 767s if they're sticking with 757s because of the commonality. And the 767s aren't really the age/maintenance issue. More than half of the 752s (if you count the cargo fleet and TF-FII/D4-CCG, which they still own, fly, and maintain) are over 25. The oldest of the four 767s just hit 22.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Tue May 14, 2019 4:31 pm

terrificturk wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
:rotfl:

Bad couple of years? Sure. Similar shape to WOW, zero cash? Good one!



Don't fall over your arrogance, before your ignorance hits you in your face.


Saying FI isn't the same as WOW is in no way arrogant, although FI most certainly does have challenges ahead of them they're nowhere close to being on the brink of bankruptcy. If nothing changes for a few years and the losses keep piling up it's a different question of course, but there's no reason to think FI won't make a turn for the better in this new competitive environment where there isn't another airline dragging fares down the drain with below-cost tickets.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
LG777
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Tue May 14, 2019 4:41 pm

IADCA wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
Now that QR announced retirement of their A330s ,would they be suitable as a cheaper 2nd hand replacement of the FI 767s?


Anything is possible, but I'd think that they'd stick with the 767s if they're sticking with 757s because of the commonality. And the 767s aren't really the age/maintenance issue. More than half of the 752s (if you count the cargo fleet and TF-FII/D4-CCG, which they still own, fly, and maintain) are over 25. The oldest of the four 767s just hit 22.


A320 and A330 family have also some sort of commonality in a sense you can have the same pilot cross-certified for both families If they go the A321 route.

A few second-hand A330 would help to keep commonality and reduce stress on the cash flow as that's a lot of aircraft to be replaced to switch to all Airbus.
 
IADCA
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Tue May 14, 2019 6:20 pm

LG777 wrote:
IADCA wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
Now that QR announced retirement of their A330s ,would they be suitable as a cheaper 2nd hand replacement of the FI 767s?


Anything is possible, but I'd think that they'd stick with the 767s if they're sticking with 757s because of the commonality. And the 767s aren't really the age/maintenance issue. More than half of the 752s (if you count the cargo fleet and TF-FII/D4-CCG, which they still own, fly, and maintain) are over 25. The oldest of the four 767s just hit 22.


A320 and A330 family have also some sort of commonality in a sense you can have the same pilot cross-certified for both families If they go the A321 route.

A few second-hand A330 would help to keep commonality and reduce stress on the cash flow as that's a lot of aircraft to be replaced to switch to all Airbus.


"Some sort of commonality" is a far cry from a single type rating.
 
by738
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Tue May 14, 2019 6:28 pm

where are these A321LRs coming from? who has slots or lease builds available for years?
Sounds like a pipe dream in the short term and a Boeing frightener
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Tue May 14, 2019 6:39 pm

Considering all Boeing has to offer at the moment is a plane that is currently grounded worldwide this is probably a good idea. The A321NEO and A321NEOLR are fantastic planes that can fit well with Icelandair's network. It's not a fantastic 757 replacement but considering Boeing has no NMA aircraft at the moment this isn't a bad path to follow.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
Bricktop
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Tue May 14, 2019 11:28 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
As a disclaimer, I know Bogi personally so my opinion may be biased. However, he is a number cruncher first and foremost so I think he is just the CEO Icelandair needs right now. Whatever decision will be made will be purely an objective one, and hopefully the right one.

I bow to your personal assessment. Unless he stays with Boeing, and then there will many here who will smear him. To the fanboy, "objectivity" means zip if the wrong OEM wins..
 
Bricktop
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Tue May 14, 2019 11:32 pm

par13del wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
Negotiating tactic - particularly with the MAX compo and possible new orders being rolled into some very favourable terms.

Would be shocked if they switch tack from Boeing.

If they do they will never have to go through this wrangling again, have you ever heard of any carrier with an all Airbus fleet being "gouged" on price, we hear it on all Boeing fleets all the time, so.....switch and be done with price wrangling.

In the (hopefully now distant) past, a few well-placed bribes hushed such talk. Now that's off the table, and not under it, we'll see.
 
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MaxiAir
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:36 pm

Does anyone have access to Ch-aviation and can enlighten us on this new Article?

Icelandair likely to change Boeing fleet to Airbus - report

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... bus-report
Flown on - 306,313,318,319,320,321,332,333,343,345,346,359,35K,388, 712,733,734,735,736,73G,738,744,748,752,753,763,77E,77L,77W, 788, 789, M11, M1F, M88, CR7,CR9, E35,E45,E75,E90,E95, AR1,AR8, DHT,DH1,DH4, and some more ;)
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:52 pm

If correct, probably a sign that either NMA is slipping further or Boeing told FI "sorry, bigger customers are likely to take the delivery dates you wanted."
 
SEU
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:06 pm

MaxiAir wrote:
Does anyone have access to Ch-aviation and can enlighten us on this new Article?

Icelandair likely to change Boeing fleet to Airbus - report

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... bus-report


For $799 a year, no.
 
N766UA
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:35 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

What’s your source to state that Boeing has dragged their feet on NMA? I’m not seeing that at all.


We also don't see the NMA, so that should be your evidence.


It’s supposed to enter into service in 2025.


LOL a clean sheet new jet in 5.5 years? Get lost. Boeing can’t even get a tanker based on a 30 year old airframe to fly in under a decade.
 
TranscendZac
Posts: 138
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:00 am

Makes perfect sense. Quite frankly a fleet of A320NEO, A321LR, and possibly A321XLR for newer longer range routes and maybe a few A338s for higher capacity routes would be a great fleet for them...from my arm chair CEO view.
Zac
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Icelandair considers A321neo and possible all-Airbus fleet

Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:33 am

TranscendZac wrote:
Makes perfect sense. Quite frankly a fleet of A320NEO, A321LR, and possibly A321XLR for newer longer range routes and maybe a few A338s for higher capacity routes would be a great fleet for them...from my arm chair CEO view.


Pretty much agreed, however, depending on ACT config inside the hold the XLR is likely a better option than the LR. I was wondering about the A338 and 339, but given some of Icelandair's longest routes have traditionally had long layovers to work with their inbound flight waves, a used A332/333 fleet may be a better low cost investment. New expensive planes that spend a lot of time on the ground is not a good business model. That being said the airline's flight schedule this summer seems to be much more efficient with 2 flight waves a few hours apart. Who knows :)

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