mia
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Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 10:48 am

Orthodox couple sues Spirit Airlines, contending anti-Semitic flight attendant

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 24544.html

The article includes hilarious quotes like, all they "wanted a peaceful flight to Fort Lauderdale and to enjoy the start of their family vacation." not to make light of their "serious" offense but I've never had a pack flight on Spirit, ever.

The article basically quotes the plaintiff attorney's blog post on the lawsuit and is describes a kafkaesque flight emblematic of Spirit's (past?) management failures the company is trying to correct.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 11:31 am

They don't have to be worried, a lot of pax are offended by airlines everyday, whatever their religious belief.

But hey, they are jews so the FA is clearly antisemitic.
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N983AN
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 12:19 pm

LaunchDetected wrote:
They don't have to be worried, a lot of pax are offended by airlines everyday, whatever their religious belief.

But hey, they are jews so the FA is clearly antisemitic.


While many in the western framework see Judaism as simply a religion, it is a peoplehood, ethnicity and cultural heritage. Also worth recognizing the FBIs own hate crime statistics show Jews as the number one target of hate crimes.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 12:46 pm

N983AN wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
They don't have to be worried, a lot of pax are offended by airlines everyday, whatever their religious belief.

But hey, they are jews so the FA is clearly antisemitic.


While many in the western framework see Judaism as simply a religion, it is a peoplehood, ethnicity and cultural heritage. Also worth recognizing the FBIs own hate crime statistics show Jews as the number one target of hate crimes.


Oh, here we go again...
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santi319
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 12:50 pm

Did anyone read the story.. its... something else.... can’t believe the media even published that.....

I am practically typing blind because my eyes rolled back so far they are behind my head.
 
bennett123
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 12:55 pm

Apparently, they did not even hear the comment, it was heard by an un named third party.
 
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phlsfo
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 2:21 pm

That story seems to be embellished quite a bit by their counsel.

However, assuming the facts about what transpired are true, they have a legitimate complaint against the carrier. They followed the rules of the car seat, the airline pushed back but it got resolved by a CRO (even though I don't believe this falls under ACAA rules, but I could be wrong), and then the FA went on a power trip and didn't allow it. The captain should have been involved (maybe he/she was, I don't know and the article doesn't specify) and made the decision, but regardless they didn't follow correct procedure.

We also do not know what the attitude of the passengers were like and if they were causing a scene during this whole thing. I have dealt with similar situations while working TLV flights and you see some interesting personalities, to say the least.

Not enough info to make a full judgement.
 
Exeiowa
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 2:21 pm

The basic problem as I see it, is there is no requirement for people to be treated civilly, but there are laws against protected classes. So what happens is that people reach into these areas for redress, as the only available option. Then we have the associated problem that people have of playing some kind of victim.

Often these cases are sympathetic, but often not going to remefiated because the contracts in place are pretty heavily in one party over the other, so you just have to suck it up. Unless you have access to a law that trumpts civil contracts, hence the frequent appeal to discrimination law, simply because its your one shot of actually being made whole because you are dealing with WORD REDACTED. This then gives protracted classes a bad name, because well yeah, but the real problem is not that this Jewish couple has a possible legal remedy its that everyone else does not.

Technically I am a protected class in the US according to many policies in the corporate world for being British under national origin. I am constantly mocked for this and one day if I decided I have had enough WORDS REDACTED. For the longest time the company had anti bullying and discrimination policies written about protected classses. The problem bullying and harassment in general was just fine as long as your an equal opportunity WORD REDACTED. This is clearly absurd and this is what needs to change to make all unacceptable behavior unacceptable not only against certain people.
 
jco613
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 3:29 pm

Well this one is an interesting case. If it is true, they have absolutely got a case here.

And if it’s not, I had a great laugh reading the article. I flew spirit a few weeks ago on this exact route and I had a great experience. Great crew, ground and in flight. It was actually one of the more enjoyable flight experiences I have had in a long time.
 
HBJZA
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 4:16 pm

Nowadays passengers can’t handle when crew say no to anything. The part with lack of oxy mask is true. It’s very usual to have the correct number of mask above certain row and 1 extra above some others to accomodate infants. Same with car seat, some airlines may refuse car seats for various specific reasons.
These pax being upset because of the refusal most probably were arguing like crazy, so usual.
And now bringing up antisemitism/racism is just ridiculous but also so common at present time.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 6:43 pm

If the airline and the FAA say the car seat is approved, then can a flight attendant say, "not on my airplane?"

If the conflict manager says the car seat is okay in the cabin, then can a flight attendant say, "not on my airplane?"

Seriously, I'm asking legitimately - can a flight attendant overrule a supervisor?

Obviously we don't have all the facts, so no judgement is being made on my part - but in reading the article, I'm seeing that this couple did their homework, bought an extra seat for their infant, bought an approved seat carrier, and then were told no even after the conflict manager sided with them. If their story holds up in a court of law, then I think Spirit needs to codify procedures about car seats and other acceptable equipment, including what a flight attendant can and cannot object to on their plane.

Once again, this is only IF their story holds true. I want to hear Spirit's version of events, as well as the witnesses on the plane before any conclusion is reached.
 
VS11
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 7:54 pm

It was a torture to read this poorly written article. But I can’t imagine the airline blacklisting them for life because they brought their own car seat and/or husband switching his seat. This story so far is missing some key events.
 
Elementalism
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 8:04 pm

I'd suspect more to the story. Airlines dont ban people based on something as benign as a carseat.
 
tsbooker
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 8:19 pm

As a person of Jewish faith myself, I think that the couple ought to say Mazel Tov and La'haim and be grateful that this abomination of an "airline" decided to ban them for life. Their existence in the travel universe just got exponentially better.

Imagine if this had been an African American couple? Between Ben Crump and Al Sharpton airports up and down the North East would be shut down with protesters.

A very pathetic and unfortunate symbolism of the state of affairs in the US in this day and age.
 
jersey777
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 9:22 pm

phlsfo wrote:
That story seems to be embellished quite a bit by their counsel.

However, assuming the facts about what transpired are true, they have a legitimate complaint against the carrier. They followed the rules of the car seat, the airline pushed back but it got resolved by a CRO (even though I don't believe this falls under ACAA rules, but I could be wrong), and then the FA went on a power trip and didn't allow it. The captain should have been involved (maybe he/she was, I don't know and the article doesn't specify) and made the decision, but regardless they didn't follow correct procedure.

We also do not know what the attitude of the passengers were like and if they were causing a scene during this whole thing. I have dealt with similar situations while working TLV flights and you see some interesting personalities, to say the least.

Not enough info to make a full judgement.



Not enough info to make a judgement but you choose to believe the flight attendant was on a "power trip". Selective assumptions of what you believe truly happened.
 
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stl07
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 9:25 pm

tsbooker wrote:

Imagine if this had been an African American couple? Between Ben Crump and Al Sharpton airports up and down the North East would be shut down with protesters.


STOP.


In criticizing racism, you were racist yourself. Shows your true colors.
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
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ER757
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 11:12 pm

When I read the article, I was reminded of a Seinfeld episode where Uncle Leo called the cook at the diner and Anti-Semite because his hamburger was overcooked.
Would love to hear the other side of this story because it's a fool's errand to try and pass judgement just hearing the plaintiffs' side. It's entirely possible that they were in fact mis-treated, but it seems like blaming it on antisemitism is a stretch - just my :twocents:
 
SteelChair
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 11:23 pm

Sadly, they didn't even mention the use of the word "retarded." As someone with a family member with a cognitive deficit, I can tell you that many in the special needs community find that word deeply offensive. The use of that word together with the anti-semitic context shows an incredible coarseness on the part of the flight attendant. How can a customer facing employee engage in such behavior and not expect to be called on it?
Last edited by SteelChair on Wed May 08, 2019 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Pudelhund
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Wed May 08, 2019 11:31 pm

This is the same story that was posted here several months ago. I think the couple is full of shit. Are we really supposed to believe that a flight attendant operating NY-FL traffic just happens, out of the blue, to be antisemitic to these particular jews? These flights probably see tons of jews every day.
 
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stl07
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Thu May 09, 2019 4:20 am

Pudelhund wrote:
This is the same story that was posted here several months ago. I think the couple is full of shit. Are we really supposed to believe that a flight attendant operating NY-FL traffic just happens, out of the blue, to be antisemitic to these particular jews? These flights probably see tons of jews every day.

While I don't know the facts, NY-FL would be akin to an FA commenting about Mexicans on MKE-GDL. Very unlikely.
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Antarius
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Thu May 09, 2019 6:27 am

Im going with Hanlons razor still.

While I've had a handful of people be obviously racist to me (calling me words to my face), most of the time I assume people being shitty are just being shitty.
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Nomadd
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Thu May 09, 2019 6:32 am

tsbooker wrote:
As a person of Jewish faith myself, I think that the couple ought to say Mazel Tov and La'haim and be grateful that this abomination of an "airline" decided to ban them for life. Their existence in the travel universe just got exponentially better.

Imagine if this had been an African American couple? Between Ben Crump and Al Sharpton airports up and down the North East would be shut down with protesters.

A very pathetic and unfortunate symbolism of the state of affairs in the US in this day and age.

You mean people who would never consider finding out what actually happened convicting someone on the basis of a poorly written piece of nonsense like that article? I agree.
 
greendot
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Thu May 09, 2019 7:13 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
If the airline and the FAA say the car seat is approved, then can a flight attendant say, "not on my airplane?"

If the conflict manager says the car seat is okay in the cabin, then can a flight attendant say, "not on my airplane?"

Seriously, I'm asking legitimately - can a flight attendant overrule a supervisor?

Obviously we don't have all the facts, so no judgement is being made on my part - but in reading the article, I'm seeing that this couple did their homework, bought an extra seat for their infant, bought an approved seat carrier, and then were told no even after the conflict manager sided with them. If their story holds up in a court of law, then I think Spirit needs to codify procedures about car seats and other acceptable equipment, including what a flight attendant can and cannot object to on their plane.

Once again, this is only IF their story holds true. I want to hear Spirit's version of events, as well as the witnesses on the plane before any conclusion is reached.


FAs don't have actual authority. The PIC does. The FA can disagree but the PIC can simply get a replacement FA. 14 CFR does not give FAs any authority. Companies may have policies but they are merely policies.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Thu May 09, 2019 12:29 pm

greendot wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
If the airline and the FAA say the car seat is approved, then can a flight attendant say, "not on my airplane?"

If the conflict manager says the car seat is okay in the cabin, then can a flight attendant say, "not on my airplane?"

Seriously, I'm asking legitimately - can a flight attendant overrule a supervisor?

Obviously we don't have all the facts, so no judgement is being made on my part - but in reading the article, I'm seeing that this couple did their homework, bought an extra seat for their infant, bought an approved seat carrier, and then were told no even after the conflict manager sided with them. If their story holds up in a court of law, then I think Spirit needs to codify procedures about car seats and other acceptable equipment, including what a flight attendant can and cannot object to on their plane.

Once again, this is only IF their story holds true. I want to hear Spirit's version of events, as well as the witnesses on the plane before any conclusion is reached.


FAs don't have actual authority. The PIC does. The FA can disagree but the PIC can simply get a replacement FA. 14 CFR does not give FAs any authority. Companies may have policies but they are merely policies.

Unfortunately, there are too many examples of FA's stepping over that and getting passengers kicked out for no reasons.
 
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phlsfo
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Thu May 09, 2019 1:04 pm

jersey777 wrote:
phlsfo wrote:
That story seems to be embellished quite a bit by their counsel.

However, assuming the facts about what transpired are true, they have a legitimate complaint against the carrier. They followed the rules of the car seat, the airline pushed back but it got resolved by a CRO (even though I don't believe this falls under ACAA rules, but I could be wrong), and then the FA went on a power trip and didn't allow it. The captain should have been involved (maybe he/she was, I don't know and the article doesn't specify) and made the decision, but regardless they didn't follow correct procedure.

We also do not know what the attitude of the passengers were like and if they were causing a scene during this whole thing. I have dealt with similar situations while working TLV flights and you see some interesting personalities, to say the least.

Not enough info to make a full judgement.



Not enough info to make a judgement but you choose to believe the flight attendant was on a "power trip". Selective assumptions of what you believe truly happened.


I guess I didn't phrase it correctly. Assuming what was said in the complaint is all true, then yes it does sound like the FA went on a power trip.

However, we do not have all the information as to what happened so overall we can't make a judgement as to what actually happened.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Thu May 09, 2019 1:05 pm

Theres no way those are all the facts to this. The article was ridiculously one sided.
Religion is the root of evil...
 
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Aesma
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Thu May 09, 2019 1:53 pm

It's possible the initial events were caused by airline employees over the seat, after that if the passengers become aggressive, yell, make a scene, what is supposed to happen in your opinion ? Removing them is the only way to diffuse the incident.

When that happens and the airline know it is partly at fault, it will rebook the passengers, offer them some compensation, and be done with it.

Here, instead, they banned the couple for life. So it seems the airline thought it was not at fault, or that the passengers were way over the line.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Spirit sued because allegedly of anti-semetic FA

Thu May 09, 2019 3:11 pm

stl07 wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:
Are we really supposed to believe that a flight attendant operating NY-FL traffic just happens, out of the blue, to be antisemitic to these particular jews? These flights probably see tons of jews every day.

While I don't know the facts, NY-FL would be akin to an FA commenting about Mexicans on MKE-GDL. Very unlikely.


These comments lol.
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