coolfish1103
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China Airlines to lease/buy up to 30 A321neo’s

Wed May 08, 2019 10:56 am

China Airlines will be leasing 14 A321NEO to replace it's existing Boeing 737-800 fleet.

Originally the decision is to be made between A320/NEO or MAX 8/MAX 9, but the recent crashes of the MAX has led to the NEO winning.

In Mandarin: https://www.chinatimes.com/realtimenews ... 0410?chdtv

Currently CI operates 19 Boeing 737-800, additional leases/orders should be expected.
Last edited by qf789 on Fri May 10, 2019 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
coolfish1103
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 12:14 pm

According to Apply Daily, an additional 11 A321NEO will be purchased with 5 on options.  Therefore, it will be totaled to 30 including options.

On top of that, a MOU of 3 firm order of 77F and 3 additional options also surfaced.

In Mandarin, https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realtime/20190508/1563493

So it will be 14 leased + 11 purchased + 5 options = 30 Airbus A321NEO to replace 19 Boeing 737-800.
 
juliuswong
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 12:17 pm

Time to poach staff from BR or those who used to work with GE.
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trex8
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 1:59 pm

3 +3 777F to replace 18 744Fs??? More orders are coming down the road, hopefully for 747-8F!

CI official press release
https://www.china-airlines.com/us/en/di ... 20190508-1
https://www.china-airlines.com/us/en/di ... 20190508-2

"As a continuation of the new generation cabin products already provided by China Airlines 777-300ER and A350-900, brand new cabin designs will be implemented in the new narrowbody aircraft, including seating configuration and in-flight entertainment system. This way China Airlines branding will remain seamless throughout the whole fleet, providing diversified and advanced services to further enhance passenger experience. (2019/05/08"

Another way of saying lie flat J in A321???



I can see AE going A220 now to replace E190. IT maybe getting A321 if they want upgauge or A220 if they downgauge.

Now what will happen to the A330 replacement? Earliest birds have had 2 heavy checks already, doubtful they will get a 3rd and leased ones will be returning in early part 2020s.
 
coolfish1103
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 3:14 pm

trex8 wrote:
"As a continuation of the new generation cabin products already provided by China Airlines 777-300ER and A350-900, brand new cabin designs will be implemented in the new narrowbody aircraft, including seating configuration and in-flight entertainment system. This way China Airlines branding will remain seamless throughout the whole fleet, providing diversified and advanced services to further enhance passenger experience. (2019/05/08"

Another way of saying lie flat J in A321???


I highly doubt that's happening... but if it does that will be a big plus.
 
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flee
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 3:30 pm

Congratulations to China Airlines and Airbus - I am sure that the A321Neo will provide sterling service. Is there any indication what engines are chosen?

I think the small B777F order will indicate that they are slowly replacing their B744F fleet. So do expect more orders in the future!
 
AirwayBill
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 3:34 pm

Excellent news.

Soon, Taiwanese skies will be filled with A321s. EVA already have theirs, the recently launched Starlux have some neos coming up, and now Dynasty orders a bunch of them for fleet renewal and expansion. If FAT joined the party (they ordered the MAX not so long ago), that would be a very good looking quartet.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 3:58 pm

AirwayBill wrote:
Excellent news.

Soon, Taiwanese skies will be filled with A321s. EVA already have theirs, the recently launched Starlux have some neos coming up, and now Dynasty orders a bunch of them for fleet renewal and expansion. If FAT joined the party (they ordered the MAX not so long ago), that would be a very good looking quartet.


Meh...FAT should just fly their Mad Dogs for another 10 years (Too bad the authority won't let them do that).

BTW, Transasia had a fair number of A321 also (along with A320). Now that CI "switch" camp on narrowbody, that does leave FAT as the sole possible MAX operator.

Otherwise, A321neo is definitely a good choice - certainly it'll replace the A330 on some regional routes (Mainly to secondary mainland PRC, but perhaps a few SE Asia routes also and maybe a few lower load HKG frequency).
 
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Dutchy
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 5:02 pm

coolfish1103 wrote:
Originally the decision is to be made between A320/NEO or MAX 8/MAX 9, but the recent crashes of the MAX has led to the NEO winning.


Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 5:22 pm

Dutchy wrote:
coolfish1103 wrote:
Originally the decision is to be made between A320/NEO or MAX 8/MAX 9, but the recent crashes of the MAX has led to the NEO winning.


Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.


I read the article, it's definitely media speculation rather than the "truth".
 
trex8
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 8:44 pm

LEAP or Purepower engines????
CI have been maintaining CFM since the mid90s with the leased A320 and 734 back then. Or would getting GTF allow them a chance to take the GTF mx in the area.
 
trex8
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 8:48 pm

Dutchy wrote:
coolfish1103 wrote:
Originally the decision is to be made between A320/NEO or MAX 8/MAX 9, but the recent crashes of the MAX has led to the NEO winning.


Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.

The technical/economic decision between a Neo and a Max especially a A321 vs Max9/10 is probably so close anything from delivery positions, slight finance rate differences, or bad PR/uncertainty about deliveries could easily swing things any direction.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 8:50 pm

Dutchy wrote:
coolfish1103 wrote:
Originally the decision is to be made between A320/NEO or MAX 8/MAX 9, but the recent crashes of the MAX has led to the NEO winning.


Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.


If the final decision was close between the NEO and the MAX, and they factor public perception into it (wether valid or not) than I could see the MAX crashes vaguely ~*leading*~ to the NEO winning.
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anonms
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 11:06 pm

Dutchy wrote:
coolfish1103 wrote:
Originally the decision is to be made between A320/NEO or MAX 8/MAX 9, but the recent crashes of the MAX has led to the NEO winning.


Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.


Maybe not, but this is an airline where people will still use their accident history as a reason to avoid them, even if it has been over a decade since their last incident.
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itisi
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Wed May 08, 2019 11:38 pm

Excellent news, can't wait to see them.

As for the complete mess with the NEO, mainly the fact Boeing knew there was an issue and tried to keep it internal... Let's see how many orders are kept, changed, cancelled.
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)
 
AirwayBill
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Thu May 09, 2019 5:00 am

gatibosgru wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
coolfish1103 wrote:
Originally the decision is to be made between A320/NEO or MAX 8/MAX 9, but the recent crashes of the MAX has led to the NEO winning.


Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.


If the final decision was close between the NEO and the MAX, and they factor public perception into it (wether valid or not) than I could see the MAX crashes vaguely ~*leading*~ to the NEO winning.


Agreed. A MAX order by a Taiwanese airline at this present moment would easily turn into a PR disaster for the company. CI’s public image would take a big hit. This is a culture where losing face is probably the worst that could happen, so even if the MAX had the edge economically, there’s a good portion of chances that they wouldn’t take the risk of facing media (and thus public) backlash by ordering a grounded plane that has been constantly labelled as a death trap by media outlets for months.

Aviation is most of the time, but not always about pure, cold, economic decisions.
 
c933103
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Thu May 09, 2019 5:27 am

The A321neo decision include 14 lease + 11 firm order of purchase + 5 options, which bring to a total of 30 aircraft.
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c933103
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Thu May 09, 2019 5:30 am

trex8 wrote:
3 +3 777F to replace 18 744Fs??? More orders are coming down the road, hopefully for 747-8F!

They do mentioned that those 777F are for replacing "some" older 747F currently in service, not all
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c933103
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Thu May 09, 2019 5:32 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
coolfish1103 wrote:
Originally the decision is to be made between A320/NEO or MAX 8/MAX 9, but the recent crashes of the MAX has led to the NEO winning.


Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.


I read the article, it's definitely media speculation rather than the "truth".

They quoted opinion from "industrial experts". No way they would want the bad PR of buying Boeing 737 Max now.
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Dutchy
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Thu May 09, 2019 5:39 am

c933103 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.


I read the article, it's definitely media speculation rather than the "truth".

They quoted opinion from "industrial experts". No way they would want the bad PR of buying Boeing 737 Max now.


Buying the MAX now is something different, then that this is the lead reason for buying the NEO. The MAX will be fine in a few months, so if they had selected the MAX, they could easily go to Boeing and ask to reserve slots for them and order them in due time formally.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
c933103
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Thu May 09, 2019 5:59 am

Dutchy wrote:
c933103 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:

I read the article, it's definitely media speculation rather than the "truth".

They quoted opinion from "industrial experts". No way they would want the bad PR of buying Boeing 737 Max now.


Buying the MAX now is something different, then that this is the lead reason for buying the NEO. The MAX will be fine in a few months, so if they had selected the MAX, they could easily go to Boeing and ask to reserve slots for them and order them in due time formally.

Let me translate the whole relevant section from the report:

China airlines started evaluating their narrowbody replacement since year 2013 but there were many internal dispute that cannot be settled within the airlines decision making process thus the decision was delayed till now.
According to analysis from people in the industry, of the two major aircraft manufacturer Boeing and Airbus, Boeing have a long term cooperation relationship with BR, if CI continues to stick to Boeing then it can't get much advantage so it is obvious that CI should enhance their relationship with AIrbus, and the 737 Max is now facing big problem, even if conflicts are to be resolved, people will still find it scary, so it is not unexpected for A321neo to win.
And then according to people who are related to the decision, it is said that considering the relationship between Taiwan and America and also the trade deficit between the two countries, it is obviously a choice for the to buy aircraft from Boeing, however the embarrassing situation is that two 737 Max just crashed which caused doubt in its airworthiness and have also caused some other airlines to cancel their 737 Max. if CI ignore all these and decide to buy 737 Max now then it will be seen as not taking people's life seriously and will also cause distrust.
And then according to workers in the aviation field, the CI narrowbody decision have been delayed for a really long time, the 737Max accident can be said as giving them a good chance to solve the headache of deciding which plane to pick.

I guess the last person's opinion reflect the situation most accurately here. They have spent so many times thinking about which aircraft to buy yet because of different opinion in the company they keep failing to reach a discussion on the matter, so when the circumstances provided a convenient and obvious reason for them to ditch Boeing they would just use the circumstances on top of all other reasons that they have discussed internally to support their decision to go for Airbus instead of Boeing.
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masA380
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Thu May 09, 2019 6:07 am

c933103 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
c933103 wrote:
They quoted opinion from "industrial experts". No way they would want the bad PR of buying Boeing 737 Max now.


Buying the MAX now is something different, then that this is the lead reason for buying the NEO. The MAX will be fine in a few months, so if they had selected the MAX, they could easily go to Boeing and ask to reserve slots for them and order them in due time formally.

Let me translate the whole relevant section from the report:

China airlines started evaluating their narrowbody replacement since year 2013 but there were many internal dispute that cannot be settled within the airlines decision making process thus the decision was delayed till now.
According to analysis from people in the industry, of the two major aircraft manufacturer Boeing and Airbus, Boeing have a long term cooperation relationship with BR, if CI continues to stick to Boeing then it can't get much advantage so it is obvious that CI should enhance their relationship with AIrbus, and the 737 Max is now facing big problem, even if conflicts are to be resolved, people will still find it scary, so it is not unexpected for A321neo to win.
And then according to people who are related to the decision, it is said that considering the relationship between Taiwan and America and also the trade deficit between the two countries, it is obviously a choice for the to buy aircraft from Boeing, however the embarrassing situation is that two 737 Max just crashed which caused doubt in its airworthiness and have also caused some other airlines to cancel their 737 Max. if CI ignore all these and decide to buy 737 Max now then it will be seen as not taking people's life seriously and will also cause distrust.
And then according to workers in the aviation field, the CI narrowbody decision have been delayed for a really long time, the 737Max accident can be said as giving them a good chance to solve the headache of deciding which plane to pick.

I guess the last person's opinion reflect the situation most accurately here. They have spent so many times thinking about which aircraft to buy yet because of different opinion in the company they keep failing to reach a discussion on the matter, so when the circumstances provided a convenient and obvious reason for them to ditch Boeing they would just use the circumstances on top of all other reasons that they have discussed internally to support their decision to go for Airbus instead of Boeing.

Too bad for Boeing then, even though the amount of the aircraft ordered is not that significant.
 
AirwayBill
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Thu May 09, 2019 6:38 am

masA380 wrote:
Too bad for Boeing then, even though the amount of the aircraft ordered is not that significant.


Too bad for them indeed, China Airlines had remained faithful to Boeing's narrowbody from the 70s to the 2000s, from the -200 series, to the Classic, and the NG variant.

Even though a few dozens of planes might seem small compared to today's 100+ mega orders, Boeing has seemingly lost a historical 737 customer.
 
coolfish1103
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Thu May 09, 2019 6:42 am

Dutchy wrote:
coolfish1103 wrote:
Originally the decision is to be made between A320/NEO or MAX 8/MAX 9, but the recent crashes of the MAX has led to the NEO winning.


Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.


I am just paraphrasing what the article wrote, it’s up to each one of you to decide if the media reported is true or false. CI is not going to come out to say yes or no as it would damage either their face or relationship with Boeing.

My opinion would be the crashes have a decisive factor in giving CI a reason to say no to Boeing as many purchasing decisions from CI have been highly influenced by politics. Hence we see the additional 77F orders.
 
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precure787
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Thu May 09, 2019 6:25 pm

Of the 25 new A321neos, would some of them be allocated to their LCC subsidiary Tigerair Taiwan? It may be a strong possibility that they're focusing more towards Airbus aircraft. Mandarin Airlines' E190 fleet may be replaced by the A220-300 aircraft, given that JetBlue and Air Canada are doing that same move (A220-300 replacing the E190). However, what about their 4 remaining 747-400 aircraft, even though they received the last 747-400 passenger aircraft?
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trex8
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Thu May 09, 2019 11:26 pm

precure787 wrote:
Of the 25 new A321neos, would some of them be allocated to their LCC subsidiary Tigerair Taiwan? It may be a strong possibility that they're focusing more towards Airbus aircraft. Mandarin Airlines' E190 fleet may be replaced by the A220-300 aircraft, given that JetBlue and Air Canada are doing that same move (A220-300 replacing the E190). However, what about their 4 remaining 747-400 aircraft, even though they received the last 747-400 passenger aircraft?

I would think the A350-1000 has the edge on replacing the 744 pax aircraft. If they have been getting their heavy checks every 6 years, they ve probably all had their 2nd and I cant see them doing a 3rd so will need retiring by 2022/3.
 
ewt340
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Fri May 10, 2019 12:38 am

Understandable. It's a great aircraft for regional routes. I guess they're not really fond of gambling their future with B737MAX8.

Besides, the semi-commonality with A330 and A350 would definitely helps a lot.
 
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precure787
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Fri May 10, 2019 4:28 am

ewt340 wrote:
Besides, the semi-commonality with A330 and A350 would definitely helps a lot.


Bigger question: will they use the same exit layout as their other Airbuses or use the cabinflex?
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LaunchDetected
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Fri May 10, 2019 6:30 am

precure787 wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Besides, the semi-commonality with A330 and A350 would definitely helps a lot.


Bigger question: will they use the same exit layout as their other Airbuses or use the cabinflex?


Airbus Cabin-Flex is an option for now but will be the new standard door configuration for all A321neo from 2020. Given the timeframe, those A321 will use the cabinflex.
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gatibosgru
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Fri May 10, 2019 12:01 pm

Title should be update as there are are also firm purchases along with the leases.
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ewt340
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Fri May 10, 2019 7:19 pm

precure787 wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Besides, the semi-commonality with A330 and A350 would definitely helps a lot.


Bigger question: will they use the same exit layout as their other Airbuses or use the cabinflex?


Well it's not like they would fitted the cabin with high number of seats like many LCC. The cabin flex configurations would be sufficient enough to satisfy the required minimum exit limits for the amount of seats they carry.
 
tropical
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Fri May 10, 2019 7:37 pm

Dutchy wrote:
coolfish1103 wrote:
Originally the decision is to be made between A320/NEO or MAX 8/MAX 9, but the recent crashes of the MAX has led to the NEO winning.


Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.


It could perhaps more likely to be a covert message to the US government in relation to the ongoing trade dispute? The US just announced an increase of its trade tariffs on Chinese products. China is fully aware of how important Boeing is to the US economy and just as importantly how much lobbying power it enjoys in Washington. So it could simply be a warning to Trump: "The longer you persist with this trade war, the more Boeing deals and future sales you are going to lose".
 
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Dutchy
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Fri May 10, 2019 7:38 pm

tropical wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
coolfish1103 wrote:
Originally the decision is to be made between A320/NEO or MAX 8/MAX 9, but the recent crashes of the MAX has led to the NEO winning.


Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.


It could perhaps more likely to be a covert message to the US government in relation to the ongoing trade dispute? The US just announced an increase of its trade tariffs on Chinese products. China is fully aware of how important Boeing is to the US economy and just as importantly how much lobbying power it enjoys in Washington. So it could simply be a warning to Trump: "The longer you persist within trade war, the more Boeing deals and future sales you are going to lose".


Perhaps. Don't think Trump will understand this message.
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Asiaflyer
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Fri May 10, 2019 7:58 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tropical wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.


It could perhaps more likely to be a covert message to the US government in relation to the ongoing trade dispute? The US just announced an increase of its trade tariffs on Chinese products. China is fully aware of how important Boeing is to the US economy and just as importantly how much lobbying power it enjoys in Washington. So it could simply be a warning to Trump: "The longer you persist within trade war, the more Boeing deals and future sales you are going to lose".


Perhaps. Don't think Trump will understand this message.


If you ignore the fact that China Airlines is based in Taiwan and not China..... so this is unrelated to the trade war....
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many321
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Re: China Airlines to lease/buy up to 30 A321neo’s

Fri May 10, 2019 8:20 pm

I could see why CI went with Airbus...most of us know CI's past history with their aircrafts crashing or having issues and at the moment, they're trying to clean up their reputation. Having gone with the MAX series, they would have tempted fate of something occurring or losing whatever public trust they're regaining at the moment.
 
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LaunchDetected
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Fri May 10, 2019 8:37 pm

tropical wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
coolfish1103 wrote:
Originally the decision is to be made between A320/NEO or MAX 8/MAX 9, but the recent crashes of the MAX has led to the NEO winning.


Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.


It could perhaps more likely to be a covert message to the US government in relation to the ongoing trade dispute? The US just announced an increase of its trade tariffs on Chinese products. China is fully aware of how important Boeing is to the US economy and just as importantly how much lobbying power it enjoys in Washington. So it could simply be a warning to Trump: "The longer you persist with this trade war, the more Boeing deals and future sales you are going to lose".


Or maybe the A321neo is more suitable for the future of the fleet?

On this forum each time Airbus win an order it's because of huge discounts or to avoid tariffs.

Also you are confusing Taiwan with China, which shows the weakness of this argument.
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tropical
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Fri May 10, 2019 9:13 pm

LaunchDetected wrote:
tropical wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Sorry, I do not believe this. A professional organization will not be led by feelings of temporary problems with the MAX8/9.


It could perhaps more likely to be a covert message to the US government in relation to the ongoing trade dispute? The US just announced an increase of its trade tariffs on Chinese products. China is fully aware of how important Boeing is to the US economy and just as importantly how much lobbying power it enjoys in Washington. So it could simply be a warning to Trump: "The longer you persist with this trade war, the more Boeing deals and future sales you are going to lose".


Or maybe the A321neo is more suitable for the future of the fleet?

On this forum each time Airbus win an order it's because of huge discounts or to avoid tariffs.

Also you are confusing Taiwan with China, which shows the weakness of this argument.

Fair enough, got my airlines mixed up and for sure being from Taiwan eliminates any chance of it being politically motivated.

For the record, I am from Europe and far from being anti-Airbus or pro-Boeing. In fact, when I first joined many years ago I was a bit of an Airbus fanboy, but have always sought to remain balanced and unbiased.
 
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flee
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Re: China Airlines to lease/buy up to 30 A321neo’s

Sat May 11, 2019 1:08 am

An increasing number of airlines are ordering A321s because of increased traffic and limited airport slots. EVA Air in Taiwan also operates A321s and airlines in neighbouring countries like Vietnam, South Korea and Hong Kong are similarly equipped.
 
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precure787
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Re: China Airlines to lease/buy up to 30 A321neo’s

Sat May 11, 2019 1:33 am

many321 wrote:
most of us know CI's past history with their aircrafts crashing or having issues and at the moment, they're trying to clean up their reputation. Having gone with the MAX series, they would have tempted fate of something occurring or losing whatever public trust they're regaining at the moment.

CI's frequent crashes may have something to do with human error rather than design flaw. The last fatal crash was CI 611, involving their sole remaining 747-200B passenger, and the cracks behind were created by a tailstrike incident 22 years prior (similar to Japan Airlines Flight 123). Since then, many pilots have undergone retraining, and it was so effective that no further accidents involving CI have occurred ever since. However, on August 20, 2007, CI 120, a 737-800, caught fire after parking at Naha Airport. Although everyone survived that ordeal, the cause was the missing slat track washer from improper maintenance. Again, it's human error (most of the time) that have lead to such disastrous results. I guess the only CI crash involving a design flaw was Flight 358, which the engines separated after taking off (ironically, it was the same aircraft that got hijacked by its own pilot when it flew as Flight 334).
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precure787
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Re: China Airlines to lease/buy up to 30 A321neo’s

Sat May 11, 2019 1:37 am

flee wrote:
An increasing number of airlines are ordering A321s because of increased traffic and limited airport slots. EVA Air in Taiwan also operates A321s and airlines in neighbouring countries like Vietnam, South Korea and Hong Kong are similarly equipped.

All Nippon Airways have their A321neos in hand, flying domestic routes (although they would have used them on flights to Taiwan as well). Cathay Dragon will have the A321neo as their sole narrow-bodied aircraft, since Hong Kong is considered a busy airport, and the A321NEOs would expedite efficiency, as opposed to the A320ceo or the A321ceo. And it's also true that Air Asia will get the A321neos as well because of high demand and busy traffic (as opposed to its competitor, Malaysia Airlines).
Edward Zen/Precure 787
 
coolfish1103
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Sun May 12, 2019 3:26 pm

precure787 wrote:
Of the 25 new A321neos, would some of them be allocated to their LCC subsidiary Tigerair Taiwan? It may be a strong possibility that they're focusing more towards Airbus aircraft. Mandarin Airlines' E190 fleet may be replaced by the A220-300 aircraft, given that JetBlue and Air Canada are doing that same move (A220-300 replacing the E190). However, what about their 4 remaining 747-400 aircraft, even though they received the last 747-400 passenger aircraft?


The NEOs will not be used to replace any aircraft of Mandarin Airlines or Tigerair Taiwan.

The 744s will have to leave by 2020 due to the seats, not sure what they are replacing with yet.
 
trex8
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Sun May 12, 2019 3:55 pm

coolfish1103 wrote:
precure787 wrote:
Of the 25 new A321neos, would some of them be allocated to their LCC subsidiary Tigerair Taiwan? It may be a strong possibility that they're focusing more towards Airbus aircraft. Mandarin Airlines' E190 fleet may be replaced by the A220-300 aircraft, given that JetBlue and Air Canada are doing that same move (A220-300 replacing the E190). However, what about their 4 remaining 747-400 aircraft, even though they received the last 747-400 passenger aircraft?


The NEOs will not be used to replace any aircraft of Mandarin Airlines or Tigerair Taiwan.

The 744s will have to leave by 2020 due to the seats, not sure what they are replacing with yet.

Agree.
AE going from a 108 seat E190 to a @200 seat A321??? Maybe there will be a A320neo order for AE eventually but I doubt these A321s are for AE. I could see AE getting A220s first, unless CI end up giving a lot of regional routes to AE.

IT may need some A321s but Ive read they have issues with filling up their scheduled A320 flights, like a lot of their customers book at the last minute, they end up usually getting filled, but this must drive their operations people nuts, so having a high capacity A321 may be an issue with excess capacity though they apparently are doing well on charters using occasional CI A330 metal so maybe that will be where they could absorb some A321s.

If the 744s need replacing in 2020, they better pull the plug soon. Do they still have the 6 A359 options available, I thought they were supposed to exercise them by end last year. Havent heard anything since they took delivery of the last A359. My money is on a A35K. The previous, or even one before that , CEO did say once the A35K would work well for them or something to that effect.
 
coolfish1103
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Re: China Airlines to lease 14 A321NEO

Sun May 12, 2019 4:07 pm

trex8 wrote:
If the 744s need replacing in 2020, they better pull the plug soon. Do they still have the 6 A359 options available, I thought they were supposed to exercise them by end last year. Havent heard anything since they took delivery of the last A359. My money is on a A35K. The previous, or even one before that , CEO did say once the A35K would work well for them or something to that effect.


Let me correct myself. I went to dig the information and it's actually 2021.

B-18210 Boeing 747-400 Dec 2004 (2021)
B-18211 Boeing 747-400 Dec 2004 (2021)
B-18212 Boeing 747-400 Mar 2005 (2021)
B-18215 Boeing 747-400 Apr 2005 (2021)

They have roughly, less than 2 years for 18212, 18215 and 2.5 years for 18210, 18211.

I don't think they have the 6 options available as the website that the airbus employee updates no longer has the options listed. Plus if you look at the manufacturing schedule I don't see opening slots held.
 
trex8
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Re: China Airlines to lease/buy up to 30 A321neo’s

Mon May 13, 2019 1:14 am

Some slots available or at least some line numbers not used
https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbpr ... ction-list
 
tris06
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Re: China Airlines to lease/buy up to 30 A321neo’s

Mon May 13, 2019 5:54 am

If they are retiring them by 2021 (is this when the 3rd heavy check is due?) I hope we will have the final chance to fly them preferrably in their old first class at the front or up stairs between now and then. Good memories for sure.
 
AirwayBill
Posts: 44
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Re: China Airlines to lease/buy up to 30 A321neo’s

Mon May 13, 2019 7:03 am

tris06 wrote:
If they are retiring them by 2021 (is this when the 3rd heavy check is due?) I hope we will have the final chance to fly them preferrably in their old first class at the front or up stairs between now and then. Good memories for sure.


Assuming a D-check is carried out every 6 years, the next D-check for the 2004/2005-built 744 should be 2022-2023. So a 2021 retirement would make sense maintenance-wise.

Also, those late 744 frames for CI are the only ones (with Qantas' ER series) to be fitted with Boeing Signature Interiors borrowed from the 777. So they look much more modern from the inside than the original squarish 744 cabins from the late 80s.

Will miss them for sure when they retire!
 
coolfish1103
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Re: China Airlines to lease/buy up to 30 A321neo’s

Mon May 13, 2019 11:45 am

trex8 wrote:
Some slots available or at least some line numbers not used
https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbpr ... ction-list


Well, from the website the options are no longer there.

I think it's easier to just ask the updater the question about the options?

tris06 wrote:
If they are retiring them by 2021 (is this when the 3rd heavy check is due?) I hope we will have the final chance to fly them preferrably in their old first class at the front or up stairs between now and then. Good memories for sure.


From the source I found it has to do with the Koito seats that forced CI to retire these fleet early. The opportunity costs to replace these aircraft with new seats plus the checks are not economical, so they reduced the depreciation years to 16-17.
 
trex8
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Re: China Airlines to lease/buy up to 30 A321neo’s

Mon May 13, 2019 1:17 pm

coolfish1103 wrote:
trex8 wrote:
Some slots available or at least some line numbers not used
https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbpr ... ction-list


Well, from the website the options are no longer there.

I think it's easier to just ask the updater the question about the options?

tris06 wrote:
If they are retiring them by 2021 (is this when the 3rd heavy check is due?) I hope we will have the final chance to fly them preferrably in their old first class at the front or up stairs between now and then. Good memories for sure.


From the source I found it has to do with the Koito seats that forced CI to retire these fleet early. The opportunity costs to replace these aircraft with new seats plus the checks are not economical, so they reduced the depreciation years to 16-17.

Options aren't included in those lists, only orders, the reports were they were supposed to be firmed by end 2018 but maybe they are still holding them but have not converted to firm order yet, or they have truly lapsed.
 
tris06
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 12:36 am

Re: China Airlines to lease/buy up to 30 A321neo’s

Tue May 14, 2019 3:45 am

The seating for the 747s.. I really don't know why they didn't rip out 4 sets of the cabin seating from the older 747s and put them into the current 747s. The newish seating was not that great but it was a 2012-2013 installation.

By the way I find some cabins really start to feel dated especially for electronics which get abused pretty well. Was on an A330 (long hual varient b-183056) last week and it definately has wear and tear after 10yr since delivery. The short hual A330s (up to 16yrs old now) start to feel like the old A340s falling apart.
 
coolfish1103
Topic Author
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Re: China Airlines to lease/buy up to 30 A321neo’s

Wed May 15, 2019 3:03 pm

trex8 wrote:
Options aren't included in those lists, only orders, the reports were they were supposed to be firmed by end 2018 but maybe they are still holding them but have not converted to firm order yet, or they have truly lapsed.


I thought the website use to have options listed, maybe I was wrong.

Yes the last news from Aug 2018 was they were considering 359 or 35J before the contract expires (which were suppose to last year). We will see if any news come out then.

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