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dennypayne
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Thu May 09, 2019 7:36 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
I'm not sure if it has something to do with the number of baggage handlers per flight, or priority given to connecting bags, or some combination of the two, but at any AA hub airport your bags will NEVER beat you to the carousel.

And it's pretty awful at outstations, too - last year I stood in front of the baggage belt in Santa Rosa, California, for more than half an hour. The plane was about 300 feet away. My parents recently waited almost an hour for their bags in Sacramento.


Yep, I could at least understand the delay a little at the hub. But you're right that the outstations are generally no better. The only one that ever performed well for me was San Antonio. They consistently had the bags coming out by the time I got to the carousel, which was such an exception that I showered them with those little "Outstanding Service" certificates that they used to give us as elites to hand out to employees for recognition.
A300/310/319/320/321/332/333/343/380 AN24/28/38/148 AT72 B190
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F100 J31 L1011 L410 M11/80/90 RJ85 S340 SSJ100 T134/154 Y42
 
Chemist
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Thu May 09, 2019 11:57 pm

I'm lifetime Gold but I now always book WN preferentially. I get better seating, better service, better ff program.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 12:24 am

Chemist wrote:
I'm lifetime Gold but I now always book WN preferentially. I get better seating, better service, better ff program.


What's the reasoning for that? No TPAC or TATL service, no AVOD, no possibility of Admirals Club access, no Y+ or F upgrades...
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Miamiairport
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 12:33 am

apodino wrote:
Its not just whats visible to the passenger but some little things that go on behind the scenes that actually contribute to some of the operational issues. I can highlight a few.

1. Flight Attendant scheduling has gotten insane. It is not uncommon for a Flight Attendant to work a transcon flight from JFK-LAS and then immediately work the redeye flight back. While this is legal, this doesn't exactly promote employee morale.

2. I believe the decision to run DFW as a banked and not a rolling hub is really hurting AA. It is really tough to run 900 flights a day out of a banked hub. What this means is you essentially have 100 flights per bank, while landing a bunch of flights. This just doesn't lead to a reliable operation. ORD is perfect for a banked hub as are PHL, PHX and MIA. CLT is borderline, but they have huge problems with ramp congestion. But there is no way DFW should be run as a banked hub. I get trying to provide more connecting opportunities to passengers, but when it causes your reliability to go down the toilet, it really needs to be looked at much more closely. DL runs ATL as a rolling hub. Enough said.

3. There are still two groups that don't have joint contracts on the property, the Rampers and the Mechanics. It can be inferred that the MX folks are not as motivated to repair planes as quickly as they otherwise would be. There are some issues that the Unions themselves have caused, but the negotiations have gotten so ugly that meet and greets with employees have turned into shouting matches between Isom and Parker and Union leadership. The company has even taken to posting their "offer" to the employee web site, and naturally most of the employees think the proposal is concessionary.

4. The middle management structure in some areas has become bloated to the point where these managers are trying to make all the decisions, and micromanage everything. This has led to some very bad decisions especially given the stat driven nature. One common one is if a plane runs late due to MX, rather than cancel the flight, delay the flight overnight until the next morning. It saves a cancel, but it causes way more headaches down road for passengers who otherwise would not be affected.

5. Taking native SABRE away from the Customer Service folks at the airport has not been a popular decision and many of the long time AA folks who were very proficient in SABRE could help customers a lot more easily. QIK has not given them the same flexibility that native SABRE has.

6. Questionable fleet decisions on some routes. On MIA-SEA, the 321S has better range than the 738 and usually can do the route much more easily, but a 738 is still often scheduled on the route...often times needing a fuel stop even when the 321 can make it. Also, 737s are regularly scheduling into both CLT and PHX, as well as Airbuses into ORD, yet AA does not have a 737 crew base in either CLT or PHX nor do they have an airbus base in ORD. That being said, Vasu Raja is one of the bright guys in AA management so I don't doubt he looks at this stuff carefully.

These are a few issues I can see that the folks may not see. I think most employees are wishing Kirby had stayed now and Isom had left. But it is clear Parker and Isom are in over their heads and new leadership may be needed. But I hope Vasu Raja
stays, he is really good at what he does.


MIA is a disaster as a banked hub. I can only imagine some of the ideas that Parker is talked out of.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 12:55 am

apodino wrote:
I believe the decision to run DFW as a banked and not a rolling hub is really hurting AA. It is really tough to run 900 flights a day out of a banked hub. What this means is you essentially have 100 flights per bank, while landing a bunch of flights. This just doesn't lead to a reliable operation. ORD is perfect for a banked hub as are PHL, PHX and MIA. CLT is borderline, but they have huge problems with ramp congestion. But there is no way DFW should be run as a banked hub. I get trying to provide more connecting opportunities to passengers, but when it causes your reliability to go down the toilet, it really needs to be looked at much more closely. DL runs ATL as a rolling hub. Enough said.


I've been trying not to "pile on" American, but this explains EXACTLY the horror show that DFW has become at night if there's even the slightest delay with a single incoming flight that upsets their "finely tuned" banked hub.

I've been delayed many times from FSM, but have arrived at DFW on time. Yet, for some reason, our gate has been given away, and we passengers are given a full and complete tour of the entire DFW metroplex as we drive around every taxiway and ramp there is, hoping a gate will open up so we might possibly make our connections.

I've witnessed near riots on board airplanes as no explanation for any delay is given, nor are any reassurances about tight connections attempted.

I've seen rats abandoning a sinking ship move slower than employees running away from passengers in need, especially late at night. Promised skycap with a wheelchair? Nope! Want your gate checked bags at the gate in under 30 minutes? Dream on! But do you like sneering gate agents literally asking you, "what took you so long?" as you run to your gate after enduring every single obstacle imaginable? Then DFW is the airport for you!!

American could EASILY return to the glory years of the past and become an exceedingly well-run airline with lots of happy frequent fliers eagerly paying for upgrades and last-minute fares, but unfortunately, right now, it is being run by idiots.

REAL leadership means more than succumbing to the siren-song of "short-term profits for the investors are the ONLY thing that matters!". REAL leadership means more on your agenda than squeezing every nickel out of every supplier, customer, and employee until the buffalo poops, then bragging about your so-called "business prowess". REAL leadership is not devoting your life to the achievement of securing a golden parachute, thus freeing you to destroy a company and its employees for sport.

Real leadership means you focus on the long-term viability of your company, and its continued success into the future, long after you are gone. Real leadership means you work WITH your employees, not treat them like the enemy; or worse, as "the help", to be disposed of when they begin to cost too much. Real leadership means you invest some of that "pirate's treasure" you acquire from your customers and invest that in livable salaries for all your employees, acquire new planes when needed, and maintain your planes to the highest - ergo, safest - standards any government agency requires. Real leadership means you empower your employees to go the extra mile when the situation arises - and we all know it will, on a daily basis, across your entire fleet. Real leadership means it's "all hands on deck" during IRROPs, meaning middle-managers and higher-ups burn the midnight oil, helping out the front-line employees to get flights re-routed, passengers on their way - with their bags, airplanes in the air, airports cleared, and operations returned to normal.

Boeing has this problem right now, with the MAX 8 and the 787 issues. United had this problem - remember the summer of 2000? And the CO merger? American's problems are solvable, but until the pass-out drunk hits a tree, he's not going to admit he has a problem. American's upper management will blame everyone except themselves - and at the moment, they have no reason to do otherwise.
 
strfyr51
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 1:09 am

American has ONLY lost it's brand Purpose because US Air is running the show. The ONLY reason United is prospering? Because the Guys who got Jettisoned after their OWN airlines merged? Wound up at United, And? With a "chip" on their shoulders! They came in the Door Kickin' Ass and taking Names. They weren't trying to hear about the Continental way that Smisek and company espoused. They came in with Ideas they had at Northwest, American, and United (pre Merger)
Now? They're implementing those Ideas And? They're kicking BUTT! They know we're not going backwards So UP? is the only WAY TO go!! You can see it in the condition of the cabins .the operations and even the Terminals. We've got a ways to go but We've come a long way as well. American will cine that way sooner or Later..
 
maps4ltd
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 1:37 am

It's an INC article. I'd take it with a grain of salt; they love to rip AA. It's like Huffpo with Donald Trump.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
CX773W
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 2:42 am

Hi! I just has a hard time understanding why there is so much AA bashing at A.net. Right now, MEM is the closet major airport to me, and on my travels out west, AA's connection through DFW offers ample opportunity for be to arrive at MEM before dark and allow a safe 2-hour drive back home. As for DL, the favorite US airline on A.net; unless I travel east through ATL or going to the Pacific NW/Northern Plaines/Northern Rockies through DTW or MSP, it is really not of much use for me. Maybe I am just not a very demanding air traveller, and all I want is a safe flight with an acceptable comfort level and few excess fees. Admittedly, I love WN if the connection and arrival timings are right, and I had used UA to DEN for a few times before WN's arrival on the MEM-DEN route. On the other hand, I really stay away from F9 and G4 both due to extra fees and unfavorable flight timings. So can anyone here explain the immense hatred towards AA here? Thanks!
 
Chemist
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 3:03 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Chemist wrote:
I'm lifetime Gold but I now always book WN preferentially. I get better seating, better service, better ff program.


What's the reasoning for that? No TPAC or TATL service, no AVOD, no possibility of Admirals Club access, no Y+ or F upgrades...


I don't fly enough for upgrades and they're rarely available anymore. The FF program is significantly devalued. On WN I don't have blackouts and I can go all over the US and Caribbean.
 
OB1504
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 3:41 am

apodino wrote:
ORD is perfect for a banked hub as are PHL, PHX and MIA.

5. Taking native SABRE away from the Customer Service folks at the airport has not been a popular decision and many of the long time AA folks who were very proficient in SABRE could help customers a lot more easily. QIK has not given them the same flexibility that native SABRE has.

6. Questionable fleet decisions on some routes. On MIA-SEA, the 321S has better range than the 738 and usually can do the route much more easily, but a 738 is still often scheduled on the route...often times needing a fuel stop even when the 321 can make it.


MIA also falls apart as a banked hub in the summer when thunderstorms stop operations for hours at a time. You’ll have two banks’ worth of flights on the ground waiting for the previous bank to get off the gates. AA outgrew Concourse D before it was even finished and they’re pressed for gates even after swallowing up all of low E and most of the E satellite. Creeping delays build up until all of the 9 PM departures are delayed until midnight and then start cancelling one by one as crews time out.

MIA-SEA on the 738 rarely requires a fuel stop and it’s only temporary until the 737 MAX comes back.

Midwestindy wrote:
Chemist wrote:
I'm lifetime Gold but I now always book WN preferentially. I get better seating, better service, better ff program.


What's the reasoning for that? No TPAC or TATL service, no AVOD, no possibility of Admirals Club access, no Y+ or F upgrades...


Southwest is great if you don’t fly internationally often and don’t plan on spending much time at the airport. AA is hard at work ripping AVOD out of their domestic fleet and shrinking their F and Y+ cabins (both in terms of number of seats and seat pitch), so upgrades aren’t the motivator they used to be.

CX773W wrote:
So can anyone here explain the immense hatred towards AA here? Thanks!


For me, part of it is frustration that AA has fallen so far. Decades ago, AA was the industry leader, bringing innovations like the airport lounge and frequent flier program. Nowadays all they do is copy Delta, but only when it’s something customer-unfriendly. There’s so much wasted potential.
 
Chemist
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 4:18 am

Chemist wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Chemist wrote:
I'm lifetime Gold but I now always book WN preferentially. I get better seating, better service, better ff program.


What's the reasoning for that? No TPAC or TATL service, no AVOD, no possibility of Admirals Club access, no Y+ or F upgrades...


I don't fly enough for upgrades and they're rarely available anymore. The FF program is significantly devalued. On WN I don't have blackouts and I can go all over the US and Caribbean.


Also WN has streaming AVOD. And although no power outlets, take the $30 you save on your bag fee and buy a large power brick and you can use that on any/every flight.
 
acentauri
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 5:07 am

nc3rd wrote:
If its an article from INC.com you can guarantee its going to be highly critical and over sensationalized anti-aa rhetoric. I dont know what AA did to that guy, but he hasnt let it go.

A Rag Writer pawning for (more) notoriety. Here's a similar trash can episode about United. Maybe someone should start a seperate thread so the United Bashers can have their field day. :sarcastic:
https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/un ... rline.html
 
CX773W
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 6:35 am

Now to my second part. Why do A.net members love DL so much among the US3?
 
Antarius
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 6:51 am

spinotter wrote:
Antarius wrote:
spinotter wrote:

Is the difference between DL and AA that wide and deep? If it's just branding, AA might be able to find a new way to succeed with its same performance measures. Is it all bluff and false luster?


The issue is operational. DL has a 20 minute bag guarantee, their on time metrics are good etc. AA is operationally a cluster right now.

Until the underlying issue is fixed, marketing and branding isnt going to win any supporters.


Just out of curiosity, why is AA operationally a cluster right now. It must be poor management, right?


That would be my guess. They have the youngest fleet and their largest hubs are in places that arent permanently having shitty weather (UA has EWR and SFO to deal with), so not a ton of good excuses other than management and labor discontent, which ultimately comes back to management.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
Antarius
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 6:55 am

CX773W wrote:
Now to my second part. Why do A.net members love DL so much among the US3?


DL does have a set of rabid fans, similar to the DTW brigade, the MIA brigade and the Indian Aviation brigade that come swarming out with regularity.

That said, DL is an stupidly profitable company that is operationally excellent. As someone who doesnt fly DL really at all, it is still commendable to see and deserving of appreciation for that.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
spartanmjf
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 11:41 am

CX773W wrote:
Now to my second part. Why do A.net members love DL so much among the US3?


Brutally reliable ontime arrivals and departures, a decent inflight product in domestic Y and a better than decent one in domestic F, streaming video across most if not all of the mainline fleet, a club experience that is fairly consistently decent, generally helpful and friendly staff, need I go on?

I say this as a Silver - most of my flying is actually on WN and, with the exception of F and club service, most of the same kudos go to them (though the Max thing has hurt them somewhat from an operational perspective).
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
UPNYGuy
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 1:06 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
I would rather take Spirit now because at least I have wifi and just can buy the big front seat for cheap.


Cant say I disagree with this. I’m heading BDL-FLL on NK, in a BFS again. I can purchase the bundle pack with checked, carry, expedited security (I have PreCheck though), and more, and it is still comparable to flying in a coach class product. Sometimes it is around $100 more, but still... for the extra $100 to fly in what is a domestic first type seat???

I never thought I would say this, but NK has been getting my domestic business. At least in the northeast to Florida corridor. I would also not hesitate to fly them Boston to Seattle, if in a BFS. I haven’t looked at the timeframes though.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 1:17 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Chemist wrote:
I'm lifetime Gold but I now always book WN preferentially. I get better seating, better service, better ff program.


What's the reasoning for that? No TPAC or TATL service, no AVOD, no possibility of Admirals Club access, no Y+ or F upgrades...


I also switched from AA, Chemist, to Delta. Delta instead of WN to keep the benefits described above by MidwestIndy.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
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spinotter
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 3:01 pm

CX773W wrote:
Now to my second part. Why do A.net members love DL so much among the US3?


I will answer for me. I was always a NW fanboy, hardly ever flew DL, but I saw how the merger/takeover went through and I think most former NW employees, who used to be the most militant strikers, have admitted that Delta has been good to them and they have not (yet) reunionized. I read through yelp.com about the different airlines, and you hardly ever get a complaint about DL (or WN for that matter) that the airline employee could just not even be bothered to be kind and helpful. You've been reading a lot about UA in that regard, but less now, I think. Now it's AA that seems to have an attitude! DL has done a good job and they deserve their reputation.
 
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spinotter
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 3:05 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Chemist wrote:
I'm lifetime Gold but I now always book WN preferentially. I get better seating, better service, better ff program.


What's the reasoning for that? No TPAC or TATL service, no AVOD, no possibility of Admirals Club access, no Y+ or F upgrades...


I also switched from AA, Chemist, to Delta. Delta instead of WN to keep the benefits described above by MidwestIndy.


May I answer about the reasoning for that? Because not everything is a matter of dollars and cents. I haven't flown in a while, and maybe things have changed, but every time I have ever flown WN I knew from beginning to end that every WN employee had the well-being of the passengers as their first priority. You don't always experience that and it's worth a lot of value to me, more than some of the things I'm sacrificing in your list.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 284
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 4:01 pm

apodino wrote:
Questionable fleet decisions on some routes. On MIA-SEA, the 321S has better range than the 738 and usually can do the route much more easily, but a 738 is still often scheduled on the route...often times needing a fuel stop even when the 321 can make it. Also, 737s are regularly scheduling into both CLT and PHX, as well as Airbuses into ORD, yet AA does not have a 737 crew base in either CLT or PHX nor do they have an airbus base in ORD. That being said, Vasu Raja is one of the bright guys in AA management so I don't doubt he looks at this stuff carefully.


This is the airline that flies Mesa CRJ-900s on DFW-PHX. Fleet routing decisions are not their strong suit.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
maps4ltd
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 4:02 pm

spinotter wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

What's the reasoning for that? No TPAC or TATL service, no AVOD, no possibility of Admirals Club access, no Y+ or F upgrades...


I also switched from AA, Chemist, to Delta. Delta instead of WN to keep the benefits described above by MidwestIndy.


May I answer about the reasoning for that? Because not everything is a matter of dollars and cents. I haven't flown in a while, and maybe things have changed, but every time I have ever flown WN I knew from beginning to end that every WN employee had the well-being of the passengers as their first priority. You don't always experience that and it's worth a lot of value to me, more than some of the things I'm sacrificing in your list.


I've experienced similar on Delta, you are right.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
milemaster
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 5:11 pm

For the last several years I fly AA just enough so I achieve gold and fly WN and DL the rest of the year. With OASIS being rolled out I'm not sure I'll even bother continuing to do that next year.
 
Airbuser
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 5:34 pm

Pretty simple to turn the ship around.
1. Settle the two open contracts.
2. Delta profit sharing formula.
3. Don’t drag pilot and flight attendant contracts out for years and years.
4. Term limit chief pilots to Max 3 or 4 years in the office. Many have been in their positions way too long to have any clue as to what really goes on day to day. One individual had 2000 hours of flight time in 32 years.
5. Hire someone who knows how to run an operation. Current incompetents blame it on weather. As if no other airline has to deal with weather. Look no further than DFW and Love field stats during weather events.
6. Hire someone to get the uniform situation fixed. Please. You could not have screwed that up more. I have seen the latest flight attendant uniform pictures and it is the worst yet. How hard can it be?
7. Pay me like Delta.

There is still plenty of angst out in the trenches. It takes time to rid the animosity but it can be done. Look no further than NWA. They were known for contentious management/employee relationships. Look at them now. The opportunity is there. We just need the right individual to lead us. I love AA. It saddens me to see us get our rear ends kicked year in and year out. I am rapidly approaching the end of my tenure. I worry for those who follow.
 
N408BN
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 8:44 pm

braniff2hav wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
ORD is just domestic and summer seasonal leisure routes to Europe. Their recent additions to ORD have been regional routes that UA already serves.

They’re growing CLT but are gate restricted which will change soon.

A majority of AA employees are unhappy with AA and the management team.


I would be very unhappy too. Full disclosure: former employee from 89 to 93. AA has no brand, no warmth, nothing that makes me desire to fly them, it has been stripped of its personality, there is no sizzle any longer. Delta, as a domestic carrier, has proven at every turn that they do want your $ with innovative branding, programs and flying. Their onboard may not be the absolute best .. but they seem to go to work daily with the customer in mind. AA is about numbers - that's it. This is my personal impression. It's sad to see such a strong company like AA be reduced in image as it has been by USAirways. I have hope .. I mean they do have some significant assets to work with. AA needs to put on a smile and get out there.


" AA is about numbers - that's it." AAmerican has always just been about numbers. They did a real number on Braniff, and tried it on Southwest. Putnam recorded Crandall;s call and sued over it.
We liked flying Braniff Style
 
Brickell305
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Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 9:49 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
apodino wrote:
Its not just whats visible to the passenger but some little things that go on behind the scenes that actually contribute to some of the operational issues. I can highlight a few.

1. Flight Attendant scheduling has gotten insane. It is not uncommon for a Flight Attendant to work a transcon flight from JFK-LAS and then immediately work the redeye flight back. While this is legal, this doesn't exactly promote employee morale.

2. I believe the decision to run DFW as a banked and not a rolling hub is really hurting AA. It is really tough to run 900 flights a day out of a banked hub. What this means is you essentially have 100 flights per bank, while landing a bunch of flights. This just doesn't lead to a reliable operation. ORD is perfect for a banked hub as are PHL, PHX and MIA. CLT is borderline, but they have huge problems with ramp congestion. But there is no way DFW should be run as a banked hub. I get trying to provide more connecting opportunities to passengers, but when it causes your reliability to go down the toilet, it really needs to be looked at much more closely. DL runs ATL as a rolling hub. Enough said.

3. There are still two groups that don't have joint contracts on the property, the Rampers and the Mechanics. It can be inferred that the MX folks are not as motivated to repair planes as quickly as they otherwise would be. There are some issues that the Unions themselves have caused, but the negotiations have gotten so ugly that meet and greets with employees have turned into shouting matches between Isom and Parker and Union leadership. The company has even taken to posting their "offer" to the employee web site, and naturally most of the employees think the proposal is concessionary.

4. The middle management structure in some areas has become bloated to the point where these managers are trying to make all the decisions, and micromanage everything. This has led to some very bad decisions especially given the stat driven nature. One common one is if a plane runs late due to MX, rather than cancel the flight, delay the flight overnight until the next morning. It saves a cancel, but it causes way more headaches down road for passengers who otherwise would not be affected.

5. Taking native SABRE away from the Customer Service folks at the airport has not been a popular decision and many of the long time AA folks who were very proficient in SABRE could help customers a lot more easily. QIK has not given them the same flexibility that native SABRE has.

6. Questionable fleet decisions on some routes. On MIA-SEA, the 321S has better range than the 738 and usually can do the route much more easily, but a 738 is still often scheduled on the route...often times needing a fuel stop even when the 321 can make it. Also, 737s are regularly scheduling into both CLT and PHX, as well as Airbuses into ORD, yet AA does not have a 737 crew base in either CLT or PHX nor do they have an airbus base in ORD. That being said, Vasu Raja is one of the bright guys in AA management so I don't doubt he looks at this stuff carefully.

These are a few issues I can see that the folks may not see. I think most employees are wishing Kirby had stayed now and Isom had left. But it is clear Parker and Isom are in over their heads and new leadership may be needed. But I hope Vasu Raja
stays, he is really good at what he does.


MIA is a disaster as a banked hub. I can only imagine some of the ideas that Parker is talked out of.

Agreed.
 
Chemist
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Fri May 10, 2019 10:44 pm

spinotter wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

What's the reasoning for that? No TPAC or TATL service, no AVOD, no possibility of Admirals Club access, no Y+ or F upgrades...


I also switched from AA, Chemist, to Delta. Delta instead of WN to keep the benefits described above by MidwestIndy.


May I answer about the reasoning for that? Because not everything is a matter of dollars and cents. I haven't flown in a while, and maybe things have changed, but every time I have ever flown WN I knew from beginning to end that every WN employee had the well-being of the passengers as their first priority. You don't always experience that and it's worth a lot of value to me, more than some of the things I'm sacrificing in your list.


Spinotter, that's what I think as well.
To me, AA has gone from at least a "decent legacy" to a "legacy in name, Spriit/Frontier in game"....unless you are paying the big bucks to buy premium classes.
The pitch is tight, the service is worse than WN or DL, the fees are nickel and dime, the FF program is substantially devalued. It's clear you are in the back of the bus to fill a seat and take up as little space as possible.
 
Wacker1000
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:36 pm

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sat May 11, 2019 7:54 pm

Airbuser wrote:
Pretty simple to turn the ship around.
1. Settle the two open contracts.
2. Delta profit sharing formula.
3. Don’t drag pilot and flight attendant contracts out for years and years.
4. Term limit chief pilots to Max 3 or 4 years in the office. Many have been in their positions way too long to have any clue as to what really goes on day to day. One individual had 2000 hours of flight time in 32 years.
5. Hire someone who knows how to run an operation. Current incompetents blame it on weather. As if no other airline has to deal with weather. Look no further than DFW and Love field stats during weather events.
6. Hire someone to get the uniform situation fixed. Please. You could not have screwed that up more. I have seen the latest flight attendant uniform pictures and it is the worst yet. How hard can it be?
7. Pay me like Delta.

There is still plenty of angst out in the trenches. It takes time to rid the animosity but it can be done. Look no further than NWA. They were known for contentious management/employee relationships. Look at them now. The opportunity is there. We just need the right individual to lead us. I love AA. It saddens me to see us get our rear ends kicked year in and year out. I am rapidly approaching the end of my tenure. I worry for those who follow.


If you believe some of the arm chair accountants, it would take a half million in "back pay" per person to make people happy. Realistic expectations need to prevail. Sending members of the rank and file to the negotiating table instead of hiring professionals isn't going to end well. A professional legal team would have said to take the contract and move on but instead unions have left several groups making pay that is years behind. But then again you can't blame them - for instance a lot of people at mother TWU or mother IAM will lose a ton of money if the other union gains full control! They can stir the pot and cause unrest while continuing to collect their fat checks and blaming Doug.
 
soflaflyer
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 2:11 am

gdg9 wrote:
I'll be happy when I get my bags from AA in less than 40-45 minutes after arriving at DFW.

or MIA....
 
Atlwarrior
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:42 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 3:46 am

You all have a point about the banked hub, the last two American flights to Myrtle Beach was canceled because of storms. I don’t understand why it wasn’t delayed instead. I’m sure a lot of bikers and Mother’s Day moms are upset tonight.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 3:55 am

Atlwarrior wrote:
You all have a point about the banked hub, the last two American flights to Myrtle Beach was canceled because of storms. I don’t understand why it wasn’t delayed instead. I’m sure a lot of bikers and Mother’s Day moms are upset tonight.


It's possible that the incoming aircraft couldn't get to MYR because of storms at the origin or at MYR.
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 1524
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 4:07 am

Most of my flying these days is done on AA or DL with a couple WN, NK, and UA flights thrown in the mix. All of my AA flights have been perfectly fine, with most employees being very nice and very communicative with passengers. DL, while lackluster compared to other international air carriers, is definitely the better US airline, with most staff being happy and it's perks outweighing it's deficiencies. UA has definitely impressed me as of late and show they are improving, I have had a few lackluster flights with them during the Smisek era that led me to AA & DL but my most recent UA flights really impressed me. They are definitely turning things around for the better.

Now all of that ranting being said, AA isn't going to improve at all until they clean house with management, starting with the CEO. AA currently is 100% about numbers, not customer retention, satisfaction, or standing in the airline world. That will come back to bite them next time they are vying for customers.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
n2dru
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:02 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 5:00 am

Its known CLT is gate constrained but are working on adding additional gates. Do you think AA would like to build CLT to ATL level of flights( 1000+ plus flights)? Duplicating a lot of the flows DL does thru ATL? Or would they reserve that for DFW which isn't that far behind ATL as far as flights go?
 
ExpatVet
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:35 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 6:27 am

CMHtraveler wrote:
Heck, California Pacific which lasted about as long as it took for me to write this post, was 100% non-union!


Oh, come on, CP was a lunatic idea by a bunch of folks who wanted a tax loss before April 16.

Or worse, a bunch of con artists who fleeced an old man out of a lot of money.

It was never a viable airline.
L101, 733/4/5/8, 741/2/3 (never managed 744!), MD 80/2/3/8/90, MD11, DHC8/3/Q4, E170, E195, 757, 77W, 763/4, Travel Air 2000. A300/310, A319/320/321, A333, ATR-72, probably a few others I forget. Passenger, not pilot, alas! BUD based.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3640
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 1:06 pm

soflaflyer wrote:
gdg9 wrote:
I'll be happy when I get my bags from AA in less than 40-45 minutes after arriving at DFW.

or MIA....


That’s what got me to stop flying AA if I need to take checked baggage. I’d rather connect to fly into FLL because the layover will probably be faster than waiting for bags at MIA.
 
usa330300
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:29 pm

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 1:49 pm

mpdpilot wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
As a Phoenix-based AA frequent flier, the product that is on the LUS A321's that infest the AA system is just flat out sad. It feels drab and outdated along with crews that are demotivated and overworked. I really hope that something starts to change on the domestic side because AA just cannot compete with the current industry leaders in any way shape or form currently.

I would rather take Spirit now because at least I have wifi and just can buy the big front seat for cheap.

(I say this all as a person that used to love American but has been driven away by the rapid transformation into a ULCC on the domestic side)


Agreed!! I was on a flight from Chicago earlier in the year and the flight attendants were apologizing about the lack of any entertainment on the aircraft, no wifi, no nothing. I am starting to think a stop in MSP/DTW/SLC would be an improvement.

Also to someone else's comment about Delta's on board product, I just flew one of their "older" 767s from SEA-CDG-SEA and I was blown away, the wifi was fast, the in-seat entertainment was as good as BA's 747s and the service was amazing. I have gone out of my way to fly on AA's 787s and they are good but after this last trip, I would take a DL 767 over an AA 787 or a BA 747 any day (if we are talking about bang for your buck, as an aviation enthusiast, the 747 is still a dream :))


There are things called books and newspapers. Perhaps you should give them a try. Let me guess, you are someone that constantly cries boredom as well.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 2:25 pm

ExpatVet wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
Heck, California Pacific which lasted about as long as it took for me to write this post, was 100% non-union!


Oh, come on, CP was a lunatic idea by a bunch of folks who wanted a tax loss before April 16.

Or worse, a bunch of con artists who fleeced an old man out of a lot of money.

It was never a viable airline.


Right, that’s my point! The management of an airline, begets it’s success or failure, not whether or not the workers have unions. Don’t get me wrong, managing any airline, especially a startup in today’s environment, is an incredibly complex and difficult task. That’s why we have very few startups and, at best, a duopoly on most routes.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4035
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 2:38 pm

In many business categories, and airlines are one of them, developing a meaningful “Brand Purpose” is near impossible because your competition has basically the same product, same purpose. Coke & Pepsi have the same purpose, they taste a bit different, different branding, but they are both refreshing beverages and competing via brand perception.
So, the real battle is over “”brand perception” - if the extremely well known brands are the US3, who will win the perception war? Today Delta seems to be the clear winner, but if Delta was to worry about how to maintain that, (If I was CEO of Delta) I’d worry much more about United than AA. United hit rock bottom, it was change or die. And while there still a lot of work to do, United has a crisper brand mission and is executing against it as fast as a giant airline can go.
AA’s new livery clearly is trying to tell the world “we are the BA or Lufthansa of the USA”- for reasons I cannot pinpoint, they are not getting there, and a livery alone can’t make it so. It’s all about what people from each segment think, AA’s products and customer experience and operations that will.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
SunsetLimited
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:20 pm

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 3:21 pm

AA is a disaster. Day in and day out, major operational issues. Yet they have time to continue to demoralize employees if they let the airplane push out of the gate 11 minutes early as opposed to 10 (buddy of mine there told me about this).
Spread hope like fire.
 
airtran737
Posts: 3414
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 3:30 pm

n2dru wrote:
Its known CLT is gate constrained but are working on adding additional gates. Do you think AA would like to build CLT to ATL level of flights( 1000+ plus flights)? Duplicating a lot of the flows DL does thru ATL? Or would they reserve that for DFW which isn't that far behind ATL as far as flights go?


CLT had around 750 fights a day in 2018 between all the airlines. I cannot even begin to imagine AA going up to the level of DL in ATL. There just isn’t the room for it now, and the layout of the airport doesn’t support it.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
vegas005
Posts: 300
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:25 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 5:25 pm

I have a buddy who flies AA DFW MIA every week, Monday in, Thursday evening out. I hear a story every other week of delays, canceled flights and even a couple of diversions due to various issues. He repeatedly tells me there is no love for the client on AA.
 
MGC1191
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:20 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 6:04 pm

I have nothing useful to add to this conversation, but as a consumer and airplane geek.. perhaps once Parker and friends are ousted we get a new Livery that actually means something.
 
MGC1191
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:20 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 6:07 pm

airtran737 wrote:
n2dru wrote:
Its known CLT is gate constrained but are working on adding additional gates. Do you think AA would like to build CLT to ATL level of flights( 1000+ plus flights)? Duplicating a lot of the flows DL does thru ATL? Or would they reserve that for DFW which isn't that far behind ATL as far as flights go?


CLT had around 750 fights a day in 2018 between all the airlines. I cannot even begin to imagine AA going up to the level of DL in ATL. There just isn’t the room for it now, and the layout of the airport doesn’t support it.


General consensus around here is that once the expansions are all done the gap between us an ATL will be shortened, but not bridged. We are more looking at closing the gap between us and DFW. We will never surpass either ATL or DFW but if we could get our act together we could surely stand on their coattails.
 
User avatar
SierraPacific
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 6:30 pm

usa330300 wrote:
mpdpilot wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
As a Phoenix-based AA frequent flier, the product that is on the LUS A321's that infest the AA system is just flat out sad. It feels drab and outdated along with crews that are demotivated and overworked. I really hope that something starts to change on the domestic side because AA just cannot compete with the current industry leaders in any way shape or form currently.

I would rather take Spirit now because at least I have wifi and just can buy the big front seat for cheap.

(I say this all as a person that used to love American but has been driven away by the rapid transformation into a ULCC on the domestic side)


Agreed!! I was on a flight from Chicago earlier in the year and the flight attendants were apologizing about the lack of any entertainment on the aircraft, no wifi, no nothing. I am starting to think a stop in MSP/DTW/SLC would be an improvement.

Also to someone else's comment about Delta's on board product, I just flew one of their "older" 767s from SEA-CDG-SEA and I was blown away, the wifi was fast, the in-seat entertainment was as good as BA's 747s and the service was amazing. I have gone out of my way to fly on AA's 787s and they are good but after this last trip, I would take a DL 767 over an AA 787 or a BA 747 any day (if we are talking about bang for your buck, as an aviation enthusiast, the 747 is still a dream :))


There are things called books and newspapers. Perhaps you should give them a try. Let me guess, you are someone that constantly cries boredom as well.


If I have to bring a book or newspaper to entertain myself from BOS-PHX, I better be being charged reflective of that service which American does not. The other two legacies, Delta specifically but United as well, have been improving onboard experience while American has been ripping out IFE and reducing passenger comfort all the while charging the same prices as the other two carriers. I think that American has unlimited potential with great hub locations and a huge fleet but labor issues and bad management is really hurting their brand right now.

Anecdotal but on the ancient A321's out of PHX I have had transcons without any Wifi multiple times which makes for a god awful 5 hours when you were counting on having Wifi that you paid for.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1364
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 6:46 pm

usa330300 wrote:
mpdpilot wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
As a Phoenix-based AA frequent flier, the product that is on the LUS A321's that infest the AA system is just flat out sad. It feels drab and outdated along with crews that are demotivated and overworked. I really hope that something starts to change on the domestic side because AA just cannot compete with the current industry leaders in any way shape or form currently.

I would rather take Spirit now because at least I have wifi and just can buy the big front seat for cheap.

(I say this all as a person that used to love American but has been driven away by the rapid transformation into a ULCC on the domestic side)


Agreed!! I was on a flight from Chicago earlier in the year and the flight attendants were apologizing about the lack of any entertainment on the aircraft, no wifi, no nothing. I am starting to think a stop in MSP/DTW/SLC would be an improvement.

Also to someone else's comment about Delta's on board product, I just flew one of their "older" 767s from SEA-CDG-SEA and I was blown away, the wifi was fast, the in-seat entertainment was as good as BA's 747s and the service was amazing. I have gone out of my way to fly on AA's 787s and they are good but after this last trip, I would take a DL 767 over an AA 787 or a BA 747 any day (if we are talking about bang for your buck, as an aviation enthusiast, the 747 is still a dream :))


There are things called books and newspapers. Perhaps you should give them a try. Let me guess, you are someone that constantly cries boredom as well.



Just because you’re a book reader doesn’t mean you need to be condescending and rude. I’m a book reader, and article reader. I also love my digital entertainment, it’s not a this or that issue of do you like reading or not.
It’s a shortsighted decision by American that has captured customers that they can be entertaining to raise the level of happiness by putting digital media in front of them with advertising and positive branding.
With today’s knowledge of addiction level people have to digital media and if they don’t understand that and how they can use that to help perpetuate the brand is shocking to me.
 
B6JFKH81
Posts: 2096
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:35 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 8:02 pm

I take AA every month to get to work (positive space TPA-MIA-SAL and back) and can speak of the differences in product and crew.

Their legroom is terrible. I check a bag and take a laptop backpack with me that goes under the seat in front of me. I can barely lean forward to adjust my bag to allow my feet to extend. Get the new interior on the B738? Better not hook up your tablet for streaming entertainment before departure or you will get snapped at.

Thank you soooooo much for the 1/2 glass of Coca-Cola and the little bag of stale pretzels.

Waiting an hour for my baggage at MIA after immigracion is such a wonderful thing.

Why do I have to search for a place to charge my phone in MIA? For crying out loud, TPA has charging at like every seat....and a smoking area in every concourse! Really?

In summation, I guess they are trying to be the "Spirit Airlines" of the major world. It's a shame. I had high expectations of their service and crew, and they really have disappointed.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2778
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 9:35 pm

SteelChair wrote:
No one has mentioned that AA has unions and Delta mostly doesn't. Of course, with their management, AA employees are probably in greater need of representation. But still, it seems like unions in the Unites States coddle those who underperform and incite those who complain, leading to lower morale all around, which is hazardous in a service industy.

"Brand purpose" seems like a corporate suite Wall Street buzzword. When you have a dumpster fire operationally and morale-wise, focusing on brand identity is putting lipstick on a pig. If they treated employees better and operated better, the brand identity problem would solve itself.


United has unions as well, BUT United clearly has a brand purpose in courting the business traveler with its Polaris product (among US carriers, United is the most premium-heavy). Of course, they have something that American doesn't: a fortress hub in market #1 at EWR along with a fortress TPAC hub at SFO, while AA has its major Northeast hub at PHL, relying on connections. Likewise, while CLT serves the banking industry of the South, it's only 4 hours from ATL by car.

In the Northeast, American has basically ceded market #1 to Delta and United (NYC being Delta's second largest market after Atlanta) and short-haul traffic at JFK to DL and B6, both with superior products.

Basically, American needs to embrace being a full-service airline and provide a product and price point commensurate with such. Let NK, F9, and G4 chase the ULCC traffic.

I have to wonder what this would look like United merged with US Airways (which almost happened) instead of Continental...the CO merger gave United that fortress hub serving NYC while US would have only provided PHL as a TATL gateway.

A large part of this could start with reconfiguring the narrow-body fleet (other than the 17 JFK-based transcon A321s with 102 seats) to be not-so-cramped, especially the 737-800s and 737 MAX 8s. Between the B38Ms of AA and the B39Ms of UA, there is only a 7-seat difference between the two.
 
Wacker1000
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:36 pm

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Sun May 12, 2019 10:44 pm

B6JFKH81 wrote:
I take AA every month to get to work (positive space TPA-MIA-SAL and back) and can speak of the differences in product and crew.

Their legroom is terrible. I check a bag and take a laptop backpack with me that goes under the seat in front of me. I can barely lean forward to adjust my bag to allow my feet to extend. Get the new interior on the B738? Better not hook up your tablet for streaming entertainment before departure or you will get snapped at.

Thank you soooooo much for the 1/2 glass of Coca-Cola and the little bag of stale pretzels.

Waiting an hour for my baggage at MIA after immigracion is such a wonderful thing.

Why do I have to search for a place to charge my phone in MIA? For crying out loud, TPA has charging at like every seat....and a smoking area in every concourse! Really?

In summation, I guess they are trying to be the "Spirit Airlines" of the major world. It's a shame. I had high expectations of their service and crew, and they really have disappointed.



It would be a real shame if AA got wind of this rave review by someone they're allowing to fly on their metal for free.... ;)
 
B6JFKH81
Posts: 2096
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:35 am

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Mon May 13, 2019 1:22 am

Wacker1000 wrote:
B6JFKH81 wrote:
I take AA every month to get to work (positive space TPA-MIA-SAL and back) and can speak of the differences in product and crew.

Their legroom is terrible. I check a bag and take a laptop backpack with me that goes under the seat in front of me. I can barely lean forward to adjust my bag to allow my feet to extend. Get the new interior on the B738? Better not hook up your tablet for streaming entertainment before departure or you will get snapped at.

Thank you soooooo much for the 1/2 glass of Coca-Cola and the little bag of stale pretzels.

Waiting an hour for my baggage at MIA after immigracion is such a wonderful thing.

Why do I have to search for a place to charge my phone in MIA? For crying out loud, TPA has charging at like every seat....and a smoking area in every concourse! Really?

In summation, I guess they are trying to be the "Spirit Airlines" of the major world. It's a shame. I had high expectations of their service and crew, and they really have disappointed.



It would be a real shame if AA got wind of this rave review by someone they're allowing to fly on their metal for free.... ;)


I don't know if you understood the verbiage "positive space"...that means the seat was PAID FOR.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
soflaflyer
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: American Airlines Admits It Has No Brand Purpose

Mon May 13, 2019 2:30 am

B6JFKH81 wrote:
Wacker1000 wrote:
B6JFKH81 wrote:
I take AA every month to get to work (positive space TPA-MIA-SAL and back) and can speak of the differences in product and crew.

Their legroom is terrible. I check a bag and take a laptop backpack with me that goes under the seat in front of me. I can barely lean forward to adjust my bag to allow my feet to extend. Get the new interior on the B738? Better not hook up your tablet for streaming entertainment before departure or you will get snapped at.

Thank you soooooo much for the 1/2 glass of Coca-Cola and the little bag of stale pretzels.

Waiting an hour for my baggage at MIA after immigracion is such a wonderful thing.

Why do I have to search for a place to charge my phone in MIA? For crying out loud, TPA has charging at like every seat....and a smoking area in every concourse! Really?

In summation, I guess they are trying to be the "Spirit Airlines" of the major world. It's a shame. I had high expectations of their service and crew, and they really have disappointed.



It would be a real shame if AA got wind of this rave review by someone they're allowing to fly on their metal for free.... ;)


I don't know if you understood the verbiage "positive space"...that means the seat was PAID FOR.


In the airline industry, "positive space" means NOT paid for, usually used for airline employees, board members and job candidates among others, typically designated as NRSP (non-revenue space positive). Paid is just referred to as a Revenue Pax.

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