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What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:58 pm
by MCTSET
United are currently operating a 50 strong fleet of 767’s the replacement aircraft will be needed. The 787 is the obvious choice but only 64 aircraft on order/already delivered, does the order book cover the 767 fleet and any future growth?

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:12 am
by TWA772LR
797

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:18 am
by DenverTed
797 on eight hour and below flights, 787 on longer ones.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:33 am
by compensateme
A mixture of 330-800 and 787-8.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:44 am
by ericm2031
They're retrofitting them with new Premium Plus and additional Polaris seats, so I don't think they're going anywhere for awhile. They also just picked up some from HA. This should hold them over until the 797 is available if they go that route.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:48 am
by 777222LR
I honestly think the 787 will filter in as the oldest 767's leave as a stop-gap until a new type is developed.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:52 am
by rjmf22
compensateme wrote:
A mixture of 330-800 and 787-8.


UA is not going to order the A330-800

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:56 am
by B764er
To me the 788 will be the 763 replacement. Sooner or later I'm sure it will come down to that.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:49 am
by rjmf22
B764er wrote:
To me the 788 will be the 763 replacement. Sooner or later I'm sure it will come down to that.


Agreed. I have long thought that UA will do what AA did with their 787's, replacing some 767's as well as some 777's. Depends on if Boeing strikes them a deal or not.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 4:12 am
by American 767
B764er wrote:
To me the 788 will be the 763 replacement. Sooner or later I'm sure it will come down to that.


Yes. And the 789 will be the 772 replacement, as the 78J will eventually be. That's what American is doing now, except that they did not order the 78J. Delta is holding on to their large fleet of 767s, 763ER and 764ERs, but they decided not to buy 787s as 767 replacement in the long run, they chose instead A330NEOs.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 4:28 am
by ericm2031
Is there an official count on future 787 options/purchase rights that UA holds? They keep placing incremental orders, and I'm sure can get almost whatever they want whenever they want, but was wondering if anything was public.

They probably have some of the most experience with the 787-8, and have decided that the retrofit costs and fuel inefficiency of the 767 is more cost effective than new -8's, for the time being.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 8:11 am
by arcticcruiser
The 787-8 at 30% higher OEW than a 767-300ER is going to be way much airplane for a lot of routes. The additional seats on the 788 will be way less than 30% thereby reducing the margins of the 788s lower operating costs. The 788 is a very heavy “plastic” airplane.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 10:46 am
by fun2fly
arcticcruiser wrote:
The 787-8 at 30% higher OEW than a 767-300ER is going to be way much airplane for a lot of routes. The additional seats on the 788 will be way less than 30% thereby reducing the margins of the 788s lower operating costs. The 788 is a very heavy “plastic” airplane.


UA is "testing" this theory with the IAD>CDG and IAD>ZRH routes and will have real performance data. Keep in mind that Boeing did a minor overhaul of the 788 and that was enough for AA, a largest 788 TATL operator, to order more.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 10:49 am
by gatibosgru
My guess would be the 788

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 10:53 am
by fun2fly
B764er wrote:
To me the 788 will be the 763 replacement. Sooner or later I'm sure it will come down to that.


With the Polaris installs on the 763's last year and this year (assuming they finish this year..738Max may preclude that), UA should have the 763 around for another 7-10 years which is plenty of time to get the 797 in service. The 763 retrofits were a stop gap measure after UA looked at a lot of options (New 788's, new 763's, etc.) to replace the 763.

It's also important to note that the 797 will replace most of UA's 29 or so 767's (after the 7 are retired), but also the 50+ 757's they have in the fleet. I think that UA could order 50-75 x 797's. DL, who is asking to be the launch partner on the 797, probably would order 100+. That's a good start for Boeing.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:10 am
by pabloeing
797

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:29 pm
by MCTSET
Many are saying that they will hold out for the 797. But the 797 EIS is 2025 minimum and won’t achieve a significant production rate until 27/28, (that’s without delays). Meaning that the 76’s will have to work roughly another 10 years and with an average age of the 767 at united of 22 years, it means roughly pushing the craft until 30 years of service.

I know that this is possible but as an aircraft reaches these kind of ages maintainence cost and time increases significantly. Not to mention the fuel burn this aircraft will have in 2030, I can only imagine the price of oil then. Fuel burn performance and utilization will also decrease with age. Also the competition will have likely replaced there aging aircraft as well.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:33 pm
by wernerga3
MCTSET wrote:
Many are saying that they will hold out for the 797. But the 797 EIS is 2025 minimum and won’t achieve a significant production rate until 27/28, (that’s without delays). Meaning that the 76’s will have to work roughly another 10 years and with an average age of the 767 at united of 22 years, it means roughly pushing the craft until 30 years of service.

I know that this is possible but as an aircraft reaches these kind of ages maintainence cost and time increases significantly. Not to mention the fuel burn this aircraft will have in 2030, I can only imagine the price of oil then. Fuel burn performance and utilization will also decrease with age. Also the competition will have likely replaced there aging aircraft as well.


If we're still not supersonic (sans boom) by 2030, I'm packing it in.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:11 pm
by Scarebus34
I don’t buy the 797/NMA argument. It’s too far off. Plus, we don’t even know what it’s going to look like yet. Of course, United might but an EIS 2025 or later probably isn’t going to work.

I’d say 321XLR for the 757 replacement and more 788 for the 767 replacement.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:24 pm
by FriscoHeavy
MCTSET wrote:
Many are saying that they will hold out for the 797. But the 797 EIS is 2025 minimum and won’t achieve a significant production rate until 27/28, (that’s without delays). Meaning that the 76’s will have to work roughly another 10 years and with an average age of the 767 at united of 22 years, it means roughly pushing the craft until 30 years of service.

I know that this is possible but as an aircraft reaches these kind of ages maintainence cost and time increases significantly. Not to mention the fuel burn this aircraft will have in 2030, I can only imagine the price of oil then. Fuel burn performance and utilization will also decrease with age. Also the competition will have likely replaced there aging aircraft as well.


It's very likely to be the same price as now or lower (oil prices). Over time, different and better methods for producing oil and other energy sources becomes available.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:50 pm
by marcogr12
Maybe Boeing should restart production line of pax-767,until the 797 is ready, since the 787-8 has proven to be too much...too heavy...too everything..They shouldn't be too quick to make the same mistake they did when they shut down production of 757 (though at the time it was warranted..?),which as it proved 15yrs later,it was not the wisest decision since they never came up with a replacement ..Yes they are working on the 737-10 MAX but still with the current MAX situation...Would be it too complicated and costly to provide airlines with 767s and just maybe produce a modified upgraded version till we have sth more definete where the 797 is considered?

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 6:24 pm
by N649DL
arcticcruiser wrote:
The 787-8 at 30% higher OEW than a 767-300ER is going to be way much airplane for a lot of routes. The additional seats on the 788 will be way less than 30% thereby reducing the margins of the 788s lower operating costs. The 788 is a very heavy “plastic” airplane.


Recall when Dirt bag Jeff Smisek was still around, he wanted the 788 and 789 to replace the 3-Class sUA 763s (now mostly Polaris configured) but still planned on expansion of International routes. It didn't take a Super Hero to realize his words were complete B.S. You couldn't get rid of the 763ER and replace with 787 and then plan on expansion.

The 763ER is basically in a renaissance right now: Even though it's ageing it still has the legs to do long haul routes but still economical as fuel prices remain stable.

I don't think the 763s at UAL are going away anytime soon. They refurbished 763ERs to Polaris almost 2 years ago that were 26 years-old.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 6:39 pm
by lightsaber
marcogr12 wrote:
Maybe Boeing should restart production line of pax-767,until the 797 is ready, since the 787-8 has proven to be too much...too heavy...too everything..They shouldn't be too quick to make the same mistake they did when they shut down production of 757 (though at the time it was warranted..?),which as it proved 15yrs later,it was not the wisest decision since they never came up with a replacement ..Yes they are working on the 737-10 MAX but still with the current MAX situation...Would be it too complicated and costly to provide airlines with 767s and just maybe produce a modified upgraded version till we have sth more definete where the 797 is considered?

UA wanted 767s for a certain price on a certain delivery schedule. The vendors today are overloaded. So a short term low profit job was a big no thank you.



Lightsaber

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 8:13 pm
by MIflyer12
MCTSET wrote:

Not to mention the fuel burn this aircraft will have in 2030, I can only imagine the price of oil then.


That's correct - you can only imagine. There are no accurate forecasts of oil prices ten years into the future.

If you were expecting somebody to say the replacement will be a 321XLR nobody's taking the bait.

788/9s look like a logical choice (already in the fleet) in the gap between certain 763s aging out and 797s being ready.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 8:36 pm
by flyingclrs727
lightsaber wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
Maybe Boeing should restart production line of pax-767,until the 797 is ready, since the 787-8 has proven to be too much...too heavy...too everything..They shouldn't be too quick to make the same mistake they did when they shut down production of 757 (though at the time it was warranted..?),which as it proved 15yrs later,it was not the wisest decision since they never came up with a replacement ..Yes they are working on the 737-10 MAX but still with the current MAX situation...Would be it too complicated and costly to provide airlines with 767s and just maybe produce a modified upgraded version till we have sth more definete where the 797 is considered?

UA wanted 767s for a certain price on a certain delivery schedule. The vendors today are overloaded. So a short term low profit job was a big no thank you.



Lightsaber



And it wasn't like making orders for 767 passenger variant only parts would extend production of items at the end of their run. The produdtion lines and tools necessary were either stored or destroyed. Restarting producion of those items plus spares would cost more money to reestablish produciton.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 8:54 pm
by MCTSET
MIflyer12 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:

Not to mention the fuel burn this aircraft will have in 2030, I can only imagine the price of oil then.


That's correct - you can only imagine. There are no accurate forecasts of oil prices ten years into the future.

If you were expecting somebody to say the replacement will be a 321XLR nobody's taking the bait.

788/9s look like a logical choice (already in the fleet) in the gap between certain 763s aging out and 797s being ready.



Demand for oil is ever increasing during growth and even recession of the world economy. Improving technology for oil production only improves cost efficiency. There have been no new major oil discoveries over the past few years. Supply and demand, and only one of them is increasing. And no i was not implying that a 200 seat narrow body can replace the 767, the 757 that’s another story.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:04 pm
by strfyr51
MCTSET wrote:
United are currently operating a 50 strong fleet of 767’s the replacement aircraft will be needed. The 787 is the obvious choice but only 64 aircraft on order/already delivered, does the order book cover the 767 fleet and any future growth?

well OBVIOUSLY the 787-8 is not the 767 replacement or they'd have already ordered it!! They're looking for the B797 to replace the B767 and until then? They can keep flying the B767-300 and -400. The airplanes are amortized and as long as they can still get parts? There isn't a problem. There are no major AD notes
(Airworthiness Directives) that might cause them to retire them, SO? Fly them as long as they can maintain them. Dock 3 at SFO can keep them working.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:32 pm
by MCTSET
strfyr51 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
United are currently operating a 50 strong fleet of 767’s the replacement aircraft will be needed. The 787 is the obvious choice but only 64 aircraft on order/already delivered, does the order book cover the 767 fleet and any future growth?

well OBVIOUSLY the 787-8 is not the 767 replacement or they'd have already ordered it!! They're looking for the B797 to replace the B767 and until then? They can keep flying the B767-300 and -400. The airplanes are amortized and as long as they can still get parts? There isn't a problem. There are no major AD notes
(Airworthiness Directives) that might cause them to retire them, SO? Fly them as long as they can maintain them. Dock 3 at SFO can keep them working.



American with the 787 and DL with the 330neo, how long can you push these planes when your competitors are a generation more efficient than you?

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 10:02 pm
by strfyr51
MCTSET wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
United are currently operating a 50 strong fleet of 767’s the replacement aircraft will be needed. The 787 is the obvious choice but only 64 aircraft on order/already delivered, does the order book cover the 767 fleet and any future growth?

well OBVIOUSLY the 787-8 is not the 767 replacem3ent or they'd have already ordered it!! They're looking for the B797 to replace the B767 and until then? They can keep flying the B767-300 and -400. The airplanes are amortized and as long as they can still get parts? There isn't a problem. There are no major AD notes
(Airworthiness Directives) that might cause them to retire them, SO? Fly them as long as they can maintain them. Dock 3 at SFO can keep them working.



American with the 787 and DL with the 330neo, how long can you push these planes when your competitors are a generation more efficient than you?


Says WHO they're more efficient? In what way? Exactly? I've maintained the B767-200 and -300.. What airplanes are any easier to maintain?
The Airframes are not life limited and the Engines certainly aren't . Especially since all the United 763's are PW4060 powered and the Air force Tankers are also PW powered. So?is it Parts? NO. Is it Technology? NO! As many Modifications as you can name? Can be retrofitted to the B763's and B764's at United to keep them relevant. And? At a fraction of the cost of new airplanes. And what airplane at present can really replace the B767 efficiently? Certainly NOT the A321 without 40 extra fuel tanks in the cargo compartment name the airplane? the A330 is too big so what airplane? None but the B797. So? I'll bet they wait!! If you can make a case with REAL Facts? I'd be more than interested to see it. Until then? It's just your Opinion, And? I can't agree with you.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:57 am
by dmstorm22
MCTSET wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
United are currently operating a 50 strong fleet of 767’s the replacement aircraft will be needed. The 787 is the obvious choice but only 64 aircraft on order/already delivered, does the order book cover the 767 fleet and any future growth?

well OBVIOUSLY the 787-8 is not the 767 replacement or they'd have already ordered it!! They're looking for the B797 to replace the B767 and until then? They can keep flying the B767-300 and -400. The airplanes are amortized and as long as they can still get parts? There isn't a problem. There are no major AD notes
(Airworthiness Directives) that might cause them to retire them, SO? Fly them as long as they can maintain them. Dock 3 at SFO can keep them working.



American with the 787 and DL with the 330neo, how long can you push these planes when your competitors are a generation more efficient than you?


Yes, because of course neither AA or DL flies 767s anymore, and of course UA doesn't fly all three models of the 787

You're right, UA is just way behind

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:33 am
by MCTSET
strfyr51 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
well OBVIOUSLY the 787-8 is not the 767 replacem3ent or they'd have already ordered it!! They're looking for the B797 to replace the B767 and until then? They can keep flying the B767-300 and -400. The airplanes are amortized and as long as they can still get parts? There isn't a problem. There are no major AD notes
(Airworthiness Directives) that might cause them to retire them, SO? Fly them as long as they can maintain them. Dock 3 at SFO can keep them working.



American with the 787 and DL with the 330neo, how long can you push these planes when your competitors are a generation more efficient than you?


Says WHO they're more efficient? In what way? Exactly? I've maintained the B767-200 and -300.. What airplanes are any easier to maintain?
The Airframes are not life limited and the Engines certainly aren't . Especially since all the United 763's are PW4060 powered and the Air force Tankers are also PW powered. So?is it Parts? NO. Is it Technology? NO! As many Modifications as you can name? Can be retrofitted to the B763's and B764's at United to keep them relevant. And? At a fraction of the cost of new airplanes. And what airplane at present can really replace the B767 efficiently? Certainly NOT the A321 without 40 extra fuel tanks in the cargo compartment name the airplane? the A330 is too big so what airplane? None but the B797. So? I'll bet they wait!! If you can make a case with REAL Facts? I'd be more than interested to see it. Until then? It's just your Opinion, And? I can't agree with you.



If the 767 is just as efficient as the 787 how come the order book for the 787 is packed, while the 767 is well...

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 11:15 am
by AaronPGH
I love flying UA's 767s. Most comfortable economy class there is for TATL, and even better now that they're getting Polaris and Premium Plus.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:33 pm
by Texas77
[code][/code]
AaronPGH wrote:
I love flying UA's 767s. Most comfortable economy class there is for TATL, and even better now that they're getting Polaris and Premium Plus.


I agree! love flying 767. Will be on one later this month, but only to IAD. now, JAL 767? no thanks. and the ANA 787 was much more comfortable than their 767s...

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 3:19 pm
by strfyr51
MCTSET wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
wanted to replace it with the

American with the 787 and DL with the 330neo, how long can you push these planes when your competitors are a generation more efficient than you?


Says WHO they're more efficient? In what way? Exactly? I've maintained the B767-200 and -300.. What airplanes are any easier to maintain?
The Airframes are not life limited and the Engines certainly aren't . Especially since all the United 763's are PW4060 powered and the Air force Tankers are also PW powered. So?is it Parts? NO. Is it Technology? NO! As many Modifications as you can name? Can be retrofitted to the B763's and B764's at United to keep them relevant. And? At a fraction of the cost of new airplanes. And what airplane at present can really replace the B767 efficiently? Certainly NOT the A321 without 40 extra fuel tanks in the cargo compartment name the airplane? the A330 is too big so what airplane? None but the B797. So? I'll bet they wait!! If you can make a case with REAL Facts? I'd be more than interested to see it. Until then? It's just your Opinion, And? I can't agree with you.



If the 767 is just as efficient as the 787 how come the order book for the 787 is packed, while the 767 is well...


I didn't say that, I said the 767 can still fly at a profit and if United wanted to replace it with the 787? They could and probably quickly. But the 767 will more than likely be replaced by the 797 so until then? What is wrong with flying the 767 as we can still get parts for it? There's no need to rush it when the airplane isn't in any danger of being grounded anytime soon.. And? There's no direct replacement for it... Unless? Boeing announces the B787-3 again and builds it in the next 5 minutes. (and we all know that's not gonna happen!!) The 797 is based on the 767 with digital updating over the mostly analog 767. When it hits the streets?
I'll bet GOOD Money we're near the front door to order it, And? I'm sure with Boeing Right around the corner from United's WHQ? They'll come over like they always do. I don't have a worry in the world about what will replace the B767-300 and -400. So? Why not just wait and see?? Unless you want another
""A vs B"" again, And isn't that getting a little old?

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 3:32 pm
by SteelChair
The only replacement for a 767 is another 767. Everything else is either bigger or smaller.

I'm a believer in 7 abreast seating for medium range airplanes, no matter what the bean counters say.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 3:43 pm
by MCTSET
strfyr51 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:

Says WHO they're more efficient? In what way? Exactly? I've maintained the B767-200 and -300.. What airplanes are any easier to maintain?
The Airframes are not life limited and the Engines certainly aren't . Especially since all the United 763's are PW4060 powered and the Air force Tankers are also PW powered. So?is it Parts? NO. Is it Technology? NO! As many Modifications as you can name? Can be retrofitted to the B763's and B764's at United to keep them relevant. And? At a fraction of the cost of new airplanes. And what airplane at present can really replace the B767 efficiently? Certainly NOT the A321 without 40 extra fuel tanks in the cargo compartment name the airplane? the A330 is too big so what airplane? None but the B797. So? I'll bet they wait!! If you can make a case with REAL Facts? I'd be more than interested to see it. Until then? It's just your Opinion, And? I can't agree with you.



If the 767 is just as efficient as the 787 how come the order book for the 787 is packed, while the 767 is well...


I didn't say that, I said the 767 can still fly at a profit and if United wanted to replace it with the 787? They could and probably quickly. But the 767 will more than likely be replaced by the 797 so until then? What is wrong with flying the 767 as we can still get parts for it? There's no need to rush it when the airplane isn't in any danger of being grounded anytime soon.. And? There's no direct replacement for it... Unless? Boeing announces the B787-3 again and builds it in the next 5 minutes. (and we all know that's not gonna happen!!) The 797 is based on the 767 with digital updating over the mostly analog 767. When it hits the streets?
I'll bet GOOD Money we're near the front door to order it, And? I'm sure with Boeing Right around the corner from United's WHQ? They'll come over like they always do. I don't have a worry in the world about what will replace the B767-300 and -400. So? Why not just wait and see?? Unless you want another
""A vs B"" again, And isn't that getting a little old?


I started the thread out of curiosity of people’s opinions I’m not trying to start and A vs B war. I agree that the 797 is the best replacement, however late it may be. I’m also interested in the fact that you stated that the 797 will be a digital update of the 767. As in you don’t think they will design a new carbon fibre wing and fuselage. Maybe in the situation that Boeing is in the best solution would be to update the 767 with new engines and aerodynamic tweaks, add carbon here and there where it will reduce weight without increasing cost and production complexity while getting the plane out to the market ASAP, at the lower price than a clean sheet design. Basically a 767neo but named the 797. It will also give airbus a harder time in responding as they are most likely expecting Boeing the make a clean sheet design, while they take there time and drop the 322 and 321xlr a cheap price. Just thoughts however...

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 4:29 pm
by jayunited
I know the UA fleet/network thread is extremely long but there is information in that thread which came directly from Scott Kirby’s SFO Town Hall part of which was posted on Flying Together.
A brief synopsis is this United has not officially announced anything but according to Kirby some 763/4’s will be replaced by 788’s, some 757’s will be replaced by 737-MAX10’s. However there are about 30-40 frames in the fleet where neither the 788 or the 757 is the perfect fit. For now UA is looking at Boeing’s NMA as a replacement for those 30-40 frames but if Boeing fails to deliver from a performance standpoint then UA will go with the A321/LR.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 5:30 pm
by dmstorm22
jayunited wrote:
I know the UA fleet/network thread is extremely long but there is information in that thread which came directly from Scott Kirby’s SFO Town Hall part of which was posted on Flying Together.
A brief synopsis is this United has not officially announced anything but according to Kirby some 763/4’s will be replaced by 788’s, some 757’s will be replaced by 737-MAX10’s. However there are about 30-40 frames in the fleet where neither the 788 or the 757 is the perfect fit. For now UA is looking at Boeing’s NMA as a replacement for those 30-40 frames but if Boeing fails to deliver from a performance standpoint then UA will go with the A321/LR.



Is the plan then to order more B788's? There's none currently on order I believe.

There's probably still some years life left in the B767s anyway.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 5:53 pm
by CRJ900
Does Boeing offer a "Regional" lower-MTOW B787-8 (like Airbus now does with the 250T MTOW A359) so that UA can use them on trans-con and TATL and pay lower fees based on weights?

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 6:19 pm
by xxcr
CRJ900 wrote:
Does Boeing offer a "Regional" lower-MTOW B787-8 (like Airbus now does with the 250T MTOW A359) so that UA can use them on trans-con and TATL and pay lower fees based on weights?



Boeing did offer the 787-3 as a domestic version of the 788 but that program got cancelled. That would of been a good contender for UA to replace the 763 for TATL flights

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 6:43 pm
by HIA350
rjmf22 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
A mixture of 330-800 and 787-8.


UA is not going to order the A330-800

why not? I believe the 800 is cheaper than the dash 8


https://www.aviatorjoe.net/go/compare/A ... neo/787-8/

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 6:57 pm
by MCTSET
jayunited wrote:
I know the UA fleet/network thread is extremely long but there is information in that thread which came directly from Scott Kirby’s SFO Town Hall part of which was posted on Flying Together.
A brief synopsis is this United has not officially announced anything but according to Kirby some 763/4’s will be replaced by 788’s, some 757’s will be replaced by 737-MAX10’s. However there are about 30-40 frames in the fleet where neither the 788 or the 757 is the perfect fit. For now UA is looking at Boeing’s NMA as a replacement for those 30-40 frames but if Boeing fails to deliver from a performance standpoint then UA will go with the A321/LR.



Thanks for the insight. I still can’t get my head around the 321 replacing the 767. Yes it may have 24523 fuel tanks but it will still significantly have less payload. The 767 can haul 40 to 45 metric while the 320 is only 20 too 25 tops. The 767 can move 10000km roughly while the 321 can only go 7400km. I understand that it can probably go further with more tanks but guess what has to give. The 321 is perfect for transcon, and nearby South America, but to haul anything meaningful across the Atlantic. :scratchchin:

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 6:59 pm
by xxcr
HIA350 wrote:
rjmf22 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
A mixture of 330-800 and 787-8.


UA is not going to order the A330-800

why not? I believe the 800 is cheaper than the dash 8


https://www.aviatorjoe.net/go/compare/A ... neo/787-8/


I dont see UA ordering the A330-800. that plane is too big to replace the 763.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 8:42 pm
by jayunited
dmstorm22 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
I know the UA fleet/network thread is extremely long but there is information in that thread which came directly from Scott Kirby’s SFO Town Hall part of which was posted on Flying Together.
A brief synopsis is this United has not officially announced anything but according to Kirby some 763/4’s will be replaced by 788’s, some 757’s will be replaced by 737-MAX10’s. However there are about 30-40 frames in the fleet where neither the 788 or the 757 is the perfect fit. For now UA is looking at Boeing’s NMA as a replacement for those 30-40 frames but if Boeing fails to deliver from a performance standpoint then UA will go with the A321/LR.



Is the plan then to order more B788's? There's none currently on order I believe.

There's probably still some years life left in the B767s anyway.


From the SFO town hall Kirby made it seem as though that is the plan to order more 788s (on a quick side note the total capacity of the 788/9s will drop once UA begins installing Polaris and Premium Plus). I haven't seen the final seat map but there was talk that UA would keep the same number of business class seats and reduce the number of coach and economy plus seat to accommodate Polaris and Premium Plus. UA has quite a few MAX10s on order so some of those will replace some not all of the 757s more than likely on domestic routes. However I got the sense from watching the town hall that UA is waiting for more concrete information from Boeing and for Boeing to officially launch the NMA before announcing the additional 788 order and either an order for the NMA or A321/LR. Hopefully we will have an official answer in the next 10-12 months. According to Kirby this is the last part of UA's fleet renewal plan that hasn't been set in stone. Most of the A320/19s are staying we are also acquiring used frames, the 737NGs all models are staying, MAX9/10s are arriving as are more 77Ws and 789s. Also the A359 will begin to replace the 772/Es starting in 2022, this leaves only the 763/4s and some of the 757s with no replacement, we just have to be patient for few more months maybe a year and then we should know for sure what will replace some of the 763/4s and 757s in UA fleet.

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 9:16 pm
by rjmf22
HIA350 wrote:
rjmf22 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
A mixture of 330-800 and 787-8.


UA is not going to order the A330-800

why not? I believe the 800 is cheaper than the dash 8


https://www.aviatorjoe.net/go/compare/A ... neo/787-8/


Because United already has 787's in their fleet. Why would they order a plane they aren't familiar with, when they can order a plane that they are familiar with, with a potential discount?

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 2:57 am
by jetblastdubai
xxcr wrote:

Boeing did offer the 787-3 as a domestic version of the 788 but that program got cancelled. That would of been a good contender for UA to replace the 763 for TATL flights


The original 787-3 actually had a relatively limited range that would probably exclude it from consideration for TATL ops. (approx. 3,000 NM) The shorter wingspan, with winglets, would have allowed the -3 to fit in code D gates which would be a huge benefit for UA at ORD and possibly EWR.

Add some fuel capacity and the -3 would probably meet the 767 replacement needs nicely.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_78 ... iner#787-3

Re: What will replace United's 767’s

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:03 pm
by HIA350
rjmf22 wrote:
HIA350 wrote:
rjmf22 wrote:

UA is not going to order the A330-800

why not? I believe the 800 is cheaper than the dash 8


https://www.aviatorjoe.net/go/compare/A ... neo/787-8/


Because United already has 787's in their fleet. Why would they order a plane they aren't familiar with, when they can order a plane that they are familiar with, with a potential discount?



Airbus could give a big discount plus, united has a lot of 319 and 320s that are getting there in term of age, there is not a lot of training when a pilot goes from 320 to 330