red66mustang
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WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 9:07 pm

WN posted on their Facebook this afternoon their intention to serve ITO. No information about start date or markets served yet.

https://www.facebook.com/6806028948/pos ... 49?sfns=mo
 
flyiguy
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 9:09 pm

I’m sure Kauai and Lanai won’t be be far behind either.

FLY
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
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jaybird
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 9:16 pm

Lanai? I doubt it .. there's not enough traffic for a 737 ..
 
allegiantflyer
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 9:23 pm

ITO as inter island spoke or to California? I think ITO would be a great place for an LCC like WN, but I’m sure ITO is more local based and less focused on tourism.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 9:23 pm

flyiguy wrote:
I’m sure Kauai and Lanai won’t be be far behind either.

FLY


Maybe one flight a year...... I don’t even think a 737 can land and takeoff from lanai
 
RJNUT
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 9:30 pm

I remember when HNL and ITO WERE the two only gateways to the mainland!
 
BravoOne
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 9:32 pm

ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 9:42 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
flyiguy wrote:
I’m sure Kauai and Lanai won’t be be far behind either.

FLY


Maybe one flight a year...... I don’t even think a 737 can land and takeoff from lanai


The runway length is 5,001 feet at virtually sea level, similar to SNA which has EWR-SNA on a 737. And while I agree that the demand is going to be quite low, I know LNY has handled Hawaiian DC-9's in the past.

Many years ago Southwest interlined with ATA at OAK on their Hawai'i flights, and one of these flights was ATA's ITO-OAK. I considered taking this itinerary (SAN-OAK-ITO); however, it was significantly more expensive than United & Hawaiian at HNL/SFO. ATA was gone shortly after that, and the Hawai'i connection was gone.
 
SkyVoice
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 9:48 pm

BravoOne wrote:
ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.


With apologies to coach Lee Corso, "Not so fast, my friend!" It's true that ITO was the only other gateway to the mainland besides HNL, but that was back during the days of airline regulation. ITO is not able to support widebody service & will be eschewed by sun worshippers, but many people--both locals & tourists--claim that Hilo is where to go to experience the REAL Hawai'i, apart from the stampede of visitors. The airport has plenty of capacity & the motels & restaurants are predominately mom-and-pop operations. So, go to Hilo, mingle with the locals, enjoy the "liquid sunshine," then visit the volcanoes & the black sand beaches!

Then, come back to A*Net & post a trip report! -SkyVoice
"Your talents may take you where your character can not keep you." - Terry Nelson
 
obelau24
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 9:55 pm

Could you imagine launching multiple-daily $98RT service HNL/OGG-ITO the week before Merrie Monarch with connections at HNL from LIH? Sponsorship of the festivities and 2 free bags per pax from all the halau would seal the deal for WN in inter island travel.

Partially stirring the pot but also looking forward to honest competition.
 
Antarius
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 9:56 pm

BravoOne wrote:
ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.


ITO also only has one flight to the mainland on UA. Hilo is also the second largest city in Hawaii.

I dont think ITO will be getting 2 widebodies a day, or a lot of beach tourists, but this could work.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHTYYZ DEN DOH BLR MAA TXL MEX
 
Cubsrule
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 10:08 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
flyiguy wrote:
I’m sure Kauai and Lanai won’t be be far behind either.

FLY


Maybe one flight a year...... I don’t even think a 737 can land and takeoff from lanai


The runway length is 5,001 feet at virtually sea level, similar to SNA which has EWR-SNA on a 737. And while I agree that the demand is going to be quite low, I know LNY has handled Hawaiian DC-9's in the past.


LNY would work for interisland on 738s (though I’m not sure of point of it). Flying to the mainland would be difficult.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
sprxUSA
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 10:10 pm

ITO is only place in HI that interests me anymore. Been to HNL and OGL so glad if it happens.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
MIflyer12
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 10:30 pm

Antarius wrote:
Hilo is also the second largest city in Hawaii.


Air demand in Hawaii is driven by tourism, not local population. That the Hilo MSA (all of the Big Island) has 185K people isn't irrelevant. KOA and ITO didn't handle 4 million passengers last year by that 185K flying frequently.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 10:47 pm

I've said this before but anyone who thinks that Southwest will be a major threat to HA does not know Hawaii government. I would be extremely surprised if WN got any bigger than the current presence in Hawaii.
 
Antarius
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 11:01 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Hilo is also the second largest city in Hawaii.


Air demand in Hawaii is driven by tourism, not local population. That the Hilo MSA (all of the Big Island) has 185K people isn't irrelevant. KOA and ITO didn't handle 4 million passengers last year by that 185K flying frequently.


Yes. And citing that sole line of my post as a standalone is not exactly representative of my full opinion or post.

I'm not advocating for a bevy of 777s to ITO.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHTYYZ DEN DOH BLR MAA TXL MEX
 
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SANFan
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 11:06 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
I've said this before but anyone who thinks that Southwest will be a major threat to HA does not know Hawaii government. I would be extremely surprised if WN got any bigger than the current presence in Hawaii.

You could be right.

I've given up waiting to see -- or caring -- if SAN will ever become part of WN's HI route map. This whole thing has gone on way to long for me to maintain any interest in what, if anything, happens next....

bb
 
mga707
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 11:10 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Hilo is also the second largest city in Hawaii.


Air demand in Hawaii is driven by tourism, not local population. That the Hilo MSA (all of the Big Island) has 185K people isn't irrelevant. KOA and ITO didn't handle 4 million passengers last year by that 185K flying frequently.


On the main interisland routes (HNL-LIH/OGG/KOA/ITO) are there figures that show what percentage of passengers are island residents versus tourists? Resident traffic would have to be a significant part of the total, as there are no ferries between the main islands.
 
Jshank83
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 11:10 pm

SANFan wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
I've said this before but anyone who thinks that Southwest will be a major threat to HA does not know Hawaii government. I would be extremely surprised if WN got any bigger than the current presence in Hawaii.

You could be right.

I've given up waiting to see -- or caring -- if SAN will ever become part of WN's HI route map. This whole thing has gone on way to long for me to maintain any interest in what, if anything, happens next....

bb


I am sure SAN will be added once the MAX situation gets fixed. They aren't going to want extra planes tied up on Hawaii legs when they are down planes. I would imagine that is why the next extension got pushed back. They are hoping they have a MAX start date by the time they release it.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 11:14 pm

SkyVoice wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.


With apologies to coach Lee Corso, "Not so fast, my friend!" It's true that ITO was the only other gateway to the mainland besides HNL, but that was back during the days of airline regulation. ITO is not able to support widebody service & will be eschewed by sun worshippers, but many people--both locals & tourists--claim that Hilo is where to go to experience the REAL Hawai'i, apart from the stampede of visitors. The airport has plenty of capacity & the motels & restaurants are predominately mom-and-pop operations. So, go to Hilo, mingle with the locals, enjoy the "liquid sunshine," then visit the volcanoes & the black sand beaches!

Then, come back to A*Net & post a trip report! -SkyVoice


I went to Hilo a couple of years ago and was pretty blown away. The beaches are not really beaches and the town has a slightly run down feel as though the world had moved on and left Hilo behind, but the atmosphere is so totally different to the main tourist markets. It was really endearing. The easy access to the volcanoes was the cherry on top.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sat May 11, 2019 11:36 pm

It might only be interisland flights from ITO. Honestly, that's what I would expect. Definitely a lot more routes to start first (LIH/KOA -Mainland) before any ITO-Mainland flights.
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Silver1SWA
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 12:04 am

SANFan wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
I've said this before but anyone who thinks that Southwest will be a major threat to HA does not know Hawaii government. I would be extremely surprised if WN got any bigger than the current presence in Hawaii.

You could be right.

I've given up waiting to see -- or caring -- if SAN will ever become part of WN's HI route map. This whole thing has gone on way to long for me to maintain any interest in what, if anything, happens next....

bb


They can’t move forward because the planes intended for the service are grounded. Once a return to service timeline is established there will be a better idea of when we can expect to see the other cities added to the mix and my guess is it will happen very quickly like the initial launch after ETOPS approval. But until then I have a feeling what we have as of tomorrow is it for a while.

First the government shutdown and now the MAX groundings. They can’t catch a break.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Planes4you
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 1:45 am

SkyVoice wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.


With apologies to coach Lee Corso, "Not so fast, my friend!" It's true that ITO was the only other gateway to the mainland besides HNL, but that was back during the days of airline regulation. ITO is not able to support widebody service & will be eschewed by sun worshippers, but many people--both locals & tourists--claim that Hilo is where to go to experience the REAL Hawai'i, apart from the stampede of visitors. The airport has plenty of capacity & the motels & restaurants are predominately mom-and-pop operations. So, go to Hilo, mingle with the locals, enjoy the "liquid sunshine," then visit the volcanoes & the black sand beaches!

Then, come back to A*Net & post a trip report! -SkyVoice



Your the 1st person I’ve seen reference lee corso on this site
 
N353SK
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 1:52 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
The runway length is 5,001 feet at virtually sea level, similar to SNA which has EWR-SNA on a 737. And while I agree that the demand is going to be quite low, I know LNY has handled Hawaiian DC-9's in the past.


5,001 is a lot closer to Key West (5,076) than Orange County (5,701).
 
DarthLobster
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 1:58 am

Next up, Kahoolawe and Moloniki. They’ll make just as much money.
 
BNORD1
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 2:57 am

United flew DC-8s and Pan Am flew 707s LAX to ITO early 1970s flew each several times
 
BNORD1
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 3:06 am

Flew out of ITO once on PA when Kilauea was making a mess, we flew one complete circle over Kilauea, right after take off before heading to LAX. Hilo was always more
"old Hawaii" and was the jump off point to see the volcanoes and the drive to Kona
 
RJNUT
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 3:39 am

..and Northwest flew SEA-ITO with Boeing 707;s
 
WN732
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 3:41 am

DarthLobster wrote:
Next up, Kahoolawe and Moloniki. They’ll make just as much money.


Except Kahoolawe is one giant bomb. Should make for some interesting landings.
 
mga707
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 3:44 am

RJNUT wrote:
..and Northwest flew SEA-ITO with Boeing 707;s


Western flew there also from 1969 until deregulation, also with 707s.
 
B1168
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 3:48 am

I do want to ask a question. Is it possible for WN to use their 737 MAX 7 to fly between DFW and Hawaii? I see limited destination selections on AA, and I hope WN can improve it a bit using smaller aircrafts.
 
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RWA380
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 4:08 am

RJNUT wrote:
..and Northwest flew SEA-ITO with Boeing 707;s


And later on with the DC-10's round robin SEA-ITO-PDX-SEA.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
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9w748capt
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 4:11 am

B1168 wrote:
I do want to ask a question. Is it possible for WN to use their 737 MAX 7 to fly between DFW and Hawaii? I see limited destination selections on AA, and I hope WN can improve it a bit using smaller aircrafts.


Huh? AA serves HNL and OGG multiple times per day year round and adds KOA in high season. Find another mid-continent airport with that much Hawaii service?
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 4:12 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
Maybe one flight a year...... I don’t even think a 737 can land and takeoff from lanai


Aloha tried Lanai with the 737 at one point as well, I believe prior to Hawaiian going there with the DC-9 as mentioned above.

Lanai is an interesting market. The resorts are so upscale I can see how many of their guests might prefer a jet to a small prop. But I suspect that niche is now satisfied by Mokulele’s Lanai Air PC-12 service, where at least if you can’t have a jet, you can have a semi-private fast turboprop.
 
9w748capt
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 4:13 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
SkyVoice wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.


With apologies to coach Lee Corso, "Not so fast, my friend!" It's true that ITO was the only other gateway to the mainland besides HNL, but that was back during the days of airline regulation. ITO is not able to support widebody service & will be eschewed by sun worshippers, but many people--both locals & tourists--claim that Hilo is where to go to experience the REAL Hawai'i, apart from the stampede of visitors. The airport has plenty of capacity & the motels & restaurants are predominately mom-and-pop operations. So, go to Hilo, mingle with the locals, enjoy the "liquid sunshine," then visit the volcanoes & the black sand beaches!

Then, come back to A*Net & post a trip report! -SkyVoice


I went to Hilo a couple of years ago and was pretty blown away. The beaches are not really beaches and the town has a slightly run down feel as though the world had moved on and left Hilo behind, but the atmosphere is so totally different to the main tourist markets. It was really endearing. The easy access to the volcanoes was the cherry on top.


Hilo and Volcano village are on our list for our next trip to Hawaii. We've seen and done the chain hotel/touristy beach thing. Would love to experience a whole new side of Hawaii.
 
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usxguy
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 6:37 am

Southwest made a big splash today in Waikiki and sponsored Sunset on the Beach, had a bunch of swag passed out and 2 big booths. Hilo of course was part of the festivities.
xx
 
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intotheair
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 7:09 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Maybe one flight a year...... I don’t even think a 737 can land and takeoff from lanai


Aloha tried Lanai with the 737 at one point as well, I believe prior to Hawaiian going there with the DC-9 as mentioned above.

Lanai is an interesting market. The resorts are so upscale I can see how many of their guests might prefer a jet to a small prop. But I suspect that niche is now satisfied by Mokulele’s Lanai Air PC-12 service, where at least if you can’t have a jet, you can have a semi-private fast turboprop.


The resorts there are such a scam. There’s very little to see after Dole destroyed the island, and the resorts are extremely mediocre for what they are. Your time would be much better spent elsewhere in Hawaii.

With that said, I thought the ferry was perfectly fine, and I have trouble seeing Lanai being able to justify mainline service anytime soon. Maybe when the native vegetation grows back in a few decades.
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JDub
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 7:25 am

Hilo has no hotels, and not much to offer tourist except the volcano. This will be a small hinterland route, no way they go to Hilo before Kona and then Lihue.
 
Antarius
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 7:54 am

9w748capt wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
SkyVoice wrote:

With apologies to coach Lee Corso, "Not so fast, my friend!" It's true that ITO was the only other gateway to the mainland besides HNL, but that was back during the days of airline regulation. ITO is not able to support widebody service & will be eschewed by sun worshippers, but many people--both locals & tourists--claim that Hilo is where to go to experience the REAL Hawai'i, apart from the stampede of visitors. The airport has plenty of capacity & the motels & restaurants are predominately mom-and-pop operations. So, go to Hilo, mingle with the locals, enjoy the "liquid sunshine," then visit the volcanoes & the black sand beaches!

Then, come back to A*Net & post a trip report! -SkyVoice


I went to Hilo a couple of years ago and was pretty blown away. The beaches are not really beaches and the town has a slightly run down feel as though the world had moved on and left Hilo behind, but the atmosphere is so totally different to the main tourist markets. It was really endearing. The easy access to the volcanoes was the cherry on top.


Hilo and Volcano village are on our list for our next trip to Hawaii. We've seen and done the chain hotel/touristy beach thing. Would love to experience a whole new side of Hawaii.


IMO, the Big Island is the best part of Hawaii between Mauna Kea and Volcano.

Personally, other than PHH, and the big island, theres no point in flying 8 hours from DFW or ATL or other mid continent hubs to Hawaii for the beach. Go to Turks and Caicos.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHTYYZ DEN DOH BLR MAA TXL MEX
 
77H
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 8:37 am

Antarius wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.


ITO also only has one flight to the mainland on UA. Hilo is also the second largest city in Hawaii.

I dont think ITO will be getting 2 widebodies a day, or a lot of beach tourists, but this could work.


UA used to operate SFO-ITO too but dropped the route. Loads on their LAX flight aren’t exactly anything to write home about either. If there was enough demand to/from ITO why haven’t we seen AS or HA start service, or even UA resume SFO? It should be telling that almost every airline dropped ITO immediately after deregulation and all but UA have never come back.

Demand to and from ITO is, and will be interisland, not the mainland. At the end of the day, visitors are going to fly into and stay on the Kona Coast. Windward Hawaii, including the Hamakua Coast, Hilo and Volcano NP are worth a visit, but can be accomplished as a day trip in the rental car.

For posters questioning LNY service... out of the question. The island’s infrastructure is not set up for bulk tourism like Oahu, Maui, Kauai or the Kona Coast. Even local demand is limited. There is a reason “hometown” HA only flies AT4s to LNY rather than the 712, and it’s not the runway length.

77H
 
Chasensfo
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 9:09 am

Wow.

Seeing as UA couldn't make a Saturday-only 737-800 on SFO-ITO work with vast connections from the West Coast, I would be shocked to see Southwest be successful in Oakland. LAX, perhaps, but not the Bay Area/Northern California. In the past, ATA flew OAK-ITO scheduled and I think Aloha may have, but Hilo seems to have really wound down as a mainland vacation destination with Kona so popular. This will be interesting, good luck to them. Making it work would truly be the "Southwest effect", attracting pax to Hilo just by flying there.
 
77H
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 9:23 am

Antarius wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

I went to Hilo a couple of years ago and was pretty blown away. The beaches are not really beaches and the town has a slightly run down feel as though the world had moved on and left Hilo behind, but the atmosphere is so totally different to the main tourist markets. It was really endearing. The easy access to the volcanoes was the cherry on top.


Hilo and Volcano village are on our list for our next trip to Hawaii. We've seen and done the chain hotel/touristy beach thing. Would love to experience a whole new side of Hawaii.


IMO, the Big Island is the best part of Hawaii between Mauna Kea and Volcano.

Personally, other than PHH, and the big island, theres no point in flying 8 hours from DFW or ATL or other mid continent hubs to Hawaii for the beach. Go to Turks and Caicos.


And yet there is nonstop service from BOS, JFK, EWR, ATL, ORD, MSP, DFW, IAH and DEN, with DTW starting in a few months, all on WB aircraft. UA has upgraded DEN-OGG to a 77A and the latest OAG thread indicates AA will be going 3x daily DFW-HNL during select peaks.

If the Caribbean was that much more popular than Hawaii for people east of the Rockies why are the airlines not using those WBs to the Caribbean instead ? Hell, many Caribbean markets even have the added advantage of VFR traffic to supplement tourist traffic and yet the same airlines flying 8-11 hr WB sectors to Hawaii haven’t seen fit to use those WBs to the Caribbean.

Looking at ORD as an example, UA maintains daily year around service to HNL, with year around Sat-only service to OGG that increases to daily during peak periods, both on the 77A.
Meanwhile, UA only manages to serve Aruba and San Juan year around. The rest of it’s Caribbean markets are seasonal and all NB despite being considerably closer.

77H
 
Antarius
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 9:40 am

77H wrote:
Antarius wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

Hilo and Volcano village are on our list for our next trip to Hawaii. We've seen and done the chain hotel/touristy beach thing. Would love to experience a whole new side of Hawaii.


IMO, the Big Island is the best part of Hawaii between Mauna Kea and Volcano.

Personally, other than PHH, and the big island, theres no point in flying 8 hours from DFW or ATL or other mid continent hubs to Hawaii for the beach. Go to Turks and Caicos.


And yet there is nonstop service from BOS, JFK, EWR, ATL, ORD, MSP, DFW, IAH and DEN, with DTW starting in a few months, all on WB aircraft. UA has upgraded DEN-OGG to a 77A and the latest OAG thread indicates AA will be going 3x daily DFW-HNL during select peaks.

If the Caribbean was that much more popular than Hawaii for people east of the Rockies why are the airlines not using those WBs to the Caribbean instead ? Hell, many Caribbean markets even have the added advantage of VFR traffic to supplement tourist traffic and yet the same airlines flying 8-11 hr WB sectors to Hawaii haven’t seen fit to use those WBs to the Caribbean.

Looking at ORD as an example, UA maintains daily year around service to HNL, with year around Sat-only service to OGG that increases to daily during peak periods, both on the 77A.
Meanwhile, UA only manages to serve Aruba and San Juan year around. The rest of it’s Caribbean markets are seasonal and all NB despite being considerably closer.

77H


Just my opinion. also the allure of Hawaii isnt always rational. Its built up into this fantasyland in movies to the point that people feel like they want to go. Also it doesn't need a passport.

Not much different than Pisa; someone fucked up royally, but everyone talks about it so people feel like they should go.

Having been several times, I'm not arguing it isnt popular. Heck, I love that AA flies the 772 and 788 on these routes - best part of the whole trip is seat 1L. (Also UA and AA cant serve ORD-HNL with a NB, so the fact that there isnt one on the route isnt surprising or remotely related to right sizing. They either serve the route with a WB or dont at all)
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHTYYZ DEN DOH BLR MAA TXL MEX
 
77H
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 10:22 am

Antarius wrote:
77H wrote:
Antarius wrote:

IMO, the Big Island is the best part of Hawaii between Mauna Kea and Volcano.

Personally, other than PHH, and the big island, theres no point in flying 8 hours from DFW or ATL or other mid continent hubs to Hawaii for the beach. Go to Turks and Caicos.


And yet there is nonstop service from BOS, JFK, EWR, ATL, ORD, MSP, DFW, IAH and DEN, with DTW starting in a few months, all on WB aircraft. UA has upgraded DEN-OGG to a 77A and the latest OAG thread indicates AA will be going 3x daily DFW-HNL during select peaks.

If the Caribbean was that much more popular than Hawaii for people east of the Rockies why are the airlines not using those WBs to the Caribbean instead ? Hell, many Caribbean markets even have the added advantage of VFR traffic to supplement tourist traffic and yet the same airlines flying 8-11 hr WB sectors to Hawaii haven’t seen fit to use those WBs to the Caribbean.

Looking at ORD as an example, UA maintains daily year around service to HNL, with year around Sat-only service to OGG that increases to daily during peak periods, both on the 77A.
Meanwhile, UA only manages to serve Aruba and San Juan year around. The rest of it’s Caribbean markets are seasonal and all NB despite being considerably closer.

77H


Just my opinion. also the allure of Hawaii isnt always rational. Its built up into this fantasyland in movies to the point that people feel like they want to go. Also it doesn't need a passport.

Not much different than Pisa; someone fucked up royally, but everyone talks about it so people feel like they should go.

Having been several times, I'm not arguing it isnt popular. Heck, I love that AA flies the 772 and 788 on these routes - best part of the whole trip is seat 1L. (Also UA and AA cant serve ORD-HNL with a NB, so the fact that there isnt one on the route isnt surprising or remotely related to right sizing. They either serve the route with a WB or dont at all)


I knew the argument about the need for WB range was going to come up. I started to preemptively address it than backed out.
The point I’m trying to make is that if demand to the Caribbean from the EC/Midwest was far an away more than to Hawaii we should expect to see WBs used on these routes rather than to Hawaii.

WC-Hawaii doesn’t need the range of WB aircraft yet we see them daily due to demand. The same logic can be applied to the EC/Midwest-Caribbean market.

If there wasn’t a demand driven business case for operating a 8-11 hr nonstop from these markets we would expect to see the airlines flowing what EC/Midwest origin Hawaii bound passengers they had over WC hubs freeing up those WBs to operate to the Caribbean to meet the demand. Yet the opposite is true.

77H
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1670
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 12:26 pm

My Guess on the ITO Schedule.
.............................07:00 HNL
HNL 08:00 ______10:00 OAK
HNL 12:00 ______12:50 HNL
HNL 15:25 ______16:25 HNL
OAK 19:00 ______20:00 HNL
HNL 20:25...........................

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
synanthropic
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 1:42 pm

JDub wrote:
Hilo has no hotels, and not much to offer tourist except the volcano


Hi, I'm from Hilo (though living on the mainland for one more year of training. currently), and that couldn't be farther from the truth. No-one ever advocates going to Hilo over Kailua-Kona (or any other part of the Big Island), but it's a wonderful little place to start or end a vacation. I came here once, fell in love, bought property and opened a small clinic on the hills above the town. It is a great staging area for exploring the Hamakua coast north, Puna south, Volcano National Park and the Highland trails down to the Southwest, or going straight west over the Saddle road to access the other parts of our beautiful island. During parts of the year, you can be hip deep in snow and then a short time later, be relaxing in the hot springs on a tropical beach. Our island is one of the few places where you can experience the glorious Hawaiian sunrises and sunsets at the same location (Upper Waimea) and you can drive for hours in many places on the island and not see anyone. There are 11 distinct biomes here, and it is a mix of natural energy, beautiful old Hawai'i, modern luxury resort, typical villages (K-P-K area), fresh local fruits, veggies, meats, cheeses, teas, honeys, wines, etc. 'Olelo Hawai'i (native language) is still taught and actively spoken in many language immersion schools and communities around, and though our island is not for everyone, to say that "Hilo has no hotels and not much to offer tourist except the volcano" is patently false. Hilo town is a fun, little funky place, Richardson's Beach is one of my favorite places to relax after work (along with 4-mile beach), and hiking the trains above Waiakea-Uka is gorgeous. Tourists can enjoy a variety of unique museums, shops, restaurants, cafes, markets, art stalls, flower markets, food trucks, plantations, botanical gardens, natural trails, hidden beaches, waterfalls, coves, etc. Hilo DOES NOT have any luxury all-inclusive resorts, but it doesn't pretend to be that. If you want that, it's just a short hop over to K-K. ITO has some of the most color on the island, remember. Leeward is a mix of black, red and green. There are planted flowers around the resorts of course, but much of the natural part of that side is just red and black. Hilo has hotels, guest houses, vacation rentals, motels, inns, etc. To say there are no hotels is false.

When people visit me here, I often have them fly into K-K and then leave from ITO. A few days in K-K and up Waikoloa and Akani Hwy over to Waimea, down through Laupahoehoe and into ITO, where we spend maybe a week exploring the raw side of the island. There's no argument saying one side of the island is any better, and it's usually just tourists who split our island up like that. Those of us who live here don't split the island up like that. There is a natural, raw energy that seeps out of the earth on this side of the island, and it's definitely not for everyone. If you want to sip alcohol on a beach all day, I would definitely say head to leeward! Hapuna beach is one of my favorites for sure! But there is a lot to do in ITO for sure! Just wanted to make this comment, thank you!
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 1:45 pm

77H wrote:
Antarius wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
ITO was always a poor performer from the mainland. To much rain and few significant resorts compared to other areas of the islands. Predict this won't last long.


ITO also only has one flight to the mainland on UA. Hilo is also the second largest city in Hawaii.

I dont think ITO will be getting 2 widebodies a day, or a lot of beach tourists, but this could work.


UA used to operate SFO-ITO too but dropped the route. Loads on their LAX flight aren’t exactly anything to write home about either. If there was enough demand to/from ITO why haven’t we seen AS or HA start service, or even UA resume SFO? It should be telling that almost every airline dropped ITO immediately after deregulation and all but UA have never come back.

Demand to and from ITO is, and will be interisland, not the mainland. At the end of the day, visitors are going to fly into and stay on the Kona Coast. Windward Hawaii, including the Hamakua Coast, Hilo and Volcano NP are worth a visit, but can be accomplished as a day trip in the rental car.

For posters questioning LNY service... out of the question. The island’s infrastructure is not set up for bulk tourism like Oahu, Maui, Kauai or the Kona Coast. Even local demand is limited. There is a reason “hometown” HA only flies AT4s to LNY rather than the 712, and it’s not the runway length.

77H


Totally and completely spot-on man. Everything you said.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
26point2
Posts: 1061
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:01 am

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 2:30 pm

JDub wrote:
Hilo has no hotels, and not much to offer tourist except the volcano. This will be a small hinterland route, no way they go to Hilo before Kona and then Lihue.


Could’t be more wrong. I hear this a lot and always from tourists who’ve never stayed in Hilo and who’s idea of a good time is the mega-resort experience on the Kona side. Hilo has both large and small hotels, B & Bs, funky inns, and all the rest. Sure it’s quirky but that’s what makes Hilo cool.

I visit Kona 2-3 times per year for work. Have done for the past 20 years +. While the Kona side has seen extensive development, and traffic, Hilo area stays relatively unchanged. Actually, the one big improvement is the new Saddle Road.

When I go to the Big Island I bring my bicycle...I rarely rent a car...and generally spend my down time finding a way to visit Hilo. It’s a 2-3 day bike effort from Kailua/Kona and back but well worth it. Rain? Sometimes. Wind? Nearly always, especially going through Kamuela. Beauty? Of course. I’ve seen roads and parts of the island most tourists and even some locals don’t visit. Mana Road, Mauna Loa Access Road to the top, Kaloko Road, and tons more. There is so much more to the Big Island than the Waikoloa resorts. I highly recommend getting out and exploring the Hilo side and while you’re on the way stop in Honoka’a for lunch.
Last edited by 26point2 on Sun May 12, 2019 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
B1168
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 2:46 pm

9w748capt wrote:
B1168 wrote:
I do want to ask a question. Is it possible for WN to use their 737 MAX 7 to fly between DFW and Hawaii? I see limited destination selections on AA, and I hope WN can improve it a bit using smaller aircrafts.


Huh? AA serves HNL and OGG multiple times per day year round and adds KOA in high season. Find another mid-continent airport with that much Hawaii service?


That’s not what I mean...... my meaning is that destinations I.e.LIH with no DFW service can be an opportunity for WN.
 
mga707
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 4:08 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Hilo and Volcano village are on our list for our next trip to Hawaii. We've seen and done the chain hotel/touristy beach thing. Would love to experience a whole new side of Hawaii.


Go to Moloka'i. My favorite island. The mile ride down/up the cliff to Kalaupapa (leper colony) is amazing. The rest of the island is great as well--very un-'touristy'.

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