WeatherPilot
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DTW-LAN. Why?

Mon May 13, 2019 1:23 am

Got bored and just started looking through airport destinations from various airports and noticed DTW-LAN. Uh...why does this exist? And there's 5-daily flights as well! The flight is like 75 miles and it's competing directly with Interstate-96. My only guess is politics, Lansing being the capital and Detroit being the state's biggest city.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Mon May 13, 2019 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed excessive punctuation
 
STLflyer
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 1:31 am

Connections. My guess is there’s virtually no O&D traffic between the two cities., but people can connect to/from LAN in DTW for travel to points beyond.
 
sw733
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 1:43 am

Longer distance than ORD-MKE which has far more than 5x daily flights
 
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Spacepope
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 1:43 am

I’ve done it. Flight never got above 8000 feet. Enjoyed a beer in first class on a DC-91.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
cledaybuck
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 1:57 am

Because that’s how hubs work.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:11 am

These sectors will go away with the demise of the regionals as crew expenses rise and scope clauses reduce RJ profitability.


GF
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:13 am

Hub connections. No local market between the two but the flights are intended to capture the traffic that will pay a fare premium to fly in/out of LAN versus driving to GRR, FNT, or DTW.

DL is competing for the same connections that AA is flying over ORD.

While plenty of people drive to DTW, it can be heavily congested during peak rush hour anywhere east of US-23 and down I-275.

To catch an 8:30am departure from DTW, one needs to leave the LAN area by 5-5:30am. Conversely arriving at DTW at 5pm you won’t get up to LAN until after 8pm.

The government, university, manufacturing, and other related industries in a broad swath around Lansing and the residents there of use LAN

Not as frequent now, but I’m years past it was common to find fares LAN-DTw-xxx cheaper than DtW-xxx but with better revenue management and pricing strategies this isn’t as common nowadays.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:15 am

LAN sees a mix of CRJ and CR9 aircraft and could support upgauging to all CR7 CR9 if necessary.
 
Aliqiout
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:19 am

Ha, I just booked that flight. It exists for convenience, just like CHS-ATL, BLI-SEA, and many others. No reason for DL to to give up passengers to other airlines just becasue their closest hub is closer than others'. No reason to drive all the way to Detroit and deal with vagaries of traffic and large airport TSA and expensive parking. Often much better deals on rental cars too.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:28 am

CVG-LEX was about the same distance and DL used to operate it with an MD-88. It took longer to board the plane than the flight itself.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:32 am

You’re also paying not to have to go through long security lines, although it may be negligible.
 
MesabaF27
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:32 am

Back in the day Northwest Airlink (Mesaba) used to fly a bunch of flights a day DTW to FNT (Flint, MI). That's even shorter! Loads were usually full too somehow ... doesn't look like DL has continued the service though ..
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:33 am

Back in the NW days, DTW-LAN used to see D9S & 72S equipment.

My favorite right now is that DTW-GRR sees a 757 RON at various times of the year.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:38 am

DL dropped DTW-FNT post-merger. This was the back-door entrance into DTW for North Oakland county and Livingston county elites doing segment runs and in many cases finding cheaper fares on FNT-DTW-xxx versus DTW-xxx. It was a bit of Russian roulette, as if flights were on-time it worked great but if there were delays you could be facing 4 hours until the next connecting flight.

Back in the NW days when I was Plat and upgraded all the time, FNT-DTW was hilarious as they would serve a beverage in F on the ground and sometimes come through F with a quick round of beer/wine immediately after takeoff.
 
TW870
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:43 am

From a frequent flyer's perspective, there are two primary reasons to fly a routing like LAN-DTW-LAX versus drive to DTW for DTW-LAX. First, smaller airports such as LAN usually have cheap, convenient parking. You can go from the car to the gate quickly and pay less than 10 bucks a day, often without waiting for a shuttle. Second, freeway driving - especially in the industrial midwest - is not reliable. The weather is unpredictable, with icing, snow, heavy rain, fog, and all sorts of problems. Plus, there is intense truck traffic on all of these interstates, and accidents are often deadly and cause huge backups. You just cannot accurately judge time when driving a 75 mile route like LAN-DTW. In today's environment, you can be getting work done at all phases of the flight process - which is much less true with driving. Plus, if you have an airline club membership, you can eat during your connection, which also saves time because then you can work on the flights. Overall, business travelers love small airports such as LAN, and will use it for all of their travel, choosing the carrier whose hubs best serve their routings.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:49 am

Very true, and add in the fact that if flying into LAN, the rental car pick-up/drop-off versus DTW is a breeze. Walk right in/out the door versus shuttle bus to off-site lots. Like said with Smartphones, hot-spots, in-flight wifi, and airline clubs you can actually be more productive in the various phases of flying versus eye-to-windshield time driving, not to mention you can also take a nap flying.
 
departedflights
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:49 am

The same reason Comair used to fly CRJ's on the 64 mile route between Cincinnati and Dayton... connections.
 
freakyrat
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:53 am

The same on UA SBN-ORD and DL SBN-DTW connections.
 
portcolumbus
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 3:03 am

Used to fly DTW-TOL too until the 340s left.
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 3:42 am

There are at least eight round trip bus trips between Lansing and DTW every day as well.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 4:13 am

Same thing with:
Houston-LCH/CLL
DFW-TYR/Abilene/GGG
SF Bay-SMF/Stockton
MCO-almost anywhere in Florida
EWR-anywhere 90 minutes by car
When wasn't America great?


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ibthebigd
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 4:34 am

DAY-CVG was the just as short and probably cheaper when CVG fares were crazy expensive

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DCA-ROCguy
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 4:57 am

Umm....because it apparently helps the airline to make money, by competing for passengers in an apparently viable market rather than ceding said passengers to competitors at that market, whose hubs are farther away? If Delta is running five dailies on LAN-DTW, that suggests they are making money because of the service.

That works at both ends. If Delta didn't fly to LAN, passengers from other places might say, "Oh, if I fly United or American to this small market, they'll fly me right into the local airport, instead of making me drive or take a bus from Detroit."

Nine gates and all three legacies plus a vacation carrier isn't exactly tiny. Google satellite shows a Sun Country 737, maybe from when they did the DCA run?

Serving a carrier's business plan, helping that carrier make money, justifies the route. Being short-distance is irrelevant.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
777Mech
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 5:02 am

DTW people: questioning why an airline flies a certain route that competes with an interstate.

Also DTW people: why don't we have a flight to DPS yet?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 
BN747DFWHNL
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 5:20 am

DEN-COS
71 miles apart on I-25

As others have already said: flights between cities of close proximity are for connections, i.e., LGA/EWR/BOS/DCA/PHL-COS via DEN
 
UA444
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 5:55 am

Flown it many times on NW. They had mainline on it up until the DC-9-30 fleet reached a low critical mass. It can easily support a 717 or 319 probably.
 
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compensateme
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 6:32 am

777Mech wrote:
DTW people: questioning why an airline flies a certain route that competes with an interstate.

Also DTW people: why don't we have a flight to DPS yet?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


The OP isn’t a “DTW person” or DTW fanboy.

The “DTW people” is ONE person. It’s fascinating how ONE person has caused DOZENS of users to repeatedly mock DTW in any and every thread they could.

This crap needed to stop a long, long time ago.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
chrisjake
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 12:11 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
Got bored and just started looking through airport destinations from various airports and noticed DTW-LAN. Uh...why does this exist? And there's 5-daily flights as well! The flight is like 75 miles and it's competing directly with Interstate-96. My only guess is politics, Lansing being the capital and Detroit being the state's biggest city.


WeatherPilot, where were you finding this info at? I've been looking for a website that shows nonstop destinations from any city.

Thanks
 
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flymco753
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 12:26 pm

compensateme wrote:
777Mech wrote:
DTW people: questioning why an airline flies a certain route that competes with an interstate.

Also DTW people: why don't we have a flight to DPS yet?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


The OP isn’t a “DTW person” or DTW fanboy.

The “DTW people” is ONE person. It’s fascinating how ONE person has caused DOZENS of users to repeatedly mock DTW in any and every thread they could.

This crap needed to stop a long, long time ago.
One of the main perps, the search bar shows this user aboves continuous dismay towards "DTW people".
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
kavok
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 12:47 pm

BenflysDTW wrote:
There are at least eight round trip bus trips between Lansing and DTW every day as well.


The interesting thing about that bus route is that there used to be no late evening busses from DTW to LAN. They would run multiple busses daily, including one that would get you in time to DTW for a 6am flight out of Detroit... but there was no safety net bus at the end of the day.

They have since added a 10:15pm bus from DTW-LAN... but if you arrive into DTW during that last connection bank, you still need to hope your flight is on time, else you are waiting til the next morning to get a bus back.

They are up to 12 daily busses now on everyday but Saturday. That being said, with that many frequencies I am still surprised there isn’t a last call bus that leaves at 11:30 or midnight to go back, to catch anyone whose evening flight in was delayed. The peace of mind alone might generate enough business to make it worth it.
 
Dalmd88
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 12:49 pm

One of my favorite short flights was EFD-IAH. A flight from the south side of Houston to the northside. CoEx ran this for years. It mostly worked due to the NASA population around EFD.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 1:17 pm

chrisjake wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
Got bored and just started looking through airport destinations from various airports and noticed DTW-LAN. Uh...why does this exist? And there's 5-daily flights as well! The flight is like 75 miles and it's competing directly with Interstate-96. My only guess is politics, Lansing being the capital and Detroit being the state's biggest city.


WeatherPilot, where were you finding this info at? I've been looking for a website that shows nonstop destinations from any city.

Thanks


https://www.flightsfrom.com
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 1:19 pm

Thats surprising there isn't a later bus back to LAN considering how many arrivals into the North Terminal (not DL) arrive between 10pm-midnight. Thats easily 20 flights right there.
 
chrisjake
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 1:20 pm

Excellent! Thank you tjwgrr!
 
nikeherc
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 1:28 pm

Aliqiout wrote:
Ha, I just booked that flight. It exists for convenience, just like CHS-ATL, BLI-SEA, and many others. No reason for DL to to give up passengers to other airlines just becasue their closest hub is closer than others'. No reason to drive all the way to Detroit and deal with vagaries of traffic and large airport TSA and expensive parking. Often much better deals on rental cars too.


I’ve taken LAN-DTW as part of a double connect to CAE. The flight up was on UA with a single connect in ORD. The run between flights in DTW was a long one.

As far as CHS-ATL, even with the good service in CHS, there is a need for connections, usually in Atlanta or Charlotte. Service like CAE-ATL and CHS-ATL allows for same day round trips for business. The distance is short enough to drive, but for one person, a round trip in one day is a bit much for a full day of work.
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
Aliqiout
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 1:32 pm

I would pay a premium to avoid parking/rental car shuttles, but fortunately in evaluating LAN vs. DTW no premium is required.

The bus, while a useful service doesn't eliminate the drawbacks of using DTW, and as pointed out above, introduces the new one of the possibility of missing the last one.
 
Midwestfly
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 1:51 pm

As someone who flies Delta often, I use the LAN - DTW sector quite a bit. As many have pointed out, parking, ease of access, and the drive to Detroit is always at least 90 minutes, and its not a pleasant 90-minute drive either. The Bus (Michigan Flyer) is useful, it also stops in Ann Arbor.


I've done the GRR - DTW flight too on the 757. Recently having gone, GRR (757) - DTW (717) - AUS (321) - ATL (739) - GRR. Pretty proud of my 4 equipment types.
 
Midwestfly
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 1:56 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
Umm....because it apparently helps the airline to make money, by competing for passengers in an apparently viable market rather than ceding said passengers to competitors at that market, whose hubs are farther away? If Delta is running five dailies on LAN-DTW, that suggests they are making money because of the service.

That works at both ends. If Delta didn't fly to LAN, passengers from other places might say, "Oh, if I fly United or American to this small market, they'll fly me right into the local airport, instead of making me drive or take a bus from Detroit."

Nine gates and all three legacies plus a vacation carrier isn't exactly tiny. Google satellite shows a Sun Country 737, maybe from when they did the DCA run?

Serving a carrier's business plan, helping that carrier make money, justifies the route. Being short-distance is irrelevant.

Jim


American Picked up the DCA flight when Sun Country left. They then added ORD. The UPS operation at LAN includes some MD-11 traffic and with Michigan State University many chartered flights through the year at LAN. For good measure the F-RIB will be totally online soon, so I'd expect to see more folks visiting the greater lansing region.
 
klm617
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?

Mon May 13, 2019 2:06 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
Got bored and just started looking through airport destinations from various airports and noticed DTW-LAN. Uh...why does this exist? And there's 5-daily flights as well! The flight is like 75 miles and it's competing directly with Interstate-96. My only guess is politics, Lansing being the capital and Detroit being the state's biggest city.


I agree with you this has a lot to do with politics. The reason being the influentials in our state are above driving to DTW as the everyday people are expected to drive from FNT and TOL if they want to access the Delta network in the region.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?????

Mon May 13, 2019 2:07 pm

Aliqiout wrote:
I would pay a premium to avoid parking/rental car shuttles, but fortunately in evaluating LAN vs. DTW no premium is required.

The bus, while a useful service doesn't eliminate the drawbacks of using DTW, and as pointed out above, introduces the new one of the possibility of missing the last one.



I would gladly do the same out of Flint but Delta has eliminated that option unless we are headed south.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
coairman
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?

Mon May 13, 2019 2:22 pm

It’s no different when Continental Express and Connection flew:

CLE-CAK (51 miles)
CLE- TOL
CLE- ERI
CLE- CMH
CLE - PIT
The views I express are of my own, and not the company I work for.
 
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FCOTSTW
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?

Mon May 13, 2019 3:38 pm

I-75 is always under road construction. We've got to place a patch to it.
 
willbdsp
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?

Mon May 13, 2019 4:37 pm

I personally flew that route on a DC-9-10 back in 2005. Very quick flight, but it made more business sense for me as I was connecting to ATW (DTW-ATW was on an RJ85, which was a fun airplane!)
 
9w748capt
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?

Mon May 13, 2019 4:44 pm

willbdsp wrote:
I personally flew that route on a DC-9-10 back in 2005. Very quick flight, but it made more business sense for me as I was connecting to ATW (DTW-ATW was on an RJ85, which was a fun airplane!)


Oh man I loved it when NW had those! They regularly plied OKC-DTW back in the day. Even got upgraded once! Far preferable to the CR2s that took over when NW retired the Avros.
 
Tomsixty2
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?

Mon May 13, 2019 4:53 pm

When I returned home from Germany in 1977 I flew from DTW to Lan on a North Central prop plane. I think it was a Convair . I remember that the overhead bins were a cargo net not hard sided.
 
kavok
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?

Mon May 13, 2019 5:13 pm

klm617 wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
Got bored and just started looking through airport destinations from various airports and noticed DTW-LAN. Uh...why does this exist? And there's 5-daily flights as well! The flight is like 75 miles and it's competing directly with Interstate-96. My only guess is politics, Lansing being the capital and Detroit being the state's biggest city.


I agree with you this has a lot to do with politics. The reason being the influentials in our state are above driving to DTW as the everyday people are expected to drive from FNT and TOL if they want to access the Delta network in the region.



It is just business. Compared to DTW-TOL, The drive from LAN to DTW is at least a half hour longer, generally has much worse traffic (AnnArbor or Novi), and tends to also experience worse winter weather (more snow on average). And to top it off, the Toledo airport is not conveniently located for much of the Toledo region anyway.

Also, unlike FNT, Lansing has the State Government and a large Major Research University, both of which help provide a market of passengers willing to pay a premium to fly from Lansing. As mentioned in earlier posts, if DL didn’t offer the flight, the pax would take AA/UA instead. This is much less the case for FNT or TOL.
 
e38
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?

Mon May 13, 2019 5:20 pm

Quoting Tomsixty2 (Reply # 45), ". . . the overhead bins were a cargo net not hard sided."

and, you were only supposed to put hats and coats up there!

e38
 
D328
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?

Mon May 13, 2019 5:47 pm

My first non rev flight I did PIT-FKL-PIT on the B1900, also another even shorter PHL-ABE on the Dash 8, and BFD-JHW(even shorter).
Last edited by D328 on Mon May 13, 2019 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
sunking737
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?

Mon May 13, 2019 5:47 pm

You need to go back even farther in time...North Central flew this back in the day with DC-3 then Convairs, before the DC-9's. NC/RC flew a lot of Convair 580's back in the day.
I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
lavalampluva
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Re: DTW-LAN. Why?

Mon May 13, 2019 6:05 pm

MSP-RST
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.

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