SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 10:54 am

This is because “The (Boeing) 737-800 has 189 seats, but Air Transat can only carry 114 passengers from Cancun into Kelowna because of the stage length and the headwinds and the performance of that aircraft.”

For sure, having to leave 40% of the seats empty is not a cheap option to operate. The 21N would be useful there but already busy at YVR to reach Costa Rica.


https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/2 ... es-on-hold
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2072
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 2:22 pm

What do Sunwing do at YLW with their 738s? Was YLW a MAX city for WG until the grounding?
 
ryan78
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:29 am

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 2:42 pm

Just like last year they cut all flying from Saskatchewan because they were loosing money. Transat is simply cutting it's lower performing routes. It sucks for YLW but realistically it was only 3 flights per week, x2 PVR and x1 CUN. That airplane can make more money flying from either YVR, YYC or YEG. Especially with Sunwing & Westjet flying the same routes out of Kelowna, not much room for competition.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 12:41 pm

It's indeed not easy for Transat lately.
 
jimbo737
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:18 am

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 2:57 pm

114 seats on a 189 seat -800 from YLW to CUN, a 2,668 mile sector?

Sounds like Transat better hire some better dispatchers.....

Transat are leaving the YLW market because they were unable to compete with WS who operate both routes non-stop weekly in the winter without issue using 134 seat -700’s. WS is also is also able to sell shorter or longer trips on a one stop basis over YVR, YEG, YYC etc.

Transat is stuck with one week or 2 week packages. WS packages can be infinitely more flexible.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 4:52 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
114 seats on a 189 seat -800 from YLW to CUN, a 2,668 mile sector?

Sounds like Transat better hire some better dispatchers......


Except its on the return trip they are having difficulties... :roll:
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5195
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 5:44 pm

How so? There are 738s leaving at sea level on 80F days operating that distance routinely. They may not be as densely configured as AirTransat 738s but they can operate with way more than 114 occupied seats. (See AA BOS-LAX.)
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2072
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 6:32 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
114 seats on a 189 seat -800 from YLW to CUN, a 2,668 mile sector?

Sounds like Transat better hire some better dispatchers.....

Transat are leaving the YLW market because they were unable to compete with WS who operate both routes non-stop weekly in the winter without issue using 134 seat -700’s. WS is also is also able to sell shorter or longer trips on a one stop basis over YVR, YEG, YYC etc.

Transat is stuck with one week or 2 week packages. WS packages can be infinitely more flexible.


Maybe they're only filling 114 seats per flight on average. How does Sunwing not have the same problems with YLW-CUN with their 738s?
 
Jamie514
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 7:03 pm

Surely they could have juggled things better to make a -700 handle more of these assignments if the -800 was lacking ...
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7756
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 8:26 pm

Curious as if having to make "unscheduled" fuel stops has anything to do with this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx4B4fm9OLw
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 6267
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Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 12:13 am

Jamie514 wrote:
Surely they could have juggled things better to make a -700 handle more of these assignments if the -800 was lacking ...


Do they have any -700 in the fleet?

ACDC8 wrote:
Curious as if having to make "unscheduled" fuel stops has anything to do with this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx4B4fm9OLw


I remember that. Flair was flying with -400s.
 
YYZatcboy
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 1:11 am

I used to dispatch the CanJet 737s that did this flying many years ago. 189 seat 800s without SFP kits and full galleys with ovens and chillers (per the TS food and beverage policy) are SUPER heavy. We often had to go NAIFR because we could barely make it CUN-YYC, even holding YEG as an alternate. TS likely has the same alternate list we did (AKA we only were allowed to hold places we flew), so their alternate list was far less flexible than other airlines. There was no way we could do CUN-YLW/YVR with those planes. They are just so heavy.
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ryan78
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:29 am

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 1:32 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Jamie514 wrote:
Surely they could have juggled things better to make a -700 handle more of these assignments if the -800 was lacking ...


Do they have any -700 in the fleet?


They did over the winter, 3 leased -700's from ASL Airlines France. The aircraft C-FTQK always flew out of YLW last winter, something about that specific airplane that dispatch always wanted in and out of YLW. I think next winter they will no longer be leasing 737's, instead A321's form Thomas Cook. Maybe they have looked into the dispatch of their own -800's on the route ahead of time and saw what kind of a load penalty they would have needed to take and decided to cancel the flights all together.
 
Jamie514
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 1:43 am

ryan78 wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Jamie514 wrote:
Surely they could have juggled things better to make a -700 handle more of these assignments if the -800 was lacking ...


Do they have any -700 in the fleet?


They did over the winter, 3 leased -700's from ASL Airlines France. The aircraft C-FTQK always flew out of YLW last winter, something about that specific airplane that dispatch always wanted in and out of YLW. I think next winter they will no longer be leasing 737's, instead A321's form Thomas Cook. Maybe they have looked into the dispatch of their own -800's on the route ahead of time and saw what kind of a load penalty they would have needed to take and decided to cancel the flights all together.


Indeed they have had -700's as part of the expanded winter 737 fleet for a number of years now.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 4:05 am

YYZatcboy wrote:
I used to dispatch the CanJet 737s that did this flying many years ago. 189 seat 800s without SFP kits and full galleys with ovens and chillers (per the TS food and beverage policy) are SUPER heavy. We often had to go NAIFR because we could barely make it CUN-YYC, even holding YEG as an alternate. TS likely has the same alternate list we did (AKA we only were allowed to hold places we flew), so their alternate list was far less flexible than other airlines. There was no way we could do CUN-YLW/YVR with those planes. They are just so heavy.


Good point, not all airplanes are equivalent. I also wonder what MTOW option they have. There are a variety of MTOW and Engine Thrust options available, which can impact payload and range
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 11:17 am

Jamie514 wrote:
Indeed they have had -700's as part of the expanded winter 737 fleet for a number of years now.


Oh yes, that's right, completely skipped those.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2795
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Air Transat is suspending YLW services to Mexico Winter 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 3:40 pm

2 things.

1. YLW is a single runway airport, so airlines can't file No alternate IFR. Meaning you need to carry fuel for an alternate, which in the case of YLW, is most likely either YVR or YYC. If those two dont meet the weather requirements, then the alternate has to be even further, which in turn further restricts the plane.

2. Even the southbound flight might face some issues, as departing on a 2,670 mile journey from a 8,900ft runway situated at 1,400 ft MSL surrounded with terrain is less than ideal for the -800.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!

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