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AA777223
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Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 7:16 pm

Hi All,

I stumbled upon a seatmap of a Xiamen Airlines 752 featuring F, J and Y. You can find it here:
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Xiame ... 200_V1.php

I know that AA and UA used to use a three class config - true three class F, J and Y on transcon services, but now with UA down to just J and Y+/Y, AA is really the only one left offering a true F, J and Y. I was quite surprised to see Xiamen offering such a services. Other than AA and them, especially considering F is largely disappearing even in intercontinental services, are any other carriers offering an F cabin on a NB?

Regards,
AA777223
Last edited by AA777223 on Mon May 13, 2019 7:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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jplatts
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 7:19 pm

AA actually does operate some A321's in a 3-class configuration on its SFO-JFK and LAX-JFK nonstop routes.
 
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alancostello
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 7:27 pm

I wonder will we start to see three-class narrow bodies with J, W, and Y on A321LRs as they pick up transatlantic routes.
 
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keesje
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 7:30 pm

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 7:32 pm

Depends on what you call a class. Three class nb's with three types of seats are very rare. KLM has 3 classes in its nb's but they are all the same seat albeith with different pitch and/of middle seat free.

Bizz seats
Eco seats plus eco seats with more pitch
Isn't a rare thing,

I dont know any airliner with 3 different types of seats.
F70-F100-RJ85-RJ70-E190-319-320-321-733-734-735-737-738-752-753-763-764-772-744-380
 
sagechan
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 7:44 pm

FlyRow wrote:
Depends on what you call a class. Three class nb's with three types of seats are very rare. KLM has 3 classes in its nb's but they are all the same seat albeith with different pitch and/of middle seat free.

Bizz seats
Eco seats plus eco seats with more pitch
Isn't a rare thing,

I dont know any airliner with 3 different types of seats.

AA's A321Ts have 1-1 F 2-2 lie flat J, Y+ and Y (same seat different pitch) so 3 seats.
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Antarius
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 7:51 pm

keesje wrote:


No. it is 3. F,J,Y. There is no Premium Economy.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
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keesje
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 8:44 pm

Antarius wrote:
keesje wrote:


No. it is 3. F,J,Y. There is no Premium Economy.


Main Cabin Extra.

https://skift.com/2018/07/19/american-a ... a-seating/

Did you even look at the linked seat map before posting No. ?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Ishrion
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 8:49 pm

keesje wrote:
Antarius wrote:
keesje wrote:


No. it is 3. F,J,Y. There is no Premium Economy.


Main Cabin Extra.

https://skift.com/2018/07/19/american-a ... a-seating/

Did you even look at the linked seat map before posting No. ?


If you’re going with that, you can call every narrowbody mainline plane in AA’s fleet “3 class”.
 
airbazar
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 8:52 pm

B6 has 3 types of seats on their Mint A321's. Their "Mint" cabin has 2 types: Business and Business Suite.
 
debonair
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 9:41 pm

Vistara of India is also operating a 3class modell on their A320 narrowbodies... :twocents:
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 10:07 pm

Ishrion wrote:
keesje wrote:
Antarius wrote:

No. it is 3. F,J,Y. There is no Premium Economy.


Main Cabin Extra.

https://skift.com/2018/07/19/american-a ... a-seating/

Did you even look at the linked seat map before posting No. ?


If you’re going with that, you can call every narrowbody mainline plane in AA’s fleet “3 class”.

If it's a different fare class, then it's a different class.
 
ElmerJrG
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 10:29 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
keesje wrote:

Main Cabin Extra.

https://skift.com/2018/07/19/american-a ... a-seating/

Did you even look at the linked seat map before posting No. ?


If you’re going with that, you can call every narrowbody mainline plane in AA’s fleet “3 class”.

If it's a different fare class, then it's a different class.


If you're going with that, then you can call them 10 or 20 class planes. You do know that service class is different from fare class, don't you? The economy class in AA as an example has about 11 different fare classes.
 
Antarius
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm

keesje wrote:
Antarius wrote:
keesje wrote:


No. it is 3. F,J,Y. There is no Premium Economy.


Main Cabin Extra.

https://skift.com/2018/07/19/american-a ... a-seating/

Did you even look at the linked seat map before posting No. ?


No I didn't, because I fly on one a couple times a month and didn't need to.

MCE is extra legroom Y (also now has free drinks). That's it. It is NOT a separate class of service and never has been.
Last edited by Antarius on Mon May 13, 2019 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
Antarius
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Mon May 13, 2019 10:41 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
keesje wrote:

Main Cabin Extra.

https://skift.com/2018/07/19/american-a ... a-seating/

Did you even look at the linked seat map before posting No. ?


If you’re going with that, you can call every narrowbody mainline plane in AA’s fleet “3 class”.

If it's a different fare class, then it's a different class.


It is not. I can be in an S fare class or G fare bucket and sit in MCE. Still coach.

If MCE is a separate class of service, are exit rows in BA a separate one too?
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
TheEuphorian
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 12:55 am

If I remember correctly, some 737-800 of the now defunct Transaero has F,J, and Y.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 1:00 am

I'm not sure if this technically counts as three class, but PR's A321s have business class, premium economy (which is basically economy with more legroom and a different color), and economy. Interestingly enough, their A321neos only have J and Y.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 1:19 am

Antarius wrote:
keesje wrote:
Antarius wrote:

No. it is 3. F,J,Y. There is no Premium Economy.


Main Cabin Extra.

https://skift.com/2018/07/19/american-a ... a-seating/

Did you even look at the linked seat map before posting No. ?


No I didn't, because I fly on one a couple times a month and didn't need to.

MCE is extra legroom Y (also now has free drinks). That's it. It is NOT a separate class of service and never has been.

MCE is a fare class, the hard product is physically different too (since it has more legroom); that classifies as a class in itself for me.

When you book on AA, you select First, Business, MCE, Economy; that's your fare class, that's what you chose, the hard product is different in each of those (the ULCC equivalent has the same hard product and service once on-board as Economy). Which letter ends up being assigned to it is beyond the customer's control. What the customer controls is which of those category he/she chooses during booking.
 
UALFAson
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 1:33 am

WayexTDI wrote:
When you book on AA, you select First, Business, MCE, Economy



No you don't. When you book a ticket on AA.com, you are given the choice of Main Cabin, Business, or First, because those are the 3 classes of service. After you choose your flights, you are given the option to select a seat in the Main Cabin Extra section for an additional fee (if you don't have elite status), just like you can select a "Preferred" Economy seat for an additional fee.

MCE is a section within the Main Cabin; it is not a separate class of service.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
Antarius
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 1:39 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Antarius wrote:
keesje wrote:

Main Cabin Extra.

https://skift.com/2018/07/19/american-a ... a-seating/

Did you even look at the linked seat map before posting No. ?


No I didn't, because I fly on one a couple times a month and didn't need to.

MCE is extra legroom Y (also now has free drinks). That's it. It is NOT a separate class of service and never has been.

MCE is a fare class, the hard product is physically different too (since it has more legroom); that classifies as a class in itself for me.

When you book on AA, you select First, Business, MCE, Economy; that's your fare class, that's what you chose, the hard product is different in each of those (the ULCC equivalent has the same hard product and service once on-board as Economy). Which letter ends up being assigned to it is beyond the customer's control. What the customer controls is which of those category he/she chooses during booking.


I love when people double down on opinions in the guise of facts. Just because YOU consider it to be a different fare class, doesnt make it so.

MCE is a seat add on to an economy fare. That's it. No different than paying for an exit row seat on another airline. You are still in economy.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
Longhornmaniac
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 1:50 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Antarius wrote:
keesje wrote:

Main Cabin Extra.

https://skift.com/2018/07/19/american-a ... a-seating/

Did you even look at the linked seat map before posting No. ?


No I didn't, because I fly on one a couple times a month and didn't need to.

MCE is extra legroom Y (also now has free drinks). That's it. It is NOT a separate class of service and never has been.

MCE is a fare class, the hard product is physically different too (since it has more legroom); that classifies as a class in itself for me.

When you book on AA, you select First, Business, MCE, Economy; that's your fare class, that's what you chose, the hard product is different in each of those (the ULCC equivalent has the same hard product and service once on-board as Economy). Which letter ends up being assigned to it is beyond the customer's control. What the customer controls is which of those category he/she chooses during booking.


That can be your criteria, but it's not accurate. MCE is an ancillary product, not a fare class. You're buying an economy seat with an economy fare code. You're either paying extra for MCE or you get it as a perk of your status. There is no MCE fare. You can get the economy fare refunded, but not the extra money paid for MCE. That's pretty good evidence you're not actually paying for an MCE fare.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 2:00 am

UALFAson wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
When you book on AA, you select First, Business, MCE, Economy



No you don't. When you book a ticket on AA.com, you are given the choice of Main Cabin, Business, or First, because those are the 3 classes of service. After you choose your flights, you are given the option to select a seat in the Main Cabin Extra section for an additional fee (if you don't have elite status), just like you can select a "Preferred" Economy seat for an additional fee.

MCE is a section within the Main Cabin; it is not a separate class of service.

Fair enough, doesn't apply to AA (which I'm honestly not familiar with). That's my mistake to not check.
Point is still valid for DL, which has, for example, Main, Comfort+ & First on a random ATL-MSP; 3 fare classes. Comfort+ is Main Cabin, with more legroom, different Seat Covers but same seat in itself and same service.
You do not need to have different service to have a different hard product and a fare class separate.

And, check your Employee Handbook; you might be barred from flying (on company's dime) in Main Cabin Extra, Comfort+ or whatever else it's called. It's considered a higher fare class and might be reserved for longer flights or mid- to upper management.
 
mhkansan
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 3:14 am

WayexTDI wrote:
And, check your Employee Handbook; you might be barred from flying (on company's dime) in Main Cabin Extra, Comfort+ or whatever else it's called. It's considered a higher fare class and might be reserved for longer flights or mid- to upper management.


Negative. I'm also an airline employee. Main Cabin Extra is definitely not a higher class of service. Just as others have stated, its a seat add on available for purchase with some extra perks. The same goes for Delta Comfort+ or United Economy Plus. They're just branding terms for a more comfortable seat in the main cabin with extra leg room.

I think you might be confusing Main Cabin Extra with Premium Economy, which is an entirely different cabin more equivalent to domestic first class for long-haul flights. On some flights, like when widebody aircraft are flown between hubs domestically, those Premium Economy seats are sold as Main Cabin Extra.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 3:50 am

TheEuphorian wrote:
If I remember correctly, some 737-800 of the now defunct Transaero has F,J, and Y.


You're correct:
https://thedesignair.net/2013/10/30/tra ... 737-cabin/

"Imperial Class"... :scratchchin: :scratchchin:

As for the question - perhaps the OP should clarify it a little bit, i.e. 3-class = "F, J, Y" instead of "J, W/Y+, Y"?

On another side note - those Xiamen 757 had been retired. However, they are bringing 2 (out of 4) back for this summer to cover for 737MAX grounding. Chinese spotters should be happy to see 757 flying around again.
 
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keesje
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 7:31 am

For me AA Main Cabin Extra is different name name for an Premium Economy, Economy Plus, Economy Extra, however the airlines brands it. I pay extra for a more comfortable service / product. Just like I would book J. The semantics play no role.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 7:51 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Fair enough, doesn't apply to AA (which I'm honestly not familiar with). That's my mistake to not check.


If you're not familiar with it, then don't assert it and act like you have some expertise about it.

MCE is no different than regular economy and is no different than Basic Economy - only with access to more or fewer perks. But, even if you're on a basic economy fare you -could- wind up in a MCE seat (if all the regular economy seats have been assigned).
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 7:55 am

keesje wrote:
For me AA Main Cabin Extra is different name name for an Premium Economy, Economy Plus, Economy Extra, however the airlines brands it. I pay extra for a more comfortable service / product. Just like I would book J. The semantics play no role.


But, its not. Its the the same aircraft cabin. There is -NO- fare class for MCE. My ticket could be booked as a -K- fare which is a refundable economy fare or a -S- fare which is a 10th or 11th tier economy fare and still wind up in a MCE seat. MCE seats are -freely- given to elite AA frequent fliers (gold and above), and as I just mentioned, you could be on a Basic Economy fare (booked into -B- inventory) and still wind up in a MCE seat.

If you want to see what premium economy looks like, ride on a AA 77W or 788. That is a premium economy hard product.
 
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keesje
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 8:00 am

washingtonflyer wrote:

If you're not familiar with it, then don't assert it and act like you have some expertise about it.

MCE is no different than regular economy and is no different than Basic Economy - only with access to more or fewer perks.


Enjoy more space with Main Cabin Extra seating, starting at $20. Seats are located in Main Cabin and offered on most flights, subject to availability.

Early boarding
Be one of the first to board after elite members with Preferred Group 5 boarding and get easier access to overhead bin space.*

Extra legroom
Sit back and relax with more room to stretch out at the front of the Main Cabin.

Free carry-on
You can bring 1 personal item and 1 bag with you for free. See all the restrictions before you board.

Image

Free snacks and drinks
Beer, wine and spirits are on us; plus free Biscoff cookies or mini pretzels and soft drinks. Additional food or drinks may be available for free or to buy, depending on your route.**

Free entertainment
Enjoy free movies and TV shows – on screen or your device.

Wi-Fi
You can buy Wi-Fi on select aircraft so you never miss a beat while you’re on board.

https://exploreamerican.com/maincabinextra/?%20cint=DSP%7C%7C20180705%7CMER%7CMKT%7CHRO%7C%7CLPM_MCE2.0Relaunch

The moment of booking / upgrading is a kind of irrelevant for me as paying passenger. I don't care.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 8:14 am

Actually the moment of booking -is- critical. I have access to MCE seating for free the second I book the ticket. Again, it matters not if I book into K inventory or S inventory. I get a MCE seat.

In any event, your image is -horribly- out of date. The 77W has had Premium Economy which is physically in a different cabin than standard economy. Your image doesn't even show premium economy. Moreover, your image is incredibly misleading. MCE seats are spread out all over the cabin in a 77W. Row 20 is the only MCE row in the first compartment of economy class. Then, rows 31 and 32 (seats AC / JL) and rows 33 - 35 (seats DEGH) are MCE seats. In other words, they are spread out all over the economy class cabin.

You could also pull up the seat map of the
 
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keesje
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 8:28 am

As passenger I don't care much were my M+ seat is located., as long as I have the perks I payed for. Does American offer Economy Plus on their flights, yes. The way AA internally handles / names this in their booking systems, as a fair class or not , is something I have no interest in as the paying passenger.

Image

https://kunstblik.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/margritte-this-is-not-a-pipe.jpg?w=950
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 8:56 am

keesje wrote:
As passenger I don't care much were my M+ seat is located., as long as I have the perks I payed for. Does American offer Economy Plus on their flights, yes. The way AA internally handles / names this in their booking systems, as a fair class or not , is something I have no interest in as the paying passenger.

Image

https://kunstblik.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/margritte-this-is-not-a-pipe.jpg?w=950


You should have an interest because it PROVES AA does not view it as being a different fare cabin. You could be on a basic economy ticket and get a MCE seat. You could be on a full fare walk up ticket and NOT get a MCE seat.

= You do not get bonus miles for MCE.
= You can be moved out of MCE seat and you will not necessarily be reimbursed for the difference in seat value
= You do not get rebooking priority in a MCE seat if there are IROPS
= You could have a MCE seat and board in group 7 or group 8

Just so we put this nonsense to rest, please go to https://cwsi.net/aa.htm and tell us where the booking code is for MCE.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 9:00 am

Is there a downside with this change?

Currently, American Airlines lets Platinum, Platinum Pro and Executive Platinum elites choose Main Cabin Extra seats for free at booking. Gold elites have the choice of paying 50% of the standard cost or waiting until check-in to select these seats for free.

Meanwhile, Delta treats its extra-legroom seats as a separate class of service — including dedicated bins, extra snacks and free drinks. However, the downside is that Delta elites have to be “upgraded” to these seats. This can lead to elite having the unfortunate choice of upgrading to an extra-legroom middle seat or turning down the “upgrade” to stay in the standard economy seat they chose at booking.

With those Delta complaints fresh in mind and with these changes to AA’s MCE product mirroring Delta’s Comfort+ amenities, the logical question is if American Airlines is going to mirror Delta’s extra-legroom upgrade system. I asked an airline spokesperson if there were any plans to change American Airlines’ Main Cabin Extra seat selection system. The great news is that the airline has no plans to do so at this time.
-----------------------------------------------------------

American does NOT treat this as a separate cabin.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 9:02 am

"Technically Main Cabin Extra isn’t a separate class of service, which is to say that it’s still part of economy. "

https://onemileatatime.com/american-fre ... a-upgrade/
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 9:03 am

From AA's FAQ introducing MCE:

Q: How will this program impact my upgrades from Main Cabin to Business Class cabins?

A: We will retain our current Main Cabin to Business Class upgrade policies. Main Cabin Extra will be considered part of the Main Cabin, not a separate cabin.
 
chimborazo
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 9:34 am

My BA gold/emerald status lets me book exit row/MCE seats on AA in economy for free

Paying for MCE is not equivalent to paying for an upgrade to a higher cabin, it is equivalent to paying for emerald status for that flight.

As noted above, you can pay for exit row seat on BA (or get them free for gold/emerald) but it doesn’t mean you’ve upgraded. Same as booking MCE (in terms of what you sit on).
 
chimborazo
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 9:41 am

washingtonflyer wrote:
From AA's FAQ introducing MCE:

Q: How will this program impact my upgrades from Main Cabin to Business Class cabins?

A: We will retain our current Main Cabin to Business Class upgrade policies. Main Cabin Extra will be considered part of the Main Cabin, not a separate cabin.


Exactly. You’d be well cheesed off if your “upgrade” was simply to a bit more legroom and a free beer or three (if the emergency exit was empty and as many carriers do, you got asked to sit there, is that an upgrade...?). Upgrade = a physically superior seat (unless it’s BAs newer premium economy/world traveller plus which is not comfortable in the aisle seats due to the small side armrest and apparent lean toward the side). Doesn’t matter where the seat is- it’s what your arse feels that determines the cabin you are in, not how much leg room there is.
 
chimborazo
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 9:47 am

A colleague of mine was adamant that Qatar have premium economy on their A380s. They don’t... they have first, business and economy. “But there is a cabin upstairs at the back. It’s premium.”

Hmmm. I’ve been in it a lot... it’s standard economy in a standard seat... just an “exclusive” cabin bookable by premium members.

In fact, the row of 4 in front of the rear upper deck exits is actually narrower than the normal sets of 4 seats as I found out...

I think my colleague mistook being told about economy for premium passengers and premium economy.
 
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keesje
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 12:19 pm

I'm a tall guy & pay for 4-6 inch extra leg room. For me it's the difference between hell & surviving. Knee space, a few inches on recline make a big difference. My current employer thinks Business Class is a waste of money & allows me to travel a day sooner to recover / sleep. I book Plus / Extra / Premium Class whatever the airlines like to name it. For space & services. On "fare cabins" I couldn't care less, now I'm no longer working for an airline. Different responsibilities.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
chimborazo
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 12:32 pm

Exactly. Same as me and I’m also tall. And have wide shoulders. So, like my company, your company doesn’t pay for business. But your company will pay for premium economy it seems, or if not premium any available enhancements in the economy cabin. We only get premium over 9 hours. And pay for exit row seat enhancement on Ryanair etc.
 
chimborazo
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 12:37 pm

Isn’t it ironic though that your employer thinks it’s okay to make you suffer and then give recovery time (including more time away from home) than it is to pay more to have you arrive at a suitable time and in a suitable condition for work. This has been my argument at my company. Business is ridiculously expensive. But travelling halfway round the world, getting to hotel at 01:00 for a 08:30 meeting plus travel, one night stopover and from work to airport to do it again on the way back... that’s what business class is for.
 
Antarius
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 12:40 pm

keesje wrote:
I'm a tall guy & pay for 4-6 inch extra leg room. For me it's the difference between hell & surviving. Knee space, a few inches on recline make a big difference. My current employer thinks Business Class is a waste of money & allows me to travel a day sooner to recover / sleep. I book Plus / Extra / Premium Class whatever the airlines like to name it. For space & services. On "fare cabins" I couldn't care less, now I'm no longer working for an airline. Different responsibilities.


Again, stop doubling down on things you are wrong about.

Is an exit row seat a separate class? Hint: the answer is still NO.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
Antarius
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 12:41 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
From AA's FAQ introducing MCE:

Q: How will this program impact my upgrades from Main Cabin to Business Class cabins?

A: We will retain our current Main Cabin to Business Class upgrade policies. Main Cabin Extra will be considered part of the Main Cabin, not a separate cabin.


/thread
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 1:24 pm

As far as DL and C+ is concerned, it is not seen as an add-on to main cabin anymore, you book it as a separate class (which can later be upgraded to). So most (or all?) DL narrowbodies have 3 classes.
@DadCelo
 
twicearound
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 1:29 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
keesje wrote:

Main Cabin Extra.

https://skift.com/2018/07/19/american-a ... a-seating/

Did you even look at the linked seat map before posting No. ?


If you’re going with that, you can call every narrowbody mainline plane in AA’s fleet “3 class”.

If it's a different fare class, then it's a different class.


Incorrect. Fare class has nothing to do with class of service.
 
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Finn350
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 1:59 pm

IMHO, the correct definition for a class in this context is separated cabins or at the very least physically different seats. In that case AA A321Ts probably are the only true three-class narrowbodies. The example given in the first post looks more like first and business class in the same cabin.
 
drdisque
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 3:51 pm

Longhornmaniac wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Antarius wrote:

No I didn't, because I fly on one a couple times a month and didn't need to.

MCE is extra legroom Y (also now has free drinks). That's it. It is NOT a separate class of service and never has been.

MCE is a fare class, the hard product is physically different too (since it has more legroom); that classifies as a class in itself for me.

When you book on AA, you select First, Business, MCE, Economy; that's your fare class, that's what you chose, the hard product is different in each of those (the ULCC equivalent has the same hard product and service once on-board as Economy). Which letter ends up being assigned to it is beyond the customer's control. What the customer controls is which of those category he/she chooses during booking.


That can be your criteria, but it's not accurate. MCE is an ancillary product, not a fare class. You're buying an economy seat with an economy fare code. You're either paying extra for MCE or you get it as a perk of your status. There is no MCE fare. You can get the economy fare refunded, but not the extra money paid for MCE. That's pretty good evidence you're not actually paying for an MCE fare.


You CAN get money paid for an MCE seat refunded if your flight is canceled or you are involuntarily reseated outside MCE. I know because I've done it. However, the fact that it's a separate process is indicative that it is not a fare class but is a separate item (technically an "SST" - Special Service Ticket). The central point is correct, MCE and E+ are not separate fare classes or classes of service.
 
c933103
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 4:18 pm

Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
Austin787
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:39 pm

Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 4:21 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
Is there a downside with this change?

Currently, American Airlines lets Platinum, Platinum Pro and Executive Platinum elites choose Main Cabin Extra seats for free at booking. Gold elites have the choice of paying 50% of the standard cost or waiting until check-in to select these seats for free.

Meanwhile, Delta treats its extra-legroom seats as a separate class of service — including dedicated bins, extra snacks and free drinks. However, the downside is that Delta elites have to be “upgraded” to these seats. This can lead to elite having the unfortunate choice of upgrading to an extra-legroom middle seat or turning down the “upgrade” to stay in the standard economy seat they chose at booking.

With those Delta complaints fresh in mind and with these changes to AA’s MCE product mirroring Delta’s Comfort+ amenities, the logical question is if American Airlines is going to mirror Delta’s extra-legroom upgrade system. I asked an airline spokesperson if there were any plans to change American Airlines’ Main Cabin Extra seat selection system. The great news is that the airline has no plans to do so at this time.
-----------------------------------------------------------

American does NOT treat this as a separate cabin.

Interesting debate on whether extra legroom economy is considered a separate class. I'd say Y+ is part of Y, not a separate class. Most airlines feel the same as me. But Delta thinks otherwise. Given how AA loves to copy DL, I wouldn't be surprised if AA decides to make MCE a separate cabin from MC in the future where its elites have to book it in advance or be "upgraded" into MCE.
 
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keesje
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 4:58 pm

MCE IS a seperate cabin, with better, spacier seating and additional perks.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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GE90man
Posts: 196
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Re: Three Class Narrowbodies

Tue May 14, 2019 5:06 pm

keesje wrote:
MCE IS a seperate cabin, with better, spacier seating and additional perks.

Still the same hard product.

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