speedbird52
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 9:55 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
bgm wrote:
Wow, the mental gymnastics on this thread are really something. :rotfl:

The 737NG IS an older version of the 737 MAX. This is exactly why Boeing got into this mess by quite literally pimping their 737 to the max.


And yet rarely is it ever brought up these days that the A320 and A330 are older versions of the A320neo and A330neo respectively, or how the 717 is the ultimate development of the DC-9, or how the 777X is basically a stretched 777 with newer engines and wing, or how the 747-400 is a new 747, or how the MD-11 is just a glorified DC-10-MAX :roll:

It's really strange that, even before the crashes, it was always the 737 MAX that got the bulk of criticism while the A320neo barely got any negativity at all. Yeah older original airframe (737 was 1960s and A320 was 1980s yada-yada-yada), but the 717 (and by extension the MD-80 and MD-90) were also extensions of ancient airframes but if anything A.net seemed to love (loved?) the 717.

Well the A320 NEO never flew itself into the ground so there is that. I should also add that the A320 NEO is the second generation of A320, whilst the MAX is the fourth.
 
Bongodog49
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 10:04 am

Next factual statement will be that Pepsi MAX isn't related to Pepsi :banghead: :white:
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 10:16 am

AirwayBill wrote:
There is something I find particularly hilarious and that is common to most specialized fields I know of: it's the people who get triggered at journalist inaccuracies and oversights.
Another field where people are that touchy is astronomy, with amateur/confirmed astronomers regularly making a big fuss about clickbait headlines or simply erronous content.
No need to play smart, what do you expect from journalists anyways?

Problem is that we and actually everybody rely on the information they provide when we make our choice during elections.

I have no problem if a journalist mixes up two kind of aircraft types. I, however, start to wonder how reliable is the information they provide for more complicated stuff such as taxes, laws, trade deals and so on and so on…

That's why I agree with this statement (despite the flack he received ... ;-) ....)

B737Captain1980 wrote:
The media has gotten so bad and wrecklace at reporting for the sake of ratings that we almost need something to put them in check on the impact their bad reporting has on industries and people’s livelihood. Irony is the media’s purpose was just for that reason, looks as if they now need some check and balance system
 
bhxalex
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 10:37 am

Welcome to the real world. We on here might know the multitude of differences between the 737-800 and the 737MAX, but to most people they look identical and have the same 737 prefix, which is usually enough to ensure they're passively grouped together as the same thing by the masses and media.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 11:35 am

bgm wrote:
Wow, the mental gymnastics on this thread are really something. :rotfl:

The 737NG IS an older version of the 737 MAX. This is exactly why Boeing got into this mess by quite literally pimping their 737 to the max.


The point in the argument is that the 737-800 IS an older version of the max, but IS NOT a MAX. Saying that something is “an older version” of the MAX (but not the 737 instead) implies that the MAX and 800 are both MAXes. Yes, the MAX-8 is an updated version of the -800, but one would not go walking around calling the -800 a downdated MAX.
Can someone please start a wikipedia list of failed startup airlines? I am interested in seeing just how long it would be...
 
astuteman
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 11:36 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
bgm wrote:
Wow, the mental gymnastics on this thread are really something. :rotfl:

The 737NG IS an older version of the 737 MAX. This is exactly why Boeing got into this mess by quite literally pimping their 737 to the max.


And yet rarely is it ever brought up these days that the A320 and A330 are older versions of the A320neo and A330neo respectively, or how the 717 is the ultimate development of the DC-9, or how the 777X is basically a stretched 777 with newer engines and wing, or how the 747-400 is a new 747, or how the MD-11 is just a glorified DC-10-MAX :roll:

It's really strange that, even before the crashes, it was always the 737 MAX that got the bulk of criticism while the A320neo barely got any negativity at all. Yeah older original airframe (737 was 1960s and A320 was 1980s yada-yada-yada), but the 717 (and by extension the MD-80 and MD-90) were also extensions of ancient airframes but if anything A.net seemed to love (loved?) the 717.


The reason the 737 gets singled out is this:-

It seemed pretty clear from the outset that the fundamental architecture of the 737 platform was challenged by the "MAX" re-engine-ing in a way that the A32X NEO was not.
Subsequent events have borne that out in spectacular style.
That is not to say that any of the platform architecture issues on the MAX either were, or are, insurmountable.
But at some point the amount of manipulation required to solve the architecture problems begs the question whether a new airframe would have been a "better" answer.

Don't forget, Boeing themselves were already arguing the case for replacing the MAX, and were literally shanghaied into launching the MAX, against their better (technical) judgement by the success of the NEO - especially the AA breakthrough.

The A32X NEO was never challenged in that way, and was without question the right answer at the right time for Airbus.

That is the reason for the difference in behaviour.
My personal view is that, if Boeing hadn't felt so pressured to respond to the NEO, and had executed the changes (particularly around MCAS) in a more holistic and thorough manner, the MAX would still look like a good solution - it has sold a lot of frames, and is very efficient.
It can still be made to be a good solution.

Sadly the MCAS fiasco, and the two attendant crashes have fed the fire of those that thought it was a step too far for the 737.

Rgds
 
triple3driver
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 11:39 am

downdata wrote:
777 - the wide body version of max
787- the dreamliner of max
797 - the latest version of max
747F - the freighter version of max
:spin:


E2- The smaller version of the MAX
A320NEO- Airbus version of the MAX
A330- Medium sized version of the MAX
A350- Extra Widebody version of the MAX
A380- Super version of the MAX
:rotfl:
Jokes aside, the media has a tendency to overstate things, just look at the DC-10 if you need any historical evidence. The article wasn't even about the MAX, yet they had to include it in there. Unfortunately, we better get used to it, I suspect that this will die down later rather than sooner.
If you can walk away from it intact, it was a good landing!
 
Reddevil556
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 12:16 pm

Choice of words means everything. Business Insider is nothing more than a click bait digital news source. I don’t work in the aviation industry and I am far from an expert, but I am competent enough to use a search engine to at least figure out basic details. A correct English sentence that would not be sensationalizing the matter would go like this. “A Boeing 737-800 series aircraft was involved an incident, the 737-800 is an earlier designed model in the 737 family of aircraft. The 737 Max is the latest variant of the 737 family and is currently grounded worldwide due to multiple deadly crashes involving a new software system.” See that is clear and concise language, but the online journalism industry doesn’t want you to actually read the article and do your own independent research. Digital media wants you to click on the article and share it. They only really care about the amount of clicks and shares.
Last edited by Reddevil556 on Tue May 14, 2019 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
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Revelation
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 12:30 pm

Seems we've stumbled upon a.net's version of the dress...

scbriml wrote:
yonahleung wrote:
If the 737-800 is not an older version of the MAX then why is there any grandfathering in certification? What's wrong with you guys?

I'm a younger version of my grandfather, but apparently, he isn't an older version of me! :D

True, because you have bits and pieces of your granddad's DNA in you, but you've got bits and pieces of DNA from your other ancestors not in him.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Gulfstream500
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 12:41 pm

triple3driver wrote:
downdata wrote:
777 - the wide body version of max
787- the dreamliner of max
797 - the latest version of max
747F - the freighter version of max
:spin:


E2- The smaller version of the MAX
A320NEO- Airbus version of the MAX
A330- Medium sized version of the MAX
A350- Extra Widebody version of the MAX
A380- Super version of the MAX
:rotfl:
Jokes aside, the media has a tendency to overstate things, just look at the DC-10 if you need any historical evidence. The article wasn't even about the MAX, yet they had to include it in there. Unfortunately, we better get used to it, I suspect that this will die down later rather than sooner.


More like:
CSeries/A220: small Canadian MAX
E-2: Small Brazilian MAX
A320neo: European MAX
bizjets: REALLY small rear-engined MAX
SuperJet 100: A combination of the A320 and 737 MAX
Can someone please start a wikipedia list of failed startup airlines? I am interested in seeing just how long it would be...
 
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 1:04 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
More like:
CSeries/A220: small Canadian MAX
E-2: Small Brazilian MAX
A320neo: European MAX
bizjets: REALLY small rear-engined MAX
SuperJet 100: A combination of the A320 and 737 MAX

C919: Communist MAX
SSJ100: Post-Communist MAX
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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DL717
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 1:19 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
A Delta Air Lines flight made an emergency landing on Sunday, a Delta representative told Business Insider.
The aircraft used for the flight was a Boeing 737-800.
USA Today reports that the emergency landing followed an issue with the aircraft's nose gear.
Boeing has come under fire in recent months following two deadly crashes involving its 737 Max aircraft.
The 737-800 is an older version of the 737 Max.


https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-b ... ing-2019-5

Just have to notice the fact that the media is grouping this with the MAX incidents. The article falsely states that the 737-800 is “an older version of the MAX”, which sounds like it is saying that it IS a MAX aircraft.


Which is exactly why when the MAX issues are resolved, no one will know the difference.
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BirdBrain
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 1:22 pm

Revelation wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
More like:
CSeries/A220: small Canadian MAX
E-2: Small Brazilian MAX
A320neo: European MAX
bizjets: REALLY small rear-engined MAX
SuperJet 100: A combination of the A320 and 737 MAX

C919: Communist MAX
SSJ100: Post-Communist MAX


You guys are killing me. Haha. What happens if they rename MAX to MAD (Max ADvanced). This site will literally melt.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 1:31 pm

Boeing might need to do the rebrand Trump suggested. When i talk to infrequent flyers they all ask me about the MAX. People are afraid to book one on their summer plans.
 
birdbrainz
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 1:38 pm

downdata wrote:
777 - the wide body version of max
787- the dreamliner of max
797 - the latest version of max
747F - the freighter version of max
:spin:


Absolutely Priceless. You forgot: A320: European version of Max.

How about: F/A-18: Single-seat combat version of Max, also made by Boeing.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 1:46 pm

birdbrainz wrote:

How about: F/A-18: Single-seat combat version of Max, also made by Boeing.

F-15X, Stealth MAX. ;)
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B757Forever
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 2:10 pm

downdata wrote:
777 - the wide body version of max
787- the dreamliner of max
797 - the latest version of max
747F - the freighter version of max
:spin:



OMG!!! That makes the 757 and 767 cousins of the MAX... We're all doomed.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 2:17 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
bgm wrote:
Wow, the mental gymnastics on this thread are really something. :rotfl:

The 737NG IS an older version of the 737 MAX. This is exactly why Boeing got into this mess by quite literally pimping their 737 to the max.


And yet rarely is it ever brought up these days that the A320 and A330 are older versions of the A320neo and A330neo respectively, or how the 717 is the ultimate development of the DC-9, or how the 777X is basically a stretched 777 with newer engines and wing, or how the 747-400 is a new 747, or how the MD-11 is just a glorified DC-10-MAX :roll:

It's really strange that, even before the crashes, it was always the 737 MAX that got the bulk of criticism while the A320neo barely got any negativity at all. Yeah older original airframe (737 was 1960s and A320 was 1980s yada-yada-yada), but the 717 (and by extension the MD-80 and MD-90) were also extensions of ancient airframes but if anything A.net seemed to love (loved?) the 717.

Well the A320 NEO never flew itself into the ground so there is that. I should also add that the A320 NEO is the second generation of A320, whilst the MAX is the fourth.


...and that first generation of A320 has lasted over 30 years with practically zero changes :yes:
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
Exeiowa
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 3:04 pm

Wow it turns out that when something bad happens the taint of that starts to spread to other things in some way related. Stop press for this amazing discovery!
 
morrisond
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 3:21 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:

And yet rarely is it ever brought up these days that the A320 and A330 are older versions of the A320neo and A330neo respectively, or how the 717 is the ultimate development of the DC-9, or how the 777X is basically a stretched 777 with newer engines and wing, or how the 747-400 is a new 747, or how the MD-11 is just a glorified DC-10-MAX :roll:

It's really strange that, even before the crashes, it was always the 737 MAX that got the bulk of criticism while the A320neo barely got any negativity at all. Yeah older original airframe (737 was 1960s and A320 was 1980s yada-yada-yada), but the 717 (and by extension the MD-80 and MD-90) were also extensions of ancient airframes but if anything A.net seemed to love (loved?) the 717.

Well the A320 NEO never flew itself into the ground so there is that. I should also add that the A320 NEO is the second generation of A320, whilst the MAX is the fourth.


...and that first generation of A320 has lasted over 30 years with practically zero changes :yes:


No the NEO has never tried to fly itself into the ground but in 2014 an A321 sure did try. https://avherald.com/h?article=47d74074
 
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 3:25 pm

B737Captain1980 wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
A Delta Air Lines flight made an emergency landing on Sunday, a Delta representative told Business Insider.
The aircraft used for the flight was a Boeing 737-800.
USA Today reports that the emergency landing followed an issue with the aircraft's nose gear.
Boeing has come under fire in recent months following two deadly crashes involving its 737 Max aircraft.
The 737-800 is an older version of the 737 Max.


https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-b ... ing-2019-5

Just have to notice the fact that the media is grouping this with the MAX incidents. The article falsely states that the 737-800 is “an older version of the MAX”, which sounds like it is saying that it IS a MAX aircraft.


The media has gotten so bad and wrecklace at reporting for the sake of ratings that we almost need something to put them in check on the impact their bad reporting has on industries and people’s livelihood. Irony is the media’s purpose was just for that reason, looks as if they now need some check and balance system


I love "wrecklace."
 
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 3:29 pm

lightsaber wrote:
birdbrainz wrote:

How about: F/A-18: Single-seat combat version of Max, also made by Boeing.

F-15X, Stealth MAX. ;)


747-8 - Big Mama Max
 
RobertPhoenix
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 4:35 pm

scbriml wrote:
You may think that, but I couldn't possibly comment!


You can't forget House of Cards.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 4:47 pm

Update:

It appears that Business Insider has updated their article to show that the -800 is an older version of the 737.

Editor's note: This story has been updated to reflect that the 737-800 is not an older version of the 737 Max, but is instead part of an older generation of 737 aircraft.
Can someone please start a wikipedia list of failed startup airlines? I am interested in seeing just how long it would be...
 
robsaw
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 5:51 pm

"Editor's note: This story has been updated to reflect that the 737-800 is not an older version of the 737 Max, but is instead part of an older generation of 737 aircraft."

"Boeing has come under fire in recent months following two deadly crashes involving its 737 Max aircraft. The 737-800 is part of an older generation of 737 aircraft."

Much clearer and precise despite overly pedantic and convoluted arguments on either side.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 7:06 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Why post here, why not email the publication in question and point out the error?Journalists aren't experts in every field imaginable. They do their research, but often get the details wrong. It's normal. Life goes on...


They're supposed to be knowledgeable in the fields in which they publish, and owners and editors are to see to it. This is a clear failure by the author and BI.

Describing a 738 as an older version of MAX implies there are relevant commonalities. If final reports of MAX crashes attribute failure to MCAS, well, 738s don't have it. Simple as that.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 7:22 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Why post here, why not email the publication in question and point out the error?Journalists aren't experts in every field imaginable. They do their research, but often get the details wrong. It's normal. Life goes on...


They're supposed to be knowledgeable in the fields in which they publish, and owners and editors are to see to it. This is a clear failure by the author and BI.

Describing a 738 as an older version of MAX implies there are relevant commonalities. If final reports of MAX crashes attribute failure to MCAS, well, 738s don't have it. Simple as that.

Oh, ok. Then it really is better that posters go bit*hin' here for, say, 100 posts more, rather than contact the journalist (it's easy, just click on his name, and up comes his bio and contact details) and give him a chance to learn and improve. Which do YOU see as more constructive?
 
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 7:24 pm

jomur wrote:
I can buy 2 same year model cars but have different engines but they are both the same model range.


Different engines have different parameters (fuel economy vs power, and are subject to tradeoffs). Let's say you want to drive a Hyundai Sonata, for example, they have a basic 2.4L normal aspirated engine and a 2.0L turbocharged engine. While the normal 2.4L gets 185 horsepower and 28 miles per gallon, the turbo 2.0L gets 60 horsepower boost , but sacrifices 2 miles per gallon, compared to the 2.4L (to get 245 and 26 bhp and mpg respectively). Even they're both physically the same shape, their behavior is different.
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MakeMinesLAX
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 7:31 pm

I read through to make sure no one brought this up, but it's interesting that the problem component in this incident - the nose gear - is markedly different on the two aircraft.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Tue May 14, 2019 11:37 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:

And yet rarely is it ever brought up these days that the A320 and A330 are older versions of the A320neo and A330neo respectively, or how the 717 is the ultimate development of the DC-9, or how the 777X is basically a stretched 777 with newer engines and wing, or how the 747-400 is a new 747, or how the MD-11 is just a glorified DC-10-MAX :roll:

It's really strange that, even before the crashes, it was always the 737 MAX that got the bulk of criticism while the A320neo barely got any negativity at all. Yeah older original airframe (737 was 1960s and A320 was 1980s yada-yada-yada), but the 717 (and by extension the MD-80 and MD-90) were also extensions of ancient airframes but if anything A.net seemed to love (loved?) the 717.

Well the A320 NEO never flew itself into the ground so there is that. I should also add that the A320 NEO is the second generation of A320, whilst the MAX is the fourth.


...and that first generation of A320 has lasted over 30 years with practically zero changes :yes:

Which means that it was a very forward thinking design
 
MGC1191
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 12:41 am

WHO THE HELL LEAKED THAT TO THE MEDIA! SECRETS OUT! RED ALERT!
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 1:20 am

speedbird52 wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
Well the A320 NEO never flew itself into the ground so there is that. I should also add that the A320 NEO is the second generation of A320, whilst the MAX is the fourth.


...and that first generation of A320 has lasted over 30 years with practically zero changes :yes:

Which means that it was a very forward thinking design


...or innovation peaked the year of EIS (88). Drugs and ghetto trash music were starting to take over the Western World at that time, and science and tech soon took a back seat.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
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intotheair
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 1:34 am

Oh, this is all clutching pearls a little too quickly. Media writes for a general audience, and when a lot of people see "737" printed somewhere, there's a good chance people may recall all the recent news with the MAX. I'm sure the writer or editor threw that line in there to provide some general context as to how the plane is related to the MAX.
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UA444
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 2:58 am

It’s amazing how outside the a.net bubble the reputation of the 737 is taking a huge hit. People checking to see if they’re on one and refusing to fly. Way to go, Boeing.
 
N649DL
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 3:09 am

Media spinning as usual FTW. The 738 doesn't have the software issues which led to downed planes or the same engine types. Yet the public is going to be scared for a while when flying on a "737" because they don't know the difference between the MAX and the NG 737s.

In fact, I chose to fly a Delta 737-800 on LAX-AUS-LAX this weekend over other aircraft types because the times were better.

Boeing had the same type of PR issues with the 787 and battery leaking but nobody was killed. If anything, Boeing needs to present transparency on their issues so the Fake News Media doesn't exploit them any further.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 4:42 am

UA444 wrote:
It’s amazing how outside the a.net bubble the reputation of the 737 is taking a huge hit. People checking to see if they’re on one and refusing to fly. Way to go, Boeing.


Sure they are. As soon as a 737 flight happens to be $20 cheaper than another flight, that’s the one they’ll book.
 
Agrajag
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 6:01 am

:rotfl: Oh the irony!!

Boeing: "how dare you suggest the Max is different to the NG..."

Boeing fan boys: "how dare you suggest the Max is the same as the NG..."
The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.
Slartibartfast had a point
 
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 6:14 am

Amusingly predictable to see the usual Boeing cultists screeching about fake news.
 
WIederling
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 8:06 am

speedbird52 wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
bgm wrote:
Wow, the mental gymnastics on this thread are really something. :rotfl:

The 737NG IS an older version of the 737 MAX. This is exactly why Boeing got into this mess by quite literally pimping their 737 to the max.


And yet rarely is it ever brought up these days that the A320 and A330 are older versions of the A320neo and A330neo respectively, or how the 717 is the ultimate development of the DC-9, or how the 777X is basically a stretched 777 with newer engines and wing, or how the 747-400 is a new 747, or how the MD-11 is just a glorified DC-10-MAX :roll:

It's really strange that, even before the crashes, it was always the 737 MAX that got the bulk of criticism while the A320neo barely got any negativity at all. Yeah older original airframe (737 was 1960s and A320 was 1980s yada-yada-yada), but the 717 (and by extension the MD-80 and MD-90) were also extensions of ancient airframes but if anything A.net seemed to love (loved?) the 717.

Well the A320 NEO never flew itself into the ground so there is that. I should also add that the A320 NEO is the second generation of A320, whilst the MAX is the fourth.

Not even that.
It is a "simple" reengine. ( Even if Airbus spent twice the amount of flying hours for certification than Boeing did for the MAX.)
Winglets and things were changed in advance, available on the CEO and now the NEO.

The MAX is a much wider scoped change over from the NG.
new engines in a decidedly different mounting,
changed front gear,
strongly changed tail structure,
new wingtip devices.
rearrangement of flight control functions over installed hardware.
Probably extensive software changes ( going well beyond just changing parameters to fit the new engines.)
finished up by a rushed certification campaign.
Murphy is an optimist
 
speedbird52
Posts: 763
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 8:31 am

WIederling wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:

And yet rarely is it ever brought up these days that the A320 and A330 are older versions of the A320neo and A330neo respectively, or how the 717 is the ultimate development of the DC-9, or how the 777X is basically a stretched 777 with newer engines and wing, or how the 747-400 is a new 747, or how the MD-11 is just a glorified DC-10-MAX :roll:

It's really strange that, even before the crashes, it was always the 737 MAX that got the bulk of criticism while the A320neo barely got any negativity at all. Yeah older original airframe (737 was 1960s and A320 was 1980s yada-yada-yada), but the 717 (and by extension the MD-80 and MD-90) were also extensions of ancient airframes but if anything A.net seemed to love (loved?) the 717.

Well the A320 NEO never flew itself into the ground so there is that. I should also add that the A320 NEO is the second generation of A320, whilst the MAX is the fourth.

Not even that.
It is a "simple" reengine. ( Even if Airbus spent twice the amount of flying hours for certification than Boeing did for the MAX.)
Winglets and things were changed in advance, available on the CEO and now the NEO.

The MAX is a much wider scoped change over from the NG.
new engines in a decidedly different mounting,
changed front gear,
strongly changed tail structure,
new wingtip devices.
rearrangement of flight control functions over installed hardware.
Probably extensive software changes ( going well beyond just changing parameters to fit the new engines.)
finished up by a rushed certification campaign.

Whilst "1989worstyear" may have a point about how the industry has had a lack of innovation, I find it so incredible that an 80s airplane has lasted so long with so few design changes. Funny enough, the basic cockpit design was carried over to the present day. Airbus should really be proud of themselves for what they did in the same way the Russians should pat themselves on the back for the R7 rocket
 
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N14AZ
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 9:47 am

UA444 wrote:
It’s amazing how outside the a.net bubble the reputation of the 737 is taking a huge hit. People checking to see if they’re on one and refusing to fly.

True, if it wouldn't be that sad I would think it's quit funny what's going on right now, for instance:

1.) receiving an E-Mail from my head of department while travelling in South East Asia "Dear N14Z, make sure that during your trip you will not fly on any 737MAX"
2.) another female colleague has a sticker on her desk with "B 737 MAX" and screens her flight itineraries for that aircraft type

Re 2.) I told her that it's not necessary anymore because all MAX's are grounded but since she is obviously quit scared she kept the sticker on her desk.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 10:41 am

Yes, it's an older version of the MAX.

But the context of saying that phrase is entirely loaded and irresponsible for a journalist to imply.
 
uta999
Posts: 720
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Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 11:45 am

Why is this even a thread?

The 737-800 IS an older version of the MAX. As is the NG, as is the 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, and 900.

That's what Boeing created and sold, on that very basis.

Just like riding a bike.
Your computer just got better
 
filipinoavgeek
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:18 am

Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 12:44 pm

All this 737 MAX hate has made me wonder: if the crashes happened to the A320neo instead (knocks on wood), would the reactions here and in non-aviation circles still be the same? Or are there certain circumstances that make the 737 MAX more hated than if it was the A320neo involved instead? Remember that even before the crashes, the MAX already seemed to have a worse reputation than the Neo.

WIederling wrote:
new wingtip devices.

Pretty sure those were tested on and offered as an option on the 737-800 and 737-900ER though, just like the sharklets and the A320ceo.
 
Gulfstream500
Topic Author
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 1:00 pm

uta999 wrote:
Why is this even a thread?

The 737-800 IS an older version of the MAX. As is the NG, as is the 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, and 900.

That's what Boeing created and sold, on that very basis.

Just like riding a bike.


The 800 is an older version of the 737. It is not a MAX
Can someone please start a wikipedia list of failed startup airlines? I am interested in seeing just how long it would be...
 
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WesternDC6B
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 1:46 pm

birdbrainz wrote:
downdata wrote:
777 - the wide body version of max
787- the dreamliner of max
797 - the latest version of max
747F - the freighter version of max
:spin:


Absolutely Priceless. You forgot: A320: European version of Max.

How about: F/A-18: Single-seat combat version of Max, also made by Boeing.


DC-3: MAX version of the Douglas DC-2.
Bristol Britannia: four-engine turboprop MAX

And for a variation on this theme, “The Boeing 737 800 is a newer, two-engine version of the Boeing 707.”
Remember: Only one dwarf in seven is Happy.
 
Silverstreak
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 2:49 am

Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 2:36 pm

Whether it is a “Max” or a “Neo” or the plethora of other marketing names, the most important title is “trust”. Today it is missing from the 737 Max. Yes, you professionals and some enthusiasts are well aware of the technical abilities of today’s airliners - BUT most customers do not even know what aircraft they traveling on. They want to believe their plane they are traveling on is 100% safe and reliable. No doubt there are many, many flights flying without incident everyday, but this Max incident maybe unforgivable. Everyday the finger of guilt is pointed at Boeing management. There are many fine airliners made today, but 737 Max will not be one of them despite any fixes that will happen. I believe the main culprit in this whole affair is a new type of management thinking (at least in the US) in manufacturing - we will tell you what you need to know. MCAS? Amazingly, didn’t seem important to Boeing-even when some pilots asked.

I have followed the industry for a long time now and enjoyed the achievements and successes in the aircraft rollouts. The Boeing chief said that the company “will own this”. Do it. As American, I have always trusted and been proud of our aircraft industries. This problem must be rectified or upper Boeing management let go.
 
ewt340
Posts: 783
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 3:11 pm

"Older Version" meaning that it's an older different version of the MAX series.

Same type of aircraft just a different version. I don't see the problem in this.
 
uta999
Posts: 720
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 am

Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 3:18 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
uta999 wrote:
Why is this even a thread?

The 737-800 IS an older version of the MAX. As is the NG, as is the 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, and 900.

That's what Boeing created and sold, on that very basis.

Just like riding a bike.


The 800 is an older version of the 737. It is not a MAX


Of course it's an older version of the MAX. The 737 is now called a MAX. It's the same bloody plane.
Your computer just got better
 
E90SLAM
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: Business insider: Boeing 737-800 is “older version of MAX”

Wed May 15, 2019 3:33 pm

The media just need to do whatever they need to catch as much attention. Even with loose facts linking up with the MAX accidents, and put unnecessary fear with the general public who don't know.
It's not "wrong", but its just somehow doesn't sound right.

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