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Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:24 am
by Ishrion
Most likely from its operating base in Lagos.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Airlineroute

Image

With 2 772 and 1 773, we'll see what they do... very skeptical on this.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:35 am
by usflyer msp
Ishrion wrote:
Most likely from its operating base in Lagos.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Airlineroute

Image

With 2 772 and 1 773, we'll see what they do... very skeptical on this.


Yep, if they actually proceed with this expansion they will the be the next collapsed Nigerian carrier. These Nigerian carriers just don't seem to get that they do not have the finances, network, nor product to be profitable on long haul routes.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:09 am
by Midwestindy
usflyer msp wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Most likely from its operating base in Lagos.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Airlineroute

Image

With 2 772 and 1 773, we'll see what they do... very skeptical on this.


Yep, if they actually proceed with this expansion they will the be the next collapsed Nigerian carrier. These Nigerian carriers just don't seem to get that they do not have the finances, network, nor product to be profitable on long haul routes.


JNB and LON will do fine, everything to Dubai and east is not smart.
-EK, ET, TK, e.t.c offer those destinations at a relatively cheap price and with a better on board product.

IAH I am not sure on, probably wiser then trying to fight DL to NYC, just need to get the oil contracts

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:26 am
by MalevTU134
Midwestindy wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Most likely from its operating base in Lagos.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Airlineroute

Image

With 2 772 and 1 773, we'll see what they do... very skeptical on this.


Yep, if they actually proceed with this expansion they will the be the next collapsed Nigerian carrier. These Nigerian carriers just don't seem to get that they do not have the finances, network, nor product to be profitable on long haul routes.


JNB and LON will do fine, everything to Dubai and east is not smart.
-EK, ET, TK, e.t.c offer those destinations at a relatively cheap price and with a better on board product.

IAH I am not sure on, probably wiser then trying to fight DL to NYC, just need to get the oil contracts

"Just need to get the oil contracts"??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks for the big laugh of the day...

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:34 am
by 9w748capt
These Nigerian carriers sure are creative when it comes to branding. Air Peace? MedView? Why not!

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:46 am
by TWA772LR
It's been nice knowing them.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:23 am
by Midwestindy
MalevTU134 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Yep, if they actually proceed with this expansion they will the be the next collapsed Nigerian carrier. These Nigerian carriers just don't seem to get that they do not have the finances, network, nor product to be profitable on long haul routes.


JNB and LON will do fine, everything to Dubai and east is not smart.
-EK, ET, TK, e.t.c offer those destinations at a relatively cheap price and with a better on board product.

IAH I am not sure on, probably wiser then trying to fight DL to NYC, just need to get the oil contracts

"Just need to get the oil contracts"??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks for the big laugh of the day...


The only reason IAH-LOS is being considered is because of the oil traffic between LOS and IAH, VFR isn't going to cut it. The oil companies were the reason UA kept IAH-LOS for so long

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:55 am
by LAX772LR
Anyone know where these 777s are coming from?

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:57 am
by mfe777
Rest In Peace, Peace Air. Sounds like a great way to drain money fast.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:08 am
by Ishrion
LAX772LR wrote:
Anyone know where these 777s are coming from?


I believe they got at least 1 from Emirates.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:11 am
by zakuivcustom
LAX772LR wrote:
Anyone know where these 777s are coming from?


They already have 2 777 - both ex-EK birds. Seems like they're getting another B773A, a ex-SQ bird.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Air-Peace

I don't think the 773A can make LOS-CAN non-stop, though, although they still got that 772ER. But maybe they'll pull a Rwandair and operate LOS-BOM-CAN?

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:25 am
by Planes4you
This reminds me of Air India saying they’d launch dfw and lax…

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:28 am
by LAX772LR
Planes4you wrote:
This reminds me of Air India saying they’d launch dfw and lax…

Air India did launch LAX.

Flew it for a while then killed it.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:50 am
by Ishrion
LAX772LR wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
This reminds me of Air India saying they’d launch dfw and lax…

Air India did launch LAX.

Flew it for a while then killed it.


That was back in 2007, right?

AI "said" they would launch flights between India and DFW/LAX in 2017 but never materialized. Assuming LAX is a relaunch.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:02 am
by Newark727
"Make no small plans?"

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:48 am
by Andy33
Any idea which London airport they intend to fly to?

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:51 am
by bhxalex
Welcome competition on LON-LOS. Must be a strong market as VS has kept it's presence and deployed it's newest aircraft there, despite cutting back most of their non-tatl flying in recent years.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:04 am
by mapletux
I suggest that this thread be merged with viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1402487

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:25 am
by readytotaxi
Andy33 wrote:
Any idea which London airport they intend to fly to?

Probably Biggin given the amount of passengers. :lol:
Really, where is the money coming from to finance this crackpot idea.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:30 am
by LAX772LR
Andy33 wrote:
Any idea which London airport they intend to fly to?

Speculation: would be surprised if it wasn't LGW, but maybe they'll throw us for a loop and go to STN.

Be beyond shocked if they (1) muster and (2) allocate the resources needed to get into LHR.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:43 am
by speedbird52
A lot of these airlines sound like the stuff I would make up for fun. I have a feeling my fictional airline that uses Concorde's and 747-200s to carry passengers between West coast US and Australasia with Honolulu as a scissor hub has a better chance of being profitable.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:05 am
by outbackair
readytotaxi wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
Any idea which London airport they intend to fly to?

Probably Biggin given the amount of passengers. :lol:
Really, where is the money coming from to finance this crackpot idea.


Huge Nigerian population in London. They will get pax if they offer good baggage allowance. People take a lot of stuff home, some are market traders who got to London for shopping. Don't assume because it's Nigeria, people can't afford to fly.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:27 am
by mapletux
Really, where is the money coming from to finance this crackpot idea.


It may surprise you to learn that banks exist in Nigeria.

https://report.ng/air-peace-fidelity-ba ... tion-deal/

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:04 am
by aircountry
Midwestindy wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

JNB and LON will do fine, everything to Dubai and east is not smart.
-EK, ET, TK, e.t.c offer those destinations at a relatively cheap price and with a better on board product.

IAH I am not sure on, probably wiser then trying to fight DL to NYC, just need to get the oil contracts

"Just need to get the oil contracts"??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks for the big laugh of the day...


The only reason IAH-LOS is being considered is because of the oil traffic between LOS and IAH, VFR isn't going to cut it. The oil companies were the reason UA kept IAH-LOS for so long


Houston have very large Nigerian living and oil business too. UA was served to LOS on 787-8 very short time until pulled out due the financial problem in Lagos and not sure security problems. The load on UA 787-8 on IAH-LOS is very good but never upgrade to bigger 787-9 on that time was not deliver yet.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:16 am
by MalevTU134
Midwestindy wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

JNB and LON will do fine, everything to Dubai and east is not smart.
-EK, ET, TK, e.t.c offer those destinations at a relatively cheap price and with a better on board product.

IAH I am not sure on, probably wiser then trying to fight DL to NYC, just need to get the oil contracts

"Just need to get the oil contracts"??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks for the big laugh of the day...


The only reason IAH-LOS is being considered is because of the oil traffic between LOS and IAH, VFR isn't going to cut it. The oil companies were the reason UA kept IAH-LOS for so long

Not disagreeing with you there, but can you seriously imagine that the oil companies will send their workers on AirPeace - or any other Nigerian temporary airline? Simply not going to happen. Some of the hardest contracts out there to get. AirPeace has a snowflake's chance in hell. And even if they do - hypothetically - get some contracts, it will be purely because of offering garbage fares, meaning they will be out of business before the ink has dried.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:29 am
by Midwestindy
aircountry wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
"Just need to get the oil contracts"??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks for the big laugh of the day...


The only reason IAH-LOS is being considered is because of the oil traffic between LOS and IAH, VFR isn't going to cut it. The oil companies were the reason UA kept IAH-LOS for so long


Houston have very large Nigerian living and oil business too. UA was served to LOS on 787-8 very short time until pulled out due the financial problem in Lagos and not sure security problems. The load on UA 787-8 on IAH-LOS is very good but never upgrade to bigger 787-9 on that time was not deliver yet.


Agreed here, there is a market for this flight, but it will not be easy and Air Peace might not have the right management to make it work

MalevTU134 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
"Just need to get the oil contracts"??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks for the big laugh of the day...


The only reason IAH-LOS is being considered is because of the oil traffic between LOS and IAH, VFR isn't going to cut it. The oil companies were the reason UA kept IAH-LOS for so long

Not disagreeing with you there, but can you seriously imagine that the oil companies will send their workers on AirPeace - or any other Nigerian temporary airline? Simply not going to happen. Some of the hardest contracts out there to get. AirPeace has a snowflake's chance in hell. And even if they do - hypothetically - get some contracts, it will be purely because of offering garbage fares, meaning they will be out of business before the ink has dried.


How do you think these oil companies travel within Africa, lol?

Do you think they fly Delta from Nigeria-Angola?...no. They are are already flying Air Peace and the like.

mapletux wrote:
Really, where is the money coming from to finance this crackpot idea.


It may surprise you to learn that banks exist in Nigeria.

https://report.ng/air-peace-fidelity-ba ... tion-deal/


No way!!!! :D

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:58 am
by MalevTU134
Midwestindy wrote:
aircountry wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

The only reason IAH-LOS is being considered is because of the oil traffic between LOS and IAH, VFR isn't going to cut it. The oil companies were the reason UA kept IAH-LOS for so long


Houston have very large Nigerian living and oil business too. UA was served to LOS on 787-8 very short time until pulled out due the financial problem in Lagos and not sure security problems. The load on UA 787-8 on IAH-LOS is very good but never upgrade to bigger 787-9 on that time was not deliver yet.


Agreed here, there is a market for this flight, but it will not be easy and Air Peace might not have the right management to make it work

MalevTU134 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

The only reason IAH-LOS is being considered is because of the oil traffic between LOS and IAH, VFR isn't going to cut it. The oil companies were the reason UA kept IAH-LOS for so long

Not disagreeing with you there, but can you seriously imagine that the oil companies will send their workers on AirPeace - or any other Nigerian temporary airline? Simply not going to happen. Some of the hardest contracts out there to get. AirPeace has a snowflake's chance in hell. And even if they do - hypothetically - get some contracts, it will be purely because of offering garbage fares, meaning they will be out of business before the ink has dried.


How do you think these oil companies travel within Africa, lol?

Do you think they fly Delta from Nigeria-Angola?...no. They are are already flying Air Peace and the like.

mapletux wrote:
Really, where is the money coming from to finance this crackpot idea.


It may surprise you to learn that banks exist in Nigeria.

https://report.ng/air-peace-fidelity-ba ... tion-deal/


No way!!!! :D

Expat workers (those that would be using any IAH-LOS flights) don't travel extensively within Africa. They have their contracts in, say, Angola, and stay put there, typically. If and when they do travel, there are certainly corporate policies of which airlines to use, and I can assure you that fly-by-night Nigerian temporary airlines are not on that list. Heck, some even avoid DT (TAAG -Angola), which has been around for decades.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:04 pm
by 5NFGS
Ishrion wrote:
Most likely from its operating base in Lagos.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Airlineroute

Image

With 2 772 and 1 773, we'll see what they do... very skeptical on this.


2 773 and 1 772 actually.

Plans are being finalized for a 3rd 773 and initial launch will be SHJ, DXB, BOM and JNB.

Their BOM and DXB service should also benefit slightly from Jet's demise as EY, just like EK carries many Africa bound pax from BOM (via Jet).

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:08 pm
by 5NFGS
Midwestindy wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Most likely from its operating base in Lagos.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Airlineroute

Image

With 2 772 and 1 773, we'll see what they do... very skeptical on this.


Yep, if they actually proceed with this expansion they will the be the next collapsed Nigerian carrier. These Nigerian carriers just don't seem to get that they do not have the finances, network, nor product to be profitable on long haul routes.


JNB and LON will do fine, everything to Dubai and east is not smart.
-EK, ET, TK, e.t.c offer those destinations at a relatively cheap price and with a better on board product.

IAH I am not sure on, probably wiser then trying to fight DL to NYC, just need to get the oil contracts


LON is actually the grave that has killed EVERY Nigerian private carrier.
BG (Bellview), VK (Virgin Nigeria), W3 (Arik), Medview amongst others have died on the route so new ideas wont hurt.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:15 pm
by Planes4you
LAX772LR wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
This reminds me of Air India saying they’d launch dfw and lax…

Air India did launch LAX.

Flew it for a while then killed it.


Ah then when they said they’d fly to DFW

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:33 pm
by usflyer msp
outbackair wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
Any idea which London airport they intend to fly to?

Probably Biggin given the amount of passengers. :lol:
Really, where is the money coming from to finance this crackpot idea.


Huge Nigerian population in London. They will get pax if they offer good baggage allowance. People take a lot of stuff home, some are market traders who got to London for shopping. Don't assume because it's Nigeria, people can't afford to fly.


P4's first mistake is he configuration of their aircaft.They are keeping the EK configuration 12F/42J/220Y on the 772 fleet and there is no way they will sell that many premium cabin seats. Wealthy Nigerians generally don't fly Nigerian carriers abroad so I don't know who they plan on selling those seats to. P4's only chance IMHO is to dense up those aircraft to something like C12/400Y and focus on serving VFR traffic with their lowered CASM. Trying to be the Nigerian EK is not going to work.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:46 pm
by behramjee
P4 hasn’t gotten any slots yet nor have they hired staff abroad nor obtained office space!

Remember their 2 B777s have been parked at LOS for over a year now.

Once they publish the schedule for these routes then only it is to be believed.

They won’t even last more than six months flying to CAN and DXB.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:56 pm
by by738
I think I'll give this one a miss.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:28 pm
by LAXdude1023
I just can’t see this getting off the ground.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:09 pm
by 5NFGS
MalevTU134 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Yep, if they actually proceed with this expansion they will the be the next collapsed Nigerian carrier. These Nigerian carriers just don't seem to get that they do not have the finances, network, nor product to be profitable on long haul routes.


JNB and LON will do fine, everything to Dubai and east is not smart.
-EK, ET, TK, e.t.c offer those destinations at a relatively cheap price and with a better on board product.

IAH I am not sure on, probably wiser then trying to fight DL to NYC, just need to get the oil contracts

"Just need to get the oil contracts"??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks for the big laugh of the day...


I agree that the big multinationals may not give Air Peace their business on long haul.

But the Nigerian government, on the basis of the Buy Nigerian Act and LOS/ABV/PHC/KAN based economic operators will sure love to patronize a Nigerian long haul operator that:
1. Collects fares in NGN without penalty. BA and KL especially have been fingered for charging higher fares on NGN Point of sale
2. Understands the average Nigerian's need for a large baggage allowance, especially to DXB and BOM for the traders
3. Serves decent NIGERIAN food
4. Operates a realistic schedule
5. Sticks to that schedule.

Arik did all of the above for the first 3 years, then LHR struck with inflated bills and general lack of cooperation approx 20 months after ops started.
his, according to many who worked and still work for W3, was influenced by BA's experiencing reducing yields.
W3 clawed traffic away from them both in LOS and ABV.


And before you say impossible to the allegation, remember AAB is on LHR's board.
And he owns 10% of IAG aka BA.

Anyhow, the above led to operational issues which started due to poor cash flow.
Why?
Poor cash flow was a result of Sir Ikhide (owner) insisting on maintaining LHR at loss, instead of making the more profitable JNB 2x daily.
JNB was W3's last long haul destination with B738.

Nigerian disease aka corruption struck.

Avoid Nigerian disease as much as you can and delay introducing LHR for as long as you can and your NGR based airline stands a better chance of survival.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:34 pm
by behramjee
5NFGS wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

JNB and LON will do fine, everything to Dubai and east is not smart.
-EK, ET, TK, e.t.c offer those destinations at a relatively cheap price and with a better on board product.

IAH I am not sure on, probably wiser then trying to fight DL to NYC, just need to get the oil contracts

"Just need to get the oil contracts"??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks for the big laugh of the day...


I agree that the big multinationals may not give Air Peace their business on long haul.

But the Nigerian government, on the basis of the Buy Nigerian Act and LOS/ABV/PHC/KAN based economic operators will sure love to patronize a Nigerian long haul operator that:
1. Collects fares in NGN without penalty. BA and KL especially have been fingered for charging higher fares on NGN Point of sale
2. Understands the average Nigerian's need for a large baggage allowance, especially to DXB and BOM for the traders
3. Serves decent NIGERIAN food
4. Operates a realistic schedule
5. Sticks to that schedule.

Arik did all of the above for the first 3 years, then LHR struck with inflated bills and general lack of cooperation approx 20 months after ops started.
his, according to many who worked and still work for W3, was influenced by BA's experiencing reducing yields.
W3 clawed traffic away from them both in LOS and ABV.


And before you say impossible to the allegation, remember AAB is on LHR's board.
And he owns 10% of IAG aka BA.

Anyhow, the above led to operational issues which started due to poor cash flow.
Why?
Poor cash flow was a result of Sir Ikhide (owner) insisting on maintaining LHR at loss, instead of making the more profitable JNB 2x daily.
JNB was W3's last long haul destination with B738.

Nigerian disease aka corruption struck.

Avoid Nigerian disease as much as you can and delay introducing LHR for as long as you can and your NGR based airline stands a better chance of survival.


A lot of what you written is true but some of it isn’t.

JNB was never profitable for W3 and in fact it’s yields were lower and losses higher than JFK in 2016 !

Also with regards to making JNB double daily, that couldn’t be done because the bilaterals between the two countries only allowed a daily service maximum.

Thirdly, W3’s main grass root problem was being misled into getting the A345s and using them for 6 years (even in 2013-14 when oil was $120-140) on LHR JFK JNB. If A332s had been obtained instead in 2009, the cash flow issue wouldn’t have been even half as bad.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:09 pm
by fcogafa
LHR to Nigeria used to be BA's most profitable routes, I don't know about now but fares were high and there were lots of customers willing to pay them. High cargo loads too.

bhxalex wrote:
Welcome competition on LON-LOS. Must be a strong market as VS has kept it's presence and deployed it's newest aircraft there, despite cutting back most of their non-tatl flying in recent years.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:10 pm
by 5NFGS
behramjee wrote:
5NFGS wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
"Just need to get the oil contracts"??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks for the big laugh of the day...


I agree that the big multinationals may not give Air Peace their business on long haul.

But the Nigerian government, on the basis of the Buy Nigerian Act and LOS/ABV/PHC/KAN based economic operators will sure love to patronize a Nigerian long haul operator that:
1. Collects fares in NGN without penalty. BA and KL especially have been fingered for charging higher fares on NGN Point of sale
2. Understands the average Nigerian's need for a large baggage allowance, especially to DXB and BOM for the traders
3. Serves decent NIGERIAN food
4. Operates a realistic schedule
5. Sticks to that schedule.

Arik did all of the above for the first 3 years, then LHR struck with inflated bills and general lack of cooperation approx 20 months after ops started.
his, according to many who worked and still work for W3, was influenced by BA's experiencing reducing yields.
W3 clawed traffic away from them both in LOS and ABV.


And before you say impossible to the allegation, remember AAB is on LHR's board.
And he owns 10% of IAG aka BA.

Anyhow, the above led to operational issues which started due to poor cash flow.
Why?
Poor cash flow was a result of Sir Ikhide (owner) insisting on maintaining LHR at loss, instead of making the more profitable JNB 2x daily.
JNB was W3's last long haul destination with B738.

Nigerian disease aka corruption struck.

Avoid Nigerian disease as much as you can and delay introducing LHR for as long as you can and your NGR based airline stands a better chance of survival.


A lot of what you written is true but some of it isn’t.

JNB was never profitable for W3 and in fact it’s yields were lower and losses higher than JFK in 2016 !

Also with regards to making JNB double daily, that couldn’t be done because the bilaterals between the two countries only allowed a daily service maximum.

Thirdly, W3’s main grass root problem was being misled into getting the A345s and using them for 6 years (even in 2013-14 when oil was $120-140) on LHR JFK JNB. If A332s had been obtained instead in 2009, the cash flow issue wouldn’t have been even half as bad.


Very correct behramjee.

On the point of JNB being profitable, I was told this by a higher-up on the flying side.
He might have been misinformed.

The point on the A345s is really salient, especially with the operation being more convoluted/expensive due to HiFly's involvement.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:15 pm
by 5NFGS
fcogafa wrote:
LHR to Nigeria used to be BA's most profitable routes, I don't know about now but fares were high and there were lots of customers willing to pay them. High cargo loads too.

bhxalex wrote:
Welcome competition on LON-LOS. Must be a strong market as VS has kept it's presence and deployed it's newest aircraft there, despite cutting back most of their non-tatl flying in recent years.


Still the same I'd say.
BA runs a daily Hi J 747 to LOS and 4 Class 772 to ABV from LHR .

Y seats start at $600 in low season and reach $1100+ in high season. Promo fares typically start from $450

And both sectors are max 06:30 long, including delays.
Cash cow I'd say

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:59 pm
by Superboi
behramjee wrote:
P4 hasn’t gotten any slots yet nor have they hired staff abroad nor obtained office space!

Remember their 2 B777s have been parked at LOS for over a year now.

Once they publish the schedule for these routes then only it is to be believed.

They won’t even last more than six months flying to CAN and DXB.


I just wonder why they had to get the B777s?
why Not get some B737NGs are fly the 6 hourish routes (LON, JNB, JED) before your Maxs comes in.
Saw the 772 on finals into Abuja like 2 fridays ago.....nice looking bird.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:42 am
by PlymSpotter
A lot of people are writing these guys off. Yet it should be noted that they already have a large fleet and a sizeable operation since 2013.

Could well be an indicator that they actually know what they are doing.

Superboi wrote:
behramjee wrote:
P4 hasn’t gotten any slots yet nor have they hired staff abroad nor obtained office space!

Remember their 2 B777s have been parked at LOS for over a year now.

Once they publish the schedule for these routes then only it is to be believed.

They won’t even last more than six months flying to CAN and DXB.


I just wonder why they had to get the B777s?
why Not get some B737NGs are fly the 6 hourish routes (LON, JNB, JED) before your Maxs comes in.
Saw the 772 on finals into Abuja like 2 fridays ago.....nice looking bird.


For a start, the monthly lease rate for a 777-300A is at best going to be on a par with that of a wingletted 737-800, potentially a lot less.

Practically, these routes are right at the edge of the 737NG's performance envelope - they would likely have some weight restrictions. Plus, a 737 just isn't large enough. There is strong demand for pax and cargo bookings, especially to LON.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:56 am
by mr02
TWA772LR wrote:
It's been nice knowing them.

Lmfao

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:21 am
by 5NFGS
Superboi wrote:
behramjee wrote:
P4 hasn’t gotten any slots yet nor have they hired staff abroad nor obtained office space!

Remember their 2 B777s have been parked at LOS for over a year now.

Once they publish the schedule for these routes then only it is to be believed.

They won’t even last more than six months flying to CAN and DXB.


I just wonder why they had to get the B777s?
why Not get some B737NGs are fly the 6 hourish routes (LON, JNB, JED) before your Maxs comes in.
Saw the 772 on finals into Abuja like 2 fridays ago.....nice looking bird.


I agree with some of your assertion about the NG, especially with what has happened to the MAX.

It would also not be a bad idea to induct some to build fleet experience pre-MAX EIS.

Do remember that they will be dealing with numerous cargo hungry pax.

So a B737/8/9 will probably leave money on the table on some routes due to limited capacity.

Also, if I remember well, half-life 777s from EK and SQ are not so expensive anymore (sub $700k/month).

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:21 am
by 5NFGS
PlymSpotter wrote:
A lot of people are writing these guys off. Yet it should be noted that they already have a large fleet and a sizeable operation since 2013.

Could well be an indicator that they actually know what they are doing.

Superboi wrote:
behramjee wrote:
P4 hasn’t gotten any slots yet nor have they hired staff abroad nor obtained office space!

Remember their 2 B777s have been parked at LOS for over a year now.

Once they publish the schedule for these routes then only it is to be believed.

They won’t even last more than six months flying to CAN and DXB.


I just wonder why they had to get the B777s?
why Not get some B737NGs are fly the 6 hourish routes (LON, JNB, JED) before your Maxs comes in.
Saw the 772 on finals into Abuja like 2 fridays ago.....nice looking bird.


For a start, the monthly lease rate for a 777-300A is at best going to be on a par with that of a wingletted 737-800, potentially a lot less.

Practically, these routes are right at the edge of the 737NG's performance envelope - they would likely have some weight restrictions. Plus, a 737 just isn't large enough. There is strong demand for pax and cargo bookings, especially to LON.


Amen to this brother

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:34 am
by mr02
What's Air Peace's current fleet?

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:43 pm
by hohd
If UA cannot make it with oil contracts, no way Air Peace can. I doubt many oil companies will give contracts to Air Peace, currently DL is getting a fair amount of oil traffic from Houston but the majority are going through Europe. Best chance for a nonstop IAH to LOS is United and they don't seem to be interested in resuming service.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:56 pm
by slcdeltarumd11
recipe for disaster.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 3:05 pm
by behramjee
When Arik flew the B738 from JNB to LOS there was a payload restriction of 24 pax departing JNB so it could only take off with 124 seats filled iso 148.

Note we at W3 offered 2 piece baggage allowance on this route too.

Pax on LOS JNB prefer the wide body SAA experience and Arik’s main selling point was attracting PHC ABV QOW bound pax on this route as they had no other choice.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 3:37 pm
by usflyer msp
5NFGS wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

JNB and LON will do fine, everything to Dubai and east is not smart.
-EK, ET, TK, e.t.c offer those destinations at a relatively cheap price and with a better on board product.

IAH I am not sure on, probably wiser then trying to fight DL to NYC, just need to get the oil contracts

"Just need to get the oil contracts"??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks for the big laugh of the day...


I agree that the big multinationals may not give Air Peace their business on long haul.

But the Nigerian government, on the basis of the Buy Nigerian Act and LOS/ABV/PHC/KAN based economic operators will sure love to patronize a Nigerian long haul operator that:
1. Collects fares in NGN without penalty. BA and KL especially have been fingered for charging higher fares on NGN Point of sale
2. Understands the average Nigerian's need for a large baggage allowance, especially to DXB and BOM for the traders
3. Serves decent NIGERIAN food
4. Operates a realistic schedule
5. Sticks to that schedule.

Arik did all of the above for the first 3 years, then LHR struck with inflated bills and general lack of cooperation approx 20 months after ops started.
his, according to many who worked and still work for W3, was influenced by BA's experiencing reducing yields.
W3 clawed traffic away from them both in LOS and ABV.


And before you say impossible to the allegation, remember AAB is on LHR's board.
And he owns 10% of IAG aka BA.

Anyhow, the above led to operational issues which started due to poor cash flow.
Why?
Poor cash flow was a result of Sir Ikhide (owner) insisting on maintaining LHR at loss, instead of making the more profitable JNB 2x daily.
JNB was W3's last long haul destination with B738.

Nigerian disease aka corruption struck.

Avoid Nigerian disease as much as you can and delay introducing LHR for as long as you can and your NGR based airline stands a better chance of survival.


1) Many carriers charge more in NGN due to its historic instability and associated difficulties converting it to hard currency and repatriating profits out of the country. It is difficult to make a profit when the funds you received have lost 20% of their value between booking and time of flight (admittedly the FGN has done a much better job with this the last year or so). The higher prices help compensate for that.

2) Increasing the baggage allowance might help P4 attract passengers but I fail to see how it makes them a sustainable, profitable carrier. They will dealing with the costs of burning more fuel and/or having more delayed baggage claims than their competitors with no additional revenue generated to compensate.

Re: Air Peace Plans to Launch Johannesburg, London, Houston, Guangzhou and Mumbai; Most Likely from Lagos.

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 3:54 pm
by Superboi
behramjee wrote:
When Arik flew the B738 from JNB to LOS there was a payload restriction of 24 pax departing JNB so it could only take off with 124 seats filled iso 148.

Note we at W3 offered 2 piece baggage allowance on this route too.

Pax on LOS JNB prefer the wide body SAA experience and Arik’s main selling point was attracting PHC ABV QOW bound pax on this route as they had no other choice.

OK, thanks for the Info....the aircraft for them would have been the A320/1Neo....(just wishing)...