BreezyIAH
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Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 7:30 pm

As the 777s get older, will they follow in line behind the 737, 757, and 767? For the older 772s and 773s
 
amstone17
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 7:44 pm

No, they aren't designed to have winglets. Boeing has been very clear about the difference between the raked tips and winglets, and their applications.

For the 777 and 787 they will always be raked wing tips that are better suited for long haul fuel savings

Winglets will remain on the shorter haul products as they provide the best savings on takeoff and approach.


The changes from the early generation 777s were made when raked tips (first developed for the 767-400) were introduced on the 200LRs I think, and then became the standard afterwards.
 
N292UX
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 7:45 pm

Besides the 777-200/777-200ER, they already have these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_d ... ed_wingtip

No need for winglets.
 
zakelwe
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:01 pm

The current 777 wing looks so old fashioned nowadays.
 
JAAlbert
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:08 pm

zakelwe wrote:
The current 777 wing looks so old fashioned nowadays.


Yes, but a so-sexy-you-could-slap-it new wing is on the way!
 
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caoimhin
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:13 pm

zakelwe wrote:
The current 777 wing looks so old fashioned nowadays.


Are you referring to the 777X or 77W when you say current? Not much about the 777X looks old fashioned to me, and the raked wingtips on the 77W look fairly modern as well.

I’ll agree that the less angular 787 and A350 wings look more attractive and modern compared to nearly everything else on the market.
 
N809FR
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:16 pm

caoimhin wrote:
zakelwe wrote:
The current 777 wing looks so old fashioned nowadays.


Are you referring to the 777X or 77W when you say current? Not much about the 777X looks old fashioned to me, and the raked wingtips on the 77W look fairly modern as well.

I’ll agree that the less angular 787 and A350 wings look more attractive and modern compared to nearly everything else on the market.


Fairly certain he’s talking about the wingtips on the -200/-200ER/-300, which I agree do look “old fashioned” anymore.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 pm

N292UX wrote:
Besides the 777-200/777-200ER, they already have these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_d ... ed_wingtip

No need for winglets.


The non-ER 777-300 also has the original, non-raked wingtip.
 
richiemo
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:18 pm

You think the current 772 wing looks old. I happen to love it. I much prefer the older, straighter, squarer lines of the 757s and 777s than today's skinny, pointed, raked wings, which aren't....manly-looking. It's why I haven't really taken to the 787. The skinny, wimpy wings. The lame sloped tail. I don't know. It's too...dainty-looking. But beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. For me, being a train and plane geek, i think they've lost much of the charm of yesteryear. No more three-hole airplanes. And trains are all stainless-steel cookie cutter types. I don;t think little boys run to watch planes and trains like they used to. It's not the same. But I digress....
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:23 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
Besides the 777-200/777-200ER, they already have these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_d ... ed_wingtip

No need for winglets.


The non-ER 777-300 also has the original, non-raked wingtip.


I know the -200LR has raked wingtips, but does the -200ER have them? It looks like non-raked wingtips to me.

 
Starfuryt
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:25 pm

200/200ER/300 no raked wingtips
200LR/300ER raked wingtips
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:32 pm

As good of a place as any to ask a question I've never heard brought up before: What about winglets on horizontal stabilizers? I suppose there's a good reason why not, just never heard it asked or explained. Thanks!
 
Starfuryt
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:35 pm

BN727227Ultra wrote:
As good of a place as any to ask a question I've never heard brought up before: What about winglets on horizontal stabilizers? I suppose there's a good reason why not, just never heard it asked or explained. Thanks!


viewtopic.php?t=772115
 
N292UX
Posts: 413
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:40 pm

NYPECO wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
Besides the 777-200/777-200ER, they already have these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_d ... ed_wingtip

No need for winglets.


The non-ER 777-300 also has the original, non-raked wingtip.


I know the -200LR has raked wingtips, but does the -200ER have them? It looks like non-raked wingtips to me.


The -200ER does not. The original 772, 777-200ER, and the original 777-300 (Non ER) have no raked wingtips.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:41 pm

Starfuryt wrote:
BN727227Ultra wrote:
As good of a place as any to ask a question I've never heard brought up before: What about winglets on horizontal stabilizers? I suppose there's a good reason why not, just never heard it asked or explained. Thanks!


viewtopic.php?t=772115


Thank you!
 
VC10er
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:48 pm

richiemo wrote:
You think the current 772 wing looks old. I happen to love it. I much prefer the older, straighter, squarer lines of the 757s and 777s than today's skinny, pointed, raked wings, which aren't....manly-looking. It's why I haven't really taken to the 787. The skinny, wimpy wings. The lame sloped tail. I don't know. It's too...dainty-looking. But beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. For me, being a train and plane geek, i think they've lost much of the charm of yesteryear. No more three-hole airplanes. And trains are all stainless-steel cookie cutter types. I don;t think little boys run to watch planes and trains like they used to. It's not the same. But I digress....


I must AGREE with you, but also disagree with you!

I too absolutely LOVE the razor straight lines of the 777-200 & 300. I don’t mind the raked tips, but the razor sharp lines of the wings, tail wing, screwdriver fuselage tip, the even taper of the rear of the fuselage, even its simple nose and eyes! It is the same reason that I am NOT fond of the lines of an A330.
But I don’t see the 787 as dainty, to my eye, “personally” she is graceful, to me a 789 is near flawless aesthetically. Completely different than any prior Boeing, but she just looks and feels so effortless upon take-off. I love the A350 also, but sadly have yet to fly her.
I also LOVE the 787 interior, the size of the windows and size of the “window wells” which in a long row of arches, look like a futuristic Roman aqua duct!

Off topic: I wish Boeing had done “something” with the nose or windshield of the 737MAX, all I see is a 707! Even if she was given 787 style windshields, she would have looked a bit more “new tech”. :-)
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
N766UA
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 8:56 pm

Of course Northwest will have to retire the DC-9’s some day, the question is what will replace them?
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 9:02 pm

Going forward...nothing small, low-tech or old-fashioned in this..... :point:


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"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
DFW17L
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Thu May 16, 2019 9:57 pm

“Off topic: I wish Boeing had done “something” with the nose or windshield of the 737MAX, all I see is a 707!”

You make it sound like a bad thing. When I see the 737 nose, it reminds me of Joe Petroni and the 707 in Airport.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Will 777s get winglets?

Fri May 17, 2019 12:09 am

amstone17 wrote:
For the 777 and 787 they will always be raked wingtips that are better suited for long haul fuel savings


I keep seeing this repeated, but I've never found any data to support it. Planar wingtip extensions ("raked tips") have some advantages over nonplanar devices ("winglets").
As compared to winglets, raked tips offer comparable fuel savings for a smaller wetted area and added weight of the device itself. As compared to raked tips, winglets offer less span increase and less increased bending moment on the wing spar. Because of the increased bending moment, raked tips are generally a better choice for wings that were designed with this kind of device from the beginning, whereas winglets are generally a better choice for wings that will need spar strengthening to attach the device, like the A320, 757, and 767.

Moreover, short-haul aircraft usually are parked at gates that are more closely spaced. Thus, having a raked tip would make an aircraft like the 737 impractical for this application. The raked tip is used on the P8, which is a military 737 variant.

With the 777X, Boeing decided to try to get the best of both worlds by making the planar tip extension fold once the aircraft is on the ground. This way, the aircraft can enjoy the benefits of a raked tip without the added span at the gate. It would not surprise me if that technology is incorporated into the NSA.

Why doesn't Airbus use the raked tip? Airbus's wing design philosophy is to have an unbroken line of flaps from the wing root to the outboard aileron without an inboard aileron, which increases start L/D. Without an inboard aileron, the wing must be made stiffer so as to avoid a twisting motion that could lead to a very dangerous control reversal when ailerons deflect. By contrast, Boeing strives to make the lightest wing possible, meaning that an inboard aileron must be used at high speeds. They got around the issue of having a break in the flaps by installing "flaperons" on the 777 and 787, but at the price of increased mechanical complexity. One of the benefits of a raked tip is that the center of lift on the wingtip extension is aft of the center of lift on the main wing. When a gust hits the raked tip, it makes increased lift, which causes the outboard section of the wing to twist slightly downward, providing gust unloading. This allows a slightly lighter spar. But for the Airbus wing, the raked tip would not be able to twist the outboard section of the wing enough to unload the gust. So Airbus has gone for a kind of hybrid device that is part tip extension and part nonplanar wingtip.
-Doc Lightning-

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