DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3219
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Bombardier CRJ, upgrade or sunset product line? Re-engine after all?

Fri May 31, 2019 4:09 pm

eugdjinn wrote:
How about this for a radical answer: BBD or a clever successor should hold onto the program and then REWING and SHORTEN the 900s to create more 700s

Shocked? Here's the business case: In the US, scope is pretty well a done deal and will hold, at 76 seats max. And in that market, while the 900 may be cheaper to operate than the E175, all three mainlines and even Alaska have chosen the E175 (E1), pretty resoundingly. While there are a few more top off orders for the 900 left to be built, the writing is, sadly, on the wall.

However, the wing spar that once limited the life of the 700 to 20 years give or take can now have a plate added and with regular C-checks allow the frame to fly on for 40+ years - a serious service life. Which means there is money to be made supporting it, provided there are enough in service.... Clearly scope clauses aren't going to allow all of the 900s to fly alongside 175s though and its time to plan a way for them to have that new life.

And here's where it gets fun; United now thinks they want to make 50 seat aircraft out of 700 frames, the newly floated CRJ 550 - a one flight attendant 10 biz seat, 20 econ plus, 20 steerage version - which, is, I'll grant, clever. (When SkyWest took their first 700 someone told me the difference in operating cost between a 200 and a 700 was in essence the cost of the second flight attendant.) Couple that with the AA scope contract where every single 50 seat and 44 seat aircraft can be replaced with a 65-seat configured 700 at no penalty and its clear that the best option available to Doug & Co. is to lay their hands on every 700 frame on earth and install the 'Atmosphere' cabin if it proves itself capable of ending valet checks... and park the 200s and the 140/145 post haste!

According to Wikipedia (o.k. - take it with a grain of salt) there are only 330 700s in the world. But with some 489 900 frames built and more on order, that makes the potential value in the US market of a program to pull a 900 apart, shorten the fuselage plugs that made her a 900 and not a 700, and give her 700 wings a possibly viable program. As I understand it, the engines are the same for the later 700 series and while there are other control differences... recreating her as a 750 might be a worthwhile endeavor. I would leave a little more length in front to keep the forward lavatory, and in back to give a Crew bag closet, and do a slight expansion of the 700 galley so that meals are easily accommodated. That said, I think it has the potential to provide a continuing revenue stream in the secondary market and a real way forward as we look at how to see small cities/markets get served in the future, without cutting frequency by instantly forcing them to mainline aircraft only.

Would it work?


Hard to say the big 3 have chosen the 175 overwhelmingly. Delta Connection has ~125 E-Jets (170/175) and ~200 2 class CRJ's. It would not surprise me to see Delta order 20-25 brand new 900's to replace older 700's in the near future as well. Only UA & AS heavily favors the 175 over the CRJ9.
From my cold, dead hands
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 583
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Bombardier CRJ, upgrade or sunset product line? Re-engine after all?

Fri May 31, 2019 4:23 pm

Current CRJ900s are pretty much all flying, and are most probably worth more as is than modified ($$) to a shrink CRJ750. There would be more potential for new built instead.
 
eugdjinn
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 5:58 pm

Re: Bombardier CRJ, upgrade or sunset product line? Re-engine after all?

Fri May 31, 2019 4:38 pm

Were that to be true, Delta wouldn't have ordered 25 175SCs flown by SkyWest primarily in LGA to replace 700s those would also have been 900s. Or they'd just have kept the 700s. Those 700s are either in AA paint, or sitting in Tucson. They cannot be replaced with 76 seat aircraft by scope.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3219
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Bombardier CRJ, upgrade or sunset product line? Re-engine after all?

Fri May 31, 2019 4:49 pm

eugdjinn wrote:
Were that to be true, Delta wouldn't have ordered 25 175SCs flown by SkyWest primarily in LGA to replace 700s those would also have been 900s. Or they'd just have kept the 700s. Those 700s are either in AA paint, or sitting in Tucson. They cannot be replaced with 76 seat aircraft by scope.


But the order last summer by Delta RJ was for 20 CRJ900SC to replace 20 CRJ700 at Skywest...

So don’t pretend the 175 is totally owning the market. Most of the 170/175 at Delta Connection are owned by the operating carrier, not Delta.
From my cold, dead hands
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

Re: Bombardier CRJ, upgrade or sunset product line? Re-engine after all?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:49 pm

What about 50 seaters? CRJ200 are on the decline in terms of numbers, but there still seems to be a need for these small jets. Will these change to just be CRJ700/ERJ70 with more premium seating to lower capacity to 50 seats? Or is there space for development of a new plane?

The idea of converting 70 seaters by adding more premium space, is there a demand for more premium seating on regional flights? Or is this seen as a low cost way to handle the 50 seat segment with a willingness to upgrade lots of people when premium seats don't sell? Proportionally, doing like UA is thinking would mean 20% of the seats would be first class, compared to 10% on a 737-7. It is also just 4 more seats, so may not be a big deal. But if they are not already selling the 6 premium and just using them as upgrades, this would just be more of the same.

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