airboeingbus
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Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 8:34 am

I was thinking Airbus and Boeing are in a very strong duopoly they pretty much own the commercial aviation market. As much as they compete in some areas surely there are some areas where they work together where there interests align. Whilst I know they have worked together in the interests in safety I wonder if they ever consult each other with there business decisions as surely it is in the interest of both party’s to maintain the duopoly that exists? As much as the both companies may appear to resent each other if for example Airbus collapsed that would affect the wider aviation market and more specifically Boeing in a big way. Any thoughts?
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 9:01 am

Of course. It's Economics 101.

Pepsi and Coke are another classic example. It is in their interest to be 50:50 and keep the barriers of entry high enough for a third player to bite the dust even before they've gotten started.
Vahroone
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 9:39 am

There was a great article (Reuters iirc) recently posted and lost in one of the endless MAX threads about why you don't see Airbus jumping for joy at Boeing's woes, quite the contrary in fact.

The stability of the duopoly is mutually beneficial. The weakness of one generates uncertainty and puts undue pressure on the other one.
Quite an interesting case of economic symbiosis which, as said above, would fascinate any scholar in macro economy.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 2:15 pm

Business decision can not "seen" to be coordinated as that wound invite antimonopoly/collusion scrutiny. Back in the '90, there was a technical exchange where engineers from each company worked in the other factory's for a rotation. Not sure if any of that exists now.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 2:36 pm

Come at this from another direction....

I'm convinced that they share fireside chats about just where they can do business together. One day a SSTO spaceplane will be required for the commercial market. I can honestly see Boeing sharing the cost with Airbus as there won't be much State aid available for this non-military project.
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 3:30 pm

Excellent perspective from Mentour Pilot :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwVXnYYRXcs
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 3:34 pm

airboeingbus wrote:
Any thoughts?


I think your understanding of U.S. antitrust law is wholly inadequate, as is your knowledge of the typical training in such matters that is regularly given to execs of U.S. firms.
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 3:47 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
Of course. It's Economics 101.

Pepsi and Coke are another classic example. It is in their interest to be 50:50 and keep the barriers of entry high enough for a third player to bite the dust even before they've gotten started.

They are 50:50 (or close to it) only because Pepsi is more diversified. It owns Tropicana, Quaker and Gatorade vs. Coke which owns only Minute Maid. When it comes to taste, it's no contest. Pepsi is flat and dull.

Powerful advertising can accomplish amazing results, though.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 3:59 pm

airboeingbus wrote:
I was thinking Airbus and Boeing are in a very strong duopoly they pretty much own the commercial aviation market. As much as they compete in some areas surely there are some areas where they work together where there interests align. Whilst I know they have worked together in the interests in safety I wonder if they ever consult each other with there business decisions as surely it is in the interest of both party’s to maintain the duopoly that exists? As much as the both companies may appear to resent each other if for example Airbus collapsed that would affect the wider aviation market and more specifically Boeing in a big way. Any thoughts?


They don't need to work together to maintain the status quo. It's self-sustaining, based on regulatory and economic forces; as long as it requires many, many billions over decades to enter the market in a meaningful way, that will not change. That they've reached this point (or been allowed to) is a reality (good and bad) that US and EU competition regulators have blessed.

Having said all that, Russia has tried and failed, but China will not. It is only a matter of time until Comac products become a viable 3rd option. Possibly not in our lifetimes, but sooner than the cynics on a.net believe.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 4:08 pm

they were in discussion to do a VLA together, after Boeing declined to pursue further Airbus developed the A380
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 4:16 pm

As Mentour Pilots put it ( link in my previous post )
Bashing Boeing would hurt aviation as a whole, would hurt 'trust' in the industry, a price war wouldn't benefit either player, each player simply upgrading an older product keeps one from spending for 'clean sheet' before the technology warrants ....
 
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sassiciai
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 4:18 pm

Interesting question, most of the early posts have totally missed the point, IMHO

It is obvious that Airbus and Boeing meet frequently and regularly at all sorts of association meetings, standards, regulatory, conferences, briefings, exhibitions, et al, and that the men&women of each team will meet, socialise, and share war stories. This will depend on the event, but will mean that from CEO-level down to those whose jobs entail sometimes representing the company will go and meet their colleagues from the other company! This is just absolutely natural, and probably also healthy! Nothing like being cocooned in one company's culture for forgetting that there is an outside world that contains alternatives

A & B compete, for sure. But the 2 companies also share a lot of things, including much where they are not competitive. For sure, in such spheres, they work directly together. Just how close the collaboration gets to the competitive edge of things, I have no idea!
 
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sassiciai
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 4:51 pm

Just to add to my previous post ............

In my own pre-retirement sphere of IT solutions provision, there was always a quite high merry-go-round of employees who would each bring experiences from ex-employers to the new employer, that was always very refreshing and rejuvenating for all involved. It is actually a necessity to avoid any one culture becoming too convinced of its own way as being the only way!
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 5:14 pm

FTMCPIUS wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
Of course. It's Economics 101.

Pepsi and Coke are another classic example. It is in their interest to be 50:50 and keep the barriers of entry high enough for a third player to bite the dust even before they've gotten started.

They are 50:50 (or close to it) only because Pepsi is more diversified. It owns Tropicana, Quaker and Gatorade vs. Coke which owns only Minute Maid. When it comes to taste, it's no contest. Pepsi is flat and dull.

Powerful advertising can accomplish amazing results, though.


KO owns or at least is a large shareholder of Monster, which is giving Red Bull a run for their money.
 
masseybrown
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 5:47 pm

Boeing, Douglas, Lockheed, and Convair used to help each other out when safety issues arose for any one of them. I don't see why Boeing and Airbus wouldn't do the same.
 
1989worstyear
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sat May 18, 2019 5:59 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
As Mentour Pilots put it ( link in my previous post )
Bashing Boeing would hurt aviation as a whole, would hurt 'trust' in the industry, a price war wouldn't benefit either player, each player simply upgrading an older product keeps one from spending for 'clean sheet' before the technology warrants ....


Nowadays one might argue that A and B constantly warming over their Cold War Era NB designs might impact the long-term sustainability of the industry, especially when GHG emissions becoming increasingly scrutinized.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3500
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: Are Airbus and Boeing closer than we think?

Sun May 19, 2019 12:40 am

FTMCPIUS wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
Of course. It's Economics 101.

Pepsi and Coke are another classic example. It is in their interest to be 50:50 and keep the barriers of entry high enough for a third player to bite the dust even before they've gotten started.

They are 50:50 (or close to it) only because Pepsi is more diversified. It owns Tropicana, Quaker and Gatorade vs. Coke which owns only Minute Maid. When it comes to taste, it's no contest. Pepsi is flat and dull.

Powerful advertising can accomplish amazing results, though.

You should inform Coke that they only own Minute Maid and not the hundreds of other brands they also own...
https://www.coca-colacompany.com/packages/brands

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