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RWA380
Posts: 5747
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 9:25 pm

catiii wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Here is why AAG would be the surviving name in a merger, B6 has been fighting to keep up financially, AAG is well on it's way to a huge nest egg in cash from their VX acquisition. AS dividends are returning more now, than B6 is projecting into 20-21.

It's not an emotional remark, it's pure business facts. As EA CO AS stated, the people running AAG now, have been doing an excellent job for more than just 2 decades. They will be able to determine the value of keeping B6 a seperate entity vs merging it into AS.But again, this isn't going to happen, no need to berate people who don't agree with your feelings regarding B6, your arguement ends, when you can't be civil.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/05/ ... a-buy.aspx


By this logic Continental, which was in a much better financial position than United ahead of their merger, should have been the surviving name.[/quote]

Until you can pop some facts out, your assertions are just that. You are still spending time trying to win a losing arguement. B6 is trying to retain marketshare in BOS & JFK against DL. Do you really think one A-321neo flight to STN or LGW (if they are lucky) is going to make B6 a global entity?

They couldn't make LGB work, despite being the dominant carrier (no brand recognition). The article shows that LGB is not a hub & they are not protecting it any longer. B6 is dead on the west coast with the exception of their T-cons, which are likely East Coasters going West. Since you have all the facts, try checking the POS in S. California on B6 vs AS.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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nine4nine
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 10:32 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
I dont understand the constant argument on what airline names people think of depending on where they are in the US. For what its worth If you want to argue that nobody thinks "Alaska" in the east/Caribbean or nobody thinks "jetBlue" on the west coast I would argue "those people" dont care what airline they are flying at all and only want lowest price available and as long as Alaska/jetblue are competitive in that area then it doesnt matter. The only airline that has shown their name carries any weight is WN. Every other airline is on these third party websites (expedia/hotwire etc) so please just stop with the empty no data argument that people dont think Alaska in the east and vice versa with jetblue in the west. Im not saying that there is nobody that seeks out Alaska in the west or nobody seeks out Jetblue in the east. Im simply saying its not enough people that it actually matters. People would figure out what Alaska is real quick if the price is right out of SJU. This isnt like Whataburger opening a store in Oregon..... :roll:



Obviously you aren’t very in tune with business marketing. While price is a driving factor it’s not a deciding factor. The name is the recognition that people relate to. People buy Coca Cola and Pepsi because of the brand recognition not the price. If what you are saying is true then RC Cola, Vernors, Tab and Diet Rite (all lower priced than the majors) would be competative in market share and brand recognition with Coca Cola and Pepsi. But they are not. When was the last time any of you bought those for the sake of price?

In this case both are very reasonable priced carriers with outstanding service. The difference in regards to the brand is huge. B6 has a national name recognition even though they are east coast heavy. AS has a strong name west of the Rockies but it’s name identifies them as a regional carrier. People are not going to put two and two together that you can fly Alaska Airlines from Boston to Cartagena. Nobody would ever think of going to alaskaair.com to book such a flight. The only way people would ever get booked on such would be through a 3rd party like Expedia etc...
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westgate
Posts: 157
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 11:27 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
westgate wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Texas Air Corp had several airlines at one time, I believe. EA, CO, New York Air.


But that was all for a relatively short period of time during the post-degulation shake-up of the US airline industry. Eastern was spun-off and sold (subsequently collapsing), whereas Texas International, People's Express, Frontier and New York Air were all rolled into Continental Airlines not long after, which effectively proves the point I was making


Except you're wrong; EA sold itself to and became a wholly-owned subsidiary of Texas Air Corporation. There was no "spin off" at all.


Well, as per Wikipedia :

As a result of the strike, weakened airline structure, high fuel prices, inability to compete after deregulation and other financial problems, Eastern filed for bankruptcy protection on March 9, 1989. This allowed Lorenzo to continue operating the airline with non-union employees. However, in 1991, the courts removed Eastern from Texas Air's control, citing neglect and mismanagement. The court appointed Martin Shugrue as Eastern's trustee to oversee its operations. Eastern tried to remain in business in an attempt to correct its cash flow, but to no avail.


So the in a sense the courts actually 'spun off' Eastern from Texas Air due to Lorenzo's neglect and mismanagement of the airline.

Regardless, most people look back at the whole Texas Air Eastern/Continental tie up as one giant fiasco, that ultimately led to the demise and complete failure of one of the original US government designated Big 4 Airlines . . . and in the context of this thread, only ONE airline brand remained after that whole failed experiment i.e. Continental, with at least 5 others disappearing completely i.e. Eastern, Texas International, People's Express, Frontier and New York Air !!!

The tie up between CO and EA only lasted from 1986 to 1991, and ended with the courts splitting them up and the subsequent death of EA. In comparison, the CO and NW tie-up, where NW owned a 'Golden Share' in CO, lasted for a good 10 years from 1998 until 2008, at which point CO bought the 'Golden Share' back as NW merged with DL.

So to further clarify, two distinct airline brands that are owned by the same entity never seem to last very long in the USA. One will eventually get rolled into the other or just fail completely as was the case with EA.
Last edited by westgate on Tue May 28, 2019 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 11:31 pm

nine4nine wrote:
While price is a driving factor it’s not a deciding factor. The name is the recognition that people relate to. People buy Coca Cola and Pepsi because of the brand recognition not the price. If what you are saying is true then RC Cola, Vernors, Tab and Diet Rite (all lower priced than the majors) would be competative in market share and brand recognition with Coca Cola and Pepsi. But they are not. When was the last time any of you bought those for the sake of price?


:redflag:

Unless they have a special affinity for a particular airline and/or brand stickiness due to an existing mileage program membership or credit card affiliation, most people are brand agnostic when it comes to purchasing air travel.

Price and schedule are the number 1 and number 2 drivers for purchase decisions, followed by amenities and so on. People have shown time and again that they'll take flights at ridiculous times to save $5.00 each way, etc. Why do you think people began clamoring to fly WN and recognizing them as a brand starting in the mid 90s? It wasn't because people just loved peanuts and no assigned seating - it was because they were perceived to be the best price (even when they weren't always so!). That's why people looked for WN, because of the price.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 11:34 pm

westgate wrote:
So the in a sense the courts actually 'spun off' Eastern from Texas Air due to Lorenzo's neglect and mismanagement of the airline


That's not what a spin off means in the business sense, nor was it what you meant when you posted if you had to resort to citing a Wikipedia page to get your info and saying, "Uhhhh, well, it's basically the same thing, in a sense..." Just admit you were wrong and move on; we'll all respect you a whole lot more for an honest mea culpa than desperately trying to save face.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
westgate
Posts: 157
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 12:23 am

EA CO AS wrote:
westgate wrote:
So the in a sense the courts actually 'spun off' Eastern from Texas Air due to Lorenzo's neglect and mismanagement of the airline


That's not what a spin off means in the business sense, nor was it what you meant when you posted if you had to resort to citing a Wikipedia page to get your info and saying, "Uhhhh, well, it's basically the same thing, in a sense..." Just admit you were wrong and move on; we'll all respect you a whole lot more for an honest mea culpa than desperately trying to save face.


I apologise that I didn't do my research before my first post, but regardless, the courts removed Eastern from Texas Air. I didn't remember exactly what had happened prior to my brief Wiki research so I incorrectly used the term 'spun-off' to describe the general situation of what I thought had happened.

And by the way, your exact words :

EA CO AS wrote:
EA sold itself to and became a wholly-owned subsidiary of Texas Air Corporation. There was no "spin off" at all.


That may have happened when EA initially came under the control of Texas Air, but it was abundantly clear in my original post that I was referring to their split from that corporation, and not the original acquisition.

You should have yourself stated that the court removed EA when you took the opportunity to correct my error in the first place. Instead you referred to an entirely different part of the process and only confused things even more.
 
Bluewho
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 1:40 am

nine4nine wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:
I dont understand the constant argument on what airline names people think of depending on where they are in the US. For what its worth If you want to argue that nobody thinks "Alaska" in the east/Caribbean or nobody thinks "jetBlue" on the west coast I would argue "those people" dont care what airline they are flying at all and only want lowest price available and as long as Alaska/jetblue are competitive in that area then it doesnt matter. The only airline that has shown their name carries any weight is WN. Every other airline is on these third party websites (expedia/hotwire etc) so please just stop with the empty no data argument that people dont think Alaska in the east and vice versa with jetblue in the west. Im not saying that there is nobody that seeks out Alaska in the west or nobody seeks out Jetblue in the east. Im simply saying its not enough people that it actually matters. People would figure out what Alaska is real quick if the price is right out of SJU. This isnt like Whataburger opening a store in Oregon..... :roll:



Obviously you aren’t very in tune with business marketing. While price is a driving factor it’s not a deciding factor. The name is the recognition that people relate to. People buy Coca Cola and Pepsi because of the brand recognition not the price. If what you are saying is true then RC Cola, Vernors, Tab and Diet Rite (all lower priced than the majors) would be competative in market share and brand recognition with Coca Cola and Pepsi. But they are not. When was the last time any of you bought those for the sake of price?

In this case both are very reasonable priced carriers with outstanding service. The difference in regards to the brand is huge. B6 has a national name recognition even though they are east coast heavy. AS has a strong name west of the Rockies but it’s name identifies them as a regional carrier. People are not going to put two and two together that you can fly Alaska Airlines from Boston to Cartagena. Nobody would ever think of going to alaskaair.com to book such a flight. The only way people would ever get booked on such would be through a 3rd party like Expedia etc...



Exactly, if it did happen it’s going to be JetBlue, not that there is anything wrong with ALK but it just does not work, away from their focus city’s. It’s all about brands you can buy Frosted Flakes with a tiger for 5 bucks or frosty flakes for 3.
What do you think you are paying for? That “brand and name” are worth something and when you want to cover a lot more area than the west coast it needs to be something like JetBlue.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 655
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 1:54 am

EA CO AS wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
While price is a driving factor it’s not a deciding factor. The name is the recognition that people relate to. People buy Coca Cola and Pepsi because of the brand recognition not the price. If what you are saying is true then RC Cola, Vernors, Tab and Diet Rite (all lower priced than the majors) would be competative in market share and brand recognition with Coca Cola and Pepsi. But they are not. When was the last time any of you bought those for the sake of price?


:redflag:

Unless they have a special affinity for a particular airline and/or brand stickiness due to an existing mileage program membership or credit card affiliation, most people are brand agnostic when it comes to purchasing air travel.

Price and schedule are the number 1 and number 2 drivers for purchase decisions, followed by amenities and so on. People have shown time and again that they'll take flights at ridiculous times to save $5.00 each way, etc. Why do you think people began clamoring to fly WN and recognizing them as a brand starting in the mid 90s? It wasn't because people just loved peanuts and no assigned seating - it was because they were perceived to be the best price (even when they weren't always so!). That's why people looked for WN, because of the price.


I don’t think many people on the eastern seaboard have any special affinity to AS or it’s program outside of a few who travel frequently and originating NYC On JFK-SFO/SEA/LAX and that’s about it. Compared to the offerings of all the competition on those routes the premium product is pretty flat.

Comparing WN to AS is a big difference. WN had established more than a small handful of intra-east coast routes and has had a quasi hub at BWI for over two decades. AS has non such. WN brought a unique and new type of service and fare that didn’t exist at that time. AS doesn’t really compare at all in today’s market so bringing your scenario into this is pretty pointless as there are very little to no similarities in comparison to the two carriers. AS pricing on East-West falls pretty much on par with AA, DL and UA. Not always the cheapest fare.

I’m not knocking AS or an AS hater. I love AS and have always had a very pleasurable experience with them. They even charge only $30 for me to travel with my surfboards now which is awesome. I actually fly them fairly often to Mexico and SEA. But I think you’re perception of them is rather higher than what they actually are.
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Bluewho
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 2:43 am

Also the other thing to look at was the purchase of Vx was to defend the west coast where the ALK is a well known name. If they were to merge with JetBlue that’s a whole different ball game. You are talking the 5th big major. Not just a west coast centric airline.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 3:00 am

nine4nine wrote:
AS doesn’t really compare at all in today’s market so bringing your scenario into this is pretty pointles s .


Well, in fairness, this entire thread is pointless. The OP posts an alleged watercooler rumor about a merger - which they themselves don’t believe - and here we are 200 posts later arguing over ... what exactly? It’s not a new topic, it’s not a real rumor, and it’s apparently only accomplished one thing - stir up trouble.

Mission accomplished, right Blueknows?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
catiii
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 3:47 am

RWA380 wrote:
catiii wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Here is why AAG would be the surviving name in a merger, B6 has been fighting to keep up financially, AAG is well on it's way to a huge nest egg in cash from their VX acquisition. AS dividends are returning more now, than B6 is projecting into 20-21.

It's not an emotional remark, it's pure business facts. As EA CO AS stated, the people running AAG now, have been doing an excellent job for more than just 2 decades. They will be able to determine the value of keeping B6 a seperate entity vs merging it into AS.But again, this isn't going to happen, no need to berate people who don't agree with your feelings regarding B6, your arguement ends, when you can't be civil.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/05/ ... a-buy.aspx


By this logic Continental, which was in a much better financial position than United ahead of their merger, should have been the surviving name.


Until you can pop some facts out, your assertions are just that. You are still spending time trying to win a losing arguement. B6 is trying to retain marketshare in BOS & JFK against DL. Do you really think one A-321neo flight to STN or LGW (if they are lucky) is going to make B6 a global entity?

They couldn't make LGB work, despite being the dominant carrier (no brand recognition). The article shows that LGB is not a hub & they are not protecting it any longer. B6 is dead on the west coast with the exception of their T-cons, which are likely East Coasters going West. Since you have all the facts, try checking the POS in S. California on B6 vs AS.[/quote]

Again, by your rationale, CO should have been the surviving brand given it’s financial strength over UA, no?
 
catiii
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 3:51 am

RWA380 wrote:
catiii wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

You've been doing it, you have zero idea what the brand recognition is for either carrier & your insistance only makes your pleas more "footed in reality"? Please, you are a B6 fanboy who it's getting far too insulted over something that will never happen to begin with.

Your claims are as based in reality as most here. No insult intended, but you have zero data to back up your assertions or you would have pulled it out already. Feel the way you want, as you say I am, but there is no need to be rude & insulting by using schoolyard name calling.


Schoolyard name calling? Go show me where I called you a name.

I do have data. Reams and reams of it. I can tell you how JetBlue's brand health outperforms Alaska in the LA Basin, NorCal, TCON, BOS, NYC, INTL, etc, and its relative brand health in other markets. I can tell you how JetBlue outperforms Alaska on the most important rational and emotional drivers of market share. I can tell you how JetBlue outperforms Alaska on the 35+ metrics in the price, quality, reputation, and performance buckets used to determine brand strength and health. I can tell you how JetBlue holds a dominant brand position against Alaska for overall value perception. I can tell you how JetBlue holds a dominant brand position against Alaska for value for money, delivering a consistently superior CEX, quality and price gaps, etc. But I am not so dumb as to post such data on a site like this. Glad to talk offline though. Or, Google is your friend if you want a high level as it's been talked out at industry events.

Do you have any data? I mean beyond an anecdote that Alaska's superior international brand is predicated on someone in Japan opening a box of salmon up that has an Alaska sticker on it?


If you refer to someone as "dumb" that's schoolyard antics & a level I refuse to step to, I am an investor in AAG & I have the information provided to me, because of my investment, I also have regular conversations with my broker, I can assure you, not once has B6 ever been a suggested worthwhile asset the airline section of my portfolio. I have retained AS only. So break out your reams of info & show us all, the back up for your assertion.


I said your claim was dumb. But now that you’re telling me you’re relying on the investor relations materials from AS and your STOCK BROKER to tell you about brand health and other brand metrics maybe it’s more than your claim that’s dumb.

Stock broker...hilarious. Does your stock broker get his salmon shipped to him on AS? Clearly that’s an important driver to determine brand health.
Last edited by catiii on Wed May 29, 2019 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
catiii
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 3:53 am

catiii wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
catiii wrote:


By this logic Continental, which was in a much better financial position than United ahead of their merger, should have been the surviving name.


Until you can pop some facts out, your assertions are just that. You are still spending time trying to win a losing arguement. B6 is trying to retain marketshare in BOS & JFK against DL. Do you really think one A-321neo flight to STN or LGW (if they are lucky) is going to make B6 a global entity?

They couldn't make LGB work, despite being the dominant carrier (no brand recognition). The article shows that LGB is not a hub & they are not protecting it any longer. B6 is dead on the west coast with the exception of their T-cons, which are likely East Coasters going West. Since you have all the facts, try checking the POS in S. California on B6 vs AS.


Again, by your rationale, CO should have been the surviving brand given it’s financial strength over UA, no?[/quote]

The fact that you think it’s one 321NEO shows how little you know. The more you try and debate, the more you show yourself to not know what you’re talking about. Did your stockbroker tell you it was a NEO? Lololol.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 4:08 am

westgate wrote:
And by the way, your exact words :

EA CO AS wrote:
EA sold itself to and became a wholly-owned subsidiary of Texas Air Corporation. There was no "spin off" at all.


That may have happened when EA initially came under the control of Texas Air, but it was abundantly clear in my original post that I was referring to their split from that corporation, and not the original acquisition.



Erm, no. Here are your words from your original post, emphasis mine:

westgate wrote:
Eastern was spun-off and sold (subsequently collapsing), whereas Texas International, People's Express, Frontier and New York Air were all rolled into Continental Airlines not long after, which effectively proves the point I was making


I really just want this thread to die already, but you are wrong. TAC acquired EA in 1986, before PE, FL, and NY became parts of CO in 1987, and well before the IAM strike in 1989, followed by Judge Lifland naming Marty Shugrue as the court-appointed trustee in 1990 at the request of the creditors, removing TAC from day-to-day control over the wholly-owned subsidiary of TAC. Your original post, referenced above, is not just chronologically inaccurate, but backwards - you're implying a cause and effect that didn't occur, and again, no "spin off" took place, as the EA estate was ultimately liquidated under Chapter 7 of the bankruptcy code.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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usxguy
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 4:26 am

CobaltScar wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Someone better tell Southwest they need to exit all of the Caribbean, everything east of the Mississippi, all of the Pacific Northwest, and everything north of the Oklahoma/Kansas border.

Northwest Airlines should have also been considered a failure and NEVER should have been in Detroit. Or Minneapolis. Or Memphis.

And lastly, at least from what I gather about this thread, it doesn't MATTER that Alaska's JD Power awards pitted Alaska against American/Delta and that Jetblue was pitted against Southwest, Spirit and Frontier - that Alaska is BAD, and JetBlue is amazing. We just need to tell all the Wall Street analysts they are *all* wrong.


The term "Southwest" is relative. A customer from anywhere can be form the southwest of their particular region. Alaska on the other hand is geo specific , like Siberia. And most people associate the term Alaska with Siberia and conjures images of remote cold wastelands. All of you are delusional if you think the marketing experts will let such a name remain once they find the filmiest of excuses to placate the traditionalists from Anchorage that insist on retaining that cold name in favor of cold hard cash.

And if you are going to brag about winning JD powers awards, then who you beat out matters. If JetBlue shared the same category as Alaska then Alaska would of been second place 11 times instead of having 11 wins. Its easy to get 1st place when your competition in customer service is United and American. Not so easy when that competition is Southwest. Who deserves more praise? The competitor that beats out Olympic champions or the competitor that beat out average joes?


Lort that was too easy, I honestly meant to troll the conversation, not you.

If Alaska merges with another airline, the controlling party will decide the name, not us.

And from a JD power perspective, that "airline associated with remote cold wastelands" beat out EVERY major US Carrier that's been around for 80+ years, who have spent probably billions in marketing.

B6 and AS are both good, quality carriers and hopefully they both will continue to be such. Be it independent or combined.
xx
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 4:35 am

usxguy wrote:
B6 and AS are both good, quality carriers and hopefully they both will continue to be such. Be it independent or combined.


Amen.

And on to the next topic...
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
SocalApproach
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 4:35 am

nine4nine wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:
I dont understand the constant argument on what airline names people think of depending on where they are in the US. For what its worth If you want to argue that nobody thinks "Alaska" in the east/Caribbean or nobody thinks "jetBlue" on the west coast I would argue "those people" dont care what airline they are flying at all and only want lowest price available and as long as Alaska/jetblue are competitive in that area then it doesnt matter. The only airline that has shown their name carries any weight is WN. Every other airline is on these third party websites (expedia/hotwire etc) so please just stop with the empty no data argument that people dont think Alaska in the east and vice versa with jetblue in the west. Im not saying that there is nobody that seeks out Alaska in the west or nobody seeks out Jetblue in the east. Im simply saying its not enough people that it actually matters. People would figure out what Alaska is real quick if the price is right out of SJU. This isnt like Whataburger opening a store in Oregon..... :roll:



Obviously you aren’t very in tune with business marketing. While price is a driving factor it’s not a deciding factor. The name is the recognition that people relate to. People buy Coca Cola and Pepsi because of the brand recognition not the price. If what you are saying is true then RC Cola, Vernors, Tab and Diet Rite (all lower priced than the majors) would be competitive in market share and brand recognition with Coca Cola and Pepsi. But they are not. When was the last time any of you bought those for the sake of price?

In this case both are very reasonable priced carriers with outstanding service. The difference in regards to the brand is huge. B6 has a national name recognition even though they are east coast heavy. AS has a strong name west of the Rockies but it’s name identifies them as a regional carrier. People are not going to put two and two together that you can fly Alaska Airlines from Boston to Cartagena. Nobody would ever think of going to alaskaair.com to book such a flight. The only way people would ever get booked on such would be through a 3rd party like Expedia etc...


Which is why I brought up the the "Whataburger" reference. We are not talking about soda here where a 12 pack is a few bucks cheaper. We are talking about airline travel where any carrier can be hundreds of dollars different in any fare between destinations. This is two completely different markets so this is not comparable to soda. People would definitely be going to alaskaair.com because AS would be the biggest airline in BOS. The random few people you think that wouldn't think Alaska obviously are not frequent travelers thus they would probably be going to southwest.com or a third party site which would put them right back on AS metal if AS had the lowest price from BOS-CTG.

With your logic F9/NK/AY business model wouldnt work. How do you think they are able to setup just about anywhere and fill up airplanes? Remember this isnt about AS randomly launching Boston to Cartagena. This is about a combined airline sporting the AS brand now that controls Boston at this point. And I am arguing both sides. If this merger were to ever happen and B6 was the surviving brand the same exact thing would happen in SEA. Everyone acts like in a merger the logos, and branding just flips overnight. By the time the merger is "complete" it wouldn't be as weird as you think to see AS is flying BOS-CTG or B6 is flying SEA-JNU
 
strfyr51
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 5:35 am

RWA380 wrote:
catiii wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Here is why AAG would be the surviving name in a merger, B6 has been fighting to keep up financially, AAG is well on it's way to a huge nest egg in cash from their VX acquisition. AS dividends are returning more now, than B6 is projecting into 20-21.

It's not an emotional remark, it's pure business facts. As EA CO AS stated, the people running AAG now, have been doing an excellent job for more than just 2 decades. They will be able to determine the value of keeping B6 a seperate entity vs merging it into AS.But again, this isn't going to happen, no need to berate people who don't agree with your feelings regarding B6, your arguement ends, when you can't be civil.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/05/ ... a-buy.aspx

By this logic Continental, which was in a much better financial position than United ahead of their merger, should have been the surviving name.


Until you can pop some facts out, your assertions are just that. You are still spending time trying to win a losing arguement. B6 is trying to retain marketshare in BOS & JFK against DL. Do you really think one A-321neo flight to STN or LGW (if they are lucky) is going to make B6 a global entity?
Merger
They couldn't make LGB work, despite being the dominant carrier (no brand recognition). The article shows that LGB is not a hub & they are not protecting it any longer. B6 is dead on the west coast with the exception of their T-cons, which are likely East Coasters going West. Since you have all the facts, try checking the POS in S. California on B6 vs A45%S.[/quote]
By this logic Continental, which was of Treacherya much better financial position than United ahead of their merger, should have been the surviving name.
How it seems wasn't how it was, In the UA/CO merger CO wound up on the short end 45% to 55% for United or the UAL BOD wasn't going for it.
UAL Inc. Is So Much More than just United Airlines. Hell! The subsidiaries have subsidiaries,, The Bankruptcy was a calculated risk that unfortunately cost us our pensions. Which we still might have had had not American and Continental made the gamble to make a case to deny United the ATSB loan in proposing we sell the Pacific Division. Instead? United Abrogated the Pensions and thus we lost ours which ended the need FOR the ATSB Loan in the first place. (which was a master stroke of treachery on it's face)
Glen Tilton then sought to merge the company so that He could split and go back to the Banking Business as he wasn't doing JACK to run the Airline Anyway. He was the one who Ordered the A350's. (which we Still aren't flying!) (and with the troubles at Rolls Royce? It was probably a good thing too!)
True, the Logic would dictate CO could have been the surviving carrier, BUT! UAL had Billions $$ in Tax Credits that CO couldn't have used had they been the surviving carrier. And? The UAL BOD played the CO BOD like a fiddle!! To the point that few if ANY CO Senior Management still works at United right Today! Most of the Management team is EX-Northwest and EX-American. And hey run United with a "Vengeance"! Especially after having been "Kicked to the Curb" during their OWN Mergers. So? Your Initial statement Was CORRECT! However? The game didn't go down that way.
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 6:33 am

catiii wrote:
catiii wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

By this logic Continental, which was in a much better financial position than United ahead of their merger, should have been the surviving name.


Until you can pop some facts out, your assertions are just that. You are still spending time trying to win a losing arguement. B6 is trying to retain marketshare in BOS & JFK against DL. Do you really think one A-321neo flight to STN or LGW (if they are lucky) is going to make B6 a global entity?

They couldn't make LGB work, despite being the dominant carrier (no brand recognition). The article shows that LGB is not a hub & they are not protecting it any longer. B6 is dead on the west coast with the exception of their T-cons, which are likely East Coasters going West. Since you have all the facts, try checking the POS in S. California on B6 vs AS.


Again, by your rationale, CO should have been the surviving brand given it’s financial strength over UA, no?


The fact that you think it’s one 321NEO shows how little you know. The more you try and debate, the more you show yourself to not know what you’re talking about. Did your stockbroker tell you it was a NEO? Lololol.[/quote]

I can assure you, your foolishness is showing, but if you insist, I never said it was one A-321neo, it's one route. It's amazing how long you are willing to put your foot in your mouth. LOL!
I've been in this industry a whole lot longer & have made more money investing in it, than you will hope to achieve & that is why I retired at 50. My money managers have enough knowlege on how to make money, I can assure you, B6 has never been discussed as a good opportunity. Once again, show some of your "binders" of proof you claim to have, or curtail your predjudiced & uninformed guesses.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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RWA380
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 6:36 am

catiii wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
catiii wrote:

Schoolyard name calling? Go show me where I called you a name.

I do have data. Reams and reams of it. I can tell you how JetBlue's brand health outperforms Alaska in the LA Basin, NorCal, TCON, BOS, NYC, INTL, etc, and its relative brand health in other markets. I can tell you how JetBlue outperforms Alaska on the most important rational and emotional drivers of market share. I can tell you how JetBlue outperforms Alaska on the 35+ metrics in the price, quality, reputation, and performance buckets used to determine brand strength and health. I can tell you how JetBlue holds a dominant brand position against Alaska for overall value perception. I can tell you how JetBlue holds a dominant brand position against Alaska for value for money, delivering a consistently superior CEX, quality and price gaps, etc. But I am not so dumb as to post such data on a site like this. Glad to talk offline though. Or, Google is your friend if you want a high level as it's been talked out at industry events.

Do you have any data? I mean beyond an anecdote that Alaska's superior international brand is predicated on someone in Japan opening a box of salmon up that has an Alaska sticker on it?


If you refer to someone as "dumb" that's schoolyard antics & a level I refuse to step to, I am an investor in AAG & I have the information provided to me, because of my investment, I also have regular conversations with my broker, I can assure you, not once has B6 ever been a suggested worthwhile asset the airline section of my portfolio. I have retained AS only. So break out your reams of info & show us all, the back up for your assertion.


I said your claim was dumb. But now that you’re telling me you’re relying on the investor relations materials from AS and your STOCK BROKER to tell you about brand health and other brand metrics maybe it’s more than your claim that’s dumb.

Stock broker...hilarious. Does your stock broker get his salmon shipped to him on AS? Clearly that’s an important driver to determine brand health.


Once again, show facts or stop showing off your lack of knowlege. The fact you have twisted almost anything I have given, is further my point that you are only a B6 fanboy who has his feelers hurt over the fact AS is doing better financially, has a larger & longer known brand image & is also the air ambassador to the 49th state.

In fact you've offered zero info on why you even "feel" the way you do. All you have done is to twist & bash the information I've given, this is not a discussion of facts, it's a juvinile response & all to present here. seriously grow up & act like an adult, offer up some info, contribute to the conversation, or quit repeating your old, tired & disproven assertions.

It's also obvious you don't invest, put your money where your mouth is & buy some B6 stock, lets compare at years end to see how much you made vs what I did, that's the best metric to measure by, profits, BTW, my broker did tell me that! LOL!
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
CobaltScar
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 1:36 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
Only eleven? Try twelve like B6.


I’ll bet you $100 that AS wins #12 by this time next week.


Where is my money?

B6 (and southwest, who tied it) scored MORE POINTS than Alaska, who came in 3rd. Very big gap in points between that #1 spot and Alaska's distant 3rd.

No. 1 (tie): Southwest: 817, down from 818

No. 1 (tie): JetBlue: 817, up from 812

No. 3: Alaska: 801, up from 775
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 1:41 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
Only eleven? Try twelve like B6.


I’ll bet you $100 that AS wins #12 by this time next week.


Where is my money?

B6 (and southwest, who tied it) scored MORE POINTS than Alaska, who came in 3rd. Very big gap in points between that #1 spot and Alaska's distant 3rd.

No. 1 (tie): Southwest: 817, down from 818

No. 1 (tie): JetBlue: 817, up from 812

No. 3: Alaska: 801, up from 775


Lol. So they didn’t just win their category a 12th straight time? So they didn’t show triple the improvement over B6? So you aren’t going to cough up the $100 bucks and take it like a man? So you think it all even matters to anyone other than employees and fanboys?

God bless us, every one.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
tphuang
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 1:45 pm

RWA380 wrote:
catiii wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

If you refer to someone as "dumb" that's schoolyard antics & a level I refuse to step to, I am an investor in AAG & I have the information provided to me, because of my investment, I also have regular conversations with my broker, I can assure you, not once has B6 ever been a suggested worthwhile asset the airline section of my portfolio. I have retained AS only. So break out your reams of info & show us all, the back up for your assertion.


I said your claim was dumb. But now that you’re telling me you’re relying on the investor relations materials from AS and your STOCK BROKER to tell you about brand health and other brand metrics maybe it’s more than your claim that’s dumb.

Stock broker...hilarious. Does your stock broker get his salmon shipped to him on AS? Clearly that’s an important driver to determine brand health.


Once again, show facts or stop showing off your lack of knowlege. The fact you have twisted almost anything I have given, is further my point that you are only a B6 fanboy who has his feelers hurt over the fact AS is doing better financially, has a larger & longer known brand image & is also the air ambassador to the 49th state.

In fact you've offered zero info on why you even "feel" the way you do. All you have done is to twist & bash the information I've given, this is not a discussion of facts, it's a juvinile response & all to present here. seriously grow up & act like an adult, offer up some info, contribute to the conversation, or quit repeating your old, tired & disproven assertions.

It's also obvious you don't invest, put your money where your mouth is & buy some B6 stock, lets compare at years end to see how much you made vs what I did, that's the best metric to measure by, profits, BTW, my broker did tell me that! LOL!

You are the one that kept repeating AS is more of a global brand, when neither airline are global brands. The entire statement is ridiculous. You are also the one that said AS is a more international airline, when that is factually wrong by every metric.

Seems like you are just upset that people don't feel the same way about AS that you do. Given ALK's performance vs rest of the market in the past couple of years, I wouldn't boast about them if I were you. Your broker probably should've told you to not invest in airline stocks.

RWA380 wrote:

Until you can pop some facts out, your assertions are just that. You are still spending time trying to win a losing arguement. B6 is trying to retain marketshare in BOS & JFK against DL. Do you really think one A-321neo flight to STN or LGW (if they are lucky) is going to make B6 a global entity?

They couldn't make LGB work, despite being the dominant carrier (no brand recognition). The article shows that LGB is not a hub & they are not protecting it any longer. B6 is dead on the west coast with the exception of their T-cons, which are likely East Coasters going West. Since you have all the facts, try checking the POS in S. California on B6 vs AS.


Except the argument was never about whether or not B6 is a global entity. You said AS was more internatinal airline than B6. That is factually false by every metric possible.

As for your second point, how does B6 have the highest yield on BOS-LAX or MIA/FLL-LAX without capturing some point of sale in LA area? The entire idea is laughable. West coast is not B6's focus. They can stick around and loose money in the intra-west coast market like every other airline or they can do what they've done now which is a reduced leisure schedule that breaks even.
 
hohd
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 1:49 pm

First there is the DOJ which under this admin (surprisingly) has been reluctant to approve large mergers, a simple robust code share and reciprocal frequent flyer agreement between AS and B6 would be sufficient and even that I am not sure of DOJ will approve on some of the hub to hub flights.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 3:26 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Where is my money?


AS won their 12th straight, as I said they would. Pay up.

CobaltScar wrote:
B6 (and southwest, who tied it) scored MORE POINTS than Alaska, who came in 3rd. Very big gap in points between that #1 spot and Alaska's distant 3rd.


First off, they’re in different categories. But then again you knew that. Second, the gap is just 16 points, the lowest it has ever been. And third, AS improved TWENTY SIX POINTS year over year. B6 went up 5.

Again, both are great airlines, but acting as though there’s a huge gulf between the two is intellectually dishonest, and you conveniently overlook that AS has won in their category 12 years in a row, whereas this is the first time B6 won their segment in several years.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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diverdave
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 3:48 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
B6 (and southwest, who tied it) scored MORE POINTS than Alaska, who came in 3rd. Very big gap in points between that #1 spot and Alaska's distant 3rd.


Your "very big gap" amounts to all of 2%. Chill out. :smile:
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 3:51 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Again, both are great airlines, but acting as though there’s a huge gulf between the two is intellectually dishonest, and you conveniently overlook that AS has won in their category 12 years in a row, whereas this is the first time B6 won their segment in several years.


I thought B6 tied?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
impilot
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 3:57 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Again, both are great airlines, but acting as though there’s a huge gulf between the two is intellectually dishonest, and you conveniently overlook that AS has won in their category 12 years in a row, whereas this is the first time B6 won their segment in several years.

Several years, or 1 year? I thought last year was the first year after their streak of 12 that they missed.

Not that it matters...I don’t put a lot of stock in that award anyway.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 4:25 pm

impilot wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Again, both are great airlines, but acting as though there’s a huge gulf between the two is intellectually dishonest, and you conveniently overlook that AS has won in their category 12 years in a row, whereas this is the first time B6 won their segment in several years.

Several years, or 1 year? I thought last year was the first year after their streak of 12 that they missed.

Not that it matters...I don’t put a lot of stock in that award anyway.


According to JD Power’s press release, this is WN’s third straight year in the top spot. Not sure if they had tied the year before last or not, but WN was alone in the top spot last year for sure.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
CobaltScar
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 5:17 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
Where is my money?


AS won their 12th straight, as I said they would. Pay up.

CobaltScar wrote:
B6 (and southwest, who tied it) scored MORE POINTS than Alaska, who came in 3rd. Very big gap in points between that #1 spot and Alaska's distant 3rd.


First off, they’re in different categories. But then again you knew that. Second, the gap is just 16 points, the lowest it has ever been. And third, AS improved TWENTY SIX POINTS year over year. B6 went up 5.

Again, both are great airlines, but acting as though there’s a huge gulf between the two is intellectually dishonest, and you conveniently overlook that AS has won in their category 12 years in a row, whereas this is the first time B6 won their segment in several years.



First off, the fact they are in different categories is bogus, artificial, and a ploy to spread the wealth and make sure everyone gets a trophy. This you know. How can AS be a traditional carrier but B6 somehow is a LCC still? fake news

Second, its easy to jump up a lot of points if you are coming up from the basement by the trash compactor. This is not a brag point, best keep it hush hush, especially when two other airlines have more points despite the big AS "jump" year over year.

Third, B6 has not won in several years? Try one year.

Lets not play games with artificial fences. B6 beat AS and I need my $$$.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 5:21 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
Where is my money?


AS won their 12th straight, as I said they would. Pay up.

CobaltScar wrote:
B6 (and southwest, who tied it) scored MORE POINTS than Alaska, who came in 3rd. Very big gap in points between that #1 spot and Alaska's distant 3rd.


First off, they’re in different categories. But then again you knew that. Second, the gap is just 16 points, the lowest it has ever been. And third, AS improved TWENTY SIX POINTS year over year. B6 went up 5.

Again, both are great airlines, but acting as though there’s a huge gulf between the two is intellectually dishonest, and you conveniently overlook that AS has won in their category 12 years in a row, whereas this is the first time B6 won their segment in several years.



First off, the fact they are in different categories is bogus, artificial, and a ploy to spread the wealth and make sure everyone gets a trophy. This you know. How can AS be a traditional carrier but B6 somehow is a LCC still? fake news

Second, its easy to jump up a lot of points if you are coming up from the basement by the trash compactor. This is not a brag point, best keep it hush hush, especially when two other airlines have more points despite the big AS "jump" year over year.

Third, B6 has not won in several years? Try one year.

Lets not play games with artificial fences. B6 beat AS and I need my $$$.


#Triggered.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Abeam79
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 5:31 pm

People who put stock in the credence of JD power as an actual metric is like people putting stock that the Catholic Church is the over reaching final word on climate science. If you reallly want to see a better scope of what is a better customer value, look at trip advisor to and the points guy, all of which JetBlue won top spot last few years. Southwest had several engine emergencies, one of which killed a passenger, the first in last a decade in the US by a US carrier, cancellation and delayed went way up, yet they still tied at the top spot with going down only several re points. It’s amazing what a briefcase loot can do when submitting with the review :roll:
Again, this’s thread has to go as one of the top useless threads.
 
n562wn
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Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 5:37 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

AS won their 12th straight, as I said they would. Pay up.



First off, they’re in different categories. But then again you knew that. Second, the gap is just 16 points, the lowest it has ever been. And third, AS improved TWENTY SIX POINTS year over year. B6 went up 5.

Again, both are great airlines, but acting as though there’s a huge gulf between the two is intellectually dishonest, and you conveniently overlook that AS has won in their category 12 years in a row, whereas this is the first time B6 won their segment in several years.



First off, the fact they are in different categories is bogus, artificial, and a ploy to spread the wealth and make sure everyone gets a trophy. This you know. How can AS be a traditional carrier but B6 somehow is a LCC still? fake news

Second, its easy to jump up a lot of points if you are coming up from the basement by the trash compactor. This is not a brag point, best keep it hush hush, especially when two other airlines have more points despite the big AS "jump" year over year.

Third, B6 has not won in several years? Try one year.

Lets not play games with artificial fences. B6 beat AS and I need my $$$.


#Triggered.



Haha. But you gotta admit, the guy/gal does have a point. Now back to my popcorn
Last edited by n562wn on Wed May 29, 2019 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
rj1385
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 5:39 pm

If it were to happen, I honestly think it would be time for a new name. Both would combine and fill some gaps in the networks, middle states. However the future would be branching out of the U.S. How about States Airlines.
 
MR27122
Posts: 133
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 5:49 pm

Read thread &....What a collective bunch of foolishness. Brilliantly moronic. Some sage points & 95% dopiness (check out my previous 2 posts to this thread)...and a lot of personally charged comments.....'collective bunch of fools & brilliant morons" are my first disparaging words.

What's in a name? A brand.

Comparing soda-pop brands to airlines is laughable, perhaps a jr. non tenured associate prof in eco @ a non accredited online school would allow such a thesis. ValuJet is an excellent brand name---let's jump aboard, it speaks to what everybody wants, the best "Value"---it's in the name & "Jet" = speed to your destination! What's that, you'll sell me some land in the everglades versus having anything to do w/ that Brand (ya macabre sarcasm).....but, but, but...we'll start up again with all new Boeing branded "MAX" airplanes...what could possibly go wrong, it's branding paradise.

FYI....a meaningless & highly disregarded pub named Forbes has the following re airline BRANDING (i.e. equity, value, recognition).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jennysouth ... 6a746940ee

American, Delta, United, EXHALE, Southwest.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 5:51 pm

n562wn wrote:
Haha. But you gotta admit, the guy/gal does have a point. No back to my popcorn


The "bet" thing was about AS getting another JD Power award, which they did, so not sure what he's rattling on about with that. As far as LCC vs Legacy, again I don't get his point? Alaska is essentially a legacy - FC, regional flying, been around for eons, etc. JetBlue is largely a one-class airline, no regional, less than 20 years old, etc. But hey, if he wants to argue that JetBlue is a legacy, fine. At this point, what difference does it make? tm

But - ultimately - it's all silliness. :-)

rj1385 wrote:
If it were to happen, I honestly think it would be time for a new name. Both would combine and fill some gaps in the networks, middle states. However the future would be branching out of the U.S. How about States Airlines.


I'm all for keeping it JetBlue or doing some play on it, like JetAmerica or BlueAmerica or whatever. Alaska could be spun off as an intra-state operation in Alaska to keep things going smoothly up there, so the name/brand could live on. That way, when the newly merged albatross collapses we'd still have Alaska Airlines in the air. :-)
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 6:25 pm

Ok I have been trying to avoid this thread cause it is a bit of an emotion filled train wreck with very little reliable data. Rubbernecking though is an undeniably human trait and until I sprout pointed Vulcan, ears I guess I am here too.

Has anyone considered the major airlines basically let JetBlue live, because they have no First Class Cabin, and as such are no real threat to the higher yielding business traveler.

Should and I repeat should AS+B6 result in BS

or should I say “more” BS.... DO YOU NOT really think which ever brand remains, JetBlue or Alaska, AA, DL, UA, and cough WN would not be like white on rice on “BS,” for going after the higher yielding premium passenger that are the majors bread and butter?

Are we already are seeing this somewhat now that B6 perpetuates with MINT?

Oh congratulation to first place Alaska and tied for first place JetBlue by the way in regards to JDP.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
impilot
Posts: 232
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 6:29 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Ok I have been trying to avoid this thread cause it is a bit of an emotion filled train wreck with very little reliable data. Rubbernecking though is an undeniably human trait and until I sprout pointed Vulcan, ears I guess I am here too.

Has anyone considered the major airlines basically let JetBlue live, because they have no First Class Cabin, and as such are no real threat to the higher yielding business traveler.

Should and I repeat should AS+B6 result in BS

or should I say “more” BS.... DO YOU NOT really think which ever brand remains, JetBlue or Alaska, AA, DL, UA, and cough WN would not be like white on rice on “BS,” for going after the higher yielding premium passenger that are the majors bread and butter?

Are we already are seeing this somewhat now that B6 perpetuates with MINT?

Oh congratulation to first place Alaska and tied for first place JetBlue by the way in regards to JDP.


Hard to read your post since it is, in parts, so incoherently written. And the majors have tried to kill off B6 for quite some time. They didn’t “let them live” as you suggest. The battle is ongoing in BOS, among other places.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 6:59 pm

impilot wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
Hard to read your post since it is, in parts, so incoherently written....


Okay, I will make it even more simple for you, with a simple copy and paste without wasting too much time on you.

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Frontier might be beneficial for JetBlue as it would give B6 a Western toe hold in Denver to compliment their Long Beach operations.


AS+B6=BS
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 7:11 pm

tphuang wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
catiii wrote:

I said your claim was dumb. But now that you’re telling me you’re relying on the investor relations materials from AS and your STOCK BROKER to tell you about brand health and other brand metrics maybe it’s more than your claim that’s dumb.

Stock broker...hilarious. Does your stock broker get his salmon shipped to him on AS? Clearly that’s an important driver to determine brand health.


Once again, show facts or stop showing off your lack of knowlege. The fact you have twisted almost anything I have given, is further my point that you are only a B6 fanboy who has his feelers hurt over the fact AS is doing better financially, has a larger & longer known brand image & is also the air ambassador to the 49th state.

In fact you've offered zero info on why you even "feel" the way you do. All you have done is to twist & bash the information I've given, this is not a discussion of facts, it's a juvinile response & all to present here. seriously grow up & act like an adult, offer up some info, contribute to the conversation, or quit repeating your old, tired & disproven assertions.

It's also obvious you don't invest, put your money where your mouth is & buy some B6 stock, lets compare at years end to see how much you made vs what I did, that's the best metric to measure by, profits, BTW, my broker did tell me that! LOL!

You are the one that kept repeating AS is more of a global brand, when neither airline are global brands. The entire statement is ridiculous. You are also the one that said AS is a more international airline, when that is factually wrong by every metric.

Seems like you are just upset that people don't feel the same way about AS that you do. Given ALK's performance vs rest of the market in the past couple of years, I wouldn't boast about them if I were you. Your broker probably should've told you to not invest in airline stocks.

RWA380 wrote:

Until you can pop some facts out, your assertions are just that. You are still spending time trying to win a losing arguement. B6 is trying to retain marketshare in BOS & JFK against DL. Do you really think one A-321neo flight to STN or LGW (if they are lucky) is going to make B6 a global entity?

They couldn't make LGB work, despite being the dominant carrier (no brand recognition). The article shows that LGB is not a hub & they are not protecting it any longer. B6 is dead on the west coast with the exception of their T-cons, which are likely East Coasters going West. Since you have all the facts, try checking the POS in S. California on B6 vs AS.


Except the argument was never about whether or not B6 is a global entity. You said AS was more internatinal airline than B6. That is factually false by every metric possible.

As for your second point, how does B6 have the highest yield on BOS-LAX or MIA/FLL-LAX without capturing some point of sale in LA area? The entire idea is laughable. West coast is not B6's focus. They can stick around and loose money in the intra-west coast market like every other airline or they can do what they've done now which is a reduced leisure schedule that breaks even.


I stated AS has FAR more global brand recognition than B6, please if you are going to try & argue something as pointless as this, get it right. Again you have twisted what I have said, to try & create a compelling arguement & that is very typical on this forum. I'm sure B6 gets some POS in LA, but go ahead & compare it to the POS for AAG.

What neither you or your fellow B6 fanboys (in this case, your dislike for AS), has said that I have, Both carriers are good, both have aspects that are good for their respective service areas. AS has been expanding with their acquisition & created a larger carrier & will continue on it's expansion next year, while B6 is trying to retain marketshare in BOS & JFK against DL, which is the only other carrier I would invest in.

BTW, since I bought my AS stock & added to it in 2009, I have a house on Kauai called dividend acres, guess where that cash came from? LOL!
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tphuang
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Wed May 29, 2019 7:50 pm

RWA380 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

Once again, show facts or stop showing off your lack of knowlege. The fact you have twisted almost anything I have given, is further my point that you are only a B6 fanboy who has his feelers hurt over the fact AS is doing better financially, has a larger & longer known brand image & is also the air ambassador to the 49th state.

In fact you've offered zero info on why you even "feel" the way you do. All you have done is to twist & bash the information I've given, this is not a discussion of facts, it's a juvinile response & all to present here. seriously grow up & act like an adult, offer up some info, contribute to the conversation, or quit repeating your old, tired & disproven assertions.

It's also obvious you don't invest, put your money where your mouth is & buy some B6 stock, lets compare at years end to see how much you made vs what I did, that's the best metric to measure by, profits, BTW, my broker did tell me that! LOL!

You are the one that kept repeating AS is more of a global brand, when neither airline are global brands. The entire statement is ridiculous. You are also the one that said AS is a more international airline, when that is factually wrong by every metric.

Seems like you are just upset that people don't feel the same way about AS that you do. Given ALK's performance vs rest of the market in the past couple of years, I wouldn't boast about them if I were you. Your broker probably should've told you to not invest in airline stocks.

RWA380 wrote:

Until you can pop some facts out, your assertions are just that. You are still spending time trying to win a losing arguement. B6 is trying to retain marketshare in BOS & JFK against DL. Do you really think one A-321neo flight to STN or LGW (if they are lucky) is going to make B6 a global entity?

They couldn't make LGB work, despite being the dominant carrier (no brand recognition). The article shows that LGB is not a hub & they are not protecting it any longer. B6 is dead on the west coast with the exception of their T-cons, which are likely East Coasters going West. Since you have all the facts, try checking the POS in S. California on B6 vs AS.


Except the argument was never about whether or not B6 is a global entity. You said AS was more internatinal airline than B6. That is factually false by every metric possible.

As for your second point, how does B6 have the highest yield on BOS-LAX or MIA/FLL-LAX without capturing some point of sale in LA area? The entire idea is laughable. West coast is not B6's focus. They can stick around and loose money in the intra-west coast market like every other airline or they can do what they've done now which is a reduced leisure schedule that breaks even.


I stated AS has FAR more global brand recognition than B6, please if you are going to try & argue something as pointless as this, get it right. Again you have twisted what I have said, to try & create a compelling arguement & that is very typical on this forum. I'm sure B6 gets some POS in LA, but go ahead & compare it to the POS for AAG.

What neither you or your fellow B6 fanboys (in this case, your dislike for AS), has said that I have, Both carriers are good, both have aspects that are good for their respective service areas. AS has been expanding with their acquisition & created a larger carrier & will continue on it's expansion next year, while B6 is trying to retain marketshare in BOS & JFK against DL, which is the only other carrier I would invest in.

BTW, since I bought my AS stock & added to it in 2009, I have a house on Kauai called dividend acres, guess where that cash came from? LOL!


Your exact words were
"Hate AS much? AS has a far greater International reach than B6. While they don't currently, they have served the Russian Far East, they have been serving both Canada & Mexico for decades, nothing B6 has done. Now B6 flies the Caribbean, Central & the Northern part of South America."
you talk about where they serve rather than global brand recognition. I don't see how I can read that and interpret you are referring to global brand recognition. In fact, multiple people have interpreted your statement as referring to international service and have corrected you on it.

And then you claim that they have this mysterious brand recognition in far east and 2 billion Asians know Alaska air. That is just laughable, since I can tell you as someone who has spent a long time in Asia, nobody knows about Alaska airlines out there. Very few Asians know where Alaska is. I can tell as someone who grew up in Eastern Canada, nobody knows Alaska air there either. Neither airlines have global recognition. That's just a fact. They are not global airlines.

For POS in LAX, there is no conclusive evidence either either that B6 or AS has stronger point of sale from publicly available data. They compete on so few routes out there. B6 has far higher yield than AS on JFK/BOS/FLL and has stuck around on MCO while AS has cut it out. That's all we know. Without B6 getting into intra-west coast LAX routes, we would not know how much/little pricing power they have. We however do have data from Q4 that shows B6 having much higher yield on LGB-SFO/LAS than AS does on LAX-SFO/LAS (albeit on fewer flights) and B6 has higher yield on LGB-SJC than AS regional on BUR-SJC on similar capacity level. That's all the data we have. None of which shows strong point of sale for AS in LA region.

As for the rest of your rant against "B6 fanboys", your concluding argument is that AS stock has allowed you to have a house in Kauai. I think if you read what you wrote just now in a month, you'd be embarrassed. Seriously. I've been embarrassed at what I've written here too when I got overly emotional.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5747
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: AS trying to get B6

Thu May 30, 2019 12:31 am

nine4nine wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Blueballs wrote:
You should be embarrassed you’ve been very juvenile over a merger that isn’t happening.
You’re seriously on an airline forum talking about your stock broker etc. you seem pathetic.


l stated many posts past, this was never going to happen, did you read that? No you did not, your fellow B6 fanboys have been unable to let it go & I am not letting the misinformation go. So as long as misinformation about myself continues you will continue to see my responses free of blue speach.

Obviously you have not paid much attention, but that is no surprise. I have been asked how I attribute my knowlege of AAG's financial, I said I was an investor. The member you are desperatly trying to defend brought up the term stock broker & my responses have been more adult than I have recieved from any of the B6 fanboys trying to protect their carrier, add yourself to that now.

I don't give a fig what you or the blue bullies have tried to manipulate here & a few of us have more than informed y'all. You should really only reply here, if you have something relevant to add, after that you're just showing us all, what you really are about & in this case, it's a bad look. Gool luck with that.



Well saying AS has a large global following is extremely laughable. They serve a small handful of tourist destinations in Mexico and Costa Rica and that’s it. I don’t think people in Far East Asia or the Middle East are frothing one bit and researching the alaskaair dream trip to Wala Wala, Wenatchee, or Yakima. Whoopdie Do. Who’s the fanboy?

And throwing your schlong around about what assets you have is pretty sad. I’m sure if it came to playing asset battleship many people here would sink yours.

AS is a great airline but the AS fan base is pretty much cultish with hands out to fill up the glass of koolaid. “More koolaid please! “


Amatuer hour on A.net I see, follow the thread & not react churlishly to one comment. I had zero desire to speak of my assets, but all your fellow fanboys insisted I reveal how I know more than you all combined & I stated I was an investor, to further my point I indicated I had done well being invested in AS for decades & if you think I am not proud of my acoimplishments in investing, you'd be foolish.

I never once stated I would win any asset war, I don't care if a person is poor or rich, as long as they can have a conversation without being insulting or resorting to juvinile tactics like twisting peoples words to fit an imagined narritive, Further, I never stated AS has a large global presence, I said it was biggers than B6's & anyone knowledgeable about airlines would be able to determine this, that means far more than dots on a map. I have been speaking worldwide brand recognition & each of the B6 fanboys that twists my words into something that was never said. It's neither an effective arguement & usually only endeers you only to your kind.

I am fully done commenting on this refuse, like I said long ago, the thought of this merge is laughable & should have ended pages ago, yet a few B6 fanboys have decided to misinform people, I am refuting the claim that B6 has a larger global presence than AS. I have offered multiple reasons why, yet not even one of you was able to offer a single reasoning as to why B6 does, just trying to bash what I said means nothing, other than you got nothing. at that point, the discussion becomes tiresome & I've nothing else to input for people who refuse to see the obvious.

Good luck B6, I think they are great & hope it's nobodys intent to corral you, stay independent for years to come.
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PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Thu May 30, 2019 2:46 am

If I could guess, AS will end up with WN one day. B6 will end up with UA or AA. I just don’t see them getting together. If they do, I think it’ll be a train wreck.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
catiii
Posts: 3647
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Thu May 30, 2019 7:51 pm

RWA380 wrote:
I am refuting the claim that B6 has a larger global presence than AS. I have offered multiple reasons why, yet not even one of you was able to offer a single reasoning as to why B6 does.


Incorrect. You told us that some Asians get their salmon with an Alaska airlines sticker on it, thus giving it a better international presence than B6 even though B6 flies to 8x the countries, and that you stock broker (clearly an expert in airline brand health) told you AS had better brand metrics then B6 after I pointed out all ACTUAL the brand metrics that B6 leads AS in. So to be clear, you offered reasons that weren't rooted in any real factual basis.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Thu May 30, 2019 7:56 pm

I hope we are done with airline mergers for the time being. We are already at a point where certain airlines have coercive market power over travelers in certain cities. We don't need further concentrations of market power.

But, assuming that hope is unrealistic (certainly correct under this administration), B6 needs to get its operational house in order before it will be an attractive merger partner for anyone. The only way B6 will merge with anyone until then is through a hostile takeover.

If WN ends up making serious inroads in Hawaii, an AS/HA merger (probably retaining two brands under common ownership) might start to look attractive to both parties.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 906
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Thu May 30, 2019 8:05 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I hope we are done with airline mergers for the time being. We are already at a point where certain airlines have coercive market power over travelers in certain cities. We don't need further concentrations of market power.

But, assuming that hope is unrealistic (certainly correct under this administration), B6 needs to get its operational house in order before it will be an attractive merger partner for anyone. The only way B6 will merge with anyone until then is through a hostile takeover.

If WN ends up making serious inroads in Hawaii, an AS/HA merger (probably retaining two brands under common ownership) might start to look attractive to both parties.


AAG
AS, HA+QX=

AAG
AS, HQ

(;
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 906
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Thu May 30, 2019 8:13 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I hope we are done with airline mergers for the time being. We are already at a point where certain airlines have coercive market power over travelers in certain cities. We don't need further concentrations of market power.

But, assuming that hope is unrealistic (certainly correct under this administration), B6 needs to get its operational house in order before it will be an attractive merger partner for anyone. The only way B6 will merge with anyone until then is through a hostile takeover.

If WN ends up making serious inroads in Hawaii, an AS/HA merger (probably retaining two brands under common ownership) might start to look attractive to both parties.


Or maybe some sort of a GOL - VARIG similararrangement for an in house brand!
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 906
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Thu May 30, 2019 8:14 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
I hope we are done with airline mergers for the time being. We are already at a point where certain airlines have coercive market power over travelers in certain cities. We don't need further concentrations of market power.

But, assuming that hope is unrealistic (certainly correct under this administration), B6 needs to get its operational house in order before it will be an attractive merger partner for anyone. The only way B6 will merge with anyone until then is through a hostile takeover.

If WN ends up making serious inroads in Hawaii, an AS/HA merger (probably retaining two brands under common ownership) might start to look attractive to both parties.


Or maybe some sort of a GOL - VARIG similar arrangement for an in house brand!
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Thu May 30, 2019 8:24 pm

seabosdca wrote:
If WN ends up making serious inroads in Hawaii, an AS/HA merger (probably retaining two brands under common ownership) might start to look attractive to both parties.


Some people mentioned in this thread that the Alaska contracts do not allow for two mainline airlines to be owned by AAG, so what you said can't happen. AS/HA would be (if the delusional people in this thread have their way) AS swallowing up HA and making it disappear by virtue of its fish hauling cash, like they did VX.

Because clearly AS has more global reach and brand recognition from flying 2 times a week to some outpost in Soviet Siberia in the 80's than HA does with their wide body flights into the major pacific rim hubs like Hong Kong, Tokyo and Sydney. :roll:

RWA380 wrote:
I am refuting the claim that B6 has a larger global presence than AS.


Please don't make us post pictures of network maps for AS/B6 here. Only the most fanatical of cult followers from the very inner circle of dead-enders with no other place to turn to would waste breath with the sentence quoted above.

Wait, you do realize B6 flys to most of Latin America north of the Horse Latitudes right? Also to Bermuda and soon Western Europe. If you thought it was just New York to FLL, then I can see why you maybe made that statement. We are here to help.

edit: actually when I reread a couple posts it all makes sense now. You are protecting your investment holdings in AAG. Now that I can understand. Carry on.
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1898
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Thu May 30, 2019 9:25 pm

I am going to sh*t my pants if we do see Brad & Robin sharing a podium this summer announcing a tie up.

But this thread reminds me of the old Boeing v Airbus threads from 20 years ago....
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