MIflyer12
Posts: 5225
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 12:42 pm

RWA380 wrote:
AS has a far greater International reach than B6. While they don't currently, they have served the Russian Far East, they have been serving both Canada & Mexico for decades, nothing B6 has done. Now B6 flies the Caribbean, Central & the Northern part of South America.


I think you'll struggle pretty mightily to argue that AS is 'more international' than B6. B6 is certainly ahead in international destination count, and both are limited to narrowbody medium-haul destinations. B6' hub locations put a lot more international destinations within reach (unless you think AS is going to have a vast international expansion out of LAX, in which case short the stock HARD).

Acquisitions are almost always about rationalizing use of assets. It's not clear to me that AS' self-declared 'premium leisure' model is the best way to serve NYC and BOS, and buying B6 just to dismantle it wouldn't be a good use of money. It's been argued here (over and over) that AS' purchase of VX had value as a blocking play on the West Coast. Maybe. But there's no value to that strategy out of NYC and BOS: DL, UA and AA are too big in the east even to notice.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 1993
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 12:52 pm

737maxfan wrote:
I think the single biggest mistake ASA has made on transcons is slow playing the rollout on the transcon aircraft on satellite wifi and the new F cabin...its a big mistake.


Satellite wifi is supposed to be completed fleet-wide by the end of 2020. It's a big project, requiring major downtime for an airframe for the install. Ones slated for getting the new interior first get the satellite install at the same time...so you'll see it initially on more Airbus than Boeing. I'm sure they'd like to go faster but you just can't pull that many aircraft from your schedule at the same time.
 
lowfareair
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 1:13 pm

RWA380 wrote:
Hate AS much? AS has a far greater International reach than B6. While they don't currently, they have served the Russian Far East, they have been serving both Canada & Mexico for decades, nothing B6 has done. Now B6 flies the Caribbean, Central & the Northern part of South America.


AS last served Russia in the Clinton administration, they fly to 15 international destinations in 3 countries compared to B6 with 33 destinations in over a dozen countries. I'm not entirely sure why you think Alaska "has a far greater International reach".

AS would be the aggressor in a pitch to obtain B6, they would lose the JetBlue name, integrate it all into a much larger Alsska & eskimos would be flying from Europe to Hawaii & Alaska to South America.


...Probably, but it could be an HP-US situation where Alaska buys B6 and uses the B6 name. It would likely depend on the amount of name recognition and perception of each airline.

In short if AS buys B6, AAG deals with Embraer on replacing all the current B6 E-190's in exchange for more E-175ER's. The older Airbuses that could go, would go ASAP. Again AAG will be cutting underperforming services. Depending on age & time left on the lease terms, AS may decide to poark old Airbus aircraft & only refurbish those they own or are still filled with life on their contract.


Speaking of contracts, I wonder how thrilled the pilots union would be to hear that their flying would be farmed out to regional carriers. I would expect that to go over like a lead balloon.

I could imagine more than a dozen cities would be chopped, but I'd also expect AAG to fill in some places with adds in LAX, FLL, BOS, JFK, SFO, PDX, SEA & ANC. When you overlap their route maps, it is incredibly complimentary route map. While, as others have stated, there are fewer destinations in the middle & that's true with many carriers.


With which large carriers? They not only have a decent amount of 'destinations in the middle, but they all have multiple mid-continent hubs. AA has ORD/DFW, UA has ORD/DEN/IAH, DL has MSP/DTW/SLC. WN has DEN/MDW/DAL/HOU/etc.

JFK is the closest thing to a geographic connecting hub, and that's an incredibly low bar to climb. Anyone not going all the way to a coast would require backtracking to make a connection in almost all instances.

To sum up: This is would be a dumb acquisition, I think a codesharing agreement to start would be MUCH more beneficial to see how well their passengers would play together and see if there is any potential complementary city-pairs.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 1:36 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
DwayneStorkman wrote:
I also have as many colleagues who think you guys suck.


My eleven friends here disagree with you.

Image


Only eleven? Try twelve like B6.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 1:56 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
DwayneStorkman wrote:
I also have as many colleagues who think you guys suck.


My eleven friends here disagree with you.

Image


Only eleven? Try twelve like B6.


This is all so mind-numbingly stupid. It’s almost embarrassing to watch.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 261
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 2:07 pm

Having a friend at one of these in Florida, I kind of chuckle at this post. While I am not saying a merger or acquisition will never happen among ANY airlines.... I just want to remind you all how SHOCKED on airliners we all were when AS chose VX!

Quotes like
“they will never merge. AS is all Boeing.”
“Virgin is so much more well known”
“Small Regional Airline Alaska is acquiring Richard Branson’s plush industry leading transcontinental Virgin America airlines, with bases in New York and San Francisco.... news at 11.”

On reflection now, it is apparent Alaska was a much bigger and more successful company than VX ever was. So when I hear AS and B6 joining... I think it is best to remind ourselves, that no on at VX or airliners.net saw this merger coming.

It is just as likely if JetBlue or Alaska were to acquire someone, it could easily be Allegiant, Spirit, SkyWest Holdings, Trans States Holdings, or Atlas Air Cargo... or someone equally as far off the radar as VX was to AS. At least in Alaska’s case anyway.

The other thing I did gleen from this catty thread is the sub fleet of aircraft performing for MINT “is not” an asset “but a level of service.” At least that is what I gained from one poster, which is kind of indicative how valueless this thread is economically. One moment MINT is the best economic thing since sliced cheese and the next it is not an asset with value that can be spun off.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 2:44 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Only eleven? Try twelve like B6.


I’ll bet you $100 that AS wins #12 by this time next week.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
williaminsd
Posts: 149
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 2:51 pm

Always amazed at the venom with which some people pursue these types of discussions. With the obvious exceptions for those who actually work at the respective airlines, most of us are merely passengers and any airline mergers/acquisitions have at best a peripheral impact upon our daily lives.

Given the nature of this group, it's only natural that some passions are stirred, but man do some of you seem to be highly vested in the fortunes of one airline or another. Hope it's worth it...

I typically fly 3-5/x month throughout the western United States with occasional forays to the East Coast: nothing beyond North America for years. Born/raised in California, San Diego is home airport. I say this to show no geographic allegiance to any specific airline as PSA disappeared about a thousand years ago now as a result of what was in my view a pretty botched acquisition.

I rotate primarily between five airlines, Alaska, Southwest, American, United and Delta. Grew up a Boeing man as my first flight as a boy was on a TWA 707 that, when combined with arriving at JFK in Eero Saarinen's breathtaking "Flight Center," made a lasting impression that has only slightly dissipated with age (One reason I had to laugh when my recent complimentary post re a newly refurbished Alaska A321 elicited responses that I must hate Boeing...).

Guess I'm pretty fortunate in that the vast majority of my flying experience has been positive, particularly when it comes to crews. Again, trying to illustrate no particular bias for or against any airline/aircraft/airport.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Alaska had a long-term plan of acquiring/merging with Jetblue (haven't flown B6 for years, but when I did they were always superb). Maybe "plan" is too strong a term, but at least some in management might acknowledge the option.

I absolutely believe part of the reason for the aggressive pursuit of VX was to keep from eventually being consumed by a combined VX/B6, with an eye toward at least the possibility of eventual acquisition of a then more-vulnerable B6. I think B6 management also considered this possibility. I could be way off of course, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it either way. And I think that given the stated goals of many in Alaska management, it makes some sense. Many of those goals/barriers have been "discussed" ad nauseam here, so no need to regurgitate them now, but I do see some synergies with a combined carrier.

As a relative late-comer to Alaska Airlines (I first flew them in 2016), the overwhelming experience has been one of excellence. Couple of bumps here and there, but that's to be expected in today's industry environment. Note that when I first began flying Alaska, I had been regularly flying Virgin for eight years, both coastal and transcontinental, and LOVED it. I was on the last scheduled flight from SFO-LAX and miss it.

But the product hadn't changed much in those eight years and the idea that Alaska dismantled some kind of industry leader with the acquisition is laughable.

I remain a frequent user of Alaska's intra-California service (and Southwest's... and United's). I have nothing but good things to say other than I would prefer more frequency. To that end, Alaska recently added mainline to SAN-SMF and I have greatly enjoyed the 739 on the evening flight. So far, loads on those flights have been a bit light (the earlier flight loads on my beloved E175 continue to be robust), but it took awhile for this service to get traction after introduction, so we'll see how the additional capacity plays out.

Alaska's management has made me a believer in both product and service. This doesn't mean other airlines suck. I fly these others a lot and am almost always delighted with the experience. It means though, that I have confidence in their performance and that Alaska's future is nothing but promising.

My next flight on Alaska is the 29th. Looking forward to it...
 
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enilria
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 3:59 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
enilria wrote:
Didn't say best, I said they now have the worst transcon premium product.


You most certainly did:

enilria wrote:
4) Entry into the lucrative Transcon market (they have gone from the best product to probably the worst product and continue cutting service)


Or are you saying you meant something else, somehow?

I did not say they had the best product at the time of the merger. That was your point. Where do I say that? Nice try, with the twisting, though.
EA CO AS wrote:
enilria wrote:
I'm going to use seats for DAL since they have done a lot of the cuts through downgauging.


And look at what they did; they took un and underperforming routes out of DAL to the east, where they're weak, into additional frequencies from the West Coast, building on an already strong franchise. That's what smart RM and planning departments do.

So they took failing, unprofitable capacity and cut it. I guess we agree? What I said is why not sell it to Delta rather than fritter it away?
EA CO AS wrote:
A transcon frequency was taken from LAX to fund an extra SEAJFK transcon, and another went from SFO to fund a SJCJFK flight. Maybe you'd like to check your total transcon data instead of cherry-picking LAX and SFO only in an attempt to bolster your flawed "they are backing away from what they acquired" argument?

As you know, this is about shrinking the VX network. I see you have red herring'd that by somehow bringing SEA when I clearly said AS had done an acceptable job of defending against DL. So again, I guess you are saying they are cutting the VX network and building the traditional AS network. We agree. They didn't need to buy VX for that. There are tons of JFK slots floating around at this point. Just ask AA for some.
 
trueblew
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 7:18 pm

RWA380 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
impilot wrote:
JetBlue did...


Exactly, and B6 was competing against the lovable Southwest all those years, while Alaska was in the ez cripple category against the likes of fight club UA and too big to fail so we can be messy AA.

Alaska will never have the national much less international recognition B6 has, despite being 5 times older. Like i've said before, no one wants to fly from cultured metropolises on a plane named Alaska with a picture of E.T. on the tail. They want style, sophistication, and a brand that lends itself to dreams of spendor, not icy wastelands.


Hate AS much? AS has a far greater International reach than B6. While they don't currently, they have served the Russian Far East, they have been serving both Canada & Mexico for decades, nothing B6 has done. Now B6 flies the Caribbean, Central & the Northern part of South America.

AS would be the aggressor in a pitch to obtain B6, they would lose the JetBlue name, integrate it all into a much larger Alsska & eskimos would be flying from Europe to Hawaii & Alaska to South America.

AS would do the same thing they did with VX, cut underperforming routes, adjust routes to accomodate the right sized aircraft, Boeings flying JFK-FLL, MCO or BOS-PDX/SEA. I think AS may go F/W/Y.losing Mint, except on the premium few routes that they need to compete on SFO/LAX-JFK/BOS or Hawaii.

It sure would make it easier to consider a mix fleet moving forward with an even mix of A&B. I know VX birds were almost all leased, I don't know if B6 leases or is buying their aircraft, or both.

In short if AS buys B6, AAG deals with Embraer on replacing all the current B6 E-190's in exchange for more E-175ER's. The older Airbuses that could go, would go ASAP. Again AAG will be cutting underperforming services. Depending on age & time left on the lease terms, AS may decide to poark old Airbus aircraft & only refurbish those they own or are still filled with life on their contract.

I could imagine more than a dozen cities would be chopped, but I'd also expect AAG to fill in some places with adds in LAX, FLL, BOS, JFK, SFO, PDX, SEA & ANC. When you overlap their route maps, it is incredibly complimentary route map. While, as others have stated, there are fewer destinations in the middle & that's true with many carriers.

AAG would need to connect a few dots, as they did with their VX acqusition & then integrate schedules at the hub cities for the most available connecting opportunities.Routes like PDX-FLL.


Wow, that was a hoot to read. AS greater international reach? 737s flying intra-east coast? Drop Mint? Deal with EMB on replacing 190s (Embraer would have a good laugh!), park Airbusses?

I guess all that would work... if the goal was to put the combined airline out of business.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5447
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 8:27 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
AS has a far greater International reach than B6. While they don't currently, they have served the Russian Far East, they have been serving both Canada & Mexico for decades, nothing B6 has done. Now B6 flies the Caribbean, Central & the Northern part of South America.


I think you'll struggle pretty mightily to argue that AS is 'more international' than B6. B6 is certainly ahead in international destination count, and both are limited to narrowbody medium-haul destinations. B6' hub locations put a lot more international destinations within reach (unless you think AS is going to have a vast international expansion out of LAX, in which case short the stock HARD).

Acquisitions are almost always about rationalizing use of assets. It's not clear to me that AS' self-declared 'premium leisure' model is the best way to serve NYC and BOS, and buying B6 just to dismantle it wouldn't be a good use of money. It's been argued here (over and over) that AS' purchase of VX had value as a blocking play on the West Coast. Maybe. But there's no value to that strategy out of NYC and BOS: DL, UA and AA are too big in the east even to notice.


I wasn't referring to their reach, I was referring to their International brand recognition. Yes, JetBlue flies to almost every dot in the Caribbean, but I feel a carrier with such a long history like AS, would likely be more heard of than a carrier that has been around a couple of decades. I agree that B6 takes lots of Americans on holiday to the Caribbean.

I feel as AS is serving several destinations in a rather populous country such as Mexico, in addition to the fact that their Far East services spread the brand name West, even if it was years ago. I'm not trying to challenge any of this & it's odd this is what people chose to focus on, when I hit so many talking points.

lowfareair wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

Hate AS much? AS has a far greater International reach than B6. While they don't currently, they have served the Russian Far East, they have been serving both Canada & Mexico for decades, nothing B6 has done. Now B6 flies the Caribbean, Central & the Northern part of South America.


AS last served Russia in the Clinton administration, they fly to 15 international destinations in 3 countries compared to B6 with 33 destinations in over a dozen countries. I'm not entirely sure why you think Alaska "has a far greater International reach".

AS would be the aggressor in a pitch to obtain B6, they would lose the JetBlue name, integrate it all into a much larger Alsska & eskimos would be flying from Europe to Hawaii & Alaska to South America.


...Probably, but it could be an HP-US situation where Alaska buys B6 and uses the B6 name. It would likely depend on the amount of name recognition and perception of each airline.

In short if AS buys B6, AAG deals with Embraer on replacing all the current B6 E-190's in exchange for more E-175ER's. The older Airbuses that could go, would go ASAP. Again AAG will be cutting underperforming services. Depending on age & time left on the lease terms, AS may decide to poark old Airbus aircraft & only refurbish those they own or are still filled with life on their contract.


Speaking of contracts, I wonder how thrilled the pilots union would be to hear that their flying would be farmed out to regional carriers. I would expect that to go over like a lead balloon.

I could imagine more than a dozen cities would be chopped, but I'd also expect AAG to fill in some places with adds in LAX, FLL, BOS, JFK, SFO, PDX, SEA & ANC. When you overlap their route maps, it is incredibly complimentary route map. While, as others have stated, there are fewer destinations in the middle & that's true with many carriers.


With which large carriers? They not only have a decent amount of 'destinations in the middle, but they all have multiple mid-continent hubs. AA has ORD/DFW, UA has ORD/DEN/IAH, DL has MSP/DTW/SLC. WN has DEN/MDW/DAL/HOU/etc.

JFK is the closest thing to a geographic connecting hub, and that's an incredibly low bar to climb. Anyone not going all the way to a coast would require backtracking to make a connection in almost all instances.

To sum up: This is would be a dumb acquisition, I think a codesharing agreement to start would be MUCH more beneficial to see how well their passengers would play together and see if there is any potential complementary city-pairs.


Honestly, if you had read my previous posts, I had already indicated this merge didn't have a snowballs chance. But I decided to offer up some reality to the fantasies. Planes WOULD go, the E-190's are already on their way out, why would AAG not try to simplify it's fleet?
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
tphuang
Posts: 2904
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 10:48 pm

RWA380 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
AS has a far greater International reach than B6. While they don't currently, they have served the Russian Far East, they have been serving both Canada & Mexico for decades, nothing B6 has done. Now B6 flies the Caribbean, Central & the Northern part of South America.


I think you'll struggle pretty mightily to argue that AS is 'more international' than B6. B6 is certainly ahead in international destination count, and both are limited to narrowbody medium-haul destinations. B6' hub locations put a lot more international destinations within reach (unless you think AS is going to have a vast international expansion out of LAX, in which case short the stock HARD).

Acquisitions are almost always about rationalizing use of assets. It's not clear to me that AS' self-declared 'premium leisure' model is the best way to serve NYC and BOS, and buying B6 just to dismantle it wouldn't be a good use of money. It's been argued here (over and over) that AS' purchase of VX had value as a blocking play on the West Coast. Maybe. But there's no value to that strategy out of NYC and BOS: DL, UA and AA are too big in the east even to notice.


I wasn't referring to their reach, I was referring to their International brand recognition. Yes, JetBlue flies to almost every dot in the Caribbean, but I feel a carrier with such a long history like AS, would likely be more heard of than a carrier that has been around a couple of decades. I agree that B6 takes lots of Americans on holiday to the Caribbean.

I feel as AS is serving several destinations in a rather populous country such as Mexico, in addition to the fact that their Far East services spread the brand name West, even if it was years ago. I'm not trying to challenge any of this & it's odd this is what people chose to focus on, when I hit so many talking points.

lowfareair wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

Hate AS much? AS has a far greater International reach than B6. While they don't currently, they have served the Russian Far East, they have been serving both Canada & Mexico for decades, nothing B6 has done. Now B6 flies the Caribbean, Central & the Northern part of South America.


AS last served Russia in the Clinton administration, they fly to 15 international destinations in 3 countries compared to B6 with 33 destinations in over a dozen countries. I'm not entirely sure why you think Alaska "has a far greater International reach".

AS would be the aggressor in a pitch to obtain B6, they would lose the JetBlue name, integrate it all into a much larger Alsska & eskimos would be flying from Europe to Hawaii & Alaska to South America.


...Probably, but it could be an HP-US situation where Alaska buys B6 and uses the B6 name. It would likely depend on the amount of name recognition and perception of each airline.

In short if AS buys B6, AAG deals with Embraer on replacing all the current B6 E-190's in exchange for more E-175ER's. The older Airbuses that could go, would go ASAP. Again AAG will be cutting underperforming services. Depending on age & time left on the lease terms, AS may decide to poark old Airbus aircraft & only refurbish those they own or are still filled with life on their contract.


Speaking of contracts, I wonder how thrilled the pilots union would be to hear that their flying would be farmed out to regional carriers. I would expect that to go over like a lead balloon.

I could imagine more than a dozen cities would be chopped, but I'd also expect AAG to fill in some places with adds in LAX, FLL, BOS, JFK, SFO, PDX, SEA & ANC. When you overlap their route maps, it is incredibly complimentary route map. While, as others have stated, there are fewer destinations in the middle & that's true with many carriers.


With which large carriers? They not only have a decent amount of 'destinations in the middle, but they all have multiple mid-continent hubs. AA has ORD/DFW, UA has ORD/DEN/IAH, DL has MSP/DTW/SLC. WN has DEN/MDW/DAL/HOU/etc.

JFK is the closest thing to a geographic connecting hub, and that's an incredibly low bar to climb. Anyone not going all the way to a coast would require backtracking to make a connection in almost all instances.

To sum up: This is would be a dumb acquisition, I think a codesharing agreement to start would be MUCH more beneficial to see how well their passengers would play together and see if there is any potential complementary city-pairs.


Honestly, if you had read my previous posts, I had already indicated this merge didn't have a snowballs chance. But I decided to offer up some reality to the fantasies. Planes WOULD go, the E-190's are already on their way out, why would AAG not try to simplify it's fleet?


JetBlue actually has a lot of capacity to Mexico also. It still has 6 flights a day to Mexico City plus all the Cancun flights. And it's flying to Europe in 2021. If flies to more south American nation's than Delta out of new York. It's quite a reach to say Alaska air is somehow a more international airline. There is no data supporting such a statement. JetBlue in fact is the largest carrier in Dominican republic. 30% of it's capacity is international and that number is growing. Can you say that for any country about Alaska air?

I think the entire thread is a waste. There really is no reason for these two airlines to merge. And if either were up for sale, one of the big 4 would be the winners. They do however have good case to working together more closely. As is going to have to find a new terminal at JFK. I think JetBlue's north terminal would be a good place for them to settle at.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 10:57 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think the entire thread is a waste. .


Agreed. Not because B6 or AS aren't worthy to talk about - they are - but it's all based on another baseless rumor that for whatever reason us lemmings just fall over the cliff for.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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EA CO AS
Posts: 15293
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: AS trying to get B6

Fri May 24, 2019 11:58 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think the entire thread is a waste. .


Agreed. Not because B6 or AS aren't worthy to talk about - they are - but it's all based on another baseless rumor that for whatever reason us lemmings just fall over the cliff for.


I think we can all agree on this. For what it's worth, I also concur that AS and B6 have a great future together, but I really think it's as comprehensive codeshare partners rather than one trying to acquire the other or even a merger of equals.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
durangomac
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:18 am

Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sat May 25, 2019 12:28 am

hiflyeras wrote:
737maxfan wrote:
I think the single biggest mistake ASA has made on transcons is slow playing the rollout on the transcon aircraft on satellite wifi and the new F cabin...its a big mistake.


Satellite wifi is supposed to be completed fleet-wide by the end of 2020. It's a big project, requiring major downtime for an airframe for the install. Ones slated for getting the new interior first get the satellite install at the same time...so you'll see it initially on more Airbus than Boeing. I'm sure they'd like to go faster but you just can't pull that many aircraft from your schedule at the same time.


The count on satellite wifi is as of today 28 Boeing, 10 Airbus. 1/3 of the 737-900ER fleet already has been converted, they are not waiting on the interior modifications for the Boeing fleet, they are waiting on the Airbus fleet though in most cases.
 
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NameOmitted
Posts: 650
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sat May 25, 2019 1:06 am

KlimaBXsst wrote:
I just want to remind you all how SHOCKED on airliners we all were when AS chose VX!


This is worth repeating. Alaska Air Group made no secret that it was debating between growing "organically" or a merger, and we had fun speculating, but I don't recall anyone bringing up VX. We talked of Horizon expanding (my money was in PennAir), we talked a little about Fronteer, but good money was on Sun Country (sort of, still could not really make the case). Ultimately, most of us thought it was bluster to stop people from discussing who would buy AS.

Look outside the box for their next step. For having a conservative product, they don't have particularly conventional long range planners.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sat May 25, 2019 9:07 pm

I'm not a AS hater or a B6 lover, I just get irritated when people think something like AS would absorb and assimilate the likes of B6. It just will NEVER happen. B6 is not tiny failing VX. B6 is a beloved brand (no one, not even AS has as many JD powers) with powerful hard assets. The BoD of AS themselves would throw their logos on a bonfire and all hail the arrival of the new Blue Overlords.

You don't, as some random street carnival, buy Disney and then announce you are retiring the Disney name and brand in favor of your random street carnival brand. Same deal with AS when it buys B6.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sat May 25, 2019 9:28 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
I'm not a AS hater or a B6 lover, I just get irritated when people think something like AS would absorb and assimilate the likes of B6. It just will NEVER happen. B6 is not tiny failing VX. B6 is a beloved brand (no one, not even AS has as many JD powers) with powerful hard assets. The BoD of AS themselves would throw their logos on a bonfire and all hail the arrival of the new Blue Overlords.

You don't, as some random street carnival, buy Disney and then announce you are retiring the Disney name and brand in favor of your random street carnival brand. Same deal with AS when it buys B6.


I am going to guess that you are from the east coast because very few people on the west coast have any idea who B6 is which is just like how very few people are familiar with AS on the eastern side of the country. It is a bit of a hyperbole to say that AS is a random street carnival brand.

I personally believe that Alaska would be the dominant brand in this theoretical merger but that is just my opinion.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 12:44 am

CobaltScar wrote:
I'm not a AS hater or a B6 lover, I just get irritated when people think something like AS would absorb and assimilate the likes of B6. It just will NEVER happen. B6 is not tiny failing VX. B6 is a beloved brand (no one, not even AS has as many JD powers) with powerful hard assets. The BoD of AS themselves would throw their logos on a bonfire and all hail the arrival of the new Blue Overlords.

You don't, as some random street carnival, buy Disney and then announce you are retiring the Disney name and brand in favor of your random street carnival brand. Same deal with AS when it buys B6.


Referring to Alaska as being like a street carnival band, or equating JetBlue with Disney, really just puts the frosting on your twisted-perspective cake.

Neither carrier is huge, both carriers have gotten numerous awards, and each deserves to be respected for what they’ve accomplished.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 12:54 am

737maxfan wrote:
I think the single biggest mistake ASA has made on transcons is slow playing the rollout on the transcon aircraft on satellite wifi and the new F cabin...its a big mistake.
The new cabin creates a very premium "enough" cabin for both business and leisure travelers transcon, combined with the very good customer service Alaska FA's deliver routinely.
I think many business and leisure travelers do not want or need to lie flat and sleep on a transcon or Hawaii flight since they will probably be working or watching movies in any case.
It seems pretty clear that the Alaska priority has been to conserve capital and paint the old VX planes before delivering what the business traveler really needs in 2019 .
As for the old VX F class..ugh..those seats were funky, worked poorly, and very hard to sit in on long flights, not comfortable at all. I cant imagine anyone who spent a lot of time in the old VX "state of the art" F class liking anything except the smaller cabin and hard barrier to coach. If ASA had to create a dedicated transcon fleet on key routes then they simply should until they get the new cabins and satellite wifi rolled out everywhere ..fwiw I have 1.5 million miles nearly on Alaska and do a lot of paid F and fly 10-12 transcons and Hawaii flights annually and increasing, and also have flown paid F regularly out of Seattle on United and AA when required (who oh why does ASA not fly direct to CLT ?) with some Delta sprinkled in so feel like in the mid term when ASA finally gets the new cabins and wifi they will do very well with their core customer base. But they really are behind where they should be on the 5-6.5 hour flights cabins and wifi.


ASA = Atlantic Southeast Airlines
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RWA380
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 1:05 am

SierraPacific wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
I'm not a AS hater or a B6 lover, I just get irritated when people think something like AS would absorb and assimilate the likes of B6. It just will NEVER happen. B6 is not tiny failing VX. B6 is a beloved brand (no one, not even AS has as many JD powers) with powerful hard assets. The BoD of AS themselves would throw their logos on a bonfire and all hail the arrival of the new Blue Overlords.

You don't, as some random street carnival, buy Disney and then announce you are retiring the Disney name and brand in favor of your random street carnival brand. Same deal with AS when it buys B6.


I am going to guess that you are from the east coast because very few people on the west coast have any idea who B6 is which is just like how very few people are familiar with AS on the eastern side of the country. It is a bit of a hyperbole to say that AS is a random street carnival brand.

I personally believe that Alaska would be the dominant brand in this theoretical merger but that is just my opinion.


AS has a much stronger ledger sheet & significant assets, that would ensure it's brand survival. CobaltScar is feeling much about B6 & that's cool, I love my AS & I do not hate B6, for they have done much in their decades of flights.

AS has been flying 4 times longer & have a very recognizable mascot. While B6 is big in the East & they fly to the Caribbean & Mexico, that means very little to folks up here in the PNW. A bit more to folks in certain key California cities ie ... LAX, LGB.

The fact remains, each is a national airline, but only from a few hubs, each is catering to their respective client base in their strongholds. Neither carrier should be discounted, IMHO they should remain independant & each can offer their unique brand of a flying experience.

VX was up for sale & AS wanted instant growth in a couple key West Coast cities & a solid presence at JFK. Now that AS has the JFK boardroom updated, it has become apparant how important the destination is to them, there is no need to buy, acquire or merge with B6 & B6 simply can't afford AS.

This non-sense shouldn't rile people up, clearly this isn't going down & is just fodder to elicit a response from each AS & B6 fanboy. I am too amazed, as others have commented, this has gone on far too long.
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NameOmitted
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 1:32 am

Hey, is there some sure cargo firm we can start merger rumors about? You know, where we have less personal malice involved?

As I mentioned earlier, is ALK pulls off another takeover, it'll likely be a target of opportunity, and the opportunities for passenger air service might be getting slim.
 
catiii
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 2:02 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

My eleven friends here disagree with you.

Image


Only eleven? Try twelve like B6.


This is all so mind-numbingly stupid. It’s almost embarrassing to watch.

How did the mods even let a “pilot rumor” thread stay open?
 
catiii
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 2:05 am

RWA380 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
AS has a far greater International reach than B6. While they don't currently, they have served the Russian Far East, they have been serving both Canada & Mexico for decades, nothing B6 has done. Now B6 flies the Caribbean, Central & the Northern part of South America.


I think you'll struggle pretty mightily to argue that AS is 'more international' than B6. B6 is certainly ahead in international destination count, and both are limited to narrowbody medium-haul destinations. B6' hub locations put a lot more international destinations within reach (unless you think AS is going to have a vast international expansion out of LAX, in which case short the stock HARD).

Acquisitions are almost always about rationalizing use of assets. It's not clear to me that AS' self-declared 'premium leisure' model is the best way to serve NYC and BOS, and buying B6 just to dismantle it wouldn't be a good use of money. It's been argued here (over and over) that AS' purchase of VX had value as a blocking play on the West Coast. Maybe. But there's no value to that strategy out of NYC and BOS: DL, UA and AA are too big in the east even to notice.


I wasn't referring to their reach, I was referring to their International brand recognition. Yes, JetBlue flies to almost every dot in the Caribbean, but I feel a carrier with such a long history like AS, would likely be more heard of than a carrier that has been around a couple of decades. I agree that B6 takes lots of Americans on holiday to the Caribbean.

I feel as AS is serving several destinations in a rather populous country such as Mexico, in addition to the fact that their Far East services spread the brand name West, even if it was years ago. I'm not trying to challenge any of this & it's odd this is what people chose to focus on, when I hit so many talking points.

lowfareair wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

Hate AS much? AS has a far greater International reach than B6. While they don't currently, they have served the Russian Far East, they have been serving both Canada & Mexico for decades, nothing B6 has done. Now B6 flies the Caribbean, Central & the Northern part of South America.


AS last served Russia in the Clinton administration, they fly to 15 international destinations in 3 countries compared to B6 with 33 destinations in over a dozen countries. I'm not entirely sure why you think Alaska "has a far greater International reach".

AS would be the aggressor in a pitch to obtain B6, they would lose the JetBlue name, integrate it all into a much larger Alsska & eskimos would be flying from Europe to Hawaii & Alaska to South America.


...Probably, but it could be an HP-US situation where Alaska buys B6 and uses the B6 name. It would likely depend on the amount of name recognition and perception of each airline.

In short if AS buys B6, AAG deals with Embraer on replacing all the current B6 E-190's in exchange for more E-175ER's. The older Airbuses that could go, would go ASAP. Again AAG will be cutting underperforming services. Depending on age & time left on the lease terms, AS may decide to poark old Airbus aircraft & only refurbish those they own or are still filled with life on their contract.


Speaking of contracts, I wonder how thrilled the pilots union would be to hear that their flying would be farmed out to regional carriers. I would expect that to go over like a lead balloon.

I could imagine more than a dozen cities would be chopped, but I'd also expect AAG to fill in some places with adds in LAX, FLL, BOS, JFK, SFO, PDX, SEA & ANC. When you overlap their route maps, it is incredibly complimentary route map. While, as others have stated, there are fewer destinations in the middle & that's true with many carriers.


With which large carriers? They not only have a decent amount of 'destinations in the middle, but they all have multiple mid-continent hubs. AA has ORD/DFW, UA has ORD/DEN/IAH, DL has MSP/DTW/SLC. WN has DEN/MDW/DAL/HOU/etc.

JFK is the closest thing to a geographic connecting hub, and that's an incredibly low bar to climb. Anyone not going all the way to a coast would require backtracking to make a connection in almost all instances.

To sum up: This is would be a dumb acquisition, I think a codesharing agreement to start would be MUCH more beneficial to see how well their passengers would play together and see if there is any potential complementary city-pairs.


Honestly, if you had read my previous posts, I had already indicated this merge didn't have a snowballs chance. But I decided to offer up some reality to the fantasies. Planes WOULD go, the E-190's are already on their way out, why would AAG not try to simplify it's fleet?

What you “feel” and actual, you know, data about B6’s international presence and brand recognition (or AS’ lack thereof) are two different things. It’s good that you feel certain things though. Means you’re in touch with your inner self.
 
catiii
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 2:10 am

NameOmitted wrote:
Hey, is there some sure cargo firm we can start merger rumors about? You know, where we have less personal malice involved?

As I mentioned earlier, is ALK pulls off another takeover, it'll likely be a target of opportunity, and the opportunities for passenger air service might be getting slim.


I heard a rumor from a UPS pilot that UPS is trying to three way merge with FDX and Kalitta.

Discuss.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 3:07 am

catiii wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
Hey, is there some sure cargo firm we can start merger rumors about? You know, where we have less personal malice involved?

As I mentioned earlier, is ALK pulls off another takeover, it'll likely be a target of opportunity, and the opportunities for passenger air service might be getting slim.


I heard a rumor from a UPS pilot that UPS is trying to three way merge with FDX and Kalitta.

Discuss.

Now we're talking. As I understand it, they are going to licence the Virgin trademark from SRB.
Last edited by NameOmitted on Sun May 26, 2019 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 3:09 am

catiii wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
Hey, is there some sure cargo firm we can start merger rumors about? You know, where we have less personal malice involved?

As I mentioned earlier, is ALK pulls off another takeover, it'll likely be a target of opportunity, and the opportunities for passenger air service might be getting slim.


I heard a rumor from a UPS pilot that UPS is trying to three way merge with FDX and Kalitta.

Discuss.


We’ll call it F-UP.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 3:13 am

AirAfreak wrote:
ASA = Atlantic Southeast Airlines


Actually, they were the ones misusing that. “ASA” had been Alaska’s three letter identifier for decades before Atlantic Southeast existed.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 3:15 am

CobaltScar wrote:
B6 is a beloved brand (no one, not even AS has as many JD powers)


Again, I’ll bet you $100 that AS earns their 12th straight JD Power award next week.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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AirAfreak
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 3:28 am

EA CO AS wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
ASA = Atlantic Southeast Airlines


Actually, they were the ones misusing that. “ASA” had been Alaska’s three letter identifier for decades before Atlantic Southeast existed.


Thank you for sharing that little piece of history. I am unfamiliar with much of the three letter airline identifiers; Atlantic Southeast Airlines comes to mind when I see, read, or hear, “ASA.”
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 3:36 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Why do I even bother reading threads like this when I know they'll degenerate into absurdity?

All the majors are in the dumps right now...look at their stock prices! AS still has a lack of visibility on transcons from California. That'll improve but will take time...meanwhile, right-size the schedule and expand where there is low-hanging fruit. Save cash (and they have plenty) for the next recession...in fact aren't airline stock prices considered a canary in the coal mine?


Now you know how I feel on Max related threads where false information is spread and terms like “Big Boo-Boo” are used.
 
khinstorff
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 3:42 am

While I have never had a customer service issue with them, as well as believe Alaska should be consistently lauded for said customer service, I think we take awards such as J.D. Power wayyyyy too serious. It’s a pay to play scheme.

https://m.sfgate.com/business/article/J ... 620609.php
 
strfyr51
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 4:09 am

If this was a REAL pilot Rumor? Then it might be referenced on www.airlinepilotcentral.com and? it's not for either company. So the chances this is legit? Highly Dubious!!
 
impilot
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 4:37 am

strfyr51 wrote:
If this was a REAL pilot Rumor? Then it might be referenced on http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com and? it's not for either company. So the chances this is legit? Highly Dubious!!

Well it was started by blueknows, aka bluedoesntknow.
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 6:15 am

catiii wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

I think you'll struggle pretty mightily to argue that AS is 'more international' than B6. B6 is certainly ahead in international destination count, and both are limited to narrowbody medium-haul destinations. B6' hub locations put a lot more international destinations within reach (unless you think AS is going to have a vast international expansion out of LAX, in which case short the stock HARD).

Acquisitions are almost always about rationalizing use of assets. It's not clear to me that AS' self-declared 'premium leisure' model is the best way to serve NYC and BOS, and buying B6 just to dismantle it wouldn't be a good use of money. It's been argued here (over and over) that AS' purchase of VX had value as a blocking play on the West Coast. Maybe. But there's no value to that strategy out of NYC and BOS: DL, UA and AA are too big in the east even to notice.


I wasn't referring to their reach, I was referring to their International brand recognition. Yes, JetBlue flies to almost every dot in the Caribbean, but I feel a carrier with such a long history like AS, would likely be more heard of than a carrier that has been around a couple of decades. I agree that B6 takes lots of Americans on holiday to the Caribbean.

I feel as AS is serving several destinations in a rather populous country such as Mexico, in addition to the fact that their Far East services spread the brand name West, even if it was years ago. I'm not trying to challenge any of this & it's odd this is what people chose to focus on, when I hit so many talking points.

lowfareair wrote:

AS last served Russia in the Clinton administration, they fly to 15 international destinations in 3 countries compared to B6 with 33 destinations in over a dozen countries. I'm not entirely sure why you think Alaska "has a far greater International reach".



...Probably, but it could be an HP-US situation where Alaska buys B6 and uses the B6 name. It would likely depend on the amount of name recognition and perception of each airline.



Speaking of contracts, I wonder how thrilled the pilots union would be to hear that their flying would be farmed out to regional carriers. I would expect that to go over like a lead balloon.



With which large carriers? They not only have a decent amount of 'destinations in the middle, but they all have multiple mid-continent hubs. AA has ORD/DFW, UA has ORD/DEN/IAH, DL has MSP/DTW/SLC. WN has DEN/MDW/DAL/HOU/etc.

JFK is the closest thing to a geographic connecting hub, and that's an incredibly low bar to climb. Anyone not going all the way to a coast would require backtracking to make a connection in almost all instances.

To sum up: This is would be a dumb acquisition, I think a codesharing agreement to start would be MUCH more beneficial to see how well their passengers would play together and see if there is any potential complementary city-pairs.


Honestly, if you had read my previous posts, I had already indicated this merge didn't have a snowballs chance. But I decided to offer up some reality to the fantasies. Planes WOULD go, the E-190's are already on their way out, why would AAG not try to simplify it's fleet?

What you “feel” and actual, you know, data about B6’s international presence and brand recognition (or AS’ lack thereof) are two different things. It’s good that you feel certain things though. Means you’re in touch with your inner self.


Yup, that & reality.
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speedbird52
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 6:21 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

My eleven friends here disagree with you.

Image


Only eleven? Try twelve like B6.


This is all so mind-numbingly stupid. It’s almost embarrassing to watch.

My mom gave my airline 15 stars. Come fly with PNW Airlines! Our fleet consists of 744s, 742s, A330-300s, two Concorde's, a bunch of 737-800s and God knows whatelse my eleven year old mind came up with. We are based in Seattle and have four daily flights to London, and a bunch to all the major airports in the US plus Canada
 
USAirKid
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 7:35 am

speedbird52 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

Only eleven? Try twelve like B6.


This is all so mind-numbingly stupid. It’s almost embarrassing to watch.

My mom gave my airline 15 stars. Come fly with PNW Airlines! Our fleet consists of 744s, 742s, A330-300s, two Concorde's, a bunch of 737-800s and God knows whatelse my eleven year old mind came up with. We are based in Seattle and have four daily flights to London, and a bunch to all the major airports in the US plus Canada


What I want to know is how you got Airbus to provide maintenance support for the Concordes.... Thats the real trick.
 
speedbird52
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 8:42 am

USAirKid wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

This is all so mind-numbingly stupid. It’s almost embarrassing to watch.

My mom gave my airline 15 stars. Come fly with PNW Airlines! Our fleet consists of 744s, 742s, A330-300s, two Concorde's, a bunch of 737-800s and God knows whatelse my eleven year old mind came up with. We are based in Seattle and have four daily flights to London, and a bunch to all the major airports in the US plus Canada


What I want to know is how you got Airbus to provide maintenance support for the Concordes.... Thats the real trick.

We have a partnership with Air Baltia who provide maintenance using information on the TU144
 
LHA320
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 9:29 am

Can anyone give me a small insight on the brand recognition of AS on the east coast? Is it enough to support a complete rebranding of B6 to AS?
I mean, marketing wise, (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm quite skeptical. As far as I know, B6 has build up a great reputation and it would be difficult to replace the brand with a rather unknown brand. I think that the general public does not think of an airline named "Alaska" when they want to fly from NY to Florida.
Here in Europe, Germanwings will disappear in favor of Eurowings for the exact reason...
AB6 - A319 - A320 - A321 - A333 - A388 - AT42 - 733 - 734 - 735 - 73H - 738 - 752 - 753 - 763 - 772 - DC10 - MD83
 
glideslope900
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 11:55 am

I heard rumours of United possibly buying B6.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 2:18 pm

Perhaps this rumor should be more of the likes Alaska Air Group trying to get B6 for QX.

After all if you look at assets :

• QX could use added capacity of E190s
• Alaska MINT a 6Q (B6+QX) Subfleet
• JetBlue brand more recognizable than QX
• Alaska (QX-6Q West) JetBlue (QX-6Q East)
• A220 (B6 order) to AS for BUS re-fleeting
• 6Q JetBlue becomes ASA’s ULCC brand
• 6Q Alaska Blue (Horizon) ASA’s regional
• AS has a bunch of ex VX Buses which could be used by B6 as Alaska Air Group regionalizes (6Q) with Boeing Embraer E2s, or MRJs, or even A220s as non Mint A321s are replaced and these transitions made.

Hey don’t shoot the messager! You guys on Airliners seem to want another industry merger so I am creating a messy roadmap scenario for you!
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 2:25 pm

AS+B6=BS

but

B6+QX=6Q
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
CaptCoolHand
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 3:28 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
AS+B6=BS

but

B6+QX=6Q


B6+QX= scope error
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 3:33 pm

Guess I missed JetBlue pilots have SCOPE in their Pilot Representative Group contracts.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 3:39 pm

LHA320 wrote:
Can anyone give me a small insight on the brand recognition of AS on the east coast? Is it enough to support a complete rebranding of B6 to AS?
I mean, marketing wise, (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm quite skeptical. As far as I know, B6 has build up a great reputation and it would be difficult to replace the brand with a rather unknown brand. I think that the general public does not think of an airline named "Alaska" when they want to fly from NY to Florida.
Here in Europe, Germanwings will disappear in favor of Eurowings for the exact reason...


They have no brand recognition outside the states of Alaska, Oregon, and Washington. B6, on the other hand, is well known in the LA basin area and increasingly out of SFO. Even before Alaska snatched up VX, all of the VX star flyers switched to the superior MINT product as a sort of final nail in that airlines coffin. Alaska bought a corpse and is furiously trying to unshackle itself from the old decaying VX route structure. But even if it does that successfully before the rot spreads, they are back to square one as a regional airline in the second lowest density region in the country, the pacific northwest.

Its swell to be a big fish in the small pond of the PNW, but that trout in a retention pond should not think they can swallow a Blue Marlin from the deep seas of the east coast. Stick to the minnows and be content you don't swim with sharks at JFK and other grand metropolises.

And you are right on track with your germanwings/eurowings example.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 3:49 pm

However in an acquisition by the parent company... JetBlue would be the surviving company subsidiary with Horizon so there would be no SCOPE or outsourced regional flying if it was just brought in house to (6Q) JetBlue.

So not really sure how you are getting SCOPE issues out of that.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 3:54 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
However in an acquisition by the parent company... JetBlue would be the surviving company subsidiary with Horizon so there would be no SCOPE or outsourced regional flying if it was just brought in house to (6Q) JetBlue.

So not really sure how you are getting SCOPE issues out of that.


So Horizon would disappear and AS would use B6 contract to operate flights between SEA and GEG? Thats fine, just make sure they pay minimum 5 hours per calendar day at the current B6 rates, no more than 4 legs a day, and don't forget the hotel standards requirements. Good luck with that.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 4:30 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
So Horizon would disappear and AS would use B6 contract to operate flights between SEA and GEG? Thats fine, just make sure they pay minimum 5 hours per calendar day at the current B6 rates, no more than 4 legs a day, and don't forget the hotel standards requirements. Good luck with that.


Well no ....
Horizon would not disappear actually. It would just be merged to form the new (6Q) JetBlue.

6Q (the new Horizon and JetBlue combintion) would still wear the Eskimo on its Ejet 190 tails to Spokane and instead of being branded Alaska operated by Horizon it would be branded Alaska operated by JetBlue. Apparently cause out west JetBlue does not mean anything.

Basically you would have:

Alaska MINT operated by JetBlue
(A321s)
Alaska (REGIONAL) operated by JetBlue
(Ejet 175 Ejet 190, and Q400s)

JetBlue
(A319s, A320s)
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
CaptCoolHand
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 4:42 pm

Again. None of this is possible due to. SCOPE.

KlimaBXsst wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
So Horizon would disappear and AS would use B6 contract to operate flights between SEA and GEG? Thats fine, just make sure they pay minimum 5 hours per calendar day at the current B6 rates, no more than 4 legs a day, and don't forget the hotel standards requirements. Good luck with that.


Well no ....
Horizon would not disappear actually. It would just be merged to form the new (6Q) JetBlue.

6Q (the new Horizon and JetBlue combintion) would still wear the Eskimo on its Ejet 190 tails to Spokane and instead of being branded Alaska operated by Horizon it would be branded Alaska operated by JetBlue. Apparently cause out west JetBlue does not mean anything.

Basically you would have:

Alaska MINT operated by JetBlue
(A321s)
Alaska (REGIONAL) operated by JetBlue
(Ejet 175 Ejet 190, and Q400s)

JetBlue
(A319s, A320s)
 
NYCVIE
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 5:57 pm

LHA320 wrote:
Can anyone give me a small insight on the brand recognition of AS on the east coast? Is it enough to support a complete rebranding of B6 to AS?
I mean, marketing wise, (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm quite skeptical. As far as I know, B6 has build up a great reputation and it would be difficult to replace the brand with a rather unknown brand. I think that the general public does not think of an airline named "Alaska" when they want to fly from NY to Florida.
Here in Europe, Germanwings will disappear in favor of Eurowings for the exact reason...


I definitely think the pro-B6 user is trolling, but I'd have to agree that AS has low brand-recognition on the East Coast. I'd argue that B6 has higher brand recognition in the West than AS in the East. And I'd agree with your point that it is a bit absurd to think of Alaska Airlines flying from JFK to SYR, for example. I personally think the B6 name would survive in a hypothetical merger.

RWA380 wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
I'm not a AS hater or a B6 lover, I just get irritated when people think something like AS would absorb and assimilate the likes of B6. It just will NEVER happen. B6 is not tiny failing VX. B6 is a beloved brand (no one, not even AS has as many JD powers) with powerful hard assets. The BoD of AS themselves would throw their logos on a bonfire and all hail the arrival of the new Blue Overlords.

You don't, as some random street carnival, buy Disney and then announce you are retiring the Disney name and brand in favor of your random street carnival brand. Same deal with AS when it buys B6.


I am going to guess that you are from the east coast because very few people on the west coast have any idea who B6 is which is just like how very few people are familiar with AS on the eastern side of the country. It is a bit of a hyperbole to say that AS is a random street carnival brand.

I personally believe that Alaska would be the dominant brand in this theoretical merger but that is just my opinion.


AS has a much stronger ledger sheet & significant assets, that would ensure it's brand survival. CobaltScar is feeling much about B6 & that's cool, I love my AS & I do not hate B6, for they have done much in their decades of flights.

AS has been flying 4 times longer & have a very recognizable mascot. While B6 is big in the East & they fly to the Caribbean & Mexico, that means very little to folks up here in the PNW. A bit more to folks in certain key California cities ie ... LAX, LGB.


I don't think it matters who's been flying longer. I'd argue that for international markets and for the East Coast, the B6 brand is stronger and I think it would also be an easier sell in the West to rebrand to "JetBlue" in the event of a merger than to rebrand to "Alaska" on the East Coast.

Lastly, to your point about international strength, I don't even think it's an argument that B6 blows AS out of the water there. There's nothing wrong with that at all but B6 alone is the reason that AA, who not too long ago was flying A300s from JFK to the Caribbean doesn't fly any of those routes anymore. The impact that B6 has had on a lot of the islands, particularly DR is massive. Again, that's not a slight on AS at all but lets just be real here.

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