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WeatherPilot
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 6:13 pm

I heard from a friend of a pilot who heard from the flight attendant he was hooking up with that B6 is interested in buying B6; oh, and that Pepsi sucks.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 6:14 pm

CaptCoolHand wrote:
Again. None of this is possible due to. SCOPE
I am so glad to hear this and that you are so certain of this! Having looked at the contract in more yawning detail, I could not find any reason QX’s fleet could not be integrated in the B6 Ejet fleet, except maybe for that a CPA might need to be redesignated a codeshare. As with everything, contracts can be amended. Especially if the contract had lapsed for more than a year after the announcement of a potential acquisition.

As I said before, I consider this whole thought of a AS-B6 merger BS. JetBlue’s brand may or may not be as influential as Alaska’s but I can say JetBlue’s is FAR more recognizable than Horizon’s be it East coast or West Coast.

So officially now airliner merger wet dreamers, we can now call the merger of JetBlue with anyone off!

IT’S OFFICIAL
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 6:41 pm

You know... brand recognition is such a weird commodity.

To be clear, AS B6 is not happening, but the idea of Alaska's brand recognition being the problem ignores the fact that Alaska is a freaking state. Alaska Airlines piggybacks on the branding money that comes out of the State tourism budget. My state puts a lot of effort into creating the idea of a worthwhile travel destination, and the airline effectively has exclusive rights to piggyback on all of that effort.

Look, Union Pacific railroad operates in 20 states that don't touch the Pacific. It benefits from that name when people think of shipping, as the name implies the ability to get your stuff across oceans.

So, brand name issues for Alaska? Simple. On the East Coast, is you see an Alaska aircraft, you know that it is at the very least a national airline as it can literally get you to the far side of the continent.

Alaska will continue to expand, without JetBlue, and the brand will not be a hindrance.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Sun May 26, 2019 8:55 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
Can anyone give me a small insight on the brand recognition of AS on the east coast? Is it enough to support a complete rebranding of B6 to AS?
I mean, marketing wise, (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm quite skeptical. As far as I know, B6 has build up a great reputation and it would be difficult to replace the brand with a rather unknown brand. I think that the general public does not think of an airline named "Alaska" when they want to fly from NY to Florida.
Here in Europe, Germanwings will disappear in favor of Eurowings for the exact reason...


I definitely think the pro-B6 user is trolling, but I'd have to agree that AS has low brand-recognition on the East Coast. I'd argue that B6 has higher brand recognition in the West than AS in the East. And I'd agree with your point that it is a bit absurd to think of Alaska Airlines flying from JFK to SYR, for example. I personally think the B6 name would survive in a hypothetical merger.

RWA380 wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:

I am going to guess that you are from the east coast because very few people on the west coast have any idea who B6 is which is just like how very few people are familiar with AS on the eastern side of the country. It is a bit of a hyperbole to say that AS is a random street carnival brand.

I personally believe that Alaska would be the dominant brand in this theoretical merger but that is just my opinion.


AS has a much stronger ledger sheet & significant assets, that would ensure it's brand survival. CobaltScar is feeling much about B6 & that's cool, I love my AS & I do not hate B6, for they have done much in their decades of flights.

AS has been flying 4 times longer & have a very recognizable mascot. While B6 is big in the East & they fly to the Caribbean & Mexico, that means very little to folks up here in the PNW. A bit more to folks in certain key California cities ie ... LAX, LGB.


I don't think it matters who's been flying longer. I'd argue that for international markets and for the East Coast, the B6 brand is stronger and I think it would also be an easier sell in the West to rebrand to "JetBlue" in the event of a merger than to rebrand to "Alaska" on the East Coast.

Lastly, to your point about international strength, I don't even think it's an argument that B6 blows AS out of the water there. There's nothing wrong with that at all but B6 alone is the reason that AA, who not too long ago was flying A300s from JFK to the Caribbean doesn't fly any of those routes anymore. The impact that B6 has had on a lot of the islands, particularly DR is massive. Again, that's not a slight on AS at all but lets just be real here.


Tiny dots in the water are each an individual country, I agree with this (each Island except the largest, Cuba, Hispanola & Puerto Rico & Jamaica are the huge exceptions) with rather small populations. Then B6 flies to several big cities in Central & South America & Mexico. By destination count B6 wins, but there is much more than that to determine brand reach.

AS Cargo each year ships tons of copper river salmon to the worldwide fish markets, each of those containers starts in ANC on an AS flight to SEA, by the time that product reaches it's destinations, the AS logo & name has been seen the world over. Not that this in itself is the basis for my claim, but to further it, they have been around for a very long time, again it's not the only factor.

I bet just about any Asian culture that travels to see the boreallis in Alaska knows of Alaska Airlines, what's that 2 - 5 billion people? Then lets not forget the cruising passengers who descend on SEA & ANC to take their one-way cruises, those people from far & wide are on AS for that leg, more often than not given their 16 daily flights. Honestly, neither carrier is a household name in most of the world.

I am not bashing B6, IMHO B6 has done more in the past couple of decades than most start ups ever get to do, a rare sucess in an all too familiar "failed" industry. My hat is off to every employee at B6 for a job well done. I am amazed at the similarities in the companies, like a mirror in many ways. B6 is no slouch of a carrier, while the A-320 isn't the best aircraft for BOS-SAN/LAX & there have been some issues, B6 still offers the best pitch & a service many love. B6 fanboys & AS fanboys are both passionate about their hometowns & the carriers that represent their hometowns.

The bottom line is, B6 is just not doing as well as AS financially, even with the VX acquisition AS is paying higher dividends to it's shareholders now, than B6 projects for 2020.
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catiii
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 1:51 am

[twoid][/twoid]
RWA380 wrote:
catiii wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

I wasn't referring to their reach, I was referring to their International brand recognition. Yes, JetBlue flies to almost every dot in the Caribbean, but I feel a carrier with such a long history like AS, would likely be more heard of than a carrier that has been around a couple of decades. I agree that B6 takes lots of Americans on holiday to the Caribbean.

I feel as AS is serving several destinations in a rather populous country such as Mexico, in addition to the fact that their Far East services spread the brand name West, even if it was years ago. I'm not trying to challenge any of this & it's odd this is what people chose to focus on, when I hit so many talking points.



Honestly, if you had read my previous posts, I had already indicated this merge didn't have a snowballs chance. But I decided to offer up some reality to the fantasies. Planes WOULD go, the E-190's are already on their way out, why would AAG not try to simplify it's fleet?

What you “feel” and actual, you know, data about B6’s international presence and brand recognition (or AS’ lack thereof) are two different things. It’s good that you feel certain things though. Means you’re in touch with your inner self.


Yup, that & reality.


No one with a solid footing in “reality” would state, as you did, that you “feel” that flying to Mexico currently, combined with a few weekly flights to the Soviet Union in the early 90s, makes Alaska more of an international brand than an airline that flies to 30+ cities in 20+ countries, and that’s excluding the European expansion.

Don’t double down on dumb here.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 2:08 am

CobaltScar wrote:
They have no brand recognition outside the states of Alaska, Oregon, and Washington.


Man, you’re spreading it on THICK today! Much more so than normal; is that perhaps a little whistling past the graveyard on your part?

You’re horribly mistaken about the brand recognition, of course, but then again your hatred of AS is well-documented on this site and by now everyone knows to take whatever you say with a grain of salt the size of a Rubik’s Cube.

In any event, while the AS brand isn’t as well-known nationally as AA, UA, DL, etc. it was strong enough to warrant retaining it over VX. And this was something outside brand consultants were brought in to assess over a long period before the final decision to retire the VX brand was made.

Having said that, AS senior leadership isn’t stupid, and they know the brand equity B6 would bring to the table. This is why that if AS ever found themselves acquiring them, B6 would likely remain a separate, wholly-owned subsidiary of Alaska Air Group, with both carriers operating as complementary sister companies to one another.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 2:44 am

catiii wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
RWA380 wrote:
catiii wrote:
What you “feel” and actual, you know, data about B6’s international presence and brand recognition (or AS’ lack thereof) are two different things. It’s good that you feel certain things though. Means you’re in touch with your inner self.


Yup, that & reality.


No one with a solid footing in “reality” would state, as you did, that you “feel” that flying to Mexico currently, combined with a few weekly flights to the Soviet Union in the early 90s, makes Alaska more of an international brand than an airline that flies to 30+ cities in 20+ countries, and that’s excluding the European expansion.

Don’t double down on dumb here.


You've been doing it, you have zero idea what the brand recognition is for either carrier & your insistance only makes your pleas more "footed in reality"? Please, you are a B6 fanboy who it's getting far too insulted over something that will never happen to begin with.

Your claims are as based in reality as most here. No insult intended, but you have zero data to back up your assertions or you would have pulled it out already. Feel the way you want, as you say I am, but there is no need to be rude & insulting by using schoolyard name calling.
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Bluewho
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 4:09 am

KlimaBXsst wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
Again. None of this is possible due to. SCOPE
I am so glad to hear this and that you are so certain of this! Having looked at the contract in more yawning detail, I could not find any reason QX’s fleet could not be integrated in the B6 Ejet fleet, except maybe for that a CPA might need to be redesignated a codeshare. As with everything, contracts can be amended. Especially if the contract had lapsed for more than a year after the announcement of a potential acquisition.

As I said before, I consider this whole thought of a AS-B6 merger BS. JetBlue’s brand may or may not be as influential as Alaska’s but I can say JetBlue’s is FAR more recognizable than Horizon’s be it East coast or West Coast.

So officially now airliner merger wet dreamers, we can now call the merger of JetBlue with anyone off!

IT’S OFFICIAL



The pilot contract does not lapse. Everything stays until it’s renegotiated. So no this idea isn’t happening.
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 5:15 am

Here is why AAG would be the surviving name in a merger, B6 has been fighting to keep up financially, AAG is well on it's way to a huge nest egg in cash from their VX acquisition. AS dividends are returning more now, than B6 is projecting into 20-21.

It's not an emotional remark, it's pure business facts. As EA CO AS stated, the people running AAG now, have been doing an excellent job for more than just 2 decades. They will be able to determine the value of keeping B6 a seperate entity vs merging it into AS.But again, this isn't going to happen, no need to berate people who don't agree with your feelings regarding B6, your arguement ends, when you can't be civil.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/05/ ... a-buy.aspx[/quote]
Last edited by RWA380 on Mon May 27, 2019 5:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
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airlinepeanuts
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 5:19 am

EA CO AS wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
They have no brand recognition outside the states of Alaska, Oregon, and Washington.


Man, you’re spreading it on THICK today! Much more so than normal; is that perhaps a little whistling past the graveyard on your part?

You’re horribly mistaken about the brand recognition, of course, but then again your hatred of AS is well-documented on this site and by now everyone knows to take whatever you say with a grain of salt the size of a Rubik’s Cube.

In any event, while the AS brand isn’t as well-known nationally as AA, UA, DL, etc. it was strong enough to warrant retaining it over VX. And this was something outside brand consultants were brought in to assess over a long period before the final decision to retire the VX brand was made.

Having said that, AS senior leadership isn’t stupid, and they know the brand equity B6 would bring to the table. This is why that if AS ever found themselves acquiring them, B6 would likely remain a separate, wholly-owned subsidiary of Alaska Air Group, with both carriers operating as complementary sister companies to one another.


Bullshit. Brad made it clear that running a mainline airline as a separate entity under AAG doesn’t work. I know you’re an “AS Kool-Aid” drinker but those of us at the GCC with a brain and some semblance of logic know that that wouldn’t happen.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 5:22 am

airlinepeanuts wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
They have no brand recognition outside the states of Alaska, Oregon, and Washington.


Man, you’re spreading it on THICK today! Much more so than normal; is that perhaps a little whistling past the graveyard on your part?

You’re horribly mistaken about the brand recognition, of course, but then again your hatred of AS is well-documented on this site and by now everyone knows to take whatever you say with a grain of salt the size of a Rubik’s Cube.

In any event, while the AS brand isn’t as well-known nationally as AA, UA, DL, etc. it was strong enough to warrant retaining it over VX. And this was something outside brand consultants were brought in to assess over a long period before the final decision to retire the VX brand was made.

Having said that, AS senior leadership isn’t stupid, and they know the brand equity B6 would bring to the table. This is why that if AS ever found themselves acquiring them, B6 would likely remain a separate, wholly-owned subsidiary of Alaska Air Group, with both carriers operating as complementary sister companies to one another.


Bullshit. Brad made it clear that running a mainline airline as a separate entity under AAG doesn’t work. I know you’re an “AS Kool-Aid” drinker but those of us at the GCC with a brain and some semblance of logic know that that wouldn’t happen.



What is the “GCC”?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 5:32 am

airlinepeanuts wrote:
Bullshit. Brad made it clear that running a mainline airline as a separate entity under AAG doesn’t work. I know you’re an “AS Kool-Aid” drinker but those of us at the GCC with a brain and some semblance of logic know that that wouldn’t happen.


Brad, Ben, Andrew, and Brandon agreed that wouldn’t work with a smaller separate entity, but then also stated the economies of scale could make it work with regard to carriers of similar size. Trust me, it has been discussed in the past, particularly regarding a certain other carrier, but further M&A activity is just not on their radar right now.
Last edited by EA CO AS on Mon May 27, 2019 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 5:34 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
What is the “GCC”?


It’s an AS building known as the Gold Coast Center where certain divisions have a presence, but it’s not the Corporate HQ.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
CaptCoolHand
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 9:46 pm

Bluewho wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
Again. None of this is possible due to. SCOPE
I am so glad to hear this and that you are so certain of this! Having looked at the contract in more yawning detail, I could not find any reason QX’s fleet could not be integrated in the B6 Ejet fleet, except maybe for that a CPA might need to be redesignated a codeshare. As with everything, contracts can be amended. Especially if the contract had lapsed for more than a year after the announcement of a potential acquisition.

As I said before, I consider this whole thought of a AS-B6 merger BS. JetBlue’s brand may or may not be as influential as Alaska’s but I can say JetBlue’s is FAR more recognizable than Horizon’s be it East coast or West Coast.

So officially now airliner merger wet dreamers, we can now call the merger of JetBlue with anyone off!

IT’S OFFICIAL



The pilot contract does not lapse. Everything stays until it’s renegotiated. So no this idea isn’t happening.


What he doesn’t understand is that scope isn’t just simply who flies your feed.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 10:29 pm

From a pure Business Standpoint? What ACTUALLY would be so damn Bad about a merger? Even if they left Both carriers in their Own Paint?? As Long as they locked Synergies? They couldn't be taken Over, They could build organically and Both would be stronger together than individually. Now what's really WRONG with that??
 
alfa164
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 10:36 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
B6 is a beloved brand (no one, not even AS has as many JD powers)

Again, I’ll bet you $100 that AS earns their 12th straight JD Power award next week.


... and JetBlue will probably win their 15th...

https://www.jetblue.com/about/ourcompany/awards.aspx/

.
AS has won 11 JD Power awards in its 87 years
+
B6 has won 14 JD Power awards in its 20 years

You do the math...
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
Ionosphere
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 10:44 pm

Hopefully if this happened they'd keep the superior B6 product
 
USAirKid
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 11:04 pm

alfa164 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
B6 is a beloved brand (no one, not even AS has as many JD powers)

Again, I’ll bet you $100 that AS earns their 12th straight JD Power award next week.


... and JetBlue will probably win their 15th...

https://www.jetblue.com/about/ourcompany/awards.aspx/

.
AS has won 11 JD Power awards in its 87 years
+
B6 has won 14 JD Power awards in its 20 years

You do the math...


Except, JD Power hasn't been around for 87 years. Its only been around for 51, and I don't think they've been evaluating airlines for all those years. (They started out focused on evaluating automobiles.)
 
alfa164
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 11:06 pm

USAirKid wrote:
Except, JD Power hasn't been around for 87 years. Its only been around for 51, and I don't think they've been evaluating airlines for all those years. (They started out focused on evaluating automobiles.)


EA CO AS wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
B6 is a beloved brand (no one, not even AS has as many JD powers)

Again, I’ll bet you $100 that AS earns their 12th straight JD Power award next week.


... and JetBlue will probably win their 15th...

https://www.jetblue.com/about/ourcompany/awards.aspx/

.
AS has won 11 JD Power awards in 51 years
+
B6 has won 14 JD Power awards in 20 years

You do the math...

.
How's that?
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 11:39 pm

alfa164 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
B6 is a beloved brand (no one, not even AS has as many JD powers)

Again, I’ll bet you $100 that AS earns their 12th straight JD Power award next week.


... and JetBlue will probably win their 15th...

https://www.jetblue.com/about/ourcompany/awards.aspx/

.
AS has won 11 JD Power awards in its 87 years
+
B6 has won 14 JD Power awards in its 20 years

You do the math...


Consecutive? B6 lost to WN last year...
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Abeam79
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Mon May 27, 2019 11:55 pm

RWA380 wrote:
Here is why AAG would be the surviving name in a merger, B6 has been fighting to keep up financially, AAG is well on it's way to a huge nest egg in cash from their VX acquisition. AS dividends are returning more now, than B6 is projecting into 20-21.

It's not an emotional remark, it's pure business facts. As EA CO AS stated, the people running AAG now, have been doing an excellent job for more than just 2 decades. They will be able to determine the value of keeping B6 a seperate entity vs merging it into AS.But again, this isn't going to happen, no need to berate people who don't agree with your feelings regarding B6, your arguement ends, when you can't be civil.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/05/ ... a-buy.aspx
[/quote]
Man just quit. You look at the JetBlue map and tell me how you think someone getting on a. Plane in bogota Columbia going to New York or Fort Lauderdale would think of “Alaska”, or Lima, or Guayaquil, Barbados, or even Richmond to Fort Lauderdale for crying out loud. Marketing is huge and look at the history of airline mergers that merged with an airline with a geographical name, aside from southwest, which after the merger with air Tran still isn’t a even decent player in most of the east coast and north east. Northwest, psa, Midwest, Allegheny, piedmont, air cal, etc, all GONE after they merged. Part a successful merge you need marketing synergies, yes it is definitely Important. JetBlue far far bigger outside the contiguous US. Like mentioned before , B6 has dozens of countries and counting when EU comes into play, vs AS meager 3 countries.
That article makes no relevance to your point. B6 has a stronger cash position since AS/VX merger. They barely made 3 million in Q1, vs56 million for B6. And he fool article states that B6 ebitda is better than delta’s. Which means that B6 is far more unleveraged than AS.
Plus his whole thread is pointless, why are we still discussing something that doesn’t have any water to support the pointless idea of something not happening?
 
tphuang
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 12:45 am

It's pretty amazing to me this guy continues to claim that somehow Alaska air is more of an international airline. Now the explanation is somehow all Asians know Alaska air? My relatives in Asia don't even know where Alaska is. Amazing stuff I read here on a.net

BTW, criticizing an airline management doesn't make you a hater. There is no shortage of criticism on JetBlue thread to the management. A lot of that by me. No need to keep sticking up for as management.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 12:58 am

strfyr51 wrote:
From a pure Business Standpoint? What ACTUALLY would be so damn Bad about a merger? Even if they left Both carriers in their Own Paint?? As Long as they locked Synergies? They couldn't be taken Over, They could build organically and Both would be stronger together than individually. Now what's really WRONG with that??


They aim at different markets.
They have different pilot contracts:
  • Alaska's contact won't let Alaska Air Group own and run a separate mainline.
  • JetBlue's contact world not allow Horizon
Aside from making them harder to take over, the only synergies really available to them could be had by an extensive code-share, which could be done without the expense of a merger.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 1:04 am

EA CO AS wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Again, I’ll bet you $100 that AS earns their 12th straight JD Power award next week.


... and JetBlue will probably win their 15th...

https://www.jetblue.com/about/ourcompany/awards.aspx/

.
AS has won 11 JD Power awards in its 87 years
+
B6 has won 14 JD Power awards in its 20 years

You do the math...


Consecutive? B6 lost to WN last year...


How did you get 'Consecutive' from that?

You said that in regards to AS & their twelfth award. He just said B6 will get their fifteenth, in relation to the fourteen they have over the past twenty years. No mention of Consecutive. . .





NameOmitted wrote:

They aim at different markets.
They have different pilot contracts:
  • Alaska's contact won't let Alaska Air Group own and run a separate mainline.
  • JetBlue's contact world not allow Horizon
Aside from making them harder to take over, the only synergies really available to them could be had by an extensive code-share, which could be done without the expense of a merger.



Yeah, just some more reasons why this is a really bad idea that's probably not actually happening. Seems like a lot of folks don't realize that B6 =/= VX.


This would be far more complicated, and I don't see AAG as the sort of company that just jumps into these things. Just the ownership changes alone would be fairly prohibitive as well.

And I do think your last point is literally the best thing that can happen. Sometimes the parts really are worth more. A deep codeshare relationship will extend a huge amount of tangible benefits to the existing customer base with minimal impact WRT competition in their respective markets. We won't see major line stations and focus cities closed out or dwindled to nothing, as is often the case in mergers.


edited to add reply. . .
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
"Yeah? That means there's no Oxygen for him Neither..."
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 1:23 am

decided to drop in on the most ridiculous thread ever here, and yeap, its completely off the rails
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
Bluewho
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 1:42 am

EA CO AS wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:
Bullshit. Brad made it clear that running a mainline airline as a separate entity under AAG doesn’t work. I know you’re an “AS Kool-Aid” drinker but those of us at the GCC with a brain and some semblance of logic know that that wouldn’t happen.


Brad, Ben, Andrew, and Brandon agreed that wouldn’t work with a smaller separate entity, but then also stated the economies of scale could make it work with regard to carriers of similar size. Trust me, it has been discussed in the past, particularly regarding a certain other carrier, but further M&A activity is just not on their radar right now.




Again B6 pilot contract and scope, but hey let’s keep saying we could run as separate companies under one big company. Ugh
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 1:46 am

If B6 is trying to get any other airline, it should be Silver. They're basically JetBlue Connection with their network in Florida (Plus BHB-BOS, not to mention their Seaborne network in the SJU focus city).
What's the deal with airplane food?

Frontier Airlines: Spirit of the west
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 2:05 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
If B6 is trying to get any other airline, it should be Silver. They're basically JetBlue Connection with their network in Florida (Plus BHB-BOS, not to mention their Seaborne network in the SJU focus city).


Not allowed with the Pilot contract.
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 2:46 am

AS merging with B6 is the new "When will NW/DL get rid of their DC-9s?" regenerating garbage topic.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 3:00 am

Hey, while on the subject of AS rumors, anything new on the OneWorld connect?

I mean, if we're going to speculate, if they join they could take up the contract with OO for some of the intra-California American Eagle flights, freeing AA to use their scope clause aircraft elsewhere.

This thread really needs to start thinking big!
 
MR27122
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 3:38 am

What I suspect occurred, ignoring the corporate propaganda....was that AS, in acquiring Virgin America was well aware of the issue w/ brand identity. The propisition AS represented to the consumer, & their core of legacy pax's, was very different than Virgin. AS, in branding the merged entity, assumed a conservative posture & retained the AS brand...but not @ no cost....

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi- ... story.html

For the penny my opinion is worth, they made the correct decision. Yet, I disagree w/ the belief that the AS brand has sufficient equity to ultimately be nationally recognized, it is way too geographically specific. SW doesn't, due to the equity of their brand identity, possess any geographic issues....if its name had been a hinderance, the far more nebulous "AirTan" would've been retained.

Look @ Allegheny--post de-reg it became USAir & it could be argued, it remained an East Coast specific brand until acquiring PSA (Piedmont is a name w/ very little brand identity & it's a sounds goofy) . Stephen Wolf took it to the next "level" by simply adding "ways" to end & repainting the whole fleet w/ USA flag-esque tail livery as it targeted Europe. The brand identity of USAirways was very strong---not "American" strong---but a lot stronger than America WEST.

The B6 brand is a strength, & it's a vague as heck "name"....I recall reading that the "working name" Neeleman had.....since it was an NYC/JFK "start-up" was "Taxi" & they were considering a yellow checkerboard livery...at least until a few brand experts arrived.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 4:20 am

Someone better tell Southwest they need to exit all of the Caribbean, everything east of the Mississippi, all of the Pacific Northwest, and everything north of the Oklahoma/Kansas border.

Northwest Airlines should have also been considered a failure and NEVER should have been in Detroit. Or Minneapolis. Or Memphis.

And lastly, at least from what I gather about this thread, it doesn't MATTER that Alaska's JD Power awards pitted Alaska against American/Delta and that Jetblue was pitted against Southwest, Spirit and Frontier - that Alaska is BAD, and JetBlue is amazing. We just need to tell all the Wall Street analysts they are *all* wrong.
xx
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 4:24 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
How did you get 'Consecutive' from that?

You said that in regards to AS & their twelfth award. He just said B6 will get their fifteenth, in relation to the fourteen they have over the past twenty years. No mention of Consecutive. . .


I was just saying that AS is about to find out if they won their 12 straight award, pointing out that B6's 14 aren't in a row.

Look, this thread is ridiculous. AS is a great airline. B6 is a great airline. They'd be great as partners, or competitors, ok? I'm not saying one is superior to the other, as they're both different. I have, and will continue, to offer counterpoints to anyone who says AS is somehow less of a carrier, though.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 8:13 am

Abeam79 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Here is why AAG would be the surviving name in a merger, B6 has been fighting to keep up financially, AAG is well on it's way to a huge nest egg in cash from their VX acquisition. AS dividends are returning more now, than B6 is projecting into 20-21.

It's not an emotional remark, it's pure business facts. As EA CO AS stated, the people running AAG now, have been doing an excellent job for more than just 2 decades. They will be able to determine the value of keeping B6 a seperate entity vs merging it into AS.But again, this isn't going to happen, no need to berate people who don't agree with your feelings regarding B6, your arguement ends, when you can't be civil.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/05/ ... a-buy.aspx

Man just quit. You look at the JetBlue map and tell me how you think someone getting on a. Plane in bogota Columbia going to New York or Fort Lauderdale would think of “Alaska”, or Lima, or Guayaquil, Barbados, or even Richmond to Fort Lauderdale for crying out loud. Marketing is huge and look at the history of airline mergers that merged with an airline with a geographical name, aside from southwest, which after the merger with air Tran still isn’t a even decent player in most of the east coast and north east. Northwest, psa, Midwest, Allegheny, piedmont, air cal, etc, all GONE after they merged. Part a successful merge you need marketing synergies, yes it is definitely Important. JetBlue far far bigger outside the contiguous US. Like mentioned before , B6 has dozens of countries and counting when EU comes into play, vs AS meager 3 countries.
That article makes no relevance to your point. B6 has a stronger cash position since AS/VX merger. They barely made 3 million in Q1, vs56 million for B6. And he fool article states that B6 ebitda is better than delta’s. Which means that B6 is far more unleveraged than AS.
Plus his whole thread is pointless, why are we still discussing something that doesn’t have any water to support the pointless idea of something not happening?[/quote]

And nobody is thinking Jet Blue out west, you stating B6 has more International dots & equating that into worldwide brand recognition, means you are far too young to even understand how brand recognition works & not just what "you think" from looking at a route map. I noticed you took the time to try & put me down first, before coming to the same conclusion I did, Man just quit. AS has paid off half of the debt associated with the VX merger already & has just re-painted the last Airbus, an A-321neo.

Many of the one off costs of the merger have been dumped already, plus AS is still paying their shareholders larger dividends NOW vs B6 projections for 20-21, that is not a well situated carrier. If you had real industry experience, you'd know why the Alaska brand is the preferred & more widely recognized brand worldwide.

Their cargo goes worldwide, so do their partner carriers & Alaska is synonomous with the 49th State of the USA, AS is tied in with their tourism board & a huge land mass, that any person, who ever looked at a globe, from anywhere on this planet for 5 minutes, would be able to pick out over & over. So again, please explain how "Alaska" is not well known? If your arguement is "look at their route map" Man just quit.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 1:23 pm

usxguy wrote:
Someone better tell Southwest they need to exit all of the Caribbean, everything east of the Mississippi, all of the Pacific Northwest, and everything north of the Oklahoma/Kansas border.

Northwest Airlines should have also been considered a failure and NEVER should have been in Detroit. Or Minneapolis. Or Memphis.

And lastly, at least from what I gather about this thread, it doesn't MATTER that Alaska's JD Power awards pitted Alaska against American/Delta and that Jetblue was pitted against Southwest, Spirit and Frontier - that Alaska is BAD, and JetBlue is amazing. We just need to tell all the Wall Street analysts they are *all* wrong.


The term "Southwest" is relative. A customer from anywhere can be form the southwest of their particular region. Alaska on the other hand is geo specific , like Siberia. And most people associate the term Alaska with Siberia and conjures images of remote cold wastelands. All of you are delusional if you think the marketing experts will let such a name remain once they find the filmiest of excuses to placate the traditionalists from Anchorage that insist on retaining that cold name in favor of cold hard cash.

And if you are going to brag about winning JD powers awards, then who you beat out matters. If JetBlue shared the same category as Alaska then Alaska would of been second place 11 times instead of having 11 wins. Its easy to get 1st place when your competition in customer service is United and American. Not so easy when that competition is Southwest. Who deserves more praise? The competitor that beats out Olympic champions or the competitor that beat out average joes?
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 2:11 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Someone better tell Southwest they need to exit all of the Caribbean, everything east of the Mississippi, all of the Pacific Northwest, and everything north of the Oklahoma/Kansas border.

Northwest Airlines should have also been considered a failure and NEVER should have been in Detroit. Or Minneapolis. Or Memphis.

And lastly, at least from what I gather about this thread, it doesn't MATTER that Alaska's JD Power awards pitted Alaska against American/Delta and that Jetblue was pitted against Southwest, Spirit and Frontier - that Alaska is BAD, and JetBlue is amazing. We just need to tell all the Wall Street analysts they are *all* wrong.


The term "Southwest" is relative. A customer from anywhere can be form the southwest of their particular region. Alaska on the other hand is geo specific , like Siberia. And most people associate the term Alaska with Siberia and conjures images of remote cold wastelands. All of you are delusional if you think the marketing experts will let such a name remain once they find the filmiest of excuses to placate the traditionalists from Anchorage that insist on retaining that cold name in favor of cold hard cash.

And if you are going to brag about winning JD powers awards, then who you beat out matters. If JetBlue shared the same category as Alaska then Alaska would of been second place 11 times instead of having 11 wins. Its easy to get 1st place when your competition in customer service is United and American. Not so easy when that competition is Southwest. Who deserves more praise? The competitor that beats out Olympic champions or the competitor that beat out average joes?


This thread reminds me of two parents comparing their kid’s trophies, as if anyone else really cared. Arguing over whose kid has the cooler name. How many countries their kids have been to. Who has the nicer car. The cuter girlfriend.

In the end, who cares? The list of airlines that have come and gone is massive. Carriers much more special and storied than AS and B6 have been lost. Frankly, it’s hard to imagine eithercarrier remaining independent in 10 years, and it’s very likely that they won’t be on the same team when it’s over.

Can we just enjoy what we’ve got while we’ve got it? Can we please just have nice things without arguing over it?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Etheereal
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 2:25 pm

But i was told by a bunch of UA fans that it was just a matter of time before UA bought B6 and would get JFK alongside it :stirthepot:
JetBuddy wrote:
"737 slides off the runway" is the new "Florida man"..

:lol:
 
catiii
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 3:20 pm

RWA380 wrote:
catiii wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
RWA380 wrote:

Yup, that & reality.


No one with a solid footing in “reality” would state, as you did, that you “feel” that flying to Mexico currently, combined with a few weekly flights to the Soviet Union in the early 90s, makes Alaska more of an international brand than an airline that flies to 30+ cities in 20+ countries, and that’s excluding the European expansion.

Don’t double down on dumb here.


You've been doing it, you have zero idea what the brand recognition is for either carrier & your insistance only makes your pleas more "footed in reality"? Please, you are a B6 fanboy who it's getting far too insulted over something that will never happen to begin with.

Your claims are as based in reality as most here. No insult intended, but you have zero data to back up your assertions or you would have pulled it out already. Feel the way you want, as you say I am, but there is no need to be rude & insulting by using schoolyard name calling.


Schoolyard name calling? Go show me where I called you a name.

I do have data. Reams and reams of it. I can tell you how JetBlue's brand health outperforms Alaska in the LA Basin, NorCal, TCON, BOS, NYC, INTL, etc, and its relative brand health in other markets. I can tell you how JetBlue outperforms Alaska on the most important rational and emotional drivers of market share. I can tell you how JetBlue outperforms Alaska on the 35+ metrics in the price, quality, reputation, and performance buckets used to determine brand strength and health. I can tell you how JetBlue holds a dominant brand position against Alaska for overall value perception. I can tell you how JetBlue holds a dominant brand position against Alaska for value for money, delivering a consistently superior CEX, quality and price gaps, etc. But I am not so dumb as to post such data on a site like this. Glad to talk offline though. Or, Google is your friend if you want a high level as it's been talked out at industry events.

Do you have any data? I mean beyond an anecdote that Alaska's superior international brand is predicated on someone in Japan opening a box of salmon up that has an Alaska sticker on it?
 
westgate
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 4:36 pm

EA CO AS wrote:

Having said that, AS senior leadership isn’t stupid, and they know the brand equity B6 would bring to the table. This is why that if AS ever found themselves acquiring them, B6 would likely remain a separate, wholly-owned subsidiary of Alaska Air Group, with both carriers operating as complementary sister companies to one another.


But when has a situation like this ever existed in the USA. Europe definitely, with Air France/KLM, Lufthansa/Swiss/Austrian/Brussels and British Airway/Iberia/Aer Lingus, but never in the States. It was initially uncertain as to what would happen with VX when AS merged with them anyway, but soon enough it was announced the Alaska branding and identity would prevail and Virgin would dissapear. Perhaps Midwest Express was also supposed to stick around after its purchase by Republic, but then that was folded into Frontier eventually anyway.

The only major example of two US airlines operating very closely together and keeping their own identities was the Northwest/Continental tie up, which even involved them having some kind of 'golden share' in each other. But that was far from any kind of merger, but even if they had gone down that road, one of those brands most certainly would have dissapeared in favour of the other.
 
westgate
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Although I somewhat agree with the numerous posters who believe it would be odd for an airline called 'Alaska' to be flying from NYC to Florida, how is it not already odd that an airline called 'Alaska' currently flies between Florida and California ?

The vast majority of AS services are in the 48 contiguous states and don't go anywhere near the actual state of Alaska.

So just as long as they fly within or to and from the western half of the 48 contiguous states, the name Alaska is OK ? But not if they fly within the eastern half of the 48 contiguous states or to and from there to the Carribbean/Europe ?
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 5:06 pm

westgate wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

Having said that, AS senior leadership isn’t stupid, and they know the brand equity B6 would bring to the table. This is why that if AS ever found themselves acquiring them, B6 would likely remain a separate, wholly-owned subsidiary of Alaska Air Group, with both carriers operating as complementary sister companies to one another.


But when has a situation like this ever existed in the USA. Europe definitely, with Air France/KLM, Lufthansa/Swiss/Austrian/Brussels and British Airway/Iberia/Aer Lingus, but never in the States. It was initially uncertain as to what would happen with VX when AS merged with them anyway, but soon enough it was announced the Alaska branding and identity would prevail and Virgin would dissapear. Perhaps Midwest Express was also supposed to stick around after its purchase by Republic, but then that was folded into Frontier eventually anyway.

The only major example of two US airlines operating very closely together and keeping their own identities was the Northwest/Continental tie up, which even involved them having some kind of 'golden share' in each other. But that was far from any kind of merger, but even if they had gone down that road, one of those brands most certainly would have dissapeared in favour of the other.



Texas Air Corp had several airlines at one time, I believe. EA, CO, New York Air.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
westgate
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 6:32 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Texas Air Corp had several airlines at one time, I believe. EA, CO, New York Air.


But that was all for a relatively short period of time during the post-degulation shake-up of the US airline industry. Eastern was spun-off and sold (subsequently collapsing), whereas Texas International, People's Express, Frontier and New York Air were all rolled into Continental Airlines not long after, which effectively proves the point I was making, that such scenarios of sister airlines operating under their own brands but being owned by the same entity rarely last long in the US market.

This is very different to Europe, whereas you may hear rumours of an imminent split between AF and KL, but certainly no suggestion after all these years that the KL brand would ever dissapear in favour of AF.

If any kind of tie up between AS and B6 ever does occur, you certainly may hear that they initially intend to keep them as separate brands, but I doubt that would last for more than a few years at most, with one brand eventually prevailing over the other.
 
SocalApproach
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 7:11 pm

I dont understand the constant argument on what airline names people think of depending on where they are in the US. For what its worth If you want to argue that nobody thinks "Alaska" in the east/Caribbean or nobody thinks "jetBlue" on the west coast I would argue "those people" dont care what airline they are flying at all and only want lowest price available and as long as Alaska/jetblue are competitive in that area then it doesnt matter. The only airline that has shown their name carries any weight is WN. Every other airline is on these third party websites (expedia/hotwire etc) so please just stop with the empty no data argument that people dont think Alaska in the east and vice versa with jetblue in the west. Im not saying that there is nobody that seeks out Alaska in the west or nobody seeks out Jetblue in the east. Im simply saying its not enough people that it actually matters. People would figure out what Alaska is real quick if the price is right out of SJU. This isnt like Whataburger opening a store in Oregon..... :roll:
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 7:50 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
[The term "Southwest" is relative. A customer from anywhere can be form the southwest of their particular region.


Oh come on, seriously? Even you had to roll your eyes as you typed this.

The fact is that WN's name, which at one point was considered a hindrance to an eventual national presence, became well-known as a brand equating to low fares and didn't stop them from growing in the slightest. If your service and reputation for it precede you, a regional-sounding name is not something that prevents growth.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 7:51 pm

westgate wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Texas Air Corp had several airlines at one time, I believe. EA, CO, New York Air.


But that was all for a relatively short period of time during the post-degulation shake-up of the US airline industry. Eastern was spun-off and sold (subsequently collapsing), whereas Texas International, People's Express, Frontier and New York Air were all rolled into Continental Airlines not long after, which effectively proves the point I was making


Except you're wrong; EA sold itself to and became a wholly-owned subsidiary of Texas Air Corporation. There was no "spin off" at all.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
catiii
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 8:10 pm

RWA380 wrote:
Here is why AAG would be the surviving name in a merger, B6 has been fighting to keep up financially, AAG is well on it's way to a huge nest egg in cash from their VX acquisition. AS dividends are returning more now, than B6 is projecting into 20-21.

It's not an emotional remark, it's pure business facts. As EA CO AS stated, the people running AAG now, have been doing an excellent job for more than just 2 decades. They will be able to determine the value of keeping B6 a seperate entity vs merging it into AS.But again, this isn't going to happen, no need to berate people who don't agree with your feelings regarding B6, your arguement ends, when you can't be civil.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/05/ ... a-buy.aspx
[/quote]

By this logic Continental, which was in a much better financial position than United ahead of their merger, should have been the surviving name.
 
QXAS
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 8:14 pm

The fact this thread is still alive baffles me. Contracts prevent what would make the most sense if the two carriers are merged. That would be one corporation managing both airlines as separate entities with close code share relations. Similar to what’s happening in Europe.
Until those contracts are renegotiated a merger should be off the table. Otherwise you wind up alienating half the customer base of the combined company. Both have valuable brands. They’re just valuable in different locations.
I think this rumor holds about as much water as the rumor I read on this site a few years ago that AS was interested in the terrible teen 787s.
I am NOT an employee of any airline or manufacturer. I speak for myself, not on the behalf of any company.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 8:39 pm

I think JetBlue and Alaska people can now rest assured they will NOT only NOT be merging with ALASKA because off SCOPE, but they will also NOT be merging with HAWAIIAN. The reason being, AS and HA brands are too valuable as stand alone entities.

So for JetBlue... it looks like their only choices left are Spirit, Frontier, or Allegiant. The good thing for JetBlue is these airline alll operate the Airbus.

Frontier might be beneficial for JetBlue as it would give B6 a Western toe hold in Denver to compliment their Long Beach operations.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
MR27122
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Re: Rumor: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 9:05 pm

Just an opinion...airline branding circa 2019, to the layperson = the lowest possible fare that populates a laptop (etc) screen. Spirit? Allegiant? Euphoric! :spin:

I can think of 2 genius Brand-Masters...1) Herb Keller built up such strong brand equity that a geographic name became nationally associated w/ low fares & apex customer service---what Herb laid the foundation for the brand representing, he could've named it "White Star Line" (historical sarcasm intended!) 2) Richard Branson, the connotation of "Virgin" & how the evolution of the brand basically "clouded" over the connotation/insinuation or the "word". I mean who would've thunk naming an empire that morphed into airlines after a type of Olive-Oil would've worked (sarcasm intended)!

Again, my personal opinion is worth a penny---but I am an EVP of Marketing (so add a cup of coffee to the value of the penny for my wisdom!). Alaska is a 75 year old name rooted in the origins of the airlines operational base @ the time of naming. Unfortunately, it's not a nationally valuable---or viable---brand. The word "Alaska" refers to a specific State (yes, obvious) & that specific State conjures up "extremely remote" & detached from the lower 48. However, the name "Alaska" is the fabric of the culture, the employees identity, & 75 years of storied history....& that's a huge problem that literally prohibits any name change. Mngmt would need a heaping helping of magic..or fear...to induce employees to embrace a new name

In terms of branding.....one man's branding Vision "Allegis is a diversified travel services company" -Dick Ferris is another man's branding for a Gobal Pandemic "It sounds like the next world-class disease"

(NOTE: Above is the first organic response for keywords "Allegis United" https://namedropping.wordpress.com/2010 ... -syndrome/ )
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS trying to get B6

Tue May 28, 2019 9:13 pm

catiii wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
catiii wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]

No one with a solid footing in “reality” would state, as you did, that you “feel” that flying to Mexico currently, combined with a few weekly flights to the Soviet Union in the early 90s, makes Alaska more of an international brand than an airline that flies to 30+ cities in 20+ countries, and that’s excluding the European expansion.

Don’t double down on dumb here.


You've been doing it, you have zero idea what the brand recognition is for either carrier & your insistance only makes your pleas more "footed in reality"? Please, you are a B6 fanboy who it's getting far too insulted over something that will never happen to begin with.

Your claims are as based in reality as most here. No insult intended, but you have zero data to back up your assertions or you would have pulled it out already. Feel the way you want, as you say I am, but there is no need to be rude & insulting by using schoolyard name calling.


Schoolyard name calling? Go show me where I called you a name.

I do have data. Reams and reams of it. I can tell you how JetBlue's brand health outperforms Alaska in the LA Basin, NorCal, TCON, BOS, NYC, INTL, etc, and its relative brand health in other markets. I can tell you how JetBlue outperforms Alaska on the most important rational and emotional drivers of market share. I can tell you how JetBlue outperforms Alaska on the 35+ metrics in the price, quality, reputation, and performance buckets used to determine brand strength and health. I can tell you how JetBlue holds a dominant brand position against Alaska for overall value perception. I can tell you how JetBlue holds a dominant brand position against Alaska for value for money, delivering a consistently superior CEX, quality and price gaps, etc. But I am not so dumb as to post such data on a site like this. Glad to talk offline though. Or, Google is your friend if you want a high level as it's been talked out at industry events.

Do you have any data? I mean beyond an anecdote that Alaska's superior international brand is predicated on someone in Japan opening a box of salmon up that has an Alaska sticker on it?


If you refer to someone as "dumb" that's schoolyard antics & a level I refuse to step to, I am an investor in AAG & I have the information provided to me, because of my investment, I also have regular conversations with my broker, I can assure you, not once has B6 ever been a suggested worthwhile asset the airline section of my portfolio. I have retained AS only. So break out your reams of info & show us all, the back up for your assertion.
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