MIflyer12
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 12:04 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Alaska could free up so much space by routing the ANC based connecting pax through Portland.


What fraction of AS traffic at SEA is to Alaska? Is it even thirty-five flights a day, averaged across the year? Mouse nuts. Those passengers will be happy going to an airport with less O&D and weaker connection options, too. Brilliant.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 1:26 pm

Is there any data on pax using SEA from Olympia/Tacoma? I see some sense here in putting an airport south/west of SEA. If not Olympia, I don't know if McChord AFB would allow airline traffic. Would give pax on north and south sides an alternative.
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 1:38 pm

2035 and later, assuming we haven't cooked ourselves with bombs etc, fairly quiet STOL hybrid planes efficiently going 200-500 miles, and decent mass transit to and between airports and nearby towns may free up space and capacity at SeaTac for mainline flights.

Autonomous vehicles is still a wild card, but such could come to freeways earlier than surface streets. Trips 100-300 miles in a vehicle with 35-40+ inch pitch and restrooms could and will compete with planes - as will as provide transportation to airports.
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USAirKid
Posts: 473
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 2:34 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
Could we possibly get an LCC terminal built near i5 at BFI for Southwest, Spirit, or any other O/D traffic carriers? There appear to be some garages next to the AA 727 on Google Earth that could be demolished.


I’m not 100% sure what you’re looking at, but I’m pretty sure that those garages are the Museum of Flight. It’d be almost a non starter unless another good location could be found for the museum with an hefty payment to move all their exhibits.
 
erentz
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:08 am

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 4:15 pm

Passedv1 wrote:
One last option... why don't we give up on the current SEA configuration and build a new terminal down the middle where 16C and T presently are... Once the terminal is built you could destroy the existing terminal along International BLVD and build a new runway. You would then have two approach streams in all WX and one dedicated departure runway...


Totally agree. This is the most logical reconfiguration of SEA, and it's been absolutely frustrating to watch them rebuild the central runway, and now spend billions on terminal expansions in their current locations. They should have had a long term plan to shift to this very configuration.

If the plan for a new "Greater Seattle Airport" included the option of fully replacing SEA (e.g. like Denver). Then I actually would support investigating three new locations for an airport that would involve purchasing all the existing neighborhoods, but which would still be in the Tacoma to Seattle corridor. Thus they could still pick up spurs or diversions from the main heavy railway corridor, and thus their catchment could effectively span the whole Olympia to Seattle corridor once that railway is upgraded and electrified (and Portland and beyond once it extends that far south, Mt Vernon and beyond once it expands that far north). That is, it would be a natural stop along the spine of future high speed rail right up and down the cascades.

These locations are drawn very crudely on the map below. Yellow is the existing railway corridors, dashed yellow loops or spurs off those that could tunnel under the respective plateaus to serve stops in the heart of the airport terminals. These areas are actually quite sparse still in terms of the number of homes affected, but of course it wouldn't be without opposition. SEA itself would be demolished and reclaimed for housing/etc.

Image
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 4:30 pm

About 30 years ago a Republican state legislature proposed a mile wide transportation corridor from Battleground in the SW to Marysville. He anticipated a need for RR right of ways, trucking lanes, foot and cycle trails. It probably could have squeezed in a couple of 1 runway airports. This all would be 10-15 miles east of the I-5 corridor. It is still needed, but it will never happen. It would have cost money. Horrors! He was replaced by an even more conservative Republican.
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czbb
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 5:15 pm

NWNightfly wrote:
"We've been looking at it from a time standpoint, not necessarily a distance standpoint," Bishop said. "If you can get from Moses Lake to Seattle within an hour, then I certainly think from an international model, that fits in those parameters."

Sounds like a deal, if you can do that first part. Now, the trick is building a ("bullet?") train line capable of an average speed of 180 M.P.H.

Over the Cascade mountain passes.

:roll:


Well, the Americans might not be up to it, but the French and the Spanish did it through the Pyrenees, and the Swiss through the Alps.
 
golfingboy
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 5:21 pm

gunsontheroof wrote:

BOS, PHL and SAN (among others) are all smaller than SEA.

As for the main subject, I look forward to this airport opening in 2075.


Yes and they all have similar problems...

SEA does have a little room to grow by getting creative on how to add more gates, but sooner than later they will reach a point where they will have to set limits like LGA/LHR/etc.

At this point at all four airports the runways aren't the problem, its the gates.
Last edited by golfingboy on Sun May 19, 2019 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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madpropsyo
Posts: 65
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 5:21 pm

Runway capacity constraints at SEA could be solved by introducing advanced PRM procedures as in SFO. SEA’s 16R/C are already further apart than SFO’s 28R/L. Terminal capacity is being addressed albeit slowly.

The population density doesn’t exist to make bullet trains work in the PNW corridor (or anywhere on the west coast IMO). And terrain/water/sky high real estate prices would make it cost prohibitive anyway.
 
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7BOEING7
Posts: 3039
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 5:29 pm

MLIAA wrote:
They’re trying to get another airport built to serve the Seattle metro area. The possibilities and speculation begin! Alaska widebody service, new PNW AA hub...

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/recomm ... /949913410


It's nice to see the "Green" governor who's running for President on a "green" platform wants to cut down trees and fly more polluting aircraft thru our skies -- well marijuana is legal and he's over 18.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 6:49 pm

erentz wrote:
Passedv1 wrote:
One last option... why don't we give up on the current SEA configuration and build a new terminal down the middle where 16C and T presently are... Once the terminal is built you could destroy the existing terminal along International BLVD and build a new runway. You would then have two approach streams in all WX and one dedicated departure runway...


Totally agree. This is the most logical reconfiguration of SEA, and it's been absolutely frustrating to watch them rebuild the central runway, and now spend billions on terminal expansions in their current locations. They should have had a long term plan to shift to this very configuration.

If the plan for a new "Greater Seattle Airport" included the option of fully replacing SEA (e.g. like Denver). Then I actually would support investigating three new locations for an airport that would involve purchasing all the existing neighborhoods, but which would still be in the Tacoma to Seattle corridor. Thus they could still pick up spurs or diversions from the main heavy railway corridor, and thus their catchment could effectively span the whole Olympia to Seattle corridor once that railway is upgraded and electrified (and Portland and beyond once it extends that far south, Mt Vernon and beyond once it expands that far north). That is, it would be a natural stop along the spine of future high speed rail right up and down the cascades.

These locations are drawn very crudely on the map below. Yellow is the existing railway corridors, dashed yellow loops or spurs off those that could tunnel under the respective plateaus to serve stops in the heart of the airport terminals. These areas are actually quite sparse still in terms of the number of homes affected, but of course it wouldn't be without opposition. SEA itself would be demolished and reclaimed for housing/etc.

Image


I'm a little confused by the diagram, but each of the areas you highlighted are indeed hundreds of fee higher in elevation than the rail lines you noted. I'm not clear how tunneling would really help with that but I'm probably missing something. The areas, though, are not sparsely populated, per se, and there is zero way that anyone is going to build an airport in those areas if that's what is being proposed.

frmrCapCadet wrote:
About 30 years ago a Republican state legislature proposed a mile wide transportation corridor from Battleground in the SW to Marysville. He anticipated a need for RR right of ways, trucking lanes, foot and cycle trails. It probably could have squeezed in a couple of 1 runway airports. This all would be 10-15 miles east of the I-5 corridor. It is still needed, but it will never happen. It would have cost money. Horrors! He was replaced by an even more conservative Republican.


I liked the idea at the time but I think there was this sort of resistance to the idea that such a rural route would really be useful or make sense. I remember it being further east than that - as much as 30 miles - but I might be remembering it wrong.

I don't know who proposed it, but it's been a long time since conservatives have had any control over what goes on in Washington State that I can't imagine it would have mattered. As it is, there's a very Seattle-centric mindset, making it hard to imagine money going towards anything that didn't involve Seattle (even if it would have benefited in some aspects).

czbb wrote:
NWNightfly wrote:
"We've been looking at it from a time standpoint, not necessarily a distance standpoint," Bishop said. "If you can get from Moses Lake to Seattle within an hour, then I certainly think from an international model, that fits in those parameters."

Sounds like a deal, if you can do that first part. Now, the trick is building a ("bullet?") train line capable of an average speed of 180 M.P.H.

Over the Cascade mountain passes.

:roll:


Well, the Americans might not be up to it, but the French and the Spanish did it through the Pyrenees, and the Swiss through the Alps.


I'm still confused by the comment about going up and over the passes - we'd tunnel. It's not a new concept and it would reduce the grade substantially.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Overthecascades
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 6:58 pm

How do we make existing seatac airport more capable? Can we relocate anything to make room?
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3061
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 7:03 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
erentz wrote:
Passedv1 wrote:
One last option... why don't we give up on the current SEA configuration and build a new terminal down the middle where 16C and T presently are... Once the terminal is built you could destroy the existing terminal along International BLVD and build a new runway. You would then have two approach streams in all WX and one dedicated departure runway...


Totally agree. This is the most logical reconfiguration of SEA, and it's been absolutely frustrating to watch them rebuild the central runway, and now spend billions on terminal expansions in their current locations. They should have had a long term plan to shift to this very configuration.

If the plan for a new "Greater Seattle Airport" included the option of fully replacing SEA (e.g. like Denver). Then I actually would support investigating three new locations for an airport that would involve purchasing all the existing neighborhoods, but which would still be in the Tacoma to Seattle corridor. Thus they could still pick up spurs or diversions from the main heavy railway corridor, and thus their catchment could effectively span the whole Olympia to Seattle corridor once that railway is upgraded and electrified (and Portland and beyond once it extends that far south, Mt Vernon and beyond once it expands that far north). That is, it would be a natural stop along the spine of future high speed rail right up and down the cascades.

These locations are drawn very crudely on the map below. Yellow is the existing railway corridors, dashed yellow loops or spurs off those that could tunnel under the respective plateaus to serve stops in the heart of the airport terminals. These areas are actually quite sparse still in terms of the number of homes affected, but of course it wouldn't be without opposition. SEA itself would be demolished and reclaimed for housing/etc.

Image


I'm a little confused by the diagram, but each of the areas you highlighted are indeed hundreds of fee higher in elevation than the rail lines you noted. I'm not clear how tunneling would really help with that but I'm probably missing something. The areas, though, are not sparsely populated, per se, and there is zero way that anyone is going to build an airport in those areas if that's what is being proposed.

frmrCapCadet wrote:
About 30 years ago a Republican state legislature proposed a mile wide transportation corridor from Battleground in the SW to Marysville. He anticipated a need for RR right of ways, trucking lanes, foot and cycle trails. It probably could have squeezed in a couple of 1 runway airports. This all would be 10-15 miles east of the I-5 corridor. It is still needed, but it will never happen. It would have cost money. Horrors! He was replaced by an even more conservative Republican.


I liked the idea at the time but I think there was this sort of resistance to the idea that such a rural route would really be useful or make sense. I remember it being further east than that - as much as 30 miles - but I might be remembering it wrong.

I don't know who proposed it, but it's been a long time since conservatives have had any control over what goes on in Washington State that I can't imagine it would have mattered. As it is, there's a very Seattle-centric mindset, making it hard to imagine money going towards anything that didn't involve Seattle (even if it would have benefited in some aspects).

czbb wrote:
NWNightfly wrote:
Sounds like a deal, if you can do that first part. Now, the trick is building a ("bullet?") train line capable of an average speed of 180 M.P.H.

Over the Cascade mountain passes.

:roll:


Well, the Americans might not be up to it, but the French and the Spanish did it through the Pyrenees, and the Swiss through the Alps.


I'm still confused by the comment about going up and over the passes - we'd tunnel. It's not a new concept and it would reduce the grade substantially.


At the time state Senator Cooke was serving I think Republicans were in control of the senate, and have had a majority for much of that time since. The BNSF right of way has been operating at capacity for some time now, and also has the handicap of going through the center of our most populous cities. And that right of way along the shoreline from Seattle to Blaine is also vulnerable to sea rise as well as the current land slides. There may be spots were it was 30 miles from I-5. I remember it as going through Yelm and just east of Ft Lewis. I do not remember the alignment Seattle to Marysville but the Cascade foothills are pretty tight against the eastside suburbs. Seattle is something like 30 miles east of Olympia - doesn't seem possible!
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InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 7:29 pm

I know that the environmental activists would probably kill me, but what about turning Vashon in to an airport? Or maybe something between Sammamish and Duvall?
--
Aegean Blue, United 1K
 
speedbird52
Posts: 762
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 9:45 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
MLIAA wrote:
They’re trying to get another airport built to serve the Seattle metro area. The possibilities and speculation begin! Alaska widebody service, new PNW AA hub...

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/recomm ... /949913410


It's nice to see the "Green" governor who's running for President on a "green" platform wants to cut down trees and fly more polluting aircraft thru our skies -- well marijuana is legal and he's over 18.

The amount of trees that would get cut down are insignificant. As a city grows, you just don't have a choice but to expand the airport of that city. Of course, there is an easy solution of VLAs, but until every major airport in the country decides to stop expanding, refusing to expand would put Seattle at an economic disadvantage. However, there is no practical reason to keep generating electricity with coal, or to not want to invest in electric vehicles.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 10:08 pm

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
I know that the environmental activists would probably kill me, but what about turning Vashon in to an airport? Or maybe something between Sammamish and Duvall?


You may have missed this delightful thread: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... &t=1405251

I don't know if you're a Western Washington resident or not, but I can assure you that any proposal to turn Vashon into an airport would result in the formation of a very weird militia. Any such proposal would also be logistically insane, very, very expensive and not particularly practical for SEA relief.

As for the Duvall/Sammamish idea, there's a reason that land isn't built up. It can't support anything resembling infrastructure, whether it's a strip mall or an airport. The land is prone to flooding, the ground is soft and the well-to-do folks who live nearby would absolutely loose their minds at the first mention of an airport being built out there. I grew up in that area and saw every buildable part of it grow for the better part of twenty years--the untouched parts remained as farmland because they're impractical to develop.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
speedbird52
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 10:22 pm

gunsontheroof wrote:
InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
I know that the environmental activists would probably kill me, but what about turning Vashon in to an airport? Or maybe something between Sammamish and Duvall?


You may have missed this delightful thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1405251

I don't know if you're a Western Washington resident or not, but I can assure you that any proposal to turn Vashon into an airport would result in the formation of a very weird militia. Any such proposal would also be logistically insane, very, very expensive and not particularly practical for SEA relief.

As for the Duvall/Sammamish idea, there's a reason that land isn't built up. It can't support anything resembling infrastructure, whether it's a strip mall or an airport. The land is prone to flooding, the ground is soft and the well-to-do folks who live nearby would absolutely loose their minds at the first mention of an airport being built out there. I grew up in that area and saw every buildable part of it grow for the better part of twenty years--the untouched parts remained as farmland because they're impractical to develop.

What made that poster think that Seattle needs an airport bigger than Changi?
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 10:42 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:
InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
I know that the environmental activists would probably kill me, but what about turning Vashon in to an airport? Or maybe something between Sammamish and Duvall?


You may have missed this delightful thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1405251

I don't know if you're a Western Washington resident or not, but I can assure you that any proposal to turn Vashon into an airport would result in the formation of a very weird militia. Any such proposal would also be logistically insane, very, very expensive and not particularly practical for SEA relief.

As for the Duvall/Sammamish idea, there's a reason that land isn't built up. It can't support anything resembling infrastructure, whether it's a strip mall or an airport. The land is prone to flooding, the ground is soft and the well-to-do folks who live nearby would absolutely loose their minds at the first mention of an airport being built out there. I grew up in that area and saw every buildable part of it grow for the better part of twenty years--the untouched parts remained as farmland because they're impractical to develop.

What made that poster think that Seattle needs an airport bigger than Changi?


If that fried your circuits, don't search for their LGA proposal.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
AirFiero
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 10:45 pm

Prost wrote:
Knowing how we operate here in Seattle, I doubt anything will happen before 2040.


Knowing how things are done in Seattle (and California), there won’t be any need for airports in 2040 because OMG global warming Zero CO2.

How far is Moses Lake from downtown Seattle?
 
speedbird52
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 11:08 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Prost wrote:
Knowing how we operate here in Seattle, I doubt anything will happen before 2040.


Knowing how things are done in Seattle (and California), there won’t be any need for airports in 2040 because OMG global warming Zero CO2.

How far is Moses Lake from downtown Seattle?

The amount of misinformation about global warming my peers spam on their Instagram make me wish that they weren't spreading misinformation so that I wouldn't have to share a planet with them anymore. People genuinely believe that my generation will die in our 30s because of global warming.
 
Tailwinds
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Sun May 19, 2019 11:41 pm

KSEA does have an airport master plan that actually runs through in detail all the things they can do to increase capacity and reliability. So instead of reinventing the wheel on A.net we could just go look at that document and ask what's holding it back from implementation. Image

Nothing really matters on the ground until they fix the mess that's in the air. The "noise corridors" wreck departure efficiency, the STARs don't have downwinds so they overwhelm controllers with airplanes coming from all over, and the whole place manages not to efficiently delay aircraft.
 
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jbpdx
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 12:04 am

MLIAA wrote:
They’re trying to get another airport built to serve the Seattle metro area. The possibilities and speculation begin! Alaska widebody service, new PNW AA hub...

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/recomm ... /949913410


Image
Next: AS PDX-OGG-PDX
DL PDX-LHR-PDX
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 12:07 am

AirFiero wrote:
Prost wrote:
Knowing how we operate here in Seattle, I doubt anything will happen before 2040.


How far is Moses Lake from downtown Seattle?


Almost 180 miles. I can't believe this idea continues to rise from the dead every few years.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4988
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 12:20 am

I think half JBLM would be the easiest solution. They could set it up like CHS.
 
speedbird52
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 12:35 am

Tailwinds wrote:
KSEA does have an airport master plan that actually runs through in detail all the things they can do to increase capacity and reliability. So instead of reinventing the wheel on A.net we could just go look at that document and ask what's holding it back from implementation. Image

Nothing really matters on the ground until they fix the mess that's in the air. The "noise corridors" wreck departure efficiency, the STARs don't have downwinds so they overwhelm controllers with airplanes coming from all over, and the whole place manages not to efficiently delay aircraft.

Does anyone else think that this development would make KSEA a ground movement hell? I feel like there is a reason airports generally aren't just one long thin stretch. Also, what would be done for getting passengers around this maze of an airport? Would the existing subway be expanded. Can it be expanded considering the way it is designed? Would a new skytrain be built?
 
speedbird52
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 12:40 am

What about building a terminal on the 16R/34L side of the airport and having a subway connect the two terminals? Would it be too expensive? You could forgo the subway but anyone who has connected through Heathrow will tell you why having two terminals so far away from each other is a bad idea. I suppose we could have terminal 1 be the Skyteam/Alaska/regional/partners terminal and terminal 2 be OneWorld, Star Alliance and all other carriers. But Alaska also has a partnership with BA and Emirates. Plenty of posters have put forth the midfield terminal idea. What about a toaster rack arrangement?
 
sealevel
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 12:50 am

Just wait for Mt. Rainier to wake up, you will have plenty of room...
 
cschleic
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 1:19 am

Sea-Tac's issue is gates (and constrained ramp areas) not runways. Recognizing this, instead of trying to develop an enormous amount of land somewhere, why not look to smaller pieces of land adjacent to SEA...such as across the street. Either would use eminent domain so focus on what's easier. Move the garage and perhaps portions of the terminal across Pacific Highway and that frees up a lot of current terminal space for gates. Buildings could exist over the roadway.

In the near term, similar to the L.A. area, develop regional or even national services from satellite airports (Paine, Olympia, etc.) to shift portions of that traffic away from SEA and focus international and related connections on SEA.
 
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ER757
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 1:31 am

OLM and McChord seem like the two best options, although the Air Force probably isn't too keen about putting commercial ops there. What about expanding Bremerton? I think it could possibly work as a reliever airport for at least regional ops
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 1:42 am

Bremerton right now is surrounded on three sides by commercial forests, it should be fairly inexpensive to preserve an 8 square mile area, although it is a bridge or two from the 'mainland'.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
Airnerd
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 4:11 am

SEA should be able to accommodate 60-70M annual passengers if they keep building it out. Some freight may need to be displaced. PAE can be expanded to handle 10-15M with existing runway. Think SJC or SNA linear terminal. That's a total passenger count roughly 2x today's numbers. Should be enough for quite a while. No one is going to Moses Lake.
 
speedbird52
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 4:16 am

Airnerd wrote:
SEA should be able to accommodate 60-70M annual passengers if they keep building it out. Some freight may need to be displaced. PAE can be expanded to handle 10-15M with existing runway. Think SJC or SNA linear terminal. That's a total passenger count roughly 2x today's numbers. Should be enough for quite a while. No one is going to Moses Lake.

Believe me, the people who live near PAE would explode at the idea of expansion. Right now as someone who lives in Edmonds I almost never even see the airplanes flying, but people in my neighborhood were loosing their minds at the idea of commercial service
 
sohanb82
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 4:20 am

Moses Lake is so damn far from Seattle that United flew to Moses Lake from Seattle for a year.
 
AirFiero
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 5:46 am

speedbird52 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Prost wrote:
Knowing how we operate here in Seattle, I doubt anything will happen before 2040.


Knowing how things are done in Seattle (and California), there won’t be any need for airports in 2040 because OMG global warming Zero CO2.

How far is Moses Lake from downtown Seattle?

The amount of misinformation about global warming my peers spam on their Instagram make me wish that they weren't spreading misinformation so that I wouldn't have to share a planet with them anymore. People genuinely believe that my generation will die in our 30s because of global warming.


Then they should stop believing bs and hype.
 
superbizzy73
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 8:35 am

Any expansion to the west, and you’ll start cutting into a major bypass freeway (509) and the Burien area. There’s already some NIMBY persons in Burien who are pissed about QX’s departures to the north, where they cut right over town. Any expansion of SEA to the west will be fought by the “there’s too much noise around the airport, and it pollutes way too much” crowd. And, being born and raised around the airport, and seeing previous expansions (as in all the neighborhoods bought out for the third runway project), and with the mindset of more and more people in the Puget Sound area (I’m not going to go into politics...don’t even bother asking), any expansion (or, a new airport, for that matter) are nearly a no-go from the word “start”.
 
speedbird52
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Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 9:18 am

superbizzy73 wrote:
Any expansion to the west, and you’ll start cutting into a major bypass freeway (509) and the Burien area. There’s already some NIMBY persons in Burien who are pissed about QX’s departures to the north, where they cut right over town. Any expansion of SEA to the west will be fought by the “there’s too much noise around the airport, and it pollutes way too much” crowd. And, being born and raised around the airport, and seeing previous expansions (as in all the neighborhoods bought out for the third runway project), and with the mindset of more and more people in the Puget Sound area (I’m not going to go into politics...don’t even bother asking), any expansion (or, a new airport, for that matter) are nearly a no-go from the word “start”.

I feel like Seattle's residents are their own worst enemy's. Both on a personal scale and a societal scale. I have the definition of a love hate relationship with my city.
 
Armadillo1
Posts: 471
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 9:45 am

 
speedbird52
Posts: 762
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 10:11 am

Armadillo1 wrote:

Why do we have such an obsession with Moses Lake
 
BTV290
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:33 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 10:36 am

Sorry--ATC idiot here... I know just enough to be dangerous.
I work at SEA and frequently see them doing departures on the centre runway, and arrivals on the far runway only.... Why!? Wouldn't you always want to be using the long runway for departures? When I see them use that configuration, the long runway just sits unused and seems like such a waste.
Also, are the two L/R runways not far enough apart for simultaneous landing?
Sorry I'm not the best with the lingo. Simply, as someone who spends a lot of time flying in and out, and also staring out the terminal window at what's going on out there, the SEA airspace seems to be managed quite differently from other airports of comparable size or configuration...
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3061
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 12:32 pm

IIRC the two older runways are too close for bad weather landings, the new 3rd runway to the west has largely meant that they always have two runways available. Anyone chime in as to when and how they use all 3 simultaneously?
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2031
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 2:48 pm

Tailwinds wrote:
KSEA does have an airport master plan that actually runs through in detail all the things they can do to increase capacity and reliability. So instead of reinventing the wheel on A.net we could just go look at that document and ask what's holding it back from implementation.


Thank you! Yes, the Port of Seattle does have a plan for relocating the current fire station and air cargo facilities to the former golf course land at the south end of the runways. Relocating the AS hangers to this area has been discussed as well. The new terminal to the north of the current facility, connected by above-ground train, would replace most existing ramp/structures on the north side of the field.

Spend the day reading the long-term plan:

https://www.portseattle.org/plans/susta ... -plan-samp
 
SEA
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:21 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 3:02 pm

Get more service at PAE so there are more options for those north of Seattle, then expand Olympia.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 3:09 pm

Seems like slot controls would be the least expensive and common sense option. Especially enforced on SEA-XXX pairs with more than 10 flights a day
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 4:16 pm

gunsontheroof wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Prost wrote:
Knowing how we operate here in Seattle, I doubt anything will happen before 2040.


How far is Moses Lake from downtown Seattle?


Almost 180 miles. I can't believe this idea continues to rise from the dead every few years.


Holy crap, that’s a longer distance than SJC to SMF.
 
DenverTed
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 5:35 pm

You could probably pay everyone near Seatac fair market value plus $1M USD to move away for what it would cost to create that rail link.
[/quote]
Probably
 
DenverTed
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 5:43 pm

PAE. Or the only other place I can see for a new runway in the greater Seattle area, Tulalip International Airport.
 
zuckie13
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 5:56 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
I love how they present Moses Lake as having five runways when three of those five runways can't be used by anything larger than a Beechcraft

Edit: I only see three runways


I missed the too until I looked really close. A few of the taxiways are essentially marked as runways.
 
Airnerd
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:57 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 7:28 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
Airnerd wrote:
SEA should be able to accommodate 60-70M annual passengers if they keep building it out. Some freight may need to be displaced. PAE can be expanded to handle 10-15M with existing runway. Think SJC or SNA linear terminal. That's a total passenger count roughly 2x today's numbers. Should be enough for quite a while. No one is going to Moses Lake.

Believe me, the people who live near PAE would explode at the idea of expansion. Right now as someone who lives in Edmonds I almost never even see the airplanes flying, but people in my neighborhood were loosing their minds at the idea of commercial service


Of course they’ll “explode”. No one ever wants to be near an expanding airport. But this battle with neighbors of an exiting commercial airport is going to be far easier to fight and eventually win than any discussion of a new commercial airport to serve the region. Plus it will ultimately serve the greater good much more efficiently than any other option.
 
User avatar
smithbs
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Mon May 20, 2019 8:44 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
I feel like Seattle's residents are their own worst enemy's. Both on a personal scale and a societal scale. I have the definition of a love hate relationship with my city.


Seattle area is too bipolar. We know we need it, don't want to pay for it, want to build it, but just nowhere near me personally. We'll vote for it now because it sounds like a good idea, and then vote away the funds when the bill actually arrives and is big enough to make Inslee blush (if that is possible). Good luck!

How poor Moses Lake gets pulled into this I don't know. It's a long way in time and geography, and there's not even commercial service there. People who live in ML drive to the Tri-Cities (1 hour) to get a flight, even when Wenatchee gets its own commercial service and is closer to the west side.

I vote with the others - get SEA working more efficiently while getting PAE up and running. SEA is hardly utilized well, and any solution must address the TSA situation, which in my flying experience is the worst in the country.
 
DenverTed
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: New Greater Seattle Airport

Tue May 21, 2019 3:20 pm

smithbs wrote:
SEA is hardly utilized well, and any solution must address the TSA situation, which in my flying experience is the worst in the country.


This is true. If you arrive at the ends of the terminal, they redirect you to line 3, which is a long walk, and then a haphazard line. This should be fixed to be consistent and obvious. Usually the times are not too bad, I will say that.

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