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dallas6940
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 12:49 am

I have a patient who is an engineer that works for DFW Airport. I’ve asked this patient about 3-5 years ago about Terminal C remodel. This patient said the only reason they didn’t start the remodel of C is because AA was complaining at the cost of Terminal F and didn’t want to pay for it, so DFW Airport was holding up the remodel of C and using it as a bargaining chip with AA. I remember the patient said when DFW Airport announces official plans for Terminal F thats when C will get a remodel. Looks like the patient was correct. I asked about the asbestos in C and was told no more than the other terminals.

I asked about Terminal F design and the patient said nothing official but basically a copy of D with some tweaks for better efficiencies.
 
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N717TW
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 1:16 am

I love you folks but DFW is so much harder to connect in than ATL. DEN and DTW are probably the real dreams as US hubs go. I suppose compared to PHL, IAH or MSP, its easy. (just last week I went from low Ds to high Bs...4 stops on the train and a fair amount of walking....)
 
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zululima
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 1:16 am

Six down, seven to go!

Image
I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
 
Fargo
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 1:40 am

N717TW wrote:
I love you folks but DFW is so much harder to connect in than ATL. DEN and DTW are probably the real dreams as US hubs go. I suppose compared to PHL, IAH or MSP, its easy. (just last week I went from low Ds to high Bs...4 stops on the train and a fair amount of walking....)


If they would just centralize the ticketing/baggage/ground transportation, that would solve most, if not all of the problems. Like I've said, DFW is a great airport, but its terminal layout is holding it back from its full potential. It's not practical to bulldoze and rebuild the complex into a ATL linear-style layout, but there are other ways in which things could be built.
 
Antarius
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 1:54 am

N717TW wrote:
I love you folks but DFW is so much harder to connect in than ATL. DEN and DTW are probably the real dreams as US hubs go. I suppose compared to PHL, IAH or MSP, its easy. (just last week I went from low Ds to high Bs...4 stops on the train and a fair amount of walking....)


How is it harder than ATL?

DEN and DTW are great for both connecting and O&D, but i stll think DFW trumps both in terms of pure connecting.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 2:01 am

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
These asbestos rumors in Terminal C have persisted on this site, but is there any documentation of this?
The timing just doesn't make sense. If all of the original terminals had asbestos, that would make sense, but any renovations to 3E after the original opening to make individual gate areas would have been after builders stopped using asbestos. The "temporary" extension was in the 80's long after asbestos was flat-out banned.

Isn't the more plausible scenario that they simply went way over budget with TRIP and had to scrap C?
this is something that DFW does not want to blast otherwise it would become known as Terminal Cancer. Not real appealing.
 
AA737-823
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 2:15 am

N717TW wrote:
I love you folks but DFW is so much harder to connect in than ATL. DEN and DTW are probably the real dreams as US hubs go. I suppose compared to PHL, IAH or MSP, its easy. (just last week I went from low Ds to high Bs...4 stops on the train and a fair amount of walking....)


We love you too, but you're still wrong.
:-D
When I arrive into DEN from ANC on UA, I arrive at gate 16.
My connecting flight to DFW on a CR7 (yuck) leaves from the regional gates in DEN's "grand central station."
That means I walk nearly A MILE, ON FOOT. If I'm lucky, the moving walkways are working.
I walk pretty quick, until I run into a mob of people who seemingly have never encountered an airport terminal in their entire lives.

DFW takes the cake over DEN any day, in that regard.
That said, it's hard to beat a breakfast burrito from Cantina Laredo upstairs at DEN.

And I flew through ATL about a year ago. Sure, connections are pretty easy, but the airport terminals in general are a dump. Kind of like SLC, which is a very manageable connection, but still a dump.
Fortunately, SLC is starting all over from scratch. Bigger airports like ATL and DFW cannot- and should not- afford to do that.

I for one CAN'T WAIT! to see what design they chose for Terminal F, and just how extensive the renovations at C turn out to be.
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 2:17 am

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
These asbestos rumors in Terminal C have persisted on this site, but is there any documentation of this?
The timing just doesn't make sense. If all of the original terminals had asbestos, that would make sense, but any renovations to 3E after the original opening to make individual gate areas would have been after builders stopped using asbestos. The "temporary" extension was in the 80's long after asbestos was flat-out banned.

Isn't the more plausible scenario that they simply went way over budget with TRIP and had to scrap C?
this is something that DFW does not want to blast otherwise it would become known as Terminal Cancer. Not real appealing.


I didn't mean documentation as in an advertisement, I meant documentation such as board meeting minutes or similar.
For now, I'm calling B.S. on asbestos being the reason C hasn't been renovated. It doesn't make any sense that terminal C would have any more asbestos that A, B, or E.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 2:31 am

N717TW wrote:
I love you folks but DFW is so much harder to connect in than ATL. DEN and DTW are probably the real dreams as US hubs go. I suppose compared to PHL, IAH or MSP, its easy. (just last week I went from low Ds to high Bs...4 stops on the train and a fair amount of walking....)


DTW easier to connect in than DFW? Sure, when the intra-concourse tram works in the A concourse at McNamara (if it's out of service for repairs and you have to connect on the opposite side of the concourse, it's a pretty long hike compared to most airports). And if you're connecting flight arrives at the B/C concourse at McNamara and your continuing flight is at A? Good luck with that.

Also, unless you're talking about a different airport, Low D gates to High B gates should only be one stop on SkyTrain at DFW. High D to Low B would be four stops (could that be what you meant?).

DTW is far from a "dream hub" as far as connections are concerned at least in my personal opinion.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
itchief
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 2:40 am

Antarius wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:


Neither are great for connecting. I assume the D requires less walking for the pax at the extremes (and less movement below). Obvious DFW was not even remotely considering a drastic overhaul (like one giant terminal) for say the next 50-100 years. They could still in the future with this configuration add some more stringers and connectors for even more gates in the future if required.


DFW is wonderful for connecting. You can be at any other gate within 15 minutes or so and it's a BIG airport. Last week, I checked into A, hopped on the Tram and went over to Terminal D. Less than 10 minutes from going through security in Terminal A to getting down the escalator in Terminal D.


Agreed. DFW is the best hub airport in the world for connecting, IMO - quick and easy between gates.

O&D pax get the shaft though. If you check bags and parked, you're stuck schlepping your bags to a bus to get back to your car.


Not true. O&D pax using Express parking (new F will displace Express South to somewhere else) is the best airport parking anywhere. Express North has covered parking. The Express Bus picks you up at your car, takes you to the security entrance closest to the gate that you are flying out of no matter what terminal. When you return no matter what terminal you fly back to they pick you up and drop you right at your car.
 
Antarius
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 3:10 am

itchief wrote:
Antarius wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:

DFW is wonderful for connecting. You can be at any other gate within 15 minutes or so and it's a BIG airport. Last week, I checked into A, hopped on the Tram and went over to Terminal D. Less than 10 minutes from going through security in Terminal A to getting down the escalator in Terminal D.


Agreed. DFW is the best hub airport in the world for connecting, IMO - quick and easy between gates.

O&D pax get the shaft though. If you check bags and parked, you're stuck schlepping your bags to a bus to get back to your car.


Not true. O&D pax using Express parking (new F will displace Express South to somewhere else) is the best airport parking anywhere. Express North has covered parking. The Express Bus picks you up at your car, takes you to the security entrance closest to the gate that you are flying out of no matter what terminal. When you return no matter what terminal you fly back to they pick you up and drop you right at your car.


That still requires a bus. The benefit of terminal parking is showing up 30 odd mins before a flight and getting on.

The strategy of getting the car and short term is valid as a workaround though
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 3:23 am

N717TW wrote:
I love you folks but DFW is so much harder to connect in than ATL.


Did you try using the SkyLink?

At DFW, you are never more than about 12 minutes from one gate to any other. Never.

ATL is not horrifying or anything, but overall, it's a far more crowded and less PAX friendly layout for connections. If you're at the far north end of one terminal, heading to the far north or south end of another, it's not going to be a quick connection, especially if you're connecting more than two terminals away.

Of all the times I've been through both, there's yet to be a time when ATL was as easy to use. And after several hundred opportunities, that being a matter of luck is out of the question.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
YoungDon
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 4:40 am

N717TW wrote:
I love you folks but DFW is so much harder to connect in than ATL. DEN and DTW are probably the real dreams as US hubs go. I suppose compared to PHL, IAH or MSP, its easy. (just last week I went from low Ds to high Bs...4 stops on the train and a fair amount of walking....)


I agree with this - DTW and DEN are my favorite two in the US as far as connections go. DFW isn't bad though. Probably a little better than ATL simply because it feels less claustrophobic.
 
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deltacto
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 10:13 am

AMALH747430 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

The reason they haven't updated C after they did A and E is that the Asbestos abatement was going to cost more than demolishing the terminal and build a new one.


Why was C different than A,B or E?



If memory serves me right, 3E aka "C" had a unique design. It was originally designed without seating areas at each gate. There were large holding areas/departure lounges (two I believe) with big departure boards. These boards would alert passengers that their flight was ready for board. The terminal was later retrofitted and redesigned to have seating areas at each gate. I wonder if the extra asbestos not present in the other terminals came from this renovation and the construction of the temporary structure that makes up the southern 1/3 of of the terminal?


Yes ... scroll down to response #24 in this thread ... user LoneStarMike posted some awesome pics of the original 3E

Why Did 'car To Gate' Work For DFW But Not MCI?

viewtopic.php?t=572757
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 1:07 pm

itchief wrote:
Antarius wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:

DFW is wonderful for connecting. You can be at any other gate within 15 minutes or so and it's a BIG airport. Last week, I checked into A, hopped on the Tram and went over to Terminal D. Less than 10 minutes from going through security in Terminal A to getting down the escalator in Terminal D.


Agreed. DFW is the best hub airport in the world for connecting, IMO - quick and easy between gates.

O&D pax get the shaft though. If you check bags and parked, you're stuck schlepping your bags to a bus to get back to your car.


Not true. O&D pax using Express parking (new F will displace Express South to somewhere else) is the best airport parking anywhere. Express North has covered parking. The Express Bus picks you up at your car, takes you to the security entrance closest to the gate that you are flying out of no matter what terminal. When you return no matter what terminal you fly back to they pick you up and drop you right at your car.



Yes, when you are using Express North. We use it on our longer vacations and it works well (unless you come in late at night and buses are few and far between). But what we are referencing is when you have a short vacation or decide to park at the terminal, like I did last week. Again, it's okay if you don't check a bag, but if you do, it would be wise to try and study up beforehand to see where your arriving flight back will land and park at that terminal.

I have no complaints about it, but the bottom line is, if you Depart and Park at Terminal D, and arrive back at Terminal A with checked luggage, it can be a royal pain.

When I'm traveling with my wife, I'll jump on the tram to get to the appropriate terminal/parking garage and let her get the luggage off the belt and stand right outside. I get the car and pick her and the luggage up.
Whatever
 
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gdg9
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 1:24 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
These asbestos rumors in Terminal C have persisted on this site, but is there any documentation of this?
The timing just doesn't make sense. If all of the original terminals had asbestos, that would make sense, but any renovations to 3E after the original opening to make individual gate areas would have been after builders stopped using asbestos. The "temporary" extension was in the 80's long after asbestos was flat-out banned.

Isn't the more plausible scenario that they simply went way over budget with TRIP and had to scrap C?


The airport comms folks told me there was no issue with asbestos in Terminal C. Yet you are correct, the rumor persists. Agreed. C has asbestos but none of the others, built at same time, did?

I think C has so many gates used each day, right now there isn't an easy way to move all the flights from say 10-12 gates at a time elsewhere at DFW while that portion of C is renovated. Maybe with the E Satellite, who knows.
@dfwtower
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 1:32 pm

The question is if anyone has missed a connection as a result of the terminal design.

Unlike many airports, the train is airside (unlike EWR, which I recall having to exit to groundside, then going through security again).
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 1:38 pm

gdg9 wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
These asbestos rumors in Terminal C have persisted on this site, but is there any documentation of this?
The timing just doesn't make sense. If all of the original terminals had asbestos, that would make sense, but any renovations to 3E after the original opening to make individual gate areas would have been after builders stopped using asbestos. The "temporary" extension was in the 80's long after asbestos was flat-out banned.

Isn't the more plausible scenario that they simply went way over budget with TRIP and had to scrap C?


The airport comms folks told me there was no issue with asbestos in Terminal C. Yet you are correct, the rumor persists. Agreed. C has asbestos but none of the others, built at same time, did?

I think C has so many gates used each day, right now there isn't an easy way to move all the flights from say 10-12 gates at a time elsewhere at DFW while that portion of C is renovated. Maybe with the E Satellite, who knows.



The 'problem' with the E Satellite is that it handles on regional aircraft, no mainline. So you couldn't relocate flights from Term-C to their in the interim.
Whatever
 
airstatdfw
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 2:20 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
gdg9 wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
These asbestos rumors in Terminal C have persisted on this site, but is there any documentation of this?
The timing just doesn't make sense. If all of the original terminals had asbestos, that would make sense, but any renovations to 3E after the original opening to make individual gate areas would have been after builders stopped using asbestos. The "temporary" extension was in the 80's long after asbestos was flat-out banned.

Isn't the more plausible scenario that they simply went way over budget with TRIP and had to scrap C?


The airport comms folks told me there was no issue with asbestos in Terminal C. Yet you are correct, the rumor persists. Agreed. C has asbestos but none of the others, built at same time, did?

I think C has so many gates used each day, right now there isn't an easy way to move all the flights from say 10-12 gates at a time elsewhere at DFW while that portion of C is renovated. Maybe with the E Satellite, who knows.



The 'problem' with the E Satellite is that it handles on regional aircraft, no mainline. So you couldn't relocate flights from Term-C to their in the interim.


They could re configure the E Satellite to handle mainline again. It was set up for mainline during E Trip so, I’m sure they would just need to close some jet bridges or not use them if needed. Like at ORD L8 and L10 are used for mainline at regional ops.
 
mfe777
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 2:22 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
gdg9 wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
These asbestos rumors in Terminal C have persisted on this site, but is there any documentation of this?
The timing just doesn't make sense. If all of the original terminals had asbestos, that would make sense, but any renovations to 3E after the original opening to make individual gate areas would have been after builders stopped using asbestos. The "temporary" extension was in the 80's long after asbestos was flat-out banned.

Isn't the more plausible scenario that they simply went way over budget with TRIP and had to scrap C?


The airport comms folks told me there was no issue with asbestos in Terminal C. Yet you are correct, the rumor persists. Agreed. C has asbestos but none of the others, built at same time, did?

I think C has so many gates used each day, right now there isn't an easy way to move all the flights from say 10-12 gates at a time elsewhere at DFW while that portion of C is renovated. Maybe with the E Satellite, who knows.



The 'problem' with the E Satellite is that it handles on regional aircraft, no mainline. So you couldn't relocate flights from Term-C to their in the interim.


Wasn't one of the goals of the E satellite to clear up space in other areas for mainline flights by moving some regional jet flights to the satellite? I know it was also so they could add more flights overall, but I'm thinking AA knew a Terminal C renovation was coming and they would need some mainline gates to accommodate that.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 2:42 pm

airstatdfw wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
gdg9 wrote:

The airport comms folks told me there was no issue with asbestos in Terminal C. Yet you are correct, the rumor persists. Agreed. C has asbestos but none of the others, built at same time, did?

I think C has so many gates used each day, right now there isn't an easy way to move all the flights from say 10-12 gates at a time elsewhere at DFW while that portion of C is renovated. Maybe with the E Satellite, who knows.



The 'problem' with the E Satellite is that it handles on regional aircraft, no mainline. So you couldn't relocate flights from Term-C to their in the interim.


They could re configure the E Satellite to handle mainline again. It was set up for mainline during E Trip so, I’m sure they would just need to close some jet bridges or not use them if needed. Like at ORD L8 and L10 are used for mainline at regional ops.


Yes, technically they could, but they won't. They just made a concerted effort to convert it all to Regional Operations and it opened over the past couple of weeks. It would more likely open up a few gates in B for mainline operation, but they won't reconfigure the E-Satellite again/now to handle mainline.
Whatever
 
superjeff
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 3:40 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
gdg9 wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
These asbestos rumors in Terminal C have persisted on this site, but is there any documentation of this?
The timing just doesn't make sense. If all of the original terminals had asbestos, that would make sense, but any renovations to 3E after the original opening to make individual gate areas would have been after builders stopped using asbestos. The "temporary" extension was in the 80's long after asbestos was flat-out banned.

Isn't the more plausible scenario that they simply went way over budget with TRIP and had to scrap C?


The airport comms folks told me there was no issue with asbestos in Terminal C. Yet you are correct, the rumor persists. Agreed. C has asbestos but none of the others, built at same time, did?

I think C has so And
Antarius wrote:
ceilings/major work won't happen, just floors and some cosmetic things. Ultimately, it will have to go in the next 10-20 years to a new/rebuild.


When DFW was built, Terminal A was used by Texas International and {the original) Frontier Airlines, Terminal B by Braniff (which was then the biggest carrier at DFW), Terminal C by American and Eastern (but AA by far the bigger), and Terminal E by Continental (about 4 gates), and Delta. (the iindividual airlines handled the interior design of their terminals. Braniff's Terminal 2W (now B) was probably the most (big overhead light globes, typical Braniff art and color, etc.), American's 3E (now C) pretty conservative, and Continental and Delta's 4E (now D) somewhere in between (Delta was the primary tenant). Terminal 2W was pretty basic, but Texas International was still flying Convairs through there, and Frontier had relatively few flights (Denver and Kansas City).

And I have heard that the Terminal C asbestos issue is not a big deal either, no worse than any of the other terminals was, and I believe A, B, and E have been remediated.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 4:09 pm

superjeff wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
gdg9 wrote:

The airport comms folks told me there was no issue with asbestos in Terminal C. Yet you are correct, the rumor persists. Agreed. C has asbestos but none of the others, built at same time, did?

I think C has so And


When DFW was built, Terminal A was used by Texas International and {the original) Frontier Airlines, Terminal B by Braniff (which was then the biggest carrier at DFW), Terminal C by American and Eastern (but AA by far the bigger), and Terminal E by Continental (about 4 gates), and Delta. (the iindividual airlines handled the interior design of their terminals. Braniff's Terminal 2W (now B) was probably the most (big overhead light globes, typical Braniff art and color, etc.), American's 3E (now C) pretty conservative, and Continental and Delta's 4E (now D) somewhere in between (Delta was the primary tenant). Terminal 2W was pretty basic, but Texas International was still flying Convairs through there, and Frontier had relatively few flights (Denver and Kansas City).

And I have heard that the Terminal C asbestos issue is not a big deal either, no worse than any of the other terminals was, and I believe A, B, and E have been remediated.



Confirmed: Terminals A, B & E have been remodeled and are quite nice. As we know, Terminal-D is very nice. This leaves Terminal C as the last remaining dump of a terminal. Unfortunately, it's very hard to avoid if you fly AA much.
Whatever
 
QXfactor
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 4:22 pm

Fargo wrote:
Questions

1. Is Terminal C going to torn down and rebuilt or simply gutted and remodeled?

2. What design they will use for Terminal F? You'd think they could fit a few more than 24 gates, unless that's all AA wants right now.

3. Where will further expansion (i.e, Terminal G) go?


When DFW was first designed in 1968, space was allowed for THIRTEEN horseshoe terminals. https://twitter.com/dfwairport/status/5 ... 4441472001
 
mga707
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Tue May 21, 2019 4:54 pm

superjeff wrote:
When DFW was built, Terminal A was used by Texas International and {the original) Frontier Airlines, Terminal B by Braniff (which was then the biggest carrier at DFW), Terminal C by American and Eastern (but AA by far the bigger), and Terminal E by Continental (about 4 gates), and Delta. (the iindividual airlines handled the interior design of their terminals. Braniff's Terminal 2W (now B) was probably the most (big overhead light globes, typical Braniff art and color, etc.), American's 3E (now C) pretty conservative, and Continental and Delta's 4E (now D) somewhere in between (Delta was the primary tenant). Terminal 2W was pretty basic, but Texas International was still flying Convairs through there, and Frontier had relatively few flights (Denver and Kansas City).


You left out two airlines that served Dallas/Ft. Worth in January 1974 when DFW opened: Mexicana was in 2W (B). 2W and 3E both had Customs facilities, as both AA and BN flew to Mexico from DAL/DFW along with Mexicana. Ozark was in 2E (A) with TI and Frontier. They had been granted DAL a few years earlier and flew to TUL and STL. Frontier had about 15 daily flights from 2E (not 2W, typo) when it opened, a mix of 737s and Convairs. Besides DEN and MCI they also flew to ABQ, OKC, and smaller cities including Ft. Smith AR, Parix TX, and Lawton/Ft. Sill OK. Used to like to go over to that terminal from 3E (C) when connecting on AA to watch the Convairs (Frontier's 580s and TI's 600s). In 3E, AA had all but one gate right in the middle, which was for Eastern and their handful of DC-9s to MSY. Correct about DL and CO sharing 4E (D), with Delta using about 2/3rds of the space and CO the other third.
 
superjeff
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Thu May 23, 2019 12:47 am

mga707 wrote:
superjeff wrote:
When DFW was built, Terminal A was used by Texas International and {the original) Frontier Airlines, Terminal B by Braniff (which was then the biggest carrier at DFW), Terminal C by American and Eastern (but AA by far the bigger), and Terminal E by Continental (about 4 gates), and Delta. (the iindividual airlines handled the interior design of their terminals. Braniff's Terminal 2W (now B) was probably the most (big overhead light globes, typical Braniff art and color, etc.), American's 3E (now C) pretty conservative, and Continental and Delta's 4E (now D) somewhere in between (Delta was the primary tenant). Terminal 2W was pretty basic, but Texas International was still flying Convairs through there, and Frontier had relatively few flights (Denver and Kansas City).


You left out two airlines that served Dallas/Ft. Worth in January 1974 when DFW opened: Mexicana was in 2W (B). 2W and 3E both had Customs facilities, as both AA and BN flew to Mexico from DAL/DFW along with Mexicana. Ozark was in 2E (A) with TI and Frontier. They had been granted DAL a few years earlier and flew to TUL and STL. Frontier had about 15 daily flights from 2E (not 2W, typo) when it opened, a mix of 737s and Convairs. Besides DEN and MCI they also flew to ABQ, OKC, and smaller cities including Ft. Smith AR, Parix TX, and Lawton/Ft. Sill OK. Used to like to go over to that terminal from 3E (C) when connecting on AA to watch the Convairs (Frontier's 580s and TI's 600s). In 3E, AA had all but one gate right in the middle, which was for Eastern and their handful of DC-9s to MSY. Correct about DL and CO sharing 4E (D), with Delta using about 2/3rds of the space and CO the other third.


Thanks for the correction. I forgot about Ozark, and thought Frontier had already cut many of the old Central Airlines routes (to Arkansas, Lawton, Paris, etc. But I didn't realize that Mexicana was flying into DFW that early, I thought they entered the market somewhat later.
 
ozark1
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Thu May 23, 2019 1:20 am

DFW17L wrote:
Skylink is great. Though they need to double the size of the train sets and the station stop doors. As it is, sometimes the trains are packed.

I agree. The departures out of Eagle Terminal B is where it gets really congested. I have had to wait a couple of times for a train I could find space in. Terminal C is an ancient mess inside. In the beginning, as someone in an earlier post said...it started without any seating at the individual gates, the thinking being they would be ok waiting in a general lounge until the flight was called. NOT. Everyone standing at the gates with no place to sit made them change the layout quickly. It smells old and the tiled floor area with the “clickety clack” of constant rollerboard wheels is enough to drive you nuts. Looking forward to the updates.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Thu May 23, 2019 8:28 pm

Antarius wrote:
N717TW wrote:
I love you folks but DFW is so much harder to connect in than ATL. DEN and DTW are probably the real dreams as US hubs go. I suppose compared to PHL, IAH or MSP, its easy. (just last week I went from low Ds to high Bs...4 stops on the train and a fair amount of walking....)


How is it harder than ATL?

DEN and DTW are great for both connecting and O&D, but i stll think DFW trumps both in terms of pure connecting.


The midfield terminal at ATL was in a separate location from the old terminal. To rebuild DFW ala ATL, terminals would have to be demolished and rebuilt at the same time of moving airlines and hundreds of flights. That ship sailed and sunk 30 years ago.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
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N717TW
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Sat May 25, 2019 3:36 pm

Antarius wrote:
N717TW wrote:
I love you folks but DFW is so much harder to connect in than ATL. DEN and DTW are probably the real dreams as US hubs go. I suppose compared to PHL, IAH or MSP, its easy. (just last week I went from low Ds to high Bs...4 stops on the train and a fair amount of walking....)


How is it harder than ATL?

DEN and DTW are great for both connecting and O&D, but i stll think DFW trumps both in terms of pure connecting.



ATL was designed for easy connecting in a post-security world compared to DFW which was designed for an easy drive up to gate situation in a pre-security world. Its the difference between an early 70s and early 80s world where hubs-and-spoke (although ATL already was one) and security screening became the reality post-deregulation. There is a reason why circle terminal designs stopped after DFW and MCI while linear concourse design of ATL has been copied repeatedly.

As to the ATL design: the stacked/rowed concourses and central train allow for a very efficient movement of passengers -- and remember ATL is the world's busiest airport. The distance the train has to travel to get you from one end to the other is less than half the distance than DFW (which has to go around the airport rather than just running up/down the middle. Then the distance to walk from the middle to the end might be slightly longer than the distance from the DFW tram to the furthest gate but its not dramatic. One can get from the farthest points (T1 to F1) in about 20 minutes with normal walking. I've done that exact route before although most of my connections are between T, A and B which are super short. the only hit against ATL is that was built before moving walkways were a common thing and the concourses themselves aren't wide enough to fit them.
 
khinstorff
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Sun May 26, 2019 3:56 am

We’ve heard through the years that this terminal wasn’t being built because AA and DFW couldn’t agree on a design. Why would DFW care? Efficiency and streamlined ops is a huge priority for airlines, why wouldn’t the DFW team give its largest tenant what it wants in terms of design.

Now, I can understand not overbuilding gates. In a totally made up scenario, if another airline had to come into the space because AA went belly-up, they’d still want the efficiently designed space over a Terminal B or C.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:35 pm

khinstorff wrote:
YouGeeElWhy wrote:
khinstorff wrote:

Agreed. I'm not convinced that C will remain a half circle as well.
$500M is not going to change the shape of C. They said up to 24 gates which is about what you'd expected with a horseshoe. If it had fingers (ala new IST) it would have many more gates than 24.


I do think it’s possible that there isn’t a plan that’s set in stone for C. With F being done first, it gives them time to figure out a long-term solution for C, which very well could include total demolition, turning C into a head house for A & E, flattening the semi circle, etc. It just seems very premature to say all they will do is a small facelift like replacing the floors and reconfiguring security. Also, the 24 gates is a reference to F’s capacity, not C’s.

I love DFW, except terminal C. That terminal needs to be demolished.

I am personally sad F isn't more ambitious.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
sketch
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:45 pm

legend500 wrote:
(the major destinations not served by AA out of DFW include ADS, AFW, DAL, RBD and TKI)

DFW to DAL? On what, a helicopter?
 
DFW17L
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:25 pm

sketch wrote:
legend500 wrote:
(the major destinations not served by AA out of DFW include ADS, AFW, DAL, RBD and TKI)

DFW to DAL? On what, a helicopter?


It's called the DART Orange line. :lol:
 
NiMar
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Re: DFW Announces Terminal F Plans & C Renovations

Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:27 pm

I think AA should build three more stingers (one more on Term B, two on Term A) and consolidate much of their AE flights to those, freeing up the rest of Term B to mainline service, especially if C is going to be out of service for a remodel. Those stingers would be very close to skytrain stations so they'd be very useful as I imagine a lot of AE travelers connect onward.

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