Brickell305
Posts: 592
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:01 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
https://apnews.com/7eb99124b7aa4ff9aa03f659eb18fd7c

"FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) — American Airlines says mechanics are defying a court order and continuing a work slowdown that is disrupting flights during the busy summer travel season.

The mechanics’ unions say American is at fault. They say the airline walked away from contract talks, leading to low morale which might affect how quickly mechanics perform their work.

A trial is scheduled for Monday in federal district court in Fort Worth on American’s request for a permanent injunction against the Transport Workers Union and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers."

If the Union's excuse is that since AA walked away from contract talks it might affect how quickly they perform their work, they're going to need OJ Simpson's jury to side with them. Surely they can come up with a better excuse than that.

That actually is a legitimate defense. What the union is stating is that the action is not union organized but the action taken by management has lowered morale and therefore workers (on their own accord) are performing more slowly. A union can't be held liable for something the workers are doing on their own accord with no encouragement or sanction from the union.

AA is in a no win situation here. They can sue the union from now until kingdom come but they can't physically force mechanics to finish work faster short of reprimanding them individually which will in turn worsen morale and create more issues.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:27 pm

 
bob75013
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:35 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
https://apnews.com/7eb99124b7aa4ff9aa03f659eb18fd7c

"FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) — American Airlines says mechanics are defying a court order and continuing a work slowdown that is disrupting flights during the busy summer travel season.

The mechanics’ unions say American is at fault. They say the airline walked away from contract talks, leading to low morale which might affect how quickly mechanics perform their work.

A trial is scheduled for Monday in federal district court in Fort Worth on American’s request for a permanent injunction against the Transport Workers Union and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers."

If the Union's excuse is that since AA walked away from contract talks it might affect how quickly they perform their work, they're going to need OJ Simpson's jury to side with them. Surely they can come up with a better excuse than that.

That actually is a legitimate defense. What the union is stating is that the action is not union organized but the action taken by management has lowered morale and therefore workers (on their own accord) are performing more slowly. A union can't be held liable for something the workers are doing on their own accord with no encouragement or sanction from the union.

AA is in a no win situation here. They can sue the union from now until kingdom come but they can't physically force mechanics to finish work faster short of reprimanding them individually which will in turn worsen morale and create more issues.


The court can grant an injunction, and then fine the union BIG BUCK$ if the situation doesn't change. It wouldn't be the first time:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1999/04/aa-a17.html
 
Brickell305
Posts: 592
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:40 pm

bob75013 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
https://apnews.com/7eb99124b7aa4ff9aa03f659eb18fd7c

"FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) — American Airlines says mechanics are defying a court order and continuing a work slowdown that is disrupting flights during the busy summer travel season.

The mechanics’ unions say American is at fault. They say the airline walked away from contract talks, leading to low morale which might affect how quickly mechanics perform their work.

A trial is scheduled for Monday in federal district court in Fort Worth on American’s request for a permanent injunction against the Transport Workers Union and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers."

If the Union's excuse is that since AA walked away from contract talks it might affect how quickly they perform their work, they're going to need OJ Simpson's jury to side with them. Surely they can come up with a better excuse than that.

That actually is a legitimate defense. What the union is stating is that the action is not union organized but the action taken by management has lowered morale and therefore workers (on their own accord) are performing more slowly. A union can't be held liable for something the workers are doing on their own accord with no encouragement or sanction from the union.

AA is in a no win situation here. They can sue the union from now until kingdom come but they can't physically force mechanics to finish work faster short of reprimanding them individually which will in turn worsen morale and create more issues.



The court can grant an injunction, and then fine the union BIG BUCK$ if the situation doesn't change. It wouldn't be the first time:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1999/04/aa-a17.html
They can fine the hell out of the union. That still doesn't stop AA mechanics from working slowly if they so choose to do.
 
jfern022
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:29 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
airlineguy1234 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
I’m not militant. Im a realist. We lost so much in the two chapter 11s.
AA is making billions, Doug Parker “ We will never lose money again”. Yet they are asking us for concessions.

Doug made $19 million last year, they’ve spent $14 billion over the past several years on stock buybacks, yet the stock is in the tank and they haven’t paid down much debt.

You are on the outside looking on, you didn’t live what LUS and LAA have been through.

For example to put all the Association members on the better and lower cost insurance would cost AA $39 million a year. Yet they have spent $14 billion on buybacks.

Realist, not militant. We gave up plenty to save the company, time for returns.


All this crap going on reminds me of the problems at United during their merger. Delta handled their merger much better than the others did. They treat their employees better in the first place they don’t unionize.

Delta does no such thing, that’s why ramp and flight attendants are trying to unionize.


You get sillier by the day. Closest their FA's came was when IAM forged some cards couple years back and got caught. Some people want the old NW style to prevail by bringing in a union. A little history lesson to newbies will teach them what a steaming pile of crap NW was and to stay away from the IAM/TWU. FA's have it pretty good as is for what their job actually entails.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:29 pm

The company in their motions didn’t seek monetary damages.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:30 pm

bob75013 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
https://apnews.com/7eb99124b7aa4ff9aa03f659eb18fd7c

"FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) — American Airlines says mechanics are defying a court order and continuing a work slowdown that is disrupting flights during the busy summer travel season.

The mechanics’ unions say American is at fault. They say the airline walked away from contract talks, leading to low morale which might affect how quickly mechanics perform their work.

A trial is scheduled for Monday in federal district court in Fort Worth on American’s request for a permanent injunction against the Transport Workers Union and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers."

If the Union's excuse is that since AA walked away from contract talks it might affect how quickly they perform their work, they're going to need OJ Simpson's jury to side with them. Surely they can come up with a better excuse than that.

That actually is a legitimate defense. What the union is stating is that the action is not union organized but the action taken by management has lowered morale and therefore workers (on their own accord) are performing more slowly. A union can't be held liable for something the workers are doing on their own accord with no encouragement or sanction from the union.

AA is in a no win situation here. They can sue the union from now until kingdom come but they can't physically force mechanics to finish work faster short of reprimanding them individually which will in turn worsen morale and create more issues.


The court can grant an injunction, and then fine the union BIG BUCK$ if the situation doesn't change. It wouldn't be the first time:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1999/04/aa-a17.html

Totally different situation and APA never paid AA one penny.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:31 pm

jfern022 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
airlineguy1234 wrote:

All this crap going on reminds me of the problems at United during their merger. Delta handled their merger much better than the others did. They treat their employees better in the first place they don’t unionize.

Delta does no such thing, that’s why ramp and flight attendants are trying to unionize.


You get sillier by the day. Closest their FA's came was when IAM forged some cards couple years back and got caught. Some people want the old NW style to prevail by bringing in a union. A little history lesson to newbies will teach them what a steaming pile of crap NW was and to stay away from the IAM/TWU. FA's have it pretty good as is for what their job actually entails.

Can you show me the proof the IAM forged cards?

Cause the NMB, DOJ, nor the FBI stated that.
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1241
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:33 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
They can fine the hell out of the union. That still doesn't stop AA mechanics from working slowly if they so choose to do.


Not just the "hell out of the union," but insolvency.
Would the threat of insolvency (for the union) make the AA mechanics work faster?
Years ago, that is what a judge did to the AA Pilot's union.
Even after the AA pilots stopped their job action, their union still owed AA all of this money.
Could and should happen again!!!
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1241
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:36 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Totally different situation and APA never paid AA one penny.


Not different at all.
AA used the APA debt as a bargaining chip in negotiations for a new contract.
AA got something for the debt.
 
LittleSprocket
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:56 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:54 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
jfern022 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Delta does no such thing, that’s why ramp and flight attendants are trying to unionize.


You get sillier by the day. Closest their FA's came was when IAM forged some cards couple years back and got caught. Some people want the old NW style to prevail by bringing in a union. A little history lesson to newbies will teach them what a steaming pile of crap NW was and to stay away from the IAM/TWU. FA's have it pretty good as is for what their job actually entails.

Can you show me the proof the IAM forged cards?

Cause the NMB, DOJ, nor the FBI stated that.


Actually, they did... https://www.thestreet.com/story/1310814 ... -feds.html
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:36 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
jfern022 wrote:

You get sillier by the day. Closest their FA's came was when IAM forged some cards couple years back and got caught. Some people want the old NW style to prevail by bringing in a union. A little history lesson to newbies will teach them what a steaming pile of crap NW was and to stay away from the IAM/TWU. FA's have it pretty good as is for what their job actually entails.

Can you show me the proof the IAM forged cards?

Cause the NMB, DOJ, nor the FBI stated that.


Actually, they did... https://www.thestreet.com/story/1310814 ... -feds.html

It says no such thing. Your article doesn’t state who was responsible for the forged cards.

I know for a fact one FA on No away AFA had her computer seized by the feds and her and another anti-union FA stared they forged cards.
 
LittleSprocket
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:56 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:40 am

Boof02671 wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Can you show me the proof the IAM forged cards?

Cause the NMB, DOJ, nor the FBI stated that.


Actually, they did... https://www.thestreet.com/story/1310814 ... -feds.html

It says no such thing. Your article doesn’t state who was responsible for the forged cards.

I know for a fact one FA on No away AFA had her computer seized by the feds and her and another anti-union FA stared they forged cards.


Sure they did...have any proof of that or is it just hearsay? Nobody that is anti union is going to forge cards to risk having an election drawn. The only ones that would risk that are those that have something to gain...that’s common sense.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:34 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:

It says no such thing. Your article doesn’t state who was responsible for the forged cards.

I know for a fact one FA on No away AFA had her computer seized by the feds and her and another anti-union FA stared they forged cards.


Sure they did...have any proof of that or is it just hearsay? Nobody that is anti union is going to forge cards to risk having an election drawn. The only ones that would risk that are those that have something to gain...that’s common sense.

No it’s not signing a card calls for an election. Forged cards wouldn’t help in an election succeeding, it would do the exact opposite.

Ask the FBI.
 
NWAESC
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:13 am

Boof02671 wrote:
I know for a fact one FA on No away AFA had her computer seized by the feds and her and another anti-union FA stared they forged cards.


Source?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
User avatar
BroadwayLimited
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:01 am

Mods...this thread is going off topic. Time to close
Signed up for Delta and Eastern Frequent Flyer Programs August 31, 1981.
 
Boof02671
Topic Author
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:58 pm

Dallas Morning News

FORT WORTH — A leader of the union representing American Airlines mechanics said a lawsuit accusing its members of slowing down work "came as a shock" during testimony in federal court Monday.

Gary Peterson, a Transport Workers Union vice president based at DFW International Airport, said he and other union leaders tried to disprove accusations that they told members to slow down work and turn down overtime to increase pressure on American as the parties negotiate a new combined contract after four years of talks.

"No one from American Airlines reached out to us before this about a slowdown," he said.

The two sides laid out arguments in U.S. District Court in Fort Worth. Lawyers and witnesses for American contend statistics since February show that a backlog of maintenance work can be pinned on illegal union collusion. They also keyed on signs and internet posts at various locations throughout the country earlier this year that American interpreted as a call to action for maintenance workers.

The world's largest airline estimates as many as 88,000 customers have had flights delayed or canceled because of the alleged slowdowns.

Lawyers for TWU and the International Association of Machinists tried to poke holes in American's statistician expert witness, arguing that an increase in flight delays and maintenance issues predated a breakdown in contract negotiations in February.

It will likely be more than a month before Judge John McBryde decides what to do in the case, based on a timeline he granted after hearing Monday's arguments. McBryde could grant a permanent injunction to the Fort Worth-based carrier and put union leaders under close scrutiny during the entirety of contract negotiations. If that doesn't work, American may have to find another way, such as financial penalties.

American's case leaned heavily on testimony by David Seymour, senior vice president for integrated operations, that the number of planes not available to fly after overnight maintenance work had nearly doubled during the last five months compared to previous years.

American also pointed to the fact that it's had problems filling opportunities for overtime pay, remote work at other locations and letting maintenance workers skip lunch for overtime pay.

"Historically, we've never had a problem filling overtime when we offer it," Seymour said. "We haven't gotten the same productivity we've gotten in the past."

TWU lawyer Mark Richard hammered Seymour on whether the airline had disciplined individual mechanics, to which Seymour answered no.

Instead, American's argument relied on a broad analysis of maintenance delays. It brought in airline operations statistician Darin Lee as an expert witness who testified that data showed workers were almost certainly to blame for slowdowns. He cited data on planes out of service after overnight work and on unfilled overtime. He said large hubs such as Phoenix and Charlotte, N.C., had days when all maintenance workers refused overtime requests.

Union lawyers countered with their own statistician, Christian Tregillis, who said American was overstating backups in the maintenance system. In fact, he said, pilots were putting in a higher number of work orders.

Under a temporary restraining order McBryde issued June 14, union leaders were required to tell members they weren't endorsing a slowdown, discouraging overtime or off-site work assignments or doing anything else to delay or cancel flights.

Peterson said he and other union leaders had gone to great lengths to stop any coordinated work slowdowns. He said any internet posts or signs encouraging members to slow down work were unauthorized and immediately removed.

"We did everything we could to make sure we did what we were required to do by the court," Peterson said.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: AA sues IAM-TWU Association over alleged slowdown

Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:57 pm

Thread has gone off topic. Feel free to start part 2, but keep on topic.
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