Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
UpNAWAy wrote:Obviously they can't give bonuses without the union signing off.
Have airline unions ever not been fined in these cases? Seems like they always loose and it cost the members millions. Why do they always keep trying the same failed tactic?
Detroit313 wrote:About time!
American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.
Detroit313 wrote:About time!
American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.
Boof02671 wrote:Detroit313 wrote:About time!
American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.
No they didn’t
Concessions
They are asking for the following:
1. Increases of outsourcing and a loss of 2,200 Mechanic jobs in heavy maintenance.
2. Increase of outsourcing of line maintenance and a loss of 1,000 Mechanic jobs.
3. Elimination of Facilities/Plant Maintenance which is a loss of jobs.
4. As people retire, die or leave the company those jobs will not be replaced.
5. Elimination of catering which is a loss of hundreds if not a 1,000 jobs.
6. Only having ramp doing “Core Work”, which is unloading and loading planes, which is a loss of thousands of jobs.
7. Elimination of deicing, loss of jobs.
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
9. Elimination of the LUS IAM Member Medical insurance which is an increase of several thousand dollars and less coverage.
10. Increased outsourcing of GSE and elimination of jobs.
11. Outsourcing of stores elimination of hundreds of jobs.
Boof02671 wrote:Detroit313 wrote:About time!
American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.
No they didn’t
Concessions
They are asking for the following:
1. Increases of outsourcing and a loss of 2,200 Mechanic jobs in heavy maintenance.
2. Increase of outsourcing of line maintenance and a loss of 1,000 Mechanic jobs.
3. Elimination of Facilities/Plant Maintenance which is a loss of jobs.
4. As people retire, die or leave the company those jobs will not be replaced.
5. Elimination of catering which is a loss of hundreds if not a 1,000 jobs.
6. Only having ramp doing “Core Work”, which is unloading and loading planes, which is a loss of thousands of jobs.
7. Elimination of deicing, loss of jobs.
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
9. Elimination of the LUS IAM Member Medical insurance which is an increase of several thousand dollars and less coverage.
10. Increased outsourcing of GSE and elimination of jobs.
11. Outsourcing of stores elimination of hundreds of jobs.
UpNAWAy wrote:Boof02671 wrote:Detroit313 wrote:About time!
American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.
No they didn’t
Concessions
They are asking for the following:
1. Increases of outsourcing and a loss of 2,200 Mechanic jobs in heavy maintenance.
2. Increase of outsourcing of line maintenance and a loss of 1,000 Mechanic jobs.
3. Elimination of Facilities/Plant Maintenance which is a loss of jobs.
4. As people retire, die or leave the company those jobs will not be replaced.
5. Elimination of catering which is a loss of hundreds if not a 1,000 jobs.
6. Only having ramp doing “Core Work”, which is unloading and loading planes, which is a loss of thousands of jobs.
7. Elimination of deicing, loss of jobs.
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
9. Elimination of the LUS IAM Member Medical insurance which is an increase of several thousand dollars and less coverage.
10. Increased outsourcing of GSE and elimination of jobs.
11. Outsourcing of stores elimination of hundreds of jobs.
You are not being forthright about the job losses. Not a single current employee losses a job. You are talking about future not even hired employees. Not a single current person has to move either. And even after that AA still does more in house work than anyone else by a long shot.
Boof02671 wrote:UpNAWAy wrote:Boof02671 wrote:No they didn’t
Concessions
They are asking for the following:
1. Increases of outsourcing and a loss of 2,200 Mechanic jobs in heavy maintenance.
2. Increase of outsourcing of line maintenance and a loss of 1,000 Mechanic jobs.
3. Elimination of Facilities/Plant Maintenance which is a loss of jobs.
4. As people retire, die or leave the company those jobs will not be replaced.
5. Elimination of catering which is a loss of hundreds if not a 1,000 jobs.
6. Only having ramp doing “Core Work”, which is unloading and loading planes, which is a loss of thousands of jobs.
7. Elimination of deicing, loss of jobs.
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
9. Elimination of the LUS IAM Member Medical insurance which is an increase of several thousand dollars and less coverage.
10. Increased outsourcing of GSE and elimination of jobs.
11. Outsourcing of stores elimination of hundreds of jobs.
Not replacing people erodes seniority and noticed how you ignored the rest.
Boof02671 wrote:UpNAWAy wrote:Obviously they can't give bonuses without the union signing off.
Have airline unions ever not been fined in these cases? Seems like they always loose and it cost the members millions. Why do they always keep trying the same failed tactic?
It’s not a failed tactic, working by the book is perfectly legal and effective, guess you didn’t read about WN and their mechanics?
Only case where fines were imposed was the APA at AA and those fines were never imposed nor paid.
Boof02671 wrote:All the planes are not brand new, the average fleet age at AA is 10.8 years. Planes have numerous components and they do break
Boof02671 wrote:Guess you totally ignored the LUS Airbus fleet and there handful of 80s left like 34. 34 out of 963 planes doesn’t really effect the age.
Boof02671 wrote:Detroit313 wrote:About time!
American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.
And Delta doesn’t have a contract as their mechanics are non-union.
SierraPacific wrote:How about Management negotiates a fair contract that satisfies both parties instead of filing a lawsuit against the people that fix your planes? Obviously whatever contract they have proposed is not good enough to satisfy the other party so negotiations must continue.
I forgot this is America where the employees take it with no way to fight back while the CEO and the board makes tens of millions a year then bailout of a doomed company with a golden parachute.
Boof02671 wrote:Not replacing people erodes seniority
EA CO AS wrote:Boof02671 wrote:Not replacing people erodes seniority
Typical union mentality; if the company decides they can do the same work more efficiently with fewer people without outsourcing it, why should they be forced to hire replacements in perpetuity when they're not needed? The current jobs are protected, but you're asking for the "work" to be protected forever, and that's the sort of thinking that would have kept buggy-whip manufacturers around today.
impilot wrote:EA CO AS wrote:Boof02671 wrote:Not replacing people erodes seniority
Typical union mentality; if the company decides they can do the same work more efficiently with fewer people without outsourcing it, why should they be forced to hire replacements in perpetuity when they're not needed? The current jobs are protected, but you're asking for the "work" to be protected forever, and that's the sort of thinking that would have kept buggy-whip manufacturers around today.
Who said they aren’t outsourcing the jobs in the future?
Boof02671 wrote:They are going to outsource that’s in the company’s proposals.
Boof02671 wrote:Detroit313 wrote:About time!
American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.
No they didn’t
Concessions
They are asking for the following:
1. Increases of outsourcing and a loss of 2,200 Mechanic jobs in heavy maintenance.
2. Increase of outsourcing of line maintenance and a loss of 1,000 Mechanic jobs.
3. Elimination of Facilities/Plant Maintenance which is a loss of jobs.
4. As people retire, die or leave the company those jobs will not be replaced.
5. Elimination of catering which is a loss of hundreds if not a 1,000 jobs.
6. Only having ramp doing “Core Work”, which is unloading and loading planes, which is a loss of thousands of jobs.
7. Elimination of deicing, loss of jobs.
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
9. Elimination of the LUS IAM Member Medical insurance which is an increase of several thousand dollars and less coverage.
10. Increased outsourcing of GSE and elimination of jobs.
11. Outsourcing of stores elimination of hundreds of jobs.
UpNAWAy wrote:Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.
UpNAWAy wrote:Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.
LMP737 wrote:UpNAWAy wrote:Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.
So what do you do for a living?
LMP737 wrote:UpNAWAy wrote:Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.
So what do you do for a living?
UpNAWAy wrote:LMP737 wrote:UpNAWAy wrote:Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.
So what do you do for a living?
Irrelevant. But it's also a job likely to be replaced by AI.
UpNAWAy wrote:LMP737 wrote:UpNAWAy wrote:Rampers should not worry about future jobs that likely won't even exist in 20 years due to technology. Protecting unneeded jobs has killed a lot more needed jobs than saved.
So what do you do for a living?
Irrelevant. But it's also a job likely to be replaced by AI.
LMP737 wrote:So what do you do for a living?
KFTG wrote:Airlines are not jobs programs.
Boof02671 wrote:Detroit313 wrote:About time!
American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.
No they didn’t
Concessions
They are asking for the following:
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
Boof02671 wrote:Show me a robot that can climb into a bin and stack bags.
usairways787 wrote:UpNAWAy wrote:LMP737 wrote:
So what do you do for a living?
Irrelevant. But it's also a job likely to be replaced by AI.
Then you don't have a dog in this fight. Don't come in here bashing those who are actually out here on the line while you sit in the AC and talk sh*t about a contract or our quality of life when you're not even apart of it. You just stay in your little HDQ building that was just built for no reason, and you take your little bicycle around that campus, and say hello to Doug while the rest of out here contribute to something.
RDUDDJI wrote:Boof02671 wrote:Detroit313 wrote:About time!
American gas offered them a contract that is 100 times better than what they get at United and Delta.
No they didn’t
Concessions
They are asking for the following:
8. Freezing of the IAMPF, and replace with 401k contribution and match, and it’s concessionary as not everyone will contribute so the company saves money.
Union members would be wise to take the 401k AND require a big company contribution (i.e. 10%). Otherwise next bankruptcy, they'll just dumb the pension liability. Just ask all the people getting the fraction of their pension payments from the PBGC*. Take the 401k and a big company contribution, and now you control your money. Get laid off, and you just roll your money into your new 401k.
*Off topic: I wonder how much longer the PBGC will be around. They're already billions underwater.
RDUDDJI wrote:Boof02671 wrote:Show me a robot that can climb into a bin and stack bags.
From one who works in the automotive sector: be careful what you ask for. They do exist. The technology may be too expensive (or fragile for the ramp environment) right now, but so is paying a ramper $200,000/yr (incl. benes) to throw bags. At some point, automation will take over some of the bag loading. How much...depends on the ROI, but as humans get more expensive and robots less expensive...just ask the UAW how it goes.