B742
Topic Author
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VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 11:27 am

Virgin Atlantic have announced a return to Mumbai from 27OCT with daily 787-9 operations from LHR.

Fills the gap slightly which was left by the demise of 9W.

https://blog.virginatlantic.com/virgin- ... to-mumbai/
 
x1234
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 12:00 pm

So WHY do the existing DEL flights NOT connect with the existing US bank of flights!? VS needs to re-time the DEL flights to connect so they can achieve higher load factors.
 
x1234
Posts: 253
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 12:03 pm

Also the LOS flights don't connect to the US either. Only the JNB flights do.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 12:14 pm

x1234 wrote:
So WHY do the existing DEL flights NOT connect with the existing US bank of flights!? VS needs to re-time the DEL flights to connect so they can achieve higher load factors.


I would infer that VS considers the arrival timing of O&D xxx-LHR and LHR-DEL more important than xxx-LHR-DEL connecting traffic. (Maybe they're constrained by slot timing, too.)

I'm waiting for some people to blame VS' master, Delta Air Lines, for this route add.
 
AAMDanny
Posts: 276
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 12:19 pm

VS connect LOS/DEL to JFK on the VS25/26 rotations.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the DEL timing's change in the future, however The ME3 still have India-US well covered
 
x1234
Posts: 253
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 12:45 pm

AAMDanny, but Delta's US corporate customers mostly don't fly the ME3! With Jet Airways dead someone had to fill BOM capacity with Delta being a pusher of US-India traffic through their UK/EU partner hubs...
 
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enilria
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 12:57 pm

B742 wrote:
Virgin Atlantic have announced a return to Mumbai from 27OCT with daily 787-9 operations from LHR.

Fills the gap slightly which was left by the demise of 9W.

https://blog.virginatlantic.com/virgin- ... to-mumbai/

I understand Jet is gone (DL's partner), but for DL (and their control of VS) to reverse themselves on the viability of India so quickly is perplexing. I think the ME3 pricing to India is identical, but what has changed is that DL is now willing to lose money on India because their corporate customers have told them it is important. Jet just provided a small timing opportunity.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 1:27 pm

enilria wrote:
...
I understand Jet is gone (DL's partner), but for DL (and their control of VS) to reverse themselves on the viability of India so quickly is perplexing. I think the ME3 pricing to India is identical, but what has changed is that DL is now willing to lose money on India because their corporate customers have told them it is important. Jet just provided a small timing opportunity.


BOM-LHR O&D premium market is huge, the only issue is it is culturally sensitive. You should know your DYKWIAs. BA could never capture this segment, sure people fly as a last resort. ME3 could never drive out AI or 9W, even though they forced VS out and some BA downgauges.

I think VS has potential.
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 1:53 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
enilria wrote:
...
I understand Jet is gone (DL's partner), but for DL (and their control of VS) to reverse themselves on the viability of India so quickly is perplexing. I think the ME3 pricing to India is identical, but what has changed is that DL is now willing to lose money on India because their corporate customers have told them it is important. Jet just provided a small timing opportunity.


BOM-LHR O&D premium market is huge, the only issue is it is culturally sensitive. You should know your DYKWIAs. BA could never capture this segment, sure people fly as a last resort. ME3 could never drive out AI or 9W, even though they forced VS out and some BA downgauges.

I think VS has potential.


Cool story bro.
 
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tlecam
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 2:14 pm

enilria wrote:
B742 wrote:
Virgin Atlantic have announced a return to Mumbai from 27OCT with daily 787-9 operations from LHR.

Fills the gap slightly which was left by the demise of 9W.

https://blog.virginatlantic.com/virgin- ... to-mumbai/

I understand Jet is gone (DL's partner), but for DL (and their control of VS) to reverse themselves on the viability of India so quickly is perplexing. I think the ME3 pricing to India is identical, but what has changed is that DL is now willing to lose money on India because their corporate customers have told them it is important. Jet just provided a small timing opportunity.


I agree with you; I don't really quite get it, beyond the obvious of "Jet is done; something must be done."

What's more surprising to me is that VS is launching BOM, not KLM or AF (re) starting service there. Those two hubs connect many more skyteam customers than VS at LHR.

Maybe there is more to come.

I know that DL is (finally) starting JFK-BOM, but I'm one of those who just doesn't want to fly that long. I prefer a stop over in Europe. I'll happily fly VS to DEL and BOM; I enjoy their experience. But SkyTeam is very limited for one stop options to India; lack of service to (at a minimum) Chennai and Bangalore is problem, nevermind Hyderabad, Pune, Calcutta, Trivandrum etc..
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
Sightseer
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 2:37 pm

tlecam wrote:
What's more surprising to me is that VS is launching BOM, not KLM or AF (re) starting service there.

AF (though it's currently Joon until June 25) and KL already serve BOM.
 
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flyer1225
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 2:46 pm

AAMDanny wrote:
VS connect LOS/DEL to JFK on the VS25/26 rotations.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the DEL timing's change in the future, however The ME3 still have India-US well covered


As a regular JFK-BOM traveler who tries to fly VS as much as possible, the VS 25/26 connection to their former BOM and current DEL flights was always terribly inconvenient, with an early morning departure from JFK and a late night arrival back in. I'm really looking forward to this resumption of service - perhaps third time's the charm for VS @ BOM?
6E/9W/AA/AF/AI/AS/B6/BA/DJ/DL/EK/FL/HA/IC/IT/JQ/LH/LX/OS/QF/S2/SG/UA/US/VS/VX/WN
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 3:52 pm

enilria wrote:
B742 wrote:
Virgin Atlantic have announced a return to Mumbai from 27OCT with daily 787-9 operations from LHR.

Fills the gap slightly which was left by the demise of 9W.

https://blog.virginatlantic.com/virgin- ... to-mumbai/

I understand Jet is gone (DL's partner), but for DL (and their control of VS) to reverse themselves on the viability of India so quickly is perplexing. I think the ME3 pricing to India is identical, but what has changed is that DL is now willing to lose money on India because their corporate customers have told them it is important. Jet just provided a small timing opportunity.


I think VS knows if they don’t start someone else will enter. 9W had 4 daily 77W flights to LHR (3 from BOM and one from DEL). That is a lot of capacity to lose. Say 40% of JEt’s traffic connected onward to VS/DL flights to the US, who will fill those seats to the US without having yield plummet.
 
Arion640
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 4:09 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
enilria wrote:
B742 wrote:
Virgin Atlantic have announced a return to Mumbai from 27OCT with daily 787-9 operations from LHR.

Fills the gap slightly which was left by the demise of 9W.

https://blog.virginatlantic.com/virgin- ... to-mumbai/

I understand Jet is gone (DL's partner), but for DL (and their control of VS) to reverse themselves on the viability of India so quickly is perplexing. I think the ME3 pricing to India is identical, but what has changed is that DL is now willing to lose money on India because their corporate customers have told them it is important. Jet just provided a small timing opportunity.


I think VS knows if they don’t start someone else will enter. 9W had 4 daily 77W flights to LHR (3 from BOM and one from DEL). That is a lot of capacity to lose. Say 40% of JEt’s traffic connected onward to VS/DL flights to the US, who will fill those seats to the US without having yield plummet.


Agreed - Or the traffic goes off Dubai’s or Schiphols runway instead.
223 319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 764 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 MD83 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

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Malayil
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 4:17 pm

x1234 wrote:
So WHY do the existing DEL flights NOT connect with the existing US bank of flights!? VS needs to re-time the DEL flights to connect so they can achieve higher load factors.


Honestly this is getting annoying now. In every thread about Indian aviation there are always Indians based in the US clamouring for more connections to the US. We get it guys. But not everything is about US-India traffic. Maybe the good burghers of London can fill the route purely on O&D. It's great that India is getting another direct flight to LON, stop harping about the US.
 
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stl07
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 4:24 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
enilria wrote:
...
I understand Jet is gone (DL's partner), but for DL (and their control of VS) to reverse themselves on the viability of India so quickly is perplexing. I think the ME3 pricing to India is identical, but what has changed is that DL is now willing to lose money on India because their corporate customers have told them it is important. Jet just provided a small timing opportunity.


BOM-LHR O&D premium market is huge, the only issue is it is culturally sensitive. You should know your DYKWIAs. BA could never capture this segment, sure people fly as a last resort. ME3 could never drive out AI or 9W, even though they forced VS out and some BA downgauges.

I think VS has potential.


Cool story bro.

Actually, he is right. Nobody understands the number of cultural expectations of some (not all) Indians until they actually go there. There is a sentiment of not wanting to travel on "middle eastern" carriers and with some older Indians even the British carriers as both regions have oppressed Indians at some point in time or in the case of Qatar/Bahrain/Kuwait and arguably the UAE continue to do so.
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Jetty
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 4:32 pm

tlecam wrote:
What's more surprising to me is that VS is launching BOM, not KLM or AF (re) starting service there. Those two hubs connect many more skyteam customers than VS at LHR.

Maybe there is more to come.

There is: KL will increase India capacity in the winter. They have slots nor airplanes to do that earlier.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 4:36 pm

stl07 wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

BOM-LHR O&D premium market is huge, the only issue is it is culturally sensitive. You should know your DYKWIAs. BA could never capture this segment, sure people fly as a last resort. ME3 could never drive out AI or 9W, even though they forced VS out and some BA downgauges.

I think VS has potential.


Cool story bro.

Actually, he is right. Nobody understands the number of cultural expectations of some (not all) Indians until they actually go there. There is a sentiment of not wanting to travel on "middle eastern" carriers and with some older Indians even the British carriers as both regions have oppressed Indians at some point in time or in the case of Qatar/Bahrain/Kuwait and arguably the UAE continue to do so.


The idea of avoiding the ME3 is popular with some Indian diaspora. For the reasons you outline. The perceived oppression of Indian labourers in those countries.
 
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Rajahdhani
Posts: 549
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 4:39 pm

Malayil wrote:
x1234 wrote:
So WHY do the existing DEL flights NOT connect with the existing US bank of flights!? VS needs to re-time the DEL flights to connect so they can achieve higher load factors.


Honestly this is getting annoying now. In every thread about Indian aviation there are always Indians based in the US clamouring for more connections to the US. We get it guys. But not everything is about US-India traffic. Maybe the good burghers of London can fill the route purely on O&D. It's great that India is getting another direct flight to LON, stop harping about the US.


...additionally - I wonder where, perhaps DL could 'funnel' that U.S. bound traffic to, instead of LHR. As is, would not having passengers transit through AMS (and connecting on KLM) not provide as lower costs and help a Skyteam (and a TAJV partner as well) at their core costs? In reality - that would be more akin to how AA and UA serve India - with AA more reliant on their main European partner (coincidentally at LHR, but BA), and how UA relies on LH for secondary Indian destinations. Not a perfect analogy - as UA then also has AI connections, and couple than with Non-Stop Indian flights. Delta was hoping to find that parity (with 9W and the new JFK-BOM), but has to settle as 9W is gone. I don't see then why DL would want to 'right time' VS's LHR-BOM to DL's transatlatic flight - as that reduces appeal (and perhaps viability of) DL's own JFK-BOM, with pricing that DL already masters now (via TAJV partners) if necessary to fill that price sensitive demand. Adding a potential third 'bullet' to that revolver and then also potentially sacrificing the premium traffic's demands on the BOM-LHR segment - is doubly foolish. As is, VS can and should market itself as a premium experience and watch leverage itself to both the LHR, and BOM markets first - focus on costs and drive revenue - before worrying at 'Mama DL' - who will be doing the same, and soon, in concern to BOM.

I agree that the 'concerned parties' do sometimes have some complaints - but considering that in the face of the outright disintegration of 9W, DL and VS have advantageously worked to best serve their needs and their core parties. They could have stumbled, or retreated - and yet, took what they had and worked forward. It is a decently responsive move, and a responsible one at that. Those moves still give them an advantage above AA, and did not leave them last - even in the face of the 'failure' of 9W. Not blaming AA for not being as strong in India, but by as much measure - what DL and VS do at BOM is impressive either way.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 4:40 pm

x1234 wrote:
AAMDanny, but Delta's US corporate customers mostly don't fly the ME3! With Jet Airways dead someone had to fill BOM capacity with Delta being a pusher of US-India traffic through their UK/EU partner hubs...


wrong. Few companies have exclusive contracts in 2019. Almost every company has ME3 booking capabilities. Most companies use tools and booking agencies getting on a ME3 to India is not an issue. Majority of US-India traffic is definitely leisure anyway so its a mute point.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 5:11 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
AAMDanny, but Delta's US corporate customers mostly don't fly the ME3! With Jet Airways dead someone had to fill BOM capacity with Delta being a pusher of US-India traffic through their UK/EU partner hubs...


wrong. Few companies have exclusive contracts in 2019. Almost every company has ME3 booking capabilities. Most companies use tools and booking agencies getting on a ME3 to India is not an issue. Majority of US-India traffic is definitely leisure anyway so its a mute point.


So my company strongly encourages us to use DL (and partners) and AA (and partners). You can fly other airlines, but it will get flagged. That said, I don't think Delta really cares about the employee that does one flight every now and then. DL cares about corp clients that are DL elites. I would pretty much never fly a non DL partner internationally. A transatlantic J ticket basically gets me 75k miles. Why would I fly EK?

Btw their is definitely significant business traffic between the US and India. Also the Indian VFR market is very diverse. To make generalizations on how they travel is a mistake. The market is defiantly big enough for DL to focus on their core traveler.
 
aarbee
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 6:22 pm

stl07 wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

BOM-LHR O&D premium market is huge, the only issue is it is culturally sensitive. You should know your DYKWIAs. BA could never capture this segment, sure people fly as a last resort. ME3 could never drive out AI or 9W, even though they forced VS out and some BA downgauges.

I think VS has potential.


Cool story bro.

Actually, he is right. Nobody understands the number of cultural expectations of some (not all) Indians until they actually go there. There is a sentiment of not wanting to travel on "middle eastern" carriers and with some older Indians even the British carriers as both regions have oppressed Indians at some point in time or in the case of Qatar/Bahrain/Kuwait and arguably the UAE continue to do so.


Ahem! That's news to me.

Before ME3 advances in India, BA used to be carrier of choice.
Love the AIXes
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 6:33 pm

aarbee wrote:
stl07 wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:

Cool story bro.

Actually, he is right. Nobody understands the number of cultural expectations of some (not all) Indians until they actually go there. There is a sentiment of not wanting to travel on "middle eastern" carriers and with some older Indians even the British carriers as both regions have oppressed Indians at some point in time or in the case of Qatar/Bahrain/Kuwait and arguably the UAE continue to do so.


Ahem! That's news to me.

Before ME3 advances in India, BA used to be carrier of choice.


Agreed BA First Class was the preference of Bollywood and industrialists in the past. Have no idea how they are doing now except that BA still seems to send premium heavy planes to BOM/DEL/BLR
 
spud757
Posts: 167
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 6:49 pm

And now 9W is gone from MAN what are the chances of VS doing MAN-BOM? VS already picked up some USA (DL/VS) / BOM (9W) connecting traffic via MAN.

With the slot constraints of AMS and LHR, the growing VS-MAN hub, the DL/AF/KL/VS codeshares that will hopefully get JV approval, and the impending integration of BE regional services (already interline with VS) it feels like this could be another opportunity to fill the gap left by 9W for both O&D at MAN and transfer traffic.

Perhaps once the 787 engine issues are all sorted to enable the A330 fleet to support MAN? Plus I believe MAN is due to get the A350 to replace the mostly 744 base.
 
m007j
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:05 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 7:19 pm

aarbee wrote:
stl07 wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:

Cool story bro.

Actually, he is right. Nobody understands the number of cultural expectations of some (not all) Indians until they actually go there. There is a sentiment of not wanting to travel on "middle eastern" carriers and with some older Indians even the British carriers as both regions have oppressed Indians at some point in time or in the case of Qatar/Bahrain/Kuwait and arguably the UAE continue to do so.


Ahem! That's news to me.

Before ME3 advances in India, BA used to be carrier of choice.


Agreed, I'd think BA is still the carrier of choice of a lot of the diaspora here in the US. It's more so apparent in the south of India, no Indian airline flies direct from the south to Europe and beyond, BA, LH, AF, and the ME3 cover this segment well. And after some negative experiences transiting through Dubai and Doha, my entire family is much more likely to fly European. Let's just say the attitude changed very quickly when they heard my accent...
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 10:03 pm

BA's transformation under WW is totally a different topic. Let's not debate here.

If VS follows DL's lead in product/service quality it would do better, otherwise, it will just be a stop gap until Vistara jumps in and AI increases service.

VS is using the UK side of BASA, could have done even when 9W was alive.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Tue May 21, 2019 11:58 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
Malayil wrote:
x1234 wrote:
So WHY do the existing DEL flights NOT connect with the existing US bank of flights!? VS needs to re-time the DEL flights to connect so they can achieve higher load factors.


Honestly this is getting annoying now. In every thread about Indian aviation there are always Indians based in the US clamouring for more connections to the US. We get it guys. But not everything is about US-India traffic. Maybe the good burghers of London can fill the route purely on O&D. It's great that India is getting another direct flight to LON, stop harping about the US.


...additionally - I wonder where, perhaps DL could 'funnel' that U.S. bound traffic to, instead of LHR. As is, would not having passengers transit through AMS (and connecting on KLM) not provide as lower costs and help a Skyteam (and a TAJV partner as well) at their core costs? In reality - that would be more akin to how AA and UA serve India - with AA more reliant on their main European partner (coincidentally at LHR, but BA), and how UA relies on LH for secondary Indian destinations. Not a perfect analogy - as UA then also has AI connections, and couple than with Non-Stop Indian flights. Delta was hoping to find that parity (with 9W and the new JFK-BOM), but has to settle as 9W is gone. I don't see then why DL would want to 'right time' VS's LHR-BOM to DL's transatlatic flight - as that reduces appeal (and perhaps viability of) DL's own JFK-BOM, with pricing that DL already masters now (via TAJV partners) if necessary to fill that price sensitive demand. Adding a potential third 'bullet' to that revolver and then also potentially sacrificing the premium traffic's demands on the BOM-LHR segment - is doubly foolish. As is, VS can and should market itself as a premium experience and watch leverage itself to both the LHR, and BOM markets first - focus on costs and drive revenue - before worrying at 'Mama DL' - who will be doing the same, and soon, in concern to BOM.

I agree that the 'concerned parties' do sometimes have some complaints - but considering that in the face of the outright disintegration of 9W, DL and VS have advantageously worked to best serve their needs and their core parties. They could have stumbled, or retreated - and yet, took what they had and worked forward. It is a decently responsive move, and a responsible one at that. Those moves still give them an advantage above AA, and did not leave them last - even in the face of the 'failure' of 9W. Not blaming AA for not being as strong in India, but by as much measure - what DL and VS do at BOM is impressive either way.


In your opinion, will VS start BLR from LHR?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 12:03 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
A transatlantic J ticket basically gets me 75k miles. Why would I fly EK?

.


Wouldn't EK offer similiar # of miles on J class to India as that of DL?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 12:04 am

m007j wrote:
aarbee wrote:
stl07 wrote:
And after some negative experiences transiting through Dubai and Doha, my entire family is much more likely to fly European. Let's just say the attitude changed very quickly when they heard my accent...


What were the negative experiences. Is you accent Indian or American? Why didn't you hold up your passport if you are American? That usually does the trick in ME3.
 
m007j
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:05 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 2:50 am

edealinfo wrote:
m007j wrote:
aarbee wrote:


What were the negative experiences. Is you accent Indian or American? Why didn't you hold up your passport if you are American? That usually does the trick in ME3.

Airline staff tried to make a quick buck off my parents to check carry-ons that didn't need to be. My parents don't have US passports but I do, I also have an American accent and they don't (but speak English very well). Took the airline guy aside and set him straight by waving my passport in his face, he then said something derogatory in a language he thought I couldn't understand (but of course I could). Told him off again.

That was Dubai, in Doha staff made a stink about having to push my grandmother around (she need a wheelchair as she'd broken her leg). Woman said something highly negative in English assuming no one understood, I told her off in American.

Meanwhile in London and Frankfurt, I've had nothing but positive experiences, staff are always happy to chat and they know to treat (or at least show it) people with a little respect. If I'm traveling 20 hours across the world, I'm not going to want to deal with crap like this from people who are too boneheaded to care about others.
 
binayak
Posts: 927
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 5:45 am

edealinfo wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:


Wouldn't EK offer similiar # of miles on J class to India as that of DL?


And why should pax with DL elite status go for EK miles ?
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 7:13 am

edealinfo wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
Malayil wrote:

Honestly this is getting annoying now. In every thread about Indian aviation there are always Indians based in the US clamouring for more connections to the US. We get it guys. But not everything is about US-India traffic. Maybe the good burghers of London can fill the route purely on O&D. It's great that India is getting another direct flight to LON, stop harping about the US.


...additionally - I wonder where, perhaps DL could 'funnel' that U.S. bound traffic to, instead of LHR. As is, would not having passengers transit through AMS (and connecting on KLM) not provide as lower costs and help a Skyteam (and a TAJV partner as well) at their core costs? In reality - that would be more akin to how AA and UA serve India - with AA more reliant on their main European partner (coincidentally at LHR, but BA), and how UA relies on LH for secondary Indian destinations. Not a perfect analogy - as UA then also has AI connections, and couple than with Non-Stop Indian flights. Delta was hoping to find that parity (with 9W and the new JFK-BOM), but has to settle as 9W is gone. I don't see then why DL would want to 'right time' VS's LHR-BOM to DL's transatlatic flight - as that reduces appeal (and perhaps viability of) DL's own JFK-BOM, with pricing that DL already masters now (via TAJV partners) if necessary to fill that price sensitive demand. Adding a potential third 'bullet' to that revolver and then also potentially sacrificing the premium traffic's demands on the BOM-LHR segment - is doubly foolish. As is, VS can and should market itself as a premium experience and watch leverage itself to both the LHR, and BOM markets first - focus on costs and drive revenue - before worrying at 'Mama DL' - who will be doing the same, and soon, in concern to BOM.

I agree that the 'concerned parties' do sometimes have some complaints - but considering that in the face of the outright disintegration of 9W, DL and VS have advantageously worked to best serve their needs and their core parties. They could have stumbled, or retreated - and yet, took what they had and worked forward. It is a decently responsive move, and a responsible one at that. Those moves still give them an advantage above AA, and did not leave them last - even in the face of the 'failure' of 9W. Not blaming AA for not being as strong in India, but by as much measure - what DL and VS do at BOM is impressive either way.


In your opinion, will VS start BLR from LHR?


I know this question wasn't for me, but thought I would answer it :)

Virgin Atlantic only serve seven routes "east" from London Heathrow - Johannesburg (2x daily), Lagos, Delhi, Hong Kong and Shanghai, with Tel Aviv and Mumbai starting later in the year. Of which the HKG and PVG are targeted at premium passengers, and hence using the B787-9 as its a premium aircraft, and is fuel efficient. In addition, Virgin Atlantic codeshare with Air China on the Shanghai route, allowing some fed; whilst London-Hong Kong has a codeshare with Virgin Australia, plus close cultural ties, with LHR-HKG being the 5th busiest passenger route from LHR.

Onto the other 5 - Johannesburg, Lagos, Delhi, Tel Aviv and Mumbai

These 5 destinations are there to feed US routes. JNB feeds the morning bank, and is at those timings due to complexities with time zones being in a similar time zone to the UK but 12 hours away. DEL/LOS feeds the evening BOS/JFK route, and earlier in the year, British Airways announced Lagos was in the top 5 routes for feed to their JFK route (there's a graphic on airliners.net somewhere). Tel Aviv will feed into the West Coast bank - with good connection times for Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle and Las Vegas, and the new Mumbai route feeding the morning east coast bank - targeting New York JFK, Boston, Detroit (DL), Minneapolis (DL) and Atlanta (DL).

So whats the future for Virgin Atlantic for "east"routes? Premium traffic. Delta partners have good links "west" to USA, and VS serves non-DL hubs but cities which are premium and have high demand for London - such as Washington Dulles, San Francisco, Las Vegas and Miami. In a press release from The Times (UK Newspaper) last month, the new CEO Shai Weiss stated Beijing, Tokyo and Mumbai as being under consideration. Mumbai has been announced. Virgin Atlantic has codeshare with Air China, making it attractive to launch Beijing for connections, and for CA to be able to have a larger presence in London. DL has recently been granted "subject to approval" 5 new rights to Tokyo Haneda from next year. They are developing a mini-focus city at Tokyo Haneda. In addition, the Olympics are in Tokyo next year and is an Alpha++ World City, with high premium flows between London and Tokyo. With Flybe now being under Virgin Atlantic, it also allows greater connections in London. I wouldn't be surprised to see Beijing or Tokyo therefore added to the Virgin Atlantic in 2020.

Whats left? Well, Sao Paulo (GRU) has already been announced by Virgin Atlantic to start in 2020, and this is due to a new codeshare with GOL - which have codeshare with KLM, Air France and Delta, who all own parts of Virgin Atlantic. This takes up all available aircraft, as the A350 is replacing the B747 and A340, leaving Virgin Atlantic to operate A330, A350 and B787.

Whats the future for Virgin Atlantic? Slots are difficult at London Heathrow to obtain, and so premium routes are a priority. In addition, Virgin are only on "east" routes in which BA have more than a daily service from London Heathrow - Johannesburg (BA2, SA1, VS2), Delhi (BA2, AI2, VS1), Hong Kong (BA2, CX5, VS1), Shanghai (BA1.4, MU1, VS1), Tel Aviv (BA2.7, EL1.7, VS1) and Mumbai (BA2, AI1, VS1). The only exception is Lagos (BA1, VS1) but this feeds well and is strong for yields. I do not see any other additions to India possible. If there was a premium market, then I think British Airways would be double-daily to Bengaluru (BLR) and with lack of codeshare partner in BLR, I see the route as very unlikely I am afraid. The only possible route I see VS adding not stated above is shifting 1x JNB to Cape Town (CPT) as both LHR-JNB routes leave/arrive at similar times.

I hope this sums up Virgin Atlantic at the moment. I'm sorry that I don't see VS adding LHR-BLR in the future, but BOM/DEL are very large and more premium markets, which provide connections to different banks, and with a lack of slots, it is difficult for VS to expand anywhere. Should you require any further information, please drop me a DM on Twitter

@SeanM1997

Wishing Virgin Atlantic all the best on this new LHR-BOM route, and hope its a success and is kept in the long term
 
8herveg
Posts: 1348
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 8:00 am

Great detail SeanM1997.

Do you think VS could/would ever serve ICN? They could codeshare with KE?

And what about BKK? I know not much premium traffic, so/but could work from LGW?

They're the only other "east" destinations I could see working from LON, aside from the above you've mentioned.
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 8:07 am

8herveg wrote:
Great detail SeanM1997.

Do you think VS could/would ever serve ICN? They could codeshare with KE?

And what about BKK? I know not much premium traffic, so/but could work from LGW?

They're the only other "east" destinations I could see working from LON, aside from the above you've mentioned.


I don't think ICN. VS/BE have codeshare with KE, and I think its more likely Korean Air metal will be used for LHR-ICN. BA are only on 1x daily B789, so there is not much of a market UK-S Korea but is a larger market from S Korea-UK.

Bangkok does not have enough premium passengers to warrant a direct flight, and there is competition from Thai, EVA and BA which makes it even more unlikely.

I don't see LGW expanding outside of the Virgin Holidays brand. DL will probably use their own aircraft to launch LGW-JFK and LGW-BOS next year.

From LHR, I see Virgin Atlantic launching "east":
Current - Johannesburg, Lagos, Delhi, Shanghai and Hong Kong
Already Announced - Tel Aviv and Mumbai (plus Sao Paulo)
Potential - Cape Town, Beijing and Tokyo

No where else is premium enough for Virgin Atlantic, or don't have code-share partners to feed flights. The only other thing Virgin may consider is launching Moscow, Riyadh or Cairo using BA remedy slots - have the routes for 3 years and then switch it to another route once they've grandfathered rights. This is however unlikely as they already have 12 daily remedy slots for LHR-ABZ/EDI/NQY and so its unlikely they would be given anymore
 
TC957
Posts: 3415
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 8:47 am

LGW - BKK is far more likely to be started by Norwegian if anyone rather than VS.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 1:37 pm

m007j wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
m007j wrote:


What were the negative experiences. Is you accent Indian or American? Why didn't you hold up your passport if you are American? That usually does the trick in ME3.

Airline staff tried to make a quick buck off my parents to check carry-ons that didn't need to be. My parents don't have US passports but I do, I also have an American accent and they don't (but speak English very well). Took the airline guy aside and set him straight by waving my passport in his face, he then said something derogatory in a language he thought I couldn't understand (but of course I could). Told him off again.

That was Dubai, in Doha staff made a stink about having to push my grandmother around (she need a wheelchair as she'd broken her leg). Woman said something highly negative in English assuming no one understood, I told her off in American.

Meanwhile in London and Frankfurt, I've had nothing but positive experiences, staff are always happy to chat and they know to treat (or at least show it) people with a little respect. If I'm traveling 20 hours across the world, I'm not going to want to deal with crap like this from people who are too boneheaded to care about others.

Thanks for the feedback. A good lesson for airlines - you may have a good hard and soft product but if your service is short in areas where it matters the most, you could lose a customer for life
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2047
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 1:55 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:

Onto the other 5 - Johannesburg, Lagos, Delhi, Tel Aviv and Mumbai

These 5 destinations are there to feed US routes. JNB feeds the morning bank, and is at those timings due to complexities with time zones being in a similar time zone to the UK but 12 hours away. DEL/LOS feeds the evening BOS/JFK route, and earlier in the year, British Airways announced Lagos was in the top 5 routes for feed to their JFK route (there's a graphic on airliners.net somewhere). Tel Aviv will feed into the West Coast bank - with good connection times for Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle and Las Vegas, and the new Mumbai route feeding the morning east coast bank - targeting New York JFK, Boston, Detroit (DL), Minneapolis (DL) and Atlanta (DL).


Absent statistics otherwise, I'm not sure this statement is accurate. South Africa, Nigeria, and India all have substantial historic and economic ties to the UK. Look at the amount of service on BA to these destinations. Moreover, for Lagos in particular, remember there was Virgin Nigeria - so Virgin Atlantic has been there a while. TLV, IMO, is catering to UK passengers. Are there significant connections to the US? Probably. But, I don't believe the destinations are there simply to feed the US. Further, part of Virgin Atlantic's brand is providing service to the major economic centers from London (albeit some no longer served, namely, SYD). Finally, I'd note that DL already serves JNB, LOS and TLV.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 2:00 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:

...additionally - I wonder where, perhaps DL could 'funnel' that U.S. bound traffic to, instead of LHR. As is, would not having passengers transit through AMS (and connecting on KLM) not provide as lower costs and help a Skyteam (and a TAJV partner as well) at their core costs? In reality - that would be more akin to how AA and UA serve India - with AA more reliant on their main European partner (coincidentally at LHR, but BA), and how UA relies on LH for secondary Indian destinations. Not a perfect analogy - as UA then also has AI connections, and couple than with Non-Stop Indian flights. Delta was hoping to find that parity (with 9W and the new JFK-BOM), but has to settle as 9W is gone. I don't see then why DL would want to 'right time' VS's LHR-BOM to DL's transatlatic flight - as that reduces appeal (and perhaps viability of) DL's own JFK-BOM, with pricing that DL already masters now (via TAJV partners) if necessary to fill that price sensitive demand. Adding a potential third 'bullet' to that revolver and then also potentially sacrificing the premium traffic's demands on the BOM-LHR segment - is doubly foolish. As is, VS can and should market itself as a premium experience and watch leverage itself to both the LHR, and BOM markets first - focus on costs and drive revenue - before worrying at 'Mama DL' - who will be doing the same, and soon, in concern to BOM.

I agree that the 'concerned parties' do sometimes have some complaints - but considering that in the face of the outright disintegration of 9W, DL and VS have advantageously worked to best serve their needs and their core parties. They could have stumbled, or retreated - and yet, took what they had and worked forward. It is a decently responsive move, and a responsible one at that. Those moves still give them an advantage above AA, and did not leave them last - even in the face of the 'failure' of 9W. Not blaming AA for not being as strong in India, but by as much measure - what DL and VS do at BOM is impressive either way.


In your opinion, will VS start BLR from LHR?


I know this question wasn't for me, but thought I would answer it :)

Virgin Atlantic only serve seven routes "east" from London Heathrow - Johannesburg (2x daily), Lagos, Delhi, Hong Kong and Shanghai, with Tel Aviv and Mumbai starting later in the year. Of which the HKG and PVG are targeted at premium passengers, and hence using the B787-9 as its a premium aircraft, and is fuel efficient. In addition, Virgin Atlantic codeshare with Air China on the Shanghai route, allowing some fed; whilst London-Hong Kong has a codeshare with Virgin Australia, plus close cultural ties, with LHR-HKG being the 5th busiest passenger route from LHR.

Onto the other 5 - Johannesburg, Lagos, Delhi, Tel Aviv and Mumbai

These 5 destinations are there to feed US routes. JNB feeds the morning bank, and is at those timings due to complexities with time zones being in a similar time zone to the UK but 12 hours away. DEL/LOS feeds the evening BOS/JFK route, and earlier in the year, British Airways announced Lagos was in the top 5 routes for feed to their JFK route (there's a graphic on airliners.net somewhere). Tel Aviv will feed into the West Coast bank - with good connection times for Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle and Las Vegas, and the new Mumbai route feeding the morning east coast bank - targeting New York JFK, Boston, Detroit (DL), Minneapolis (DL) and Atlanta (DL).

So whats the future for Virgin Atlantic for "east"routes? Premium traffic. Delta partners have good links "west" to USA, and VS serves non-DL hubs but cities which are premium and have high demand for London - such as Washington Dulles, San Francisco, Las Vegas and Miami. In a press release from The Times (UK Newspaper) last month, the new CEO Shai Weiss stated Beijing, Tokyo and Mumbai as being under consideration. Mumbai has been announced. Virgin Atlantic has codeshare with Air China, making it attractive to launch Beijing for connections, and for CA to be able to have a larger presence in London. DL has recently been granted "subject to approval" 5 new rights to Tokyo Haneda from next year. They are developing a mini-focus city at Tokyo Haneda. In addition, the Olympics are in Tokyo next year and is an Alpha++ World City, with high premium flows between London and Tokyo. With Flybe now being under Virgin Atlantic, it also allows greater connections in London. I wouldn't be surprised to see Beijing or Tokyo therefore added to the Virgin Atlantic in 2020.

Whats left? Well, Sao Paulo (GRU) has already been announced by Virgin Atlantic to start in 2020, and this is due to a new codeshare with GOL - which have codeshare with KLM, Air France and Delta, who all own parts of Virgin Atlantic. This takes up all available aircraft, as the A350 is replacing the B747 and A340, leaving Virgin Atlantic to operate A330, A350 and B787.

Whats the future for Virgin Atlantic? Slots are difficult at London Heathrow to obtain, and so premium routes are a priority. In addition, Virgin are only on "east" routes in which BA have more than a daily service from London Heathrow - Johannesburg (BA2, SA1, VS2), Delhi (BA2, AI2, VS1), Hong Kong (BA2, CX5, VS1), Shanghai (BA1.4, MU1, VS1), Tel Aviv (BA2.7, EL1.7, VS1) and Mumbai (BA2, AI1, VS1). The only exception is Lagos (BA1, VS1) but this feeds well and is strong for yields. I do not see any other additions to India possible. If there was a premium market, then I think British Airways would be double-daily to Bengaluru (BLR) and with lack of codeshare partner in BLR, I see the route as very unlikely I am afraid. The only possible route I see VS adding not stated above is shifting 1x JNB to Cape Town (CPT) as both LHR-JNB routes leave/arrive at similar times.

I hope this sums up Virgin Atlantic at the moment. I'm sorry that I don't see VS adding LHR-BLR in the future, but BOM/DEL are very large and more premium markets, which provide connections to different banks, and with a lack of slots, it is difficult for VS to expand anywhere. Should you require any further information, please drop me a DM on Twitter

@SeanM1997

Wishing Virgin Atlantic all the best on this new LHR-BOM route, and hope its a success and is kept in the long term

Superb analysis and response! You are the best!
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 2:04 pm

edealinfo wrote:
SeanM1997 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

In your opinion, will VS start BLR from LHR?


I know this question wasn't for me, but thought I would answer it :)

Virgin Atlantic only serve seven routes "east" from London Heathrow - Johannesburg (2x daily), Lagos, Delhi, Hong Kong and Shanghai, with Tel Aviv and Mumbai starting later in the year. Of which the HKG and PVG are targeted at premium passengers, and hence using the B787-9 as its a premium aircraft, and is fuel efficient. In addition, Virgin Atlantic codeshare with Air China on the Shanghai route, allowing some fed; whilst London-Hong Kong has a codeshare with Virgin Australia, plus close cultural ties, with LHR-HKG being the 5th busiest passenger route from LHR.

Onto the other 5 - Johannesburg, Lagos, Delhi, Tel Aviv and Mumbai

These 5 destinations are there to feed US routes. JNB feeds the morning bank, and is at those timings due to complexities with time zones being in a similar time zone to the UK but 12 hours away. DEL/LOS feeds the evening BOS/JFK route, and earlier in the year, British Airways announced Lagos was in the top 5 routes for feed to their JFK route (there's a graphic on airliners.net somewhere). Tel Aviv will feed into the West Coast bank - with good connection times for Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle and Las Vegas, and the new Mumbai route feeding the morning east coast bank - targeting New York JFK, Boston, Detroit (DL), Minneapolis (DL) and Atlanta (DL).

So whats the future for Virgin Atlantic for "east"routes? Premium traffic. Delta partners have good links "west" to USA, and VS serves non-DL hubs but cities which are premium and have high demand for London - such as Washington Dulles, San Francisco, Las Vegas and Miami. In a press release from The Times (UK Newspaper) last month, the new CEO Shai Weiss stated Beijing, Tokyo and Mumbai as being under consideration. Mumbai has been announced. Virgin Atlantic has codeshare with Air China, making it attractive to launch Beijing for connections, and for CA to be able to have a larger presence in London. DL has recently been granted "subject to approval" 5 new rights to Tokyo Haneda from next year. They are developing a mini-focus city at Tokyo Haneda. In addition, the Olympics are in Tokyo next year and is an Alpha++ World City, with high premium flows between London and Tokyo. With Flybe now being under Virgin Atlantic, it also allows greater connections in London. I wouldn't be surprised to see Beijing or Tokyo therefore added to the Virgin Atlantic in 2020.

Whats left? Well, Sao Paulo (GRU) has already been announced by Virgin Atlantic to start in 2020, and this is due to a new codeshare with GOL - which have codeshare with KLM, Air France and Delta, who all own parts of Virgin Atlantic. This takes up all available aircraft, as the A350 is replacing the B747 and A340, leaving Virgin Atlantic to operate A330, A350 and B787.

Whats the future for Virgin Atlantic? Slots are difficult at London Heathrow to obtain, and so premium routes are a priority. In addition, Virgin are only on "east" routes in which BA have more than a daily service from London Heathrow - Johannesburg (BA2, SA1, VS2), Delhi (BA2, AI2, VS1), Hong Kong (BA2, CX5, VS1), Shanghai (BA1.4, MU1, VS1), Tel Aviv (BA2.7, EL1.7, VS1) and Mumbai (BA2, AI1, VS1). The only exception is Lagos (BA1, VS1) but this feeds well and is strong for yields. I do not see any other additions to India possible. If there was a premium market, then I think British Airways would be double-daily to Bengaluru (BLR) and with lack of codeshare partner in BLR, I see the route as very unlikely I am afraid. The only possible route I see VS adding not stated above is shifting 1x JNB to Cape Town (CPT) as both LHR-JNB routes leave/arrive at similar times.

I hope this sums up Virgin Atlantic at the moment. I'm sorry that I don't see VS adding LHR-BLR in the future, but BOM/DEL are very large and more premium markets, which provide connections to different banks, and with a lack of slots, it is difficult for VS to expand anywhere. Should you require any further information, please drop me a DM on Twitter

@SeanM1997

Wishing Virgin Atlantic all the best on this new LHR-BOM route, and hope its a success and is kept in the long term

Superb analysis and response! You are the best!


Thank you - I'm more available on Twitter so if you want to know more just ask me on there - SeanM1997
 
x1234
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 3:56 pm

SeanM1997, VS should return to Tokyo but only if they can get HND slots as HND is higher yielding than PEK/ICN.
 
TC957
Posts: 3415
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 4:59 pm

x1234 wrote:
SeanM1997, VS should return to Tokyo but only if they can get HND slots as HND is higher yielding than PEK/ICN.

Agree totally, but it'll be the LHR slots that will be a hurdle to overcome as well. If VS can add HND and time the flight to connect onto their new GRU flight next year that would be a bonus too.
 
aarbee
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 5:17 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Actually, he is right. Nobody understands the number of cultural expectations of some (not all) Indians until they actually go there. There is a sentiment of not wanting to travel on "middle eastern" carriers and with some older Indians even the British carriers as both regions have oppressed Indians at some point in time or in the case of Qatar/Bahrain/Kuwait and arguably the UAE continue to do so.


Ahem! That's news to me.

Before ME3 advances in India, BA used to be carrier of choice.


Agreed BA First Class was the preference of Bollywood and industrialists in the past. Have no idea how they are doing now except that BA still seems to send premium heavy planes to BOM/DEL/BLR

Key reasons were also language familiarity for Indian travelers and awareness of Indian people among the BA staff.

In NO way I'm trying to imply the dreaded "R" word and PLEASE don't take it in that direction, but 80s and before LH, AZ, AF, KL, SR, et. al. staff were not that conversant with sub-continental people. The food was also another issue. Again not berating any food, but more of a cultural unawareness, As late as 1996 I got Shrimp salad in Vegetarian meal.

Those issues were lesser with BA back then.
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 5:29 pm

m007j wrote:
aarbee wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Actually, he is right. Nobody understands the number of cultural expectations of some (not all) Indians until they actually go there. There is a sentiment of not wanting to travel on "middle eastern" carriers and with some older Indians even the British carriers as both regions have oppressed Indians at some point in time or in the case of Qatar/Bahrain/Kuwait and arguably the UAE continue to do so.


Ahem! That's news to me.

Before ME3 advances in India, BA used to be carrier of choice.


Agreed, I'd think BA is still the carrier of choice of a lot of the diaspora here in the US. It's more so apparent in the south of India, no Indian airline flies direct from the south to Europe and beyond, BA, LH, AF, and the ME3 cover this segment well. And after some negative experiences transiting through Dubai and Doha, my entire family is much more likely to fly European. Let's just say the attitude changed very quickly when they heard my accent...

That's what I was alluding to in the Jet Airways shutdown thread, that it missed the boat in creating new markets. Absolute focus on BOM/DEL/LON/NYC what anybody and everybody does. ME3 got more customers by creating new markets.

Personally my frequency of visiting India has increased 2-3 times in past few years because of US-ME3-SmallCity services.
Love the AIXes
 
A321200
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:41 am

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 5:37 pm

Wouldn't it make sense to route connecting passengers through the likes of MAN if LHR (and AMS&CDG if the JV is viewed as a whole) are all full and facing slot constraints? As someone mentioned previously, VS were handling a respectable number of transfer passengers through MAN onto their US services when Jet was around. Now that MAN is being redeveloped and Flybe have a more extensive network here rather than LHR, I wonder whether it will feature more in future plans?
 
aarbee
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 5:39 pm

m007j wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
m007j wrote:


What were the negative experiences. Is you accent Indian or American? Why didn't you hold up your passport if you are American? That usually does the trick in ME3.

Airline staff tried to make a quick buck off my parents to check carry-ons that didn't need to be. My parents don't have US passports but I do, I also have an American accent and they don't (but speak English very well). Took the airline guy aside and set him straight by waving my passport in his face, he then said something derogatory in a language he thought I couldn't understand (but of course I could). Told him off again.

That was Dubai, in Doha staff made a stink about having to push my grandmother around (she need a wheelchair as she'd broken her leg). Woman said something highly negative in English assuming no one understood, I told her off in American.

Meanwhile in London and Frankfurt, I've had nothing but positive experiences, staff are always happy to chat and they know to treat (or at least show it) people with a little respect. If I'm traveling 20 hours across the world, I'm not going to want to deal with crap like this from people who are too boneheaded to care about others.


My experiences have been quite reverse. Derogatory stuff is a absolute NO NO.

Most of the times the all the airlines have tried to get my one of my carry on (at no charge). Especially in India and ME.
Love the AIXes
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 825
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 5:49 pm

A321200 wrote:
Wouldn't it make sense to route connecting passengers through the likes of MAN if LHR (and AMS&CDG if the JV is viewed as a whole) are all full and facing slot constraints? As someone mentioned previously, VS were handling a respectable number of transfer passengers through MAN onto their US services when Jet was around. Now that MAN is being redeveloped and Flybe have a more extensive network here rather than LHR, I wonder whether it will feature more in future plans?


I think that is coming further down the pipeline.

The court documents relating to the acquisition of FlyBe and also Virgin Atlantic’s annual report referred to the development of an enhanced presence at Manchester and Heathrow.

Virgin Atlantic have a number of issues to address and are, quite reasonably, treating Heathrow as the priority. Take this for example, the demise of Jet left a gap in their network which they are filling. It’s a relatively binary decision.

I expect Manchester will follow over the coming years, but there are a lot of moving pieces right now. For example, the need to decide what to do with Virgin Connect (when it rebrands from FlyBe) and they may also acquire Thomas Cook’s long haul arm. The outcome of one affects the other, so they might be waiting to see where Thomas Cook ends up before making any strategic decisions (eg they are almost certainly going to need more aircraft). This takes time and is less central to VS’s business but I’m sire they’ll get there in the end.
 
mattpawlow
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:28 am

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 6:04 pm

A quick note on the DEL flight timings --

The DEL flight does very well for both o/d and connecting travelers. Now is a bit more fluid because of the Pakistani air space closure resulting in VS301 getting in ~20:00 and later consistently, but historically VS has at times held VS25 (JFK) and VS17 (EWR - before this flight was canned) if VS301 was late, due to the high connecting traffic. Airlines like BA and AI benefit from having the slots where they can offer both an AM and PM BOM/DEL flight from LHR. VS does not though so at the very lowest level that explains the differences in timings (another Q altogether is which approach would be preferred by VS -- overnight TATL connecting to AM India flight, or daytime TATL connecting to PM India flight).
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: VS announce BOM return

Wed May 22, 2019 10:22 pm

edealinfo wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:


Wouldn't EK offer similiar # of miles on J class to India as that of DL?


No I am not an elite on EK so I wont get the bonuses. On DL I am a diamond so get 11X every dollar spent *a non elite gets 5X). I also want to keep my status on DL, so I always book long flights on their partners to keep earning status miles. I don’t know anyone at work who has or cares to have status on EK. Not on their radar. Not saying there aren’t people in the US that want EK status, just saying most Americans who fly a lot tend to be elites on one the US3.

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