Sooner787
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 2:00 pm

I'm sure you'll see Gary Kelly riding a WN Max 8 on the first day of service as well as Doug Parker on AA.

Ironic thing is Parker will hear more about the tiny bathrooms on their Max's than any safety issue,
especially from the cabin crew :)
 
Yossarian22
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 2:07 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
caljn wrote:
Pardon my naivete but is there not an inherent problem with the new engine placement that was the need for the MCAS in the first place?
Is it something that is a rare event or is the instability always there for the MCAS to adjust?
I flew on a UA 737-9MAX and recall being rather impressed overall...and hope to again without second thought.
Thank you.


I flew on a WN 3M8 last summer and was impressed with that bird. I'd be comfortable flying a MAX when it comes back into service.


Well, if some random guy on the internet had a normal flight which left him “impressed”, it must be a good design.
 
yabeweb
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 2:23 pm

Some people will fall for this kind o PR, and while it is nice to see a C.E.O. putting the face and his bum where is mouth is, it proves nothing.

That flight will be very different from the millions of other flights, with all eyes there and the best pilots, egineers and technician on board, of course that flight will be a smooth ride.
1 smooth ride will prove what? not much as the Max had plenty of "safe" flights before the accident, and just because nothing happen on that particular flight does not prove anything.
Nope won't seat on a Max for as long as I can, it is simply a not so well thought out plane.
 
planecane
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 2:28 pm

EChid wrote:
canyonblue17 wrote:
EChid wrote:
Statistically, I don't believe it's possible for the MAX to be the safest plane in the sky at this point. At least not for many, many, many, many, years and many many more sales. In fact, it'll be a while before it can be considered safer than the NG.

But it will be fine, and safe enough.


The 737 - in all its forms - has proven to be around for many, many, many, many years (including those with rudder issues). And as far as sales goes...thousands to come.

Not arguing that it's not proven (although the MAX isn't - yet), but it's not the safest plane in the sky. That honour goes to the likes of the 777, A380, etc.


When looking at hull loss statistics, it's hard to declare the long range widebodies as safer than the 737 or A320 because the latter two have so many more departures due to shorter duration flights and many times more units in service. As of the data through 2017, the A380 hadn't reached 1 million departures yet and the stats are done per million departures.

If you base safety on hull loss accident rate, and only consider aircraft with more than 1 million departures, the safest planes are the 717 and CRJ700/900/1000 series. They are followed by the 737NG (.17 per 1M departures) and the A320CEO series (.21 per million departures).

The MAX can never statistically be the safest plane in the sky unless you qualify it with a beginning date as long as there are no 717 or CRJ700/900/1000 hull losses. It's hard to say how many departures there have been of the MAX. Even if it was 0.5 million, currently the hull loss accident rate is 4 per million departures which is similar to the rates of the DC8, F28 and MD-11, but at least still half that of the 707/720.
 
musman9853
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 2:30 pm

OB1504 wrote:
Moose135 wrote:
Doug Parker was on the NBC nightly network news tonight, and said much the same - if his pilots feel it is safe, he and his family would fly on the MAX.


The airplane was in service for over a year and he never flew on it. I think even he knows how sorry the hard product is on his MAXes.


It's really not that bad.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
kalvado
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 2:33 pm

planecane wrote:
EChid wrote:
canyonblue17 wrote:

The 737 - in all its forms - has proven to be around for many, many, many, many years (including those with rudder issues). And as far as sales goes...thousands to come.

Not arguing that it's not proven (although the MAX isn't - yet), but it's not the safest plane in the sky. That honour goes to the likes of the 777, A380, etc.


When looking at hull loss statistics, it's hard to declare the long range widebodies as safer than the 737 or A320 because the latter two have so many more departures due to shorter duration flights and many times more units in service. As of the data through 2017, the A380 hadn't reached 1 million departures yet and the stats are done per million departures.

If you base safety on hull loss accident rate, and only consider aircraft with more than 1 million departures, the safest planes are the 717 and CRJ700/900/1000 series. They are followed by the 737NG (.17 per 1M departures) and the A320CEO series (.21 per million departures).

The MAX can never statistically be the safest plane in the sky unless you qualify it with a beginning date as long as there are no 717 or CRJ700/900/1000 hull losses. It's hard to say how many departures there have been of the MAX. Even if it was 0.5 million, currently the hull loss accident rate is 4 per million departures which is similar to the rates of the DC8, F28 and MD-11, but at least still half that of the 707/720.

Half a million departures is probably too high of a number for MAX; 200-300k is more like it, making your last comparison a closer match
 
planecane
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 2:37 pm

kalvado wrote:
planecane wrote:
EChid wrote:
Not arguing that it's not proven (although the MAX isn't - yet), but it's not the safest plane in the sky. That honour goes to the likes of the 777, A380, etc.


When looking at hull loss statistics, it's hard to declare the long range widebodies as safer than the 737 or A320 because the latter two have so many more departures due to shorter duration flights and many times more units in service. As of the data through 2017, the A380 hadn't reached 1 million departures yet and the stats are done per million departures.

If you base safety on hull loss accident rate, and only consider aircraft with more than 1 million departures, the safest planes are the 717 and CRJ700/900/1000 series. They are followed by the 737NG (.17 per 1M departures) and the A320CEO series (.21 per million departures).

The MAX can never statistically be the safest plane in the sky unless you qualify it with a beginning date as long as there are no 717 or CRJ700/900/1000 hull losses. It's hard to say how many departures there have been of the MAX. Even if it was 0.5 million, currently the hull loss accident rate is 4 per million departures which is similar to the rates of the DC8, F28 and MD-11, but at least still half that of the 707/720.

Half a million departures is probably too high of a number for MAX; 200-300k is more like it, making your last comparison a closer match

You are probably right. I was trying to swag based on Southwest having a little under 10% of the total in service and publicly stating 41,000 flights before the grounding. They probably have more flights per day than most so the estimate of total flights is probably more like 300k.
 
Elementalism
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 2:38 pm

N809FR wrote:
Never had the chance to grab a MAX (or NEO for that matter) flight before the grounding, hoping once they get back in the air to catch one.


I fly into MDW a couple times a month on Southwest. In march I thought we were on a MAX. I was so excited. The safety info showed 737-800\MAX-8. But where we were sitting I could not see the engines well. And from the terminal they were also blocked. Sadly turned out to be a really clean\refurbed -800. I am excited to try one out once they are back in the air.
 
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diverdave
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 2:45 pm

yabeweb wrote:
Considering how Airbus (in a smart way i should add) did not take advantage of the situation, it would not be smart to antagonize them.


They have not taken advantage publicly, but of course that would have been seen as wildly inappropriate.

Privately? Who knows.......
 
planecane
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 2:45 pm

rjmf22 wrote:
United CEO Oscar Munoz states that he will be on the first flight on the MAX when it returns to service. He also states that customers an change their flights for free if they are unwilling to fly on the max

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... story.html

Is there going to be a huge backlash when the MAX returns?


To minimize the backlash, all that is necessary in today's social media based, 10 minute news cycle world is to trickle the MAX back into service. When they first reenter service there will be news and people will have it on their mind to ask. If UA, AA and WN, for example, only put 3 or 4 into service right away they will only deal with potentially a few hundred concerns a day. Then, 2 weeks later add a few more and finally a month after the grounding is lifted return the rest.

After a month of being back in service and out of the news, there will be very few people outside of avgeeks that even think about it anymore.

If they put them all back in service on day 1, then their customer service agents will have a nightmare on their hands. For the first few days, many people will have issues. Some will just be taking advantage. Let's say UA has a EWR to FLL flight on a max for $80 at 5 AM and another one on a 737-900 at 10:30 AM for $200, somebody that wants to fly later can book the 5AM flight and then call and say they just realized they booked a MAX flight and are uncomfortable flying and get rebooked on the more expensive flight.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 2:46 pm

Elementalism wrote:
N809FR wrote:
Never had the chance to grab a MAX (or NEO for that matter) flight before the grounding, hoping once they get back in the air to catch one.


I fly into MDW a couple times a month on Southwest. In march I thought we were on a MAX. I was so excited. The safety info showed 737-800\MAX-8. But where we were sitting I could not see the engines well. And from the terminal they were also blocked. Sadly turned out to be a really clean\refurbed -800. I am excited to try one out once they are back in the air.

I will fly one in a heartbeat. I really hope for more TCON or West coast to Hawaii flights due to the type's added range.

I would fly on one without a second thought. If other passengers book away, that is less I must spend.

Yet somehow the DC-10 kept flying...
This will hurt MAX sales. Cest la vie.

Lightsaber
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BravoOne
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 2:49 pm

Well you know its just a matter of time before another MAX has an incident/accident of some sort, but totally unrelated to MCAS. The real test is to see how the traveling public reacts to that as the media will be all over it with their typical misinformation and bombastic headlines.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 3:00 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Well you know its just a matter of time before another MAX has an incident/accident of some sort, but totally unrelated to MCAS. The real test is to see how the traveling public reacts to that as the media will be all over it with their typical misinformation and bombastic headlines.


If it happens within 6 months the MAX is done. If it happens 10 years down the road the grounding will be a side note and most people will hardly remember.

If the reevaluation and recertification process is done properly and I guess it will as too much is at stake there will be no crash or incodent in the next 5 to 10 years.
 
kalvado
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 3:06 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Well you know its just a matter of time before another MAX has an incident/accident of some sort, but totally unrelated to MCAS. The real test is to see how the traveling public reacts to that as the media will be all over it with their typical misinformation and bombastic headlines.

Real test is when that happens. Roughly speaking, we currently have 1 crash in 10-20 million flights for modern jets. So far, MAX revealed a problem which caused the figure to go up by a factor of 100. If something happens within next 10 million flights (3-5 years), it is one thing; crash after long term safe record is the other. If MAX is truly a step forward, I would expect at least 5-7 years without serious airplane-related accidents (crew issues like CFIT is a different story). ANd I would say that Boeing and MAX should be on probation for a few years, with any problems getting extra scrutiny from regulators.
 
planecane
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 3:10 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Well you know its just a matter of time before another MAX has an incident/accident of some sort, but totally unrelated to MCAS. The real test is to see how the traveling public reacts to that as the media will be all over it with their typical misinformation and bombastic headlines.


If it happens within 6 months the MAX is done. If it happens 10 years down the road the grounding will be a side note and most people will hardly remember.

If the reevaluation and recertification process is done properly and I guess it will as too much is at stake there will be no crash or incodent in the next 5 to 10 years.

No amount of reevaluation or recertification will prevent a crew from trying to land in weather that they shouldn't or flying into a mountain. An accident may have nothing to do with the aircraft at all but happen within 6 months of ungrounding.
 
Bricktop
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 3:10 pm

Yossarian22 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
caljn wrote:
Pardon my naivete but is there not an inherent problem with the new engine placement that was the need for the MCAS in the first place?
Is it something that is a rare event or is the instability always there for the MCAS to adjust?
I flew on a UA 737-9MAX and recall being rather impressed overall...and hope to again without second thought.
Thank you.


I flew on a WN 3M8 last summer and was impressed with that bird. I'd be comfortable flying a MAX when it comes back into service.


Well, if some random guy on the internet had a normal flight which left him “impressed”, it must be a good design.

He doesn't speak for you, but nor does he claim to.

We have random guys saying 3-3-3 on a 787 is a torture chamber, but this random guy (moi) says he's flown TATL a dozen times on a 3-3-3 787 and it was perfectly fine.
The world is made up of reviews from "random guys" these days, so what's your point exactly, beyond snark?
 
FluidFlow
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 3:15 pm

planecane wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Well you know its just a matter of time before another MAX has an incident/accident of some sort, but totally unrelated to MCAS. The real test is to see how the traveling public reacts to that as the media will be all over it with their typical misinformation and bombastic headlines.


If it happens within 6 months the MAX is done. If it happens 10 years down the road the grounding will be a side note and most people will hardly remember.

If the reevaluation and recertification process is done properly and I guess it will as too much is at stake there will be no crash or incodent in the next 5 to 10 years.

No amount of reevaluation or recertification will prevent a crew from trying to land in weather that they shouldn't or flying into a mountain. An accident may have nothing to do with the aircraft at all but happen within 6 months of ungrounding.


Sorry I really have to text more clearly but on the mobile I always try to be as quick as possible.

I meant aircraft related incident. There are always hidden flaws but most of them are revealed years later because all the obvious ones get discovered and fixed beforehand due to certification. If there is another major design flaw like MCAS that is overlooked, there will be an incident rather short.

If a pilot tries a stunt on a runway with 200mm water on top, yeah then it is clearly not Boeings or the FAAs fault.
 
Austin787
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 3:19 pm

Boeing's CEO should fly on future 737MAX flights.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 3:20 pm

The engine placement led to needing MCAS, yes. The issue was that MCAS was based on a single AoA sensor, which is in hindsight (and should have been foresight), a profoundly stupid decision.


As I understand it, the size and placement of the engines led to a nose pitch up situation. That nose pitch up situation was what led to MCAS being needed in the first place. The reliance upon a single AOS sensor exacerbated the problem. Am I correct in this view? I'm not a pilot so I"m not going to try to ignorantly toss around aerodynamic nouns and buzzwords, but I think what I said is correct in simplistic terms.

Now, if what ai said is correct, then did Boeing deliver a somewhat unstable aircraft? If so, what are the accepted margins of stability or instability for commercial aircraft? Curious...

Bob
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 3:22 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
planecane wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:

If a pilot tries a stunt on a runway with 200mm water on top, yeah then it is clearly not Boeings or the FAAs fault.


That's as may be, but the press will still tear Boeing to shreds, along with the FAA, and also manage to blame it on Trump if he is in office when the incident takes place.

Why? Because it will sell newspapers, or get eyeballs on TV screens. Facts have nothing to do with it.
Remember: Only one dwarf in seven is Happy.
 
Galwayman
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 3:32 pm

You can’t polish a turd . American consumers might fall for the PR but it will always be a health and safety turd to the global aviation community , democratic governments and international travellers
 
Elementalism
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 3:47 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
The engine placement led to needing MCAS, yes. The issue was that MCAS was based on a single AoA sensor, which is in hindsight (and should have been foresight), a profoundly stupid decision.


As I understand it, the size and placement of the engines led to a nose pitch up situation. That nose pitch up situation was what led to MCAS being needed in the first place. The reliance upon a single AOS sensor exacerbated the problem. Am I correct in this view? I'm not a pilot so I"m not going to try to ignorantly toss around aerodynamic nouns and buzzwords, but I think what I said is correct in simplistic terms.

Now, if what ai said is correct, then did Boeing deliver a somewhat unstable aircraft? If so, what are the accepted margins of stability or instability for commercial aircraft? Curious...

Bob



Aircraft is stable.
In certain high AOA situation engines can provide lift which makes the nose pitch or feel lighter to pilots. MCAS designed to auto pitch so it feels like a 737 NG
Engine placement cause pitch up which MCAS can also help make feel like NG. It should be noted this is not a unique feel to the 737MAX. High thrust forward engines cause this across a line of aircraft. MCAS is there to make it feel like the NG.
Boeing implementation of MCAS was problematic and horrible. Allowed for a single sensor option. And allowed it to max pitch down. Software is fixing the capability of MCAS by limiting its ability to drive an aircraft into the ground. And the crew to more readily know it has been activate and disable it if needed.
 
Bricktop
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 3:54 pm

Galwayman wrote:
You can’t polish a turd . American consumers might fall for the PR but it will always be a health and safety turd to the global aviation community , democratic governments and international travellers

In the words of John McEnroe, you can't be serious.

Yeah, those dumb undemocratic Americans will fall for anything. But the sophisticated "international travellers" won't. Let's see how your absurd theory holds when Ryanair takes the MAX-8. They fly empty? Bankrupt the airline? Utter garbage.
 
planecane
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Something else that would help greatly. A week or two after the ungrounding, Boeing should rebrand it as the 737ECO or something. That will reduce the percentage of people that even realize what they are flying on to miniscule after a month.
 
Brandon757
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 4:18 pm

I put myself in the group of "let me see how it goes for the first year after reentering service." Once all the aircraft have been returned to their airlines for service I will wait a year to see if there are any issues (I pray there are not). After that first year my comfort level in flying on a MAX will go up.
 
MontaukMonster
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 4:37 pm

This man has BALLS of STEEL
 
yabeweb
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 5:14 pm

diverdave wrote:
yabeweb wrote:
Considering how Airbus (in a smart way i should add) did not take advantage of the situation, it would not be smart to antagonize them.


They have not taken advantage publicly, but of course that would have been seen as wildly inappropriate.

Privately? Who knows.......

Well I was referring to Boeing playing that car d publicly as suggested in an airshow.

So now you are blaming Airbus for something they could have done, even if there's no proof of that? WOW talk about anti Airbus.

Airbus was a class act in this case, and played it smart, they know better that it could have happened to them s well, they also need Boeing to be successfull.
 
wv399
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 5:20 pm

CX747 wrote:
Good on Munoz.

As for will there be backlash....people vote with their pocket books. Maybe a few in the first few weeks will change but overall no real backlash.


You're exactly right. If a MAX flight is $1 less, that's the one people will choose. Most won't know or care what kind of plane they're flying on.
 
airzona11
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 5:34 pm

wv399 wrote:
CX747 wrote:
Good on Munoz.

As for will there be backlash....people vote with their pocket books. Maybe a few in the first few weeks will change but overall no real backlash.


You're exactly right. If a MAX flight is $1 less, that's the one people will choose. Most won't know or care what kind of plane they're flying on.


The interior is better and the engines quieter, so they would be getting a better experience for less money!
 
bennett123
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 5:51 pm

IMO, this will have a big effect on passengers.

It is easy for the CEO to say that the MAX is safe, riding the first flight demonstrates that he believes that it is safe.
 
EChid
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 6:09 pm

planecane wrote:
EChid wrote:
canyonblue17 wrote:

The 737 - in all its forms - has proven to be around for many, many, many, many years (including those with rudder issues). And as far as sales goes...thousands to come.

Not arguing that it's not proven (although the MAX isn't - yet), but it's not the safest plane in the sky. That honour goes to the likes of the 777, A380, etc.


When looking at hull loss statistics, it's hard to declare the long range widebodies as safer than the 737 or A320 because the latter two have so many more departures due to shorter duration flights and many times more units in service. As of the data through 2017, the A380 hadn't reached 1 million departures yet and the stats are done per million departures.

If you base safety on hull loss accident rate, and only consider aircraft with more than 1 million departures, the safest planes are the 717 and CRJ700/900/1000 series. They are followed by the 737NG (.17 per 1M departures) and the A320CEO series (.21 per million departures).

The MAX can never statistically be the safest plane in the sky unless you qualify it with a beginning date as long as there are no 717 or CRJ700/900/1000 hull losses. It's hard to say how many departures there have been of the MAX. Even if it was 0.5 million, currently the hull loss accident rate is 4 per million departures which is similar to the rates of the DC8, F28 and MD-11, but at least still half that of the 707/720.

Ooooh, this is the kind of fun number crunching I was hoping someone would do. Thank you!
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 8:46 pm

Yossarian22 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
caljn wrote:
Pardon my naivete but is there not an inherent problem with the new engine placement that was the need for the MCAS in the first place?
Is it something that is a rare event or is the instability always there for the MCAS to adjust?
I flew on a UA 737-9MAX and recall being rather impressed overall...and hope to again without second thought.
Thank you.


I flew on a WN 3M8 last summer and was impressed with that bird. I'd be comfortable flying a MAX when it comes back into service.


Well, if some random guy on the internet had a normal flight which left him “impressed”, it must be a good design.


This random guy is also entitled to express an opinion even if it doesn't support the perceived narrative.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
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Sooner787
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Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 9:45 pm

planecane wrote:
Something else that would help greatly. A week or two after the ungrounding, Boeing should rebrand it as the 737ECO or something. That will reduce the percentage of people that even realize what they are flying on to miniscule after a month.


Scott Hamilton suggested couple weeks back rebranding the Max's as Boeing 737-7Advanced / 737-8 Advanced / 737-9 Advanced / 737-10Advanced

Boeing has used that name in their past

Think Boeing would be wise to consider ditchin the "Max" moniker asap
 
sccutler
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 10:13 pm

I'd fly in one tomorrow.

The worst blood here is not on Boeing's hands - it is on the hands of the LionAir crew prior to the accident flight.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3588
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 10:17 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
n562wn wrote:
Antarius wrote:

The engine placement led to needing MCAS, yes. The issue was that MCAS was based on a single AoA sensor, which is in hindsight (and should have been foresight), a profoundly stupid decision.

The fix is towards updating the MCAS system to use both AoA sensors and return control to the pilots in the event of a disagreement (at a high level)


This is the most succinct and non emotional summation on the topic of the Max that I've seen on this site.

I should also add that to my knowledge a lot of aircraft use computers to compensate for aerodynamic instabilities. Isn't the A340 one of them? I believe the MD11 used fuel transfer to keep the aircraft balanced during cruise.



The MD11 use an system known as LSAS. Logitudinal Stability Augmentation System. It was independent of the fuel transfer system.
 
speedbird52
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 10:33 pm

BlueSky1976 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
[Define "proven safe". :roll:


No MCAS - related disaster for at least 5 years since service re-entry.
I value my precious life, actually.

And yes, I WILL go out of my way to avoid 737 MAX until then.

I trust you will not be driving to the airport then
 
speedbird52
Posts: 769
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 10:34 pm

Galwayman wrote:
You can’t polish a turd . American consumers might fall for the PR but it will always be a health and safety turd to the global aviation community , democratic governments and international travellers

Because the 737 MAX was secretly a North Korean sleeper agent! I knew i!
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 632
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 10:51 pm

If I were an airline with the 737 MAX, I would bring back some incentives to get people to fly the route such as complimentary checked bags, hot meals, alcohol, etc.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 10:53 pm

Austin787 wrote:
Boeing's CEO should fly on future 737MAX flights.


He already has...
 
N809FR
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:10 am

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 10:56 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
planecane wrote:
Something else that would help greatly. A week or two after the ungrounding, Boeing should rebrand it as the 737ECO or something. That will reduce the percentage of people that even realize what they are flying on to miniscule after a month.


Scott Hamilton suggested couple weeks back rebranding the Max's as Boeing 737-7Advanced / 737-8 Advanced / 737-9 Advanced / 737-10Advanced

Boeing has used that name in their past

Think Boeing would be wise to consider ditchin the "Max" moniker asap

I think it would be simpler, and far less annoying, to just call them -7/-8/-9/-10. I understand Airbus can’t really drop the NEO name but I think they’re both pretty stupid, NEO and MAX.
 
Bradin
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 10:57 pm

caljn wrote:
Pardon my naivete but is there not an inherent problem with the new engine placement that was the need for the MCAS in the first place?
Is it something that is a rare event or is the instability always there for the MCAS to adjust?
I flew on a UA 737-9MAX and recall being rather impressed overall...and hope to again without second thought.
Thank you.


They moved the engines forward at least once before the 737 MAXes.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3931
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 11:02 pm

rjmf22 wrote:
United CEO Oscar Munoz states that he will be on the first flight on the MAX when it returns to service. He also states that customers an change their flights for free if they are unwilling to fly on the max

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... story.html

Is there going to be a huge backlash when the MAX returns?

Only from the Uninformed or Ignorant and Stupid. .
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3931
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 11:06 pm

If the Customers don't want to fly the 737 Max? It will make it that much sweeter for the Airline's Employees to fly it! Especially if I can fly First Class!! Pass me a Mimosa please?
 
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keesje
Posts: 13178
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 11:07 pm

Why exactly would you choose MAX? Logic, support for Boeing or something else? The same Boeing & FAA declared the aircraft safe after the first crash and hours before the grounding. I would rather wait for solid support from EASA.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
planecane
Posts: 1142
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 11:23 pm

keesje wrote:
Why exactly would you choose MAX? Logic, support for Boeing or something else? The same Boeing & FAA declared the aircraft safe after the first crash and hours before the grounding. I would rather wait for solid support from EASA.


When it is ungrounded, I won't go out of my way to fly one but won't avoid it either. If the pilots don't believe it is safe, they will refuse to fly it.
 
planecane
Posts: 1142
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 11:30 pm

airzona11 wrote:
wv399 wrote:
CX747 wrote:
Good on Munoz.

As for will there be backlash....people vote with their pocket books. Maybe a few in the first few weeks will change but overall no real backlash.


You're exactly right. If a MAX flight is $1 less, that's the one people will choose. Most won't know or care what kind of plane they're flying on.


The interior is better and the engines quieter, so they would be getting a better experience for less money!


I flew a WN MAX8 back in December. It basically seemed like a slightly quieter version of the -800 with Sky Interior that I flew in the other direction on the same trip. The cockpit looked a little cooler but I wouldn't say the experience was that different. I guess I could feel good that it was a "greener" flight that used 13% less fuel but got me between the same two cities just as fast.
 
Bradin
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Thu May 23, 2019 11:55 pm

keesje wrote:
Why exactly would you choose MAX? Logic, support for Boeing or something else? The same Boeing & FAA declared the aircraft safe after the first crash and hours before the grounding. I would rather wait for solid support from EASA.


For the exact same reason why one would fly a Boeing 787 after a series of battery fires... because people forget.
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1378
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Fri May 24, 2019 12:11 am

keesje wrote:
Why exactly would you choose MAX? Logic, support for Boeing or something else? The same Boeing & FAA declared the aircraft safe after the first crash and hours before the grounding. I would rather wait for solid support from EASA.

The same EASA that certified the MAX previously?
 
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Super80Fan
Posts: 1622
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Fri May 24, 2019 12:16 am

I wouldn't mind flying on a WN MAX, but you won't catch me on one of those AA or UA slave ships. They should be condemned for human rights violations by the UN and immediately scrapped.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
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Super80Fan
Posts: 1622
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: UA's Munoz: Will be on first 737 MAX flight, willing to change flights for customers

Fri May 24, 2019 12:17 am

strfyr51 wrote:
If the Customers don't want to fly the 737 Max? It will make it that much sweeter for the Airline's Employees to fly it! Especially if I can fly First Class!! Pass me a Mimosa please?


The sorry excuse of "first class" cabins on UA and AA's MAX's would barely pass as standard economy seating on higher caliber carriers.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways

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