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Incident PAST-:DC-10 Off Runway close up video

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 1:43 pm
by BN747
Some up close personal live (at the time) views of American Airlines DC-10-30 N139AA at Dallas-Forth Worth International Airport on April 14th ,1993 upon arriving from Honolulu, Hawaii.

video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQIdMvK7yoY

------------------------------------------------
Incident Report
https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 19930414-1

BN747

Re: Incident PAST-:DC-10 Off Runway close up video

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 1:56 pm
by SpaceshipDC10
Thanks for sharing. I remember seeing photos of it when years ago I searched for clues as in to what circumstances AA DBR two DC-10-30s during the early '90s.

Re: Incident PAST-:DC-10 Off Runway close up video

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:34 pm
by BN747
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Thanks for sharing. I remember seeing photos of it when years ago I searched for clues as in to what circumstances AA DBR two DC-10-30s during the early '90s.


Sure, these valuable scenes...need to be seen by AV fans becuz we hear of 'off runways' incidents often.

BN747

Re: Incident PAST-:DC-10 Off Runway close up video

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:54 pm
by Max Q
If I had a penny for every accident caused by a Captain ‘countermanding’ a go
around initiated by their FO



Nearly always a bad decision, reminds me of the Qantas 744 that overran the runway
in Bangkok, FO wanted to go around but the Captain took over with disastrous results

Re: Incident PAST-:DC-10 Off Runway close up video

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:19 am
by FlyHossD
Max Q wrote:
If I had a penny for every accident caused by a Captain ‘countermanding’ a go
around initiated by their FO



Nearly always a bad decision, reminds me of the Qantas 744 that overran the runway
in Bangkok, FO wanted to go around but the Captain took over with disastrous results


Wasn't a similar decision by the captain the cause of WN's accident in LGA, too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest ... Flight_345

I'm sure there are others as well, but I thought of this one first.

Re: Incident PAST-:DC-10 Off Runway close up video

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:36 am
by reltney
The DC-10 crash was poor airmanship. By all means when a go around is called, honor it if fuel and conditions permit for sure. When the Capt touched down, he failed to keep the plane on the runway with basic flight controls....yup....primarily the RUDDER.. tried to use nosewheel steering which is useless at hi speeds.

As an airline pilot I am constantly amazed with many crews who totally blow off crosswinds. It is basic flying. Holding a smidge of aileron in as you get close to rotation ........take the crab out before touchdown if your in a plane that can. Flew the 747 for a bit and under 20kts, wing low worked. Also did son 35kt direct x wind takeoffs and landings with a crab. Yup, the wheel was not level during the roll. Gotta keep the wings level with aileron into the wind etc...etc... primary flight school stuff.... this captain “$&@ up all across the board. There is a video of this crash taken from the end of the runway. On from both ends that is. I worked for AA then at the training center and saw the outcome of the totally preventable event whic a little application of rudder would hav e saved a plane and a few careers.

Re: Incident PAST-:DC-10 Off Runway close up video

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:10 pm
by SpaceshipDC10
reltney wrote:
The DC-10 crash was poor airmanship. By all means when a go around is called, honor it if fuel and conditions permit for sure. When the Capt touched down, he failed to keep the plane on the runway with basic flight controls....yup....primarily the RUDDER.. tried to use nosewheel steering which is useless at hi speeds.

As an airline pilot I am constantly amazed with many crews who totally blow off crosswinds. It is basic flying. Holding a smidge of aileron in as you get close to rotation ........take the crab out before touchdown if your in a plane that can. Flew the 747 for a bit and under 20kts, wing low worked. Also did son 35kt direct x wind takeoffs and landings with a crab. Yup, the wheel was not level during the roll. Gotta keep the wings level with aileron into the wind etc...etc... primary flight school stuff.... this captain “$&@ up all across the board. There is a video of this crash taken from the end of the runway. On from both ends that is. I worked for AA then at the training center and saw the outcome of the totally preventable event whic a little application of rudder would hav e saved a plane and a few careers.


Was the Captain sent into early retirement?



Below are infos taken from the NTSB report.

"The captain, age 59, had a total of 12,562 flight hours, 555 of which were in the DC-IO. He was employed by American Airlines on August 1, 1966, and was designated a captain in the DC-10 in November 1991. He held an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate and was type rated in the DC-IO, B-727, and DC-9, with a commercial type rating in the B-377.

The first officer, age 40, held a commercial pilot certificate, and multi- and single-engine, land ratings. He was employed by American Airlines in September 1986. He had accrued a total of 4,454 flight hours, 376 of which were as a first officer in the DC-IO."

Re: Incident PAST-:DC-10 Off Runway close up video

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:14 pm
by deebee278
[quote="Was the Captain sent into early retirement?

Below are infos taken from the NTSB report.

"The captain, age 59, had a total of 12,562 flight hours, 555 of which were in the DC-IO. He was employed by American Airlines on August 1, 1966, and was designated a captain in the DC-10 in November 1991. He held an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate and was type rated in the DC-IO, B-727, and DC-9, with a commercial type rating in the B-377.

The first officer, age 40, held a commercial pilot certificate, and multi- and single-engine, land ratings. He was employed by American Airlines in September 1986. He had accrued a total of 4,454 flight hours, 376 of which were as a first officer in the DC-IO."
[/quote]

Back in the day, he would have been less than a year from retirement anyway. I'm guessing that was his last flight. Also, the total flight hours sound low for both of them. Total time at AA, perhaps?

Re: Incident PAST-:DC-10 Off Runway close up video

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 10:52 pm
by SpaceshipDC10
deebee278 wrote:
Also, the total flight hours sound low for both of them. Total time at AA, perhaps?


For the FO perhaps, but for the Captain there must be a mistake somewhere in the data, because being employed by AA since 1966 and type rated for all these types and with so few hours... If the date is correct, he joined AA at about 32. Did he work for Transocean before that?

Anyway, here's the aircraft resume:

The airplane, registration N139AA, Serial No. 46711, was owned and operated by American Airlines. The airplane was built by the Douglas Aircraft Company and was sold new to National Airlines on June 11, 1973. It was operated by National Airlines as registration N80NA, and, following the transfer of National Airlines to Pan American World Airways, it was operated by Pan American with the same registration. The airplane was sold by Pan American to American Airlines on November 4, 1983. American Airlines sold the airplane to First Security Bank of Utah on December 31, 1984, and then leased the airplane back. The airplane accumulated 35,348 airframe flight hours and 9,163 cycles when operated by National and Pan American, and 39,483 flight hours and 8,757 cycles when operated by American Airlines, resulting in a total, at the time of the accident, of 74,831 hours and 17,920 cycles.

At AA it flew more long-range flights than before, apparently.

Re: Incident PAST-:DC-10 Off Runway close up video

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:15 am
by reltney
Indeed he was retired.

Re: Incident PAST-:DC-10 Off Runway close up video

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:02 am
by Max Q
deebee278 wrote:
[quote="Was the Captain sent into early retirement?

Below are infos taken from the NTSB report.

"The captain, age 59, had a total of 12,562 flight hours, 555 of which were in the DC-IO. He was employed by American Airlines on August 1, 1966, and was designated a captain in the DC-10 in November 1991. He held an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate and was type rated in the DC-IO, B-727, and DC-9, with a commercial type rating in the B-377.

The first officer, age 40, held a commercial pilot certificate, and multi- and single-engine, land ratings. He was employed by American Airlines in September 1986. He had accrued a total of 4,454 flight hours, 376 of which were as a first officer in the DC-IO."


Back in the day, he would have been less than a year from retirement anyway. I'm guessing that was his last flight. Also, the total flight hours sound low for both of them. Total time at AA, perhaps?[/quote]


I find it interesting that the FO did not
have an ATP or was not required to