LondonXtreme
Topic Author
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 1:15 am

When I am looking the load factor on some popular UA's international routes like EWR-LHR, SFO-PVG/HKG/SIN,etc... The J class seats are always full but not the Y class(In low season the business class is still nearly 100% full and plenty of empty seats in economy class). So, I can see more demand than currently supply in terms of premium traveller on those routes.

Also, the Polaris product is very competitive and should UA reconfigure some 788 and 789 aircrafts to become more spacious and premium heavily? (Just like the way JAL and ANA are currently doing).
 
Ishrion
Posts: 1032
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 1:29 am

Isn't that what the new 46J/22 PE 767-300 and 44J/21 PE 787-10 are for?

And the CRJ-550?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5612
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 1:47 am

LondonXtreme wrote:
Also, the Polaris product is very competitive and should UA reconfigure some 788 and 789 aircrafts to become more spacious and premium heavily?


Let's see if the new 763 and 787-10 configs earn their keep.
 
sohanb82
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:37 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 1:51 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
Also, the Polaris product is very competitive and should UA reconfigure some 788 and 789 aircrafts to become more spacious and premium heavily?


Let's see if the new 763 and 787-10 configs earn their keep.


The 78J is not a premium heavy config. It has less J seats than a 789.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 1032
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 1:55 am

sohanb82 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
Also, the Polaris product is very competitive and should UA reconfigure some 788 and 789 aircrafts to become more spacious and premium heavily?


Let's see if the new 763 and 787-10 configs earn their keep.


The 78J is not a premium heavy config. It has less J seats than a 789.


However, the 789's J is arranged in a 2-2-2... United said they will reconfigure the 788s/789s with this config to the new 1-2-1 Polaris class, right? That means they'll have less space for the new Polaris seats.
 
LondonXtreme
Topic Author
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:07 am

The ideal configuration is between 50-60 J seats, 4-5 rows of PE, and no more than 130Y.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:08 am

Aircraft are plural. You don’t need to say aircrafts
 
flight152
Posts: 3412
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:10 am

LondonXtreme wrote:
The ideal configuration is between 50-60 J seats, 4-5 rows of PE, and no more than 130Y.

Ideal for who? I’m pretty sure United can figure out what’s best for their needs.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2824
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:25 am

LondonXtreme wrote:
When I am looking the load factor on some popular UA's international routes like EWR-LHR, SFO-PVG/HKG/SIN,etc... The J class seats are always full but not the Y class(In low season the business class is still nearly 100% full and plenty of empty seats in economy class). So, I can see more demand than currently supply in terms of premium traveller on those routes.

Also, the Polaris product is very competitive and should UA reconfigure some 788 and 789 aircrafts to become more spacious and premium heavily? (Just like the way JAL and ANA are currently doing).


J, and to a lesser extent, W, is where the money is made. I'm not sure how much more premium United can get. Select B763s are being reconfigured to have just 167 seats (that could be legally dispatched with just four flight attendants), primarily for EWR-LHR. The B789s might lose a few J seats, but they will go to 1-2-1 in J and get a W cabin, which likely reduces the cabin below 240 seats. The real question I would ask is if a reconfiguration would knock the B788 below 200 seats.

While not the subject of the article, I have to wonder if Qantas might look at United and consider a retrofit similar to United, especially by adding a Y+ cabin. Yes their B789s only seat 236 in 3 classes, but money is made by having an aircraft that is easier to fill and reducing the seat count to 227 adds a premium, especially on ULH routes. Before Qantas launched PER-LHR, SFO-SIN was the longest B789 route in the world.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:40 am

LondonXtreme wrote:
The ideal configuration is between 50-60 J seats, 4-5 rows of PE, and no more than 130Y.


That's a foolish comment on so many levels. There is no one size fits all configuration. It depends on the market. And for what aircraft type anyway?
 
GoSharks
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:23 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:41 am

LondonXtreme wrote:
When I am looking the load factor on some popular UA's international routes like EWR-LHR, SFO-PVG/HKG/SIN,etc... The J class seats are always full but not the Y class(In low season the business class is still nearly 100% full and plenty of empty seats in economy class). So, I can see more demand than currently supply in terms of premium traveller on those routes.

Also, the Polaris product is very competitive and should UA reconfigure some 788 and 789 aircrafts to become more spacious and premium heavily? (Just like the way JAL and ANA are currently doing).

On United, J will almost always go out full because of upgrades and non-rev standbys. Having empty seats in J is quite rare as anything that isn’t sold is “given” away.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1625
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:53 am

UA's widebodies are premium enough and in line with their competitors, if not moreso. 40 J seats on a 767 isn't premium?
 
LondonXtreme
Topic Author
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:56 am

aviationaware wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
The ideal configuration is between 50-60 J seats, 4-5 rows of PE, and no more than 130Y.


That's a foolish comment on so many levels. There is no one size fits all configuration. It depends on the market. And for what aircraft type anyway?

Sorry for my mistake, I'm talking about 789. My assumption is that if all the existing 789 are reconfigured into Polaris seat. As someone mentioned above, it will eventually lose the number of J seat by transferring from 2-2-2 to 1-2-1. If UA want to retain the same number of J seats and instal W seats, it has to sacrifice the overall number of Y seats.

From my previous UA's experience during the off-peak season. I flies SFO-SIN and SFO-PVG a lot, with both have 2 daily respectively. Every time I can barely find an empty J seat in the front cabin, but the Y cabin is only less 80% full most of the time.
 
User avatar
AirAfreak
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:20 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:14 am

Bobloblaw wrote:
Aircraft are plural. You don’t need to say aircrafts


I will add the incorrect use of ”Airbii” communicated as the plural form of Airbus; part of your learning tool. Lol!!! Occasionally, I witness “Kenyan,” instead of Kenya Airways; “Alaskan,” instead of Alaska (Airlines), etc., but, I digress.

Back to topic...

Once upon a time, UA created a sub-fleet of “Premium Service” Boeing 757’s for a particular market. The dedicated sub-fleet offered three classes of service: First Class, Business Class, and Economy Plus.

For now, I don’t know what UA needs; but I’m sure they will determine their needs once Polaris is available systemwide.
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
mattnrsa
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:27 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:24 am

Aren’t UA international planes already more premium-heavy than the ones flown by AA and DL?
 
notconcerned
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:25 am

AirAfreak wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
Once upon a time, UA created a sub-fleet of “Premium Service” Boeing 757’s for a particular market. The dedicated sub-fleet offered three classes of service: First Class, Business Class, and Economy Plus.

For now, I don’t know what UA needs; but I’m sure they will determine their needs once Polaris is available systemwide.


That subfleet of 757 with 28J still exists and still only flies EWR-SFO/LAX.

UA planes compared to their US competitors already have more J seats. The thing holding UA back is that they are a multi-hub airline and need to rotate some of these aircraft elsewhere (to other less-premium markets). So it's unlikely they can have a high premium config like NH/SQ/BA flying out of a single premium hubs.
 
sohanb82
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:37 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:34 am

Ishrion wrote:
sohanb82 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Let's see if the new 763 and 787-10 configs earn their keep.


The 78J is not a premium heavy config. It has less J seats than a 789.


However, the 789's J is arranged in a 2-2-2... United said they will reconfigure the 788s/789s with this config to the new 1-2-1 Polaris class, right? That means they'll have less space for the new Polaris seats.


A really interesting thing is that the Polaris seat takes up the same amount of space as the existing seats. So the reconfigured 787s should have about the same J seats. If anything, the 788/789 are in a premium config for a US carrier as AA and DL have a much smaller percentage of Y to J seats on their widebodies.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1935
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:39 am

mattnrsa wrote:
Aren’t UA international planes already more premium-heavy than the ones flown by AA and DL?


DL, maybe. AA has a surprisingly premium fleet, especially the 777-300ER. 8F,52J,28PE.. It's about as premium as you can possibly get. Whole airplane has less seats than Delta's A350..
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
sohanb82
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:37 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:41 am

Varsity1 wrote:
mattnrsa wrote:
Aren’t UA international planes already more premium-heavy than the ones flown by AA and DL?


DL, maybe. AA has a surprisingly premium fleet, especially the 777-300ER. 8F,52J,28PE.. It's about as premium as you can possibly get. Whole airplane has less seats than Delta's A350..


UA is more premium. Their 77W have the same amount of premium seats, but what really matters is when you look at the 772s, 763s, and 787s where UA has a lot more j seats than AA, and will soon have more as the whole fleet gets premium plus.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1092
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:44 am

mattnrsa wrote:
Aren’t UA international planes already more premium-heavy than the ones flown by AA and DL?


They are relatively premium heavy, but they also have the largest widebody fleet so likely the most total premium seats.
 
questions
Posts: 1985
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 3:58 am

aviationaware wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
The ideal configuration is between 50-60 J seats, 4-5 rows of PE, and no more than 130Y.


That's a foolish comment on so many levels. There is no one size fits all configuration. It depends on the market. And for what aircraft type anyway?


A380, lower deck.

Upper deck is all F apartments.

:lol:
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3886
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 4:00 am

flight152 wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
The ideal configuration is between 50-60 J seats, 4-5 rows of PE, and no more than 130Y.

Ideal for who? I’m pretty sure United can figure out what’s best fortheir needs.

United has an excellent Yield Management group in Chicago They have a firm grasp on what they're selling as to what they're offering. they know the break even and the Break even Load factor for every flight. In short? They know their Business.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3886
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 4:43 am

making a sub-fleet of any fleet is not a good Idea. It costs quite a bit of time/money/and effort to install a subset of a fleet and once you do? Then you need not only the airplanes you're flying in that configuration, But spare airplanes in that configuration. And that usually turns out Badly.. Better just to find a configuration that works? And sell the hell out of it!
 
notconcerned
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 4:57 am

Varsity1 wrote:
DL, maybe. AA has a surprisingly premium fleet, especially the 777-300ER. 8F,52J,28PE.. It's about as premium as you can possibly get. Whole airplane has less seats than Delta's A350..


That's no different than UA 77W with 60J. NH 77W has the most premium seats on 77W: 8F68J. A bigger difference is comparing UA 788 36J, 789 48J with AA 788 20J, 789 30J.
 
RollerRB211
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:39 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 5:45 am

strfyr51 wrote:
flight152 wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
The ideal configuration is between 50-60 J seats, 4-5 rows of PE, and no more than 130Y.

Ideal for who? I’m pretty sure United can figure out what’s best fortheir needs.

United has an excellent Yield Management group in Chicago They have a firm grasp on what they're selling as to what they're offering. they know the break even and the Break even Load factor for every flight. In short? They know their Business.


RM analysts have no need to know break even load factor. They try to maximize revenue even on flights that lose money.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1522
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 6:04 am

GoSharks wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
When I am looking the load factor on some popular UA's international routes like EWR-LHR, SFO-PVG/HKG/SIN,etc... The J class seats are always full but not the Y class(In low season the business class is still nearly 100% full and plenty of empty seats in economy class). So, I can see more demand than currently supply in terms of premium traveller on those routes.

Also, the Polaris product is very competitive and should UA reconfigure some 788 and 789 aircrafts to become more spacious and premium heavily? (Just like the way JAL and ANA are currently doing).

On United, J will almost always go out full because of upgrades and non-rev standbys. Having empty seats in J is quite rare as anything that isn’t sold is “given” away.


Not internationally. You are not correct.
 
LondonXtreme
Topic Author
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 6:32 am

notconcerned wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
DL, maybe. AA has a surprisingly premium fleet, especially the 777-300ER. 8F,52J,28PE.. It's about as premium as you can possibly get. Whole airplane has less seats than Delta's A350..


That's no different than UA 77W with 60J. NH 77W has the most premium seats on 77W: 8F68J. A bigger difference is comparing UA 788 36J, 789 48J with AA 788 20J, 789 30J.

Which routes does NH deploy its 77W with only 212 seats(8F68J24W112Y)?The most often I've seen is 250 seats(8F52J24W166Y)
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4294
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 8:28 am

A more premium 789 could also possibly open up new routes, such as EWR - AKL, given the lower weight and greater range?

Cheers,

C.
 
golfingboy
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:03 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 9:07 am

UA has the most premium heavy international fleet of the US3 by a significant margin. UA also seems to have the lion’s share of US corporate contracts and the most diversified international route network. Hence their aircrafts have larger premium cabins.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4068
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 1:16 pm

What will be interesting to watch is when the day comes that ALL United international WB’s are completely refurbished with no old BF seats on anything. There is still a long way to go until they get there AND when Transcontinental has the new rumored flat bed seats (in other words no more battered 752s which are still expensive despite their condition)
At the moment, domestic and international are very inconsistent. One can fly out on a beautiful refurbished used Airbus and return on 737-800. Especially in F, it’s like 2 completely different airlines.
Internationally you could go out in an old J seat facing the plain boring tan/blue walls, and back in a gorgeous Polaris 787-10.
In roughly 2-3 years (from the inside) everything should be consistent and premium looking (not just seat counts)
Then it will be time to accurately answer:
Are United’s bad days really behind them, and they living up to being a new great airline?

Because right now it does still feel like a WIP, much better, but still too many bits of old.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1935
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 4:56 pm

notconcerned wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
DL, maybe. AA has a surprisingly premium fleet, especially the 777-300ER. 8F,52J,28PE.. It's about as premium as you can possibly get. Whole airplane has less seats than Delta's A350..


That's no different than UA 77W with 60J. NH 77W has the most premium seats on 77W: 8F68J. A bigger difference is comparing UA 788 36J, 789 48J with AA 788 20J, 789 30J.


UA 77W doesn't even have F. How is that more premium??
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
notconcerned
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 5:43 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
Which routes does NH deploy its 77W with only 212 seats(8F68J24W112Y)?The most often I've seen is 250 seats(8F52J24W166Y)


HND/NRT-JFK has the 212 seat 77W.

Varsity1 wrote:
UA 77W doesn't even have F. How is that more premium??


The topic is about premium configuration, not about premium product. I agree F is a more premium product than J but having F doesn't necessarily make the overall configuration more premium heavy. EK has a 6F42J 77W and CZ has a 4F32J 77W, would those planes be considered premium heavy configurations just because they have F?
 
GoSharks
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:23 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 6:32 pm

mcdu wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
When I am looking the load factor on some popular UA's international routes like EWR-LHR, SFO-PVG/HKG/SIN,etc... The J class seats are always full but not the Y class(In low season the business class is still nearly 100% full and plenty of empty seats in economy class). So, I can see more demand than currently supply in terms of premium traveller on those routes.

Also, the Polaris product is very competitive and should UA reconfigure some 788 and 789 aircrafts to become more spacious and premium heavily? (Just like the way JAL and ANA are currently doing).

On United, J will almost always go out full because of upgrades and non-rev standbys. Having empty seats in J is quite rare as anything that isn’t sold is “given” away.


Not internationally. You are not correct.

Yes, internationally as well. The only difference between a long haul flight and a non-long haul flight is that the long haul requires a supported upgrade - it isn’t a free upgrade for elites. However, there are so many GPUs around that there is usually a decent sized waitlist for the upgrade.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1625
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Does UA need some premium heavy configuration aircrafts?

Sun May 26, 2019 8:15 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
notconcerned wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
DL, maybe. AA has a surprisingly premium fleet, especially the 777-300ER. 8F,52J,28PE.. It's about as premium as you can possibly get. Whole airplane has less seats than Delta's A350..


That's no different than UA 77W with 60J. NH 77W has the most premium seats on 77W: 8F68J. A bigger difference is comparing UA 788 36J, 789 48J with AA 788 20J, 789 30J.


UA 77W doesn't even have F. How is that more premium??


Uh maybe because intl J has by and large eliminated the need for F? Today's J product (lie-flat, aisle access) is what F was 15 years ago. Therefore, airlines don't need as much F.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos