santos
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Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 3:57 am

According to TP website LIS-BJL will start on the 26th October 2019, 3x weekly flights using an A320.

What kind of traffic are they after? Northern Europeans looking for winter sun?

https://www.flytap.com/en-pt/flights/af ... ork=SOCIAL
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 6:34 am

My guestimate would be LON VFR traffic.
 
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LostLuggage
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 7:21 am

eta unknown wrote:
My guestimate would be LON VFR traffic.

Could they really compete when summer rolls around and TCX/TUI start their seasonal nonstops? There are plenty of them.

Wondering if the Gambian gov offers any incentives on a route like this. Binter Canarias also fly to Banjul a few times a week which always struck me as an oddball route from a relatively small and dispersed population centre.
 
dredgy
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 8:01 am

What happened to their announced Nouakchott service? I was very keen for that.

Iberia-Africa (even non-Portuguese Africa) is fairly healthy vfr wise, and rest of the traffic likely to be picked up from France, UK. Africans have spread quite far in Europe.
Gambia is a bit of a tourist market too (like surprisingly big)
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 12:42 pm

One night in Banjul and the world's your oyster...
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 2:19 pm

Sex tourism to Gambia does exist and so does sex tourism to many another countries. What makes your remark sexist is that a suggestion is being made that female sex tourists would be the bread and butter of the route. You do not have any numbers to support your claim, in fact you do not present any data at all. Your comments omit few facts that there are over 140,000 Gambians living abroad and the overall tourist numbers into Gambia exceed 100,000.

I guess FCO's traffic numbers are supported by paedophile traffic in and out of Vatican City?
 
bluefrog
Posts: 39
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 2:54 pm

i flew to the Gambia for a holiday on my own back in 84/85 (i'm a male by the way ) loved it, we were told by the holiday rep try not to be away from the hotel when it turns dark ,,also told us the locals are very friendly and want to show us their life ,i was approached by a man all he wanted was to be my guide ,i saw where he lived in a small hut ,no water ,no electricity he lived in ,a small village ,not far from the hotel , a couple of days later we went to a town where there was a political rally then wrestling tournament where i was the only white person there until a bus loads of tourists arrived ,the best holiday i've had ,at the end before i went back to the UK where i lived at the time ,i gave him most of my t-shirts shorts etc ,that's all he wanted weird but a great experience
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 4:10 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
Sex tourism to Gambia does exist and so does sex tourism to many another countries. What makes your remark sexist is that a suggestion is being made that female sex tourists would be the bread and butter of the route. You do not have any numbers to support your claim, in fact you do not present any data at all. Your comments omit few facts that there are over 140,000 Gambians living abroad and the overall tourist numbers into Gambia exceed 100,000.

I guess FCO's traffic numbers are supported by paedophile traffic in and out of Vatican City?


Keep being naive.

Basically, since the demise of Monarch it has become a pain for these ladies to get back to their boyfriends. 60% of the Gambians in Europe are illegal aliens so this flight is not catering to them.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 4:32 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Basically, since the demise of Monarch it has become a pain for these ladies to get back to their boyfriends. 60% of the Gambians in Europe are illegal aliens so this flight is not catering to them.


Thomas Cock still flies from the UK to Banjul in winter. But you are right TAP should ease their pain in the ass.
 
AngelsDecay
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 4:44 pm

dredgy wrote:
What happened to their announced Nouakchott service? I was very keen for that.



AFAIK and according some colleagues, TAP just gave up the plans for the time being to serve Mauritania due to some recent market studies wich disapproved such route in favour of already existing AF, RAM and THY...would be a "money loss". Changed plans to Conakry and Banjul instead.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 5:06 pm

I’m surprised Banjul isn’t more popular with Europeans looking for winter sun. It’s weather from Oct to March looks pretty decent with temps in the low 30 c . I wonder if we will see more tourism coming here especially from the he uk which is seeing a rise in non eu travel .
Also in addition to tc winter flights Titan operates flights for a tour company there as well. Maybe we could see some lcc interest coming soon as well ?
 
SCQ83
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 5:26 pm

f4f3a wrote:
I’m surprised Banjul isn’t more popular with Europeans looking for winter sun. It’s weather from Oct to March looks pretty decent with temps in the low 30 c . I wonder if we will see more tourism coming here especially from the he uk which is seeing a rise in non eu travel


It is one of the poorest countries in the world with poor health conditions (need for vaccines) and political turn-oil from time to time.

If you want a "tropical" African country you have Cabo Verde for that.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 5:33 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Thomas Cock still flies from the UK to Banjul in winter. But you are right TAP should ease their pain in the ass.


Not quite.

Keep in mind that Thomas Cook isn't just an airline, it's a travel agency with it's own airline. By far most of their passengers are on a package holiday. They don't have anything to say in what airline they fly, the travel agency decides that for them. And of course they book their passengers on their own airline.

f4f3a wrote:
I’m surprised Banjul isn’t more popular with Europeans looking for winter sun. It’s weather from Oct to March looks pretty decent with temps in the low 30 c . I wonder if we will see more tourism coming here especially from the he uk which is seeing a rise in non eu travel .
Also in addition to tc winter flights Titan operates flights for a tour company there as well. Maybe we could see some lcc interest coming soon as well ?


It's an upcoming destination, but so far with limited capacity. It doesn't have the facilities for mass tourism like the Canary Islands. It's a bit similar to Cape Verde, another upcoming destination.

If you look at the airlines that serve Banjul, most European airlines of it are package holiday operators just like Thomas Cook. Among them are Corendon and TUI. Brussels Airlines is serving Banjul as well, but when you book a package holiday at TUI Belgium you don't get to fly Brussels Airlines. They book you on TUI fly Belgium.

LCCs are a bit unlikely since there is no open skies agreement between Gambia and the EU, it's on bilaterals. Only one LCC is serving Banjul, that's Vueling from Barcelona. You won't likely see Ryanair here. LCCs mostly rely on people traveling on their own, not part of a package holiday. And that is very rare in these countries.
 
Kadish
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 7:21 pm

f4f3a wrote:
I’m surprised Banjul isn’t more popular with Europeans looking for winter sun. It’s weather from Oct to March looks pretty decent with temps in the low 30 c . I wonder if we will see more tourism coming here especially from the he uk which is seeing a rise in non eu travel .
Also in addition to tc winter flights Titan operates flights for a tour company there as well. Maybe we could see some lcc interest coming soon as well ?



If you want winter sun gol todo the Canary Island, safe, good food, good hospitals, realible n numerous airlines operating in ten islands...
 
f4f3a
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 7:40 pm

Yes but in the winter it’s not that hot there. Probably 20 degrees . Lots of people from UK especially head to warmer places . Caribbean Dubai etc . This is not that far away and unlike Cape Verde has sandy beaches and is fairly green . It’s also got a fair bit of wildlife . It’s also quite cheap so could appeal to those who haven’t got the budget / time to go elsewhere
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sun May 26, 2019 7:41 pm

I’m surprised that it’s on an A320, when a Portugalia Embraer 195 could be the route starter 4 times weekly, with a current Portugalia Europe route upgraded to mainline.
 
AngelsDecay
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Mon May 27, 2019 2:10 am

TAP also shared on the web some time ago two new routes regarding Lisbon-Addis Ababa and Lisbon-Lima....like Lisbon_Mauritania they went down without even starting. By now Bamako was stopped and started Lome, so lets wait for the initial numbers with BJL and CKY.
https://www.flytap.com/pt-pt/destinos/todos-os-destinos
 
dfpinto
Posts: 66
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Mon May 27, 2019 8:11 am

Wow, this thread escalated quickly... From a small European airline announcing one random route to sex tourism and pedophilia...

Anyway, I don't remember at any point TP annoucing Addis Ababa or Lima. I do know that new routes are studied and evaluated all the time. Buenos Aires is a good example. It was announced by their Chairman and later on the management abandoned that idea in favor of a US route.
 
TC957
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Mon May 27, 2019 9:36 am

Good move by TAP, this should be an important new route for the UK to BJL. Since TCX / MT's future is in certain amount of doubt and Gambia Experience have high seat-only fares on their twice-weekly charter I think TAP will do well despite the anti-social night flight timings of this new service. However, that does ensure the best connections at LIS.
 
airbazar
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Mon May 27, 2019 12:19 pm

TC957 wrote:
Good move by TAP, this should be an important new route for the UK to BJL. Since TCX / MT's future is in certain amount of doubt and Gambia Experience have high seat-only fares on their twice-weekly charter I think TAP will do well despite the anti-social night flight timings of this new service. However, that does ensure the best connections at LIS.


West Africa in general should be a very good market for TP. It's easily done with a narrowbody from LIS and it can leverage connections from the rest of Europe and the U.S. By contrast SN has to serve BJL with a stop in Dakar because they need to operate with an A330, likely due to the distance and payload. And as they [TP} venture further south to places like Conakry and Lome, the A320 becomes more of an advantage over a 2 stop A330. If only Lisbon had a better airport :banghead:
 
AngelsDecay
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Mon May 27, 2019 1:22 pm

dfpinto wrote:
Wow, this thread escalated quickly... From a small European airline

Are you sure TP is a small European airline..?
 
sw733
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Mon May 27, 2019 2:56 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Basically, since the demise of Monarch it has become a pain for these ladies to get back to their boyfriends. 60% of the Gambians in Europe are illegal aliens so this flight is not catering to them.


Thomas Cock still flies from the UK to Banjul in winter. But you are right TAP should ease their pain in the ass.


Thomas Cock would be an interesting name for an airline flying to Banjul
 
dfpinto
Posts: 66
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Mon May 27, 2019 4:36 pm

AngelsDecay wrote:
dfpinto wrote:
Wow, this thread escalated quickly... From a small European airline

Are you sure TP is a small European airline..?


It is small when you compare with the likes of LH, AF/KL or IAG. Being small is not a negative connotation. In this case it just shows how big is their achievement, for an airline with less than 100 planes, in Portugal, still manages to survive and to grow in this industry. In case you haven't noticed, it is very tough out there.... Just ask the guys working for Airberlin, Primera Air, Monarch, Germania and so on...
 
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AECM
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Mon May 27, 2019 4:39 pm

dfpinto wrote:
AngelsDecay wrote:
dfpinto wrote:
Wow, this thread escalated quickly... From a small European airline

Are you sure TP is a small European airline..?


It is small when you compare with the likes of LH, AF/KL or IAG. Being small is not a negative connotation. In this case it just shows how big is their achievement, for an airline with less than 100 planes, in Portugal, still manages to survive and to grow in this industry. In case you haven't noticed, it is very tough out there.... Just ask the guys working for Airberlin, Primera Air, Monarch, Germania and so on...


As a side note TAP last week received the Aircraft 100th and 101 :D The fleet renewal will get the aircraft count over 100 units
 
rbavfan
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Mon May 27, 2019 6:11 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
f4f3a wrote:
I’m surprised Banjul isn’t more popular with Europeans looking for winter sun. It’s weather from Oct to March looks pretty decent with temps in the low 30 c . I wonder if we will see more tourism coming here especially from the he uk which is seeing a rise in non eu travel


It is one of the poorest countries in the world with poor health conditions (need for vaccines) and political turn-oil from time to time.

If you want a "tropical" African country you have Cabo Verde for that.


Yes and people go there because it's a cheap vacation.
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Mon May 27, 2019 7:46 pm

dfpinto wrote:
AngelsDecay wrote:
dfpinto wrote:
Wow, this thread escalated quickly... From a small European airline

Are you sure TP is a small European airline..?


It is small when you compare with the likes of LH, AF/KL or IAG. Being small is not a negative connotation. In this case it just shows how big is their achievement, for an airline with less than 100 planes, in Portugal, still manages to survive and to grow in this industry. In case you haven't noticed, it is very tough out there.... Just ask the guys working for Airberlin, Primera Air, Monarch, Germania and so on...

Almost true. IAG is not an airline :)
IMO, there are only 5 large network carriers in Europe: BA, KL/AF, LH, TK, and SU. In addition there are 2 large LCC: FR and EZ. Just about every other significant airline is in a second tier airline. They are all about the same size. And then there is VS which is about 1/3 the size of TP for example but for some inexplicable reason some people here make it seem larger than it actually is :)
 
tomcat
Posts: 418
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Mon May 27, 2019 9:47 pm

airbazar wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Good move by TAP, this should be an important new route for the UK to BJL. Since TCX / MT's future is in certain amount of doubt and Gambia Experience have high seat-only fares on their twice-weekly charter I think TAP will do well despite the anti-social night flight timings of this new service. However, that does ensure the best connections at LIS.


West Africa in general should be a very good market for TP. It's easily done with a narrowbody from LIS and it can leverage connections from the rest of Europe and the U.S. By contrast SN has to serve BJL with a stop in Dakar because they need to operate with an A330, likely due to the distance and payload. And as they [TP} venture further south to places like Conakry and Lome, the A320 becomes more of an advantage over a 2 stop A330. If only Lisbon had a better airport :banghead:


I'm wondering how good this market can be for TP. Sure, times are changing and TP is a much larger airline now than it used to be not so long ago, nevertheless if BJL had been an obvious market, TP could have launched it years ago. By comparison, Brussels Airlines and Sabena before it have been flying to BJL for decades (they currently fly 4/7 to BJL). I'm curious to see if the increased competition from TP and AT will force SN to revise its flight planning to West Africa. BRU-BJL is only 2500nm so it could already be operated with an A320CEO if need be. I think that the reason for SN to operate widebodies to West Africa is for their cargo capacity and their business class seats. The inbound flights being operated at night, there is some logic to offer proper business class seats. Also SN may be transporting people working for NGOs and the likes, which would generate some proper business class trafic. In the future, if the competition would threaten the current SN flight schemes (WB and 1 stop services), I wouldn't be surprised to see them evolving towards a mixture of WB and NB flights, the WB taking care of the cargo, the NB offering P2P flights and maintaining the frequencies at a decent level. A MoM aircraft could be very helpful for SN there.

About BJL, in Belgium it has been marketed as a touristic destination ever since Sabena started flying to it and there was some demand for it and from the neighboring countries. This has helped to fill SN's flights. By comparison, Portugal has mostly remained a touristic destination rather than a supplier of tourists. This might explain why TP never flew to places like BJL until now.
 
Natflyer
Posts: 636
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Mon May 27, 2019 10:25 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
f4f3a wrote:
I’m surprised Banjul isn’t more popular with Europeans looking for winter sun. It’s weather from Oct to March looks pretty decent with temps in the low 30 c . I wonder if we will see more tourism coming here especially from the he uk which is seeing a rise in non eu travel


It is one of the poorest countries in the world with poor health conditions (need for vaccines) and political turn-oil from time to time.

If you want a "tropical" African country you have Cabo Verde for that.


Well, Cabo Verde is basically "Africa light", or Africa for beginners. Sal is horribly boring on the second day. At least Praia is more alive.
 
airbazar
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Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Tue May 28, 2019 11:35 am

tomcat wrote:
I'm wondering how good this market can be for TP. Sure, times are changing and TP is a much larger airline now than it used to be not so long ago, nevertheless if BJL had been an obvious market, TP could have launched it years ago. By comparison, Brussels Airlines and Sabena before it have been flying to BJL for decades (they currently fly 4/7 to BJL).


TP couldn't serve Banjul and many other cities it serves today because it did not have the money to expand, that's why. Some times being a fully government owned airline is a bad thing in the sense that the airline can't get capital to fund expansion or product improvements. After the airline became semi-private, the new investors are now able to provide funding to support this expansion.

I have no doubt that TP's expansion into Africa is affecting and will affect SN. Combined with LH's decision to roll SN into Eurowings, its days in small markets like Banjul may be over. On top of that TP is a *A member and Eurowings is not. If the UK market is the main European target as some people here alluded to, there's no need to fly UK-BRU-Dakar-Banjul when they can fly UK-LIS-BJL. As mentioned above, TP could even downgauge the route to an E195 if it has to.
 
sw733
Posts: 5856
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Tue May 28, 2019 3:13 pm

Natflyer wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
f4f3a wrote:
I’m surprised Banjul isn’t more popular with Europeans looking for winter sun. It’s weather from Oct to March looks pretty decent with temps in the low 30 c . I wonder if we will see more tourism coming here especially from the he uk which is seeing a rise in non eu travel


It is one of the poorest countries in the world with poor health conditions (need for vaccines) and political turn-oil from time to time.

If you want a "tropical" African country you have Cabo Verde for that.


Well, Cabo Verde is basically "Africa light", or Africa for beginners. Sal is horribly boring on the second day. At least Praia is more alive.


I love Cabo Verde, but one doesn't go there for the cities.

Also, in regards to the earlier comment about tropical Africa, don't forget the beautiful countries in the Indian Ocean that are quite a bit further but still part of Africa.
 
aviationlover7
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:35 am

Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Fri May 31, 2019 7:26 am

Great to see TAP building such a comprehensive network in West Africa!
So far this expansion has been mostly in the NorthWestern African countries but perhaps with the new 321neoLR TP might venture into East Africa and/or expand further in the Southern part. Thoughts?
 
dfpinto
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:48 pm

Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Fri May 31, 2019 7:51 am

Never say never, but I find East Africa very unlikely, because:

- There's very little to nothing O&D market
- Connecting traffic to Europe has better options without having to backtrack
- A321neoLR will be focused on priority markets: thin TATL routes to East Coast (maybe a little bit MidWest) and Northwest Brasil

South Africa I do find more likely because:

- There's still a considerable VRF market between SA and Portugal
- If the schedules are placed properly, they can still add connecting traffic to US and UK (although that means competing directly with BA)
- IB just abandoned JNB, which can be viewed from two perspectives: TP would be the only airline from Iberian Peninsula to operate to South Africa, but on the other hand, if IB didn't find it profitable, is it really worth it to get into it...
 
santos
Topic Author
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:46 pm

Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Fri May 31, 2019 8:04 am

Would TP venture onto the lucrative Nigerian market?
I’m sure BA, AF/KLM offer plenty of daily flights to LOS/ABJ?
Maybe TP could get into that market by offering connections via LIS?
Plus USA-Nigeria market, now that they are getting a decent USA network?
Just a though.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9614
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Fri May 31, 2019 11:35 am

santos wrote:
Would TP venture onto the lucrative Nigerian market?
I’m sure BA, AF/KLM offer plenty of daily flights to LOS/ABJ?
Maybe TP could get into that market by offering connections via LIS?
Plus USA-Nigeria market, now that they are getting a decent USA network?
Just a though.

I've been wondering that myself. My feeling is that the Nigeria market for TP is just not lucrative enough to outweigh the risks due to the lack of O&D. Nigeria is an expensive market because of its security implications and I suspect to make it work it needs premium passengers. I did read recently about an agreement with Angola to allow TP to serve secondary cities. My guess is if the LR would be used in Africa it would be there.
I would like to see them expand further into equatorial Africa to places like Cameroon and Gabon. In East Africa only ADD makes sense but I don't know if the LR can fly ADD-LIS because of the altitude.
 
aviationlover7
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:35 am

Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:13 am

airbazar wrote:
santos wrote:
Would TP venture onto the lucrative Nigerian market?
I’m sure BA, AF/KLM offer plenty of daily flights to LOS/ABJ?
Maybe TP could get into that market by offering connections via LIS?
Plus USA-Nigeria market, now that they are getting a decent USA network?
Just a though.

I've been wondering that myself. My feeling is that the Nigeria market for TP is just not lucrative enough to outweigh the risks due to the lack of O&D. Nigeria is an expensive market because of its security implications and I suspect to make it work it needs premium passengers. I did read recently about an agreement with Angola to allow TP to serve secondary cities. My guess is if the LR would be used in Africa it would be there.
I would like to see them expand further into equatorial Africa to places like Cameroon and Gabon. In East Africa only ADD makes sense but I don't know if the LR can fly ADD-LIS because of the altitude.


Add Kenya and Tanzania to the list in East Africa (popular tourist destinations for Europeans).
 
airbazar
Posts: 9614
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Tap Air Portugal To Start Lisbon-Banjul

Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:34 am

aviationlover7 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
santos wrote:
Would TP venture onto the lucrative Nigerian market?
I’m sure BA, AF/KLM offer plenty of daily flights to LOS/ABJ?
Maybe TP could get into that market by offering connections via LIS?
Plus USA-Nigeria market, now that they are getting a decent USA network?
Just a though.

I've been wondering that myself. My feeling is that the Nigeria market for TP is just not lucrative enough to outweigh the risks due to the lack of O&D. Nigeria is an expensive market because of its security implications and I suspect to make it work it needs premium passengers. I did read recently about an agreement with Angola to allow TP to serve secondary cities. My guess is if the LR would be used in Africa it would be there.
I would like to see them expand further into equatorial Africa to places like Cameroon and Gabon. In East Africa only ADD makes sense but I don't know if the LR can fly ADD-LIS because of the altitude.


Add Kenya and Tanzania to the list in East Africa (popular tourist destinations for Europeans).


The problem is LIS is a bit of a detour to get to those destinations and any potential passengers from N.America would be on a 2-stop itinerary.
My logic for an ADD route is because it is a *A hub and TP could funnel Portugal originating traffic to East Africa via ADD and vice versa, mainly to Mozambique. This in turn could support ET adding routes from ADD to secondary cities in Mozambique. ET currently only serves Maputo from ADD but it operates domestic flights from MPM to just about every secondary city.

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