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yowza
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New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 2:14 pm

Can anyone shed some light on what's going on with this new 747-400 operation out of St Vincent and the Grenadines? This seems extremely ill advised or like a front for moving big money around and avoiding scrutiny. Maybe our friends from the Caribbean can chime in.

https://news784.com/local-news/747-airc ... t-vincnet/

YOWza
 
IWMBH
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 2:36 pm

Seems to be an ex-China airlines 747 N508BB. One Caribbean is a charter airlines, the 747 is not uncommon in the charter business.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 2:52 pm

This is the aircraft:

Boeing 747 -409 29031 1186 N508BB Aero Intelligence Inc ferried 23-24may19 VCV-PHX-SVD, small “One Caribbean” titl ex B-18208


https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... e/GP2dF6lO
 
AF022
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 3:15 pm

Seems highly suspicious.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 3:33 pm

St. Vincent- Dubai? Now, that's a joke if there ever was one.
 
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adamblang
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 3:55 pm

yowza wrote:
https://news784.com/local-news/747-aircraft-owned-by-local-investors-arrive-in-st-vincnet/

A "being 747." :lol:
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
MO11
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 4:37 pm

Well, it's owned by a Nigerian travel company and has the logo of a St. Vincent-based Beech 1900/King Air operator. This ought to be good.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2072
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 4:51 pm

MO11 wrote:
Well, it's owned by a Nigerian travel company and has the logo of a St. Vincent-based Beech 1900/King Air operator. This ought to be good.

The way I always see these things is:

To lease or buy, and maintain and operate, a B744, you need a lot of money.

People who have a lot of money are called rich people.

Rich people don't (usually) become rich because they are stupid.

To invest in a venture like this and think that it will be even close to profitable is nothing short of being outright stupid.

Ergo: there is no other explanation for this airline project than a shady dealing of some other sort. Drugs? Corruption? (The prime minister said the government would "support" it.) Money Laundering? All of the above? If I were the Chief of Police on the island (or the DEA), I would be all over this from day 1.
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 893
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 4:59 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Well, it's owned by a Nigerian travel company and has the logo of a St. Vincent-based Beech 1900/King Air operator. This ought to be good.

The way I always see these things is:

To lease or buy, and maintain and operate, a B744, you need a lot of money.

People who have a lot of money are called rich people.

Rich people don't (usually) become rich because they are stupid.

To invest in a venture like this and think that it will be even close to profitable is nothing short of being outright stupid.

Ergo: there is no other explanation for this airline project than a shady dealing of some other sort. Drugs? Corruption? (The prime minister said the government would "support" it.) Money Laundering? All of the above? If I were the Chief of Police on the island (or the DEA), I would be all over this from day 1.



I hear you, and I’m inclined to agree with all of what you’ve said, but if this infact a shady operation in the making, why go out and acquire one of the largest aircraft one could find? That would certainly attract some unneeded attention. Why not go for a 737 classic, MD80, heck even a 757? I’m certainly keen to see where this goes.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
bennett123
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 5:14 pm

Baltia 2?.
 
LHA320
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 5:20 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Well, it's owned by a Nigerian travel company and has the logo of a St. Vincent-based Beech 1900/King Air operator. This ought to be good.

The way I always see these things is:

To lease or buy, and maintain and operate, a B744, you need a lot of money.

People who have a lot of money are called rich people.

Rich people don't (usually) become rich because they are stupid.

To invest in a venture like this and think that it will be even close to profitable is nothing short of being outright stupid.

Ergo: there is no other explanation for this airline project than a shady dealing of some other sort. Drugs? Corruption? (The prime minister said the government would "support" it.) Money Laundering? All of the above? If I were the Chief of Police on the island (or the DEA), I would be all over this from day 1.


To operate it you need a lot of money. When it comes to buying or leasing, currently there are not many long-haul aircraft which you can get much cheaper than a 744. Just look at the current aircraft value threat (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1422705). That is why we have seen 744 going to smaller carriers more often in the past few years, for example Terra Avia of Moldavia.

The 744 is cheap to buy, but to operate and to maintain it, you need a bunch of money. But to conclude this...
Ergo: There is no aircraft for that purchase price which can carry more drugs than this 744 :duck:
AB6 - A319 - A320 - A321 - A333 - A388 - AT42 - 733 - 734 - 735 - 73H - 738 - 752 - 753 - 763 - 772 - DC10 - MD83
 
strfyr51
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 5:23 pm

LimaFoxTango wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Well, it's owned by a Nigerian travel company and has the logo of a St. Vincent-based Beech 1900/King Air operator. This ought to be good.

The way I always see these things is:

To lease or buy, and maintain and operate, a B744, you need a lot of money.

People who have a lot of money are called rich people.

Rich people don't (usually) become rich because they are stupid.

To invest in a venture like this and think that it will be even close to profitable is nothing short of being outright stupid.

Ergo: there is no other explanation for this airline project than a shady dealing of some other sort. Drugs? Corruption? (The prime minister said the government would "support" it.) Money Laundering? All of the above? If I were the Chief of Police on the island (or the DEA), I would be all over this from day 1.



I hear you, and I’m inclined to agree with all of what you’ve said, but if this infact a shady operation in the making, why go out and acquire one of the largest aircraft one could find? That would certainly attract some unneeded attention. Why not go for a 737 classic, MD80, heck even a 757? I’m certainly keen to see where this goes.

the airplane is intent on how you plan to Use it. There have been 747 charter operators in the past, Tower Air comes to mind. I actually worked for a charter operator. the Airplanes did ok and they were a 515 seat 747-233 and a 505 seat 747-257. .
 
Brickell305
Posts: 538
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 5:25 pm

LimaFoxTango wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Well, it's owned by a Nigerian travel company and has the logo of a St. Vincent-based Beech 1900/King Air operator. This ought to be good.

The way I always see these things is:

To lease or buy, and maintain and operate, a B744, you need a lot of money.

People who have a lot of money are called rich people.

Rich people don't (usually) become rich because they are stupid.

To invest in a venture like this and think that it will be even close to profitable is nothing short of being outright stupid.

Ergo: there is no other explanation for this airline project than a shady dealing of some other sort. Drugs? Corruption? (The prime minister said the government would "support" it.) Money Laundering? All of the above? If I were the Chief of Police on the island (or the DEA), I would be all over this from day 1.



I hear you, and I’m inclined to agree with all of what you’ve said, but if this infact a shady operation in the making, why go out and acquire one of the largest aircraft one could find? That would certainly attract some unneeded attention. Why not go for a 737 classic, MD80, heck even a 757? I’m certainly keen to see where this goes.

I am fairly certain this will be a financial disaster. Already established airlines (outside of LIAT) offer barebones scheduled service to SVD. Weekly and twice weekly service to a handful of destinations. None of this is done on widebodies. Where are they going to fly with a 747-400 that has sufficient demand to make it commercially worthwhile? Whether as a charter or scheduled carrier? I suspect this is partly corruption, and partly an attempt by the government to make the new international airport seem like a wise investment when so far it hasn’t produced much in the way of air service. Gullible supporters of the gov will feel that this justifies the investment and that flights to Dubai show that SVD is leading the way in the Caribbean.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 5:28 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
The way I always see these things is:

To lease or buy, and maintain and operate, a B744, you need a lot of money.

People who have a lot of money are called rich people.

Rich people don't (usually) become rich because they are stupid.

To invest in a venture like this and think that it will be even close to profitable is nothing short of being outright stupid.

Ergo: there is no other explanation for this airline project than a shady dealing of some other sort. Drugs? Corruption? (The prime minister said the government would "support" it.) Money Laundering? All of the above? If I were the Chief of Police on the island (or the DEA), I would be all over this from day 1.



I hear you, and I’m inclined to agree with all of what you’ve said, but if this infact a shady operation in the making, why go out and acquire one of the largest aircraft one could find? That would certainly attract some unneeded attention. Why not go for a 737 classic, MD80, heck even a 757? I’m certainly keen to see where this goes.

the airplane is intent on how you plan to Use it. There have been 747 charter operators in the past, Tower Air comes to mind. I actually worked for a charter operator. the Airplanes did ok and they were a 515 seat 747-233 and a 505 seat 747-257. .
Demand from St. Vincent to basically anywhere is extremely low. There’s basically no viable destination to which you’d need as much aircraft as a 747 whether as a charter or scheduled service.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2072
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 5:32 pm

LimaFoxTango wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Well, it's owned by a Nigerian travel company and has the logo of a St. Vincent-based Beech 1900/King Air operator. This ought to be good.

The way I always see these things is:

To lease or buy, and maintain and operate, a B744, you need a lot of money.

People who have a lot of money are called rich people.

Rich people don't (usually) become rich because they are stupid.

To invest in a venture like this and think that it will be even close to profitable is nothing short of being outright stupid.

Ergo: there is no other explanation for this airline project than a shady dealing of some other sort. Drugs? Corruption? (The prime minister said the government would "support" it.) Money Laundering? All of the above? If I were the Chief of Police on the island (or the DEA), I would be all over this from day 1.



I hear you, and I’m inclined to agree with all of what you’ve said, but if this infact a shady operation in the making, why go out and acquire one of the largest aircraft one could find? That would certainly attract some unneeded attention. Why not go for a 737 classic, MD80, heck even a 757? I’m certainly keen to see where this goes.

Because those aircraft cannot carry your...eeeh....flour to Europe, China or wherever you need to send it?
 
A380MSN004
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 8:26 pm

À "local investor" from St Vincent :) sounds like a joke
 
bhxalex
Posts: 131
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 8:48 pm

To be used on a Daily SVD-DTW? As delta are clearly neglecting this huge market out of pure spite towards DTW.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 9:37 pm

bhxalex wrote:
To be used on a Daily SVD-DTW? As delta are clearly neglecting this huge market out of pure spite towards DTW.


No way, it'll be subleased to Baltia until they can get their 742 up and running. Either that or they plan on doing Hajj charters from the Caribbean. Everything is totally above board here, nothing to see, move along.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
trintocan
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Mon May 27, 2019 11:20 pm

This does not make any sense whatsoever. St Vincent is a small market of some 110 000 people and there is no way that market can support a 747-400 flying anywhere, let alone DXB. Let's consider a few things. First, if anyone is concerned that after 2 years the new SVD is underutilised, one just needs some patience. St Vincent has long had a small, niche tourist product which largely arose because of the lack of long-haul air access. This product was largely based on sailing through the Grenadines (which reduced the air access requirements as many boats sailed in from elsewhere) and some small, exclusive resorts on both St Vincent and the Grenadine Islands. Now that there is a large airport in SVD one imagines tourist development would gradually evolve to a size which would provide would utilise the airport more as well as provide sustainable revenue to the country. It needs to avoid rash over-development which would damage its environment and potentially its society. It takes a good few years for the benefits of a new airport to filter through.

Now, where this route to DXB is concerned, why? There are no passenger flights from any Caribbean islands to the Middle East (BGI does have EY cargo service to AUH). Two years ago EK planned a route to PTY which would have been the longest in the world - the 17hr 30 min odyssey being operated on a Boeing 777-200LR. This flight would have been from EK's fortress hub in DXB, thus feeding traffic at that end and linked into CM's PTY hub, which has feed from across Latin America and the Caribbean. Indeed a tie-in with CM was on the cards. This route was thus carefully planned out but in the end never materialised. Why anyone would imagine that a new stand-alone operator from SVD could make a DXB route work with one plane is beyond me.

The 747-400 is an old type and while it is relatively cheap to purchase it is thirsty and costly to maintain. After all this is why they are cheap - many are being discarded. As for Hajj, please, there is very little of a Muslim community in SVD. The region's largest Islamic communities are in POS, GEO and PBM and in all of these cases travel agents put together packages for those travelling Hajj, generally involving connecting somewhere.

The Caribbean does not have a happy history with airlines, largely because of lots of politics and little cash and proper structuring of airlines. We will see what happens here.
Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
smartplane
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Tue May 28, 2019 12:27 am

Perhaps on it's first flight to DXB, it will have to divert?
 
phatfarmlines
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Tue May 28, 2019 1:13 am

trintocan wrote:
Now, where this route to DXB is concerned, why? There are no passenger flights from any Caribbean islands to the Middle East (BGI does have EY cargo service to AUH). Two years ago EK planned a route to PTY which would have been the longest in the world - the 17hr 30 min odyssey being operated on a Boeing 777-200LR. This flight would have been from EK's fortress hub in DXB, thus feeding traffic at that end and linked into CM's PTY hub, which has feed from across Latin America and the Caribbean. Indeed a tie-in with CM was on the cards. This route was thus carefully planned out but in the end never materialised. Why anyone would imagine that a new stand-alone operator from SVD could make a DXB route work with one plane is beyond me.



I do think we will see some form of ME3 in the future in the Caribbean as Middle East investment spreads. This could include a West African stopover, but it needs to be on the right aircraft type (thinking 330neo here).
 
c933103
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Tue May 28, 2019 3:46 am

Was the 747 given to Saint Vincent in order to show Taiwan's support on the country, so that they will remain on Taiwan's side instead of switching to supporting People's Republic of China instead?
This is a placeholder.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Tue May 28, 2019 4:25 am

AF022 wrote:
Seems highly suspicious.

Grenadines is a British Commonwealth country, and they have a brand new international airport. This looks like someone making a big bet on the UK-Islands charter market.

Probably a lot of incentive money around for something like this, as well, starting with the World Bank. And a 20 year old 747 is not going to be an expensive lease. Not cheap to operate, of course, but likely dirt cheap to get, as wide-bodies go. Partner with a UK charter company, or two, and Ron Grenadines-UK once a week. Low utilization, low cycles makes the older airframe less of a challenge. Could work, with enough marketing and incentives.
 
Luxair747SP
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 2:24 pm

Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Tue May 28, 2019 5:29 am

Maybe this is just another outlet to get a relatively well maintained 747 to Iran?
Like it was done before via Armenia where they put random destinations into the flight plan and suddenly had to divert to an Iranian city. 24 later the plane will be already repainted.
 
lowfareair
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Tue May 28, 2019 5:39 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Well, it's owned by a Nigerian travel company and has the logo of a St. Vincent-based Beech 1900/King Air operator. This ought to be good.

The way I always see these things is:

To lease or buy, and maintain and operate, a B744, you need a lot of money.

People who have a lot of money are called rich people.

Rich people don't (usually) become rich because they are stupid.


Their stupidity won't usually make them rich, but that doesn't mean that rich people aren't stupid. I've seen my fair share of millionaires (and richer) that have money either from an inheritance or a single investment that paid for itself many times over.

This could absolutely be for something illicit, but there's always the chance that it's just a crazy airline idea being run by someone with more dollars than sense.
 
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novarupta
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New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Tue May 28, 2019 11:12 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
AF022 wrote:
Seems highly suspicious.

Grenadines is a British Commonwealth country, and they have a brand new international airport. This looks like someone making a big bet on the UK-Islands charter market.

Probably a lot of incentive money around for something like this, as well, starting with the World Bank. And a 20 year old 747 is not going to be an expensive lease. Not cheap to operate, of course, but likely dirt cheap to get, as wide-bodies go. Partner with a UK charter company, or two, and Ron Grenadines-UK once a week. Low utilization, low cycles makes the older airframe less of a challenge. Could work, with enough marketing and incentives.


It’s “St Vincent and the Grenadines”...the Grenadines by themselves aren’t a sovereign country...

From what I gathered it is another (charter) carrier based in Dubai, that will be operating under One Caribbean’s AOC - currently it’s only at Argyle awaiting reregistration before continuing onward to its operating base.

News784 isn’t considered the most reliable of news sites with regards to aviation (lots of sensationalism and poor grammar).
 
caribny
Posts: 82
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Tue May 28, 2019 3:35 pm

A380MSN004 wrote:
À "local investor" from St Vincent :) sounds like a joke


If he has SVG citizenship he is "local". The fact that SVG doesnt have a Citizenship By Invitation program means that such can be awarded by the PM as he pleases. One can bet that this person isnt SVG born.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Tue May 28, 2019 3:45 pm

bhxalex wrote:
To be used on a Daily SVD-DTW? As delta are clearly neglecting this huge market out of pure spite towards DTW.


You'd think the DTW jokes would get old...yet they still always makes me laugh. Well done sir :lol:
 
debonair
Posts: 3439
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:49 pm

Any updates so far? Is the B747 active or stored in SVD?
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 839
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Re: New 747-400 operator in St Vincent and the Grenadines? (SVD)

Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:44 pm

debonair wrote:
Any updates so far? Is the B747 active or stored in SVD?


Apparently, N508BB flew from SVD to Bridgetown/Grantley Adams (BGI) this past Sunday (30 June) as "8PERI" according to FlightRadar24:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... b#21193cb2

This was after the ship was ferried from VCV via PHX in late May.

So ... progress?

This was N508BB arriving at SVD on 24 May:

https://youtu.be/MbcmW-xbQRo
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
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