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Spacepope
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Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon May 27, 2019 3:05 pm

Just saw N320FE ferried to Victorville on Saturday. While checking the SDRs on this one (A touch over 100,000 hours and 30,000 cycles) it also appeared to have gone through a heavy check about 18 months ago. So I guess my question is, is she getting parked? Was she damaged? Is she just going in for paint? Usually retirements in fleets like this happen at a heavy maint interval, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon May 27, 2019 3:11 pm

According to planespotters, the MD-10 is there for storage. It's been operating since 1980 when it was delivered to SN as a -30CF, and joined FX in 1992.


https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... s/P3X4t1Eq
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon May 27, 2019 6:13 pm

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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon May 27, 2019 6:28 pm

It’ll probably poke out of its hole right after Thanksgiving to join the annual holiday rush.
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon May 27, 2019 6:29 pm

acjbbj wrote:


Not at all, really. It's not as if FedEx has to report the plane's impending retirement/storage to Airfleets.net before taking action.

I think we need to recognize that these are groups that do a good job of tracking SOME aircraft and types, but certainly not all. The FAA's own site isn't updated often for weeks after something happens, so one can hardly expect airfleets or planespotters to be immediately-accurate. In most cases, they don't know any more than we do about the whats and whys of an aircraft movement, including whether it's temporary or permanent..

I mean the more I think about it, the more amused I am:

"Hey, a plane moved to VCV yesterday. I wonder why it did that."
"I think it has been retired."
"That's funny, because Airfleets.net still show it as active."

WHAT?!
Last edited by wjcandee on Mon May 27, 2019 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon May 27, 2019 6:32 pm

Sorry, delete duplicate.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon May 27, 2019 7:14 pm

Appears to be stored, not retired.
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon May 27, 2019 7:16 pm

Moosefire wrote:
Appears to be stored, not retired.


How do we confirm it either way? Maybe HPRamper might have insight. What we know is that it's not far out of a heavy check and it ferried yesterday on a FX 9XXX flight number (those are usually non rev ferry flights.
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon May 27, 2019 7:31 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Moosefire wrote:
Appears to be stored, not retired.


How do we confirm it either way? Maybe HPRamper might have insight. What we know is that it's not far out of a heavy check and it ferried yesterday on a FX 9XXX flight number (those are usually non rev ferry flights.


I fly the MD-10
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon May 27, 2019 9:05 pm

I send updates to airfleets regularly.

I would not rely on it as a sole source.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon May 27, 2019 9:11 pm

Moosefire wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Moosefire wrote:
Appears to be stored, not retired.


How do we confirm it either way? Maybe HPRamper might have insight. What we know is that it's not far out of a heavy check and it ferried yesterday on a FX 9XXX flight number (those are usually non rev ferry flights.


I fly the MD-10


Aha, I get it. That is a very good answer. Thanks!
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon May 27, 2019 10:34 pm

Lack of demand for that model aircraft's capacity at this time and using more a more efficient model (like a 767).
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 1:26 am

Just to nitpick here: N320FE is no longer a DC-10-30, but a MD-10-30F. There are quite a bit of difference between the DC-10 and the MD-10 to warrant a change in Aircraft Type.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 3:47 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Just to nitpick here: N320FE is no longer a DC-10-30, but a MD-10-30F. There are quite a bit of difference between the DC-10 and the MD-10 to warrant a change in Aircraft Type.


Aft of the cockpit, what differences are there between an MD-10 and a DC-10F?
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 4:02 am

wjcandee wrote:
acjbbj wrote:


Not at all, really. It's not as if FedEx has to report the plane's impending retirement/storage to Airfleets.net before taking action.

*snip*

"Hey, a plane moved to VCV yesterday. I wonder why it did that."
"I think it has been retired."
"That's funny, because Airfleets.net still show it as active."

WHAT?!


Thank you! The amount of times I see the "but Airfleets says THIS!" statement around here, clearly a lot of people don't realize that those sites rely on normal people like us to submit updates to them.
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 5:07 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Just to nitpick here: N320FE is no longer a DC-10-30, but a MD-10-30F. There are quite a bit of difference between the DC-10 and the MD-10 to warrant a change in Aircraft Type.

It’s the same plane with a new cockpit and no FE. It’s still a DC-10.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 5:41 am

BAeRJ100 wrote:
Thank you! The amount of times I see the "but Airfleets says THIS!" statement around here, clearly a lot of people don't realize that those sites rely on normal people like us to submit updates to them.


Exactly.

Looking at my post maybe I came across as a little douchier than I intended, but you got my point exactly. These are (amazing) volunteer sites that collect a lot of information and update very comprehensive databases. On the narrow band of fleets that I follow, planespotters always seems to be a little ahead of airfleets, and I submit a fair number of changes to planespotters as things are happening that I know about. Sometimes, they flag it until the thing happens; sometimes the thing is happening and they can see it from the info I submit, so they update it immediately. And when things happen out of normal view, there is just no way for them to know it happened.

Example: I was looking for a recent photo of a particular aircraft, and google pointed me to a service that collects Instagram photos, which happened to have a great, recent one at an airport where we don't see a lot of publicly-posted photos. Curious whether he had photographed anything else interesting, I clicked on the photographer's instagram, and realized that he was a firefighter at that airport who regularly takes photos (some great, some just decent) of aircraft at that airport. However, he just puts them on his instagram with pictures of dogs and trucks and a bunch of other stuff he cares about, and doesn't bother with any curated photo sites like a.net. Turns out that his Instagram was a treasure trove of info about stuff happening at that airport, including answers to questions about the status of several aircraft I was curious about. For example, he had documented the parting-out and month-later beer-can-ization of a particular 757; this at an airport that doesn't regularly do the latter. So I sent an update to planespotters, because absent those photos, nobody outside of a particular company would have known that that had happened.

Regardless, planespotters and airfleets do an incredible, scrupulous job but the airlines and leasing companies themselves know stuff that they don't, complicated by the fact that plans change regularly, no way around it.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 6:18 am

Spacepope wrote:
Just saw N320FE ferried to Victorville on Saturday. While checking the SDRs on this one (A touch over 100,000 hours and 30,000 cycles) it also appeared to have gone through a heavy check about 18 months ago. So I guess my question is, is she getting parked? Was she damaged? Is she just going in for paint? Usually retirements in fleets like this happen at a heavy maint interval, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

It could be something as simple as the Center tank Inerting system.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 10:29 am

strfyr51 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Just saw N320FE ferried to Victorville on Saturday. While checking the SDRs on this one (A touch over 100,000 hours and 30,000 cycles) it also appeared to have gone through a heavy check about 18 months ago. So I guess my question is, is she getting parked? Was she damaged? Is she just going in for paint? Usually retirements in fleets like this happen at a heavy maint interval, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

It could be something as simple as the Center tank Inerting system.

They wouldn't do it at VCV, it would come to MAE to have that done. This is the only facility in the states that works on their 10's. Got one here now plus an 11
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 10:46 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Just to nitpick here: N320FE is no longer a DC-10-30, but a MD-10-30F. There are quite a bit of difference between the DC-10 and the MD-10 to warrant a change in Aircraft Type.

Tell that to the air traffic controllers. I've always heard them refer to it as a DC-10, never once heard them refer to it as an MD-10. Aside from the change in flight deck and eliminating the flight engineer, I don't know that there's anything else different between a DC-10 and an MD-10.
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 1:45 pm

UA444 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Just to nitpick here: N320FE is no longer a DC-10-30, but a MD-10-30F. There are quite a bit of difference between the DC-10 and the MD-10 to warrant a change in Aircraft Type.

It’s the same plane with a new cockpit and no FE. It’s still a DC-10.

The FAA obviously considered the differences are significant enough to add the model to the DC-10/MD-11 TCDS, and requires additional identification per the same TCDS:
NOTE 26: Upon completion of the modification from DC-10-10/-10F, DC-10-30/-30F to MD-10-10F, MD10-30F, respectively, in accordance with Douglas Aircraft Drawing SP10250349 or SP10250354, a data plate must be installed adjacent to the existing data plate in accordance with Douglas Aircraft Drawing No. SP10510226 or SP10530234.



AirKevin wrote:
Tell that to the air traffic controllers. I've always heard them refer to it as a DC-10, never once heard them refer to it as an MD-10. Aside from the change in flight deck and eliminating the flight engineer, I don't know that there's anything else different between a DC-10 and an MD-10.

Because the ATC's do not use the proper identification makes it OK? ICAO & IATA decided not to assign the specific designator to the MD-10; but the FAA has decided otherwise, and they are the ones who issue airworthiness of those planes.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 2:12 pm

Call it by either name. Everyone knows what you mean.
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 3:07 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
UA444 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Just to nitpick here: N320FE is no longer a DC-10-30, but a MD-10-30F. There are quite a bit of difference between the DC-10 and the MD-10 to warrant a change in Aircraft Type.

It’s the same plane with a new cockpit and no FE. It’s still a DC-10.

The FAA obviously considered the differences are significant enough to add the model to the DC-10/MD-11 TCDS, and requires additional identification per the same TCDS:
NOTE 26: Upon completion of the modification from DC-10-10/-10F, DC-10-30/-30F to MD-10-10F, MD10-30F, respectively, in accordance with Douglas Aircraft Drawing SP10250349 or SP10250354, a data plate must be installed adjacent to the existing data plate in accordance with Douglas Aircraft Drawing No. SP10510226 or SP10530234.



AirKevin wrote:
Tell that to the air traffic controllers. I've always heard them refer to it as a DC-10, never once heard them refer to it as an MD-10. Aside from the change in flight deck and eliminating the flight engineer, I don't know that there's anything else different between a DC-10 and an MD-10.

Because the ATC's do not use the proper identification makes it OK? ICAO & IATA decided not to assign the specific designator to the MD-10; but the FAA has decided otherwise, and they are the ones who issue airworthiness of those planes.


Yet Flightaware continues to call them DC-10s. There's only so far you can get into semantics without ending up sounding pedantic. I mean, it's not like someone's calling a KC-135 a 707. Now that would be an unholy sacrilege.

Anyway back on topic. Is there anywhere where we can see Fedex's fleet plan for the next little while? The most recent update I had was several years old and included the retirement of several DC-10s that later went through a heavy check and got pressed into further service. Are the 767s now coming in enough numbers to replace a few -10s and the wetleased ATI 763Fs?
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 3:28 pm

Agreed on the pedantry.

Does ATI still have aircraft on FedEx this far after Peak? I thought all they had now was one 763 on UPS. ABX took over the other UPS run with a 762.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 3:38 pm

No current wet leased aircraft
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Tue May 28, 2019 7:03 pm

Parked short term due to landing gear time out, awaiting gear along with N304FE
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Thu May 30, 2019 3:16 pm

wrenchon727 wrote:
Parked short term due to landing gear time out, awaiting gear along with N304FE

Are short term parked planes taken out of the system for view? 304 is in MEM showing parts + 7days, 320 is at VCV and gone from the FRIS screen altogether. aGIS shows the standard "STORAGE VISIT" but also an entry for "SP-V GEAR-ALL."
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Fri May 31, 2019 1:39 am

So Airfleets no longer shows it to be active. It is now stored. I saw it at RDU (my home airport) a few years ago. It's funny because out of the MD-10 fleet, they had been retiring the -10s like crazy. They were being sent to VCV a lot; however, this is the first -30 to be retired for a long time. Prior to the storage of N320FE on Saturday, the last -30 series retirement was N317FE, which took place over 4 years ago (May 13, 2015). Big gap between the -30 retirements.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Fri May 31, 2019 2:30 am

NickLovesToFly wrote:
So Airfleets no longer shows it to be active. It is now stored. I saw it at RDU (my home airport) a few years ago. It's funny because out of the MD-10 fleet, they had been retiring the -10s like crazy. They were being sent to VCV a lot; however, this is the first -30 to be retired for a long time. Prior to the storage of N320FE on Saturday, the last -30 series retirement was N317FE, which took place over 4 years ago (May 13, 2015). Big gap between the -30 retirements.


I'd imagine CF6-6 engines are getting pretty hard to find and expensive to make spares for nowadays, and since the DC-10-10 was the only airliner to use them, that might have been driving its retirement schedule.
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Fri May 31, 2019 11:23 pm

Here it is, in better times, in a much better livery though not yet delivered to its next user, hence the registration. The first of three former SN DC-10s to join FX that year.

 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:42 am

NickLovesToFly wrote:
So Airfleets no longer shows it to be active. It is now stored. I saw it at RDU (my home airport) a few years ago. It's funny because out of the MD-10 fleet, they had been retiring the -10s like crazy. They were being sent to VCV a lot; however, this is the first -30 to be retired for a long time. Prior to the storage of N320FE on Saturday, the last -30 series retirement was N317FE, which took place over 4 years ago (May 13, 2015). Big gap between the -30 retirements.


If I am reading what the actual FedEx employees say correctly, the aircraft is not retired.

Read above what we say about airfleets; it is not some kind of official source.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:23 am

As wrenchon said, 320 is not stored, it is getting some heavy mx done. Whoever updates Airfleets probably just assumed any movement to VCV meant retirement. To be fair, that's what most of us figure especially with MD-10s.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:19 pm

HPRamper wrote:
As wrenchon said, 320 is not stored, it is getting some heavy mx done. Whoever updates Airfleets probably just assumed any movement to VCV meant retirement. To be fair, that's what most of us figure especially with MD-10s.


Yes, I see that now. In fact, other MD-10s have been sent to VCV and then later back out of VCV. It happened with N375FE in the first half of 2010 and N360FE in 2014.
Last edited by NickLovesToFly on Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:47 pm

NickLovesToFly wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
As wrenchon said, 320 is not stored, it is getting some heavy mx done. Whoever updates Airfleets probably just assumed any movement to VCV meant retirement. To be fair, that's what most of us figure especially with MD-10s.


Yes, I got that; however, Planespotters.net also shows that it is stored. It tends to be a lot more accurate. That being said, it is still possible for them to make the same mistake.


Based on the track record of several posters on this thread, I take their reports much more seriously than those websites.
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:51 pm

Yes, I agree. Plus, if you look at the age and cycles of all the MD-10s, N320FE should probably be one of the last ones to be retired. I imagine the MD-10s will be around, in some capacity, for a few more years. From what I heard someone else say, it sounds like N375FE and N383FE (both -10 series aircraft) are next in line to be retired after they get a few more 767s.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:25 pm

NickLovesToFly wrote:
Yes, I agree. Plus, if you look at the age and cycles of all the MD-10s, N320FE should probably be one of the last ones to be retired. I imagine the MD-10s will be around, in some capacity, for a few more years. From what I heard someone else say, it sounds like N375FE and N383FE (both -10 series aircraft) are next in line to be retired after they get a few more 767s.

Yep, the 10-10s are supposed to be retired before the -30s even though there are currently more -10s in the fleet. The -10s are a bit younger overall, and are a lot more flexible in terms of payload and range. The -10s are sometimes weight restricted on even medium stage lengths.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:25 pm

HPRamper wrote:
NickLovesToFly wrote:
Yes, I agree. Plus, if you look at the age and cycles of all the MD-10s, N320FE should probably be one of the last ones to be retired. I imagine the MD-10s will be around, in some capacity, for a few more years. From what I heard someone else say, it sounds like N375FE and N383FE (both -10 series aircraft) are next in line to be retired after they get a few more 767s.

Yep, the 10-10s are supposed to be retired before the -30s even though there are currently more -10s in the fleet. The -10s are a bit younger overall, and are a lot more flexible in terms of payload and range. The -10s are sometimes weight restricted on even medium stage lengths.


When you said "The -10s are a bit younger overall, and are a lot more flexible in terms of payload and range," did you perhaps intend to say the -30s?
Also, the retirement of the fleet has been delayed a bit, as often happens with these airlines. The initial plan was actually to have all the -10s gone by now. But obviously that's not the case, cause they're keeping them a bit longer.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:36 am

NickLovesToFly wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
NickLovesToFly wrote:
Yes, I agree. Plus, if you look at the age and cycles of all the MD-10s, N320FE should probably be one of the last ones to be retired. I imagine the MD-10s will be around, in some capacity, for a few more years. From what I heard someone else say, it sounds like N375FE and N383FE (both -10 series aircraft) are next in line to be retired after they get a few more 767s.

Yep, the 10-10s are supposed to be retired before the -30s even though there are currently more -10s in the fleet. The -10s are a bit younger overall, and are a lot more flexible in terms of payload and range. The -10s are sometimes weight restricted on even medium stage lengths.


When you said "The -10s are a bit younger overall, and are a lot more flexible in terms of payload and range," did you perhaps intend to say the -30s?
Also, the retirement of the fleet has been delayed a bit, as often happens with these airlines. The initial plan was actually to have all the -10s gone by now. But obviously that's not the case, cause they're keeping them a bit longer.

Sorry yeah, I meant to say the -30s. I was writing this at work and a bit hurried. Thank you!
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:20 pm

MD10‑30(F) 47835 326 N320FE FedEx ferried 17sep19 VCV-BFM prior return to svc ex OO-SLD (skyliner)


https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n320fe
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:08 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
MD10‑30(F) 47835 326 N320FE FedEx ferried 17sep19 VCV-BFM prior return to svc ex OO-SLD (skyliner)


https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n320fe


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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:17 pm

wrenchon727 wrote:
Parked short term due to landing gear time out, awaiting gear along with from which to overhaul exchange with

Once they get the overhauled Landing gear, it should be 3 weeks return to service as there are not many DC-10 nor MD-10 operators to Overhaul-Exchange with.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:46 pm

FedEx Has announced that they are retiring or parking as many as 35 planes due to dropping demand. So we will probably see some of these ending up in the desert fairly soon.

FedEx to park 35 planes on weaker demand
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1431517
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:41 am

Spacepope wrote:
Just saw N320FE ferried to Victorville on Saturday. While checking the SDRs on this one (A touch over 100,000 hours and 30,000 cycles) it also appeared to have gone through a heavy check about 18 months ago. So I guess my question is, is she getting parked? Was she damaged? Is she just going in for paint? Usually retirements in fleets like this happen at a heavy maint interval, but that doesn't seem to be the case.


Maybe due to FedEx loosing the Amazon contract as they increase their own fleet. When capacity needs drop and they park frames just like everyone else.
 
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Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:52 am

arvo wrote:
FedEx Has announced that they are retiring or parking as many as 35 planes due to dropping demand. So we will probably see some of these ending up in the desert fairly soon.

FedEx to park 35 planes on weaker demand
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1431517

They are parking the MD-10-10 fleet, not the -30s.
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KFTG
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:04 am

Does FX routinely use the center gear on the -30?
 
dispatchguy
Posts: 626
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:08 am

Re: Fate of FedEx DC-10-30 N320FE

Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:08 pm

The Center LG on the -30 is standard. When it is deferred locked up there are some pretty significant weight restrictions that come into play.
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