https://www.flightradar24.com/DLH1PA/20acd6be

DAIPA (MSN0069, built 1989) just on her last flight for LH after 29 years! She left Frankfurt for a roundtrip to HAM and made some circles over XFW where she was "Born".
Bye Bye old fellow!

how much 320s already scrapped?

viewtopic.php?t=1390723
this plane noted in previous topic

How many cycles and Hours? I've read she is being retired on hours. That doesn't mean 120,000 FH were used, it means not enough remain for the due heavy maintenance to justify spending millions to keep her flying.

Lightsaber

so this is a first a320 retired because of hours/cycles?

Armadillo1 wrote:

so this is a first a320 retired because of hours/cycles?

I doubt it, some of the original Air Inter and AF -100 frames spent their lives on French domestic routes although most were scrapped over 10 years ago now they would have knocked up a fair few cycles.

Armadillo1 wrote:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1390723
this plane noted in previous topic

My own thread too.. (and link), this frame MSN 0069 had the highest cycles one year ago (51,000). Assuming 6 flights or so per day, that puts her at about 53,000 cycles (my estimate).

If I had remembered my own post (hey, I have kids!) I would know her sister MSN 0068 had the record hours at 81,000 a year ago. Assuming 0069 was a close 2nd, at 8.5 hours per day, we would be at 84,000 FH at most.

So the decision is that there are not enough FC remaining to justify a heavy maintenance. Oops, I was off (hours cannot be a factor).

Lightsaber

Amazing how long LH kept these birds flying

This a/c is scheduled to Brussels as LH1004 tomorrow. According to https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/lufthansa, it will be gone on Saturday.

Armadillo1 wrote:

how much 320s already scrapped?

More than a few. https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... 0/A320-200

Will it be preserved in a museum as the first A320 of LH?

A321Lufthansa wrote:

Will it be preserved in a museum as the first A320 of LH?

Few airlines do that globally, LH included.

Michael

A321Lufthansa wrote:

Will it be preserved in a museum as the first A320 of LH?

Maybe the Spreyer museum? As far as I know LH doesn't have its own museum.

Honestly...is an A 320 so spectacular and worth seeing in a museum , if there are still thousands of them flying around - even if it was first one of Lufthansa?

AirbusOnly wrote:

https://www.flightradar24.com/DLH1PA/20acd6be

DAIPA (MSN0069, built 1989) just on her last flight for LH after 29 years! She left Frankfurt for a roundtrip to HAM and made some circles over XFW where she was "Born".
Bye Bye old fellow!

To my knowlegde, all A320 (not 318/19/21) have been assembled in Toulouse until 2008.

Farewell, fellow!

Fun facts: At the time this aircraft was built

- The Berlin wall was still erect (and would fall only 3 months later)
- There was no WWW. The first WWW server would go online 2 years later (CERN).
- World population was approx. 5.2 billion. We are standing at 7.7 billion at time of this writing.
- There were less than 8'000 commercial airliners in operation. Today we are counting about 30'000
- Airbus built 58 A320s in 1989. That figure would rise to almost 500 units (all versions) per year in the mid-2010s.
- There were 18 fatal accidents for 13 million flights. (I don't have the most current numbers, but it's looking a LOT better today).

So, while this aircraft looks very much like any other plane out there, the world around it has changed tremendously!

Hendric

This aircraft will be disassembled at Sofia soon.

lightsaber wrote:

How many cycles and Hours? I've read she is being retired on hours. That doesn't mean 120,000 FH were used, it means not enough remain for the due heavy maintenance to justify spending millions to keep her flying.

Lightsaber

That bird has roughly 71k hours, so that's not an issue given the 120k limit. Cycles would require the ESG next year. However the big checks are due for the early MSNs and that's why they're phased out

Agent wrote:

AirbusOnly wrote:

https://www.flightradar24.com/DLH1PA/20acd6be

DAIPA (MSN0069, built 1989) just on her last flight for LH after 29 years! She left Frankfurt for a roundtrip to HAM and made some circles over XFW where she was "Born".
Bye Bye old fellow!

To my knowlegde, all A320 (not 318/19/21) have been assembled in Toulouse until 2008.

Farewell, fellow!

It was probably flying over Buxtehude (next to Finkenweder) after which it was named.

lightsaber wrote:

Armadillo1 wrote:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1390723
this plane noted in previous topic

My own thread too.. (and link), this frame MSN 0069 had the highest cycles one year ago (51,000). Assuming 6 flights or so per day, that puts her at about 53,000 cycles (my estimate).

If I had remembered my own post (hey, I have kids!) I would know her sister MSN 0068 had the record hours at 81,000 a year ago. Assuming 0069 was a close 2nd, at 8.5 hours per day, we would be at 84,000 FH at most.

So the decision is that there are not enough FC remaining to justify a heavy maintenance. Oops, I was off (hours cannot be a factor).

Lightsaber

Northwest Airlines the first North American A320 operator retired many DC-9s with more than 1000,000 cycles. Will any A320s ever reach 100,000 cycles?

Crazy. I remember seeing a article from ‘95 or so describing the a320 as state of the art. Now, they’re being scrapped. Imagine what this will be like for the 787!

NWAROOSTER wrote:

Northwest Airlines the first North American A320 operator retired many DC-9s with more than 1000,000 cycles. :

can you appoint some?

NWAROOSTER wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Armadillo1 wrote:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1390723
this plane noted in previous topic

My own thread too.. (and link), this frame MSN 0069 had the highest cycles one year ago (51,000). Assuming 6 flights or so per day, that puts her at about 53,000 cycles (my estimate).

If I had remembered my own post (hey, I have kids!) I would know her sister MSN 0068 had the record hours at 81,000 a year ago. Assuming 0069 was a close 2nd, at 8.5 hours per day, we would be at 84,000 FH at most.

So the decision is that there are not enough FC remaining to justify a heavy maintenance. Oops, I was off (hours cannot be a factor).

Lightsaber

Northwest Airlines the first North American A320 operator retired many DC-9s with more than 1000,000 cycles. Will any A320s ever reach 100,000 cycles?

As they say, the only thing that grounds a DC-9/MD-80 is the price of fuel.

NWAROOSTER wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Armadillo1 wrote:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1390723
this plane noted in previous topic

My own thread too.. (and link), this frame MSN 0069 had the highest cycles one year ago (51,000). Assuming 6 flights or so per day, that puts her at about 53,000 cycles (my estimate).

If I had remembered my own post (hey, I have kids!) I would know her sister MSN 0068 had the record hours at 81,000 a year ago. Assuming 0069 was a close 2nd, at 8.5 hours per day, we would be at 84,000 FH at most.

So the decision is that there are not enough FC remaining to justify a heavy maintenance. Oops, I was off (hours cannot be a factor).

Lightsaber

Northwest Airlines the first North American A320 operator retired many DC-9s with more than 1000,000 cycles. Will any A320s ever reach 100,000 cycles?

Northwest was capital-constrained from the time of Checchi. It shouldn't be a point of pride.

MIflyer12 wrote:

Armadillo1 wrote:

how much 320s already scrapped?

More than a few. https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... 0/A320-200

Thanks for that. I was shocked a few weeks ago to see LN 29 ferrying for wet lease to Cubana.

From your link, it looks like the oldest one flying in the US is Delta's N312US (SN 152). As of December she had just over 84,000 hours and 38,000 cycles.

D-AIPA is leaving Germany on June 1 probably for the scrapped yard. 4 more is planned to leave later this year according to the site I found below.

https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/lufthansa

NWAROOSTER wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Armadillo1 wrote:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1390723
this plane noted in previous topic

My own thread too.. (and link), this frame MSN 0069 had the highest cycles one year ago (51,000). Assuming 6 flights or so per day, that puts her at about 53,000 cycles (my estimate).

If I had remembered my own post (hey, I have kids!) I would know her sister MSN 0068 had the record hours at 81,000 a year ago. Assuming 0069 was a close 2nd, at 8.5 hours per day, we would be at 84,000 FH at most.

So the decision is that there are not enough FC remaining to justify a heavy maintenance. Oops, I was off (hours cannot be a factor).

Lightsaber

Northwest Airlines the first North American A320 operator retired many DC-9s with more than 1000,000 cycles. Will any A320s ever reach 100,000 cycles?

Do you have a link? HA flew DC-9s to almost 100k cycles. We've had many discussions on this topic and none exceeded 100 FC. Did you mean FH?

Lightsaber

Spacepope wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Armadillo1 wrote:

how much 320s already scrapped?

More than a few. https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... 0/A320-200

Thanks for that. I was shocked a few weeks ago to see LN 29 ferrying for wet lease to Cubana.

From your link, it looks like the oldest one flying in the US is Delta's N312US (SN 152). As of December she had just over 84,000 hours and 38,000 cycles.

Spacepope, how did you find hours/cycles?

This is more in line with the ratio of hours to cycles I expected, but I would like to dive through data.

Lightsaber

1988 factor!

Spacepope wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Armadillo1 wrote:

how much 320s already scrapped?

More than a few. https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... 0/A320-200

Thanks for that. I was shocked a few weeks ago to see LN 29 ferrying for wet lease to Cubana.

From your link, it looks like the oldest one flying in the US is Delta's N312US (SN 152). As of December she had just over 84,000 hours and 38,000 cycles.

DL might have the oldest 320 with a US carrier, but AC fly to the US nine of their 320s with MSNs older than 152, with 59 being the eldest and is currently enroute to LGA.

However, isn’t MSN 118 still active at DL?

lightsaber wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

More than a few. https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... 0/A320-200

Thanks for that. I was shocked a few weeks ago to see LN 29 ferrying for wet lease to Cubana.

From your link, it looks like the oldest one flying in the US is Delta's N312US (SN 152). As of December she had just over 84,000 hours and 38,000 cycles.

Spacepope, how did you find hours/cycles?

This is more in line with the ratio of hours to cycles I expected, but I would like to dive through data.

Lightsaber

I just plugged the registration into the FAA SDR page. Here’s the link https://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx I looked at UA’s oldest frames, and they’re roughly comparable in hours (78-79000 in early 2017, so low 80s now heading to mid 80s by year end) to DLs newest 320s.

Dominion301 wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

More than a few. https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... 0/A320-200

Thanks for that. I was shocked a few weeks ago to see LN 29 ferrying for wet lease to Cubana.

From your link, it looks like the oldest one flying in the US is Delta's N312US (SN 152). As of December she had just over 84,000 hours and 38,000 cycles.

DL might have the oldest 320 with a US carrier, but AC fly to the US nine of their 320s with MSNs older than 152, with 59 being the eldest and is currently enroute to LGA.

However, isn’t MSN 118 still active at DL?

You’re right, N309US had a heavy check in February of last year, based on the SDRs. About 83,000 hours and nearly 38,000 cycles.

Does the Canadian government have any method of checking this sort of info on their registry?

Spacepope wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

Thanks for that. I was shocked a few weeks ago to see LN 29 ferrying for wet lease to Cubana.

From your link, it looks like the oldest one flying in the US is Delta's N312US (SN 152). As of December she had just over 84,000 hours and 38,000 cycles.

DL might have the oldest 320 with a US carrier, but AC fly to the US nine of their 320s with MSNs older than 152, with 59 being the eldest and is currently enroute to LGA.

However, isn’t MSN 118 still active at DL?

You’re right, N309US had a heavy check in February of last year, based on the SDRs. About 83,000 hours and nearly 38,000 cycles.

Does the Canadian government have any method of checking this sort of info on their registry?

Not that I’m aware of. Here is the link to Transport Canada’s civil aircraft registry searchable database: https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/2/ ... hSimp.aspx

LDRA wrote:

1988 factor!

Damn right

...and you bet D-AIPA is just as good as any CEO rolling off the line now, as they are nearly identical down to the LRU and subassembly level.

Dominion301 wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

DL might have the oldest 320 with a US carrier, but AC fly to the US nine of their 320s with MSNs older than 152, with 59 being the eldest and is currently enroute to LGA.

However, isn’t MSN 118 still active at DL?

You’re right, N309US had a heavy check in February of last year, based on the SDRs. About 83,000 hours and nearly 38,000 cycles.

Does the Canadian government have any method of checking this sort of info on their registry?

Not that I’m aware of. Here is the link to Transport Canada’s civil aircraft registry searchable database: https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/2/ ... hSimp.aspx

I’ll check it out in the morning. The brits have G-INFO which is also pretty good as it’s usually more up to date than the SDR reports (which are only generated when needed)

Pretty darn good run. The first gens are probably going to start finding their way out of service pretty rapidly in the next few years. A lot of old 319/320 birds at AA, DL, and UA.

Spacepope wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

Thanks for that. I was shocked a few weeks ago to see LN 29 ferrying for wet lease to Cubana.

From your link, it looks like the oldest one flying in the US is Delta's N312US (SN 152). As of December she had just over 84,000 hours and 38,000 cycles.

Spacepope, how did you find hours/cycles?

This is more in line with the ratio of hours to cycles I expected, but I would like to dive through data.

Lightsaber

I just plugged the registration into the FAA SDR page. Here’s the link https://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx I looked at UA’s oldest frames, and they’re roughly comparable in hours (78-79000 in early 2017, so low 80s now heading to mid 80s by year end) to DLs newest 320s.

Facinating link. It shows how young aircraft are retired compared to most capability.

Lightsaber

hitower3 wrote:

Fun facts: At the time this aircraft was built

- The Berlin wall was still erect (and would fall only 3 months later)
- There was no WWW. The first WWW server would go online 2 years later (CERN).
- World population was approx. 5.2 billion. We are standing at 7.7 billion at time of this writing.
- There were less than 8'000 commercial airliners in operation. Today we are counting about 30'000
- Airbus built 58 A320s in 1989. That figure would rise to almost 500 units (all versions) per year in the mid-2010s.
- There were 18 fatal accidents for 13 million flights. (I don't have the most current numbers, but it's looking a LOT better today).

So, while this aircraft looks very much like any other plane out there, the world around it has changed tremendously!

Hendric

A few years ago I found an old container for cutting tool inserts that said "made in West Germany". It made me feel excited, I'm used to finding antique oddities stashed away at work but the concept of a split Germany is so foreign to me I found this find to be particularly unique.

RB211trent wrote:

It was probably flying over Buxtehude (next to Finkenweder) after which it was named.

It did, intentional or not, Buxtehude lies directly under the flighpath when leaving XFW to the South. I guess unintentional, otherwise a flyover of Stade, just 10 miles away would also have been warranted as that factory produces all vertical stabilizers for Airbus.

MIflyer12 wrote:

NWAROOSTER wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

My own thread too.. (and link), this frame MSN 0069 had the highest cycles one year ago (51,000). Assuming 6 flights or so per day, that puts her at about 53,000 cycles (my estimate).

If I had remembered my own post (hey, I have kids!) I would know her sister MSN 0068 had the record hours at 81,000 a year ago. Assuming 0069 was a close 2nd, at 8.5 hours per day, we would be at 84,000 FH at most.

So the decision is that there are not enough FC remaining to justify a heavy maintenance. Oops, I was off (hours cannot be a factor).

Lightsaber

Northwest Airlines the first North American A320 operator retired many DC-9s with more than 1000,000 cycles. Will any A320s ever reach 100,000 cycles?

Northwest was capital-constrained from the time of Checchi. It shouldn't be a point of pride.

The DC-9 was bullet proof. It is absolutely a point of pride. It also fit their system well. They also didn’t get drunk on RJs in the 1990s, which made it nice getting into those smaller Midwest markets.

lightsaber wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Spacepope, how did you find hours/cycles?

This is more in line with the ratio of hours to cycles I expected, but I would like to dive through data.

Lightsaber

I just plugged the registration into the FAA SDR page. Here’s the link https://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx I looked at UA’s oldest frames, and they’re roughly comparable in hours (78-79000 in early 2017, so low 80s now heading to mid 80s by year end) to DLs newest 320s.

Facinating link. It shows how young aircraft are retired compared to most capability.

Lightsaber

Yes, it just goes to show how even though one *COULD* run an airframe longer, it gets more expensive and you end up with death by accountant.

Looking at Jetblue, their oldest went through a heavy check last October and had 73,600 hours. Same with the oldest former America West frames at AA, but the comparable age oldest ex-US ones at AA only have about 50,000 hours (similar to the ex-Frontier A319s coming in). Spirit's are just babies.

What this is showing is that while some US operators are running their early examples hard, there's a lot of parked airframes with a lot of life in them to be had for running out 10 years plus. Even in the SN1000-2000 range like Allegiant was picking up. Sub 1000 though, they are prime for breaking up at their next HMV. Parts are just too valuable.

DL717 wrote:

Pretty darn good run. The first gens are probably going to start finding their way out of service pretty rapidly in the next few years. A lot of old 319/320 birds at AA, DL, and UA.

The oldest A320s are already gone. About 80% of A320s built in the 1980s are out of service. Lufthansa was one of the very few airlines flying A320s this long. American (US Airways) and Delta (Northwest) scrapped their 1980s vintage A320s years ago.

Spacepope wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

I just plugged the registration into the FAA SDR page. Here’s the link https://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx I looked at UA’s oldest frames, and they’re roughly comparable in hours (78-79000 in early 2017, so low 80s now heading to mid 80s by year end) to DLs newest 320s.

Facinating link. It shows how young aircraft are retired compared to most capability.

Lightsaber

Yes, it just goes to show how even though one *COULD* run an airframe longer, it gets more expensive and you end up with death by accountant.

Looking at Jetblue, their oldest went through a heavy check last October and had 73,600 hours. Same with the oldest former America West frames at AA, but the comparable age oldest ex-US ones at AA only have about 50,000 hours (similar to the ex-Frontier A319s coming in). Spirit's are just babies.

What this is showing is that while some US operators are running their early examples hard, there's a lot of parked airframes with a lot of life in them to be had for running out 10 years plus. Even in the SN1000-2000 range like Allegiant was picking up. Sub 1000 though, they are prime for breaking up at their next HMV. Parts are just too valuable.

I like death by accountant.

The older A320s need structure now installed at the factory for the extension from 48,000 FC and 60,000FH to 60,000FC and 120,000FH. That structure allows Sharklets, so JetBlue is unique. Hours are also cheaper than cycles.

However the longer LOVs extend service intervals making it more economical to fly another Heavy maintenance interval. As those intervals are now 40,000 FH/20,000 FC or 12 years.

A heavy check on 73,600 FH implies JetBlue intends to take that A320 to near LOV. I can guarantee it will be scrapped the next expensive finding. However, we should expect to see 110,000 FH of use, or at least without knowing this aircraft's history, what I hope for. Very excellent duty.

Certain airlines fly longer. It is duty, environment, and maintenance plan.

There is still talk of another LOV test to extend service intervals. The 90,000FC, 180,000FH testing failed. I've heard rumors that cycles were the issue. So I hear noise about a 75,000 FC, 150,000FH test.

Or 72,000FC (same hours) to minimize risk. Who knows.

Lightsaber

Agent wrote:

AirbusOnly wrote:

https://www.flightradar24.com/DLH1PA/20acd6be

DAIPA (MSN0069, built 1989) just on her last flight for LH after 29 years! She left Frankfurt for a roundtrip to HAM and made some circles over XFW where she was "Born".
Bye Bye old fellow!

To my knowlegde, all A320 (not 318/19/21) have been assembled in Toulouse until 2008.

Farewell, fellow!

XFW did not have a FAL at that time, but a lot of pre FAL work was done there, like building parts of the fuselage.

ORDfan101 wrote:

Crazy. I remember seeing a article from ‘95 or so describing the a320 as state of the art. Now, they’re being scrapped. Imagine what this will be like for the 787!

Why is retiring an almost thirty year old aircraft crazy? You do realize that 1995 is already 24 years ago?

What do you mean with "imagine what this will be like for the 787"? The 787 will be retired also, probably after less years than this A320.

TTailedTiger wrote:

NWAROOSTER wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

My own thread too.. (and link), this frame MSN 0069 had the highest cycles one year ago (51,000). Assuming 6 flights or so per day, that puts her at about 53,000 cycles (my estimate).

If I had remembered my own post (hey, I have kids!) I would know her sister MSN 0068 had the record hours at 81,000 a year ago. Assuming 0069 was a close 2nd, at 8.5 hours per day, we would be at 84,000 FH at most.

So the decision is that there are not enough FC remaining to justify a heavy maintenance. Oops, I was off (hours cannot be a factor).

Lightsaber

Northwest Airlines the first North American A320 operator retired many DC-9s with more than 1000,000 cycles. Will any A320s ever reach 100,000 cycles?

As they say, the only thing that grounds a DC-9/MD-80 is the price of fuel.

"The crew of the A-320 be ferried back in a DC-9" lol

MartijnNL wrote:

ORDfan101 wrote:

Crazy. I remember seeing a article from ‘95 or so describing the a320 as state of the art. Now, they’re being scrapped. Imagine what this will be like for the 787!

Why is retiring an almost thirty year old aircraft crazy? You do realize that 1995 is already 24 years ago?

What do you mean with "imagine what this will be like for the 787"? The 787 will be retired also, probably after less years than this A320.

No it’ll be weird because I’ll remember that when I was younger, it was state of the art

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

lightsaber wrote:

There is still talk of another LOV test to extend service intervals. The 90,000FC, 180,000FH testing failed. I've heard rumors that cycles were the issue. So I hear noise about a 75,000 FC, 150,000FH test.

Or 72,000FC (same hours) to minimize risk. Who knows.

Lightsaber

That's interesting. If the 90,000FC testing failed, which frame would they use to run the 75k FC testing? It's not like they have a stock of ground test frames.

What a fantastic ahievement for an airplane that began with a 60,000 FH/20,000 FC limit. The ESG program has obviously been very successful.

34 years ago I was one of those snarky brainwashed Boeing fanboys. Believed all the stuff about pilots being gods and FBW taking their authority. The A320 has clearly proven itself to be one of the top 5 commercial airplanes of all time. And it will live on in the form of the A321NEO for many more years. Bravo!