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NameOmitted
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:18 pm

NWADTWE16 wrote:
Given the situation with the Max, at the very least, being a wake up call for airlines operating all one fleet, Alaska or any other carrier retreating to be all Max, is absolute insanity. I am not saying it wont happen, but it is insanity, will lose them customers, and come back potentially to be a major mistake.

Or, Boeing needs a show of confidence, Alaska may get a fantastic deal on an order to replace the Airbus fleet.
 
Miquel787
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:56 am

Qatar wants to be launch customer for the 797.
In an article of simpleflying.com Al Baker said he was very interested in what he had seen from Boeing.

That.s interesting because U turn Al said months ago he wasn.t interested in the 797. Remarkable.

Is something going to happen at the Paris airshow?
Also rumours of China planning to order 100 widebody.s from Boeing.. Will the Paris airshow be the rise of Boeing after the huge Max problems?

If, and i say if the 797 will be launched in Paris, what orders can we expect?
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:11 am

Miquel787 wrote:
Qatar wants to be launch customer for the 797.

I guess Boeing doesn't want Diva-Airlines Qatar to become the launch customer. Would be like asking a horror clown to organize a children's bithday party...
But seriously, there are other airlines with a long history of working together with Boeing successfully and w/o much drama. I guess Boeing will be able to select the launch customer out of all the interested airlines.
 
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:32 am

N14AZ wrote:
Miquel787 wrote:
Qatar wants to be launch customer for the 797.

I guess Boeing doesn't want Diva-Airlines Qatar to become the launch customer. Would be like asking a horror clown to organize a children's bithday party...
But seriously, there are other airlines with a long history of working together with Boeing successfully and w/o much drama. I guess Boeing will be able to select the launch customer out of all the interested airlines.


Qatar was the launch customer of the A350 and everything was alright as far as i know. Al-Baker is a clown but he have competent people that works behind him.

Some airlines are more demanding than others. Having one of these companies (and Qatar belong to them) as a launch customer can improve the quality of your production line for the following aircraft.
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Bricktop
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:56 am

LaunchDetected wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Miquel787 wrote:
Qatar wants to be launch customer for the 797.

I guess Boeing doesn't want Diva-Airlines Qatar to become the launch customer. Would be like asking a horror clown to organize a children's bithday party...
But seriously, there are other airlines with a long history of working together with Boeing successfully and w/o much drama. I guess Boeing will be able to select the launch customer out of all the interested airlines.


Qatar was the launch customer of the A350 and everything was alright as far as i know. Al-Baker is a clown but he have competent people that works behind him.

Some airlines are more demanding than others. Having one of these companies (and Qatar belong to them) as a launch customer can improve the quality of your production line for the following aircraft.

My remembery may be off, but I thought QR had a rocky relationship with Airbus over the A350, particularly taking them timely. I recall some drama over carpets. Was that the A350? IOW, I would not have QR as a launch customer for the 797. They can’t buy enough to make it worth the while.
 
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Polot
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:06 am

Bricktop wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
I guess Boeing doesn't want Diva-Airlines Qatar to become the launch customer. Would be like asking a horror clown to organize a children's bithday party...
But seriously, there are other airlines with a long history of working together with Boeing successfully and w/o much drama. I guess Boeing will be able to select the launch customer out of all the interested airlines.


Qatar was the launch customer of the A350 and everything was alright as far as i know. Al-Baker is a clown but he have competent people that works behind him.

Some airlines are more demanding than others. Having one of these companies (and Qatar belong to them) as a launch customer can improve the quality of your production line for the following aircraft.

My remembery may be off, but I thought QR had a rocky relationship with Airbus over the A350, particularly taking them timely. I recall some drama over carpets. Was that the A350? IOW, I would not have QR as a launch customer for the 797. They can’t buy enough to make it worth the while.

Yes, Al is very picky and held up many early A350 deliveries. Some of it was for legitimate reasons, some of it, imho, was QR purposely stalling deliveries while hiding their desire to delay for pride reasons.
 
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:14 am

LaunchDetected wrote:
Qatar was the launch customer of the A350 and everything was alright as far as i know.


If you followed the A350 production/delivery threads, you'd know what a PITA QR is as a customer. Not just on A350s, either.
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:45 am

Bricktop wrote:
My remembery may be off, but I thought QR had a rocky relationship with Airbus over the A350, particularly taking them timely. I recall some drama over carpets.

I recall it was about toilet seats... Probably both :crazy:
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:05 pm

I bet if U turn Al orders 40plus 797.s, Boeing will not be picky regarding launch customers..
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:57 pm

frigatebird wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
My remembery may be off, but I thought QR had a rocky relationship with Airbus over the A350, particularly taking them timely. I recall some drama over carpets.

I recall it was about toilet seats... Probably both :crazy:


Toilet seats, doors, actually the whole of the toilet installation was not up to standards. I know that a lot of Airbus friends blamed QR and Al Bakar, but there were real quality issues. Airbus and QR came to an agreement regarding the plan for deliveries, Airbus fixed the quality problems, perhaps some compensation by Airbus and since than the A350 for QR have been running out. Accusing QR for being quality minded is beside the point.
 
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:03 pm

It's been too quiet on the A220 front, expecting Airbus to announce some decent orders at the show.
 
Delta28L
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:21 pm

william wrote:
It's been too quiet on the A220 front, expecting Airbus to announce some decent orders at the show.


Spirit said they were looking at the A220 for an order after turning down the E2. Wish Delta would order some more A220s
 
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keesje
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:34 pm

Delta28L wrote:
william wrote:
It's been too quiet on the A220 front, expecting Airbus to announce some decent orders at the show.


Spirit said they were looking at the A220 for an order after turning down the E2. Wish Delta would order some more A220s


I think Airbus is handicapped by not being able to make promises on deliveries. They are ramping up, investing, reducing costs.

But production rates 2020, 2021, 2022 seem unclear at this stage.. 12-13 (?) YTD deliveries doesn't sound encouraging.

Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A220_orders_and_deliveries
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mjoelnir
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:16 pm

keesje wrote:
Delta28L wrote:
william wrote:
It's been too quiet on the A220 front, expecting Airbus to announce some decent orders at the show.


Spirit said they were looking at the A220 for an order after turning down the E2. Wish Delta would order some more A220s


I think Airbus is handicapped by not being able to make promises on deliveries. They are ramping up, investing, reducing costs.

But production rates 2020, 2021, 2022 seem unclear at this stage.. 12-13 (?) YTD deliveries doesn't sound encouraging.

Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A220_orders_and_deliveries


We can expect the Mobil FAL for the A220 to go on line in the middle of next year, reaching 2 frames per month at the end of that year. 2021 we could see 24 frames coming out of Mobil, ramping to about 48 frames a year in 2024/5.
Mirabel should also ramp up, Airbus is talking about streamlining the production there.
It will not only be the FALs, but also the supply line has to ramp up.
 
musman9853
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:23 pm

Miquel787 wrote:
Qatar wants to be launch customer for the 797.
In an article of simpleflying.com Al Baker said he was very interested in what he had seen from Boeing.

That.s interesting because U turn Al said months ago he wasn.t interested in the 797. Remarkable.

Is something going to happen at the Paris airshow?
Also rumours of China planning to order 100 widebody.s from Boeing.. Will the Paris airshow be the rise of Boeing after the huge Max problems?

If, and i say if the 797 will be launched in Paris, what orders can we expect?


ATO hasn't been given yet by the BOD. It was supposed to be in march, but the max issues have delayed it.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:25 pm

Miquel787 wrote:
I bet if U turn Al orders 40plus 797.s, Boeing will not be picky regarding launch customers..


but why would B choose qr when delta is really willing to be launch customer?
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
musman9853
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:25 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
keesje wrote:
Delta28L wrote:

Spirit said they were looking at the A220 for an order after turning down the E2. Wish Delta would order some more A220s


I think Airbus is handicapped by not being able to make promises on deliveries. They are ramping up, investing, reducing costs.

But production rates 2020, 2021, 2022 seem unclear at this stage.. 12-13 (?) YTD deliveries doesn't sound encouraging.

Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A220_orders_and_deliveries


We can expect the Mobil FAL for the A220 to go on line in the middle of next year, reaching 2 frames per month at the end of that year. 2021 we could see 24 frames coming out of Mobil, ramping to about 48 frames a year in 2024/5.
Mirabel should also ramp up, Airbus is talking about streamlining the production there.
It will not only be the FALs, but also the supply line has to ramp up.


wow, that ramp is super slow. no wonder bbd couldn't get it to work.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:17 pm

musman9853 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
keesje wrote:

I think Airbus is handicapped by not being able to make promises on deliveries. They are ramping up, investing, reducing costs.

But production rates 2020, 2021, 2022 seem unclear at this stage.. 12-13 (?) YTD deliveries doesn't sound encouraging.

Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A220_orders_and_deliveries


We can expect the Mobil FAL for the A220 to go on line in the middle of next year, reaching 2 frames per month at the end of that year. 2021 we could see 24 frames coming out of Mobil, ramping to about 48 frames a year in 2024/5.
Mirabel should also ramp up, Airbus is talking about streamlining the production there.
It will not only be the FALs, but also the supply line has to ramp up.


wow, that ramp is super slow. no wonder bbd couldn't get it to work.


It was mentioned in another thread that they ran out of money and didn't get the production tooling they intended to get, in which case Airbus could easily fix that with incremental investment.
 
sciing
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:09 am

keesje wrote:
Delta28L wrote:
william wrote:
It's been too quiet on the A220 front, expecting Airbus to announce some decent orders at the show.


Spirit said they were looking at the A220 for an order after turning down the E2. Wish Delta would order some more A220s


I think Airbus is handicapped by not being able to make promises on deliveries. They are ramping up, investing, reducing costs.

But production rates 2020, 2021, 2022 seem unclear at this stage.. 12-13 (?) YTD deliveries doesn't sound encouraging.

Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A220_orders_and_deliveries

The YTD end of May was 15, fitting to a rate of 3/month. Actual YTD is 16.
 
sciing
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:17 am

musman9853 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
keesje wrote:

I think Airbus is handicapped by not being able to make promises on deliveries. They are ramping up, investing, reducing costs.

But production rates 2020, 2021, 2022 seem unclear at this stage.. 12-13 (?) YTD deliveries doesn't sound encouraging.

Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A220_orders_and_deliveries


We can expect the Mobil FAL for the A220 to go on line in the middle of next year, reaching 2 frames per month at the end of that year. 2021 we could see 24 frames coming out of Mobil, ramping to about 48 frames a year in 2024/5.
Mirabel should also ramp up, Airbus is talking about streamlining the production there.
It will not only be the FALs, but also the supply line has to ramp up.


wow, that ramp is super slow. no wonder bbd couldn't get it to work.

This is the ramp for Mobile. Mirabel should go to 10/month.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:00 am

Will the 10 a month rate be achieved before 2023?
Even if there are willing buyers that snail like pace of deliveries puts them off
 
Olddog
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:07 am

Yes but when Airbus will be fully in charge, they could use way more buying power for the tools, the materials needed and more important how to ramp up the process.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
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keesje
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:17 am

Olddog wrote:
Yes but when Airbus will be fully in charge, they could use way more buying power for the tools, the materials needed and more important how to ramp up the process.


Airbus is fully dependent on the Airbus Canada / BBD crew, can't afford to stirr / loose the good folks. Carefull process...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Olddog
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:23 am

If BBD teams are organized anything like it was reported in the mtow bump thread, a total reorganization seems unavoidable.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:31 am

PixelPilot wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
And here, I'll stir the pot a bit.... :stirthepot: :stirthepot:

So the lore has long been that DL finds the 788 and 789 too heavy to replace its 767s but too small for the 77E market; the 78X decently sized by too short ranged.

Well last December, Justin Hale and Emily Sylvester (Boeing's 787 product marketing manager and regional director of 787 marketing, respectively) had a nice lil' powwow with DL, where the topic at hand was (among other things) enhancements in the 78X.... to which I'm told by someone who may or may not have been in the room, the response by DL was that a 78X with similar range to their 77Es at current payload or better, would be "good fit for our network" and "quite the compelling prospect."

And now, we hear the first public rumblings of a significant weight adjustment, in both directions, for the 78X.

So while I'm sure this will be met with a chorus of "give it up," and "you must hate A330NEOs/A350s," and any other litany of nonsense by people who can't understand context; all I'm saying here is that the timeline of events is interesting, and it will be really interesting to see what this airline does.......................

Image


Some heads on a.net would EXPLODE :laughing:


I think Delta / NWAC have a reputation for keeping all options open & not being shy if things can be accomplished differently in their fleet planning. This includes all brands, launching orders and used aircraft in large numbers. They said the door was never closed for Boeing, contrary there so big a dual source policy makes a lot of sense.. Looking at their network requirements, DL might one day be the biggest 797 customer too. EXPLODING heads.. I'm from a time here on a.net that any suggestion DL, AA might buy Airbus was met with laughter and disdain.. On the 787-10X, maybe Atlantic. Delta does a lot cargo heavy TransPac so that might have less value there.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Checklist787
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:49 am

Miquel787 wrote:
Qatar wants to be launch customer for the 797.
In an article of simpleflying.com Al Baker said he was very interested in what he had seen from Boeing.

That.s interesting because [u]U turn Al[/u] said months ago he wasn.t interested in the 797. Remarkable.


U-Turn AL, has spoken again!

The day before DAS'13 he was not interested in the 777-X. :bigthumbsup:

Now he says he's interested in the 797X. This is very bad news? ...

Miquel787 wrote:
If, and i say if the 797 will be launched in Paris, what orders can we expect?


There will be something about the 797X but not the launch yet!
IMHO :roll:
Last edited by Checklist787 on Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Checklist787
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:56 am

Miquel787 wrote:
I bet if U turn Al orders 40plus 797.s, Boeing will not be picky regarding launch customers..


Most definitely several launch customers.
IMHO :roll:
 
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keesje
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:19 pm

Checklist787 wrote:
Miquel787 wrote:
I bet if U turn Al orders 40plus 797.s, Boeing will not be picky regarding launch customers..


Most definitely several launch customers.
IMHO :roll:


:checkmark: strong airline interest,
:checkmark: market projections confirmation,
:checkmark: launching customers pushing,
:checkmark: CEO's promising
:checkmark: sneak previews,
:checkmark: encouraging updates to the business case,
:checkmark: solidly moving forwards with force towards full program launch.

Image

nothing firm though, while Christian gets XLR signatures.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
chiki
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:18 pm

An update from Reuters on how they see the PAS
https://ca.reuters.com/article/idCAKCN1TC0WI-OCABS

Sent from my SM-J415F using Tapatalk
 
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:54 pm

A BLOW FOR BOEING 797? AMERICAN CONSIDERS A321XLR


Source

American Airlines is considering to buy the A321XLS to replace its last 34 Boeing 757-200. If that happens it will be a blow for Boeing and its 797. The order might be announced at the Paris Airshow, or it might be too soon.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:42 pm

mxaxai wrote:
So I guess you could add 2-3 rows at 28" vs 1-2 rows at 29". Another half row by shrinking or relocating galleys and lavatories. The seat count should be around 460 - 470, compared to 436 today. A noticeable gain, sure, but there's only a single customer interested.

5J might settle with a bit lower seat count to get the dependable range they want. Apparently, the selection is still up in the air (for us without insider info) small as the order may be... :scratchchin: ...

https://ca.reuters.com/article/idCAKCN1TC0WI-OCABS
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:06 pm

Dutchy wrote:
A BLOW FOR BOEING 797? AMERICAN CONSIDERS A321XLR


Source

American Airlines is considering to buy the A321XLS to replace its last 34 Boeing 757-200. If that happens it will be a blow for Boeing and its 797. The order might be announced at the Paris Airshow, or it might be too soon.


This was discussed in another thread also but I don't remember the consensus there. IMO, American is a no-brainer as they are a huge A321 operator. I'm not sure it really is bad news for the 797 as we don't know enough about it yet but there could be room for both.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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keesje
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:20 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A BLOW FOR BOEING 797? AMERICAN CONSIDERS A321XLR


Source

American Airlines is considering to buy the A321XLS to replace its last 34 Boeing 757-200. If that happens it will be a blow for Boeing and its 797. The order might be announced at the Paris Airshow, or it might be too soon.


This was discussed in another thread also but I don't remember the consensus there. IMO, American is a no-brainer as they are a huge A321 operator. I'm not sure it really is bad news for the 797 as we don't know enough about it yet but there could be room for both.


That's not how it works. If an airline is topping up fleets, it will be re-worded for the home public into a blow to the competitior.
If it ever was seriously considerd doesn't really matter. You need to confirm believes & preferences. It's about clicks & satisfaction.
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VV
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:24 pm

Jouhou wrote:
It was mentioned in another thread that they ran out of money and didn't get the production tooling they intended to get, in which case Airbus could easily fix that with incremental investment.


But they have the money to certify the high gross weight version for 2020? WTF?

There is something fishy there.
 
VV
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:28 pm

Olddog wrote:
If BBD teams are organized anything like it was reported in the mtow bump thread, a total reorganization seems unavoidable.


Correct.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:59 pm

VV wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
It was mentioned in another thread that they ran out of money and didn't get the production tooling they intended to get, in which case Airbus could easily fix that with incremental investment.
But they have the money to certify the high gross weight version for 2020? WTF? There is something fishy there.


It's indeed well known that BBD ran out of money and didn't get the production tooling (and particularly the required additional FAL space) they intended to get.

Now, about this MTOW increase by Airbus Canada:

"Airbus A220 head of engineering and customer support Rob Dewar explained that customer demand - not any particular internal objective - prompted the improvements that resulted in a range increase of some 450 nm and ETOPS diversion allowance from 120 to 180 minutes. Calling the MTOW a “paperwork exercise,” he said it nevertheless required not insignificant investment, even though the airplane’s developers recognized the capability from early in the test program. It’s interesting because we do have an exceptional cabin that really is very comfortable to fly even very long-range flights"

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... -potential

To me, it seems there is genuine interest by some airlines for a few very long thin ETOPS flights. I particularly see the potential for starting/evaluating new routes with smaller / less risky eqpt. If so, that would explain this relatively cheap MTOW/range improvements.
 
VV
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:39 pm

A220 TCDS has been updated on 1st June. I thought it was for increasing the take-off and landing altitude limit to 10,000 ft 8,000.

Finally it was just to change the name "C Series Aircraft Limited Partnership" to "Airbus Canada Limited Partnership".

https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/defaul ... e%2012.pdf
 
Asiaflyer
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:07 am

Saudi Arabian Airlines is closing in on both an A350 order as well as a possible A320 order with Airbus according to Reuters.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-franc ... KKCN1TD0UV

"PARIS, June 12 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabian Airlines is close to placing a multi-billion-dollar order for aircraft at least partly involving Airbus AIR.PA jets, people familiar with the matter said on Wednesday.

The carrier, known as Saudia, has been negotiating with both Airbus and Boeing BA.N for wide-body jets for months and its chief executive told Air Transport World in March that a decision for planes like the Airbus A350 or Boeing 787 was expected soon.

The order for wide-body aircraft, which could also include a number of smaller A320-family narrow-body aircraft, may be announced at the Paris Airshow, the people said."
SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
 
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Polot
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:57 am

Asiaflyer wrote:
Saudi Arabian Airlines is closing in on both an A350 order as well as a possible A320 order with Airbus according to Reuters.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-franc ... KKCN1TD0UV

"PARIS, June 12 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabian Airlines is close to placing a multi-billion-dollar order for aircraft at least partly involving Airbus AIR.PA jets, people familiar with the matter said on Wednesday.

The carrier, known as Saudia, has been negotiating with both Airbus and Boeing BA.N for wide-body jets for months and its chief executive told Air Transport World in March that a decision for planes like the Airbus A350 or Boeing 787 was expected soon.

The order for wide-body aircraft, which could also include a number of smaller A320-family narrow-body aircraft, may be announced at the Paris Airshow, the people said."

It’s hard to say if they mean Saudia selected the A350 or if by “at least partly involving Airbus jets” they mean the A320s. The article is very vague and can be correct basically no matter what Saudi does.
 
xwb565
Posts: 95
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:02 am

Polot wrote:
Asiaflyer wrote:
Saudi Arabian Airlines is closing in on both an A350 order as well as a possible A320 order with Airbus according to Reuters.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-franc ... KKCN1TD0UV

"PARIS, June 12 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabian Airlines is close to placing a multi-billion-dollar order for aircraft at least partly involving Airbus AIR.PA jets, people familiar with the matter said on Wednesday.

The carrier, known as Saudia, has been negotiating with both Airbus and Boeing BA.N for wide-body jets for months and its chief executive told Air Transport World in March that a decision for planes like the Airbus A350 or Boeing 787 was expected soon.

The order for wide-body aircraft, which could also include a number of smaller A320-family narrow-body aircraft, may be announced at the Paris Airshow, the people said."

It’s hard to say if they mean Saudia selected the A350 or if by “at least partly involving Airbus jets” they mean the A320s. The article is very vague and can be correct basically no matter what Saudi does.


It sounds more like an a350 plus a320 order for the Airbus part.
 
Asiaflyer
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:01 pm

xwb565 wrote:
Polot wrote:
Asiaflyer wrote:
Saudi Arabian Airlines is closing in on both an A350 order as well as a possible A320 order with Airbus according to Reuters.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-franc ... KKCN1TD0UV

"PARIS, June 12 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabian Airlines is close to placing a multi-billion-dollar order for aircraft at least partly involving Airbus AIR.PA jets, people familiar with the matter said on Wednesday.

The carrier, known as Saudia, has been negotiating with both Airbus and Boeing BA.N for wide-body jets for months and its chief executive told Air Transport World in March that a decision for planes like the Airbus A350 or Boeing 787 was expected soon.

The order for wide-body aircraft, which could also include a number of smaller A320-family narrow-body aircraft, may be announced at the Paris Airshow, the people said."

It’s hard to say if they mean Saudia selected the A350 or if by “at least partly involving Airbus jets” they mean the A320s. The article is very vague and can be correct basically no matter what Saudi does.


It sounds more like an a350 plus a320 order for the Airbus part.


Thats how I read it as well, with a possible split order between A350 and 787.
SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:08 pm

Interesting analysis for the Air-France/KLM group fleet renewable. There is some speculation that an order will be placed or revealed during the Paris airshow.

Conclusion
Due to the variety in the HOP! fleet and recent integration into the Air France fleet, it is hard to tell what the Air France-KLM order will look like. There are a couple of possibilities:

> The odd solution would be if the airline goes with an order mix of 50 MRJ and CRJ aircraft, 50 A220 aircraft and 60 Airbus A320neo family aircraft for the Air France combined fleet along with 130 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft for KLM, Transavia and Transavia France.
> The other solution would be a more uniform one with 60 Embraer E2 orders, 100 Airbus A320neo family aircraft and 130 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft.
> Alternatively, if Air France decides not to order any replacement for the A320ceo, it could opt for 60 Embraer E2 orders, 65 Airbus A320neo family aircraft and 130 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft.
> The single aisle fleet renewal of Air France-KLM is a complex one because the airline group is looking to place new order while it is also restructuring its brands and with that likely also strategic changes will be made that can impact the need for certain aircraft. Air France has to weigh whether it goes for a uniform fleet where it accepts that the Airbus A319neo is less efficient than the Airbus A220-300 or it accepts introduction costs and costs associated with support for the Airbus A220 which is more fuel-efficient than the A319neo opting for an A220/A320neo family fleet.


Source

They are speculating that the group is the unidentified customer that signed a tentative agreement for 125 Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets last year with purchase rights for 50 more aircraft. Or has that order been booked by some other airline?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
TheEuphorian
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:35 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:23 pm

Maybe TG ordering more A359/A35K and more 787-9?
 
ShamrockBoi330
Posts: 75
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:42 pm

first off, apologies as i can't find the link i read this on a few days back...

but the article mentioned Vueling switching from Airbus to Boeing and a possible order at Paris... thoughts? or is this just hot air from WW keeping Airbus attention and hoping for a better deal?

if true, this would be a nice coup, if surprising, for Boeing
 
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keesje
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:30 pm

I think for the Paris Airshow, at this stage, communication/ perception management is extremely important. Specially for an OE in the corner.

I expect to see some news leaking friday / the week-end as part of an effort the grab headlines, avoid topics, deflect attention, move goal posts, pre-empt the mainstream media.

Promising outlooks, sketches, great ambitions, leaks, noble intensions, futuristic concepts, long term success, the environmental challenge, bold commitments, a combination, whatever works for week 25.

Let the show begin !

Image
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
marcogr12
Posts: 208
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:05 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Interesting analysis for the Air-France/KLM group fleet renewable. There is some speculation that an order will be placed or revealed during the Paris airshow.

Conclusion
Due to the variety in the HOP! fleet and recent integration into the Air France fleet, it is hard to tell what the Air France-KLM order will look like. There are a couple of possibilities:

> The odd solution would be if the airline goes with an order mix of 50 MRJ and CRJ aircraft, 50 A220 aircraft and 60 Airbus A320neo family aircraft for the Air France combined fleet along with 130 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft for KLM, Transavia and Transavia France.
> The other solution would be a more uniform one with 60 Embraer E2 orders, 100 Airbus A320neo family aircraft and 130 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft.
> Alternatively, if Air France decides not to order any replacement for the A320ceo, it could opt for 60 Embraer E2 orders, 65 Airbus A320neo family aircraft and 130 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft.
> The single aisle fleet renewal of Air France-KLM is a complex one because the airline group is looking to place new order while it is also restructuring its brands and with that likely also strategic changes will be made that can impact the need for certain aircraft. Air France has to weigh whether it goes for a uniform fleet where it accepts that the Airbus A319neo is less efficient than the Airbus A220-300 or it accepts introduction costs and costs associated with support for the Airbus A220 which is more fuel-efficient than the A319neo opting for an A220/A320neo family fleet.


Source

They are speculating that the group is the unidentified customer that signed a tentative agreement for 125 Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets last year with purchase rights for 50 more aircraft. Or has that order been booked by some other airline?


Would it be better for HV to switch to all -Airbus to include the neos so that it can up capacity with the A321s and fly further,considering no one still knows what the outcome of the whole MAX debacle will be and when the MAXs will be SAFELY up in the air?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 9570
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:11 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Interesting analysis for the Air-France/KLM group fleet renewable. There is some speculation that an order will be placed or revealed during the Paris airshow.

Conclusion
Due to the variety in the HOP! fleet and recent integration into the Air France fleet, it is hard to tell what the Air France-KLM order will look like. There are a couple of possibilities:

> The odd solution would be if the airline goes with an order mix of 50 MRJ and CRJ aircraft, 50 A220 aircraft and 60 Airbus A320neo family aircraft for the Air France combined fleet along with 130 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft for KLM, Transavia and Transavia France.
> The other solution would be a more uniform one with 60 Embraer E2 orders, 100 Airbus A320neo family aircraft and 130 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft.
> Alternatively, if Air France decides not to order any replacement for the A320ceo, it could opt for 60 Embraer E2 orders, 65 Airbus A320neo family aircraft and 130 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft.
> The single aisle fleet renewal of Air France-KLM is a complex one because the airline group is looking to place new order while it is also restructuring its brands and with that likely also strategic changes will be made that can impact the need for certain aircraft. Air France has to weigh whether it goes for a uniform fleet where it accepts that the Airbus A319neo is less efficient than the Airbus A220-300 or it accepts introduction costs and costs associated with support for the Airbus A220 which is more fuel-efficient than the A319neo opting for an A220/A320neo family fleet.


Source

They are speculating that the group is the unidentified customer that signed a tentative agreement for 125 Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets last year with purchase rights for 50 more aircraft. Or has that order been booked by some other airline?


Would it be better for HV to switch to all -Airbus to include the neos so that it can up capacity with the A321s and fly further,considering no one still knows what the outcome of the whole MAX debacle will be and when the MAXs will be SAFELY up in the air?


You could argue the other way, great deals seem to be there for the take, HV needs new a/c in 2021, I think it would be a save bad to assume the MAX's will be save to fly again.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 9570
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:12 pm

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
first off, apologies as i can't find the link i read this on a few days back...

but the article mentioned Vueling switching from Airbus to Boeing and a possible order at Paris... thoughts? or is this just hot air from WW keeping Airbus attention and hoping for a better deal?

if true, this would be a nice coup, if surprising, for Boeing


I don't think there will be any MAX orders announced at the airshow, but what do I know....
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 370
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:26 pm

I predict there will be no 737 Max 8 orders. :crazy:
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:29 pm

sciing wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

We can expect the Mobil FAL for the A220 to go on line in the middle of next year, reaching 2 frames per month at the end of that year. 2021 we could see 24 frames coming out of Mobil, ramping to about 48 frames a year in 2024/5.
Mirabel should also ramp up, Airbus is talking about streamlining the production there.
It will not only be the FALs, but also the supply line has to ramp up.


wow, that ramp is super slow. no wonder bbd couldn't get it to work.

This is the ramp for Mobile. Mirabel should go to 10/month.

Mobile will quickly ramp to 4 per month, about 50 per year.

Mirabel needs a redo. As Mobile produces, Mirabel will be re-engineered for 10/month.

I believe production, dispatch reliability, PIP funding, and in service performance (range, fuel economy, passenger acceptance, field performance) is ready for orders of the A220:
1. IAG (rumored 26) vs. E2
2. Spirit (I have read qty 25 to 125) vs. NEO/MAX
3. AF/KLM vs. NEO, MAX, E2
4. Small airline with attention deficit disorder looking at 16 aircraft models for a mere quantity of 5.
5. Korean Air, quantity unknown.

I could hope for a few other airlines, but for now only the voices in my head see potential orders. Although I hear from Pratt contacts about options negotiations. For all I know, KE will take that route (do they have options open?). So I could be double reporting.


Lightsaber
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