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FlyHPN wrote:ER757 wrote:Arion640 wrote:
Is the 787-10ER actually a real concept or is this something airliners.net has made up?
It's an A.net plane - just like the A350-1100
I believe you’ve made a typo. It’s the A350-2000.
chiad wrote:Cebu Pacific could choose between the A330neo and B787 for up to 16 frames.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cebu ... SKCN1T015G
MrBren wrote:I have recently flown from Paris to Bangalore on an AF 777. This was so noisy. I hope AF will order more A350s to get rid of these 777.
rufusmi wrote:chiad wrote:Cebu Pacific could choose between the A330neo and B787 for up to 16 frames.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cebu ... SKCN1T015G
Definitely see this one going Airbus. They use 9 abreast in their a330ceo, and with that config and the lower capital cost, the neo is more economical. Same reason AirAsia went neo.
superbizzy73 wrote:Didn’t AS say somewhere that they were all-in on the MAX? What would they lose if they cancelled their 321 order (which was originally a VX order, if I’m not mistaken)? Just my opinion (flame me if you feel you need to...seems to be a trend on a.net), but I can see them going back to an all-737 fleet and the 320 family of aircraft being gone (when? no clue...) and I can’t see them making any announcement at Paris...just my two cents.
superbizzy73 wrote:Didn’t AS say somewhere that they were all-in on the MAX? What would they lose if they cancelled their 321 order (which was originally a VX order, if I’m not mistaken)? Just my opinion (flame me if you feel you need to...seems to be a trend on a.net), but I can see them going back to an all-737 fleet and the 320 family of aircraft being gone (when? no clue...) and I can’t see them making any announcement at Paris...just my two cents.
unitedewr737 wrote:I don’t know if this would happen at the air show but I expect United to order the E 195 e2 as a replacement for the 737-700s and their really old a319 and a320s. Those planes are getting really old and will need to start the replacement cycle in the next few years. The E2 program or whatever it might become if Boeing decides to change the name needs a big order from a big airline to gain more relevance. I think if United ordered it then other airlines would follow suit and see it as a viable replacement for the smaller versions of those mainline airplanes. I think Boeing and Embraer know this, and given the relationship between United and Boeing and how big of a customer United is for them, they might give United a discount similar to that of Delta and the A220. The only possible hiccup I see to this is Scott Kirby who has shown a tendency to go for higher capacity in the mainline given the Max 10s and the 787-10. He has expressed doubts about the viability of having what is traditionally a regional jet operate in a mainline environment. There have been rumors about a bigger e2 than the 195 so that might have potencial, but I think this would be a great opportunity for both United and Boeing/Embraer.
rufusmi wrote:Definitely see this one going Airbus. They use 9 abreast in their a330ceo, and with that config and the lower capital cost, the neo is more economical. Same reason AirAsia went neo.
ER757 wrote:Agreed, I don't see Boeing winning this one
JerseyFlyer wrote:Maybe Phillipines will convert options on another 5 A350s, possibly -1000s for what would be their second batch.
Devilfish wrote:rufusmi wrote:Definitely see this one going Airbus. They use 9 abreast in their a330ceo, and with that config and the lower capital cost, the neo is more economical. Same reason AirAsia went neo.
Please note that no particular version of either candidate was mentioned. Apart from their current routes, 5J also wants to fly to HNL and LAX nonstop (postponed for the time being). Their business model calls for an airplane able to serve both destinations most of the year, in a dense configuration -- profitably. Unless they revise their network goal to less distant places or stop somewhere along the way.ER757 wrote:Agreed, I don't see Boeing winning this one
The choice could go either way. While initial capex will indeed be a big factor...CASM, operations & training costs, maintenance/supply agreements, engine reliability, performance guarantees, financing/amortization, earlier availability, etc. - could swing an otherwise straightforward decision. At the end of the day, the airframer offering the more flexible aircraft with the right combination of these attributes at the best price possible would walk away with the deal.
cpd wrote:FlyHPN wrote:ER757 wrote:It's an A.net plane - just like the A350-1100
I believe you’ve made a typo. It’s the A350-2000.
True, it is the 2000, with a fly somewhere on the graphic for it.
These mythical planes should be shunted out of civil aviation and into the hobby section.
unitedewr737 wrote:I don’t know if this would happen at the air show but I expect United to order the E 195 e2 as a replacement for the 737-700s and their really old a319 and a320s. Those planes are getting really old and will need to start the replacement cycle in the next few years.
unitedewr737 wrote:I don’t know if this would happen at the air show but I expect United to order the E 195 e2 as a replacement for the 737-700s and their really old a319 and a320s. Those planes are getting really old and will need to start the replacement cycle in the next few years. The E2 program or whatever it might become if Boeing decides to change the name needs a big order from a big airline to gain more relevance. I think if United ordered it then other airlines would follow suit and see it as a viable replacement for the smaller versions of those mainline airplanes. I think Boeing and Embraer know this, and given the relationship between United and Boeing and how big of a customer United is for them, they might give United a discount similar to that of Delta and the A220. The only possible hiccup I see to this is Scott Kirby who has shown a tendency to go for higher capacity in the mainline given the Max 10s and the 787-10. He has expressed doubts about the viability of having what is traditionally a regional jet operate in a mainline environment. There have been rumors about a bigger e2 than the 195 so that might have potencial, but I think this would be a great opportunity for both United and Boeing/Embraer.
PlanesNTrains wrote:Arion640 wrote:ODwyerPW wrote:787-10ER authority to offer will be announced by Boeing.
Is the 787-10ER actually a real concept or is this something airliners.net has made up?
I think it's something we made up. ANZ buying the -10 has turned into the -10 can do SYD-LHR year round.
jagraham wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:Arion640 wrote:
Is the 787-10ER actually a real concept or is this something airliners.net has made up?
I think it's something we made up. ANZ buying the -10 has turned into the -10 can do SYD-LHR year round.
The ANZ press releases say that Boeing improved the 787s they are buying; of course a.netters are hotly disputing any improvement viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1422937&p=21388977&hilit=anz+787#p21388977.
I believe the 2.5t reduction in MTOW is real; but that only gets about 1/2 hour of flying time. More like a PIP than an ER type enhancement.
Polot wrote:jagraham wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:
I think it's something we made up. ANZ buying the -10 has turned into the -10 can do SYD-LHR year round.
The ANZ press releases say that Boeing improved the 787s they are buying; of course a.netters are hotly disputing any improvement viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1422937&p=21388977&hilit=anz+787#p21388977.
I believe the 2.5t reduction in MTOW is real; but that only gets about 1/2 hour of flying time. More like a PIP than an ER type enhancement.
According to rumors (linked at end of that thread) Boeing is looking at increasing 787-9/10 MTOW 6t to 260t.
I assume you mean 2.5t reduction in empty weight, not MTOW.
PR77W wrote:They have options for 6 not 5 A350's. But nonetheless I'm hoping PAL those firm its option for additional A350, either (A359 or A351.)
VSMUT wrote:FWIW, Reuters is late. A decision is already made. The big surprise is that they will be in an ultra-dense configuration, with more seats than the current emergency exit limitation (so a new sub-variant).
jagraham wrote:Polot wrote:jagraham wrote:
The ANZ press releases say that Boeing improved the 787s they are buying; of course a.netters are hotly disputing any improvement https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... #p21388977.
I believe the 2.5t reduction in MTOW is real; but that only gets about 1/2 hour of flying time. More like a PIP than an ER type enhancement.
According to rumors (linked at end of that thread) Boeing is looking at increasing 787-9/10 MTOW 6t to 260t.
I assume you mean 2.5t reduction in empty weight, not MTOW.
Sorry, yes empty weight
Haven't seen anything remotely official regarding a MTOW increase, but it is logical. Perhaps enough to justify an ER designation (I'm sure Boeing would not want to sell a 6t MTOW improvement for free)
PlanesNTrains wrote:unitedewr737 wrote:I don’t know if this would happen at the air show but I expect United to order the E 195 e2 as a replacement for the 737-700s and their really old a319 and a320s. Those planes are getting really old and will need to start the replacement cycle in the next few years. The E2 program or whatever it might become if Boeing decides to change the name needs a big order from a big airline to gain more relevance. I think if United ordered it then other airlines would follow suit and see it as a viable replacement for the smaller versions of those mainline airplanes. I think Boeing and Embraer know this, and given the relationship between United and Boeing and how big of a customer United is for them, they might give United a discount similar to that of Delta and the A220. The only possible hiccup I see to this is Scott Kirby who has shown a tendency to go for higher capacity in the mainline given the Max 10s and the 787-10. He has expressed doubts about the viability of having what is traditionally a regional jet operate in a mainline environment. There have been rumors about a bigger e2 than the 195 so that might have potencial, but I think this would be a great opportunity for both United and Boeing/Embraer.
I’m not sure if Boeing can really make pricing deals on the Ejets if the deal hasn’t closed yet.
unitedewr737 wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:unitedewr737 wrote:I don’t know if this would happen at the air show but I expect United to order the E 195 e2 as a replacement for the 737-700s and their really old a319 and a320s. Those planes are getting really old and will need to start the replacement cycle in the next few years. The E2 program or whatever it might become if Boeing decides to change the name needs a big order from a big airline to gain more relevance. I think if United ordered it then other airlines would follow suit and see it as a viable replacement for the smaller versions of those mainline airplanes. I think Boeing and Embraer know this, and given the relationship between United and Boeing and how big of a customer United is for them, they might give United a discount similar to that of Delta and the A220. The only possible hiccup I see to this is Scott Kirby who has shown a tendency to go for higher capacity in the mainline given the Max 10s and the 787-10. He has expressed doubts about the viability of having what is traditionally a regional jet operate in a mainline environment. There have been rumors about a bigger e2 than the 195 so that might have potencial, but I think this would be a great opportunity for both United and Boeing/Embraer.
I’m not sure if Boeing can really make pricing deals on the Ejets if the deal hasn’t closed yet.
Oficial doesn’t matter, All three parties know that it’s going down and Embraer can make the pricing deal if they want the customer. Boeing could nudge them in the right direction. Even if the deal falls through, United ordering E2s is a win for both Embraer and Boeing as United wouldn’t turn to the A220.
Devilfish wrote:VSMUT wrote:FWIW, Reuters is late. A decision is already made. The big surprise is that they will be in an ultra-dense configuration, with more seats than the current emergency exit limitation (so a new sub-variant).
Considering the difficulty of getting relief for exceeding established exit limits, that suggests to me a different OEM could supply 5J's next widebody. Unless Airbus found a more efficient way of providing those graded doors (while adding even more uncomfortable slimline seats) to quickly evacuate more passengers from an A330neo.![]()
Polot wrote:His comment sounded to me like they are sticking with the A330. Higher than current exit limitations suggests to me a new set of exits added. Airbus would have more motivation to do such work for such a niche sub variant (very few airlines approach current limits) with their smaller A330neo backlog.
pabloeing wrote:B777-8X update to win Project sunrise
https://theaircurrent.com/aircraft-deve ... tas-deals/
tphuang wrote:Well jonnyc is putting out rumour that aa is looking to order a321lr. That would be pretty big.
Ishrion wrote:tphuang wrote:Well jonnyc is putting out rumour that aa is looking to order a321lr. That would be pretty big.
Yeah, presumably based from JFK/PHL.
jagraham wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:Arion640 wrote:
Is the 787-10ER actually a real concept or is this something airliners.net has made up?
I think it's something we made up. ANZ buying the -10 has turned into the -10 can do SYD-LHR year round.
The ANZ press releases say that Boeing improved the 787s they are buying; of course a.netters are hotly disputing any improvement viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1422937&p=21388977&hilit=anz+787#p21388977.
I believe the 2.5t reduction in MTOW is real; but that only gets about 1/2 hour of flying time. More like a PIP than an ER type enhancement.
zkncj wrote:jagraham wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:
I think it's something we made up. ANZ buying the -10 has turned into the -10 can do SYD-LHR year round.
The ANZ press releases say that Boeing improved the 787s they are buying; of course a.netters are hotly disputing any improvement viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1422937&p=21388977&hilit=anz+787#p21388977.
I believe the 2.5t reduction in MTOW is real; but that only gets about 1/2 hour of flying time. More like a PIP than an ER type enhancement.
By the time NZ’s 787-10s are ready to be delivered by 2024....
Continental767 wrote:I can see Boeing pushing for plenty of 777X/787 orders plus a NMA announcement. They need all the good press they can get, and that's a good way to get it.
chiad wrote:Air Asia might be the launch customer for A321XLR.
Dash8Driver16 wrote:superbizzy73 wrote:Didn’t AS say somewhere that they were all-in on the MAX? What would they lose if they cancelled their 321 order (which was originally a VX order, if I’m not mistaken)? Just my opinion (flame me if you feel you need to...seems to be a trend on a.net), but I can see them going back to an all-737 fleet and the 320 family of aircraft being gone (when? no clue...) and I can’t see them making any announcement at Paris...just my two cents.
AS is definitely all in on the MAX. The full 10 airplane 321 order will be accepted(only 2 left for delivery I think) but the orders for the 320NEO will probably go by the wayside. I could see AS announcing an order where they step into some of the slots from JetAirways or Garuda or some other airline that is now looking to purge the MAX. My guess would be in the 100-200 range with a 1 for 1 replace on the bus and some for growth.
musman9853 wrote:Continental767 wrote:I can see Boeing pushing for plenty of 777X/787 orders plus a NMA announcement. They need all the good press they can get, and that's a good way to get it.
They've been saying for a while now there won't be an announcement this year. If they do announce, it's next year.
Devilfish wrote:PR77W wrote:They have options for 6 not 5 A350's. But nonetheless I'm hoping PAL those firm its option for additional A350, either (A359 or A351.)
Maybe 5 x A35K is all they could swing. However, this does get in the way.....
https://businessmirror.com.ph/2019/05/3 ... s-in-2018/
Devilfish wrote:Polot wrote:His comment sounded to me like they are sticking with the A330. Higher than current exit limitations suggests to me a new set of exits added. Airbus would have more motivation to do such work for such a niche sub variant (very few airlines approach current limits) with their smaller A330neo backlog.
Aaah...2 new standard doors or double overwing exits perhaps? Then 5J must have really given up on their US mainland ambitions for now. I wonder where else they intend to deploy this sardine can...HNLWith limited galleys, lavs and restrictive free baggage allowance -- should PR be worried?
Devilfish wrote:chiad wrote:Air Asia might be the launch customer for A321XLR.
With AK in line, can PR be far behindI can see PAL converting up to a glut of their existing A321N later delivery order to the XLR version.
mxaxai wrote:Devilfish wrote:Polot wrote:His comment sounded to me like they are sticking with the A330. Higher than current exit limitations suggests to me a new set of exits added. Airbus would have more motivation to do such work for such a niche sub variant (very few airlines approach current limits) with their smaller A330neo backlog.
Aaah...2 new standard doors or double overwing exits perhaps? Then 5J must have really given up on their US mainland ambitions for now. I wonder where else they intend to deploy this sardine can...HNLWith limited galleys, lavs and restrictive free baggage allowance -- should PR be worried?
AFAIK the A330-200 / -800 has a smaller exit pair 3, which limits the capacity to 406 passengers. Replacing that with a full sized exit should push that to 440. But that's a really tight configuration.
chiad wrote:Devilfish wrote:chiad wrote:Air Asia might be the launch customer for A321XLR.
With AK in line, can PR be far behindI can see PAL converting up to a glut of their existing A321N later delivery order to the XLR version.
David Neeleman (JetBlue, WestJet, Azul, TAP, Moxy) seems to be eager to order as well.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... airbus-jet
Polot wrote:Changing that exit to larger full size type As is already an option for the entire A330 family. It is how the A333 gets to 440 pax ( Cebu’s seat 436) as by default that variant also has smaller type 1 exits behind the wings.
Polot wrote:Just want to point out David has nothing to do with JetBlue or WestJet anymore.
chiad wrote:Air Asia might be the launch customer for A321XLR.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKCN1T11SG
PR77W wrote:Considering that PAL has been quite with regards to there options for 6 additional A350 I personally wouldn't be surprised that there will be no new orders coming from them for now. Although if they did place any new order a new or additional aircraft like A321neo, A321LR or XLR, and A350.That would be good.
mxaxai wrote:AFAIK the A330-200 / -800 has a smaller exit pair 3, which limits the capacity to 406 passengers. Replacing that with a full sized exit should push that to 440. But that's a really tight configuration.
jagraham wrote:musman9853 wrote:Continental767 wrote:I can see Boeing pushing for plenty of 777X/787 orders plus a NMA announcement. They need all the good press they can get, and that's a good way to get it.
They've been saying for a while now there won't be an announcement this year. If they do announce, it's next year.
Eventually Boeing will figure out the market will only wait so long . . . if the Ultrafan is ported / scaled back to the A330, Airbus can squeeze the NMA market to a sliver. Sort of like what they did with the A320NEO.
FlyingSlowly wrote:The problem right now is that everyone wants the Delta price on the A220s... Short of the A220-500, what reason do other large airlines have to pay more than Delta? Just play the waiting game. Someone will be desperate to sell some A220s at a bargain again, eventually.