• 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
 
T4thH
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:12 am

keesje wrote:
The list of airlines that could buy/convert to A321XLR keeps growing,
It could be more than 3-4. Mentioned are:
- Airasia
- Jetblue
- AA
- MEA
- United
- IAG
- Indigo
- Azul
- Air Malta
- LEVEL
- Lufthansa Group
- Icelandair
- Wizz Air
I remember A spread NEO's out over the week


Strike out Azul: Neither interested in A321 LR nor A321 Xlr. Source is in German.
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/azul-bekommt-zehn-airbus-a321-neo

Regarding IndiGo/Indigo:
IndiGo Airlines are highly interested (and this will get huge). With the Xlr they will be able to reach whole Europe, Africa and Asia form India without stop. They have ordered 150 A321 Neo alone, several already converted to LR version.
Indigo Partners LCC are highly interested (They own/hold stakes of/are partners of: Frontier Airlines, JetSmart, Volaris, Wizz Air and a new planned Canadian Airlines). Frontier, JetSmart, Volaris and WizzAir have all A321Neo on order. Indigo Partners is huge, they had ordered 430 A320Neo family jets alone on the 2017 Dubai Airshow.
AirLingus and Iberia

Already mentioned: Middle East Airlines (Lebanon) will convert 4 A321Neo of their order of 15 to A321Xlr.

Group Quantas/Jetstar Australia: already 18 converted to A321LR, further expected to be converted to Xlr. Minimum 50 A321Neo ordered/converted from big A320 Neo family order.
https://samchui.com/2019/06/14/airbus-prepares-for-a321xlr-launch/#.XQTAw42P784

EDIT: New added.
TAP Portugal will convert A321 Neo/A321Neo LR to A321 XLR.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-31/aviation-tycoon-neeleman-eager-buyer-for-proposed-new-airbus-jet

New updated listing: Interested in A321 Xlr, Regarding airline groups, marked in bold, if group and/or airlines of the group have announced interest.
EDIT: As still hard to identified, now bold and underlined.
- Airasia
- Jetblue
- AA
- MEA
- United
- IAG (AirLingus, Iberia, LEVEL and BA).
- IndiGo Airlines
- Indigo Partners (Frontier Airlines, JetSmart, Volaris, Wizz Air, new announced Canadian Airline)
- Air Malta
- Lufthansa Group
- Icelandair
- Quantas Group: Quantas/Jetstar Australia
- TAP Portugal

Already denied interest:
- Azul
 
Draken21fx
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:38 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:51 pm

Air Malta definitely interested since earlier this year to expand the network outside Europe.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/martinrivers/2019/02/13/air-malta-outlines-5-year-fleet-plan-including-a321xlr/#6dbf554e357a

I guess they will be leaving the secondary and tertiary European destinations to Malta Air/Ryanair so the XLR makes absolute sense for them.
 
MoonC
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:55 pm

T4thH wrote:
Quantas


Is it really that hard to spell Qantas?
 
musman9853
Posts: 737
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:49 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
In case it has not been said... Boeing announces 797 with many airlines signing up, subsequently with many airlines quietly announcing they are trading their 737-8,9, and 10 orders up to the Boeing 797 in the following months.

One particularly conservative airline completely comes to mind. Southwest will stick with their all Boeing 737 fleet. American will snap up devalued versions much like Southwest will do begrudgingly.


797 hasnt been given ATO by the BOD. earliest we'd see a launch is next year
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
musman9853
Posts: 737
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:52 pm

keesje wrote:
The list of airlines that could buy/convert to A321XLR keeps growing,
It could be more than 3-4. Mentioned are:
- Airasia
- Jetblue
- AA
- MEA
- United
- IAG
- Indigo
- Azul
- Air Malta
- LEVEL
- Lufthansa Group
- Icelandair
- Wizz Air
I remember A spread NEO's out over the week


the 321xlr seems to be a hit. I wonder why airbus is so reticent for a rewing though? surely the investment would be worth it
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
finnishway
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:17 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:03 pm

musman9853 wrote:
keesje wrote:
The list of airlines that could buy/convert to A321XLR keeps growing,
It could be more than 3-4. Mentioned are:
- Airasia
- Jetblue
- AA
- MEA
- United
- IAG
- Indigo
- Azul
- Air Malta
- LEVEL
- Lufthansa Group
- Icelandair
- Wizz Air
I remember A spread NEO's out over the week


the 321xlr seems to be a hit. I wonder why airbus is so reticent for a rewing though? surely the investment would be worth it


Finnair can also be added to the list for A321XLR. Airbus also brought A220 to Finland some time ago for Finnair to check it out.

Finnair is planning to make decision about narrowbody aircraft replacements this year.
 
Draken21fx
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:38 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:12 pm

musman9853 wrote:
keesje wrote:
The list of airlines that could buy/convert to A321XLR keeps growing,
It could be more than 3-4. Mentioned are:
- Airasia
- Jetblue
- AA
- MEA
- United
- IAG
- Indigo
- Azul
- Air Malta
- LEVEL
- Lufthansa Group
- Icelandair
- Wizz Air
I remember A spread NEO's out over the week


the 321xlr seems to be a hit. I wonder why airbus is so reticent for a rewing though? surely the investment would be worth it


The 321 was already outselling Boeing by far. They were in no need to rush things as they were making plenty of money.
 
musman9853
Posts: 737
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:23 pm

Draken21fx wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
keesje wrote:
The list of airlines that could buy/convert to A321XLR keeps growing,
It could be more than 3-4. Mentioned are:
- Airasia
- Jetblue
- AA
- MEA
- United
- IAG
- Indigo
- Azul
- Air Malta
- LEVEL
- Lufthansa Group
- Icelandair
- Wizz Air
I remember A spread NEO's out over the week


the 321xlr seems to be a hit. I wonder why airbus is so reticent for a rewing though? surely the investment would be worth it


The 321 was already outselling Boeing by far. They were in no need to rush things as they were making plenty of money.


the a320 leads the nb market, but only by like 8%. why not hit boeing while they're down and further the lead?
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
User avatar
Kindanew
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 11:07 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:28 pm

musman9853 wrote:
Draken21fx wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

the 321xlr seems to be a hit. I wonder why airbus is so reticent for a rewing though? surely the investment would be worth it


The 321 was already outselling Boeing by far. They were in no need to rush things as they were making plenty of money.


the a320 leads the nb market, but only by like 8%. why not hit boeing while they're down and further the lead?


Because Airbus doesn’t want Boeing to launch a 737 replacement right now.
 
Lewton
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:46 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:45 pm

musman9853 wrote:
Draken21fx wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

the 321xlr seems to be a hit. I wonder why airbus is so reticent for a rewing though? surely the investment would be worth it


The 321 was already outselling Boeing by far. They were in no need to rush things as they were making plenty of money.


the a320 leads the nb market, but only by like 8%. why not hit boeing while they're down and further the lead?

Because then Boeing will build a new small aircraft with all the amazing technologies from the 787 and then Airbus will have to do the same or become obsolete.
Also, because Airbus already has way more orders than it can deliver.
This is business, not a video game where your goal is to destroy your opponent.
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:56 pm

Lewton wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
Draken21fx wrote:

The 321 was already outselling Boeing by far. They were in no need to rush things as they were making plenty of money.


the a320 leads the nb market, but only by like 8%. why not hit boeing while they're down and further the lead?

Because then Boeing will build a new small aircraft with all the amazing technologies from the 787 and then Airbus will have to do the same or become obsolete.
Also, because Airbus already has way more orders than it can deliver.
This is business, not a video game where your goal is to destroy your opponent.



Jep, death by a 1000 cuts is way better than trying to go for the big blow. Because if that backfires you are very vulnerable in a free market. So you just slowly push your opponent in the direction you want him to be. „Zugzwang“ is a nice word. Right now Airbus does not need to go for it. Just slowly improve your position. Boeing on the other side has to make a move. So see what it is and then decide.
 
User avatar
ACCS300
Posts: 460
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:05 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:56 pm

musman9853 wrote:
Draken21fx wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

the 321xlr seems to be a hit. I wonder why airbus is so reticent for a rewing though? surely the investment would be worth it


The 321 was already outselling Boeing by far. They were in no need to rush things as they were making plenty of money.


the a320 leads the nb market, but only by like 8%. why not hit boeing while they're down and further the lead?


Are you referring to the A320neo family as a whole as I calculate roughly 6500 neo ( family ) sales vs just under 5000 for the MAX ( family ) as far more than 8%?
 
xwb777
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:57 pm

Oman Air has stated that they will engage in discussion withs Airbus at the Paris Airshow.
 
musman9853
Posts: 737
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:04 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
Draken21fx wrote:

The 321 was already outselling Boeing by far. They were in no need to rush things as they were making plenty of money.


the a320 leads the nb market, but only by like 8%. why not hit boeing while they're down and further the lead?


Are you referring to the A320neo family as a whole as I calculate roughly 6500 neo ( family ) sales vs just under 5000 for the MAX ( family ) as far more than 8%?


sorry, i thought it was like 5k to 6k, w/ boeing at 45% and ab at 55%.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
9Patch
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:38 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:31 pm

MoonC wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Quantas

Is it really that hard to spell Qantas?

Not hard to spell but it's hard to type it.
Muscle memory always wants to put a u after a q.
Last edited by 9Patch on Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
mr02
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:51 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:33 pm

SAA are expected to confirm/announce the order of 2 A350. I don't know if it's true or not but if it is,it might be the beginning of the end for the A340.
Last edited by mr02 on Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
9Patch
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:38 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:36 pm

keesje wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
I predict there will be no 737 Max 8 orders. :crazy:


Indeed FAA is mentioning december now, a bad sign. Not good for the admosphere in the marketplace / Paris.

Ahh... the real reason you started this thread.
I guess this comment falls into the gossip category.
Last edited by 9Patch on Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Draken21fx
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:38 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:37 pm

musman9853 wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

the a320 leads the nb market, but only by like 8%. why not hit boeing while they're down and further the lead?


Are you referring to the A320neo family as a whole as I calculate roughly 6500 neo ( family ) sales vs just under 5000 for the MAX ( family ) as far more than 8%?


sorry, i thought it was like 5k to 6k, w/ boeing at 45% and ab at 55%.


Plus I was referring to 321 not 320 where the lead is even greater vs the MAX9 and 10...
 
User avatar
Kindanew
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 11:07 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:33 pm

From reading various news articles, I predict we will see the launch of the A321 XLR and a couple of A330 Neo orders.

There will be many A320 Neo orders and a few A350 orders as well.
 
oschkosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:41 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:37 pm

Oh man, possibly 120 orders for A220! Sweet!

Spirit: Potential order of one hundred (100) A220 aircraft by Spirit Airlines of the US.

Air France: Rumours for a potential order of twenty (20) A220 aircraft plus options for twenty (20) more by Air France, subsidiary of the Air France KLM Group.

https://www.fliegerfaust.com/airbus-a22 ... 13255.html
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 17688
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:04 pm

oschkosch wrote:
Oh man, possibly 120 orders for A220! Sweet!

Spirit: Potential order of one hundred (100) A220 aircraft by Spirit Airlines of the US.

Air France: Rumours for a potential order of twenty (20) A220 aircraft plus options for twenty (20) more by Air France, subsidiary of the Air France KLM Group.

https://www.fliegerfaust.com/airbus-a22 ... 13255.html

Careful, Fliegerfaust over-reports on A220 potential sales. The joke is they confirmed 5 of the last 2 orders...


Spirit could order 25 or as many as 125. Or none.
AF/KLM is competing vs. E2 qty sounds right
IAG has bids out for 26 vs. E2


Unfortunately, LH will not order in 2019.

I just hope for 50+ A220 orders at Paris.

I also hope for 50+ E2 orders.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
trex8
Posts: 5326
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:20 pm

CI
1.converting their MOU from last month for 3+ 3 777Fs to 6 orders . I'm giving up on them replacing their 18 744Fs with 747-8F. :frown:
2. If they still have their 6 A359 options , converting those to firm orders. Those last of the line 744s gotta go in the next few years.
3. Some A330neos to start replacing some of their 23 A333s before the first come up to their 3rd heavy check in next few years.
4. A220 to replace AEs E190s (and maybe something smaller for IT than their present A320)
 
T4thH
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:22 pm

lightsaber wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
Oh man, possibly 120 orders for A220! Sweet!

Spirit: Potential order of one hundred (100) A220 aircraft by Spirit Airlines of the US.

Air France: Rumours for a potential order of twenty (20) A220 aircraft plus options for twenty (20) more by Air France, subsidiary of the Air France KLM Group.

https://www.fliegerfaust.com/airbus-a22 ... 13255.html

Careful, Fliegerfaust over-reports on A220 potential sales. The joke is they confirmed 5 of the last 2 orders...


Spirit could order 25 or as many as 125. Or none.
AF/KLM is competing vs. E2 qty sounds right
IAG has bids out for 26 vs. E2


Unfortunately, LH will not order in 2019.

I just hope for 50+ A220 orders at Paris.

I also hope for 50+ E2 orders.

Lightsaber


Air France has ordered every single Airbus product. There is no reason, why AF shall change there philosophy. And they regular perform their big orders on the Paris Air Show. So. if they will not order them next week, when they shall order them else?
I say, we will see more than 100 orders (or agreements who in next mobth will stated as firm orders)) and additional some options.
We will see less E2 family orders, than A220 orders.
 
smartplane
Posts: 1024
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:52 pm

A few airlines ordering A32 family AND A330NEO
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8363
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:10 pm

musman9853 wrote:
Draken21fx wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

the 321xlr seems to be a hit. I wonder why airbus is so reticent for a rewing though? surely the investment would be worth it


The 321 was already outselling Boeing by far. They were in no need to rush things as they were making plenty of money.


the a320 leads the nb market, but only by like 8%. why not hit boeing while they're down and further the lead?


make that 23%. 6506 to 5008 ordered frames neo to MAX
 
musman9853
Posts: 737
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:10 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
make that 23%. 6506 to 5008 ordered frames neo to MAX


6500/11500 is 56%

5000/11500 is 43%

That's a 13% difference. A bit more than what I remembered off the top of my head, but not 23% different
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:14 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
Draken21fx wrote:

The 321 was already outselling Boeing by far. They were in no need to rush things as they were making plenty of money.


the a320 leads the nb market, but only by like 8%. why not hit boeing while they're down and further the lead?


make that 23%. 6506 to 5008 ordered frames neo to MAX


Does the tape measure need to come out in every thread?

If Spirit orders A220, it’ll be very interesting, but I’ll be disappointed for the E2. It really needs to make a couple of big sales.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
T4thH
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:36 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

the a320 leads the nb market, but only by like 8%. why not hit boeing while they're down and further the lead?


make that 23%. 6506 to 5008 ordered frames neo to MAX


Does the tape measure need to come out in every thread?

If Spirit orders A220, it’ll be very interesting, but I’ll be disappointed for the E2. It really needs to make a couple of big sales.


Just ignore these discussions. who cares, which one is xpart of a mm taller than the other.
Regarding E2: You can't always get what you want. They will get an excellent second,place, while the A220 will be the next to last...of two competitors.

Overall we will only see a part of the number of orders in comparison to prior Air Shows.
 
aryonoco
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 1:51 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:18 am

Is it weird that the aircraft I'm most excited to see ordered is the A220?

I really want it to succeed, I want the order book to increase, the production line to ramp up massively, and I want to see an eventual A220-500.
 
Lewton
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:46 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:23 am

musman9853 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
make that 23%. 6506 to 5008 ordered frames neo to MAX


6500/11500 is 56%

5000/11500 is 43%

That's a 13% difference. A bit more than what I remembered off the top of my head, but not 23% different


That is not 13% difference.
You might say that it is 13 percentage points of market share more.

The difference is 30%. 6,500 is 30% more than 5,000.
Semantics. :smile:
 
leghorn
Posts: 869
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:59 am

Here's hoping for a ton of A220 orders, A220-500 announcement, sale of CRJ project and sale of Belfast plant announcement in the coming week as I want the BBD share price to temporarily jump allowing me to sell my shareholding. Bombardier is too much of a drama queen share for me and it is not the company that I bought in to anymore. Sick of them now.
 
Draken21fx
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:38 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:00 am

Lewton wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
make that 23%. 6506 to 5008 ordered frames neo to MAX


6500/11500 is 56%

5000/11500 is 43%

That's a 13% difference. A bit more than what I remembered off the top of my head, but not 23% different


That is not 13% difference.
You might say that it is 13 percentage points of market share more.

The difference is 30%. 6,500 is 30% more than 5,000.
Semantics. :smile:



And again although Boeing doesnt publishes the ratio between the MAX8/9/10, it is rumored the A321 outsells the MAX9 and 10 more than 2 to 1
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8363
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:19 am

musman9853 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
make that 23%. 6506 to 5008 ordered frames neo to MAX


6500/11500 is 56%

5000/11500 is 43%

That's a 13% difference. A bit more than what I remembered off the top of my head, but not 23% different


6,500 is either 23% or 30% more than 5,000, depends on what number you use as the base. Try it.
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1375
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:28 am

mjoelnir wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
make that 23%. 6506 to 5008 ordered frames neo to MAX


6500/11500 is 56%

5000/11500 is 43%

That's a 13% difference. A bit more than what I remembered off the top of my head, but not 23% different


6,500 is either 23% or 30% more than 5,000, depends on what number you use as the base. Try it.

Oh sweetie, the shallow manipulations of statistics to make your point is embarrassing. Let's do a reductio ad abrsudum.

Politician A has 60% of the vote, while politician B has 40%. The common understanding of this fact is that A has a 20% lead over B.
Even Politician A's campaign manager doesn't argue that they have a 50% lead, unless wishing to invite laughter.

But lies, damn lies, etc. etc.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 17265
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:36 am

mjoelnir wrote:
6,500 is either 23% or 30% more than 5,000, depends on what number you use as the base. Try it.


5,000 is 23% less than 6,500

AND

6,500 is 30% more than 5,000

Meanwhile, this has nothing to do with Paris, just sayin.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9363
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:54 am

Bricktop wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

6500/11500 is 56%

5000/11500 is 43%

That's a 13% difference. A bit more than what I remembered off the top of my head, but not 23% different


6,500 is either 23% or 30% more than 5,000, depends on what number you use as the base. Try it.

Oh sweetie, the shallow manipulations of statistics to make your point is embarrassing. Let's do a reductio ad abrsudum.

Politician A has 60% of the vote, while politician B has 40%. The common understanding of this fact is that A has a 20% lead over B.
Even Politician A's campaign manager doesn't argue that they have a 50% lead, unless wishing to invite laughter.

But lies, damn lies, etc. etc.

To be more specific, the base number is neither 6500 nor 5000. It is 11500. We are talking about differences between parts of a whole, not two random/separate numbers.

You can say Airbus has 30% more planes to build than Boeing, but you can’t say Airbus has a 30% higher market share. That is incorrect.
Last edited by Polot on Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1490
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossibs, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:56 am

ElroyJetson wrote:

I would love to see some A 220 sales as I think it is an outstanding aircraft.


Outstanding? In what way?
 
User avatar
TurboJet707
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 11:30 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:03 pm

T4thH wrote:
Air France has ordered every single Airbus product. There is no reason, why AF shall change there philosophy.


And they've ordered every single post-war Boeing product too, except for the 757.

Something that is often overlooked...
 
User avatar
TurboJet707
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 11:30 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:04 pm

Edit: double post
 
RalXWB
Posts: 437
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:36 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:09 pm

They never ordered the 767, too so the comparison is void.
 
User avatar
TurboJet707
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 11:30 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:49 pm



They did operate the 767
Last edited by TurboJet707 on Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
DartHerald
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:08 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:55 pm

From a 6-yr old thread:


Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 1):
Did AF get the 767s from UTA?

No, they did not. Air France ordered them directly from Boeing. The Air France 767s were built as 767-328ERs, that's how I know. If they came from UTA they would be 3B3ERs.
 
T4thH
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:00 pm

AF has even ordered the A318 and this is really rare. Only order for A220 family and A319 Neo sub-sub-type is pending.
LH/LH Group has at least ordered all Boeing types (not all subtypes) for LH and all other airlines of the LH group, icluding B757-300 for Condor and they were regular launch operator of Boeing types and subtypes, including B737 family, B757-300, B747-8 e.g., But LH has never ordered the A318.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 17265
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:44 pm

DartHerald wrote:
From a 6-yr old thread:


Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 1):
Did AF get the 767s from UTA?

No, they did not. Air France ordered them directly from Boeing. The Air France 767s were built as 767-328ERs, that's how I know. If they came from UTA they would be 3B3ERs.


Boeing's website shows an order for 3 GE powered 767-300ERs on 07/02/92.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
RalXWB
Posts: 437
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:36 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:45 pm

Only 3 of the 9 767s AF operated were -328s.
 
Miquel787
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:11 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:56 pm

Apparantly Willie Walsh is looking at the 737 MAX for Vueling..And also see a role for the MAX at BA in the future. Source: simpleflying.com
 
Rugbyplaer02115
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:24 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:50 pm

Air France ordered and operated the Boeing 767-200ER & 300ER from 1991 to 2003
Boeing 767-200ER 2 1991 1992
Boeing 767-300ER 8 1991 200
Both sets of aircraft ordered directly from Boeing. I pulled this from Wiki, but I can also go and pull the data from several books on the history of Air France or various other sources that airline aircraft inventory and history.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 17265
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:21 pm

Rugbyplaer02115 wrote:
Air France ordered and operated the Boeing 767-200ER & 300ER from 1991 to 2003
Boeing 767-200ER 2 1991 1992
Boeing 767-300ER 8 1991 200
Both sets of aircraft ordered directly from Boeing. I pulled this from Wiki, but I can also go and pull the data from several books on the history of Air France or various other sources that airline aircraft inventory and history.


Why not get your data from the best source available - Boeing itself? Boeing shows only one single order from AF for 3 x 767-300(ER) on 07/02/92.

The two 767-27E(ER) were originally delivered to Aeromaritime International.



Meanwhile, in Paris...
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
T4thH
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:03 pm

My few Cents, whar we will see and not see on the Paris Air Show. These are my few Cents, so what I will expect (post your own few Cents).

Projetcts:
Airbus:
- Official start of the A321 Xlr program.
- Information regarding new project CO2 neutral flights, Hybrid, further information of the european/Airbus program Clean-Sky (blade, laminar flow) e.g.
- Airbus Canada: Mirabel-> Presentation of plans for development of Mirabel FALs e.g. Status for A220 FAL in Mobile.
- Possibliy announcment for a (small) PIP for A220 program (part of it, 2 seats more).

- We will neithert see the A322 nor A320/321+ nor ++ e.g. These we will see as response of the A797.
- Announcement for A350 Neo we will see earliest next year (if not 2021)

Boeing.
They are now realy in trouble, several programs are postponed.,
- PIP for the B787?
- Some news regarding Boeing/Embraer Integration.
- Progress in laminar foils

- B777-X program is delayed, (pretty sure they had planned to perform the first test flight during Paris Air Show)
- We will not see the Embraer E3 family
- No start of the Boeing 797/NMA, only some presentations, but nothing real, like range, PAX, MTOW e.g. We will see this earliest 2020, if any more (they are 10 years to late or 5 years to early)
- B737 Max; I fear althoug nothing real new.

PW: A big PIP for the geared PW1000G family.as they have slowly fixed all major issues.

Mitsubishi/Bombardier: Take over of the CRJ program by Mitsubishi. Perhaps announcement, facilities in Belfast and/or Marocco are sold?

The new big hype: Air Taxis (and 99.5 % of these projects will disapear again earlier or later)

Orders:
We will overall only see a part of the orders, we have seen during prior /last years Air Shows. Perhaps just 50%.
The announced "big order for Boeing" from China but again, nothing firm?

Orders for Boeing:
Freighters:
Some orders for B777F and possily also one or two for the B767F and B747-8F.

Passenger jets:
No orders for the B747-8i
low number of orders for the B777-X
No orders for the B777 standard
Several nice orders for the B787
No orders for the B737 Max (and if,, than without naming, who have ordered them).
E-175: still some orders from US regionál market (depending of orders for the Mitsubishi Space jet MRJ 70 follow up). Nothing anymore for E-190 and E195.
E2-Family: No for E-175E2, few orders for E-190E2 and E-195E2 worldwide, with exception of the US. Less than for A220 and no big airlines (more small ones from Africa, Asia and South America).

Orders for Airbus:
Freighters:
Nothing.

Passenger jets:
- A350: few nice orders, less than for the B787.
- A330 Neo: More than I had expected some weeks earlier.(I had feared none) but now we will see some (perhaps even a higher number than for the A350).
A320 Family: We will see several NEW big and small orders, especially for the A321,Neo less for the A320 Neo and no for the A319 Neo.
There will be several conversions from A320 to A321,and A321 LR and Xlr and conversions from A321 Neo to LR and Xlr. And perhaps we will even see conversions from A330 Neo to the A320 Xlr.
Overall long terrm, around 20% of the A321 produced will be LR and Xlr.
- More than 200 to 300 A321 Xlr orders and conversions, Many different airlines, expecially many of the real big ones. Regular only mid size orders of 10 to 30 jets/airline, perhaps bigger one for IndiGo airlines (launch customer?).
- One big FIRM order of the Ryanair group (yes this with the B737 fleet) for 50 and more A321 (all versions) (standard + (less for LR) + Xlr) and 50 options. And O'Leary will announce it personal. And if someone is now believing, I am a little bit cazy;; it is for Lauda-Motion and aknoledgement was already announced during a news conference in Jan-2019
- Big order from IndiGo Airlines, A321 family..

-A220: some nice orders, in total more than 100. Of them, one NEW all single jet Airline will be announced (as example, IndiGo Partners is planning a new one for Canada).

Bombardier passenger jets (CRJ family))-> nothing.

Mitsubishi regional/space jet: MRJ-90: no new orders (or one small) MRJ-70 is dead. Conversion of existing MRL-90 orders to the follow up,new space jet (Trans states Holding and Skywest), possibly additional orders from US regional airlines for the new jet, as it is in the scope clauses.

Turboprop:
ATR: few orders for the ATR-72, no orders for the Q-400.

COMAC:
No international orders

Superjet 100-> Dead,
Irkut MC-21: -> Dead.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15370
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Paris Airshow 2019, Expectations, Gossip, Announcements

Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:21 pm

Conversion of existing A320NEO orders for AS into A321XLR? It’s possible! With a new senior vice president of fleet, finance and alliances coming aboard from DL as of August 1, it’s likely he’s been read in on the direction the company has chosen to go with regard to the fleet. Could Paris be where this takes place, IF it takes place?

(For the record, I’ve heard exactly zero on the fleet decision of late; this is just conjecture)
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos