acavpics
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Is TK going to EWR or not?

Tue May 28, 2019 5:15 pm

In fall of last year, TK announced that they were planning daily A330 service to EWR in August of this year. However, there has been no word on this service since then. The flight does not seem to be showing up on any booking sight.

Somewhere I read that TK was negotiating with PANYNJ for arrival and departure slots that would allow for more people to connect to/from UA flights at EWR. But I'm not sure how accurate that was.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Tue May 28, 2019 5:38 pm

They were denied viable slots timings. Has nothing to do with UA connections, but timing at IST hub.
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enilria
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Tue May 28, 2019 7:31 pm

LAXintl wrote:
They were denied viable slots timings. Has nothing to do with UA connections, but timing at IST hub.

Agreed, but United could likely have easily helped fix this. At the core is a strained relationship between TK and the rest of the Star carriers because TK is expanding faster than they like.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Tue May 28, 2019 8:30 pm

acavpics wrote:
The flight does not seem to be showing up on any booking sight.


That's pretty good confirmation that the carrier - at least those typically selling via GDS - isn't going to be operating the route any time soon.
 
asuflyer
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Tue May 28, 2019 9:56 pm

enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
They were denied viable slots timings. Has nothing to do with UA connections, but timing at IST hub.

Agreed, but United could likely have easily helped fix this. At the core is a strained relationship between TK and the rest of the Star carriers because TK is expanding faster than they like.


UA has never really helped facilitate SA connections at EWR. LH and TP asked to use Terminal C years back, and UA said no. Now Terminal C its at capacity in the evenings. TK wanted an afternoon arrival, evening departure out of EWR. The PANYNJ did not offer acceptable times due to lack of gate space at Terminal B. Terminal B is at capacity in the afternoons and evenings too, some UA arrivals arrive their as well. In fact this is the reason why ET now has to split their flight to ADD partly at EWR and at JFK.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Tue May 28, 2019 9:59 pm

wow ... Ugly relationship between these two airlines
 
CO787EWR
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Tue May 28, 2019 10:10 pm

asuflyer wrote:
enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
They were denied viable slots timings. Has nothing to do with UA connections, but timing at IST hub.

Agreed, but United could likely have easily helped fix this. At the core is a strained relationship between TK and the rest of the Star carriers because TK is expanding faster than they like.


UA has never really helped facilitate SA connections at EWR. LH and TP asked to use Terminal C years back, and UA said no. Now Terminal C its at capacity in the evenings. TK wanted an afternoon arrival, evening departure out of EWR. The PANYNJ did not offer acceptable times due to lack of gate space at Terminal B. Terminal B is at capacity in the afternoons and evenings too, some UA arrivals arrive their as well. In fact this is the reason why ET now has to split their flight to ADD partly at EWR and at JFK.


Do you have connections at LH or UA, I've never heard this before.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Tue May 28, 2019 10:10 pm

asuflyer wrote:
enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
They were denied viable slots timings. Has nothing to do with UA connections, but timing at IST hub.

Agreed, but United could likely have easily helped fix this. At the core is a strained relationship between TK and the rest of the Star carriers because TK is expanding faster than they like.


UA has never really helped facilitate SA connections at EWR. LH and TP asked to use Terminal C years back, and UA said no. Now Terminal C its at capacity in the evenings. TK wanted an afternoon arrival, evening departure out of EWR. The PANYNJ did not offer acceptable times due to lack of gate space at Terminal B. Terminal B is at capacity in the afternoons and evenings too, some UA arrivals arrive their as well. In fact this is the reason why ET now has to split their flight to ADD partly at EWR and at JFK.


I also saw a picture of SK and AF in Terminal C back when CO was still around. Do you know when SK got kicked out, and when LH wanted in?
 
avek00
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Tue May 28, 2019 10:40 pm

CO787EWR wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
enilria wrote:
Agreed, but United could likely have easily helped fix this. At the core is a strained relationship between TK and the rest of the Star carriers because TK is expanding faster than they like.


UA has never really helped facilitate SA connections at EWR. LH and TP asked to use Terminal C years back, and UA said no. Now Terminal C its at capacity in the evenings. TK wanted an afternoon arrival, evening departure out of EWR. The PANYNJ did not offer acceptable times due to lack of gate space at Terminal B. Terminal B is at capacity in the afternoons and evenings too, some UA arrivals arrive their as well. In fact this is the reason why ET now has to split their flight to ADD partly at EWR and at JFK.


Do you have connections at LH or UA, I've never heard this before.


United is not philosophically opposed to co-locating with its joint venture or Star Alliance partners...the problem is two-fold:

1) Nearly all of the relevant UA North American gateways (EWR, IAH, IAD, SFO, LAX, and ORD to a degree) suffer from a shortage of useful gate space during the key departure periods when partners want to operate their flights; and

2) For cost reasons, virtually all partners would opt for a third party handling agent instead of using UA's own staff, so the efficiency upside of co-location diminishes somewhat.
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klm617
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Wed May 29, 2019 12:59 am

Who got the WOW Air slot and what was the process for acquiring it. Would have thought TK could have got that one.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Wed May 29, 2019 3:21 am

klm617 wrote:
Who got the WOW Air slot and what was the process for acquiring it. Would have thought TK could have got that one.


WW used Gate 57, which is a narrow-body gate only. The best way in might be if TK can negotiate with EI for Gate 55, but that would require EI to down-gauge EI101/0 to an A321LR year-round. With United flying the B78X on EWR-DUB, that's not happening.

The best option would be to make JFK year round 2x B77W daily and 1x B789 daily (the B789 starts next year on TK3/4). TK would want to use 3x B77W daily, but cannot get a gate that can handle a B77W daily on TK3/4, likely because SV, J2 (certain days) and KE (A388) are already there and other gates are needed for LH Group arrivals.

As for UA, they can't even accommodate all of their planes on gates. Oftentimes, non-mainline planes have to use buses.
 
EWRamp
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Wed May 29, 2019 5:22 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
enilria wrote:
Agreed, but United could likely have easily helped fix this. At the core is a strained relationship between TK and the rest of the Star carriers because TK is expanding faster than they like.


UA has never really helped facilitate SA connections at EWR. LH and TP asked to use Terminal C years back, and UA said no. Now Terminal C its at capacity in the evenings. TK wanted an afternoon arrival, evening departure out of EWR. The PANYNJ did not offer acceptable times due to lack of gate space at Terminal B. Terminal B is at capacity in the afternoons and evenings too, some UA arrivals arrive their as well. In fact this is the reason why ET now has to split their flight to ADD partly at EWR and at JFK.


I also saw a picture of SK and AF in Terminal C back when CO was still around. Do you know when SK got kicked out, and when LH wanted in?


I remember seeing a picture of AF Concorde parked at gate C106
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Wed May 29, 2019 9:22 am

avek00 wrote:
United is not philosophically opposed to co-locating with its joint venture or Star Alliance partners...the problem is two-fold:

1) Nearly all of the relevant UA North American gateways (EWR, IAH, IAD, SFO, LAX, and ORD to a degree) suffer from a shortage of useful gate space during the key departure periods when partners want to operate their flights; and

2) For cost reasons, virtually all partners would opt for a third party handling agent instead of using UA's own staff, so the efficiency upside of co-location diminishes somewhat.


Gate space isn't a show-stopper

Fly UA to FRA and find out how buses can be regularlly used for long-haul flights.
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acavpics
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Wed May 29, 2019 12:36 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
avek00 wrote:
United is not philosophically opposed to co-locating with its joint venture or Star Alliance partners...the problem is two-fold:

1) Nearly all of the relevant UA North American gateways (EWR, IAH, IAD, SFO, LAX, and ORD to a degree) suffer from a shortage of useful gate space during the key departure periods when partners want to operate their flights; and

2) For cost reasons, virtually all partners would opt for a third party handling agent instead of using UA's own staff, so the efficiency upside of co-location diminishes somewhat.


Gate space isn't a show-stopper

Fly UA to FRA and find out how buses can be regularlly used for long-haul flights.


If busees were to be used at US airport, then they should have space to build departure areas /facilities for those departing from "bus gates", or whatever they are called. I doubt that there is such space at EWR's terminals.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Wed May 29, 2019 2:47 pm

EWR is NOT slot-restricted.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Wed May 29, 2019 2:54 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
avek00 wrote:
United is not philosophically opposed to co-locating with its joint venture or Star Alliance partners...the problem is two-fold:

1) Nearly all of the relevant UA North American gateways (EWR, IAH, IAD, SFO, LAX, and ORD to a degree) suffer from a shortage of useful gate space during the key departure periods when partners want to operate their flights; and

2) For cost reasons, virtually all partners would opt for a third party handling agent instead of using UA's own staff, so the efficiency upside of co-location diminishes somewhat.


Gate space isn't a show-stopper

Fly UA to FRA and find out how buses can be regularlly used for long-haul flights.


EWR is pretty space-constrained though, surrounded by the New Jersey Turnpike on the east, NJ 81 on the south, and US 1/9 on the west and north. Buses typically tend to be used for non-mainline flights. There would not be room for bus hardstands without closing 11/29 permanently (the cross-wind runway).
 
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N62NA
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Wed May 29, 2019 9:11 pm

There is the new terminal replacing Terminal A coming online at some point. Maybe that will help.
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iadadd
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Thu May 30, 2019 1:16 am

asuflyer wrote:
enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
They were denied viable slots timings. Has nothing to do with UA connections, but timing at IST hub.

Agreed, but United could likely have easily helped fix this. At the core is a strained relationship between TK and the rest of the Star carriers because TK is expanding faster than they like.


UA has never really helped facilitate SA connections at EWR. LH and TP asked to use Terminal C years back, and UA said no. Now Terminal C its at capacity in the evenings. TK wanted an afternoon arrival, evening departure out of EWR. The PANYNJ did not offer acceptable times due to lack of gate space at Terminal B. Terminal B is at capacity in the afternoons and evenings too, some UA arrivals arrive their as well. In fact this is the reason why ET now has to split their flight to ADD partly at EWR and at JFK.


To be fair, ET actually doesn't want to be at EWR, they are only at EWR because they couldn't get good JFK slots. UA and ET are okay (better than UA+TK), but they don't even codeshare out of EWR and ET tends to sell connections (on UA) via IAD or ORD as its NYC operation is focused on NYC-West Africa O/D.
 
YYZORD
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Thu May 30, 2019 4:12 am

If you guys don't mind me asking, what is the ultimate capacity for EWR?
 
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janders
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Thu May 30, 2019 6:03 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
EWR is NOT slot-restricted.


While not ATC slot restricted, PANYNJ manages gate allocations among international flights and one must receive parking slot blessing otherwise no where to operate from.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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N62NA
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Re: Is TK going to EWR or not?

Thu May 30, 2019 2:29 pm

YYZORD wrote:
If you guys don't mind me asking, what is the ultimate capacity for EWR?


In terms of passengers, it could go well beyond where it is now by simply using larger aircraft. I suppose the actual number could be computed by taking the number of gates, figuring out the largest aircraft that could be at each gate and the capacity of those aircraft, and doing the math. And then, allowing for perhaps 2 hours for each aircraft at a gate, multiply it by 12. Of course this is not at all realistic as it assumes maximum usage at every hour of the day!

Coming back to reality, in terms of aircraft movements, I would say that the airport is already operating ABOVE capacity, as every time there is a rain drop within 150 miles of the place, ground stops and 3+ hour delays are commonplace.
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