Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
DutchBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 pm

AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 9:53 am

A few months ago, at the end of the JOON-period, I flew CPT-CDG with them in Business and forgive me, but I seriously disliked the experience: for one, the blue mood lighting (anti-junky-shoot-light I call it) had a very bad effect on the perceived meal quality: it made all the food look grey / old-pink and part of the food enjoyment / taste perception is the colour too of course. It was very unappealing to eat. The catering during the whole flight was, whatever they say, below AF standard: less elaborate and clearly cheaper. The IFE (content) was also def worse than on AF (I don't have my own device, so I rely on the fixed option): less choice and the new screens were so mirror-like, that I saw myself more than the screen. Last but not least: not a fully flat bed.

Anyway, JOON is gone, was indeed a failed experiment, so no point in dwelling on what a poor experience this was. However... I do have, to my anxiety, two more CPT-CDG in Business booked, one in DEC 19 & one in FEB 20. Given a scheduling issue, this was unfortunately the only choice (but I am trying to change it). Questions:

1). Is there any chance the A340 might be replaced by i.e. a regular AF A332 / A359 / B777 by then? I saw some other ex-JOON-A340-destinations are now being replaced by other a/c, so I am hoping CPT will be too. Does anybody have any information on this?

2). I know AF will keep the A340's in JOON colours, eventhough they will now be flying under AF-brand. I assume the seats will also not be changed, but how about that horrendous lighting concept: will they (have they?) revert(ed) this to a more mild AF-version (blue is not so much AF of course, red is more dominant)? Or will the JOON-style remain? And will the IFE (content, not hardware of course) + catering have been brought up to AF standards? Or will they also be keeping the JOON-style in this?

I hope somebody has some more inside into this. Thank you very much.
 
DutchBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 11:36 am

Strange, on the wikipedia page of AF the A340's are not even mentioned anymore. Have they been withdrawn from service already? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France#Current_fleet
 
Jetty
Posts: 1284
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 11:39 am

Joon is an airline for millennials. If you didn’t like the experience, may I ask if you were part of their target audience? Maybe it’s just a generation gap at play here.
 
DutchBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 12:04 pm

Well, I am 42, so close... But a silly argument / question. A 'millenial' is a person like every one else. It is not an alien with a complete different palate of tastes. Even a 'millenial' doesn't want to eat gray food, wants a lie-flat bed and a proper meal. JOON is simply a poor product whether your are 8, 18 or 80. And indeed, perhaps those silly polo-shirts and sneakers would appeal to younger people, they certainly don't appeal to me!

What is more: if AF would give people the choice of flying JOON over regular AF, then fine, let everyone fly what they like. However, they just select a few destinations a force people without choice to fly on them. Their long haul destination choice was also very odd for a so called 'hip' airline. They just wanted to slash costs on some routes. CAI/THR, really?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10520
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 12:10 pm

DutchBoeing wrote:
Strange, on the wikipedia page of AF the A340's are not even mentioned anymore. Have they been withdrawn from service already? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France#Current_fleet

Joon, and their 5 A343s, is as of right now still separate from AF. It is being folded back into AF in late June.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4758
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 12:43 pm

Joon still very much exist.
AF has not transitioned brand.

https://www.airfrance.fr/FR/en/local/ho ... nAction.do
mercure f-wtcc
 
DutchBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 12:55 pm

True, I see, still exists, but only until the end of June. What happens then? Will the service return completely to AF level, apart from the paint / seats?
 
AirwayBill
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:37 am

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 1:01 pm

DutchBoeing wrote:
Well, I am 42, so close... But a silly argument / question. A 'millenial' is a person like every one else. It is not an alien with a complete different palate of tastes. Even a 'millenial' doesn't want to eat gray food, wants a lie-flat bed and a proper meal. JOON is simply a poor product whether your are 8, 18 or 80. And indeed, perhaps those silly polo-shirts and sneakers would appeal to younger people, they certainly don't appeal to me!

What is more: if AF would give people the choice of flying JOON over regular AF, then fine, let everyone fly what they like. However, they just select a few destinations a force people without choice to fly on them. Their long haul destination choice was also very odd for a so called 'hip' airline. They just wanted to slash costs on some routes. CAI/THR, really?


And the Seychelles! Which is far from being a "low cost" holiday destination... It's common knowledge that Joon is nothing short of a marketing ploy to cut costs on FAs, and other Services, and it is, along with Hop!, another confusing factor for the general public about Air France's product offering, which is finally getting streamlined with the end of Joon and streamlined AF/Hop! positioning. In the end the money drained by R&D for Joon will probably outweigh the savings the subsidiary was aimed to provide, which would be quite ironic.

I doubt any further rework/refitting/repainting of AF/Joon's 343 is in the plans. The A340-300 has very little life left in Air France's fleet anyways, so any costly change such as repainting/retrofitting/others will probably be avoided altogether. I think pretty much everything will be left in the controversial Joon style until retirement, including the eye-gouging electric blue moodlighting.
 
User avatar
spinkid
Posts: 1893
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:59 am

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 2:12 pm

DutchBoeing wrote:
A few months ago, at the end of the JOON-period, I flew CPT-CDG with them in Business and forgive me, but I seriously disliked the experience: for one, the blue mood lighting (anti-junky-shoot-light I call it) had a very bad effect on the perceived meal quality: it made all the food look grey / old-pink and part of the food enjoyment / taste perception is the colour too of course. It was very unappealing to eat.

.



The horror
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7775
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 2:18 pm

If you buy on the presence of mood lighting, sneakers, IFE content, and coach catering you are very special. Those aren't in the top five decision criteria for most long-haul flyers: price, price, price, price, and schedule.
 
User avatar
Slash787
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 2:28 pm

2 months ago I flew Joon from Bombay to Paris and I had a pretty nice experience compared to the one on AF A330.

At least the Joon aircrafts were refurbished, the seats were comfortable and there was IFE.

On the AF A330 the seats were broken, the IFE was not working and over all it was a horrible experience. It would be better for Air France to either retire their A330's or really refurbish them ASAP.
 
klakzky123
Posts: 688
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:05 am

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 3:55 pm

Slash787 wrote:
2 months ago I flew Joon from Bombay to Paris and I had a pretty nice experience compared to the one on AF A330.

At least the Joon aircrafts were refurbished, the seats were comfortable and there was IFE.

On the AF A330 the seats were broken, the IFE was not working and over all it was a horrible experience. It would be better for Air France to either retire their A330's or really refurbish them ASAP.


Some of those AF A330s are like the A340s before the Joon refurbishment. The Joon planes are pretty decent in my opinion. The lighting isn't my favorite but the seats are fine and the IFE is now pretty good as opposed to the barely functioning tiny square box IFE that they used to have.

Honestly, they just need to tone down the terrible lighting. Otherwise, they're an above average experience among AF planes (although they still have the older business class seats so maybe that isn't true for J).
 
DutchBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 6:59 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
If you buy on the presence of mood lighting, sneakers, IFE content, and coach catering you are very special. Those aren't in the top five decision criteria for most long-haul flyers: price, price, price, price, and schedule.


My apologies, but a really weird reply. Especially in Business Class people don't just choose on price. That is more an economy class thing. Why would airlines otherwise go out of their way to upgrade their premium cabins? About 70-80% of an airline's revenue comes from the 10-30% sitting in a premium cabin. If you have the choice between paying a bit more for a better product, wouldn't you? Even DL recognises that people don't just choose on price, so they're upgrading their product all the time.
 
DutchBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 7:06 pm

spinkid wrote:
DutchBoeing wrote:
A few months ago, at the end of the JOON-period, I flew CPT-CDG with them in Business and forgive me, but I seriously disliked the experience: for one, the blue mood lighting (anti-junky-shoot-light I call it) had a very bad effect on the perceived meal quality: it made all the food look grey / old-pink and part of the food enjoyment / taste perception is the colour too of course. It was very unappealing to eat.

.



The horror


Well, if you are used to always flying in Business, this indeed is! ;-)
 
Someone83
Posts: 4821
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 7:37 pm

Isn’t Joon A340s being replaced by Air France’s A350-900s?
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 8:02 pm

DutchBoeing wrote:
True, I see, still exists, but only until the end of June. What happens then? Will the service return completely to AF level, apart from the paint / seats?

The service is already back to AF standards since March. Joon crews are being integrated into AF.
For instance, today I flew VIE-CDG. It was a Joon-painted aircraft but the crew was all AF uniforms. Interiors were all back to AF except the curtains which were still the blue ones from Joon.
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 8:06 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Isn’t Joon A340s being replaced by Air France’s A350-900s?

Not being replaced it will be replaced. The 1st A350 will be delivered during the fall 2019. But it is not going to Joon routes (1st routes are in Africa and YYZ).
To come back to OP question, yes the A340 will be gone soon and so you have a chance that to CPT next year, you’ll have either a refurbished A332 (retrofit is on-going) or a B787 or an A350. The A343 are very very tired and it is really time to withdraw them. I had to bet on the last route that will be operated by an A343, it would be SXM.
 
DutchBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 9:29 pm

Strange CDG-CPT would be one the last destinations to get a more premium cabin. It is a "snazzy" destination with a lot "snazzy" & affluent people flying to it, who have the choice between a lot of other airlines. It is really such a poor yield route? I suspect so given the fact JOON flies it, but it does surprise me. KL sends virtually daily a B773 all year round (also B772 of course) and it is almost always full.
 
AF773
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:25 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 10:00 pm

DutchBoeing wrote:

1). Is there any chance the A340 might be replaced by i.e. a regular AF A332 / A359 / B777 by then? I saw some other ex-JOON-A340-destinations are now being replaced by other a/c, so I am hoping CPT will be too. Does anybody have any information on this?


I would imagine they would revert to either the 332 or 772 as both flew that rout prior to your moonlighting nightmares ;)
Next flights: SAN-LAX-MEX; SAN-ATL-PNS; SNA-ATL-CDG-SEA-SNA; LAX-CDG; ORY-FEZ; NCE-AMS-TPE-MNL-TAG
 
bamf777
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:05 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 10:01 pm

Don’t forget BA with 744 year round. CPT is primarily a leisure route, don’t forget.
If you’re that bothered by the aircraft type, why not fly via JNB?
Connections are easy and there’s plenty of them.
The postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent those of my employers positions, strategies or opinions
 
DutchBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Wed May 29, 2019 10:52 pm

bamf777 wrote:
Don’t forget BA with 744 year round. CPT is primarily a leisure route, don’t forget.
If you’re that bothered by the aircraft type, why not fly via JNB?
Connections are easy and there’s plenty of them.


Hahaha, yes, you are right, but I am, apparently, a bit fussy: on JNB-CDG AF flies the A380 and that is my second least favourite AF/KL- a/c type. Yes, the A380 is a mighty monster and fun in that aspect, but as a seasoned (euphemism for spoiled ;-) ) Business Class traveller, I also really don't like the Business Class on the A380 and try to avoid it: the seats are way too close together and also not really lie-flat. Besides that, I am a window person and it is quite difficult to look properly out the window on an A380, so I am not a fan. I have flown it a lot (the AF A380 to JNB), but in my experience (so of course not representative, but for me it is) the flight is always delayed.

Just for the record: I generally do like AF/KL quite a lot. AF has a stylish product, good catering and the new BEST cabin is really great. KL is warmer than AF (crew mainly), has an even better IFE choice than AF, is generally always on-time, has clean cabins, but the catering is a bit hit and miss: sometimes really great, sometimes rather disappointing. Seats on KL are great on B789/781, but on B777/A330 so so. They are lie-flat, but still not every seat has aisle access, while that has become an industry standard very quickly. Their new seats already feel a bit outdated (not the Dreamliner ones).
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Fri May 31, 2019 12:38 am

DutchBoeing wrote:
bamf777 wrote:
Don’t forget BA with 744 year round. CPT is primarily a leisure route, don’t forget.
If you’re that bothered by the aircraft type, why not fly via JNB?
Connections are easy and there’s plenty of them.


Hahaha, yes, you are right, but I am, apparently, a bit fussy: on JNB-CDG AF flies the A380 and that is my second least favourite AF/KL- a/c type. Yes, the A380 is a mighty monster and fun in that aspect, but as a seasoned (euphemism for spoiled ;-) ) Business Class traveller, I also really don't like the Business Class on the A380 and try to avoid it: the seats are way too close together and also not really lie-flat. Besides that, I am a window person and it is quite difficult to look properly out the window on an A380, so I am not a fan. I have flown it a lot (the AF A380 to JNB), but in my experience (so of course not representative, but for me it is) the flight is always delayed.

Just for the record: I generally do like AF/KL quite a lot. AF has a stylish product, good catering and the new BEST cabin is really great. KL is warmer than AF (crew mainly), has an even better IFE choice than AF, is generally always on-time, has clean cabins, but the catering is a bit hit and miss: sometimes really great, sometimes rather disappointing. Seats on KL are great on B789/781, but on B777/A330 so so. They are lie-flat, but still not every seat has aisle access, while that has become an industry standard very quickly. Their new seats already feel a bit outdated (not the Dreamliner ones).

You’ll be happy to know that the AF B77W is now on the JNB route, so with the BEST cabins :smile:
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2804
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Fri May 31, 2019 1:08 am

If Joon is flying to CPT, then it's a low yield route.
Be careful what you wish for... You could get a battered up AF 772- very poorly maintained cabin.
At 42 you are older than a millennial, but from your posts you seem to be acting like one lol
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1202
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Fri May 31, 2019 2:37 am

I’ll a refurbished AF A340 over a A380 any day (in J that is). The slant of the J seat on the A380 is one of the few where I slide down in the night. Plus I find the cabin to just have too many people.
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2983
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Fri May 31, 2019 2:42 am

eta unknown wrote:
If Joon is flying to CPT, then it's a low yield route.
Be careful what you wish for... You could get a battered up AF 772- very poorly maintained cabin.
At 42 you are older than a millennial, but from your posts you seem to be acting like one lol


I actually flew on F-GSPA, their first 772 and I was very impressed with its Cabin. That is not what a battered up and poorly maintained cabin looks like.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2804
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Fri May 31, 2019 4:06 am

I envy you. I was on F-GSPB last month and was far from impressed. However, the worst I ever experienced was a PAL 742 way back in the day (masking tape keeping cabin wall panels together), but the AF 772 was the runner up.
 
User avatar
alancostello
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Fri May 31, 2019 10:12 am

eta unknown wrote:
At 42 you are older than a millennial, but from your posts you seem to be acting like one lol


How does one act like a millennial? Ripped jeans and concern for the climate?
 
DutchBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Fri May 31, 2019 11:19 am

eta unknown wrote:
If Joon is flying to CPT, then it's a low yield route.
Be careful what you wish for... You could get a battered up AF 772- very poorly maintained cabin.
At 42 you are older than a millennial, but from your posts you seem to be acting like one lol


As aviation is my hobby, I do pay closer attention to detail than most regular passengers I guess. I like to compare products. AF/KL is very inconsistant in its offering: there are a lot of different Busines Class seat types out there on both airlines, so it simply matters on which a/c type you fly. And if you spend a lot of money on Business Class, aren't you allowed to get a good experience? In Business people don't just choose on price...
 
DutchBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Fri May 31, 2019 2:33 pm

goldorak wrote:
DutchBoeing wrote:
bamf777 wrote:
Don’t forget BA with 744 year round. CPT is primarily a leisure route, don’t forget.
If you’re that bothered by the aircraft type, why not fly via JNB?
Connections are easy and there’s plenty of them.


Hahaha, yes, you are right, but I am, apparently, a bit fussy: on JNB-CDG AF flies the A380 and that is my second least favourite AF/KL- a/c type. Yes, the A380 is a mighty monster and fun in that aspect, but as a seasoned (euphemism for spoiled ;-) ) Business Class traveller, I also really don't like the Business Class on the A380 and try to avoid it: the seats are way too close together and also not really lie-flat. Besides that, I am a window person and it is quite difficult to look properly out the window on an A380, so I am not a fan. I have flown it a lot (the AF A380 to JNB), but in my experience (so of course not representative, but for me it is) the flight is always delayed.

Just for the record: I generally do like AF/KL quite a lot. AF has a stylish product, good catering and the new BEST cabin is really great. KL is warmer than AF (crew mainly), has an even better IFE choice than AF, is generally always on-time, has clean cabins, but the catering is a bit hit and miss: sometimes really great, sometimes rather disappointing. Seats on KL are great on B789/781, but on B777/A330 so so. They are lie-flat, but still not every seat has aisle access, while that has become an industry standard very quickly. Their new seats already feel a bit outdated (not the Dreamliner ones).

You’ll be happy to know that the AF B77W is now on the JNB route, so with the BEST cabins :smile:


This is only in our Summer, their Winter, but I fly mainly between NOV-MAR and then it still is A380.
 
DutchBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 pm

Re: AF ex-JOON A340 to CPT replacement

Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:36 am

Well, all is well that ends well: AF just swapped the A340 for a B772 with Best cabin on both my flights. I am looking forward to my flights now! ;-)

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos