Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
MR27122
Topic Author
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 3:00 am

737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 4:20 pm

The latest I've read is very conflicting...Bloomberg reports Boeing has shared it's confidence that the MAX will be back in the skies by July...whereas CNN doesn't report a specific time-frame, but suggests it's gonna be a lot more arduous 'cause FAA approval won't equate to Global re-cert (UA just canceled more MAX flights, pushing re-entry back) & it's gonna have to pass muster w/ >11 Global Aviation Regulators/Authorities.

With uncertainty re: any "somewhat" firm time-frame (i.e."until further notice" upon SW website) I was curious about the retired/stored 737-300's. The MAX accounts for < 5% of SW's fleet, yet w/ Summer travel upon us...has any consideration been given to a "band-aide" -300 un-retirement of like 35 frames (I think SW has 34 MAX). Yes, I'm cognizant of "bean counters" running the arithmetic & deducing it wouldn't be fiscally prudent....however, SW is in an unenviable position---no MAX no growth, no retirements of frames, etc. SW is dependent upon Boeing/FAA/Regulators for the delivery of it's next new frame. Furthermore, I assume (never a good thing!!) that Boeing would do anything/everything to placate SW...including incurring the costs of bringing back -300's as a hopefully, short-term, bridge. Basically this whole MAX odyssey is truly F'd up, to put it eloquently, & SW in North America appears to be the worst positioned due to one-type mandate & thus dependency.

In searching the Interwebnet....I came across this article...the Headline is quasi-hysterical for purposes of public hysteria & I had to include it in this post (ridiculous). Thanks!

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/busine ... ps-n999971
 
impilot
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:38 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 4:46 pm

Think this has already been discussed here quite a bit. No...won’t happen.
 
mwhcvt
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:01 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 6:28 pm

If it were totally crippling WN there are NG aircraft available especially thanks to the recent demise of Jet Airways now some have already been taken on by other airlines only yesterday are former Jet frame arrived in MAN to be painted into Jet2 colours I’m confident some of the former Jet Airways frames could be taken up by WN if they really needed them and I’m sure Boeing would help in covering the costs

But in reality if it’s taking this action or some how reactivating retired frames with the issues associated with either option by the time it’s done Boeing probably hopes or expects to have the MAX back in the sky
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4848
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 6:40 pm

Boeing is of course doing everything in their power to get it approved ASAP. Behind the scenes you bet they are lobbying hard.

Pretty typical for a company to stay optimistic , they want to reduce the airlines asking for compensation. Boeing knows they won't be flying in July , we all do. The public has gotten no confidence boosting why it's safe.
 
WN732
Posts: 823
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 6:41 pm

There isn't a snowflake let alone a snowball in hell chance of ever seeing a 737-300 flying for Southwest again. Not a single pilot at WN can even fly them anymore and the time it would take a train an even relatively small group would probably take longer than the remainder of the grounding. Not to mention that most of those jets need some heavy work to get going again. It's sad but unfortunately true.
 
User avatar
barney captain
Posts: 2364
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 6:50 pm

Horse is dead

Please delete this thread.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Starfuryt
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:58 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 7:01 pm

isn't there a 100 page thread on this already?
 
User avatar
Keith2004
Posts: 302
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:59 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 7:04 pm

In before this thread is merged with the 100 pager lol
 
afgeneral
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:43 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 7:22 pm

WN732 wrote:
There isn't a snowflake let alone a snowball in hell chance of ever seeing a 737-300 flying for Southwest again. Not a single pilot at WN can even fly them anymore and the time it would take a train an even relatively small group would probably take longer than the remainder of the grounding. Not to mention that most of those jets need some heavy work to get going again. It's sad but unfortunately true.


time to train 737 Classic pilots can be quantified

time remaining of grounding is unknown (could be 2 months or never)

might as well start looking at 737 Classic and Airbus
 
User avatar
SierraPacific
Posts: 435
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 7:41 pm

afgeneral wrote:
WN732 wrote:
There isn't a snowflake let alone a snowball in hell chance of ever seeing a 737-300 flying for Southwest again. Not a single pilot at WN can even fly them anymore and the time it would take a train an even relatively small group would probably take longer than the remainder of the grounding. Not to mention that most of those jets need some heavy work to get going again. It's sad but unfortunately true.


time to train 737 Classic pilots can be quantified

time remaining of grounding is unknown (could be 2 months or never)

might as well start looking at 737 Classic and Airbus


There is no way (literally 0%) that Southwest brings back the classics. The MAX is not a big enough part of the operation to spend millions of dollars to get 20+ year old airplanes back in the sky and then go through the retirement process again.

The training costs alone make this idea a non starter
 
BEG2IAH
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:42 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 7:52 pm

I think a separate thread makes sense since the 2nd quarter MAX grounded... thread has 41 pages of 4-5 guys regurgitating the same stuff over and over again. Boeing screwed up, and badly so, but I'm actually looking forward to MAX flying again and I wouldn't mind reading about something positive, like flight tests, re-certification, whatever. The rest will be answered by accident reports.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
Aurantiaco
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:21 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 8:05 pm

What’s unfortunate is that Boeing lost all that money only for airlines to lose more money since the public’s view on the Max is essentially rock bottom.
 
n471wn
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 9:32 pm

BEG2IAH wrote:
I think a separate thread makes sense since the 2nd quarter MAX grounded... thread has 41 pages of 4-5 guys regurgitating the same stuff over and over again. Boeing screwed up, and badly so, but I'm actually looking forward to MAX flying again and I wouldn't mind reading about something positive, like flight tests, re-certification, whatever. The rest will be answered by accident reports.


I agree and hope the MODS can see that the 41 page thread is too broad and we need threads like this to separate out some of the issues. The MAX service re-entry is worthy of its own thread.
 
MR27122
Topic Author
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 3:00 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 9:37 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
afgeneral wrote:
WN732 wrote:
There isn't a snowflake let alone a snowball in hell chance of ever seeing a 737-300 flying for Southwest again. Not a single pilot at WN can even fly them anymore and the time it would take a train an even relatively small group would probably take longer than the remainder of the grounding. Not to mention that most of those jets need some heavy work to get going again. It's sad but unfortunately true.


time to train 737 Classic pilots can be quantified

time remaining of grounding is unknown (could be 2 months or never)

might as well start looking at 737 Classic and Airbus


There is no way (literally 0%) that Southwest brings back the classics. The MAX is not a big enough part of the operation to spend millions of dollars to get 20+ year old airplanes back in the sky and then go through the retirement process again.

The training costs alone make this idea a non starter


That's true, the MAX is <5% of SW's fleet @ 34 frames (I think). Yet, SW's utilization of a/c is such that, in comparison to competitors, a single frame is far more heavily utilized & thus has a greater impact upon SW scheduling when out-of-commission. This is conjecture----but I think Boeing would be the one incurring the millions in order to appease SW at "literally" all-costs. Furthermore....pause for a second & consider SW's operational predicament, they've got approx 280 MAX's on order. Every new aircraft delivery since Aug '17 have been a MAX's, and as of this moment in time, SW has no new aircraft coming into the system until....????
 
MR27122
Topic Author
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 3:00 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 9:49 pm

n471wn wrote:
BEG2IAH wrote:
I think a separate thread makes sense since the 2nd quarter MAX grounded... thread has 41 pages of 4-5 guys regurgitating the same stuff over and over again. Boeing screwed up, and badly so, but I'm actually looking forward to MAX flying again and I wouldn't mind reading about something positive, like flight tests, re-certification, whatever. The rest will be answered by accident reports.


I agree and hope the MODS can see that the 41 page thread is too broad and we need threads like this to separate out some of the issues. The MAX service re-entry is worthy of its own thread.


Thanks. I think/"hope" the MAX re-entry into service is a topic onto itself, a topic meriting a new thread, and hopefully it's sooner v. later. Albeit, I'd argue this is the most dynamically critical re-cert of an aircraft in history. Forgetting Boeing for a moment...the FAA has lost tremendous stature....airlines are suffering, & these are peak month as oil costs creep upward. Basically the "weight of the World" is on Boeing & the FAA's shoulders to get it better than "right", and that's a predicament in & of itself. Lastly, after re-entry....nobody seems to have a clue re: how long it will take for MAX passenger safety "trust equity" to return, let alone pilot-trust. I found it interesting that the re-entry "timetable" vacillates based upon what & from whom your getting info....& it coincides w/ UA announcing that they're pro-longing the grounding from an operational standpoint.
 
vulindlela744
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 3:03 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 10:11 pm

Time to think A220. The benefits of acquiring that aircraft far outweigh the costs of adding a second fleet type. SW was in Europe talking to an operator recently (confirmed by CEO). Their could only be one reason. They are seriously thinking of getting it. Just my opinion.
 
LDRA
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:01 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 10:26 pm

vulindlela744 wrote:
Time to think A220. The benefits of acquiring that aircraft far outweigh the costs of adding a second fleet type. SW was in Europe talking to an operator recently (confirmed by CEO). Their could only be one reason. They are seriously thinking of getting it. Just my opinion.

E2 is more realistic for WN. Boeing will throw a fit(stop provide support to WN 737) if WN orders A220
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8498
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 10:36 pm

n471wn wrote:
BEG2IAH wrote:
I think a separate thread makes sense since the 2nd quarter MAX grounded... thread has 41 pages of 4-5 guys regurgitating the same stuff over and over again. Boeing screwed up, and badly so, but I'm actually looking forward to MAX flying again and I wouldn't mind reading about something positive, like flight tests, re-certification, whatever. The rest will be answered by accident reports.


I agree and hope the MODS can see that the 41 page thread is too broad and we need threads like this to separate out some of the issues. The MAX service re-entry is worthy of its own thread.


It really isn't. MAX re-entry is the primary topic of the thread while accident reports are awaited.

The OP's question here is really silly, and all people with an understanding of training costs and timing, and of refurb costs and timing to return -300s to the sky, know that the idea isn't worth five seconds of discussion.
 
vulindlela744
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 3:03 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 10:38 pm

No they won’t. They have a relationship for 46-47 years. Boeing would not throw I fit. E2 does not have true intercontinental and also can’t reach Hawai’I. Boeing doesn’t own SW
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2232
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 10:39 pm

LDRA wrote:
vulindlela744 wrote:
Time to think A220. The benefits of acquiring that aircraft far outweigh the costs of adding a second fleet type. SW was in Europe talking to an operator recently (confirmed by CEO). Their could only be one reason. They are seriously thinking of getting it. Just my opinion.

E2 is more realistic for WN. Boeing will throw a fit(stop provide support to WN 737) if WN orders A220


That is a silly thing to say. Many airlines have multiple aircraft types from different companies. WN is an exception by having a huge fleet that is not only the same company but the same type. It provides them of course with enormous flexibility but if there is a problem with that type, this scenario is played out.

I don't doubt Boeing would do what it could to keep WN all Boeing. However, a 220 order by WN would do zero to endanger Boeing's support of their own product at WN.
 
bob75013
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Thu May 30, 2019 11:56 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
LDRA wrote:
vulindlela744 wrote:
Time to think A220. The benefits of acquiring that aircraft far outweigh the costs of adding a second fleet type. SW was in Europe talking to an operator recently (confirmed by CEO). Their could only be one reason. They are seriously thinking of getting it. Just my opinion.

E2 is more realistic for WN. Boeing will throw a fit(stop provide support to WN 737) if WN orders A220


That is a silly thing to say. Many airlines have multiple aircraft types from different companies. WN is an exception by having a huge fleet that is not only the same company but the same type. It provides them of course with enormous flexibility but if there is a problem with that type, this scenario is played out.

I don't doubt Boeing would do what it could to keep WN all Boeing. However, a 220 order by WN would do zero to endanger Boeing's support of their own product at WN.


Southwest ain't buying any A220s. It doesn't need smaller planes as evidenced by the deferral of MAX7s. Something bigger with more range - an NMA with folding wingtips is a winner.
 
MR27122
Topic Author
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 3:00 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 12:09 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
n471wn wrote:
BEG2IAH wrote:
I think a separate thread makes sense since the 2nd quarter MAX grounded... thread has 41 pages of 4-5 guys regurgitating the same stuff over and over again. Boeing screwed up, and badly so, but I'm actually looking forward to MAX flying again and I wouldn't mind reading about something positive, like flight tests, re-certification, whatever. The rest will be answered by accident reports.


I agree and hope the MODS can see that the 41 page thread is too broad and we need threads like this to separate out some of the issues. The MAX service re-entry is worthy of its own thread.


It really isn't. MAX re-entry is the primary topic of the thread while accident reports are awaited.

The OP's question here is really silly, and all people with an understanding of training costs and timing, and of refurb costs and timing to return -300s to the sky, know that the idea isn't worth five seconds of discussion.


Your God Complex aside....if SW wasn't incurring those costs (Boeing's tab) & SW = 737 & SW w/ the MAX grounding = next new 737 in weeks, months, year (please enlighten us on the specific date ohh Holly one?) & they will have to remain strictly on US routes until Foreign Cert & I assume/presume no new MAX's no growth or retiring aircraft. What's silly? The notion that all possible remedies wouldn't be considered due to how fantastically unique, & specifically/dramatically for SW, the MAX "situation" is. Perhaps you can bring rain to the desert to wash those sandy 733's off!
 
mwhcvt
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:01 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 12:37 am

LDRA wrote:
vulindlela744 wrote:
Time to think A220. The benefits of acquiring that aircraft far outweigh the costs of adding a second fleet type. SW was in Europe talking to an operator recently (confirmed by CEO). Their could only be one reason. They are seriously thinking of getting it. Just my opinion.

E2 is more realistic for WN. Boeing will throw a fit(stop provide support to WN 737) if WN orders A220


Are you really so delusional as to believe Boeing would stop supporting by far the biggest 737 operator in the world if they dared to order a competitors product that would never happen, you do realise Boeing will make a lot more profit from that support than they do from actually selling new aircraft to WN! It’s like your car say you go out and buy a new car for $50,000, if you went to the parts department for the dealer and instead ordered every part needed to build the car yourself you’d probably be looking at paying at least $100,000 for the same car at the end of it, the same goes for aircraft, that’s why it can so often be profitable to break a relatively young frame for parts
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 12:50 am

Ahh the old "why doesn't WN bring 737-300s out of the boneyeard" and "why doesn't WN buy A220s" tropes both in the same thread, along with people asking for more of this kind of thread too.

Aurantiaco wrote:
What’s unfortunate is that Boeing lost all that money only for airlines to lose more money since the public’s view on the Max is essentially rock bottom.

As if "the public" even knows what kind of airplane they fly on.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1101
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 12:53 am

MR27122 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
n471wn wrote:

I agree and hope the MODS can see that the 41 page thread is too broad and we need threads like this to separate out some of the issues. The MAX service re-entry is worthy of its own thread.


It really isn't. MAX re-entry is the primary topic of the thread while accident reports are awaited.

The OP's question here is really silly, and all people with an understanding of training costs and timing, and of refurb costs and timing to return -300s to the sky, know that the idea isn't worth five seconds of discussion.


Your God Complex aside....if SW wasn't incurring those costs (Boeing's tab) & SW = 737 & SW w/ the MAX grounding = next new 737 in weeks, months, year (please enlighten us on the specific date ohh Holly one?) & they will have to remain strictly on US routes until Foreign Cert & I assume/presume no new MAX's no growth or retiring aircraft. What's silly? The notion that all possible remedies wouldn't be considered due to how fantastically unique, & specifically/dramatically for SW, the MAX "situation" is. Perhaps you can bring rain to the desert to wash those sandy 733's off!


1. It's "WN" for Southwest Airlines, not "SW".

2. The ex-WN 733s have been out of service for two years and are probably not airworthy at this point, nor would it be worth the investment to make the necessary repairs to get them back in service.

3. WN pilots can't get certified on the 733s as it is because of federal regulations, which have been discussed ad nausem on this board.

In short, your entire premise is faulty and your headline to this thread is borderline misleading.

Thank you ... next.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
Aurantiaco
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:21 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 1:06 am

Revelation wrote:
Ahh the old "why doesn't WN bring 737-300s out of the boneyeard" and "why doesn't WN buy A220s" tropes both in the same thread, along with people asking for more of this kind of thread too.

Aurantiaco wrote:
What’s unfortunate is that Boeing lost all that money only for airlines to lose more money since the public’s view on the Max is essentially rock bottom.

As if "the public" even knows what kind of airplane they fly on.

I’m sure the public already has an opinion on this airplane, as:
a. The situation has been made very public.
b. People can find out what airplane they are on from their ticket to the safety card.
c. The sheer outrage this has gotten from people. On any given YouTube video about the groundings, people will say that they are never going on a MAX, or that the CEO should be arrested. I even saw some comments on how people think the CEO should ride a MAX for a year in hopes it will crash and kill him.
d. In a poll, over half of American adults said that they are unwilling to fly on a MAX. [/url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/americans-dont-want-to-fly-boeing-737-max-survey-2019-3[/url]
Pretty bold enough to assume the public is just generally ignorant.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1863
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 1:21 am

Aurantiaco wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Ahh the old "why doesn't WN bring 737-300s out of the boneyeard" and "why doesn't WN buy A220s" tropes both in the same thread, along with people asking for more of this kind of thread too.

Aurantiaco wrote:
What’s unfortunate is that Boeing lost all that money only for airlines to lose more money since the public’s view on the Max is essentially rock bottom.

As if "the public" even knows what kind of airplane they fly on.

I’m sure the public already has an opinion on this airplane, as:
a. The situation has been made very public.
b. People can find out what airplane they are on from their ticket to the safety card.
c. The sheer outrage this has gotten from people. On any given YouTube video about the groundings, people will say that they are never going on a MAX, or that the CEO should be arrested. I even saw some comments on how people think the CEO should ride a MAX for a year in hopes it will crash and kill him.
d. In a poll, over half of American adults said that they are unwilling to fly on a MAX. [/url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/americans-dont-want-to-fly-boeing-737-max-survey-2019-3[/url]
Pretty bold enough to assume the public is just generally ignorant.

Most passengers cannot even tell an A320 from a Boeing 737; so, to tell a 737NG from a 737MAX, I doubt.

b. People can find out what airplane they are on from their ticket to the safety card.

Isn't it WN or AA that has the safety cards as "737-800/737-MAX8"??? So, nope...
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1125
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 1:46 am

LDRA wrote:
vulindlela744 wrote:
Time to think A220. The benefits of acquiring that aircraft far outweigh the costs of adding a second fleet type. SW was in Europe talking to an operator recently (confirmed by CEO). Their could only be one reason. They are seriously thinking of getting it. Just my opinion.

E2 is more realistic for WN. Boeing will throw a fit(stop provide support to WN 737) if WN orders A220



Apparently, you don't know very much about business or Law?

a) "stop provide support to WN 737" - ever heard of breach of contract? You realize that Boeing doesn't support WN out of the goodness of their corporate heart, do you ? WN pays for it.
b) I'm Boeing, and I am going to take an overtly punitive stand against arguably my biggest and most loyal customer (WN) for ordering another type (due specifically to my own negligent failing)... how do you suppose every-single-other-customer in the world would see this?

Basically, you are suggesting that Boeing will completely destroy their entire commercial business (save US govt/military) in order to punish WN for ordering from elsewhere? I don't think so.
 
bob75013
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 2:14 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Aurantiaco wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Ahh the old "why doesn't WN bring 737-300s out of the boneyeard" and "why doesn't WN buy A220s" tropes both in the same thread, along with people asking for more of this kind of thread too.


As if "the public" even knows what kind of airplane they fly on.

I’m sure the public already has an opinion on this airplane, as:
a. The situation has been made very public.
b. People can find out what airplane they are on from their ticket to the safety card.
c. The sheer outrage this has gotten from people. On any given YouTube video about the groundings, people will say that they are never going on a MAX, or that the CEO should be arrested. I even saw some comments on how people think the CEO should ride a MAX for a year in hopes it will crash and kill him.
d. In a poll, over half of American adults said that they are unwilling to fly on a MAX. [/url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/americans-dont-want-to-fly-boeing-737-max-survey-2019-3[/url]
Pretty bold enough to assume the public is just generally ignorant.

Most passengers cannot even tell an A320 from a Boeing 737; so, to tell a 737NG from a 737MAX, I doubt.

b. People can find out what airplane they are on from their ticket to the safety card.

Isn't it WN or AA that has the safety cards as "737-800/737-MAX8"??? So, nope...



WN definitely has safety cards that refer to both models.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2697
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 2:35 am

vulindlela744 wrote:
Time to think A220. The benefits of acquiring that aircraft far outweigh the costs of adding a second fleet type. SW was in Europe talking to an operator recently (confirmed by CEO). Their could only be one reason. They are seriously thinking of getting it. Just my opinion.


Do you seriously think WN doesn't evaluate all Western aircraft? They've hinted at switching to the A320 for years if Boeing didn't give them what they want. It's a negotiating tactic. WN ordering an Airbus is about as likely as JetBlue ordering a Boeing. It's not ever going to happen. Both are way too deep in the pockets of Boeing and Airbus.
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 2:47 am

LDRA wrote:
.... Boeing will throw a fit(stop provide support to WN 737) if WN orders A220


Baseless sensational drama post of the day. Stop providing support? Boeing stopping support for 737 aircraft would result quickly in federal actions.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2291
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 2:52 am

In the not too distant future we will be seeing the FAA certify the changes to the -Max. One by one the American airlines will get theirs up in the air. The various other aviation safety boards will review and certify. Some will go quickly, some, like China's might let it roll on for a while.

The public after seeing some news reports will go "Oh, that's fixed. What are the Kardashians up to?"

A free wi-fi in the sky on Max planes would fill them up.
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1757
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 3:07 am

bob75013 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Aurantiaco wrote:
I’m sure the public already has an opinion on this airplane, as:
a. The situation has been made very public.
b. People can find out what airplane they are on from their ticket to the safety card.
c. The sheer outrage this has gotten from people. On any given YouTube video about the groundings, people will say that they are never going on a MAX, or that the CEO should be arrested. I even saw some comments on how people think the CEO should ride a MAX for a year in hopes it will crash and kill him.
d. In a poll, over half of American adults said that they are unwilling to fly on a MAX. [/url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/americans-dont-want-to-fly-boeing-737-max-survey-2019-3[/url]
Pretty bold enough to assume the public is just generally ignorant.

Most passengers cannot even tell an A320 from a Boeing 737; so, to tell a 737NG from a 737MAX, I doubt.

b. People can find out what airplane they are on from their ticket to the safety card.

Isn't it WN or AA that has the safety cards as "737-800/737-MAX8"??? So, nope...



WN definitely has safety cards that refer to both models.


WN does NOT have safety information cards as "737-800/737-MAX8"...
737-800 safety information cards are a darker grey with yellow lettering.
MAX8 safety information cards are lighter silver with blue lettering.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
n471wn
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 6:41 am

usflyguy wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Most passengers cannot even tell an A320 from a Boeing 737; so, to tell a 737NG from a 737MAX, I doubt.


Isn't it WN or AA that has the safety cards as "737-800/737-MAX8"??? So, nope...



WN definitely has safety cards that refer to both models.


WN does NOT have safety information cards as "737-800/737-MAX8"...
737-800 safety information cards are a darker grey with yellow lettering.
MAX8 safety information cards are lighter silver with blue lettering.


I just flew on N930WN last week and the safety cards had both types on it
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1863
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 1:21 pm

usflyguy wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Most passengers cannot even tell an A320 from a Boeing 737; so, to tell a 737NG from a 737MAX, I doubt.


Isn't it WN or AA that has the safety cards as "737-800/737-MAX8"??? So, nope...



WN definitely has safety cards that refer to both models.


WN does NOT have safety information cards as "737-800/737-MAX8"...
737-800 safety information cards are a darker grey with yellow lettering.
MAX8 safety information cards are lighter silver with blue lettering.

You're correct, the wording is not what I wrote. The WN safety card says:
737-800
737 MAX8
Source

Or even better:
737-700/-800
737 MAX8
Source

Your rebuttal? :roll:
 
737max8
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 2:31 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
usflyguy wrote:
bob75013 wrote:


WN definitely has safety cards that refer to both models.


WN does NOT have safety information cards as "737-800/737-MAX8"...
737-800 safety information cards are a darker grey with yellow lettering.
MAX8 safety information cards are lighter silver with blue lettering.

You're correct, the wording is not what I wrote. The WN safety card says:
737-800
737 MAX8
Source

Or even better:
737-700/-800
737 MAX8
Source

Your rebuttal? :roll:


The safety cards have been changed out. They now ONLY say 737-800 on one (grey) and 737-700 on the other (red).

There is no WN safety card flying around with the MAX on it currently.

n471wn wrote:
usflyguy wrote:
bob75013 wrote:


WN definitely has safety cards that refer to both models.


WN does NOT have safety information cards as "737-800/737-MAX8"...
737-800 safety information cards are a darker grey with yellow lettering.
MAX8 safety information cards are lighter silver with blue lettering.


I just flew on N930WN last week and the safety cards had both types on it


You flew on a -700, so the safety card should have only said 737-700. The 700 and 800/MAX8 weren't on the same card.

And as I said above, the new cards are 737-700 only and 737-800 only. No MAX any longer. I assume they will just get their own safety card when they return to service.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
737max8
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 2:35 pm

Pretty sure all of the 737-300s have been moved on...scrap, sale, lease return, etc. so this is a moot point before you even consider things like training, cost, and a segmented fleet.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 3:00 pm

Aurantiaco wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Ahh the old "why doesn't WN bring 737-300s out of the boneyeard" and "why doesn't WN buy A220s" tropes both in the same thread, along with people asking for more of this kind of thread too.

Aurantiaco wrote:
What’s unfortunate is that Boeing lost all that money only for airlines to lose more money since the public’s view on the Max is essentially rock bottom.

As if "the public" even knows what kind of airplane they fly on.

I’m sure the public already has an opinion on this airplane, as:
a. The situation has been made very public.
b. People can find out what airplane they are on from their ticket to the safety card.
c. The sheer outrage this has gotten from people. On any given YouTube video about the groundings, people will say that they are never going on a MAX, or that the CEO should be arrested. I even saw some comments on how people think the CEO should ride a MAX for a year in hopes it will crash and kill him.
d. In a poll, over half of American adults said that they are unwilling to fly on a MAX. [/url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/americans-dont-want-to-fly-boeing-737-max-survey-2019-3[/url]
Pretty bold enough to assume the public is just generally ignorant.

None of this refutes the notion that "the public" even knows what kind of airplane they fly on.

They shop on price and connections and airplane type has almost no influence on "the public".

Sure, they've heard scare mongering stories about MAX but by the time it flies again they'll hear about how their friendly local aviation regulator has certified it safe to fly.

Then it will be back to comparing prices for their next business trip to Chicago or their boozy weekend in Ibiza.

This talk of checking safety cards is IMO silly.

By that time they read the card the plane has been approved for flight, the person's bum is in the seat and their bags are in the hold.

Do you really expect them to say OMG this is a MAX instead of NG get me the bleep out of here?

If so, do you expect enough will do so to matter?

I warned a bunch of friends to avoid a certain low cost when they were having lots of issues with their ageing aircraft and dodgy maintenance practices.

Did they?

Nope, the price was the lowest and their miserly instincts overwhelmed any concern over their own safety and that of family members.

It won't be different in any meaningful way this time.

The media will get a few interviews with a few people saying how scared they are, but then the innate frugality bred in to the public at large will hold sway.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
StrandedAtMKG
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:51 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 3:06 pm

Keith2004 wrote:
In before this thread is merged with the 100 pager lol


Honestly this thread is just further proof that the A.net mods' overzealous policy of merging everything into 500-page superthreads is hurting the site and making it impossible to find things. Maybe this subject has been discussed in the MAX superthread, but it's buried 50 pages deep in a thread that's mostly just people arguing.
 
chrisair
Posts: 2163
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: 737 MAX Service Re-Entry & question.....

Fri May 31, 2019 3:32 pm

737max8 wrote:
The safety cards have been changed out. They now ONLY say 737-800 on one (grey) and 737-700 on the other (red).

There is no WN safety card flying around with the MAX on it currently.



I noticed that last week. The 737-700 has had its own card for a while, and the 737-800 one is new, like within a few weeks. I remember hearing a few comments from pax who were concerned that the safety card said 737-MAX on it, even though we were on a 737-800.

Date on the 737-800 card was 4/2019.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos