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Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:08 pm
by JAmie2k9
Remember its Government legislation preventing separation so of course DAA have not been asked.

Checking passports has also benefited authorities in the UK and I cannot see it changing soon. I think the whole delay thing has been made much bigger than it is for the majority of people.

DAA might be pressured into speeding up expanding the halls but thats it.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:30 pm
by OA260
Aer Lingus passenger numbers dip 0.3% in May

The number of passengers carried by Aer Lingus dipped by 0.3% in May, new figures from its parent group IAG show today.

Aer Lingus flew a total of 1.081 million passengers in May, down from the figure of 1.084 million the same time last year.

But the revenue it generated from each passenger rose by 3.9% and its passenger load factor - how many seats it fills on each flight - increased to 80.4% from 79.9% the same time last year.

The airline's passenger numbers so far this year are up 5.7% to 4.272 million from 4.042 million the same time last year, IAG added.

www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0610/1054 ... r-numbers/

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:14 pm
by eirflot
Sorry JAmie2k9, what government legislation is stopping CTA separation at DUB?
If there was money in it for the DAA, the CTA lanes would gave been organised years ago!
The immigration queues at DUB are shameful and in the last 15 yeras of travel through DUB I have NEVER seen all the immigration booths in operation at the same time. In fact the usual comment is why go to the expense of putting up all the booths when they are rarely, if ever, all used

The last time there were serious queues it was because the Gardai were peeved and on a go slow - civil servants were to be used and the Gardai returned to active duty. All those lovely allowances to be lost!!

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:09 am
by LH982
eirflot wrote:
Sorry JAmie2k9, what government legislation is stopping CTA separation at DUB?
If there was money in it for the DAA, the CTA lanes would gave been organised years ago!
The immigration queues at DUB are shameful and in the last 15 yeras of travel through DUB I have NEVER seen all the immigration booths in operation at the same time. In fact the usual comment is why go to the expense of putting up all the booths when they are rarely, if ever, all used

The last time there were serious queues it was because the Gardai were peeved and on a go slow - civil servants were to be used and the Gardai returned to active duty. All those lovely allowances to be lost!!


I have to agree that I have never seen the booths fully staffed.

I also agree that CTA would be introduced tomorrow if the DAA treated it with the same priority as shopping. We know it's not easy to do with the current terminal layout, but let's face it, the main reason it hasn't been done is that there's no benefit for the DAA.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:02 am
by EI121
OA260 wrote:
Aer Lingus passenger numbers dip 0.3% in May

The number of passengers carried by Aer Lingus dipped by 0.3% in May, new figures from its parent group IAG show today.

Aer Lingus flew a total of 1.081 million passengers in May, down from the figure of 1.084 million the same time last year.

But the revenue it generated from each passenger rose by 3.9% and its passenger load factor - how many seats it fills on each flight - increased to 80.4% from 79.9% the same time last year.

The airline's passenger numbers so far this year are up 5.7% to 4.272 million from 4.042 million the same time last year, IAG added.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/06 ... r-numbers/


I say the timing of Easter didn't help EI this year.

Does anyone know how their PHL and SEA routes are doing?

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:05 am
by OA260
LH982 wrote:
I also agree that CTA would be introduced tomorrow if the DAA treated it with the same priority as shopping. We know it's not easy to do with the current terminal layout, but let's face it, the main reason it hasn't been done is that there's no benefit for the DAA.


Correct. I have seen no evidence that its anything to do with government legislation so unless someone has a link to a reliable source we must sweep that aside as speculation.

The British seem to honour the CTA agreement more than the Irish and Heathrow for instance spent a lot of time making sure it worked. T5 even spent millions adding a special ROI CTA arrivals facility just because BA started DUB.

Considering the reliance of the ROI on UK routes still and the volumes of passengers that make up DUB traffic having a dedicated arrivals for CTA would substantially ease the lines for non CTA arrivals and solve the issue. Its just a case of doing things half assed which sadly is very much in the culture here when it comes to transport and other things.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:52 am
by wexfordflyer
tonystan wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:
OA260 wrote:

Can't see it changing at DUB anytime in the near future. The time to have done this would have been quite a while ago now.


I feel like it could be relatively simple to implement. As someone who worked in the airport in the late 90s and early 00’s I remember the old system quite well, especially pier B where arriving passengers from the UK where channeled away from passport checks.

I think at T1 they could just place all CTA arrivals into the 200s/A gates and create a bypass. Is there a requirement for all CTA arrivals to be segregated from departure area? Of not this could be an avenue for T2 also.

I feel the ability is there but the will to do it not so much!


I think putting all CTA arrivals into 200s would drastically impact their flexibility around their stand planning. Stand space is already at a premium and at capacity. And then add to that that airlines will have their own preferences, such as FR at Pier 1. The airlines don't tend to really care about the arriving passenger journey, once they can get their aircraft in and out on time and where they want them.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:04 am
by JAmie2k9
eirflot wrote:
Sorry JAmie2k9, what government legislation is stopping CTA separation at DUB?
If there was money in it for the DAA, the CTA lanes would gave been organised years ago!
The immigration queues at DUB are shameful and in the last 15 yeras of travel through DUB I have NEVER seen all the immigration booths in operation at the same time. In fact the usual comment is why go to the expense of putting up all the booths when they are rarely, if ever, all used

The last time there were serious queues it was because the Gardai were peeved and on a go slow - civil servants were to be used and the Gardai returned to active duty. All those lovely allowances to be lost!!


In 1997 legalisation was updated to allow inspection ID for CTA flights and refuse entry to certain foreign nationals. While it does not apply to Irish/UK nationals they suffer as a result because separation both groups isn't really possible. I will look for the Act and post.

Now there is a case with API etc that this area could be looked at again.

Queues are not bad and have improved a lot in recent years despite growing passenger numbers.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:07 am
by JAmie2k9
OA260 wrote:
LH982 wrote:
I also agree that CTA would be introduced tomorrow if the DAA treated it with the same priority as shopping. We know it's not easy to do with the current terminal layout, but let's face it, the main reason it hasn't been done is that there's no benefit for the DAA.


Correct. I have seen no evidence that its anything to do with government legislation so unless someone has a link to a reliable source we must sweep that aside as speculation.

The British seem to honour the CTA agreement more than the Irish and Heathrow for instance spent a lot of time making sure it worked. T5 even spent millions adding a special ROI CTA arrivals facility just because BA started DUB.

Considering the reliance of the ROI on UK routes still and the volumes of passengers that make up DUB traffic having a dedicated arrivals for CTA would substantially ease the lines for non CTA arrivals and solve the issue. Its just a case of doing things half assed which sadly is very much in the culture here when it comes to transport and other things.


So BA Belfast was never a factor in T5.

The British honour it because they have no choice because it would be viewed as splitting the union by certain people if domestic checks were introduced for NI and not Scotland.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:40 am
by nrm2004
Belfast is UK domestic.

In Heathrow Ireland arrivals bypass immigration but baggage is still received in the international arrivals baggage all and passengers then exit through customs!

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:34 am
by tonystan
JAmie2k9 wrote:
Remember its Government legislation preventing separation so of course DAA have not been asked.

Checking passports has also benefited authorities in the UK and I cannot see it changing soon. I think the whole delay thing has been made much bigger than it is for the majority of people.

DAA might be pressured into speeding up expanding the halls but thats it.


Jamie, I can’t remember the last time I entered the UK from Ireland and had my passport checked. And I commute twice weekly to LHR sometimes using LGW & LCY and also frequent MAN, LBA, EDI and BHX.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:36 am
by Ticketyboo
eicvd wrote:
tonystan wrote:
eicvd wrote:

Thanks for the feedback.


I’ll add to that. I use the DAA lounge in T1 as I’m BA Gold. It’s equally as bad although it has had a few improvements to furniture in recent months. Again you can’t see anything out the windows, it’s regularly packed, the food area is at the opposite end of the lounge from the bar so lots of to-ing and fro-ing and the staff are not the most proactive. It really is a bit of an embarrassment if I’m honest.


Looks like I’m better off going to the chocolate lounge & making the most of the views then. Thanks for your opinion Tonystan.


Indeed you are. The lounge situation in Dublin is only trumped by the farce that is the E-Gate white elephant. I use Platinum Services when I'm flying with Emirates which adds a bit to ticket cost but a nicer experience. When EK called me recently I asked them about having a proper lounge in stead of their current practice of using the DAA T2 Lounge and they confirmed that there was no space being made available to them and that the Etihad lounge would likely be re-purposed. The EI Lounge is frankly laughable as a flag-carrier home base Lounge, it's so sub-standard with some of the most inattentive staff imaginable.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:45 am
by tonystan
JAmie2k9 wrote:

So BA Belfast was never a factor in T5.

The British honour it because they have no choice because it would be viewed as splitting the union by certain people if domestic checks were introduced for NI and not Scotland.


Belfast is as I’m sure you are aware a UK Domestic flight and therefore uses the domestic stands (A1-A7) at T5 and deposits it’s customers into the non customs baggage hall.

The Dublin flights when they were moved to T5 about 5 years or so ago had a special corridor created (it was previously staff access to offices) from gate A23 at the other side of the A terminal. This corridor bypasses passport control (there are not even any passport booths) and deposits it’s passengers directly into the main customs controlled baggage hall where passengers can exit using the blue channel. This is in full compliance of the CTA agreement between the two nations. The gate can be used by all non-domestic arrivals however only the DUB originating passengers are directed down the special corridor.

Similar situation at T2 where EI flights inbound customers are directed straight into the baggage hall from the jetty. A lot of other airports in the UK tend to bus passengers off their Irish flights directly into the baggage halls in order to bypass passport control.

As for the comment regarding the 1997 policy change. I worked in DUB between 1999 and 2002 and the whole time I worked there dealing directly with such arrivals UK originating customers had their own channels to bypass general passpprt control except at pier A where all they had to do was wave their boarding pass at a special passport booth which said “UK-CTA flights” or something along those lines!

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:27 am
by JAmie2k9
tonystan wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
Remember its Government legislation preventing separation so of course DAA have not been asked.

Checking passports has also benefited authorities in the UK and I cannot see it changing soon. I think the whole delay thing has been made much bigger than it is for the majority of people.

DAA might be pressured into speeding up expanding the halls but thats it.


Jamie, I can’t remember the last time I entered the UK from Ireland and had my passport checked. And I commute twice weekly to LHR sometimes using LGW & LCY and also frequent MAN, LBA, EDI and BHX.


Border control have increased spot checks of CTA however my point about UK benefiting was by passport checks in Dublin and not checks upon arriving in UK.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:47 am
by tonystan
JAmie2k9 wrote:
tonystan wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
Remember its Government legislation preventing separation so of course DAA have not been asked.

Checking passports has also benefited authorities in the UK and I cannot see it changing soon. I think the whole delay thing has been made much bigger than it is for the majority of people.

DAA might be pressured into speeding up expanding the halls but thats it.


Jamie, I can’t remember the last time I entered the UK from Ireland and had my passport checked. And I commute twice weekly to LHR sometimes using LGW & LCY and also frequent MAN, LBA, EDI and BHX.


Border control have increased spot checks of CTA however my point about UK benefiting was by passport checks in Dublin and not checks upon arriving in UK.


I’m not sure I understand your point but if I do, under the CTA agreement it is up to the first point of entry (within the CTA) to do the checks and ensure the person entering the CTA is compliant with the requirements of their intended destination. So when someone intending to travel to Ireland is in transit through the UK they will be checked there and vice versa! Hence why BA up until a few weeks ago always included the Republic of Ireland in the PA for UK landing cards.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:48 am
by OA260
tonystan wrote:

The Dublin flights when they were moved to T5 about 5 years or so ago had a special corridor created (it was previously staff access to offices) from gate A23 at the other side of the A terminal. This corridor bypasses passport control (there are not even any passport booths) and deposits it’s passengers directly into the main customs controlled baggage hall where passengers can exit using the blue channel. This is in full compliance of the CTA agreement between the two nations. The gate can be used by all non-domestic arrivals however only the DUB originating passengers are directed down the special corridor.

Similar situation at T2 where EI flights inbound customers are directed straight into the baggage hall from the jetty. A lot of other airports in the UK tend to bus passengers off their Irish flights directly into the baggage halls in order to bypass passport control.




100% correct. Glad someone else knows the facts. I was once on a flight sitting next to someone who was working on that project at the time in T5. It was indeed especially for ROI flights.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:06 pm
by JAmie2k9
tonystan wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:

So BA Belfast was never a factor in T5.

The British honour it because they have no choice because it would be viewed as splitting the union by certain people if domestic checks were introduced for NI and not Scotland.


Belfast is as I’m sure you are aware a UK Domestic flight and therefore uses the domestic stands (A1-A7) at T5 and deposits it’s customers into the non customs baggage hall.

The Dublin flights when they were moved to T5 about 5 years or so ago had a special corridor created (it was previously staff access to offices) from gate A23 at the other side of the A terminal. This corridor bypasses passport control (there are not even any passport booths) and deposits it’s passengers directly into the main customs controlled baggage hall where passengers can exit using the blue channel. This is in full compliance of the CTA agreement between the two nations. The gate can be used by all non-domestic arrivals however only the DUB originating passengers are directed down the special corridor.

Similar situation at T2 where EI flights inbound customers are directed straight into the baggage hall from the jetty. A lot of other airports in the UK tend to bus passengers off their Irish flights directly into the baggage halls in order to bypass passport control.

As for the comment regarding the 1997 policy change. I worked in DUB between 1999 and 2002 and the whole time I worked there dealing directly with such arrivals UK originating customers had their own channels to bypass general passpprt control except at pier A where all they had to do was wave their boarding pass at a special passport booth which said “UK-CTA flights” or something along those lines!


DAA would have applied it to all new infrastructure since and consulted with Gov and Immigration about it. They are saving time and money this way. CTA worked well until early 2000s.

Today using 200/300 gates couldn't cope wirh demand without busing. Busing would then be as long as having an actual check done. Not forgetting a major pushback from Ryanair/Aer Lingus.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:47 pm
by eirflot
So why not use one of the unused booths at T1 and T2 and name them CTA. The DAA could even staff them to check boarding passes
Im not sure i see why there appears to be a problem?
Or is that thinking too simply

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:50 pm
by eirflot
Won't it all have to be resolved when Brexit happens?

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:50 pm
by tonystan
JAmie2k9 wrote:
tonystan wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:

So BA Belfast was never a factor in T5.

The British honour it because they have no choice because it would be viewed as splitting the union by certain people if domestic checks were introduced for NI and not Scotland.


Belfast is as I’m sure you are aware a UK Domestic flight and therefore uses the domestic stands (A1-A7) at T5 and deposits it’s customers into the non customs baggage hall.

The Dublin flights when they were moved to T5 about 5 years or so ago had a special corridor created (it was previously staff access to offices) from gate A23 at the other side of the A terminal. This corridor bypasses passport control (there are not even any passport booths) and deposits it’s passengers directly into the main customs controlled baggage hall where passengers can exit using the blue channel. This is in full compliance of the CTA agreement between the two nations. The gate can be used by all non-domestic arrivals however only the DUB originating passengers are directed down the special corridor.

Similar situation at T2 where EI flights inbound customers are directed straight into the baggage hall from the jetty. A lot of other airports in the UK tend to bus passengers off their Irish flights directly into the baggage halls in order to bypass passport control.

As for the comment regarding the 1997 policy change. I worked in DUB between 1999 and 2002 and the whole time I worked there dealing directly with such arrivals UK originating customers had their own channels to bypass general passpprt control except at pier A where all they had to do was wave their boarding pass at a special passport booth which said “UK-CTA flights” or something along those lines!


DAA would have applied it to all new infrastructure since and consulted with Gov and Immigration about it. They are saving time and money this way. CTA worked well until early 2000s.

Today using 200/300 gates couldn't cope wirh demand without busing. Busing would then be as long as having an actual check done. Not forgetting a major pushback from Ryanair/Aer Lingus.


I hear you but...as is clear from a number of occasions in the media over the past year or so and what I have regularly experienced myself even more, not segregating CTA inbounds is not working anymore. Heck even even Irish domestic passengers are forced to pass through passport control, is there any other country in the world where this happens?

With the fast paced expansion taking place at DUB (and indeed other Irish airports) now is the time for the DAA to pull the thumb out and revisit this. CTA arrivals make up a significant chunk of DUB arrivals and to be able to cut that number from the queues at border control can only be a positive. I can think of a number of ways this could be actioned at minimal cost and without bussing for both 200 and 300 gates but as Iv said previously the will power doesn’t seem to be there.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:54 pm
by tonystan
eirflot wrote:
Won't it all have to be resolved when Brexit happens?


Nope. The CTA was in place long before the UK entered the EU (it’s the primary reason we never went into shengen) and it will remain in force after Brexit also. Only difference being passengers will be expected to clear through the Red/green customs channels and not the Blue unless a deal is struck.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:05 pm
by wexfordflyer
eirflot wrote:
So why not use one of the unused booths at T1 and T2 and name them CTA. The DAA could even staff them to check boarding passes
Im not sure i see why there appears to be a problem?
Or is that thinking too simply


Too simply, I'm afraid. For a number of reasons. Firstly, in theory there are no unused booths. While INIS don't always have them fully staffed (as the case the bank holiday weekend), they are available to be fully staffed and indeed sometimes are. When they are fully staffed you do see a drastic reduction in queue times.
Secondly, if passengers were all in the same immigration hall then CTA and non-CTA would be mixing. CTA passengers would then become contaminated and could swap boarding cards etc. A passenger could come from a non-CTA country, meet a CTA in the arrivals hall, swap boarding cards and just walk on through illegally.
Thirdly, with the recent regulator determination, CAR is putting serious pressure on the DAA to become more efficient and reduce staffing levels. Any solution that requires more staff is likely to be challenging over the coming months and years.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:05 pm
by BrianDromey
tonystan wrote:
I’m not sure I understand your point but if I do, under the CTA agreement it is up to the first point of entry (within the CTA) to do the checks and ensure the person entering the CTA is compliant with the requirements of their intended destination. So when someone intending to travel to Ireland is in transit through the UK they will be checked there and vice versa! Hence why BA up until a few weeks ago always included the Republic of Ireland in the PA for UK landing cards.


The CTA only applies to Irish and UK citizens, the trouble is identifying who is a CTA citizen and who isn't. Without a document or stored biometric information, I cant think of a way to do this. I guess CTA arrivals could be directed down different channels/bussed to specific areas where CTA nationals could identify themselves and 'skip' the queue, possibly even within the existing immigration hall.

I agree that the asymmetry of the checks is confusing, as the two governments have taken different approaches to identifying such nationals - indeed the UK government has proposed several times to have arrival procedures similar to RoI, but these have been objected to by Unionists. The irony about border control cannot be lost!

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:08 pm
by OA260
Some 80,000 fly between Dublin and Hong Kong
Large number of hi-tech industries at either end contributes to Cathay Pacific passenger total

About 80,000 people flew between Dublin and Hong Kong on the service that Cathay Pacific launched between the two cities a year ago, according to Edward Fotheringham, the carrier’s regional head of marketing and sales Europe.

Cathay began flying four times a week from Dublin to Hong Kong, the first direct service connecting the Republic with China, this month last year.

Mr Fotheringham said this week that the route had performed “very encouragingly” since.

“We’ve had about 80,000 passengers on the route, which is encouraging, about two million kilos of Irish goods being sent out to the Far East, mainly things like seafood and pharma goods.”

www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-a ... 0?mode=amp

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:47 pm
by ELBOB
Corsair 747 due in to Dublin on Sunday 16 June

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:51 pm
by Galwayman
BrianDromey wrote:
tonystan wrote:
I’m not sure I understand your point but if I do, under the CTA agreement it is up to the first point of entry (within the CTA) to do the checks and ensure the person entering the CTA is compliant with the requirements of their intended destination. So when someone intending to travel to Ireland is in transit through the UK they will be checked there and vice versa! Hence why BA up until a few weeks ago always included the Republic of Ireland in the PA for UK landing cards.


The CTA only applies to Irish and UK citizens, the trouble is identifying who is a CTA citizen and who isn't. Without a document or stored biometric information, I cant think of a way to do this. I guess CTA arrivals could be directed down different channels/bussed to specific areas where CTA nationals could identify themselves and 'skip' the queue, possibly even within the existing immigration hall.

I agree that the asymmetry of the checks is confusing, as the two governments have taken different approaches to identifying such nationals - indeed the UK government has proposed several times to have arrival procedures similar to RoI, but these have been objected to by Unionists. The irony about border control cannot be lost!


Are you sure it only applies to U.K. and Irish citizens ?? Because At Stansted they bus you past immigration completely and you arrive beautifully in the baggage hall and it’s absolutely fantastic . Wish that would happen at Irish airports

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:27 pm
by VFRonTop
Galwayman wrote:
Are you sure it only applies to U.K. and Irish citizens ?? Because At Stansted they bus you past immigration completely and you arrive beautifully in the baggage hall and it’s absolutely fantastic . Wish that would happen at Irish airports


Under the letter of the CTA (not the spirit, in my opinion) only UK and Irish citizens are not subjected to passport/ID checks, The Irish government has chosen to make passengers prove they are entitled to travel document free in the CTA by (you guessed it) requesting to see documentation that prove they are Irish/UK citizens, therefore negating the purpose of the CTA in the first place.

The UK treats all CTA flights as domestic in relation to immigration, but not security screening (i.e. Irish originating passengers are required to be re-screened if transiting through the UK)

The UK gets comfort through to the British-Irish visa scheme and broadly aligned visa policies.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:37 pm
by VFRonTop
tonystan wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
tonystan wrote:

CTA arrivals make up a significant chunk of DUB arrivals and to be able to cut that number from the queues at border control can only be a positive...


13m passengers flew between the UK and Ireland in 2018, 10m of those came through Dublin Airport. That's 30% of all passengers coming though the airport.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:58 pm
by eirflot
I have beard a lot of 'civil service' type reasons why CTA is not in operation at Irish Airports! It is beyond stupid that those travelling from irish airports must pass through passport control in Ireland! And of course Brexit will have an effect - currently non EU passengers go through 'other' booths. It will be fun watching UK passengers joining those from the US, Canada and other nations!!!

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:07 pm
by ClassicLover
VFRonTop wrote:
The UK treats all CTA flights as domestic in relation to immigration, but not security screening (i.e. Irish originating passengers are required to be re-screened if transiting through the UK)

The UK gets comfort through to the British-Irish visa scheme and broadly aligned visa policies.


However, is the fact that Republic of Ireland checks all Passports inbound, plus the fact that the border is only with the UK land wise, a factor here? The UK can be pretty much guaranteed the entire plane load of passengers arriving in the UK from Dublin/Shannon/Cork/Knock is clean due to the Irish checking everyone arriving into their country.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:46 pm
by eirflot
Your logic would suggest that as passports are checked leaving the UK, then passangers arriving in Ireland would also be 'clean'!!
However that is not how it happens

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:58 pm
by al2637
Isn't the easy solution to mix arriving CTA passengers with departing passengers, and allow them to exit somehow that way? Ideally everyone would be segregated, but many airports in Euope allow departing and arriving passengers to mix (e.g. AMS). Surley CTA airports could be considered "trusted" to have high enough security levels that arriving and departing PAX could be mixed?

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:04 pm
by liffy1a
https://youtu.be/_GeLUpASCAw

Nice send off at DUB to a retiring air traffic controller.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:55 pm
by EI564
eirflot wrote:
And of course Brexit will have an effect - currently non EU passengers go through 'other' booths. It will be fun watching UK passengers joining those from the US, Canada and other nations!!!

I doubt that will happen.

The CTA will exist post-Brexit. The most likely solution, I would have thought, would be that EU booths will eventually be allowed to handle EU and UK passengers.

Anyhow, there seems to be 2 problems at the moment. Passengers flying from the UK have to go through Immigration. Despite this been known about, Immigration is failing to staff the booths properly (and the E-Gates seem to be shut at busy times). Fixing the rosters sounds like a much quicker solution (than building new routes for CTA passengers) but perhaps not.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:21 pm
by tonystan
BrianDromey wrote:
tonystan wrote:
I’m not sure I understand your point but if I do, under the CTA agreement it is up to the first point of entry (within the CTA) to do the checks and ensure the person entering the CTA is compliant with the requirements of their intended destination. So when someone intending to travel to Ireland is in transit through the UK they will be checked there and vice versa! Hence why BA up until a few weeks ago always included the Republic of Ireland in the PA for UK landing cards.


The CTA only applies to Irish and UK citizens, the trouble is identifying who is a CTA citizen and who isn't. Without a document or stored biometric information, I cant think of a way to do this. I guess CTA arrivals could be directed down different channels/bussed to specific areas where CTA nationals could identify themselves and 'skip' the queue, possibly even within the existing immigration

I agree that the asymmetry of the checks is confusing, as the two governments have taken different approaches to identifying such nationals - indeed the UK government has proposed several times to have arrival procedures similar to RoI, but these have been objected to by Unionists. The irony about border control cannot be lost!


Well no not really as a passport is not required for travel between Ireland and the UK, be it by plane, Ferry or across the land boarder. When was the last time any passport check existed crossing into Newry?

Now there is a requirement written into the terms of the CTA that all those crossing the border must be able to provide proof of nationality and status upon request but that is all. Further action can be taken if the individual in question is not where they should be.

The airlines and ferry companies have simply stipulated in latter years that an official form of ID is required and most such as Ryanair have simply stated passport for the sake of standardizing. However drivers licenses and Garda IDs are also accepted by some, but no need to prove nationality!

And as for the unionists....why would they have any sway for those with a Republic of Ireland passport? Surely those in NI who are all treated as domestic passengers wouldn’t be concerned with a passport check on a flight from the Republic to the UK? It’s outside of their remit!

Heck I can remember working check-in in and around the turn of the millennia and we used to get passengers checkin in under fake names just for the heck of it!

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:45 pm
by eirflot
We seem to have a mix of apples, oranges and the odd banana here. Fact is CTA should be in operation at irish airports but those running them couldn't be ar---! Brexit is not yet a red herring but were CTA in ooeration, then no problem would exist
Now if we could just convince the DAA that CTA is a retail opportunity.......!!!!

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:32 am
by OA260
eirflot wrote:
Now if we could just convince the DAA that CTA is a retail opportunity.......!!!!


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: CTA arrivals Duty Free after Brexit ;)

---


Woman speaks out after paying 'shameful' amount for Starbucks coffee at Dublin Airport

She was charged for add-ons - which are usually free
A woman paid a whopping price after a coffee shop in Dublin Airport knocked a few extra quid onto the bill for something that's generally free in their other stores.

Jovi Mullen said she paid over €5 for her latte after Starbucks added a bit extra on for soy milk.

The Waterford woman, who is lactose-intolerant, was charged a total of €5.15 for her the medium beverage, which included add-on prices for vanilla syrup (60c) and soy milk (60c), Dublin Live reports.

And to add insult, they got her name wrong as well...

http://www.irishmirror.ie/whats-on/food ... e-16504848


Gotta love this place for milking people ( pardon the pun ) , they would give the Spanish and Italians a run for their money !!

---

More E gate fears !!!

Holiday chaos fears rise over unmanned e-gates at Dublin Airport
The e-gates were put in place to speed up queues at passport control and avoid long waits however they are often closed

Fears are high among holiday goers at Dublin Airport as many are complaining over the new e-gates which are regularly not being manned.

There was recent chaos at passport control at the airport, with some Twitter users saying they queued for 45 minutes on the June bank holiday Monday.

And this has brought light to the supervision of e-gates, and concern is rising over the possibility of it happening again.

The e-gates were put in place to speed up queues at passport control and avoid long waits, but they are often closed.


Image


www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/dubl ... s-16498940

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:56 am
by Eagleboy
wexfordflyer wrote:
...........
The junior minister would do well to do his research and understand how the process works.Dublin Airport does not staff immigration, that's a job for INIS and the Dept of Justice. Comments like this annoy me, especially from political figures who should know better.

I think your last point is an oxymoron. Politicans are generally not subject experts.

EI121 wrote:
.....Does anyone know how their PHL and SEA routes are doing?

Not sure on PHL. But EI stated that SEA was a success bookingwise right fro the first flight.



MSN for 4th EI A321LR (EI-LRD) is 9187.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:23 pm
by wexfordflyer
Eagleboy wrote:
wexfordflyer wrote:
...........
The junior minister would do well to do his research and understand how the process works.Dublin Airport does not staff immigration, that's a job for INIS and the Dept of Justice. Comments like this annoy me, especially from political figures who should know better.

I think your last point is an oxymoron. Politicans are generally not subject experts.



MSN for 4th EI A321LR (EI-LRD) is 9187.


No, it's not. They are not generally subject experts. But they should know better than to publicly comment with incorrect information. So they consult the experts to ensure they have their information correct. So they should know better.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:32 pm
by eirflot
Have we a alternate fact planet here? What experts ate ypu talking about? The civil service? God bless us all what a sense of humour you have!

If we did have experts, or even anyone who gave a toss, then we would not have queues at the airport, CTA would be in operation and the E-gates would function
Its not experts we need just people with a few little grey cells!!!!

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:43 pm
by shamrock350
Norwegian will not resume flights from Cork or Shannon this year

Low-cost airline Norwegian will offer no further flights from Cork or Shannon airports this year, a spokesperson has confirmed.

"Due to the continued grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX by the European aviation authorities, our flights to and from Cork and Shannon will be re-routed via Dublin for the remainder of the summer season," the airline said in a statement.

"Cork is a seasonal route, while the reduced availability of aircraft has led to the removal of Shannon services this winter," it added.

https://m.independent.ie/life/travel/tr ... 12263.html

Hardly surprising. I’m sure they’ll be back next year but I wouldn’t blame them if they weren’t.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:12 pm
by wexfordflyer
eirflot wrote:
Have we a alternate fact planet here? What experts ate ypu talking about? The civil service? God bless us all what a sense of humour you have!

If we did have experts, or even anyone who gave a toss, then we would not have queues at the airport, CTA would be in operation and the E-gates would function
Its not experts we need just people with a few little grey cells!!!!


I'm not sure what your point is, other than government bashing, but the junior minister most definitely should have known better than to comment in the way he did.

And in any case, the public deflecting of responsibilities between the daa and Dept of Justice doesn't help matters either.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:36 pm
by eirflot
The DAA run the airport so no matter what goes on there, they are ultimately responsible and accountable! I know strange words for an Irish institution! If there is a problem with any service provided to the DAA, then the DAA needs to resolve!
I know a very old fashioned idea!
You have confused government and the civil service! The first is always fleeting, the latter permanent! I was bashing your 'experts',!

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:32 pm
by EI564
eirflot wrote:
The DAA run the airport so no matter what goes on there, they are ultimately responsible and accountable! I know strange words for an Irish institution! If there is a problem with any service provided to the DAA, then the DAA needs to resolve!

Normally you would be right. Ultimately, it is the DAA's issue.

But to resolve this issue, DAA has to get the government to staff Immigration correctly. Which makes it a bit ridiculous for a Junior Minister to blame the DAA. The Junior Minister is effectively complaining that the DAA can't convince another government minister to staff Immigration correctly...

The CTA is an interesting question though. Would the airilnes support the building of new corridors for arriving passengers from the UK? Probably not. Without airline support, the regulator normally doesn't approve building infrastructure.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:14 pm
by eirflot
Excuse my ignorance! I thought CTA was government policy and not airline dependant!
Sometimes it amazes me how little accountability and responsability exists in the Ireland of today
Enough said I think

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:34 pm
by tonystan
EI564 wrote:
Would the airilnes support the building of new corridors for arriving passengers from the UK? Probably not. Without airline support, the regulator normally doesn't approve building infrastructure.


Pardon me....but WHY exactly would the airlines not support such a move? Why would they not be for something which would improve their customer scores? Why would the airlines even have that much of a say regarding infrastructure which is actually about border control as opposed to customer amenities?

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:19 pm
by EI564
tonystan wrote:
Pardon me....but WHY exactly would the airlines not support such a move? Why would they not be for something which would improve their customer scores? Why would the airlines even have that much of a say regarding infrastructure which is actually about border control as opposed to customer amenities?

The airlines do have to pay for it. Or the passengers have to. Ultimately.

So yes, I can see why they would not support the move. If it costs €10m or €20m to fix (i've no idea but its unlikely to be a simple thing), then the airlines will cover the cost via increased airport charges.

They probably will say that its cheaper to staff Immigration properly.

Maybe the government could order the DAA/regulator to build a CTA facility but no government minister has commented on that. They are focusing on the staffing issue.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:40 pm
by eirflot
We are at it again!
Apples, oranges and bananas - staffing issues have nothing to do with CTA.
And why would airlines pay additional for a service that already exists, all be it screwed up - immigration is immigration, no matter the lane!

:banghead:
:white:

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:50 am
by wexfordflyer
tonystan wrote:
EI564 wrote:
Would the airilnes support the building of new corridors for arriving passengers from the UK? Probably not. Without airline support, the regulator normally doesn't approve building infrastructure.


Pardon me....but WHY exactly would the airlines not support such a move? Why would they not be for something which would improve their customer scores? Why would the airlines even have that much of a say regarding infrastructure which is actually about border control as opposed to customer amenities?


Unfortunately the airlines don't really tend to be all that interested in what happens the passengers once they arrive at the airport. So long as they are off their aircraft quickly and they can turn around and get back out, doesn't matter to them how long it takes to get through immigration.

Through the regulator determination process all airlines have a say in what can and cannot be built at DUB, which ultimately feeds into what the daa are allowed to charge in passenger fees. The airlines traditionally will support infrastructure building that supports their business models and strategies. The arriving passenger experience isn't one of them, so it's easy to see why they would support other building projects ahead of that.

eirflot wrote:
We are at it again!
Apples, oranges and bananas - staffing issues have nothing to do with CTA.
And why would airlines pay additional for a service that already exists, all be it screwed up - immigration is immigration, no matter the lane!

:banghead:
:white:


It's not the "service" they are paying for, it's the infrastructure that's required to deliver it, which is not currently there.


No matter how much anyone tries to oversimplify this whole process, there are many influencing factors.

Re: Irish 6/19: Dublin's bubblin' ...

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:57 am
by OA260
Dedicated immigration facility due to open at Dublin Airport

A new dedicated immigration facility at Dublin Airport is due to open in the coming months.

The centre, the country’s first secure facility for immigrant detainees, has been planned since early 2017.

The State has been criticised over many years, both by international and domestic prison inspection bodies, for housing immigrant detainees in prison.

www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/irel ... 30395.html

---

DUBLIN AIRPORT are to introduce plastic-free water bottles as an alternative for travellers to take before boarding their flight.

Over the next few weeks, plastic-free bottles will be made available for customers and will be added to the shelves located after security screening in both Terminal 1 and Terminal 2.

Passengers will still be able to grab themselves a usual carton of water but now they’ll have the chance to pick up an environmentally friendly one as they head to their flight.

The move comes as part of Dublin Airport’s ‘sustainability programme’, and their Twitter account posted this morning about the initiative:

“As part of our sustainability programme we’re testing alternatives to our Plane Water bottles over the next few weeks. Passengers can pick up a carton of water or buy a 100% recyclable & reusable bottle of Plane Water in T1 or T2 after security screening. Both cost €1.” Read the tweet.

www.irishpost.com/news/dublin-airport-i ... ers-168028

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Ryanair pilots push for pay rise as threat of disruption in UK grows

Irish-based Ryanair pilots are at loggerheads with airline bosses after lodging a claim for a pay rise ahead of the busy summer holiday season.

The Irish Airline Pilots' Association (Ialpa) put in the claim less than a year after the carrier was embroiled in a dispute that led to flight cancellations last summer.

It is understood that the airline told the union to come back with "sensible proposals" in a letter after it submitted details of its demands.

Sources said the letter described the claim as having no basis in reality and said Ryanair pilots in Ireland are better paid than their counterparts in Norwegian and Jet2.

Numerous flights were cancelled in a separate dispute last year when over 100 Ialpa members mounted pickets.

www.independent.ie/irish-news/ryanair-p ... 15338.html