IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:51 am

moa999 wrote:
SeaEagle8 wrote:
they may want to hurry up and order more aircraft.


Plenty of time for that.
And I suspect somewhat dependent on the Sunrise decision and timing.

With last night's announcement of the 321XLR I also wonder whether a small fleet based at BNE, ADL and CBR is a possibility for flights to SIN, HKG and NRT.


Routes still need to make financial sense, even if a smaller aircraft reduces the risk of launching new services.

SIN could well be a good option for additional/new services from places like BNE and ADL by JQ or even QF if it went down that path.

HKG’s capacity issues won’t be solved until the 3rd runway is completed, so can’t see any movement on that one for some time.

I could see JQ using the A321XLR (if it converts some orders to the type) on CNS/OOL-Japan routes in future. It would be a way of centralising the 788 fleet at MEL and SYD.

Can’t see any love for CBR though. The market just doesn’t really have the volume, even if yields have potential to be good.
 
QF742
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:11 am

SeaEagle8 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas says their first priority with BNE-SFO and BNE-ORD is to make them daily, they also say BNE may see other US routes in the future such as DFW and SEA

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-eyes-fu ... paign=news


If this is their “first priority” they may want to hurry up and order more aircraft.
There aren’t anymore widebodies on order after the last 6 789s arrive.


QF are very good with marketing and PR - these kind of comments will be received very well by the media and will create fodder for lots of articles = free publicity for the airline. Certainly no criticism of the airline, if anything, they need to give their marketing/PR team good bonuses!

I have no doubt though that QF's intention would be to make these routes both daily in time. It seems to generally be QF's aim of most international routes to build them up to daily service. My guess is that these will become daily at the time of sunrise and that BNE-ORD will go to SYD and BNE-SFO will take over the balance of frequencies left from ORD, making it daily as well.

QF have been very considered in its approach to international flying, they have opened up a number of new routes, while keeping capacity under control. My guess is that we will see some extra 789s ordered, but its important to keep in mind that to some extent the Project Sunrise aircraft will replace some 789s (and free them up for other missions). Primary example being the 789s used on MEL-PER-LHR will eventually replaced with the sunrise aircraft and same for BNE-ORD.
 
JQ321
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:13 am

moa999 wrote:
SeaEagle8 wrote:
they may want to hurry up and order more aircraft.


Plenty of time for that.
And I suspect somewhat dependent on the Sunrise decision and timing.

With last night's announcement of the 321XLR I also wonder whether a small fleet based at BNE, ADL and CBR is a possibility for flights to SIN, HKG and NRT.

More Likely Perth than Brisbane.
 
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SeaEagle8
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:33 am

QF742 wrote:
SeaEagle8 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas says their first priority with BNE-SFO and BNE-ORD is to make them daily, they also say BNE may see other US routes in the future such as DFW and SEA

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-eyes-fu ... paign=news


If this is their “first priority” they may want to hurry up and order more aircraft.
There aren’t anymore widebodies on order after the last 6 789s arrive.


QF are very good with marketing and PR - these kind of comments will be received very well by the media and will create fodder for lots of articles = free publicity for the airline. Certainly no criticism of the airline, if anything, they need to give their marketing/PR team good bonuses!

I have no doubt though that QF's intention would be to make these routes both daily in time. It seems to generally be QF's aim of most international routes to build them up to daily service. My guess is that these will become daily at the time of sunrise and that BNE-ORD will go to SYD and BNE-SFO will take over the balance of frequencies left from ORD, making it daily as well.

QF have been very considered in its approach to international flying, they have opened up a number of new routes, while keeping capacity under control. My guess is that we will see some extra 789s ordered, but its important to keep in mind that to some extent the Project Sunrise aircraft will replace some 789s (and free them up for other missions). Primary example being the 789s used on MEL-PER-LHR will eventually replaced with the sunrise aircraft and same for BNE-ORD.


Yes but most airlines are great with spinning PR.

The BNE announcements are fantastic but the net gain is two new routes and only 4 additional flights per week. SFO is already served from SYD and MEL. ORD is the big new route. This will be the only unique route from BNE. AJ has talked about SEA and DFW but DFW already served from SYD and SEA could be easily served from SYD nonstop. ORD is the one destination that could not be economically reached from SYD with the current fleet. So let’s not get too carried away with the significance of this.

His recent press interviews were obviously related to the Brisbane announcement and let’s not forget this was a result of an agreement with the QLD government to base 4 of the dreamliners there. That’s political and not necessarily economic.

To move both BNE-SFO and BNE-ORD to daily isn’t going to happen overnight. QF will obviously have to analyse the results of these routes. Their announcement states the earliest these will launch will be the end of April 2020.

The next (and last confirmed) deliveries of the 789s will have to deal with SYD’s 744 routes. That’s a given.
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oskarclare
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:35 am

Looks like Thai Airasia X will commence A339 services to BNE next month. No specific launch date given however sometime in July inaugural A339 will take place. Also first scheduled A339 into Australia. Article also talks about adding 2-3 more Australian cities from Thailand (AVV, PER, SYD?). XJ start DMK-BNE flights next Tuesday (Wednesday BNE) and will operate 4x weekly.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/airasia-eye ... n-in-paris
https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/travel/ ... ew-planes/
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:13 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
moa999 wrote:
SeaEagle8 wrote:
they may want to hurry up and order more aircraft.


Plenty of time for that.
And I suspect somewhat dependent on the Sunrise decision and timing.

With last night's announcement of the 321XLR I also wonder whether a small fleet based at BNE, ADL and CBR is a possibility for flights to SIN, HKG and NRT.


Routes still need to make financial sense, even if a smaller aircraft reduces the risk of launching new services.

SIN could well be a good option for additional/new services from places like BNE and ADL by JQ or even QF if it went down that path.

HKG’s capacity issues won’t be solved until the 3rd runway is completed, so can’t see any movement on that one for some time.

I could see JQ using the A321XLR (if it converts some orders to the type) on CNS/OOL-Japan routes in future. It would be a way of centralising the 788 fleet at MEL and SYD.

Can’t see any love for CBR though. The market just doesn’t really have the volume, even if yields have potential to be good.


I would guess any A321XLRs by QF mainline would primarily be based in ADL and/or PER, for flights to SIN, CGK or NRT. Possibly also PER-AKL as well.

BNE may get some A321XLRs to supplement some flights (in addition to the existing flights), e.g a second BNE-SIN flight could be on the A321XLR. As well as expand into the traditional low yielding VFR markets, e.g BNE-MNL (with SYD-MNL perhaps also substituted for the XLR) and BNE-DPS (perhaps alongside JQ as the "2nd daily" for the QF group).
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:11 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
moa999 wrote:

Plenty of time for that.
And I suspect somewhat dependent on the Sunrise decision and timing.

With last night's announcement of the 321XLR I also wonder whether a small fleet based at BNE, ADL and CBR is a possibility for flights to SIN, HKG and NRT.


Routes still need to make financial sense, even if a smaller aircraft reduces the risk of launching new services.

SIN could well be a good option for additional/new services from places like BNE and ADL by JQ or even QF if it went down that path.

HKG’s capacity issues won’t be solved until the 3rd runway is completed, so can’t see any movement on that one for some time.

I could see JQ using the A321XLR (if it converts some orders to the type) on CNS/OOL-Japan routes in future. It would be a way of centralising the 788 fleet at MEL and SYD.

Can’t see any love for CBR though. The market just doesn’t really have the volume, even if yields have potential to be good.


I would guess any A321XLRs by QF mainline would primarily be based in ADL and/or PER, for flights to SIN, CGK or NRT. Possibly also PER-AKL as well.

BNE may get some A321XLRs to supplement some flights (in addition to the existing flights), e.g a second BNE-SIN flight could be on the A321XLR. As well as expand into the traditional low yielding VFR markets, e.g BNE-MNL (with SYD-MNL perhaps also substituted for the XLR) and BNE-DPS (perhaps alongside JQ as the "2nd daily" for the QF group).


While the A321XLR would be a good fit for JQ I am not convinced about the same for QF, I just don't think QF would want to put their customers on a narrowbody for 8 hours plus and there seems to be a bit of drawback from legacy airlines such as QR, LH, UA on the A321XLR, they all are interested in the 797. That would allow them to put in a decent business class seats where as the A321 you are limited what you can do without taking up to much space, galleys would likely be too small then there is the issue of the lavs, the space lav toilets are ok for flights of 2-3 hours but they lack any storage space for compared to older designs, the bins in them are about half the size of what they have replaced so while these are small things airlines will need to be careful on how they go about it.
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redroo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:20 pm

qf789 wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:

Routes still need to make financial sense, even if a smaller aircraft reduces the risk of launching new services.

SIN could well be a good option for additional/new services from places like BNE and ADL by JQ or even QF if it went down that path.

HKG’s capacity issues won’t be solved until the 3rd runway is completed, so can’t see any movement on that one for some time.

I could see JQ using the A321XLR (if it converts some orders to the type) on CNS/OOL-Japan routes in future. It would be a way of centralising the 788 fleet at MEL and SYD.

Can’t see any love for CBR though. The market just doesn’t really have the volume, even if yields have potential to be good.


I would guess any A321XLRs by QF mainline would primarily be based in ADL and/or PER, for flights to SIN, CGK or NRT. Possibly also PER-AKL as well.

BNE may get some A321XLRs to supplement some flights (in addition to the existing flights), e.g a second BNE-SIN flight could be on the A321XLR. As well as expand into the traditional low yielding VFR markets, e.g BNE-MNL (with SYD-MNL perhaps also substituted for the XLR) and BNE-DPS (perhaps alongside JQ as the "2nd daily" for the QF group).


While the A321XLR would be a good fit for JQ I am not convinced about the same for QF, I just don't think QF would want to put their customers on a narrowbody for 8 hours plus and there seems to be a bit of drawback from legacy airlines such as QR, LH, UA on the A321XLR, they all are interested in the 797. That would allow them to put in a decent business class seats where as the A321 you are limited what you can do without taking up to much space, galleys would likely be too small then there is the issue of the lavs, the space lav toilets are ok for flights of 2-3 hours but they lack any storage space for compared to older designs, the bins in them are about half the size of what they have replaced so while these are small things airlines will need to be careful on how they go about it.



Agree. Where would QF send a A321XLR that isn’t already covered adequately by a full wide body?

Singapore? Too much traffic. Hong Kong? Slot constrained. Tokyo? Constrained. Beyond that you’re talking about “second tier” Asian cities that aren’t where the core money is.

JQ yes. QF no.
 
vhebb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:03 pm

I disagree...

Possible QF A321XLR routes:

*2x daily PER-SIN-PER replacing current daily A330
*Daily SYD-CGK-SYD replacing the 5x weekly A330
*DPS from SYD and MEL replacing A330/B73H
*New ADL-SIN-ADL route
*New BNE-DPS-BNE or perhaps BNE-MNL-BNE
 
Boof
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:17 pm

vhebb wrote:
I disagree...

Possible QF A321XLR routes:

*2x daily PER-SIN-PER replacing current daily A330
*Daily SYD-CGK-SYD replacing the 5x weekly A330
*DPS from SYD and MEL replacing A330/B73H
*New ADL-SIN-ADL route


None of the above need the additional range of the XLR? A standard NEO could fly these in a QF style config, including flat beds in J.

JQ only ordered (or more correctly QF ordered for JQ) the A321LR for the ability to haul 240 pax at those longer distances as a lighter config NEO could do DPS from the East Cost.
Bring back Virgin Blue!
 
Boof
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:21 pm

qf789 wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:

Routes still need to make financial sense, even if a smaller aircraft reduces the risk of launching new services.

SIN could well be a good option for additional/new services from places like BNE and ADL by JQ or even QF if it went down that path.

HKG’s capacity issues won’t be solved until the 3rd runway is completed, so can’t see any movement on that one for some time.

I could see JQ using the A321XLR (if it converts some orders to the type) on CNS/OOL-Japan routes in future. It would be a way of centralising the 788 fleet at MEL and SYD.

Can’t see any love for CBR though. The market just doesn’t really have the volume, even if yields have potential to be good.


I would guess any A321XLRs by QF mainline would primarily be based in ADL and/or PER, for flights to SIN, CGK or NRT. Possibly also PER-AKL as well.

BNE may get some A321XLRs to supplement some flights (in addition to the existing flights), e.g a second BNE-SIN flight could be on the A321XLR. As well as expand into the traditional low yielding VFR markets, e.g BNE-MNL (with SYD-MNL perhaps also substituted for the XLR) and BNE-DPS (perhaps alongside JQ as the "2nd daily" for the QF group).


While the A321XLR would be a good fit for JQ I am not convinced about the same for QF, I just don't think QF would want to put their customers on a narrowbody for 8 hours plus and there seems to be a bit of drawback from legacy airlines such as QR, LH, UA on the A321XLR, they all are interested in the 797. That would allow them to put in a decent business class seats where as the A321 you are limited what you can do without taking up to much space, galleys would likely be too small then there is the issue of the lavs, the space lav toilets are ok for flights of 2-3 hours but they lack any storage space for compared to older designs, the bins in them are about half the size of what they have replaced so while these are small things airlines will need to be careful on how they go about it.


While I agree with most of your post QF789, are you confusing the Cabin-Flex cabin that JQ have now on the newer 320’s with the Airspace cabin that Airbus offer on the XLR? They are two different products... the latter being offered on the XLR and NEO to better match the wide body experience of the 330 and 350 cabins. Bigger bins, toilets, and redesigned seats for 2 class interiors.

I agree with you that nobody would want to fly 8 hours and have to use those dog box toilets in the Cabin-Flex interior!
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Chris2302
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:52 pm

Qantas to fly seasonal B787 flights from SYD to AKL over the summer from 4th December 2019 to 28th March 2020.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... er-summer/
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:06 am

Agree no point buying a 321XLR for routes a 737 can do. Routes I could see for QF.
PER - AKL, HKG (vs CX)
ADL - SIN, HKG, NRT
CBR - HKG, SIN (less likely)
Additional frequency services to SYD, MEL, HKG, possibly on the seemingly less popular day flights back from Asia where the 330 hasn't worked.

As for the 321XLR vs 797 it's an interesting one.

I'd always thought a better 797 was one that was epic in the 500-2500nm range (so domestic Aus/US and shorthaul Europe) - a 767 usage replacement in the Aus context - but it appears Boeing keeps on trying to push the range to satisfy some customers. Possibly this announcement which provides airlines with a cheaper, less risky aircraft for those medium flights makes them pull back on that.
 
TasFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:29 am

Boof wrote:
vhebb wrote:
I disagree...

Possible QF A321XLR routes:

*2x daily PER-SIN-PER replacing current daily A330
*Daily SYD-CGK-SYD replacing the 5x weekly A330
*DPS from SYD and MEL replacing A330/B73H
*New ADL-SIN-ADL route


None of the above need the additional range of the XLR? A standard NEO could fly these in a QF style config, including flat beds in J.

JQ only ordered (or more correctly QF ordered for JQ) the A321LR for the ability to haul 240 pax at those longer distances as a lighter config NEO could do DPS from the East Cost.


How about HBA-SIN, HBA-HKG, or HBA-CAN?
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:16 am

Woah!

"Qantas will add the long-range Airbus A321XLR to its fleet, first flights from 2024"

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-adds-ai ... -its-fleet"
 
Boof
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:37 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Woah!

"Qantas will add the long-range Airbus A321XLR to its fleet, first flights from 2024"

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-adds-ai ... -its-fleet"


These have Jetstar written all over them. The 787’s will be moved to other routes, or maybe even moved to QF, and the XLR will then be used for the Asian/Japan JQ routes.

If QF do take some then these suggestions aren’t bad below:

moa999 wrote:
PER - AKL, HKG (vs CX)
ADL - SIN, HKG, NRT


TasFlyer wrote:
How about HBA-SIN
Bring back Virgin Blue!
 
log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:48 am

Internal talk at the moment is 12 to QF, 12 to JQ Australia - remaining to Jetstar Asia/Pacific/Japan
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:56 am

Very Interesting.

I could see them used on transcon routes replacing the 738s to go up against VA 737-10s
 
downdata
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:15 am

QF has a bit of a capacity issue flying to secondary cities in asia - the XLR could help with routes like KIX and PVG, improving yields and the day time flights won't be as painful for the pax. It could also help them open up routes like CAN, FUK and direct routes from BNE.
 
QF742
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:24 am

I think the A321XLR makes a lot of sense for JQ. I think the CNS/OOL-HNL routes will go A321XLR. Good chances the same for all Bali routes and probably SGN. Would the 321xlr be able to do MEL-BKK/HKT and SYD-HKT?

This would leave only HNL as the only aircraft needing the 788. Certainly makes you wonder if the 788s could go to QF.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:17 am

QF742 wrote:
I think the A321XLR makes a lot of sense for JQ. I think the CNS/OOL-HNL routes will go A321XLR. Good chances the same for all Bali routes and probably SGN. Would the 321xlr be able to do MEL-BKK/HKT and SYD-HKT?

This would leave only HNL as the only aircraft needing the 788. Certainly makes you wonder if the 788s could go to QF.


JQ doesn’t fly CNS/OOL-HNL. Did you mean to Japan instead?

Bali will be a good fit for the JQ and QF flights, but the further afield flights may be more challenging as the JQ model does tend to require a denser cabin configuration.

Freeing up the JQ 788 from the Japan and Indonesian destinations would be a fairly big chunk of utilisation that is freed up. It could allow for increases to existing longer range routes, or opening up new network opportunities (ie. MEL-ICN, MEL-BLR).
 
QF742
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:21 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
QF742 wrote:
I think the A321XLR makes a lot of sense for JQ. I think the CNS/OOL-HNL routes will go A321XLR. Good chances the same for all Bali routes and probably SGN. Would the 321xlr be able to do MEL-BKK/HKT and SYD-HKT?

This would leave only HNL as the only aircraft needing the 788. Certainly makes you wonder if the 788s could go to QF.


JQ doesn’t fly CNS/OOL-HNL. Did you mean to Japan instead?

Bali will be a good fit for the JQ and QF flights, but the further afield flights may be more challenging as the JQ model does tend to require a denser cabin configuration.

Freeing up the JQ 788 from the Japan and Indonesian destinations would be a fairly big chunk of utilisation that is freed up. It could allow for increases to existing longer range routes, or opening up new network opportunities (ie. MEL-ICN, MEL-BLR).


Sorry - I meant CNS/OOL-Japan!
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:30 am

QF742 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
QF742 wrote:
I think the A321XLR makes a lot of sense for JQ. I think the CNS/OOL-HNL routes will go A321XLR. Good chances the same for all Bali routes and probably SGN. Would the 321xlr be able to do MEL-BKK/HKT and SYD-HKT?

This would leave only HNL as the only aircraft needing the 788. Certainly makes you wonder if the 788s could go to QF.


JQ doesn’t fly CNS/OOL-HNL. Did you mean to Japan instead?

Bali will be a good fit for the JQ and QF flights, but the further afield flights may be more challenging as the JQ model does tend to require a denser cabin configuration.

Freeing up the JQ 788 from the Japan and Indonesian destinations would be a fairly big chunk of utilisation that is freed up. It could allow for increases to existing longer range routes, or opening up new network opportunities (ie. MEL-ICN, MEL-BLR).


Sorry - I meant CNS/OOL-Japan!


All good. Yeah, the A321XLR would be a great fit for those routes.

The 788’s can then move to be based purely at MEL and SYD/Badgery’s Creek, strengthening the offering at the 2 main bases and providing new options across the country also for JQ to explore internationally with the A321XLR.
 
QF742
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:43 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
QF742 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:

JQ doesn’t fly CNS/OOL-HNL. Did you mean to Japan instead?

Bali will be a good fit for the JQ and QF flights, but the further afield flights may be more challenging as the JQ model does tend to require a denser cabin configuration.

Freeing up the JQ 788 from the Japan and Indonesian destinations would be a fairly big chunk of utilisation that is freed up. It could allow for increases to existing longer range routes, or opening up new network opportunities (ie. MEL-ICN, MEL-BLR).


Sorry - I meant CNS/OOL-Japan!


All good. Yeah, the A321XLR would be a great fit for those routes.

The 788’s can then move to be based purely at MEL and SYD/Badgery’s Creek, strengthening the offering at the 2 main bases and providing new options across the country also for JQ to explore internationally with the A321XLR.


I struggle to think what they will do with all 11x 789s though when the 321xlr arrive and also can’t see JQ international embarking on any rapid expansion.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:51 am

^ Well there is the constantly mentioned option of moving the 11x 788s to QF mainline. With the few routes that can't be moved to the XLR (namely SYD/MEL-HNL) shifted to QF with it.

This would mean more than daily on the SYD-HNL route as QF mainline if that scenario was to occur.

A less premium heavy config for the 788 at QF could be useful for the Asian or even explore the possibilities of point to point secondary North American routes e.g SYD-SAN or SYD-MEX
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:00 am

QF742 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
QF742 wrote:

Sorry - I meant CNS/OOL-Japan!


All good. Yeah, the A321XLR would be a great fit for those routes.

The 788’s can then move to be based purely at MEL and SYD/Badgery’s Creek, strengthening the offering at the 2 main bases and providing new options across the country also for JQ to explore internationally with the A321XLR.


I struggle to think what they will do with all 11x 789s though when the 321xlr arrive and also can’t see JQ international embarking on any rapid expansion.


There has to be some viable options out there that JQ can attempt.

Possible future JQ 788 route network:
- MEL/SYD-HNL (current)
- MEL/SYD-SGN (current)
- MEL/SYD-HKT (current)
- MEL-BKK (current)
- MEL-CGO (current)
- MEL-MFM (has been rumored)
- MEL/SYD-BLR
- MEL-KIX (currently served via CNS)
- MEL/SYD-ICN (will be served via OOL soon)

At that point things get a bit harder to ascertain though, but expanding frequencies on current routes and a few additional destinations would be interesting to see someone do the maths on.

The possible routes on the A321XLR will also depend on the performance on routes with a very dense configuration that JQ would use.
 
QF742
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:11 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
QF742 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:

All good. Yeah, the A321XLR would be a great fit for those routes.

The 788’s can then move to be based purely at MEL and SYD/Badgery’s Creek, strengthening the offering at the 2 main bases and providing new options across the country also for JQ to explore internationally with the A321XLR.


I struggle to think what they will do with all 11x 789s though when the 321xlr arrive and also can’t see JQ international embarking on any rapid expansion.


There has to be some viable options out there that JQ can attempt.

Possible future JQ 788 route network:
- MEL/SYD-HNL (current)
- MEL/SYD-SGN (current)
- MEL/SYD-HKT (current)
- MEL-BKK (current)
- MEL-CGO (current)
- MEL-MFM (has been rumored)
- MEL/SYD-BLR
- MEL-KIX (currently served via CNS)
- MEL/SYD-ICN (will be served via OOL soon)

At that point things get a bit harder to ascertain though, but expanding frequencies on current routes and a few additional destinations would be interesting to see someone do the maths on.

The possible routes on the A321XLR will also depend on the performance on routes with a very dense configuration that JQ would use.


I agree that there are options for JQ for the 11 788s, I still think they will be very conservative about growth. In terms of capacity, JQ has barely grown at all since the arrival of the 788s. Would seem strange for JQ international to suddenly dump capacity. That’s why I agree with some other posts above that 788s could be seen in QF livery.
 
TN486T
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:26 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Woah!

"Qantas will add the long-range Airbus A321XLR to its fleet, first flights from 2024"

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-adds-ai ... -its-fleet"

I refuse to belong to paywall sites. Someone else is suggesting 12 for QF 12 for JQ and the rest for JQ international????? Is there a suggestion that QF is ordering 24 plus of this aircraft.. I would be extremely surprised if you see this aircraft in QF colours, however JQ different matter. Nah, I can't get my head around this. Woudn't the "767 replacement" be a better fit?
 
AVB
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:43 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:44 am

TN486T wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Woah!

"Qantas will add the long-range Airbus A321XLR to its fleet, first flights from 2024"

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-adds-ai ... -its-fleet"

I refuse to belong to paywall sites. Someone else is suggesting 12 for QF 12 for JQ and the rest for JQ international????? Is there a suggestion that QF is ordering 24 plus of this aircraft.. I would be extremely surprised if you see this aircraft in QF colours, however JQ different matter. Nah, I can't get my head around this. Woudn't the "767 replacement" be a better fit?


Well believe it and see it... https://australianaviation.com.au/2019/ ... rder-book/

Boeing is late with the 777X and preoccupied with the Max mess so the NMA aircraft timeline is pushed back. Excellent decision having A321XLR at QF while Boeing sorts itself out. Joyce has said the aircraft is interchangeable within the group.
 
Qantas737
Posts: 744
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2000 8:34 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:20 am

SCFlyer wrote:
^ Well there is the constantly mentioned option of moving the 11x 788s to QF mainline. With the few routes that can't be moved to the XLR (namely SYD/MEL-HNL) shifted to QF with it.

This would mean more than daily on the SYD-HNL route as QF mainline if that scenario was to occur.

A less premium heavy config for the 788 at QF could be useful for the Asian or even explore the possibilities of point to point secondary North American routes e.g SYD-SAN or SYD-MEX


Whilst possible, we do need to remember that the JQ 788s do not have crew rest fitted and thus will therefore likely not be able to take advantage of their full range in QF colours. Unless of course retrofitting a crew rest area is feasible? Makes you wonder why Qantas Group insisted that the 788s have their crew rests removed if there was a possibility of the aircraft appearing in QF colours at some stage.

I think if they do appear in QF colours they're more likely to be used on Asian routes similar to the A330s currently.
 
jimmyah
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:53 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:12 am

QF742 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
QF742 wrote:

I struggle to think what they will do with all 11x 789s though when the 321xlr arrive and also can’t see JQ international embarking on any rapid expansion.


There has to be some viable options out there that JQ can attempt.

Possible future JQ 788 route network:
- MEL/SYD-HNL (current)
- MEL/SYD-SGN (current)
- MEL/SYD-HKT (current)
- MEL-BKK (current)
- MEL-CGO (current)
- MEL-MFM (has been rumored)
- MEL/SYD-BLR
- MEL-KIX (currently served via CNS)
- MEL/SYD-ICN (will be served via OOL soon)

At that point things get a bit harder to ascertain though, but expanding frequencies on current routes and a few additional destinations would be interesting to see someone do the maths on.

The possible routes on the A321XLR will also depend on the performance on routes with a very dense configuration that JQ would use.


I agree that there are options for JQ for the 11 788s, I still think they will be very conservative about growth. In terms of capacity, JQ has barely grown at all since the arrival of the 788s. Would seem strange for JQ international to suddenly dump capacity. That’s why I agree with some other posts above that 788s could be seen in QF livery.


Could we see some XLRs based in NZ? Maybe AKL-HNL or AKL-PER?
 
Pcoder
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:44 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:22 am

It appears that QFs change to the Frequent Flyer program is dynamic reward pricing, with some rewards going down in price and some increasing (peak international flights).

Its been leaked and people are now reporting on Australian Frequent Flyer.
 
TN486T
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:14 am

AVB wrote:
TN486T wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Woah!

"Qantas will add the long-range Airbus A321XLR to its fleet, first flights from 2024"

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-adds-ai ... -its-fleet"

I refuse to belong to paywall sites. Someone else is suggesting 12 for QF 12 for JQ and the rest for JQ international????? Is there a suggestion that QF is ordering 24 plus of this aircraft.. I would be extremely surprised if you see this aircraft in QF colours, however JQ different matter. Nah, I can't get my head around this. Woudn't the "767 replacement" be a better fit?


Well believe it and see it... https://australianaviation.com.au/2019/ ... rder-book/

Boeing is late with the 777X and preoccupied with the Max mess so the NMA aircraft timeline is pushed back. Excellent decision having A321XLR at QF while Boeing sorts itself out. Joyce has said the aircraft is interchangeable within the group.

Thank you so much for that. Interesting times. Interchangeability like they did with the A330, maybe. Who knows!! It does show flexibility though doesn't it.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4266
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:40 am

jimmyah wrote:
Could we see some XLRs based in NZ? Maybe AKL-HNL or AKL-PER?

I could see that - also doing the likes of AKL - DPS, on top of AKL - HNL and AKL - PER.

Cheers,

C.
 
mrkerr7474
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:55 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:44 am

Pcoder wrote:
It appears that QFs change to the Frequent Flyer program is dynamic reward pricing, with some rewards going down in price and some increasing (peak international flights).

Its been leaked and people are now reporting on Australian Frequent Flyer.


Although not seen any changes to note and reading up what others are seeing on Australian Frequent Flyer, I did notice tonight that the layout of my QF account page has been updated to the new design. Can't say I really like it as not interested to know what I can buy from QFF store with my points on my homepage...
 
AVB
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:43 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:50 am

planemanofnz wrote:
jimmyah wrote:
Could we see some XLRs based in NZ? Maybe AKL-HNL or AKL-PER?

I could see that - also doing the likes of AKL - DPS, on top of AKL - HNL and AKL - PER.

Cheers,

C.


If that happens it’ll be with JQ NZ. Qantas has a working relationship with Air NZ at the moment so you’ll see JQ expand into other international destinations from there. Joyce said in February 2018, Qantas announced it had restructured orders for 18 long-range A321LRs for Jetstar Australia and New Zealand so the XLR could be flown out of NZ with JQ.
Last edited by AVB on Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
vhqpa
Posts: 1601
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:21 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:22 pm

Does anyone know the current breakdown of the QF group A32S neo order?

As far as I've been keeping track it's

45 A320neo
64 A321neo (of which 36 are for the XLR model)

I'd like to know of the 28 remaining A321neos are the 18 previously announced LRs still on the cards or are they part of the 26 conversions to XLR?

By the way looking at the render the A321neo looks great in QF colours the black cockpit mask suits the scheme well.

Congratulations to both Airbus and Qantas
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
QF744ER
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:57 pm

Qantas737 wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
^ Well there is the constantly mentioned option of moving the 11x 788s to QF mainline. With the few routes that can't be moved to the XLR (namely SYD/MEL-HNL) shifted to QF with it.

This would mean more than daily on the SYD-HNL route as QF mainline if that scenario was to occur.

A less premium heavy config for the 788 at QF could be useful for the Asian or even explore the possibilities of point to point secondary North American routes e.g SYD-SAN or SYD-MEX


Whilst possible, we do need to remember that the JQ 788s do not have crew rest fitted and thus will therefore likely not be able to take advantage of their full range in QF colours. Unless of course retrofitting a crew rest area is feasible? Makes you wonder why Qantas Group insisted that the 788s have their crew rests removed if there was a possibility of the aircraft appearing in QF colours at some stage.

I think if they do appear in QF colours they're more likely to be used on Asian routes similar to the A330s currently.


BI recently retrofitted crew rest facilities into their B788's for their direct BWN-LHR flights when they dropped the stop in DXB, from memory these were modified by KE, so it's technically feasible.
 
getluv
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:57 pm

Someone pointed this out on QFF Forum, but there's a QF promo video out. You will soon be able to redeem QF points on (selected?) NZ, AF, KL, CI and PG flights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hvrN3dy-_8
I'm that bad type.
 
Chris2302
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:27 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:41 pm

vhqpa wrote:
Does anyone know the current breakdown of the QF group A32S neo order?

As far as I've been keeping track it's

45 A320neo
64 A321neo (of which 36 are for the XLR model)

I'd like to know of the 28 remaining A321neos are the 18 previously announced LRs still on the cards or are they part of the 26 conversions to XLR?

By the way looking at the render the A321neo looks great in QF colours the black cockpit mask suits the scheme well.

Congratulations to both Airbus and Qantas



The order book stands like this:

28 A321LR (18 for Jetstar from FY2020 2022)
36 A321XLR from FY2024
45 A320neo (what is the delivery dates of these?)
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 8393
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:51 pm

Alliance to operate PER-AYQ charter flights

https://blueswandaily.com/alliance-airl ... s-for-jtb/
Forum Moderator
 
Ishrion
Posts: 685
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:56 pm

getluv wrote:
Someone pointed this out on QFF Forum, but there's a QF promo video out. You will soon be able to redeem QF points on (selected?) NZ, AF, KL, CI and PG flights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hvrN3dy-_8


I love how the video has Amsterdam located on the northwest tip of France :D
 
Delta28L
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:55 pm

Chris2302 wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
Does anyone know the current breakdown of the QF group A32S neo order?

As far as I've been keeping track it's

45 A320neo
64 A321neo (of which 36 are for the XLR model)

I'd like to know of the 28 remaining A321neos are the 18 previously announced LRs still on the cards or are they part of the 26 conversions to XLR?

By the way looking at the render the A321neo looks great in QF colours the black cockpit mask suits the scheme well.

Congratulations to both Airbus and Qantas



The order book stands like this:

28 A321LR (18 for Jetstar from FY2020 2022)
36 A321XLR from FY2024
45 A320neo (what is the delivery dates of these?)


How many of these planes is JetStar getting?
 
kriskim
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:44 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:14 pm

I think this is the first time that we have actually seen renders of an A320 family aircraft in full QF colours from Airbus. IMHO QF should be replacing its 737 fleet with A320NEO family, the A321 will be very suitable for golden triangle and transcon hops. This will also give QF scope to expand into other Pacific destinations and Asian destinations exPER/ADL/BNE/CNS/MEL/SYD and secondary Asian destinations from MEL and SYD.

Any guesses on how many more A320’s we could see in QantasLink colours with Network?
A world built upon connectivity.
 
Chris2302
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:27 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:33 pm

Delta28L wrote:
Chris2302 wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
Does anyone know the current breakdown of the QF group A32S neo order?

As far as I've been keeping track it's

45 A320neo
64 A321neo (of which 36 are for the XLR model)

I'd like to know of the 28 remaining A321neos are the 18 previously announced LRs still on the cards or are they part of the 26 conversions to XLR?

By the way looking at the render the A321neo looks great in QF colours the black cockpit mask suits the scheme well.

Congratulations to both Airbus and Qantas



The order book stands like this:

28 A321LR (18 for Jetstar from FY2020 2022)
36 A321XLR from FY2024
45 A320neo (what is the delivery dates of these?)


How many of these planes is JetStar getting?


The 18 A321LRs plus any A321XLR that the Qantas Group allocates to JQ.
 
Fuling
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:54 pm

Considering QF has started a few leisure routes lately (DPS, NAN) might we see a couple more? Perhaps CEB, PPT etc?
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1633
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:33 am

All the details on the FFP changes

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... -overhaul/

I think the Lifetime Platinum and the non-flying points club are interesting ideas.

My read of this is that it is a move back towards flyers, ie giving them more value in the program and giving more value to points. Considering moves have been in the other direction, particularly after the credit card fee changes which changed the transaction values to make points more expensive to acquire, this is perhaps QF's bid to prevent any slide in the value of the points side of the business.
 
moa999
Posts: 428
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:07 am

LT Plat at 75000 SC is only really achievable for a small minority (those who pull in 5-6000 SC/year for a sustained period).

Otherwise for most I see it as a small devaluation with most premium rewards getting 10-15% more expensive though cash $ cost coming down.

I never saw much value in the economy rewards so reducing the cost doesn't appeal that much.

Overall not the earth shattering change that was promoted
 
getluv
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:08 am

The reduction in "fees" is quite substantial. The increase in points for premium seats makes a lot of sense if they're going to make more seats available for redemption. Given a majority of points are probably redeemed on economy seats this will like benefit most people with modest point balances.

At face value, QF are making the program more rewarding and putting pressure on banks and companies to continue to be QFF partners. The Points Club will also attract SMEs and people who go after credit card sign ups.
I'm that bad type.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2071
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:43 am

getluv wrote:
The reduction in "fees" is quite substantial. The increase in points for premium seats makes a lot of sense if they're going to make more seats available for redemption. Given a majority of points are probably redeemed on economy seats this will like benefit most people with modest point balances.

At face value, QF are making the program more rewarding and putting pressure on banks and companies to continue to be QFF partners. The Points Club will also attract SMEs and people who go after credit card sign ups.

They probably had no choice but to look to lower the fees and taxes. The ACCC has expressed a number of times concerns related to airlines and banks calling items taxes when they are just gouging and bear no relation to the actual costs involved. QF has got ahead of a potential conflict with the ACCC where the charges would come under severe review; whether they have averted this will be seen in the next few months I guess.
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