NZ6
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:26 pm

a7ala wrote:
From StatsNZ International Travel (YEMarch19):
https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-r ... march-2019

Singapore visitor arrivals to New Zealand = 61,622
New Zealand resident arrivals from Singapore = 26,202
Total = 87,824
Times 2 for two directions = 175,648

Capacity New Zealand-SIN = 870,500 seats (including WLG-MEL-SIN)

So around 20% of the New Zealand-SIN capacity is the New Zealand-SIN market. And that will be an overstatement as some of the market will be connecting via Australian airlines.


Do you know how this information is obtained, for example...

If I'm a Kiwi resident and I travel AKL-SIN and stop for 5 days to visit SIN. They fly to SGN for a week to experience Vietnam. When I return I return SGN-SIN-AKL without stopping on the SQ/NZ alliance, could be NZ ticket, SQ metal or any other combination.

Am I counted in the 26,000 who "New Zealand resident arrivals from Singapore". I assume it can't as a heap more would travel in from all over the world via Singapore. If I am, then the numbers inbound from SIN as O&D would be very very low. There are a lot of people who travel to visit SIN but also experience another destination in South East Asia, Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam being the most popular, but there's also Cambodia, India, Laos, Myanmar and parts of Indonesia...

I'm just weighing in as the vast majority of SIN traffic is connecting to ports within Asia and Europe, However, I'm doubtful the number of 'O&D' in these stats is accurate based on people using Aussie to connect and also those experiencing 'wider' South East Asia as well as Singapore who may be excluded.

But to ZK-NBT's original comment, SIN has the most seats for any long haul market connected directly to NZ for any carrier and the majority of passengers connect onwards, either the same day or after a sightseeing stopover.
 
a7ala
Posts: 283
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:46 pm

NZ6 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
From StatsNZ International Travel (YEMarch19):
https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-r ... march-2019

Singapore visitor arrivals to New Zealand = 61,622
New Zealand resident arrivals from Singapore = 26,202
Total = 87,824
Times 2 for two directions = 175,648

Capacity New Zealand-SIN = 870,500 seats (including WLG-MEL-SIN)

So around 20% of the New Zealand-SIN capacity is the New Zealand-SIN market. And that will be an overstatement as some of the market will be connecting via Australian airlines.


Do you know how this information is obtained, for example...

If I'm a Kiwi resident and I travel AKL-SIN and stop for 5 days to visit SIN. They fly to SGN for a week to experience Vietnam. When I return I return SGN-SIN-AKL without stopping on the SQ/NZ alliance, could be NZ ticket, SQ metal or any other combination.

Am I counted in the 26,000 who "New Zealand resident arrivals from Singapore". I assume it can't as a heap more would travel in from all over the world via Singapore. If I am, then the numbers inbound from SIN as O&D would be very very low. There are a lot of people who travel to visit SIN but also experience another destination in South East Asia, Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam being the most popular, but there's also Cambodia, India, Laos, Myanmar and parts of Indonesia...

I'm just weighing in as the vast majority of SIN traffic is connecting to ports within Asia and Europe, However, I'm doubtful the number of 'O&D' in these stats is accurate based on people using Aussie to connect and also those experiencing 'wider' South East Asia as well as Singapore who may be excluded.

But to ZK-NBT's original comment, SIN has the most seats for any long haul market connected directly to NZ for any carrier and the majority of passengers connect onwards, either the same day or after a sightseeing stopover.


Yes, currently it comes from arrival cards (used to come from departure cards for residents before they were scrapped). For residents its based on what the passenger puts down on the card to the question which country did you spend most of your time in. For visitors its based on the question which country did you live in during the last 12 months.

So in your example of 5 days SIN week in VietNam they should declare VietNam and they will be a resident return from VietNam in the stats.

Using the longest duration in country is probably fair enough as people would be planning their holiday based on the longest duration and furthest away destination (in this case VietNam) and then taking the opportunity to spend some time in SIN on the way through.

Surely the O&D is the ultimate destination and not the stopover? People will stopover wherever they get a good deal, in a city they havent been to before, or where connections work. Using the longest duration in country is probably fair enough as people would be planning their holiday based on the longest duration and furthest away destination (in this case VietNam) and then taking the opportunity to spend some time in SIN on the way through. A leisure person wouldnt be making the decision "im going to spend 5 days in SIN, I might as well do a week long side trip to VietNam". A business traveller might however, but they wouldnt do that if it was a SIN/Europe trip.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1054
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:47 pm

NZ6 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
From StatsNZ International Travel (YEMarch19):
https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-r ... march-2019

Singapore visitor arrivals to New Zealand = 61,622
New Zealand resident arrivals from Singapore = 26,202
Total = 87,824
Times 2 for two directions = 175,648

Capacity New Zealand-SIN = 870,500 seats (including WLG-MEL-SIN)

So around 20% of the New Zealand-SIN capacity is the New Zealand-SIN market. And that will be an overstatement as some of the market will be connecting via Australian airlines.


Do you know how this information is obtained, for example...

If I'm a Kiwi resident and I travel AKL-SIN and stop for 5 days to visit SIN. They fly to SGN for a week to experience Vietnam. When I return I return SGN-SIN-AKL without stopping on the SQ/NZ alliance, could be NZ ticket, SQ metal or any other combination.

Am I counted in the 26,000 who "New Zealand resident arrivals from Singapore". I assume it can't as a heap more would travel in from all over the world via Singapore. If I am, then the numbers inbound from SIN as O&D would be very very low. There are a lot of people who travel to visit SIN but also experience another destination in South East Asia, Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam being the most popular, but there's also Cambodia, India, Laos, Myanmar and parts of Indonesia...

I'm just weighing in as the vast majority of SIN traffic is connecting to ports within Asia and Europe, However, I'm doubtful the number of 'O&D' in these stats is accurate based on people using Aussie to connect and also those experiencing 'wider' South East Asia as well as Singapore who may be excluded.

But to ZK-NBT's original comment, SIN has the most seats for any long haul market connected directly to NZ for any carrier and the majority of passengers connect onwards, either the same day or after a sightseeing stopover.


I'll answer my own question
https://www.stats.govt.nz/assets/Upload ... -2019.xlsx

The number 26,202 is the number of NZ resident arrivals where Singapore is the 'main country visited'. I've not done any digging for a definition of the main country but it would imply this includes all inbound kiwis connecting Australia or any other port.

Therefore, with a minimum of 3 inbound Singapore direct flights. 2x AKL, 1x WLG and 1x CHC. We'll call it daily as AKL has 3 at times when WLG doesn't have daily so will loosely balance out.

26,202 / 365 days of the year: 71 Pax a day
71 Pax / 3 daily direct flights: 23 pax per flight,
Dilute by a few who transit via Australia for business, family or due to business contracts forcing travel on QF etc you're looking at between 20-25 passengers being Kiwis going to Singapore where their Main Destination is Singapore, the other 250+ are connecting or Singaporeans coming here.

Pretty clear really.
 
aerohottie
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:36 am

NZ6 wrote:
Regarding CHC and North America. I agree the 787 is a well-suited aircraft for this route. I agree there is a market here.

I'm also pleased with the QF/AA approval and I hope this offers broader competition and options between NZ and the US..

Are we just back to drawing lines on a map though?
-Why CHC/LAX when NZ has so many CHC-AKL sectors and can also 'flex in' CHC-AKL widebody extension and/or reopen this sector with ease.
- How is SYD-DFW working for QF and does AA/QF want to or need to expand capacity between them and if so why AKL and not BNE? Would it be MEL-AKL-DFW? While on the surface AKL-DFW looks obvious, is it? What do both carriers want to achieve, there seems to be an assumption that they will default to connecting AA's hub with AKL for some reason.
- AKL-MIA, why?

Questions should be looked at to understand how important NZ is to both QF and AA and/or is this a midpoint transfer to open new markets while also strengthening NZ.

- Could we see AKL-LAX daily year round with a 772 or 77W?
- Would they follow the trend of connecting Australasia and East Coast USA, if so would they take on NZ in Chicago, a massive AA hub? could they beat NZ to NYC or perhaps look at WAS and leave NYC for project sunrise in a few years when those aircraft come online.

I'd love to see AA (or QF) operate ORD/DFW/LAX - AKL - SYD/MEL/BNE, happily take CLT and JFK too
What?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:38 am

NZ6 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
I too have heard rumblings about something like that for CHC, particularly from a US carrier. Hopefully something like that happens. Would be cool. And Let's be honest, you probably couldn't get a more ideal aircraft for a CHC-LAX route than the 788.

planemanofnz wrote:
I've heard NZ is actually losing market share at CHC, on long-haul connections - that is to say, the growth in in-bound long-haul travel to CHC is coming via Australia, and not via AKL. That, to me, would indicate that AA/QF may be happy to leave US - CHC as is, routing via Australia.


Losing market share..... perhaps better said as diluted by the Chinese growth? a market foreign carriers are struggling to pick up. For example, look at the number of Chinese seats into Australia in proportion to the number QF offer.

I've not seen any strong evidence of a substantial shift in market share around CHC.

If you're implying, NZ is losing market share on N.A routes to AA/QF/VA/DL who are taking them via Australia then that's incorrect.

planemanofnz wrote:
It'll be interesting to see if NZ reconsiders CHC - LAX again. We will soon see NZ's 787-9's doing CHC - SIN, in addition to CHC - PER, so the scope for tying in a rotation to LAX may increase? Or, alternatively, we may see UA use its smaller 787-8 to do LAX or SFO - CHC, in the JV?.

777ER wrote:
With the QF/AA JV having received its interim approval by the USDOT.. I think an AA service AKL-DFW is quite likely.

ZK-NBT wrote:
Not AKL-DFW? How about something left field like CHC-LAX?


Regarding CHC and North America. I agree the 787 is a well-suited aircraft for this route. I agree there is a market here.

I'm also pleased with the QF/AA approval and I hope this offers broader competition and options between NZ and the US..

Are we just back to drawing lines on a map though?
-Why CHC/LAX when NZ has so many CHC-AKL sectors and can also 'flex in' CHC-AKL widebody extension and/or reopen this sector with ease.
- How is SYD-DFW working for QF and does AA/QF want to or need to expand capacity between them and if so why AKL and not BNE? Would it be MEL-AKL-DFW? While on the surface AKL-DFW looks obvious, is it? What do both carriers want to achieve, there seems to be an assumption that they will default to connecting AA's hub with AKL for some reason.
- AKL-MIA, why?

Questions should be looked at to understand how important NZ is to both QF and AA and/or is this a midpoint transfer to open new markets while also strengthening NZ.

- Could we see AKL-LAX daily year round with a 772 or 77W?
- Would they follow the trend of connecting Australasia and East Coast USA, if so would they take on NZ in Chicago, a massive AA hub? could they beat NZ to NYC or perhaps look at WAS and leave NYC for project sunrise in a few years when those aircraft come online.

I go back to a point I raised a few months back, how interested in the NZ market is QF? Would opening or expanding an AKL/CHC-LAX/SFO/DFW sector offer their Australian market anything when they've got this covered nicely? and how much desire is there to do this for the NZ market? If you're starting to wonder this, perhaps starting to think how could AKL/CHC be used to support or supplement the QF and AA primary bases?


Re DFW I’m not convinced AA would do a MEL-AKl-DFW but there so far seems to be no mention of MEL-DFW or AKL-DFW for that matter, would they look at AKL-DFW with QF connections from MEL/BNE while downguaging SYD-DFW to a 789? With MEL/BNE-DFW later when Project sunrise arrives.

As for AA I’m not sure I’d see a 777 to AKL, the 772 capacity is similar to the 789 while the 77W is much more premium including F.
 
TG788
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:50 am

I noticed in this map of CX's 1990 network that CX appeared to operate HKG-POM-AKL. Does anyone know if they had 5th freedom rights on it?
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:38 am

TG788 wrote:
I noticed in this map of CX's 1990 network that CX appeared to operate HKG-POM-AKL. Does anyone know if they had 5th freedom rights on it?

IIRC the service was shared between NZ, PX and CX, and operated on a seasonal rotational basis, turn about. Not sure who had rights on what sectors though.
Last edited by DavidByrne on Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
TG788
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:55 am

DavidByrne wrote:
TG788 wrote:
I noticed in this map of CX's 1990 network that CX appeared to operate HKG-POM-AKL. Does anyone know if they had 5th freedom rights on it?

IIRC the service was shared between NZ, PX and CX, and operated on a seasonal rotational basis, turn about. Not sure who had rights on what sectors though.


Thank you, that's very interesting. I am unfamiliar with these sort of arrangements. Would NZ/PX carry passengers to POM with PX/CX taking passengers to HKG? Or would they each take turns operating the entire route?
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:38 am

a7ala wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
a7ala wrote:

I doubt it. Unfortunately its a fact of life for a hub and spoke carrier that other airlines will come in over time to your spokes (as they become bigger) and continually erode your hub. Its the price you pay for operating that model but of course there is significant upside from that model as well.

The question is whether there is anything innovative they can do to fend off this erosion. One idea thats been discussed before is extending long haul widebody flights from AKL intl down to WLG and CHC intl providing a thru flight and a business class all the way - this would allow them to continue to operate their hub and spoke but being more competitive in the spoke markets.

Is an option as there are multiple flights arriving around the same time in the morning or departing in the evening. Between them shouldn’t be too hard to fill a 787 to CHC (I don’t see the justification for WLG though - too short a flight). Could be tied in with relocating aircraft for the likes of PER/SIN etc. Could be a seasonal option over the peak summer months.


I dont think the distance AKL-WLG vs AKL-CHC is particularly material - its only a 15min difference in flight time and both would be relatively short for a widebody. And interestingly there is as much international traffic connecting via AKL to/from WLG as CHC (CHC market is larger overall but most of them use the directs out of CHC). But the real benefit for WLG is offering the premium class product connection to international markets.

The difference is that boarding/disembarking together would take longer than the actual flight AKL-WLG. Also CHC already has NZ widebody services and who needs business class on a 45 minute flight?
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:37 am

TG788 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
TG788 wrote:
I noticed in this map of CX's 1990 network that CX appeared to operate HKG-POM-AKL. Does anyone know if they had 5th freedom rights on it?

IIRC the service was shared between NZ, PX and CX, and operated on a seasonal rotational basis, turn about. Not sure who had rights on what sectors though.


Thank you, that's very interesting. I am unfamiliar with these sort of arrangements. Would NZ/PX carry passengers to POM with PX/CX taking passengers to HKG? Or would they each take turns operating the entire route?

Each carrier operated the entire route (actually not sure if PX operated the route at all, or just codeshared on NZ or CX).
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
TG788
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:21 am

DavidByrne wrote:
TG788 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
IIRC the service was shared between NZ, PX and CX, and operated on a seasonal rotational basis, turn about. Not sure who had rights on what sectors though.


Thank you, that's very interesting. I am unfamiliar with these sort of arrangements. Would NZ/PX carry passengers to POM with PX/CX taking passengers to HKG? Or would they each take turns operating the entire route?

Each carrier operated the entire route (actually not sure if PX operated the route at all, or just codeshared on NZ or CX).


Thank you again! :)
 
Motorhussy
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:46 am

TG788 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
TG788 wrote:

Thank you, that's very interesting. I am unfamiliar with these sort of arrangements. Would NZ/PX carry passengers to POM with PX/CX taking passengers to HKG? Or would they each take turns operating the entire route?

Each carrier operated the entire route (actually not sure if PX operated the route at all, or just codeshared on NZ or CX).


Thank you again! :)


I remember seeing the occasional PX 707 at AKL back in the early 80’s. I used to fly out regularly to home in the US from boarding school in New Zealand.
come visit the south pacific
 
Gangurru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:51 am

DavidByrne wrote:
TG788 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
IIRC the service was shared between NZ, PX and CX, and operated on a seasonal rotational basis, turn about. Not sure who had rights on what sectors though.


Thank you, that's very interesting. I am unfamiliar with these sort of arrangements. Would NZ/PX carry passengers to POM with PX/CX taking passengers to HKG? Or would they each take turns operating the entire route?

Each carrier operated the entire route (actually not sure if PX operated the route at all, or just codeshared on NZ or CX).


PX operated the route with 707s. I’ve got a book from the early 1980s with photos of airlines then serving NZ. It features the lovely bird of paradise parked at AKL and a description of the tripartite service. Each airline had full traffic rights on all sectors.

Although the link says 1990 route map, it was only operated in the early 1980s. By 1990 NZ and CX were flying nonstop on a joint codeshare basis. (Deja vu?)

Swire, CX’s owners, had significant business interests in PNG. This is why they transited POM even though aircraft at the time could fly AKL-HKG nonstop. Apparently a nasty attack on CX staff, including rapes, made them pull the POM service.
 
x1234
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:36 pm

Is NZ next summer going to increase the frequency of its AKL-EZE (Buenos Aires) service next summer!? I noticed on its Argentina website its now selling EZE-AKL-NRT/SIN/PVG to Asia with competitive prices (US $1500) round-trip. Maybe this will increase the loads of the flights! :)
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:20 pm

x1234 wrote:
Is NZ next summer going to increase the frequency of its AKL-EZE (Buenos Aires) service next summer!? I noticed on its Argentina website its now selling EZE-AKL-NRT/SIN/PVG to Asia with competitive prices (US $1500) round-trip. Maybe this will increase the loads of the flights! :)

Still listed at 5x weekly. I think it was up to 6x a couple of years back in the peak of peaks but was cut back to 5x last year with the RR problems.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
TG788
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:53 am

Gangurru wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
TG788 wrote:

Thank you, that's very interesting. I am unfamiliar with these sort of arrangements. Would NZ/PX carry passengers to POM with PX/CX taking passengers to HKG? Or would they each take turns operating the entire route?

Each carrier operated the entire route (actually not sure if PX operated the route at all, or just codeshared on NZ or CX).


PX operated the route with 707s. I’ve got a book from the early 1980s with photos of airlines then serving NZ. It features the lovely bird of paradise parked at AKL and a description of the tripartite service. Each airline had full traffic rights on all sectors.

Although the link says 1990 route map, it was only operated in the early 1980s. By 1990 NZ and CX were flying nonstop on a joint codeshare basis. (Deja vu?)

Swire, CX’s owners, had significant business interests in PNG. This is why they transited POM even though aircraft at the time could fly AKL-HKG nonstop. Apparently a nasty attack on CX staff, including rapes, made them pull the POM service.


Thank you! A fascinating (warts and all) piece of history. Have a good weekend :)
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:59 am

x1234 wrote:
Is NZ next summer going to increase the frequency of its AKL-EZE (Buenos Aires) service next summer!? I noticed on its Argentina website its now selling EZE-AKL-NRT/SIN/PVG to Asia with competitive prices (US $1500) round-trip. Maybe this will increase the loads of the flights! :)


They would usually have announced any changes by now, however sometimes things won’t get announced until July or so for the NW.

I think the flight does pretty well, they just don’t have great slots or enough slots to connect Asia to EZE well, though all Asian departures bar PVG will be in the morning ex AKL from NW, NRT/KIX/HKG/TPE/ICN, EZE arrival is 0525, ICB departs at 1200, probably would be earlier but slots don’t permit at ICN, all returns are in the morning bar ICN at 1255 EZE departs at 2010.

DavidByrne wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Is NZ next summer going to increase the frequency of its AKL-EZE (Buenos Aires) service next summer!? I noticed on its Argentina website its now selling EZE-AKL-NRT/SIN/PVG to Asia with competitive prices (US $1500) round-trip. Maybe this will increase the loads of the flights! :)

Still listed at 5x weekly. I think it was up to 6x a couple of years back in the peak of peaks but was cut back to 5x last year with the RR problems.


It was meant to be 6x weekly last NW 2018/19 but was reduced to 5 before it started due RR issues. Was 5 weekly In NW17/18.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:52 pm

Does anybody know what config PR are using on the A330 to AKL? Is it the 9-abreast or 8-abreast economy? Actually, I am hunting business class config but it seams the two are linked. Any help gratefully received. After Sam Chui's review I am keen to try but only in the new config.
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ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:08 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Does anybody know what config PR are using on the A330 to AKL? Is it the 9-abreast or 8-abreast economy? Actually, I am hunting business class config but it seams the two are linked. Any help gratefully received. After Sam Chui's review I am keen to try but only in the new config.


It will be the 8 abreast, pretty sure the 9 abreast are an all Y configuration used on short and medium haul.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:25 am

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... zoning-tag

An interesting read, if you accept from Westgate to Parakai it's a 30-minute drive without any road improvements and it's a similar time from Silverdale area, then add 10-20 years of growth around each of those areas, or if you looked at the Population of the WDHB (North Shore, West Auckland and Whangaparaoa areas) that being, 630,000 people.
https://www.health.govt.nz/new-zealand- ... temata-dhb

Add another 10-20 years of congestion into Auckland via S.H 1, 16, 18 and 20.

You can see how a West Auckland regional airport could work.

I mean, let's use the WDHB data at 630,000 people, just take a quarter of that. 157,000 that's a massive junk of people who would be closer to Parakai than AKL subject to traffic and road improvements. Also, of that, you could weigh in the average wealth of those in this area.

Not saying it will happen, I just raised this as a fantastical idea last year and actually believe there is some minor merit in it.

There were calls in the late 90's early 2000's to convert Whenuapai into an airfield for commercial services, even domestic or regional. Glad they didn't as this is now almost all residential but proves there has been an appetite for it previously, 30 years on will it happen? Could we see 3C do something like this?
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:53 am

NZ321 wrote:
Does anybody know what config PR are using on the A330 to AKL? Is it the 9-abreast or 8-abreast economy? Actually, I am hunting business class config but it seams the two are linked. Any help gratefully received. After Sam Chui's review I am keen to try but only in the new config.


It's the 8 across. and 3 class config.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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MillwallSean
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:52 am

a7ala wrote:

Yes, currently it comes from arrival cards (used to come from departure cards for residents before they were scrapped). For residents its based on what the passenger puts down on the card to the question which country did you spend most of your time in. For visitors its based on the question which country did you live in during the last 12 months.

So in your example of 5 days SIN week in VietNam they should declare VietNam and they will be a resident return from VietNam in the stats..


Issue with this usage is that most regular travellers fill in what gives the least questions.I always fill in the country where I boarded the plane, whether i spent 1 hour or 10 days there is irrelevant to me. Same as with countries visited in the last 30 days, I only ever fill in one country.
What is the purpose of writing an essay of countries? To assist dear Stats NZ with a survey that is unscientific in the first place?
Hmm, Id rather make my own life simple (and while at it we should naturally scrap the arrival card asap - its a legacy dinosaur that we do not need).

Not while the majority of travellers might not be like me or my mates, I somehow doubt that we can with any accuracy use the info obtained from the arrival card for the purpose of stating numbers. The validity of the arrival card data is questionable.

NZ6 wrote:
An interesting read, if you accept from Westgate to Parakai it's a 30-minute drive without any road improvements and it's a similar time from Silverdale area, then add 10-20 years of growth around each of those areas, or if you looked at the Population of the WDHB (North Shore, West Auckland and Whangaparaoa areas) that being, 630,000 people.
https://www.health.govt.nz/new-zealand- ... temata-dhb


Having both skyjumped from the aerodrome and spent time out at Southhead (golf course) this first made me smile. The aerodrome is located in the middle of nowhere and the village a km away, Parakai, consists of a rundown pool, Black Petes grill, a four square and a bottle shop frequented by barefoot customers looking for their next fix of premixed bottles of coke and whisky.

Anyway, having thought about this I realised this Mr Lockie is a bright man making the most of what he and his family got. The change from rural zoning to Airport is bright and provides him with future opportunities. I hope he gets his way. In 20 years there is huge potential. West Auckland and large parts of North shore already has faster and more predictable access to Parakai than to present Auckland airport.
That local residents (Parakai) are a bit upset is more than understandable (people on the country side are always scared about change, any change) but I somehow doubt that their property values will change much over the coming 10 years due to potential developments at Parakai aerodrome.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3183
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:30 pm

Just wondering if anyone flown Premium Economy on the leased Eva Air 77W? As per an email received from the airline, seems that NZ have changed one of my flights from to the leased Eva Air plane and just wondering how it compares to the NZ 77W PE seat.

Also, has anyone flown into IAH on an international to domestic transfer? Seems I have just under 2 hours to connect. Would appear a bit too tight judging by my previous flights into the US but those experiences were mainly via LAX.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:12 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Does anybody know what config PR are using on the A330 to AKL? Is it the 9-abreast or 8-abreast economy? Actually, I am hunting business class config but it seams the two are linked. Any help gratefully received. After Sam Chui's review I am keen to try but only in the new config.


It's the 8 across. and 3 class config.


Thought so. Many thanks :)
Plane mad!
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:18 pm

NZ6 wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/113223106/west-auckland-airport-seeks-airport-authority-status-in-order-to-shake-rural-zoning-tag

An interesting read, if you accept from Westgate to Parakai it's a 30-minute drive without any road improvements and it's a similar time from Silverdale area, then add 10-20 years of growth around each of those areas, or if you looked at the Population of the WDHB (North Shore, West Auckland and Whangaparaoa areas) that being, 630,000 people.
https://www.health.govt.nz/new-zealand- ... temata-dhb

Add another 10-20 years of congestion into Auckland via S.H 1, 16, 18 and 20.

You can see how a West Auckland regional airport could work.

I mean, let's use the WDHB data at 630,000 people, just take a quarter of that. 157,000 that's a massive junk of people who would be closer to Parakai than AKL subject to traffic and road improvements. Also, of that, you could weigh in the average wealth of those in this area.

Not saying it will happen, I just raised this as a fantastical idea last year and actually believe there is some minor merit in it.

There were calls in the late 90's early 2000's to convert Whenuapai into an airfield for commercial services, even domestic or regional. Glad they didn't as this is now almost all residential but proves there has been an appetite for it previously, 30 years on will it happen? Could we see 3C do something like this?


I was on about the same thing some time back late last year. Agree it makes sense for an airport that can take regional jets /ATR / maybe 320 sized aircraft to offer a genuine option to AKL for northern travelers. Could even include LCA across the ditch. I would have thought that NZWP was the obvious answer but the protests were so strong from some in this forum that I thought again and think the council doesn't have the balls to pull it off so I backed off banging away at it. Either way, the need is obvious IMHO but only when we look to the medium-long term picture. Perhaps things will change between now and then.
Plane mad!
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:04 pm

MillwallSean wrote:
Having both skyjumped from the aerodrome and spent time out at Southhead (golf course) this first made me smile. The aerodrome is located in the middle of nowhere and the village a km away, Parakai, consists of a rundown pool, Black Petes grill, a four square and a bottle shop frequented by barefoot customers looking for their next fix of premixed bottles of coke and whisky.

Anyway, having thought about this I realised this Mr Lockie is a bright man making the most of what he and his family got. The change from rural zoning to Airport is bright and provides him with future opportunities. I hope he gets his way. In 20 years there is huge potential. West Auckland and large parts of North shore already has faster and more predictable access to Parakai than to present Auckland airport.
That local residents (Parakai) are a bit upset is more than understandable (people on the country side are always scared about change, any change) but I somehow doubt that their property values will change much over the coming 10 years due to potential developments at Parakai aerodrome.


First things first, I should have acknowledged their concerns and while there could be some short term drop in prices, if the airport were to become a commercial airfield (even if only regional) the long term property values would increase as there would be stronger demand for commercial space (consumer retail, aviation services, travel services etc) but also higher employment rates (jobs created by the airport) which would increase residential demand directly impacting house prices.

They'd also see massive improvements to SH16 and most likely Kahikatea Flat Road, making the area more accessible and more attractive to prospective buyers.

The fact it's in the middle of nowhere is perfect. North Shore airport is the alternative but it's more suited to Silverdale/North Shore than it is West Auckland and will quickly become chocked by residential housing and Whenuapai, well if you've been there lately, there are Townhouses already on the boundary fence.

NZ321 wrote:
I was on about the same thing some time back late last year. Agree it makes sense for an airport that can take regional jets /ATR / maybe 320 sized aircraft to offer a genuine option to AKL for northern travelers. Could even include LCA across the ditch. I would have thought that NZWP was the obvious answer but the protests were so strong from some in this forum that I thought again and think the council doesn't have the balls to pull it off so I backed off banging away at it. Either way, the need is obvious IMHO but only when we look to the medium-long term picture. Perhaps things will change between now and then.


I was a fan, but now I think the Defence will eventually sell the land to raise funds new aircraft but irrespective, in 5 years, that airport would sit in the middle of a wealthy suburb or West Auckland, it would be the next Eden Park or Speedway.

If a second airport is to work, it needs to be accessible to more than one part of Auckland, in this case, it's North and West Auckland. It also needs to be beyond the current urban sprawl. I recall, as a child doing a day trip to Albany, and Holidaying in the Whangaparaoa area.

Will Helenville be the same in 20-30 years. Perhaps, but early planning could mean land and developers can work around what is proposed.

This could even be, flights NZPI-NZWN on an ATR, for starters, maybe:

NZPI-NZWN: 0700-0815
NZWN-NZPI 0845-1000

NZPI-NZWN: 1600-1715
NZWN-NZPI 1745-1900
 
NYKiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:41 am

INDIANICWORLD.......

Ive connected through IAH several times. Immigration is usually quiet think theres an Asian flight that came in round the same time but through relatively quickly....

Transferring is good all under one roof little backwards after bag drop and then go up to do secuirty but in all 2 hours should be fine.

Ive always done this on one ticket so never had to recheck bags so dunno if that applies to you or not.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:02 am

NYKiwi wrote:
INDIANICWORLD.......

Ive connected through IAH several times. Immigration is usually quiet think theres an Asian flight that came in round the same time but through relatively quickly....

Transferring is good all under one roof little backwards after bag drop and then go up to do secuirty but in all 2 hours should be fine.

Ive always done this on one ticket so never had to recheck bags so dunno if that applies to you or not.


Thanks for that info. Much appreciated.

It will be one ticket also so hopefully it works just as smoothly on this occasion.
 
nz2
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:34 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
Just wondering if anyone flown Premium Economy on the leased Eva Air 77W? As per an email received from the airline, seems that NZ have changed one of my flights from to the leased Eva Air plane and just wondering how it compares to the NZ 77W PE seat.

Also, has anyone flown into IAH on an international to domestic transfer? Seems I have just under 2 hours to connect. Would appear a bit too tight judging by my previous flights into the US but those experiences were mainly via LAX.


I flew the Eva plane to Hawaii return in PE last October. The seats are cloth, pitch not as great as NZ plus the AVOD selection was extremely limited, maybe 2 or 3 movies you could watch with balance being Asian movies. It may well have been updated by now. By and large it was ok (video aside) but makes you appreciate the NZ PE hard product, the service and food of course was pretty good being NZ crew
 
Motorhussy
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:11 am

This stuff article gives a good account of the battle for New York between QF and NZ.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/113341362/air-new-zealand-and-qantas-neck-and-neck-in-race-to-new-york

At the announcement of the new Dreamliner order Air New Zealand chief operations integrity and standards officer captain David Morgan told Stuff the plane most likely to get Air New Zealand to the Big Apple would be new 787-9s fitted with the GEnx engines.
come visit the south pacific
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:15 am

nz2 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
Just wondering if anyone flown Premium Economy on the leased Eva Air 77W? As per an email received from the airline, seems that NZ have changed one of my flights from to the leased Eva Air plane and just wondering how it compares to the NZ 77W PE seat.

Also, has anyone flown into IAH on an international to domestic transfer? Seems I have just under 2 hours to connect. Would appear a bit too tight judging by my previous flights into the US but those experiences were mainly via LAX.


I flew the Eva plane to Hawaii return in PE last October. The seats are cloth, pitch not as great as NZ plus the AVOD selection was extremely limited, maybe 2 or 3 movies you could watch with balance being Asian movies. It may well have been updated by now. By and large it was ok (video aside) but makes you appreciate the NZ PE hard product, the service and food of course was pretty good being NZ crew


Thanks for that. I had a feeling that the AVOD might well have more of a limited selection so I’m hopeful it may have been updated since.

I read that the seat pitch is 38’ instead of up to 41’ on the NZ aircraft which is a pity but still seems about standard for most PE products I guess.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:50 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
This stuff article gives a good account of the battle for New York between QF and NZ.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/113341362/air-new-zealand-and-qantas-neck-and-neck-in-race-to-new-york

At the announcement of the new Dreamliner order Air New Zealand chief operations integrity and standards officer captain David Morgan told Stuff the plane most likely to get Air New Zealand to the Big Apple would be new 787-9s fitted with the GEnx engines.


This is a manufactured article if I've ever seen one.

Watch the video for clues... NZ is looking to open premium markets by making New Zealand more accessible through direct flights, they're looking to make these flights possible by using an aircraft which is configured to target the premium customer over share volume of customers meaning the aircraft is lighter and can fly further into these markets.

I mean, an idiot can work out, NZ would offer a one-stop flight via AKL to SYD and QF already has a 1 stop flight to SYD from NYC using their new 789's. If NZ was to open this and target Ozzie bound premium customers knowing QF will go direct within 5 years, they'd be mad. There will most likely be a few customers who have the pip with QF/AA or be Star Gold and elect NZ via AKL, but they'll be the exception, not the norm.

I'm not sure how this means it's in a neck and neck race with Qantas....

If this author is trying to suggest it's a race for the bragging rights on the first non-stop flight then I'd strongly suggest he has no idea who Christopher Luxon is and how he operates.

Luxon clearly stated their immediate focus is building frequency into ORD, IAH, TPE, EZE and I guess ICN, which wasn't mentioned but was most likely an oversight vs being an exemption.

Essentially, the author is highlighting that both QF and NZ are eyeing direct flights to NYC from their home Hub. Instead of covering what this means to us, he's made up a "race" and labelled it "neck and neck" should we call it what it is, click bait.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:29 pm

Mainly military but still NZ related.

The C-130J-30 has been chosen as the preferred replacement for the C-130H. With the B757 replacement down the road a bit.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/sup ... red-option

11 June 2019
Super Hercules selected as preferred option

Ron Mark
Hon Ron Mark

Defence

Defence Minister Ron Mark has announced the selection of the C-130J-30 Super Hercules as the preferred option for the replacement of the aging C-130H aircraft.

The replacement of the five Hercules transport aircraft is the highest priority project within the Coalition Government’s Defence Capability Plan 2019.

Cabinet has decided to seek detailed costing information for a replacement aircraft, the C-130J-30 Super Hercules.

“The current Hercules have served us well since the 1960s, but they have reached the end of the road, and suitable and proven replacement aircraft will need to be sourced,” says Ron Mark. ”The current fleet is increasing in cost to maintain, and is taking longer to put through maintenance.”

“After considering the range of military air transport aircraft carefully, the Super Hercules has been selected as it offers the necessary range and payload capability as well as fully meeting NZDF’s requirements,” says Ron Mark.

A price will be sought through the United States’ Foreign Military Sale process for the C-130J-30 Super Hercules, manufactured by Lockheed Martin.

The C-130J is a proven aircraft, with more than 400 C-130Js having been delivered to over 21 nations, including the United States, United Kingdom, Australia and Canada.

“It is used by key defence partners and carries a greater payload faster and further than the current fleet, with no loss of ability to land where our current Hercules are deployed.

“Tactical air transport capability is one of the highest value assets available to New Zealand, offering huge utility to the community and nation, enabling movement of personnel and cargo around the country, the South Pacific, down to Antarctica and all around the globe.

“We need a proven performer, and this aircraft is tried and tested. We cannot take risks with what is one of our most critical military capabilities,” says Ron Mark.

No final contract decision has been made, on either platform numbers, detailed costs, or funding and Budget implications. A Project Implementation Business Case is scheduled to be progressed to Cabinet next year, where these matters will be considered. The Defence Capability Plan 2019 noted that the estimated cost would be more than $1 billion.

Note for Editors

The procurement process aligns with the findings of the Review of Defence Procurement Policies and Practices For Major Capability Projects, undertaken by Sir Brian Roche. A copy of this review can be found here:

https://defence.govt.nz/publications/pu ... y-projects

Ron Mark’s comments on this can be found here: https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/def ... w-released
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:31 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Mainly military but still NZ related.

The C-130J-30 has been chosen as the preferred replacement for the C-130H. With the B757 replacement down the road a bit.

[/quote]

Wonder if the 757s could be replaced by a couple of ex-NZ 77E's by then?
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:45 am

zkncj wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Mainly military but still NZ related.

The C-130J-30 has been chosen as the preferred replacement for the C-130H. With the B757 replacement down the road a bit.



Wonder if the 757s could be replaced by a couple of ex-NZ 77E's by then?


I expect the competition for that will be between the B767 and A330.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:40 am

zkncj wrote:
Wonder if the 757s could be replaced by a couple of ex-NZ 77E's by then?


ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
I expect the competition for that will be between the B767 and A330.


Why a 772? That's a whole lot of aeroplane! Outside of it being an NZ registered aircraft why take an ex NZ model? Is there an assumption NZ will sell it to the defence cheaper than at market value aka "mates rates"? There will be plenty of 777's around the world if they wanted that aircraft.

The 757 is a personal transport and VIP transport aircraft, the had the 727 and upgraded capacity and range with the 757. Not sure why they need a widebody?

Couldn't they use Airbus A321 (XL) or (XLR) or even a 737-MAX?

You'll get the 3,500-4,000nm range and seating for a couple of hundred and be a heck of a lot more fuel efficient than many older birds and will be able to land on or leave from much shorter pacific runways.

Given they've gone for the P-8 which originated from the 737MAX family... I think there's a simple replacement on the cards when the time is right.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:00 am

For a strategic transport the cargo door will be a requirement. The A330 MRTT and B767-2C come with that as standard. As well as other military tweaks.

Yes you could get a custom mod done on an A320NEO or B737MAX. But when you've already got two options that will already be in use by allies it probably makes a bit more economic sense to go with what they've got. Like Aus has the A330 MRTT so heavy maintenance costs could be shared with them.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:39 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
For a strategic transport the cargo door will be a requirement. The A330 MRTT and B767-2C come with that as standard. As well as other military tweaks.

Yes you could get a custom mod done on an A320NEO or B737MAX. But when you've already got two options that will already be in use by allies it probably makes a bit more economic sense to go with what they've got. Like Aus has the A330 MRTT so heavy maintenance costs could be shared with them.


Perhaps, wouldn't be the first 737 built with a cargo door though would it.

Just can't go past the 767 being so old! and the A330 or 777 being so big.

Could the 797 be another option?
 
torin
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:17 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
For a strategic transport the cargo door will be a requirement. The A330 MRTT and B767-2C come with that as standard. As well as other military tweaks.

Yes you could get a custom mod done on an A320NEO or B737MAX. But when you've already got two options that will already be in use by allies it probably makes a bit more economic sense to go with what they've got. Like Aus has the A330 MRTT so heavy maintenance costs could be shared with them.


except none of the current MRTT operators have taken up the cargo door option, so not exactly standard

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1026701
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:38 am

torin wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
For a strategic transport the cargo door will be a requirement. The A330 MRTT and B767-2C come with that as standard. As well as other military tweaks.

Yes you could get a custom mod done on an A320NEO or B737MAX. But when you've already got two options that will already be in use by allies it probably makes a bit more economic sense to go with what they've got. Like Aus has the A330 MRTT so heavy maintenance costs could be shared with them.


except none of the current MRTT operators have taken up the cargo door option, so not exactly standard

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1026701


Huh. Well I was wrong on that. Puts the B767 in the front then I would expect. It does also make it more likely a custom solution on a narrowbody would be chosen.
 
torin
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:07 am

NZ6 wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
For a strategic transport the cargo door will be a requirement. The A330 MRTT and B767-2C come with that as standard. As well as other military tweaks.

Yes you could get a custom mod done on an A320NEO or B737MAX. But when you've already got two options that will already be in use by allies it probably makes a bit more economic sense to go with what they've got. Like Aus has the A330 MRTT so heavy maintenance costs could be shared with them.


Perhaps, wouldn't be the first 737 built with a cargo door though would it.

Just can't go past the 767 being so old! and the A330 or 777 being so big.

Could the 797 be another option?


But its not really - still being produced in pretty decent numbers thanks to the KC45 and its new tech:

Boeing's "NewGen Tanker" is based on the 767-200 with an improved version of the KC-10 refueling boom, and cockpit displays from the 787
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:16 am

torin wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
For a strategic transport the cargo door will be a requirement. The A330 MRTT and B767-2C come with that as standard. As well as other military tweaks.

Yes you could get a custom mod done on an A320NEO or B737MAX. But when you've already got two options that will already be in use by allies it probably makes a bit more economic sense to go with what they've got. Like Aus has the A330 MRTT so heavy maintenance costs could be shared with them.


Perhaps, wouldn't be the first 737 built with a cargo door though would it.

Just can't go past the 767 being so old! and the A330 or 777 being so big.

Could the 797 be another option?


But its not really - still being produced in pretty decent numbers thanks to the KC45 and its new tech:

Boeing's "NewGen Tanker" is based on the 767-200 with an improved version of the KC-10 refueling boom, and cockpit displays from the 787


Passenger variants aren't. They're building tankers and transport aircraft for military use. I realise that's the topic here but for how the NZDF uses them, a few pellets of cargo and transporting personnel....

Both 727 and 757 are ex-commercial aircraft. By memory, the 757 are ex, Air Canada.

Given, the fleet size, 2. The fact they have very little to cart around.. I'm sensing a narrowbody aircraft would be selected.

Australia uses the 737 but also has the Globemaster for the real heavy equipment, stuff we typically send via sea.

I can't see Boeing having much issue adding a cargo door into the 737MAX aircraft if this isn't already done, like this but on the MAX

Image
 
ZKNCI
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:00 am

About time the Hercs have a successor! Guess you have to replace a Herc with a Herc, the low-risk option on a tight budget.
NZ6 wrote:

Both 727 and 757 are ex-commercial aircraft. By memory, the 757 are ex, Air Canada.
Given, the fleet size, 2. The fact they have very little to cart around.. I'm sensing a narrowbody aircraft would be selected.
Australia uses the 737 but also has the Globemaster for the real heavy equipment, stuff we typically send via sea.
I can't see Boeing having much issue adding a cargo door into the 737MAX aircraft if this isn't already done, like this but on the MAX

The 757s are both ex-Transavia, NZ7571 being PH-TKA and NZ7572 PH-TKB, both 1993-build, delivered to the RNZAF 2003.
The three 727s were ex-United, NZ7271 was N7435U, NZ7272 N7438U and NZ7273 N7436U, all 1968-build, delivered to the RNZAF 1981 and retired 2003 (NZ7271 and 7272. 7273 was a parts frame).
NZ6 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Wonder if the 757s could be replaced by a couple of ex-NZ 77E's by then?

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
I expect the competition for that will be between the B767 and A330.

Why a 772? That's a whole lot of aeroplane!
The 757 is a personal transport and VIP transport aircraft, the had the 727 and upgraded capacity and range with the 757. Not sure why they need a widebody?
Couldn't they use Airbus A321 (XL) or (XLR) or even a 737-MAX?

I'd agree a narrowbody is more likely. It's hard enough for defence to get funding, I can't see them buying new KC-46s or A330MRTTs to replace the smaller 757s, and there's no justification for 777s (if they're going to go that big, get something which can take NH90s...).
NZ6 wrote:
Given they've gone for the P-8 which originated from the 737MAX family... I think there's a simple replacement on the cards when the time is right.

P-8s are based on the NG. Which makes C-40As more likely than MAXs (or, rather, conversions of second hand BBJs or 737-700s . Several of the RAF Wedgetails are to be converted second-hand frames, so a C-40 should be no challenge!). A321LR maybe, but buying new and no cargo door.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:44 am

ZKNCI wrote:
About time the Hercs have a successor! Guess you have to replace a Herc with a Herc, the low-risk option on a tight budget.
NZ6 wrote:

Both 727 and 757 are ex-commercial aircraft. By memory, the 757 are ex, Air Canada.
Given, the fleet size, 2. The fact they have very little to cart around.. I'm sensing a narrowbody aircraft would be selected.
Australia uses the 737 but also has the Globemaster for the real heavy equipment, stuff we typically send via sea.
I can't see Boeing having much issue adding a cargo door into the 737MAX aircraft if this isn't already done, like this but on the MAX

The 757s are both ex-Transavia, NZ7571 being PH-TKA and NZ7572 PH-TKB, both 1993-build, delivered to the RNZAF 2003.
The three 727s were ex-United, NZ7271 was N7435U, NZ7272 N7438U and NZ7273 N7436U, all 1968-build, delivered to the RNZAF 1981 and retired 2003 (NZ7271 and 7272. 7273 was a parts frame).
NZ6 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Wonder if the 757s could be replaced by a couple of ex-NZ 77E's by then?

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
I expect the competition for that will be between the B767 and A330.

Why a 772? That's a whole lot of aeroplane!
The 757 is a personal transport and VIP transport aircraft, the had the 727 and upgraded capacity and range with the 757. Not sure why they need a widebody?
Couldn't they use Airbus A321 (XL) or (XLR) or even a 737-MAX?

I'd agree a narrowbody is more likely. It's hard enough for defence to get funding, I can't see them buying new KC-46s or A330MRTTs to replace the smaller 757s, and there's no justification for 777s (if they're going to go that big, get something which can take NH90s...).
NZ6 wrote:
Given they've gone for the P-8 which originated from the 737MAX family... I think there's a simple replacement on the cards when the time is right.

P-8s are based on the NG. Which makes C-40As more likely than MAXs (or, rather, conversions of second hand BBJs or 737-700s . Several of the RAF Wedgetails are to be converted second-hand frames, so a C-40 should be no challenge!). A321LR maybe, but buying new and no cargo door.


Thanks for the clarification on a few points there
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:14 am

They should split the transport plane from the VIP. Just get a second-hand Global express ot G550 for around 15mill and configure it to your own requirements. If they still want a second use of the VIP, make it configurable as a MediVac aircraft at short notice
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:29 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
Just wondering if anyone flown Premium Economy on the leased Eva Air 77W? As per an email received from the airline, seems that NZ have changed one of my flights from to the leased Eva Air plane and just wondering how it compares to the NZ 77W PE seat.

Also, has anyone flown into IAH on an international to domestic transfer? Seems I have just under 2 hours to connect. Would appear a bit too tight judging by my previous flights into the US but those experiences were mainly via LAX.


I was through IAH last year and was out the front with my bag in under 20min from stepping off ZK-NZM. Even LAX isn't the issue it once was though.
Secondly, I flew ZK-OKT on the 6th in U AKL-LAX and I was pleasantly surprised, the only difference in the IFE was the lack of ordering food/drink from the IFE and no WiFi, but if you use the call button on the IFE they will come (don't use the armrest call button they will ignore/not receive it.) . I have flown BR ORD-TPE so I know the BR IFE is rubbish compared to any other Asian carrier and was expecting this.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:13 pm

The B757 serves a unique purpose similar to the AS B732C/B73GC with the capability of having half freight/medical/disaster relief supplies and half passenger loads. I've seen the B757s loading after the CHC/Kaikoura/Seddon earthquakes at WLG in combi mode. IMHO the replacement will also be a combi mode
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:06 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
They should split the transport plane from the VIP. Just get a second-hand Global express ot G550 for around 15mill and configure it to your own requirements. If they still want a second use of the VIP, make it configurable as a MediVac aircraft at short notice


I can't see the NZ public accepting the purchase of specialist VIP aircraft for Defence Chiefs or Diplomates.

I cannot think of anyone important enough in NZ to use a private jet like this, the PM flies frequently on commercial services with members of the DPS. Foreign leaders who need this type of transport typically supply their own, we've seen this with the US President.

There are times when the Defence flies large groups of dignitaries around, the same aircraft can transport smaller groups but along with this, transporting large groups of Defence personnel is where you can start justifying the multi-use aircraft.

For larger groups, look at the leases NZ has done with the Singapore Defence for many years. Flying troops between SIN-ROC for training.

As for timelines, it's at the backend of a decade away, without delays etc which will inevitably occur....

Page 30 of the Defence Capability Plan 2019
https://defence.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/ ... n-2019.pdf

Future Strategic Air Mobility
179. Operations in the Pacific and globally will require an air transport option for the movement of personnel, equipment and stores over long ranges. The eventual withdrawal from service of the current Boeing 757 fleet will allow for the procurement of a strategic airlift capability that meets capability requirements across a range of tasks.

Indicative dates:
Industry engagement commences – 2021
Request for tender – 2024
Introduction into Service – 2028
Indicative capital cost:
From $300m–$600m
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 pm

777ER wrote:
The B757 serves a unique purpose similar to the AS B732C/B73GC with the capability of having half freight/medical/disaster relief supplies and half passenger loads. I've seen the B757s loading after the CHC/Kaikoura/Seddon earthquakes at WLG in combi mode. IMHO the replacement will also be a combi mode


As I just posted above,

Future Strategic Air Mobility
179. Operations in the Pacific and globally will require an air transport option for the movement of personnel, equipment and stores over long ranges. The eventual withdrawal from service of the current Boeing 757 fleet will allow for the procurement of a strategic airlift capability that meets capability requirements across a range of tasks.


A Combi option would likely be a must. I don't think we can exclude any current commercial aircraft at this stage.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:25 am

A couple of interesting TradeMe advertisements from Air Chathams:

A Convair fuselage up for sale: https://trademe.nz/marketplace/building ... 2185236426

Hiring ground handling staff: https://trademe.nz/jobs/transport-logis ... 2170566129

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