• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 18
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 8607
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:09 pm

Welcome to Indian Aviation Thread June 2019. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1421469
Forum Moderator
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:26 pm

Since an investigation is brewing on bilateral rights to Qatar, Dubai, and Sharjah (see the link below), I suspect that there is little chance of an increase in the bilateral rights despite it being 100% utilized (pre-Jet collapse).

What this also means is that with capacity restricted for the foreseeable future (my guess would be at least a year), those airlines that get Jet's slots to Dubai, Sharjah and Qatar are set to benefit the most. We already note that Air India received a windfall 50% of Jet's rights to Dubai. Let's see who gets the balance. Note that Vistara has applied for DEL-DXB but Indigo and Spicejet could hog all the remaining DXB slots. Methinks the Indian Government should allocate 1 slot each to Indigo, Spicejet, Vistara, and Go, and call it a day.

https://www.financialexpress.com/india- ... m/1595198/
Last edited by edealinfo on Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
binayak
Posts: 959
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:30 pm

Recently there was a list of destinations planned by 6E for the a321neo .
I wonder why didn't they choose PVG. There are only 2 daily flights from Delhi and no one flies from Mumbai .
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:34 pm

binayak wrote:
Recently there was a list of destinations planned by 6E for the a321neo .
I wonder why didn't they choose PVG. There are only 2 daily flights from Delhi and no one flies from Mumbai .


I guess Shanghai is the Chinese mainland equivalent of Hong Kong, correct? Isn't is difficult to get commercially viable slots there? Wasn't this the reason that Jet's flight (via PVG) to SFO failed?
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2099
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:44 pm

SG's next intl destination is going to be Singapore
 
binayak
Posts: 959
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:55 pm

edealinfo wrote:
binayak wrote:
Recently there was a list of destinations planned by 6E for the a321neo .
I wonder why didn't they choose PVG. There are only 2 daily flights from Delhi and no one flies from Mumbai .


I guess Shanghai is the Chinese mainland equivalent of Hong Kong, correct? Isn't is difficult to get commercially viable slots there? Wasn't this the reason that Jet's flight (via PVG) to SFO failed?


PVG isn't maxed out like HKG . The problem is the Chinese don't give proper slots to Indian carriers . That's one of the reasons why BOM-PVG-SFO failed .
However now the case is different . Unless Indian carriers have more flights to China , BASAs won't be increased and the Chinese know this so they won't deny Indigo proper slots .
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:04 pm

anshabhi wrote:
SG's next intl destination is going to be Singapore


from where? BOM? or Pune (to deprive Vistara from taking Pune - SIN as planned)?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:07 pm

binayak wrote:

PVG isn't maxed out like HKG .


When would Jet's HKG slots, if not utilized, revert to the HKG airport slot coordinator? How many daily flights did Jet have from India to HKG, and from which cities in India?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:11 pm

I have asked this before but haven't received an answer. Which airports in India are slot constrained other than BOM and DEL? I would imagine it would be Pune next, then GOA (both are small airports), then Madras (which is why Air Asia selected BLR over MAA).

And, what is the situation in AMD and CCU? Are there any other airports where the slot situation is also tight?
 
binayak
Posts: 959
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:12 pm

edealinfo wrote:
binayak wrote:

PVG isn't maxed out like HKG .


When would Jet's HKG slots, if not utilized, revert to the HKG airport slot coordinator? How many daily flights did Jet have from India to HKG, and from which cities in India?


I think HKG slots will go back in the upcoming weeks . The slots go back if unused for 80% of the quarter as per IATA rules.
Jet had 2 daily flights from DEL and BOM (1 each ) with a total of 692 one way seats at the max.

On a side note, now CX enjoys a complete monopoly at BOM and to a great extent at DEL. Of course SG will launch BOM HKG with their " SpiceBiz " but absolute zero corporates will prefer that over CX.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
airboss787
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:31 pm

Looks like KLM is finally going daily to BOM with changed timings by November. Using the link below, which seems to say they are adding a daily flight over and above the 3 weekly. This seems wrong. It just seems like a daily flight starting October taking over the Jet timings.

https://simpleflying.com/jet-airways-amsterdam-slots/
Star Alliance Gold
 
x1234
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:41 pm

The Chinese CAAC (flight allocations) will want reciprocity with India so any slots given to Indian carriers will have to have the same amount of slots for Chinese carriers landing in India. I know MU (China Eastern) wants to launch BOM (Mumbai) but can't (Only Air China to PEK 3x weekly & CX daily to HKG (different bilateral's) is in BOM). This is mainly to feed their Y seats on their vast Chinese/South Korea/Japan/AUS/NZ and mainly North America network that would go unfilled during the low season (they fly 3x to BNE, 10x to SYD, MEL, 11x to YVR, daily to AKL, YYZ, SFO, 5x to ORD and double daily to LAX & JFK). I know for a fact that China Eastern's prices are competitive and they have low prices close in on seats that would otherwise be unfulfilled.
 
binayak
Posts: 959
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:53 pm

x1234 wrote:
The Chinese CAAC (flight allocations) will want reciprocity with India so any slots given to Indian carriers will have to have the same amount of slots for Chinese carriers landing in India. I know MU (China Eastern) wants to launch BOM (Mumbai) but can't (Only Air China to PEK 3x weekly & CX daily to HKG (different bilateral's) is in BOM). This is mainly to feed their Y seats on their vast Chinese/South Korea/Japan/AUS/NZ and mainly North America network that would go unfilled during the low season (they fly 3x to BNE, 10x to SYD, MEL, 11x to YVR, daily to AKL, YYZ, SFO, 5x to ORD and double daily to LAX & JFK). I know for a fact that China Eastern's prices are competitive and they have low prices close in on seats that would otherwise be unfulfilled.



Bilaterals ask for 42 weeklies each way by each country. Chinese carriers have added 42 weeklies but Indian carriers haven't. Now govt of India won't increase seats unless Indian carriers complete filling 80% of the current seats i e have at least 33 weeklies to China. The reason Indian carriers are not able to expand to China is not getting favorable slots.
MU is free to enter Mumbai but for that they've to cut one of their flights to other Indian destinations . No restrictions on destination.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:37 pm

binayak wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Now govt of India won't increase seats unless Indian carriers complete filling 80% of the current seats.


This is official Government policy but when does the government ever follow its written rules? Indian airlines had over 80% seat or frequency utilization, as applicable to Qatar, Dubai, Sharjah, etc., (pre-Jet collapse) but nevertheless, the Government chose NOT to follow its own policy and increase its bilateral. So, why do they have written policy rules in the first place if they are woefully disregarded?
Just another example of the nonsensical world in India.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:48 pm

airboss787 wrote:
Looks like KLM is finally going daily to BOM with changed timings by November. Using the link below, which seems to say they are adding a daily flight over and above the 3 weekly. This seems wrong. It just seems like a daily flight starting October taking over the Jet timings.

https://simpleflying.com/jet-airways-amsterdam-slots/


Kudos to skyteam for taking the following actions post the Jet collapse:

1. KLM: Increase capacity to DEL (by using 77W)
2. KLM: Increase BOM from 3X to 7X
3. Virgin: Start new 7X weekly to BOM
4. KLM: Start new 3X to BLR
5. Delta: Start new 7X JFK-BOM

Wow!!!!

What's left?
1. Maybe they should increase BLR from 3X to 5X?
2. Maybe start 5X to MAA?

That would close out pretty much a nice replacement for Jet.

I am sorry to say that Indian carriers couldn't provide the replacement capacity.

As for British Airways, looks like they are increasing capacity to BLR (larger aircraft) and adding 4X weekly flights to BOM. A weak response by OneWorld in my opinion. Heck, where is the AA flight from Chicago to Bombay?

As for STAR, their response is pathetic. Nothing new (the SFO to DEL UA flight I believe was announced before Jet's total collapse). Lufthansa [a decent presence in India] could have stepped in to counter Skyteam but they have failed miserably as well.

check mate and 5 stars to Skyteam. Caliguy too has won, and congrats on picking the right alliance!
Last edited by edealinfo on Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:57 pm

binayak wrote:

I think HKG slots will go back in the upcoming weeks . The slots go back if unused for 80% of the quarter as per IATA rules.
Jet had 2 daily flights from DEL and BOM (1 each ) with a total of 692 one way seats at the max.


The Government should take the blame for this. Give it to anyone that has spare aircraft and ready to serve HKG (even if it is only Spicejet). Regrettably, I doubt Vistara can start HKG at this time unless they start using one of the 5 aircraft that's coming is very soon (my hunch is that they would rather use the aircraft to do short rotations to BOM to grab slots, rather than longer missions that will not help in slot grabbing at BOM).

Indigo probably can serve HKG as well and so too Air India.

My best guess, if the Govt acts soon, would be 1 daily to SpiceJet and 1 to Air India. More likely they won't make a decision and Indian carriers will lose the HKG slots.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:10 pm

It seems from the link below, that Kannur Airport (the newest airport in Kerala that has been operational for less than a year) is raking in the moolah for airlines in terms of yield compared to nearby Kerala airports.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 401081.ece
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:21 pm

edealinfo wrote:
As for British Airways, looks like they are increasing capacity to BLR (larger aircraft) and adding 4X weekly flights to BOM. A weak response by OneWorld in my opinion. Heck, where is the AA flight from Chicago to Bombay?

As for STAR, their response is pathetic. Nothing new (the SFO to DEL UA flight I believe was announced before Jet's total collapse). Lufthansa [a decent presence in India] could have stepped in to counter Skyteam but they have failed miserably as well.

check mate and 5 stars to Skyteam. Caliguy too has won, and congrats on picking the right alliance!
Huh? OW and *A have had the lead in India for quite sometime. QR/CX and SQ by themselves run laps around Skyteam in India. While these recent adds by Skyteam are impressive they really went to full a void for the DL/VS/KL/AF Joint Venture.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:28 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
Huh? OW and *A have had the lead in India for quite sometime. QR/CX and SQ by themselves run laps around Skyteam in India. While these recent adds by Skyteam are impressive they really went to full a void for the DL/VS/KL/AF Joint Venture.


My point is that Skyteam pretty much has filled the void left by Jet when OW and *A had the opportunity to eat into it. They failed. Opportunities like these don't come too often.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 17684
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:19 pm

edealinfo wrote:

My point is that Skyteam pretty much has filled the void left by Jet when OW and *A had the opportunity to eat into it. They failed. Opportunities like these don't come too often.

This I agree with. Partnering and direct flight helped Skyteam.

Star alliance partnered with AI and that is that.

OW missed an opportunity. They added what 3 flights?

Oh well, time for a UA SFO-BOM flight.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:48 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Oh well, time for a UA SFO-BOM flight.

Lightsaber


1. Why is a hypothetical UA SFO-BOM flight better than a SFO -BLR flight?

2. If, hypothetically, Delta had to add a second direct flight to India, would it be JFK- DEL or JFK - BLR?

3. If AA had to start a flight to India, what would be the logical origin and destination airports?

4. What is BLR's largest, or most profitable, US destination airport?

5. If HYD was to get a US carrier, or another European carrier, which airlines are reasonable potential contenders?

6. For how many more years will Calcutta have NO direct service to Europe until the population reaches such a mass that a flight becomes inevitable?

7. Isn't it odd that none of the SkyTeam partners DL/AF/KL/VS have a presence is MAA (Chennai)? Which of these carriers would likely start service first.....when this City can no longer be ignored?
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:21 pm

edealinfo wrote:
1. Why is a hypothetical UA SFO-BOM flight better than a SFO -BLR flight?
SFO-BLR is just too far with the Himalaya diversion needed and none of UA planes could make that flight. If/when(???) UA does BLR it will be from Newark. So it only leaves SFO-BOM as possible.

edealinfo wrote:
2. If, hypothetically, Delta had to add a second direct flight to India, would it be JFK- DEL or JFK - BLR?
DL is too conservative to launch BLR before DEL. Plus UA would respond in kind if DL did BLR from JFK.

edealinfo wrote:
3. If AA had to start a flight to India, what would be the logical origin and destination airports?
AA said PHL and the usual guesses would be DEL/BOM. I still have my doubts as to whether they attempt this. They have so many other problems right now that they need to sort out and starting up India is not something you want to do with other distractions.

edealinfo wrote:
4. What is BLR's largest, or most profitable, US destination airport?
Largest is SFO. No one could say for profit.

edealinfo wrote:
5. If HYD was to get a US carrier, or another European carrier, which airlines are reasonable potential contenders?
Never for a US carrier. I'd guess LH would relaunch that before AF/KL.

edealinfo wrote:
6. For how many more years will Calcutta have NO direct service to Europe until the population reaches such a mass that a flight becomes inevitable?
Both BA and LH have flown here in the past, so who knows when or if they come back.
 
VTORD
Posts: 520
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:28 am

airboss787 wrote:
Looks like KLM is finally going daily to BOM with changed timings by November. Using the link below, which seems to say they are adding a daily flight over and above the 3 weekly. This seems wrong. It just seems like a daily flight starting October taking over the Jet timings.

https://simpleflying.com/jet-airways-amsterdam-slots/

Here is another link discussing the same:
https://livefromalounge.boardingarea.co ... amsterdam/

Detailed explanation of how the gradual increase will happen.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:47 am

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
1. Why is a hypothetical UA SFO-BOM flight better than a SFO -BLR flight?
SFO-BLR is just too far with the Himalaya diversion needed and none of UA planes could make that flight. If/when(???) UA does BLR it will be from Newark. So it only leaves SFO-BOM as possible.

edealinfo wrote:
2. If, hypothetically, Delta had to add a second direct flight to India, would it be JFK- DEL or JFK - BLR?
DL is too conservative to launch BLR before DEL. Plus UA would respond in kind if DL did BLR from JFK.

edealinfo wrote:
3. If AA had to start a flight to India, what would be the logical origin and destination airports?
AA said PHL and the usual guesses would be DEL/BOM. I still have my doubts as to whether they attempt this. They have so many other problems right now that they need to sort out and starting up India is not something you want to do with other distractions.

edealinfo wrote:
4. What is BLR's largest, or most profitable, US destination airport?
Largest is SFO. No one could say for profit.

edealinfo wrote:
5. If HYD was to get a US carrier, or another European carrier, which airlines are reasonable potential contenders?
Never for a US carrier. I'd guess LH would relaunch that before AF/KL.

edealinfo wrote:
6. For how many more years will Calcutta have NO direct service to Europe until the population reaches such a mass that a flight becomes inevitable?
Both BA and LH have flown here in the past, so who knows when or if they come back.


I can't tell you how appreciate I am of your taking the time to provide a thoughtful and logical reply and for responding to all my questions. Thank you!
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:30 am

SpiceJet is hiring (walk in interview) and their requirements below offer good humor.

"They (candidates) should carry a pleasing personality with an unblemished complexion and good body language, excellent verbal and written communication skills in both Hindi and English, confidence and ability to handle passengers and provide only the best customer service.

The female candidates should have a minimum of 155 cm height and weight in proportion to the height. As per the requirements, candidates have to bring their updated CV along with a passport size and full-length photograph (in formals). Applicants must come in formals (half sleeve shirt, knee-length skirt, blazer or jacket (as per the weather condition), stockings, close court footwear and a watch)."

https://www.timesnownews.com/business-e ... ere/429317
 
Sindhuputra
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:09 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:00 am

Singapore to India capacity and frequency has gone down dramatically .

Sin-del used to be 3x daily 9w, 3x daily AI, 2x daily Sq ... now down to 2xSQ and 1XAI

Similarly BOM 17 weeklies in Sq and 7 on AI is all that is left

Understand the ex ANZ Qantas feed into 9Wave would have now moved to scoot ( all the way) or MH etc

Still, room for somebody like 6E/UK to bring in 3-4 dailies
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 17684
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:15 am

edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Oh well, time for a UA SFO-BOM flight.

Lightsaber


1. Why is a hypothetical UA SFO-BOM flight better than a SFO -BLR flight?

2. If, hypothetically, Delta had to add a second direct flight to India, would it be JFK- DEL or JFK - BLR?

3. If AA had to start a flight to India, what would be the logical origin and destination airports?

4. What is BLR's largest, or most profitable, US destination airport?

5. If HYD was to get a US carrier, or another European carrier, which airlines are reasonable potential contenders?

6. For how many more years will Calcutta have NO direct service to Europe until the population reaches such a mass that a flight becomes inevitable?

7. Isn't it odd that none of the SkyTeam partners DL/AF/KL/VS have a presence is MAA (Chennai)? Which of these carriers would likely start service first.....when this City can no longer be ignored?

1. My perception of demand hubbed through SFO. UA will fly whichever makes more economic sense. It also has to do with AI's base to hub in BOM for UA.

2. I actually don't know what DL might fly. I think there is more latent West coast US demand due to EU3 service to India where DL isn't as likely to fill a direct as UA.

3. I do not see AA having the demand for a direct to India.

4. BLR does outsourcing which has a concentration in New York City, Dallas, San Francisco/silicon valley, and Los Angeles. But yield doesn't appear that great. Only JFK, SFO, or LAX might have enough premium demand. ULH is highly dependent on paid J.

5..HYD isn't ready for a US3 carrier in J demand. For EU3... I'm not aware of enough bilateral rights to make this happen.

6. Calcutta has low end demand. That means local hubbing.

7. Yes. MAA should see Skyteam. But bilateral rights are precious and will thus go to high J cities.

There is no inherent right to service when limited bilateral make serving loyal customers more profitable than new. It creates risk adversion. Limited slots at EU3 hubs will be allocated on profit.

ULH is big premium to big premium. Only DEL and BOM meet that definition today.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
sabby
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:55 am

lightsaber wrote:
4. BLR does outsourcing which has a concentration in New York City, Dallas, San Francisco/silicon valley, and Los Angeles. But yield doesn't appear that great. Only JFK, SFO, or LAX might have enough premium demand. ULH is highly dependent on paid J.
Lightsaber


Actually, very little traffic of BLR is for outsourcing as they tend to travel rarely. The majority of the traffic is from software product companies and finance back offices. As per my information, yield is pretty good for most part and there's enough J demand. The only problem is that BLR is almost at the end of ULH range and thus high risk and need true ULR frames in low density configs. In addition, other than SFO and NYC, the traffic to NA is quite spread out as well. Although this is the first time I'm hearing about non-trivial LAX demand to BLR, I believe most of the VFX studios are based in BOM.
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:37 am

lightsaber wrote:
7. Yes. MAA should see Skyteam. But bilateral rights are precious and will thus go to high J cities
SV flies to MAA and is in Skyteam last I checked.
 
binayak
Posts: 959
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:32 am

edealinfo wrote:
SpiceJet is hiring (walk in interview) and their requirements below offer good humor.

"They (candidates) should carry a pleasing personality with an unblemished complexion and good body language, excellent verbal and written communication skills in both Hindi and English, confidence and ability to handle passengers and provide only the best customer service.

The female candidates should have a minimum of 155 cm height and weight in proportion to the height. As per the requirements, candidates have to bring their updated CV along with a passport size and full-length photograph (in formals). Applicants must come in formals (half sleeve shirt, knee-length skirt, blazer or jacket (as per the weather condition), stockings, close court footwear and a watch)."

https://www.timesnownews.com/business-e ... ere/429317


Do read this twitter thread :
https://twitter.com/psahani15/status/11 ... 05760?s=19
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:44 am

sabby wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
4. BLR does outsourcing which has a concentration in New York City, Dallas, San Francisco/silicon valley, and Los Angeles. But yield doesn't appear that great. Only JFK, SFO, or LAX might have enough premium demand. ULH is highly dependent on paid J.
Lightsaber


Actually, very little traffic of BLR is for outsourcing as they tend to travel rarely. The majority of the traffic is from software product companies and finance back offices. As per my information, yield is pretty good for most part and there's enough J demand. The only problem is that BLR is almost at the end of ULH range and thus high risk and need true ULR frames in low density configs. In addition, other than SFO and NYC, the traffic to NA is quite spread out as well. Although this is the first time I'm hearing about non-trivial LAX demand to BLR, I believe most of the VFX studios are based in BOM.


I think some of us use outsourcing to mean both owned and unowned back office or low end software development. Which is technically wrong. That said, a lot of posters have mentioned that even when they work for global companies, they do not get J betweenness BLr-US. They must take the lowest fare. That surprised me as my company gives all levels, even entry level, J for any flight over 8 hours (which India is). I will say there must be something to the fact that BLR origin doesn’t always Gett j to the US. The bulk of BLR-US is probably work travel rather than VFR. So it should have received more connectivity. Who knows. We will see. Think SFO-BLR would help BLR’s economy
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:47 am

[url][/url]
edealinfo wrote:
YouGeeElWhy wrote:
Huh? OW and *A have had the lead in India for quite sometime. QR/CX and SQ by themselves run laps around Skyteam in India. While these recent adds by Skyteam are impressive they really went to full a void for the DL/VS/KL/AF Joint Venture.


My point is that Skyteam pretty much has filled the void left by Jet when OW and *A had the opportunity to eat into it. They failed. Opportunities like these don't come too often.


Yup. Other than Spice, the really news maker is DL and its partners. Their JV has double down on India BIG TIME. I guess low yield India has some value to them. Now fingers crossed JFK-BOM does well
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:06 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
7. Yes. MAA should see Skyteam. But bilateral rights are precious and will thus go to high J cities
SV flies to MAA and is in Skyteam last I checked.


I don't think SV would count for this analysis as not many from EU or USA may opt for them over KL/VS/DL/AF.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:29 pm

binayak wrote:


Sad. And, they are hiring 2,000 ex-Jet employees (link below), all who I assume would have to meet the "fair and lovely" complexion standard (per your above link).

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 619470.cms
Last edited by edealinfo on Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:30 pm

lightsaber wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Oh well, time for a UA SFO-BOM flight.

Lightsaber


1. Why is a hypothetical UA SFO-BOM flight better than a SFO -BLR flight?

2. If, hypothetically, Delta had to add a second direct flight to India, would it be JFK- DEL or JFK - BLR?

3. If AA had to start a flight to India, what would be the logical origin and destination airports?

4. What is BLR's largest, or most profitable, US destination airport?

5. If HYD was to get a US carrier, or another European carrier, which airlines are reasonable potential contenders?

6. For how many more years will Calcutta have NO direct service to Europe until the population reaches such a mass that a flight becomes inevitable?

7. Isn't it odd that none of the SkyTeam partners DL/AF/KL/VS have a presence is MAA (Chennai)? Which of these carriers would likely start service first.....when this City can no longer be ignored?

1. My perception of demand hubbed through SFO. UA will fly whichever makes more economic sense. It also has to do with AI's base to hub in BOM for UA.

2. I actually don't know what DL might fly. I think there is more latent West coast US demand due to EU3 service to India where DL isn't as likely to fill a direct as UA.

3. I do not see AA having the demand for a direct to India.

4. BLR does outsourcing which has a concentration in New York City, Dallas, San Francisco/silicon valley, and Los Angeles. But yield doesn't appear that great. Only JFK, SFO, or LAX might have enough premium demand. ULH is highly dependent on paid J.

5..HYD isn't ready for a US3 carrier in J demand. For EU3... I'm not aware of enough bilateral rights to make this happen.

6. Calcutta has low end demand. That means local hubbing.

7. Yes. MAA should see Skyteam. But bilateral rights are precious and will thus go to high J cities.

There is no inherent right to service when limited bilateral make serving loyal customers more profitable than new. It creates risk adversion. Limited slots at EU3 hubs will be allocated on profit.

ULH is big premium to big premium. Only DEL and BOM meet that definition today.

Lightsaber


Thank you for the insight.
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:38 pm

edealinfo wrote:
YouGeeElWhy wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
7. Yes. MAA should see Skyteam. But bilateral rights are precious and will thus go to high J cities
SV flies to MAA and is in Skyteam last I checked.


I don't think SV would count for this analysis as not many from EU or USA may opt for them over KL/VS/DL/AF.
so you ask about Skyteam but say an actual member is not pertinent to the analysis of Skyteam because they are not KL/VS/DL/AF of which VS is not a member of Skyteam. Boss, that is what we call non sequitur. :white:
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:45 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
YouGeeElWhy wrote:
SV flies to MAA and is in Skyteam last I checked.


I don't think SV would count for this analysis as not many from EU or USA may opt for them over KL/VS/DL/AF.
so you ask about Skyteam but say an actual member is not pertinent to the analysis of Skyteam because they are not KL/VS/DL/AF of which VS is not a member of Skyteam. Boss, that is what we call non sequitur. :white:


My apologies. When I meant SkyTeam, I meant to say the closely integrated metal neutral joint venture partners namely KL/VS/DL/AF.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:53 pm

Blow Hot Blow Cold??? I am getting so tired of this Jet saga. Please end for heaven's sake - either way it doesn't matter!

The only way the title story makes sense is if Moody was upset with Surest Parabhu and Jayant Sinha, and shifted them out, because Moody wanted to save Jet jobs, via a Jet revival. Otherwise, the title of the story could just reflect the newspaper's wishful thinking.

"Indian govt injects new optimism over Jet Airways future"

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/transpo ... ays-future
 
sabby
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:53 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
sabby wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
4. BLR does outsourcing which has a concentration in New York City, Dallas, San Francisco/silicon valley, and Los Angeles. But yield doesn't appear that great. Only JFK, SFO, or LAX might have enough premium demand. ULH is highly dependent on paid J.
Lightsaber


Actually, very little traffic of BLR is for outsourcing as they tend to travel rarely. The majority of the traffic is from software product companies and finance back offices. As per my information, yield is pretty good for most part and there's enough J demand. The only problem is that BLR is almost at the end of ULH range and thus high risk and need true ULR frames in low density configs. In addition, other than SFO and NYC, the traffic to NA is quite spread out as well. Although this is the first time I'm hearing about non-trivial LAX demand to BLR, I believe most of the VFX studios are based in BOM.


I think some of us use outsourcing to mean both owned and unowned back office or low end software development. Which is technically wrong. That said, a lot of posters have mentioned that even when they work for global companies, they do not get J betweenness BLr-US. They must take the lowest fare. That surprised me as my company gives all levels, even entry level, J for any flight over 8 hours (which India is). I will say there must be something to the fact that BLR origin doesn’t always Gett j to the US. The bulk of BLR-US is probably work travel rather than VFR. So it should have received more connectivity. Who knows. We will see. Think SFO-BLR would help BLR’s economy


Yes, J class travel is not norm below Director level but most companies do not enforce the cheapest fare - employees usually get to choose the route and the carrier. The Finance companies still allow J travel at all level though. Even in Y, fares between BLR-US is significantly higher than most cities so yield should be good. Considering that there are more than 200 companies in BLR including all the tech and finance giants, demand is always high. It is just that extra 500nm distance that makes non-stops very tricky. Even from cities like NYC/LON/SFO, there are barely 2-3 flights >7000nm.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:00 pm

sabby wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
sabby wrote:

Actually, very little traffic of BLR is for outsourcing as they tend to travel rarely. The majority of the traffic is from software product companies and finance back offices. As per my information, yield is pretty good for most part and there's enough J demand. The only problem is that BLR is almost at the end of ULH range and thus high risk and need true ULR frames in low density configs. In addition, other than SFO and NYC, the traffic to NA is quite spread out as well. Although this is the first time I'm hearing about non-trivial LAX demand to BLR, I believe most of the VFX studios are based in BOM.


I think some of us use outsourcing to mean both owned and unowned back office or low end software development. Which is technically wrong. That said, a lot of posters have mentioned that even when they work for global companies, they do not get J betweenness BLr-US. They must take the lowest fare. That surprised me as my company gives all levels, even entry level, J for any flight over 8 hours (which India is). I will say there must be something to the fact that BLR origin doesn’t always Gett j to the US. The bulk of BLR-US is probably work travel rather than VFR. So it should have received more connectivity. Who knows. We will see. Think SFO-BLR would help BLR’s economy


Yes, J class travel is not norm below Director level but most companies do not enforce the cheapest fare - employees usually get to choose the route and the carrier. The Finance companies still allow J travel at all level though. Even in Y, fares between BLR-US is significantly higher than most cities so yield should be good. Considering that there are more than 200 companies in BLR including all the tech and finance giants, demand is always high. It is just that extra 500nm distance that makes non-stops very tricky. Even from cities like NYC/LON/SFO, there are barely 2-3 flights >7000nm.


So, here's what others have opined:

BLR - SFO: a likely non starter since the route goes directly over the himalayas and a diversion is required (more fuel, more time, more cost)

BLR - NYC: a likely non starter for now since if DL moves to start one so will UA and both would lose so none would start.

BLR - Chicago/PHL: is there even a market for it? AA is too busy dealing with other problems to even contemplate it.

BLR - LAX: Likely too long; in any case LAX is fragmented; might not even be a good market choice

My take based on all the comments:

1.In time (5 years) we might see a UA -- EWR to BLR, if UA strongly believes that DL won't start a competing service. UA would start BLR conditional to a SFO to BOM starting first and also being successful.

2. For direct service from the US to India, UA is the best bet right now and the next route after SFO- DEL (already announced), is likely to be SFO - BOM (in 3 years), and then EWR to BLR (in 5 years)?)

Now that Jet has discontinued YYZ, will Air Canada expand its presence to India? If so, which is the most likely route? How feasible is YYZ to BLR?
Last edited by edealinfo on Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:14 pm

Ajay Singh's prominence is increasing -- he has been elected to the IATA Board just 3 months after SpiceJet joined the organization.

Here's what happened recently:

1. SpiceJet moved quickly to get 40 ex-Jet planes and grab BOM and DEL slots.
2. SpiceJet code-shared with Emirates
3. Moody wins elections, decisively.
4. SpiceJet starts first foreign UDAN flight ( https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 619252.cms )
5. Ajay Singh of Spicejet elected to IATA Board

What's next? SpiceJet secures ex-Jet wide bodied aircraft for a song in a fire sale of them by creditors? Ajay Singh is already talking the price down by stating that the aircraft will need maintenance which is nothing more than a negotiating tactic, as well as an out, if he changes his mind on buying those planes.

https://www.deccanherald.com/business/s ... 37654.html
 
binayak
Posts: 959
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:28 pm

edealinfo wrote:

Now that Jet has discontinued YYZ, will Air Canada expand its presence to India? If so, which is the most likely route? How feasible is YYZ to BLR?


Canada market is largely concentrated around DEL, ATQ region.
Last year, AC reduced YYZ BOM to a seasonal 3 weekly despite the flight having good loads which says that yields weren't good for non stop.
Moreover AC will only be able to send a 77L to BLR ( not their highly dense 787s) which has 40 J. I don't think the market can sustain that. India - Canada is not as premium as India USA.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
sabby
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:34 pm

edealinfo wrote:
So, here's what others have opined:

BLR - SFO: a likely non starter since the route goes directly over the himalayas and a diversion is required (more fuel, more time, more cost)

BLR - NYC: a likely non starter for now since if DL moves to start one so will UA and both would lose so none would start.

BLR - Chicago/PHL: is there even a market for it? AA is too busy dealing with other problems to even contemplate it.

BLR - LAX: Likely too long; in any case LAX is fragmented; might not even be a good market choice

My take based on all the comments:

1.In time (5 years) we might see a UA -- EWR to BLR, if UA strongly believes that DL won't start a competing service. UA would start BLR conditional to a SFO to BOM starting first and also being successful.

2. For direct service from the US to India, UA is the best bet right now and the next route after SFO- DEL (already announced), is likely to be SFO - BOM (in 3 years), and then EWR to BLR (in 5 years)?)

Now that Jet has discontinued YYZ, will Air Canada expand its presence to India? If so, which is the most likely route? How feasible is YYZ to BLR?


I'd say BLR-SFO is going to happen, only question is when. I think it would be by 2025 when the next gen engines are available, could be earlier too if demand grows fast. I don't think DL would even think about a flight to BLR, irrespective of UA or others. They need to first establish a successful operation on BOM and then possibly DEL, BLR can be served via BOM with codesharing. There is quite abit of demand between NYC and BLR as all the big banks are at BLR and they allow J travel for all employees. I'd guess EWR-BLR is also likely in the next decade. LAX or any other cities , I just don't see any demand to fill even a 788.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1487
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:03 pm

sabby wrote:
There is quite abit of demand between NYC and BLR as all the big banks are at BLR


Can you name the big banks....US banks with an Indian presence? Why and how come?
 
sabby
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:45 pm

edealinfo wrote:
sabby wrote:
There is quite abit of demand between NYC and BLR as all the big banks are at BLR


Can you name the big banks....US banks with an Indian presence? Why and how come?

I meant the Investment Banks along with other large banks e.g. Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Citi, JP Morgan etc. They have large offices in Bangalore, mostly IT and some operations. These banks have loads of cash and have people travel between NYC and BLR frequently (along with LHR, SIN, HKG and TKO).
 
binayak
Posts: 959
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:07 pm

I think a good case for BLR can be LH down gauging FRA BLR to an a330 and letting UA start a non stop from EWR on a 787-9.
Let the higher yielding traffic fly UA which is a JV partner of LH.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
airboss787
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:00 pm

sabby wrote:

There is quite a bit of demand between NYC and BLR as all the big banks are at BLR and they allow J travel for all employees.


Could you tell us which American banks are based in Bangalore? JP Morgan, Bank of America, Chase, Citibank, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs are all based in Mumbai and this where I would think all the J traffic comes from. Bangalore may have offices but not sure how many flights or even J cabins those can fill.
Star Alliance Gold
 
airboss787
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:05 pm

binayak wrote:
I think a good case for BLR can be LH down gauging FRA BLR to an a330 and letting UA start a non stop from EWR on a 787-9.
Let the higher yielding traffic fly UA which is a JV partner of LH.


How does that benefit LH? Downgauging from a 747-8 to an A330 is going to make a lot of frequent fliers unhappy. I'd be shocked if they touched that flight. There's a reason why that flight is so popular and why it is so premium heavy. LH downgauging would be more of a sign of things slowing down than providing UA some space. The most popular routing for that anyway is BLR-FRA-SFO so it makes no sense to switch especially if UA wants EWR-BLR. If UA wants to start something, they can but it shouldn't be at the expense of a profitable, successful and high-yielding route.
Star Alliance Gold
 
killswitch13
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:52 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:31 pm

This months edition of Vistaras inflight mag shows new connections to MAA, IXC and VNS ex BOM
 
sabby
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:50 pm

airboss787 wrote:
sabby wrote:

There is quite a bit of demand between NYC and BLR as all the big banks are at BLR and they allow J travel for all employees.


Could you tell us which American banks are based in Bangalore? JP Morgan, Bank of America, Chase, Citibank, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs are all based in Mumbai and this where I would think all the J traffic comes from. Bangalore may have offices but not sure how many flights or even J cabins those can fill.


I think you may not be quite up to date. BLR is the 3rd largest office for GS globally and 2nd largest in terms of just engineers. Morgan Stanley opened their office in 2014 and now have 3-4k employees (compared to ~2.5k in BOM). JP Morgan have multiple buildings. In addition to this, Deutche bank, Danske, RBS, Barclays, SoGe, Credit Suisse, Citi all have significant presence.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 18

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos