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CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:24 pm

avier wrote:
A new lounge has opened at BOM's Terminal 1B, where the 3 major LCC's operate out of, called Oasis. Pretty reasonable rates too for access. Seems ideal for business travellers using LCC's and also the ones flying the "Business" cabin product of SpiceJet or GoAir.
https://m.hindustantimes.com/mumbai-news/terminal-1b-of-city-airport-gets-lounge-for-stopover-fliers/story-ZUSg8WUxA9mi8Jx4DI19PI.html
Image


I've always liked the BOM lounges with the new terminal/renovations. The international lounge is my third favorite behind the VS's LHR club house and CX's HKG lounge. To think in the old terminal before any renovations the lounges were in basically large walk in closets right by check in. Talk about crazy and odd.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:32 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
unrave wrote:
Our NRI overlords will go ballistic. For them the entire Indian aviation industry exists solely to indulge them with cheap tickets when they come visit us every year.


How On earth you stole words from my mouth lolz..My Uncle and his family will be the first ones going loco if AI shuts down and hate to admit my parents too ..Its like now AI has become something I wont call a liability but somethin more sort of an "ENTITY" that cant be just shut down but then you hate it being there for its a waste.


The previous comment was meant to attack / put down those of us who are not residing in India.

To the other poster - for the record, I am totally fine with every employee of AI being fired and all loss making routes of AI shut down. I think it would be dumb to just totally shut AI down - meaning you waste all the developed routes, infrastructure etc. How does that help Indian tax payers. Sell it to anyone you deem fit, debt free, and give them free rain to fix AI (fire people, change routes, change vendors, stop employee theft etc). Let them call it Vistara or Air Chennai for all I care. People keep interpreting someone saying why would you ever just waste developed infrastructure by shut down with routing for the airline (or being a fan boy). Delta bought Pan Am's EU network but no one says Pan Am was saved. LH bought Air Berlin's DUS hub but no one says Air Berlin was saved. SO what is up on the Indian threads??? My only point on delaying AI's privatization was because I felt India (and DEL) would be really hurt if both their long haul carrier shut down (or significantly downsize) in the same year. How would this be good for tourism, economy, business. But yeah the foreigner somehow takes a more sympathetic view on Indian aviation. How horrible. But hey you let's just shut down AI, Jet and double seats for EK, QR and TK. Indian airline INTL market share can drop to 25% and most of those jobs can go to foreigners. But hey small town India gets a foreign flight and cheap fares. This has never been about cheap fares for NRIs - many of us are alliance captive and pay premiums to fly our alliance, be it coach or business class. But that story doesn't work for the remarks here.


I understand your view point and I Myself know deep within AI somehow is more important than ever gven 9W the other major Intl carier flying out of india is gone.I know we might not like it for various reasons but I guess even if AI is privatised or not or God knows what happens to it..It certainly doesnt seem to be going away anytime soon lol.
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:55 pm

avier wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
When slots are precious, tertiary cities are dropped to add frequency for high yield passengers, so this is the logical outcome of slot limitations.


Not completely true. Tertiary cities can be money makers actually since they have very little to NIL competition and that's exactly what Spicejet is doing using the new Jet slots at BOM. List of such cities I can recollect SpiceJet added recently from BOM are :
Gorakhpur/Durgapur/Madurai/Vijayawada/Tirupati/Dehradun/Bagdogra/Kanpur.
Most of these routes have Spice as the sole carrier on the route. Half of them not even served by Jet earlier. Still the slots were used for opening up non-Jet routes.

Cities from Jets network lacking connectivity from BOM to such towns are Rajkot/Aurangabad/Bhuj/Jodhpur, and some more maybe. Air India is minting money on these routes as it has a monopoly on these routes currently offering just single daily flights. These routes charged a premium even during Jet days because of lack of LCC's on the route.
Some of these towns are small but serve as industrial towns hence their importance for frequent business travelers.

Don't know about minting money, but service to Tertiary cities and beyond and sometimes not even going out of the way hub has been a massive improvement and shows good state of Indian aviation.
Love the AIXes
 
VTORD
Posts: 512
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:01 pm

Re: the sports quota, I am okay with AI sponsoring 203 sportsmen (depending upon who they are and at what level they compete and so on). I mean I don't want any of the National / IPL professional cricketers to be on that pay roll. India doesn't really provide adequate opportunities and encouragement to sportsmen (other than cricket and the occasional badminton or tennis player) to earn a living as a sportsman.

I thought this year the Delhi IPL team was wearing AI insignia on their tracks. I wonder how much AI is coughing up for that. They will save at least couple hundred million by removing that. BCCI is a greedy and loaded organization that doesn't need to benefit from taxpayer money.
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:14 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
Vistara announces direct flight From Chandigarh To Mumbai and this is its 5th flight from the City.UK seems to be expanding at a stable steady rate,seems pretty good for an FSC.

As much as I would want them to link my base VILK to more cities,I wont want them to make haste descisions like 9W did by launching insane Flights like the one to ALLAHABAD from LUCKNOW and once i flew that and only 3 People were there in the ATR 72..I guess this weird planing or UDAN trap nailed 9Ws coffin.Coming back to Vistara,I like the airline and love how they are apt in planing the routes even withdarwing if it isnt workin for them.
Good Work Vistara !

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/chandig ... 779606.cms


I have never flown Vistara as yet. But with SQ and Tata backing, I'm sure it will be well managed.

"I wont want them to make haste descisions like 9W" --> This is what I have been saying. Let it organically evolve as per their own business plans. (That does not make me Jet hater)

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:18 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
killswitch13 wrote:
^^^ sardar civil aviation minister fulfilling his fantasies with taxpayers money


In case you missed the recent news, 235 Million of 1.37 Billion Indians gave him permission to spend.

You are saying that as if the remaining 1.135 explicitly did not give permission.

Only on this forum it seems that the general elections were a referendum on Civil Aviation.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:30 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
But hey small town India gets a foreign flight and cheap fares. This has never been about cheap fares for NRIs - many of us are alliance captive and pay premiums to fly our alliance, be it coach or business class. But that story doesn't work for the remarks here.

Right here, for some NRI's non-stop flights into BOM with 9W makes them alliance captive and pay premium.

But for the NRI's outside of BOM, where the rest of India (which pretty much plays ping-pong), the "foreign flights" are all about cheap fares.

These are the same NRIs who ignored the premium of sub-600 dollars fare and bought cheap tickets for $1100 to avoid BOM. 8-)

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:37 pm

VTORD wrote:
Re: the sports quota, I am okay with AI sponsoring 203 sportsmen (depending upon who they are and at what level they compete and so on). I mean I don't want any of the National / IPL professional cricketers to be on that pay roll. India doesn't really provide adequate opportunities and encouragement to sportsmen (other than cricket and the occasional badminton or tennis player) to earn a living as a sportsman.

Absolutely on mark. They (all quasi-govt. companies) should have a system to kick out once the player once they go pro, or have a substantial income level.
Love the AIXes
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:53 pm

aarbee wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
But hey small town India gets a foreign flight and cheap fares. This has never been about cheap fares for NRIs - many of us are alliance captive and pay premiums to fly our alliance, be it coach or business class. But that story doesn't work for the remarks here.

Right here, for some NRI's non-stop flights into BOM with 9W makes them alliance captive and pay premium.

But for the NRI's outside of BOM, where the rest of India (which pretty much plays ping-pong), the "foreign flights" are all about cheap fares.

These are the same NRIs who ignored the premium of sub-600 dollars fare and bought cheap tickets for $1100 to avoid BOM. 8-)

-R


Aarbee I was being flippant. I don't think NRIs have been posting here based on their need for cheap flights or any personal gains/agenda. We all are simply posting our opinions based on our reasonable judgement and the info we have seen. We may be right or wrong (sadly someone can't be banned for being an idiot or gullible). Do I suspect the motivations of many on this forum, hell yeah. But what is the point of accusing fellow posters? I wish it would all stop. Lightsaber has warned people not to target people on their origin but yet poster keep doing it. Why? Let's debate aviation and leave all these personal attacks aside. At least being pro or anti an airline has to do with aviation. Anti someone's background should be a NO GO for people. I hope you join me on this. And two wrongs don't make a right. If you feel someone has done something that violates the code of conduct here, then please let us know. But national origin and personal attacks should be stopped.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:55 pm

VTORD wrote:
Re: the sports quota, I am okay with AI sponsoring 203 sportsmen (depending upon who they are and at what level they compete and so on). I mean I don't want any of the National / IPL professional cricketers to be on that pay roll. India doesn't really provide adequate opportunities and encouragement to sportsmen (other than cricket and the occasional badminton or tennis player) to earn a living as a sportsman.

I thought this year the Delhi IPL team was wearing AI insignia on their tracks. I wonder how much AI is coughing up for that. They will save at least couple hundred million by removing that. BCCI is a greedy and loaded organization that doesn't need to benefit from taxpayer money.


I agree about the IPL guys. But not really focused on sports people. There are so many other things wrong with AI, their employment (or fake employment) of sports people is a meh for me. Indian sportspeople (like aside a few pro athletes) make so little money and have to fight their way up. I wish them well.
 
TEMPO
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 2:34 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:34 am

Aviation Minister Puri hints at rationalizing taxes on avjet fuel. From Mint Business:

...

In an apparent reference to the tax levied on aviation fuel, the minister said domestic airlines need to be given a level playing field with their overseas counterparts. Domestic carriers pay 11% excise duty on jet fuel, but do not get credit for it in the final tax liability on air-fare charged to the consumer in the form of GST, as both are different streams of indirect taxation. This lack of tax credit works as an additional cost to domestic airlines. The civil aviation ministry has been batting to include jet fuel in GST.

...
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:30 am

TEMPO wrote:
Aviation Minister Puri hints at rationalizing taxes on avjet fuel. From Mint Business:

...

In an apparent reference to the tax levied on aviation fuel, the minister said domestic airlines need to be given a level playing field with their overseas counterparts. Domestic carriers pay 11% excise duty on jet fuel, but do not get credit for it in the final tax liability on air-fare charged to the consumer in the form of GST, as both are different streams of indirect taxation. This lack of tax credit works as an additional cost to domestic airlines. The civil aviation ministry has been batting to include jet fuel in GST.

...


Every Civil Aviation Minister has a wishful list of tax credits, tax reduction, etc plans but a cost decrease on one side (lower taxes) is also lower income for the Finance Ministry. That's why nothing has been done for eons. The key issue is how persuasive or influential the Aviation Minister is with the Finance Minster.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:37 am

Sometime back, I had asked whether it was feasible for Virgin Atlantic to start flights to Bangalore and some one (who is not a regular poster on this forum) responded with good reasoning as to why it was highly unlikely to happen. [I was satisfied with the response as it made a lot of sense].

Now, slightly different questions come to mind.

1) Why doesn't Air France start flights to Madras?

2) How soon could we expect a flight from Frankfurt to Hyderabad on Lufthansa?

3) Would SWISS ever consider a flight from Zurich to Bangalore? They have good connections to Europe and the US and will always be associated with a premium brand. Further, they could complement service already provided by their airline partner, Lufthansa.

4) Does ANA's flight to Madras kill any possibility of an Air France flight from Paris to Madras?
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:30 am

aarbee wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
Vistara announces direct flight From Chandigarh To Mumbai and this is its 5th flight from the City.UK seems to be expanding at a stable steady rate,seems pretty good for an FSC.

As much as I would want them to link my base VILK to more cities,I wont want them to make haste descisions like 9W did by launching insane Flights like the one to ALLAHABAD from LUCKNOW and once i flew that and only 3 People were there in the ATR 72..I guess this weird planing or UDAN trap nailed 9Ws coffin.Coming back to Vistara,I like the airline and love how they are apt in planing the routes even withdarwing if it isnt workin for them.
Good Work Vistara !

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/chandig ... 779606.cms


I have never flown Vistara as yet. But with SQ and Tata backing, I'm sure it will be well managed.

"I wont want them to make haste descisions like 9W" --> This is what I have been saying. Let it organically evolve as per their own business plans. (That does not make me Jet hater)

-R


True..Even Im not a Jet hater cause theres no need to hate an airline thats not even there lolz Haters must be happy though.I agree Vistara with half of its higher management handled by SIA folks who are obviously very professional and know what to do to make profits at the same time delivering the best experience.

Im flying them next month and its gona be after a very long time So I will see if they still maintain that standard of service or not.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:37 am

Why is Indigo finding it hard to find ATR pilots when ex-Jet ATR pilots should technically be readily available?

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/atr-d ... 682311.htm
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:34 am

Hajj Flights Schedule is out for North India region.Its surprising that AI will operate the Hajj flights time time as previously I have seen Saudia A332s operating Hajj flights to and fro lucknow...Im wondering what planes will they use I doubt they will use A320s so probably 321s and dont think they would use 777s or 787s so lets see.

https://ummid.com/news/2019/june/14.06. ... delhi.html
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:16 am

Has anyone here had the chance of trying UK's ALL ECO A320 VT-TNN ?

Id love to see how the cabin looks like especially in the front section.I dont know whats Vistara plans are with inducting All Eco A320s and if they do order more of all eco then may be they plan to operate some LCC type sub or something ? But I guess they r just experimenting with different types of seat configs.
 
User avatar
CPS001
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:38 am

FligtReporter wrote:
Hajj Flights Schedule is out for North India region.Its surprising that AI will operate the Hajj flights time time as previously I have seen Saudia A332s operating Hajj flights to and fro lucknow...Im wondering what planes will they use I doubt they will use A320s so probably 321s and dont think they would use 777s or 787s so lets see.

https://ummid.com/news/2019/june/14.06. ... delhi.html


AI has been operating Hajj flights for years, even from LKO. They usually use their 777s and 747s, sometimes A320 family from airports which can't handle widebodies.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:49 am

Vistara On their twitter handle just launched their latest 737 In full Vistara Livery reg VT-TGF however the belly is still grey blue and they have mentioned that all their 737s will be painted in full Vistara livery
( INCLUDED BELLY ) by July.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:46 am

AI just announced its plans to fly to NAIROBI and BALI so it feels like IndiGo's Expansion spirit has taken over AI lol.

Its nice that AI is expanding to Africa when starts AI will be the only Central And South Asian airline to be flying to 5 Continents.

Btw...can anyone explain me how on earth is AI able to expand and launch these flights ( Toronto,Bali,Nairobi,Najaf) when its an already dead airline.Had a private airline been in such debt I fear they would even survive another day and here we have probably the most debt ridden airline launching new flights without givin a damn about their losses.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wap.busine ... 353_1.html
 
killswitch13
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:52 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:17 pm

^^ Even BOM-HKG is on the cards.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:19 pm

Hmm...seems like No Privatisation for AI at least for another 100 years..Now God knows if these stats are true or these AI babus are making it all up.

why do i have a feeling that GOI is like a clever organization that would go to any extent to kill any other airline to keep its own personal Cab service ( AI) flying..9W gone..I wont be surprised even if Vistara is shut down after Mr.Ratan tata is gone from the world

https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news ... JDX8H.html
Last edited by FligtReporter on Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
voxkel
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:20 pm

I'm surprised AI is launching DEL-YYZ. They will be going head on with a daily AC 789 flight. I was thinking DEL-LAX or BOM-ORD would come before. The later can be operated even with the PK closure.

I also think it's about time that somebody launches India-JNB nonstop.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:26 pm

voxkel wrote:
I'm surprised AI is launching DEL-YYZ. I was thinking DEL-LAX or BOM-ORD would come before. The later can be operated even with the PK closure.


Yeah i agree Pak airspace closure is just a hurdle for EU and EAST COAST American and Canandian cities connectivity..it doesnt give a spec of loss to AI for its Australia and other Flights.However PIA is for sure never going to fly to BKK,HKG,Colombo,Kualalumpur as long as the ban stays so they are losing money too and its harder on them more than it is on India.For they are not gettin the money from airlines who use to use their airspace.For us its just a lill loss we are still open and also our DEL-SFO flies towards pacific so it just incurrs loss while returning over atlantic.

but yes if Pak airspace is open it will be better.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:29 pm

voxkel wrote:
I'm surprised AI is launching DEL-YYZ. They will be going head on with a daily AC 789 flight. I was thinking DEL-LAX or BOM-ORD would come before. The later can be operated even with the PK closure.

I also think it's about time that somebody launches India-JNB nonstop.

Yes i was thinkin the same like why did they choose Nairobi..South Africa has much potential both for indian diaspora and tourism..I dont think this route would be muc successful for many reasons incl tourism...though I dont know if Nairobi has much of indian diaspora compared to South Africa..probably the flight is gonna cater to Nairobi folks coming to India for medical treatment and studies i guess.
Last edited by FligtReporter on Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:44 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
Hajj Flights Schedule is out for North India region.Its surprising that AI will operate the Hajj flights time time as previously I have seen Saudia A332s operating Hajj flights to and fro lucknow...Im wondering what planes will they use I doubt they will use A320s so probably 321s and dont think they would use 777s or 787s so lets see.

https://ummid.com/news/2019/june/14.06. ... delhi.html


Why does the Government need to organize Hajj flights. Why can't those who want to go on Hajj just buy their own tickets? this is not intended to be a political or religious discussion.

I am looking for the logical reasoning.....unless there isn't one?
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:51 pm

edealinfo wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
Hajj Flights Schedule is out for North India region.Its surprising that AI will operate the Hajj flights time time as previously I have seen Saudia A332s operating Hajj flights to and fro lucknow...Im wondering what planes will they use I doubt they will use A320s so probably 321s and dont think they would use 777s or 787s so lets see.

https://ummid.com/news/2019/june/14.06. ... delhi.html


Why does the Government need to organize Hajj flights. Why can't those who want to go on Hajj just buy their own tickets? this is not intended to be a political or religious discussion.

I am looking for the logical reasoning.....unless there isn't one?


that is the way it is..Gov gives cheaper hajj tickets to muslim folks and If im not wrong India actually has the world's cheapest hajj packages.I know its weird and really sort of disasterous for our own stuff that all this money could be used better at but thats what the gov has been doing for last,God knows like, 50 somethin years.

So much for being a Secular state that gov is ready to even incurr losses at the stake of providin cheap tickets to a certain section of people for their journey I dont think any other country does this.No Wonder AI is in loss for its more of a Public Bus than an airline.

And To Muslims here I mean no disrespect just stating my opnion so dont come chasing me down.
Peace.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:52 pm

FligtReporter wrote:

1. Its nice that AI is expanding to Africa when starts AI will be the only Central And South Asian airline to be flying to 5 Continents.

2. Btw...can anyone explain me how on earth is AI able to expand and launch these flights ( Toronto,Bali,Nairobi,Najaf) when its an already dead airline.Had a private airline been in such debt I fear they would even survive another day and here we have probably the most debt ridden airline launching new flights without givin a damn about their losses.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wap.busine ... 353_1.html


To the AI "obsessed" person (and I say this in a nice way -- just teasing):

1. It is also a reason why the airline is losing so much money. Spreading the wings so wide is inversely proportionate to profit earning potential.

2. Until last month Air India had approx 25 grounded plans (for lack of spare parts, etc). The government has finally decided that planes sitting on teh ground cost a lot more than those flying. So, the Government released $500 to $600 million to get those planes back in the air for which they would also have to find new routes. One of those planes is a 777 which is being used on the New Delhi to Toronto flight.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:57 pm

UAE, India to renegotiate bilateral air service agreement
(Note -- this is based on reporting from the UAE side which may paint their own picture based on the meeting with the Minister. We need to know what it looks from the Indian perspective)

1. Talks on renegotiation of the bilateral air service agreement are now expected to begin in two to three months

2. UAE carriers are keen to expand their operations to more Tier 2 and Tier 3 Indian cities (this is probably the carrot that the UAE carriers are offering)

3. "India’s domestic carriers are vying for these [Jet's rights] to UAE], but since they have a capacity problem, Gulf airlines may be allotted these rights to ease the woes of passengers." [ this is a really interesting ANGLE, which, if I interpret correctly, means that India's bilateral rights -- to the extent that it is not fully utilized because of lack of capacity by Indian carriers.... will be temporarily (?) allotted to UAE carriers.]

https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/ ... 0590231462

Additional comments:

I thought India - Dubai was a prized route and all Indian carriers are dying to use the un-alloted capacity [ demand to operate the route by Indian carriers far exceeds supply]. Also, Sharjah - India capacity was almost full utilized (until Jet's downfall). Is the report suggesting that Indian carriers don't have palnes to plug the capacity hole?

Notice that no Indian carrier seems to be keen to take up Jet's AUH - India slots.
Last edited by edealinfo on Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
avier
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:04 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Why does the Government need to organize Hajj flights. Why can't those who want to go on Hajj just buy their own tickets? this is not intended to be a political or religious discussion.

I am looking for the logical reasoning.....unless there isn't one?

From what I've read, I believe Hajj subsidies have ended, hence AI flights are paid for by the pilgrims and the flights are more like Charters basically. Hajj subsidies go against their religious beliefs, as pilgrims are supposed to bear their own cost for the journey to the holy place and not receive external help as per their religious beliefs. Also, I've heard AI makes good money on this since it's lean season domestically in various parts of the country where schools/colleges have started, hence redeploying this capacity for pilgrim purpose seems more useful for them.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:08 pm

avier wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Why does the Government need to organize Hajj flights. Why can't those who want to go on Hajj just buy their own tickets? this is not intended to be a political or religious discussion.

I am looking for the logical reasoning.....unless there isn't one?

From what I've been able to understand, the place of pilgrimage is Mecca with closest airport Medinah. There aren't year round flights to that airport from India due to low demand since it's not a big city like Riyadh, Jeddah, etc. So special flights operating like charters fly there from various countries during Hajj season to make connections quicker and not one stop through other cities in Saudi.
Also, from what I've read, I believe Hajj subsidies have ended, hence AI flights are paid for by the pilgrims and the flights are more like Charters basically. Hajj subsidies go against their religious beliefs, as pilgrims are supposed to bear their own cost for the journey to the holy place and not receive external help as per their religious beliefs. Also, I've heard AI makes good money on this since it's lean season domestically in various parts of the country where schools/colleges have started, hence redeploying this capacity for pilgrim purpose seems more useful for them.

Excellent response that clearly explains the circumstances! Thanks.
 
avier
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:15 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Excellent response that clearly explains the circumstances! Thanks.

I'm sorry, I've edited the airport part, as looking up online I realised that was incorrect. But basically Mecca doesn't have any airport, and to have lakhs of pilgrims fly there on regular commercial flights would be impossible as that many seats wouldn't be available to meet such demand, especially from smaller towns in India where there are no flights to Saudi. Hence, charters from various points in India to Jeddah (closest airport to Mecca) help with making the pilgrimage more convenient and quick.
This is no different than those Goa charters that happen during New Year's from Europe, especially eastern Europe/Russia etc.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:20 pm

avier wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Excellent response that clearly explains the circumstances! Thanks.

I'm sorry, I've edited the airport part, as looking up online I realised that was incorrect. But basically Mecca doesn't have any airport, and to have lakhs of pilgrims fly there on regular commercial flights would be impossible as that many seats wouldn't be available to meet such demand, especially from smaller towns in India where there are no flights to Saudi. Hence, charters from various points in India to Jeddah (closest airport to Mecca) help with making the pilgrimage more convenient and quick.
This is no different than those Goa charters that happen during New Year's from Europe, especially eastern Europe/Russia etc.


Again, thank you for your response. Even your earlier response was very helpful because it helped set the context, which was essentially what I was trying to understand with the pilgrimage flights.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:27 pm

edealinfo wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:

1. Its nice that AI is expanding to Africa when starts AI will be the only Central And South Asian airline to be flying to 5 Continents.

2. Btw...can anyone explain me how on earth is AI able to expand and launch these flights ( Toronto,Bali,Nairobi,Najaf) when its an already dead airline.Had a private airline been in such debt I fear they would even survive another day and here we have probably the most debt ridden airline launching new flights without givin a damn about their losses.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wap.busine ... 353_1.html


To the AI "obsessed" person (and I say this in a nice way -- just teasing):

1. It is also a reason why the airline is losing so much money. Spreading the wings so wide is inversely proportionate to profit earning potential.

2. Until last month Air India had approx 25 grounded plans (for lack of spare parts, etc). The government has finally decided that planes sitting on teh ground cost a lot more than those flying. So, the Government released $500 to $600 million to get those planes back in the air for which they would also have to find new routes. One of those planes is a 777 which is being used on the New Delhi to Toronto flight.


Yes Im an AI obsessed person lol but i got my reasons for it and most importanly its a Sweet headache and no gov is serious to either make it profitiable which would at least make the common indian man feel relaxed and a sense of good utilization and return of their tax money used in this airline.

Another reason is My Affection to it,As stupid and ironical it may sound,But yes I like AI for its the best way for me and my family to stay connected to our extended family abroad and if you have grandpa and granma then you would feel how its like to travel with a "WHITE LINER" in comparison to your Desi airline where the crew doesnt look at you as PIA ( Pain In the A**) and grandparents are well taken care of.So Its like I dont want the airline to die but then I also dont want this to continue with babus flying and living abroad on our money.Its just corruption and thats the bad thing about it.I want it to improve obviously but then it seems like almost impossible.I believe either Gov should privatise it ( 99.9 percent Doesnt seem to be happening) Or Improvise it and keep the staff and customer service up to good standards ( 100% Gov CAN do it however there is a lack of will )

Othrr than these two ways I dont see AI improving and I fear it might continue the way it is which is hurtful ofcorse but then what can we do ? Obviously the common man cant force Private airlines like Vistara and foreign cariers like UA etc to be mindful of the airfares which should be as low as possible so We are stuck with it.

Hope now you understand.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2080
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:27 pm

The best thing is AI is doing all this expansion without any new a/c. Increasing aircraft utilization is always welcome.

edealinfo wrote:
UAE, India to renegotiate bilateral air service agreement
(Note -- this is based on reporting from the UAE side which may paint their own picture based on the meeting with the Minister. We need to know what it looks from the Indian perspective)

1. Talks on renegotiation of the bilateral air service agreement are now expected to begin in two to three months

2. UAE carriers are keen to expand their operations to more Tier 2 and Tier 3 Indian cities (this is probably the carrot that the UAE carriers are offering)

3. "India’s domestic carriers are vying for these [Jet's rights] to UAE], but since they have a capacity problem, Gulf airlines may be allotted these rights to ease the woes of passengers." [ this is a really interesting ANGLE, which, if I interpret correctly, means that India's bilateral rights -- to the extent that it is not fully utilized because of lack of capacity by Indian carriers.... will be temporarily (?) allotted to UAE carriers.]

https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/ ... 0590231462

Additional comments:

I thought India - Dubai was a prized route and all Indian carriers are dying to use the un-alloted capacity [ demand to operate the route by Indian carriers far exceeds supply]. Also, Sharjah - India capacity was almost full utilized (until Jet's downfall). Is the report suggesting that Indian carriers don't have palnes to plug the capacity hole?

Notice that no Indian carrier seems to be keen to take up Jet's AUH - India slots.


No sane govt would interfere with a matter under investigation by ED and SFIO.
Giving Indian carrier's rights to Gulf states because of lack of aircraft can only be a Gulf Emir's dream
 
vadodara
Posts: 904
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:36 pm

edealinfo wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
Hajj Flights Schedule is out for North India region.Its surprising that AI will operate the Hajj flights time time as previously I have seen Saudia A332s operating Hajj flights to and fro lucknow...Im wondering what planes will they use I doubt they will use A320s so probably 321s and dont think they would use 777s or 787s so lets see.

https://ummid.com/news/2019/june/14.06. ... delhi.html


Why does the Government need to organize Hajj flights. Why can't those who want to go on Hajj just buy their own tickets? this is not intended to be a political or religious discussion.

I am looking for the logical reasoning.....unless there isn't one?


No there is no logical reasoning; it is political.

One of the reasons why Air India is still afloat.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2555
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:47 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
But hey small town India gets a foreign flight and cheap fares. This has never been about cheap fares for NRIs - many of us are alliance captive and pay premiums to fly our alliance, be it coach or business class. But that story doesn't work for the remarks here.


Lol what?! How many NRIs do you think are alliance captive? The vast majority of them are VFR traffic who choose the airline on the basis of price.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:56 pm

unrave wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
But hey small town India gets a foreign flight and cheap fares. This has never been about cheap fares for NRIs - many of us are alliance captive and pay premiums to fly our alliance, be it coach or business class. But that story doesn't work for the remarks here.


Lol what?! How many NRIs do you think are alliance captive? The vast majority of them are VFR traffic who choose the airline on the basis of price.


I second that
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2555
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:08 pm

anshabhi wrote:
No sane govt would interfere with a matter under investigation by ED and SFIO.
Giving Indian carrier's rights to Gulf states because of lack of aircraft can only be a Gulf Emir's dream

Things have changed. EK and SG are in a relationship now and SG will naturally lobby for increasing bilateral seats to Dubai. The GoI may increase the seats but restrict the PoCs to create the impression of being neutral.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
BrooklyBOMgal
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:16 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:18 pm

Hey unrave u will like this...it's not aviation but still...https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... nt-indian/

BTW I am a resident Indian and I love AI. It gives us a cheap yet good option to fly abroad.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:23 pm

BrooklyBOMgal wrote:
Hey unrave u will like this...it's not aviation but still...https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... nt-indian/

BTW I am a resident Indian and I love AI. It gives us a cheap yet good option to fly abroad.


Exactly the same reaaon why I Love AI in addition to the best treatment given by our desi crew to our old people and children.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2555
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:29 pm

BrooklyBOMgal wrote:
Hey unrave u will like this...it's not aviation but still...https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... nt-indian/

BTW I am a resident Indian and I love AI. It gives us a cheap yet good option to fly abroad.


Ha ha. I knew what article it would be. You have shared this before.
Let AI be brought under professional management and be operated as a proper commercial entity. I will become AI's cheerleader. My main beef with AI is that it survives only on taxpayer funded handouts from the government.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:31 pm

unrave wrote:
BrooklyBOMgal wrote:
Hey unrave u will like this...it's not aviation but still...https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... nt-indian/

BTW I am a resident Indian and I love AI. It gives us a cheap yet good option to fly abroad.


Ha ha. I knew what article it would be. You have shared this before.
Let AI be brought under professional management and be operated as a proper commercial entity. I will become AI's cheerleader. My main beef with AI is that it survives only on taxpayer funded handouts from the government.


Exactly What intend to say..Thanks for putting it in short.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:44 pm

unrave wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
But hey small town India gets a foreign flight and cheap fares. This has never been about cheap fares for NRIs - many of us are alliance captive and pay premiums to fly our alliance, be it coach or business class. But that story doesn't work for the remarks here.


Lol what?! How many NRIs do you think are alliance captive? The vast majority of them are VFR traffic who choose the airline on the basis of price.


I was directly responding to the original posters comment dismissing people’s opinions here on anet. The poster basically said that people lamenting Jet’s demise are just foreigners upset that they can’t get cheap fares to India with Jet’s loss. So I was contradicting that by saying it has nothing to do with that. LIke I have said before perhaps the people lamenting Jet’s demise are just normal aviation fans and not Jet obsessed people. In an effort to discredit people’s views, some posters assign motivations to posters comments. I am trying to correct them when they are not true. After all unrave you are also on a campaign against so called fake news right? And just to be clear my comment had nothing to do with people generally - you are correct people chose on price. Thanks for taking my post totally out of context.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:49 pm

edealinfo wrote:
UAE, India to renegotiate bilateral air service agreement
(Note -- this is based on reporting from the UAE side which may paint their own picture based on the meeting with the Minister. We need to know what it looks from the Indian perspective)

1. Talks on renegotiation of the bilateral air service agreement are now expected to begin in two to three months

2. UAE carriers are keen to expand their operations to more Tier 2 and Tier 3 Indian cities (this is probably the carrot that the UAE carriers are offering)

3. "India’s domestic carriers are vying for these [Jet's rights] to UAE], but since they have a capacity problem, Gulf airlines may be allotted these rights to ease the woes of passengers." [ this is a really interesting ANGLE, which, if I interpret correctly, means that India's bilateral rights -- to the extent that it is not fully utilized because of lack of capacity by Indian carriers.... will be temporarily (?) allotted to UAE carriers.]

https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/ ... 0590231462

Additional comments:

I thought India - Dubai was a prized route and all Indian carriers are dying to use the un-alloted capacity [ demand to operate the route by Indian carriers far exceeds supply]. Also, Sharjah - India capacity was almost full utilized (until Jet's downfall). Is the report suggesting that Indian carriers don't have palnes to plug the capacity hole?

Notice that no Indian carrier seems to be keen to take up Jet's AUH - India slots.


Perfect timing...
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:22 pm

150 of Spicejet’s most recent flights to Hong Kong were delayed on average by 1 1/2 hours. Chinese paper screams murder and calls for slot penalization or monetary penalties
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scmp.c ... ute-mumbai
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:23 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
UAE, India to renegotiate bilateral air service agreement
(Note -- this is based on reporting from the UAE side which may paint their own picture based on the meeting with the Minister. We need to know what it looks from the Indian perspective)

1. Talks on renegotiation of the bilateral air service agreement are now expected to begin in two to three months

2. UAE carriers are keen to expand their operations to more Tier 2 and Tier 3 Indian cities (this is probably the carrot that the UAE carriers are offering)

3. "India’s domestic carriers are vying for these [Jet's rights] to UAE], but since they have a capacity problem, Gulf airlines may be allotted these rights to ease the woes of passengers." [ this is a really interesting ANGLE, which, if I interpret correctly, means that India's bilateral rights -- to the extent that it is not fully utilized because of lack of capacity by Indian carriers.... will be temporarily (?) allotted to UAE carriers.]

https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/ ... 0590231462

Additional comments:

I thought India - Dubai was a prized route and all Indian carriers are dying to use the un-alloted capacity [ demand to operate the route by Indian carriers far exceeds supply]. Also, Sharjah - India capacity was almost full utilized (until Jet's downfall). Is the report suggesting that Indian carriers don't have palnes to plug the capacity hole?

Notice that no Indian carrier seems to be keen to take up Jet's AUH - India slots.


Perfect timing...

Perfect timing for what? Do you support the bilateral rights being increased? Why?
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:29 pm

edealinfo wrote:
150 of Spicejet’s most recent flights to Hong Kong were delayed on average by 1 1/2 hours. Chinese paper screams murder and calls for slot penalization or monetary penalties
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scmp.c ... ute-mumbai


That is the South China Morning Post. Sort of odd that they would go after Spice like this (I mean Spice only flies one flight to HKG). Is it true about the delays? Does Spice really have such an on time flight issue? Or is it just the HKG flight. This will be one issue that Spice will need to work on. IF they have more business fliers and more seasoned fliers on their planes, these people will expect more from them than saw a once a year flyer going from MAA to BLR. IRROPs, one time, cleanliness, etc will all be more scrutinized. I hope they seize the opportunity to transform themselves and step up. Look at JetBlue. They started as a LCC and now really are a hybrid LCC and FSC. IF Spice becomes India’s JetBlue, then it will be a win.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:35 pm

edealinfo wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
UAE, India to renegotiate bilateral air service agreement
(Note -- this is based on reporting from the UAE side which may paint their own picture based on the meeting with the Minister. We need to know what it looks from the Indian perspective)

1. Talks on renegotiation of the bilateral air service agreement are now expected to begin in two to three months

2. UAE carriers are keen to expand their operations to more Tier 2 and Tier 3 Indian cities (this is probably the carrot that the UAE carriers are offering)

3. "India’s domestic carriers are vying for these [Jet's rights] to UAE], but since they have a capacity problem, Gulf airlines may be allotted these rights to ease the woes of passengers." [ this is a really interesting ANGLE, which, if I interpret correctly, means that India's bilateral rights -- to the extent that it is not fully utilized because of lack of capacity by Indian carriers.... will be temporarily (?) allotted to UAE carriers.]

https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/ ... 0590231462

Additional comments:

I thought India - Dubai was a prized route and all Indian carriers are dying to use the un-alloted capacity [ demand to operate the route by Indian carriers far exceeds supply]. Also, Sharjah - India capacity was almost full utilized (until Jet's downfall). Is the report suggesting that Indian carriers don't have palnes to plug the capacity hole?

Notice that no Indian carrier seems to be keen to take up Jet's AUH - India slots.


Perfect timing...

Perfect timing for what? Do you support the bilateral rights being increased? Why?


No I don’t support it but I didn’t want to get into that same argument again. So I focused on timing. WRT timing, even if you support the seat increase, I cannot believe this comes up right now when every Indian airline is scrambling to fill in the gaps of Jet. I want Spice, Indigo, Vistara etc to all succeed. So let’s give them time to bring in capacity and expand. The last thing they need is EK adding a ton of seats and a fare war starting. I appreciate the original poster pointing out the article was from DXB’s POV. I love that they said the capacity crunch to try and force the GOI’s hand. While I still want Indian airlines to start long haul, I am glad BA, KL, DL, VS all stepped in to fill in some of Jet’s gap (keeps a diversity of airlines and cities and frequencies). Also Indian airlines will fill in all the 737/320 INTL flights very soon.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2080
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:35 pm

edealinfo wrote:
150 of Spicejet’s most recent flights to Hong Kong were delayed on average by 1 1/2 hours. Chinese paper screams murder and calls for slot penalization or monetary penalties
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scmp.c ... ute-mumbai


It was started with a B737Max and suffered major issues when it was grounded due to a/c non-availability. Things must be getting better now
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