georgiabill
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:30 pm

Is there any chance we could see an India group pursue developing passenger aircraft? Perhaps starting with regional turbo props, then regional jet in the 70 seat range and then entering A320 B738 size market in the next 20 plus years? I think India has the potential to pull it off. They have achieved space missions, why not developing their own aircraft production industry?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:22 am

edealinfo wrote:
Aviation pacts hurt national carriers: ED

With such kinds of reports in the media, I wonder how India will proceed on additional bilateral flying rights to Dubai.

Couldn't a new rule that denies 6th freedom rights on all the new capacity, under a new bilateral, fix the core issue?

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... epage=true

Why would anyone on the other side sign anything without more 6th freedom rights?

The ME3 are being bypassed with the latest aircraft. India to EU will benefit from the NMA, if launched.

India needs large airports built at high O&D cities with a cut in fuel taxes. Otherwise airlines with high premium traffic will dominate.

With DXB pretty much maxed out, EK will be patient.

India should become the 6th freedom hub to SE Asia from EU and to a lesser extent North America. Getting Infrastructure, taxes, and policies are key.

Think a Dubai in India.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1089
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:37 am

lightsaber wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Aviation pacts hurt national carriers: ED

With such kinds of reports in the media, I wonder how India will proceed on additional bilateral flying rights to Dubai.

Couldn't a new rule that denies 6th freedom rights on all the new capacity, under a new bilateral, fix the core issue?

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... epage=true

Why would anyone on the other side sign anything without more 6th freedom rights?

The ME3 are being bypassed with the latest aircraft. India to EU will benefit from the NMA, if launched.

India needs large airports built at high O&D cities with a cut in fuel taxes. Otherwise airlines with high premium traffic will dominate.

With DXB pretty much maxed out, EK will be patient.

India should become the 6th freedom hub to SE Asia from EU and to a lesser extent North America. Getting Infrastructure, taxes, and policies are key.

Think a Dubai in India.

Lightsaber


Agreed but which airline can even try to make that happen??? I would have hoped Vistara, but they seem on the slow train to nowhere. And Indigo Doesnt seem to have a long haul plan. Let’s see is Spice can come up with a strategy.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:06 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Aviation pacts hurt national carriers: ED

With such kinds of reports in the media, I wonder how India will proceed on additional bilateral flying rights to Dubai.

Couldn't a new rule that denies 6th freedom rights on all the new capacity, under a new bilateral, fix the core issue?

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... epage=true

Why would anyone on the other side sign anything without more 6th freedom rights?

The ME3 are being bypassed with the latest aircraft. India to EU will benefit from the NMA, if launched.

India needs large airports built at high O&D cities with a cut in fuel taxes. Otherwise airlines with high premium traffic will dominate.

With DXB pretty much maxed out, EK will be patient.

India should become the 6th freedom hub to SE Asia from EU and to a lesser extent North America. Getting Infrastructure, taxes, and policies are key.

Think a Dubai in India.

Lightsaber


Agreed but which airline can even try to make that happen??? I would have hoped Vistara, but they seem on the slow train to nowhere. And Indigo Doesnt seem to have a long haul plan. Let’s see is Spice can come up with a strategy.


Vistara with its upcoming 6 78-9s dosnt seem to WIDELY Expand their network and Im sure it will hurt them internationally as well especially if they fly the sectors where AI flies given the MAJORITY Indians fly AI cuz it offers the cheapest prices..its like the 6E of long haul and I guess India could instead be a regional hub with IndiGo being the flag bearer and I think 6E could capitalize on their LCC model and huge fleet by operating flights to Egypt,Seychelles,Indonesia,Bhutan,Afghanistan,Iran,Gulf,Ethiopia,Mauritius (VIA Seychelles) theres a huge potential and i think even wih their 320s n 321 LRs they can make it happen.

when an Egypt air and Ethiopian 738 can make it frm AdAbb and Cairo to Vabb then Im sure a 321 can fly at least much longer than that.
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:22 am

FligtReporter wrote:

Vistara with its upcoming 6 78-9s dosnt seem to WIDELY Expand their network and Im sure it will hurt them internationally as well especially if they fly the sectors where AI flies given the MAJORITY Indians fly AI cuz it offers the cheapest prices..its like the 6E of long haul .


Nope.
At least for the non stops to US, AI's is anything but cheapest. In EWR BOM, most of the time in economy, AI is higher priced than UA.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
FligtReporter
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:37 am

binayak wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:

Vistara with its upcoming 6 78-9s dosnt seem to WIDELY Expand their network and Im sure it will hurt them internationally as well especially if they fly the sectors where AI flies given the MAJORITY Indians fly AI cuz it offers the cheapest prices..its like the 6E of long haul .


Nope.
At least for the non stops to US, AI's is anything but cheapest. In EWR BOM, most of the time in economy, AI is higher priced than UA.


But thats because all the seats get booked so fast that when they see the huge demand they rise the price and thats how all the airlines booking system works.

For me when I or my parents or anyone from our family have to travel to the states we book our flights many months in advance and we get great deal and if you dont believe me..I request you to please google fares for 31/12/2019 from DEL-SFO
and as of today 17/06/2019 9:07 AM IST the prices are around 70K INR AI and 100,000+ On UA So the cheapest NON STOP Flights from INDIA to STATES and elsewhere in the world are only offered by AI and thats why all seats are booked well in advance and those folks who come late have to go through 1 Stop service or hefty UA and No Indian person with Old parents and chilren would want that so at times many Indians prefer paying extra for an AI flight than others.

So AI,any given second of the day ,is the best choice for me and majority of indians.
 
yashk
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:35 am

FligtReporter wrote:
binayak wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:

Vistara with its upcoming 6 78-9s dosnt seem to WIDELY Expand their network and Im sure it will hurt them internationally as well especially if they fly the sectors where AI flies given the MAJORITY Indians fly AI cuz it offers the cheapest prices..its like the 6E of long haul .


Nope.
At least for the non stops to US, AI's is anything but cheapest. In EWR BOM, most of the time in economy, AI is higher priced than UA.


But thats because all the seats get booked so fast that when they see the huge demand they rise the price and thats how all the airlines booking system works.

For me when I or my parents or anyone from our family have to travel to the states we book our flights many months in advance and we get great deal and if you dont believe me..I request you to please google fares for 31/12/2019 from DEL-SFO
and as of today 17/06/2019 9:07 AM IST the prices are around 70K INR AI and 100,000+ On UA So the cheapest NON STOP Flights from INDIA to STATES and elsewhere in the world are only offered by AI and thats why all seats are booked well in advance and those folks who come late have to go through 1 Stop service or hefty UA and No Indian person with Old parents and chilren would want that so at times many Indians prefer paying extra for an AI flight than others.

So AI,any given second of the day ,is the best choice for me and majority of indians.

I think you have really over simplified how airline pricing works. Airlines know when there is more demand and for those dates price will be higher at any given date (does not matter how much in advance you book ) For a 2 week round trip from del to sfo departing 31st dec, AI is priced around 120k whereas UA is around 130k and decent one stop options on major airlines like air China, Cathay, Turkish are around 70-80k. So your assumption that AI is always the cheapest - does not hold true. It’s the same situation with Del JFK and BOM EWR as well.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:10 am

yashk wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
binayak wrote:

Nope.
At least for the non stops to US, AI's is anything but cheapest. In EWR BOM, most of the time in economy, AI is higher priced than UA.


But thats because all the seats get booked so fast that when they see the huge demand they rise the price and thats how all the airlines booking system works.

For me when I or my parents or anyone from our family have to travel to the states we book our flights many months in advance and we get great deal and if you dont believe me..I request you to please google fares for 31/12/2019 from DEL-SFO
and as of today 17/06/2019 9:07 AM IST the prices are around 70K INR AI and 100,000+ On UA So the cheapest NON STOP Flights from INDIA to STATES and elsewhere in the world are only offered by AI and thats why all seats are booked well in advance and those folks who come late have to go through 1 Stop service or hefty UA and No Indian person with Old parents and chilren would want that so at times many Indians prefer paying extra for an AI flight than others.

So AI,any given second of the day ,is the best choice for me and majority of indians.

I think you have really over simplified how airline pricing works. Airlines know when there is more demand and for those dates price will be higher at any given date (does not matter how much in advance you book ) For a 2 week round trip from del to sfo departing 31st dec, AI is priced around 120k whereas UA is around 130k and decent one stop options on major airlines like air China, Cathay, Turkish are around 70-80k. So your assumption that AI is always the cheapest - does not hold true. It’s the same situation with Del JFK and BOM EWR as well.


Well Sir,I guess you missed my complete point on why I used the term "BEST" and CHEAP together..and I have already CAPS LOCKED the word NON STOP in my earlier post and as someone who has Granma and Granpa and older folks TRANSIT options are NOT AN OPTION...Also having flown AI,UA on DEL-US multiple times and also once on BOM-AMS-ATLanta on Delta long time back I can say with my own experience that AI has the BEST and CHEAPEST FARES of NON STOP flights to the states if booked well in advance and its the best NON STOP option for Price cautious 90% of Indians like me and those who have OLDER FOLKS with them who cant bare stopping at Hong kong or Istanbul and wait for some time there and if the onward connection is delayed then keep hating themselves for taking the TRANSIT decision at the stake of their parents/Grandparents health and and comfort.
 
VTORD
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:59 am

FligtReporter wrote:
But thats because all the seats get booked so fast that when they see the huge demand they rise the price and thats how all the airlines booking system works.

For me when I or my parents or anyone from our family have to travel to the states we book our flights many months in advance and we get great deal and if you dont believe me..I request you to please google fares for 31/12/2019 from DEL-SFO
and as of today 17/06/2019 9:07 AM IST the prices are around 70K INR AI and 100,000+ On UA So the cheapest NON STOP Flights from INDIA to STATES and elsewhere in the world are only offered by AI


DEL - SFO 12/31/2019 - 01/15/2020. LOWEST ECONOMY Fares
AI N/S - INR 120,049
UA N/S - INR 120,090
EK 1/S - INR 107,031

This is not "googled". These are from the respective airline booking engines as of 10 minutes ago.

FligtReporter wrote:
as someone who has Granma and Granpa and older folks TRANSIT options are NOT AN OPTION

Says who? Plenty of "grandmas and grandpas" can be seen at sundry EU/ME hubs all the time. It is more common than you think.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:28 am

VTORD wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
But thats because all the seats get booked so fast that when they see the huge demand they rise the price and thats how all the airlines booking system works.

For me when I or my parents or anyone from our family have to travel to the states we book our flights many months in advance and we get great deal and if you dont believe me..I request you to please google fares for 31/12/2019 from DEL-SFO
and as of today 17/06/2019 9:07 AM IST the prices are around 70K INR AI and 100,000+ On UA So the cheapest NON STOP Flights from INDIA to STATES and elsewhere in the world are only offered by AI


DEL - SFO 12/31/2019 - 01/15/2020. LOWEST ECONOMY Fares
AI N/S - INR 120,049
UA N/S - INR 120,090
EK 1/S - INR 107,031

This is not "googled". These are from the respective airline booking engines as of 10 minutes ago.

FligtReporter wrote:
as someone who has Granma and Granpa and older folks TRANSIT options are NOT AN OPTION

Says who? Plenty of "grandmas and grandpas" can be seen at sundry EU/ME hubs all the time. It is more common than you think.


Well It may be a norm but different people have different choices..Mine dont like TRANSITS and prefer NON STOPs even if they have to pay a lil extra for that.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 18093
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:44 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Aviation pacts hurt national carriers: ED

With such kinds of reports in the media, I wonder how India will proceed on additional bilateral flying rights to Dubai.

Couldn't a new rule that denies 6th freedom rights on all the new capacity, under a new bilateral, fix the core issue?

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... epage=true

Why would anyone on the other side sign anything without more 6th freedom rights?

The ME3 are being bypassed with the latest aircraft. India to EU will benefit from the NMA, if launched.

India needs large airports built at high O&D cities with a cut in fuel taxes. Otherwise airlines with high premium traffic will dominate.

With DXB pretty much maxed out, EK will be patient.

India should become the 6th freedom hub to SE Asia from EU and to a lesser extent North America. Getting Infrastructure, taxes, and policies are key.

Think a Dubai in India.

Lightsaber


Agreed but which airline can even try to make that happen??? I would have hoped Vistara, but they seem on the slow train to nowhere. And Indigo Doesnt seem to have a long haul plan. Let’s see is Spice can come up with a strategy.

Indigo is wisely keeping to a one fleet plan. But for now, only HYD has low fuel taxes, but I do not see them having the O&D demand to host a major international to international hub.

The most likely is SpiceJet as you note. No other airline in India is large enough, nimble enough, and looking to expand into widebody aircraft.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 18093
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:44 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Aviation pacts hurt national carriers: ED

With such kinds of reports in the media, I wonder how India will proceed on additional bilateral flying rights to Dubai.

Couldn't a new rule that denies 6th freedom rights on all the new capacity, under a new bilateral, fix the core issue?

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... epage=true

Why would anyone on the other side sign anything without more 6th freedom rights?

The ME3 are being bypassed with the latest aircraft. India to EU will benefit from the NMA, if launched.

India needs large airports built at high O&D cities with a cut in fuel taxes. Otherwise airlines with high premium traffic will dominate.

With DXB pretty much maxed out, EK will be patient.

India should become the 6th freedom hub to SE Asia from EU and to a lesser extent North America. Getting Infrastructure, taxes, and policies are key.

Think a Dubai in India.

Lightsaber


Agreed but which airline can even try to make that happen??? I would have hoped Vistara, but they seem on the slow train to nowhere. And Indigo Doesnt seem to have a long haul plan. Let’s see is Spice can come up with a strategy.

Indigo is wisely keeping to a one fleet plan. But for now, only HYD has low fuel taxes, but I do not see them having the O&D demand to host a major international to international hub.

The most likely is SpiceJet as you note. No other airline in India is large enough, nimble enough, and looking to expand into widebody aircraft.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:01 am

BLR airport Q1 international numbers
Image

BLR >> HYD
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:44 am

The unthinkable has happened !! A321XLR can fly DEL-LHR non-stop

Image
https://twitter.com/LiveFromALounge/sta ... 3250081792

This could be the turning point in Indian aviation's long haul prospects forever. I can already imagine a 6E operated Asia-Europe megahub at DEL
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:59 am

Once again, who needs Jet Airways now?
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:23 am

anshabhi wrote:
The unthinkable has happened !! A321XLR can fly DEL-LHR non-stop

Image
https://twitter.com/LiveFromALounge/sta ... 3250081792

This could be the turning point in Indian aviation's long haul prospects forever. I can already imagine a 6E operated Asia-Europe megahub at DEL


I can already see IndiGo converting their A321LR into these ones..waita minute..So isnt this cheating by airbus ?
Like if this is their ULTRA LONG RANGE then why make a lower long range and sell it..Its like Iphone they launch a 5 then 6 then 7 and all of them are the same crappy phones with just a lill bigger screen and size and thats it.

With these ones IndiGo can easily fly to Tokyo,London,oslo,Switzerland,Frankfurt etc but then they already got played for a fool by Airbus lolz
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:28 am

unrave wrote:
Once again, who needs Jet Airways now?


What is Jet Airways anyways :lol:
 
binayak
Posts: 970
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:45 am

FligtReporter wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
The unthinkable has happened !! A321XLR can fly DEL-LHR non-stop

Image
https://twitter.com/LiveFromALounge/sta ... 3250081792

This could be the turning point in Indian aviation's long haul prospects forever. I can already imagine a 6E operated Asia-Europe megahub at DEL


I can already see IndiGo converting their A321LR into these ones..waita minute..So isnt this cheating by airbus ?
Like if this is their ULTRA LONG RANGE then why make a lower long range and sell it..Its like Iphone they launch a 5 then 6 then 7 and all of them are the same crappy phones with just a lill bigger screen and size and thats it.

With these ones IndiGo can easily fly to Tokyo,London,oslo,Switzerland,Frankfurt etc but then they already got played for a fool by Airbus lolz


Will the a321XLR be able to do those flights in an all economy high density configuration?
Generally manufacturers publish the maximum range of any new model so just because Airbus says it will do DEL LHR may or may not = IndiGo will fly non stop DEL LHR.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
killswitch13
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:52 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:51 am

Minister of Civil Aviation on his twitter profile has announced 4x weekly flights to Nairobi ex BOM and Amritsar via Patna ex BOM. Both begin on 27.09.2019
Last edited by killswitch13 on Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2110
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:51 am

AI Mumabi-Nairobi flight announced. to start ops from 27th sept 4 days a week

https://twitter.com/HardeepSPuri/status ... 2671028224

I honestly wonder how many possible flying hours has AI wasted so far that it's able to operate so many new flights without any new aircraft !! ??
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:57 am

binayak wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
The unthinkable has happened !! A321XLR can fly DEL-LHR non-stop

Image
https://twitter.com/LiveFromALounge/sta ... 3250081792

This could be the turning point in Indian aviation's long haul prospects forever. I can already imagine a 6E operated Asia-Europe megahub at DEL


I can already see IndiGo converting their A321LR into these ones..waita minute..So isnt this cheating by airbus ?
Like if this is their ULTRA LONG RANGE then why make a lower long range and sell it..Its like Iphone they launch a 5 then 6 then 7 and all of them are the same crappy phones with just a lill bigger screen and size and thats it.

With these ones IndiGo can easily fly to Tokyo,London,oslo,Switzerland,Frankfurt etc but then they already got played for a fool by Airbus lolz


Will the a321LR be able to do those flights in an all economy high density configuration?
Generally manufacturers publish the maximum range of any new model so just because Airbus says it will do DEL LHR may or may not = IndiGo will fly non stop DEL LHR.


A relief ..I dont wanna see IndiGo someday Eat AI up too however they r gov owned so no worries, but I reckon they will never fly ultra long haul like NON STOP NA flights.And if by any chance they do start a flight frm DEL-LHR I wonder how it would be for passengers sitting on a narrowbody for like 8-9 hours.

I hate to love IndiGo but they r the best LCC for me in the world let alone India..And it seems gradually they will shut all other LCCs and may put UK's business in jeapordy too and looking at the INDIGO domination in India its likely they might come up with their own country wise IndiGo like IndiGo Thai,IndiGo japan etc lol
 
chinmay17shetye
Posts: 72
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:02 am

FligtReporter wrote:

But thats because all the seats get booked so fast that when they see the huge demand they rise the price and thats how all the airlines booking system works.

For me when I or my parents or anyone from our family have to travel to the states we book our flights many months in advance and we get great deal and if you dont believe me..I request you to please google fares for 31/12/2019 from DEL-SFO
and as of today 17/06/2019 9:07 AM IST the prices are around 70K INR AI and 100,000+ On UA So the cheapest NON STOP Flights from INDIA to STATES and elsewhere in the world are only offered by AI and thats why all seats are booked well in advance and those folks who come late have to go through 1 Stop service or hefty UA and No Indian person with Old parents and chilren would want that so at times many Indians prefer paying extra for an AI flight than others.

So AI,any given second of the day ,is the best choice for me and majority of indians.


Your logic is really flawed here. You are taking fare data for a specific day as an identifier for the average fares of the route. There are a lot of other things you should probably consider.

I'm not trying to debate if AI is cheaper than UA. It might be/it might not be. The only way you can know is by access to a subscription based portal which can show route data and price trends.

A lot of times, the prices for VFR pax can be very different from an average fare on that particular route. Your post mentions only one type of passenger. There are multiple other types like business, connecting, tourist, etc. The airlines have different pricing strategies to attract these pax.

Also, a greater number of booked seats doesn't always equal higher prices. The aim is to maximise revenue so if the airline starts it's lowest RBD at a high value (comparatively), fares aren't going to increase much. But if the route has a lot of leisure traffic, the first RBD can be very low (sometimes below cost as we see in the domestic market).
Airlines have a LOT of data for any particular route which can be used very efficiently to predict how many pax the airline can expect.

Personal opinion - I have never seen AI have great revenue management. Most times, they have been to slow to react to the market and I am guessing that's kind of why you can see very high/very low load factors. This is maybe why on some lucky day you might get an AI fare really cheap.

Separately - you mentioned your grandparents preferring ULH non stop. A lot of elderly actually prefer having a layover as sitting in one seat for 16 hours at that age is torture. Most airlines provide full assistance to senior citizens during the layover so getting lost is not really an issue. Also, the foreign carriers are not as bad as you portray them.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:09 am

anshabhi wrote:
AI Mumabi-Nairobi flight announced. to start ops from 27th sept 4 days a week

https://twitter.com/HardeepSPuri/status ... 2671028224

I honestly wonder how many possible flying hours has AI wasted so far that it's able to operate so many new flights without any new aircraft !! ??


Noo Man...why on earth would they launch a flight on the sector which already has an airline operating ? If Im not wrong KA operates daily flights on BOM-NBI-BOM.However if they do get a good load on this flight I'd be very very happy for AI..I just hope now they dont launch Nigeria routes too for that will be a waste like LITERALLY.

So With this AI will have conectivity to 5 Continents..YaaY,..!

But I just hope you make profit,Retrain the ground staff uncles and aunties and fix the overall CHALTA HAI attitude of all the staff AI,Beause I just hate to love you ,like I dont want to but then Im left with no choice.

Good Luck with AFRICA AI !!
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:27 am

chinmay17shetye wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:

But thats because all the seats get booked so fast that when they see the huge demand they rise the price and thats how all the airlines booking system works.

For me when I or my parents or anyone from our family have to travel to the states we book our flights many months in advance and we get great deal and if you dont believe me..I request you to please google fares for 31/12/2019 from DEL-SFO
and as of today 17/06/2019 9:07 AM IST the prices are around 70K INR AI and 100,000+ On UA So the cheapest NON STOP Flights from INDIA to STATES and elsewhere in the world are only offered by AI and thats why all seats are booked well in advance and those folks who come late have to go through 1 Stop service or hefty UA and No Indian person with Old parents and chilren would want that so at times many Indians prefer paying extra for an AI flight than others.

So AI,any given second of the day ,is the best choice for me and majority of indians.


Your logic is really flawed here. You are taking fare data for a specific day as an identifier for the average fares of the route. There are a lot of other things you should probably consider.

I'm not trying to debate if AI is cheaper than UA. It might be/it might not be. The only way you can know is by access to a subscription based portal which can show route data and price trends.

A lot of times, the prices for VFR pax can be very different from an average fare on that particular route. Your post mentions only one type of passenger. There are multiple other types like business, connecting, tourist, etc. The airlines have different pricing strategies to attract these pax.

Also, a greater number of booked seats doesn't always equal higher prices. The aim is to maximise revenue so if the airline starts it's lowest RBD at a high value (comparatively), fares aren't going to increase much. But if the route has a lot of leisure traffic, the first RBD can be very low (sometimes below cost as we see in the domestic market).
Airlines have a LOT of data for any particular route which can be used very efficiently to predict how many pax the airline can expect.

Personal opinion - I have never seen AI have great revenue management. Most times, they have been to slow to react to the market and I am guessing that's kind of why you can see very high/very low load factors. This is maybe why on some lucky day you might get an AI fare really cheap.

Separately - you mentioned your grandparents preferring ULH non stop. A lot of elderly actually prefer having a layover as sitting in one seat for 16 hours at that age is torture. Most airlines provide full assistance to senior citizens during the layover so getting lost is not really an issue. Also, the foreign carriers are not as bad as you portray them.


Thanx for your coherent elaboration of the ticket pricing issue.I wrote based on my personal experience and what I hear from my folks so Im no way trying to be an expert on pricings and ticketing stuff cause Im not an expert on that and I value those people who love to make folks like me understand the aviation industry much better.I like your explanation and thanks for your your opinion.

Secondly,I understand different people have different style of travelling.In my granparents case they dont prefer transits so we cant force them to go from SFO-IST-DEL-LKO Or SFO-HKG-CCU/DEL/BOM-LKO...and Im not potraying Foreign cariers as bad I have nothing against them..as I Mentioned earlier I speak on the basis of my personal experience and I have had some horrible experiences with BA,UA,AF etc and I dont even wanna get into the whole thing and I have also flown Delta,Air Canada Domestically which have been really good for me so I dont generalize the whole Foreign airlines as one type.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:58 pm

binayak wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
The unthinkable has happened !! A321XLR can fly DEL-LHR non-stop

Image
https://twitter.com/LiveFromALounge/sta ... 3250081792

This could be the turning point in Indian aviation's long haul prospects forever. I can already imagine a 6E operated Asia-Europe megahub at DEL


I can already see IndiGo converting their A321LR into these ones..waita minute..So isnt this cheating by airbus ?
Like if this is their ULTRA LONG RANGE then why make a lower long range and sell it..Its like Iphone they launch a 5 then 6 then 7 and all of them are the same crappy phones with just a lill bigger screen and size and thats it.

With these ones IndiGo can easily fly to Tokyo,London,oslo,Switzerland,Frankfurt etc but then they already got played for a fool by Airbus lolz


Will the a321XLR be able to do those flights in an all economy high density configuration?
Generally manufacturers publish the maximum range of any new model so just because Airbus says it will do DEL LHR may or may not = IndiGo will fly non stop DEL LHR.


In an all economy configuration, will an Airbus a321 xlr have a lower cost per available seat kilometer (casm)than that of an Airbus a330 neo? (Assume both aircraft are all economy). If so, what is the percentage savings in CASM
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1089
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:16 pm

anshabhi wrote:
AI Mumabi-Nairobi flight announced. to start ops from 27th sept 4 days a week

https://twitter.com/HardeepSPuri/status ... 2671028224

I honestly wonder how many possible flying hours has AI wasted so far that it's able to operate so many new flights without any new aircraft !! ??


I wonder how much this will affect KQ - they down gauged their NBO-BOM flight to 2 flights a day on 737 (for 6 hours). Won't premium pax move to AI assuming they offer a 787 on the route? I know KQ gets a ton of connecting pax, but still I would imagine the nonstop O&D is their bread and butter.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:22 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
AI Mumabi-Nairobi flight announced. to start ops from 27th sept 4 days a week

https://twitter.com/HardeepSPuri/status ... 2671028224

I honestly wonder how many possible flying hours has AI wasted so far that it's able to operate so many new flights without any new aircraft !! ??


Noo Man...why on earth would they launch a flight on the sector which already has an airline operating ? If Im not wrong KA operates daily flights on BOM-NBI-BOM.However if they do get a good load on this flight I'd be very very happy for AI..I just hope now they dont launch Nigeria routes too for that will be a waste like LITERALLY.

So With this AI will have conectivity to 5 Continents..YaaY,..!

But I just hope you make profit,Retrain the ground staff uncles and aunties and fix the overall CHALTA HAI attitude of all the staff AI,Beause I just hate to love you ,like I dont want to but then Im left with no choice.

Good Luck with AFRICA AI !!


I am with you. None of my relatives prefer to transit on their way to India. If they do many actually don't mind AI's JFK-DEL-BOM flight because they are comfortable connecting at DEL. That said, they don't always have the choice for a nonstop. But this is why AI usually gets a premium. Sure they have sale fares, and I don't doubt you got good fares, but in general AI has been seeing a premium on these nonstops because (1) the example you gave of older people and (2) they offer an afternoon arrival which allows for same day connections to a ton of India, even road journeys, that are much harder when you land at 1am. And I fully recognize there are older people that won't pay a premium for a nonstop and will suffer through a connection. But I am willing to bet those that prefer the stop are a small percentage of the total. The stretch your leg crew in the days os so much security, cancelled flights, etc are small. Anet people tend to love airports, but they are not the norm.
 
yashk
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:26 pm

deleted
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:59 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
AI Mumabi-Nairobi flight announced. to start ops from 27th sept 4 days a week

https://twitter.com/HardeepSPuri/status ... 2671028224

I honestly wonder how many possible flying hours has AI wasted so far that it's able to operate so many new flights without any new aircraft !! ??


Noo Man...why on earth would they launch a flight on the sector which already has an airline operating ? If Im not wrong KA operates daily flights on BOM-NBI-BOM.However if they do get a good load on this flight I'd be very very happy for AI..I just hope now they dont launch Nigeria routes too for that will be a waste like LITERALLY.

So With this AI will have conectivity to 5 Continents..YaaY,..!

But I just hope you make profit,Retrain the ground staff uncles and aunties and fix the overall CHALTA HAI attitude of all the staff AI,Beause I just hate to love you ,like I dont want to but then Im left with no choice.

Good Luck with AFRICA AI !!


I am with you. None of my relatives prefer to transit on their way to India. If they do many actually don't mind AI's JFK-DEL-BOM flight because they are comfortable connecting at DEL. That said, they don't always have the choice for a nonstop. But this is why AI usually gets a premium. Sure they have sale fares, and I don't doubt you got good fares, but in general AI has been seeing a premium on these nonstops because (1) the example you gave of older people and (2) they offer an afternoon arrival which allows for same day connections to a ton of India, even road journeys, that are much harder when you land at 1am. And I fully recognize there are older people that won't pay a premium for a nonstop and will suffer through a connection. But I am willing to bet those that prefer the stop are a small percentage of the total. The stretch your leg crew in the days os so much security, cancelled flights, etc are small. Anet people tend to love airports, but they are not the norm.


You Nailed it Mr.California thats exactly why my family depends on AI given the fact that not all Indians live in Big Cities like Delhi and Mumbai this is why those who live closest to cities where there is a direct flight from they choose that.In My Case My base is VILK ( Lucknow ) and when we fly from SFO-DEL or DEL-SFO followings are our considerations -:

1.What time of the day the flight is departing and Arriving at destination
2.Connection time in Delhi *As VIDP is our PRIMARY PREFERRED TRANSIT*
3.What should we opt as our mode of transportation to Delhi ( CAR is our preferred ) but also Flights at times
4.Then comes the price


its almost like flying Non stop from Lucknow as the connection between LKO-DEL is great and without losing much time we clear immigration and on our way to SFO also as the timing is amazing .I have flown this DEL-SFO-DEL route twice with my grandparents and Once my older folks have travelled alone and Its our preferred choice.Before DEL-SFO it was troublesome especially for my granparents as we had to fly to JFK or LHR and then from their to SFO..So AI is a blessing.

People need to understand that India is not only DEL,BOM,BLR,MAA,HYD there are more cities and towns where it takes people time to travel and the time of the day also matters if your taking a road trip or train cause you cant always take flights so there is a lot to consider before booking a flight.
 
FligtReporter
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:02 pm

Great News From AI..New Flights will be connecting INDIA to BALI ( Indonesia ) from 27th Sep 2019.

DEL-MAA-BALI probably A320Neo

I love this expansion of AI :couple:
To Yo Face 6E ( U still my favourite LCC though ) :D
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:13 pm

^^They don't seem keen to utilise spare capacity to seize available slots at DEL/BOM and instead launching so many int'l flights now, using their A320Neo's.
 
FligtReporter
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:25 pm

avier wrote:
^^They don't seem keen to utilise spare capacity to seize available slots at DEL/BOM and instead launching so many int'l flights now, using their A320Neo's.


For me this expansion is as extatically surprising as watching Katy perry in TayTay's Single "You Need to Calm Down" ....AI is givin me LIFE with this route...YAsss AI..Yaaasss..! :smile:


I actualy like this DEL-MAA-BALI sector as its a great connection for all over the country means north Indian plus south Indian traffic can utilize it thats a good option and Im sure if demand increases they might upgrade to A321 but I think they should thinkin or ordering 321XLR and phase out the older 321s, which could be utilized on log haul flights as per the demand so that dont have to fly a half empty 788.
 
airboss787
Posts: 81
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:45 pm

anshabhi wrote:
AI Mumabi-Nairobi flight announced. to start ops from 27th sept 4 days a week

https://twitter.com/HardeepSPuri/status ... 2671028224

I honestly wonder how many possible flying hours has AI wasted so far that it's able to operate so many new flights without any new aircraft !! ??


That is great news. I see this route doing well for Air India. It does not mention equipment, but I assume it'll 320neo and not a 787.
Star Alliance Gold
 
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trinidadeG
Posts: 80
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:24 pm

anshabhi wrote:
AI Mumabi-Nairobi flight announced. to start ops from 27th sept 4 days a week

https://twitter.com/HardeepSPuri/status ... 2671028224

I honestly wonder how many possible flying hours has AI wasted so far that it's able to operate so many new flights without any new aircraft !! ??

I had heard that AI had grounded a sizeable number of aircraft for want of spares. So perhaps all those planes seem to be getting airworthy slowly. Not in a hurry, I guess,. The new flights are only due a few months away in Sept/October. AI also plans to re-instate the 787 on its DEL-COK-DXB rotation that was down-gauged to a narrow-body (indirectly because of Pak border closure). Points to an availability of more frames, methinks.

So far, the announced routes only seem to use up one 777 (to Toronto), One 787 (to NBO) and one frame (possibly an A320NEO) to DPS. And there's still spare capacity on the NBO plane to fly to another destination from BOM (edit: Seems like that's going to be BOM-HKG). So I feel that there is room for a lot more new flights if they can get their entire fleet working.
Last edited by trinidadeG on Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:40 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
AI Mumabi-Nairobi flight announced. to start ops from 27th sept 4 days a week

https://twitter.com/HardeepSPuri/status ... 2671028224

I honestly wonder how many possible flying hours has AI wasted so far that it's able to operate so many new flights without any new aircraft !! ??

I had heard that AI had grounded a sizeable number of aircraft for want of spares. So perhaps all those planes seem to be getting airworthy slowly. Not in a hurry, I guess,. The new flights are only due a few months away in Sept/October. AI also plans to re-instate the 787 on its DEL-COK-DXB rotation that was down-gauged to a narrow-body (indirectly because of Pak border closure). Points to an availability of more frames, methinks.

So far, the announced routes only seem to use up one 777 (to Toronto), One 787 (to NBO) and one frame (possibly an A320NEO) to DPS. And there's still spare capacity on the NBO plane to fly to another destination from BOM. So I feel that there is room for a lot more new flights if they can get their entire fleet working.


Im loving this new expansion finally AI is truly acting like a FLAG CARIER Flying to 5 Continents now..I think it would be great if AI could extend the BOM-Nairobi to Sao Paulo or some South American city and In sure they will get good Traffic for there r many folks who would love to travel to India Direct without changing planes and currently no Connectivity between IND and South AM.
 
unnayan
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:02 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
AI Mumabi-Nairobi flight announced. to start ops from 27th sept 4 days a week

https://twitter.com/HardeepSPuri/status ... 2671028224

I honestly wonder how many possible flying hours has AI wasted so far that it's able to operate so many new flights without any new aircraft !! ??

I had heard that AI had grounded a sizeable number of aircraft for want of spares. So perhaps all those planes seem to be getting airworthy slowly. Not in a hurry, I guess,. The new flights are only due a few months away in Sept/October. AI also plans to re-instate the 787 on its DEL-COK-DXB rotation that was down-gauged to a narrow-body (indirectly because of Pak border closure). Points to an availability of more frames, methinks.

So far, the announced routes only seem to use up one 777 (to Toronto), One 787 (to NBO) and one frame (possibly an A320NEO) to DPS. And there's still spare capacity on the NBO plane to fly to another destination from BOM. So I feel that there is room for a lot more new flights if they can get their entire fleet working.


Im loving this new expansion finally AI is truly acting like a FLAG CARIER Flying to 5 Continents now..I think it would be great if AI could extend the BOM-Nairobi to Sao Paulo or some South American city and In sure they will get good Traffic for there r many folks who would love to travel to India Direct without changing planes and currently no Connectivity between IND and South AM.



Sao Paolo :o

Why?? Isn't AI in huge loss already? What traffic will it cater?
 
binayak
Posts: 970
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:04 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
AI Mumabi-Nairobi flight announced. to start ops from 27th sept 4 days a week

https://twitter.com/HardeepSPuri/status ... 2671028224

I honestly wonder how many possible flying hours has AI wasted so far that it's able to operate so many new flights without any new aircraft !! ??

I had heard that AI had grounded a sizeable number of aircraft for want of spares. So perhaps all those planes seem to be getting airworthy slowly. Not in a hurry, I guess,. The new flights are only due a few months away in Sept/October. AI also plans to re-instate the 787 on its DEL-COK-DXB rotation that was down-gauged to a narrow-body (indirectly because of Pak border closure). Points to an availability of more frames, methinks.

So far, the announced routes only seem to use up one 777 (to Toronto), One 787 (to NBO) and one frame (possibly an A320NEO) to DPS. And there's still spare capacity on the NBO plane to fly to another destination from BOM. So I feel that there is room for a lot more new flights if they can get their entire fleet working.


Im loving this new expansion finally AI is truly acting like a FLAG CARIER Flying to 5 Continents now..I think it would be great if AI could extend the BOM-Nairobi to Sao Paulo or some South American city and In sure they will get good Traffic for there r many folks who would love to travel to India Direct without changing planes and currently no Connectivity between IND and South AM.


There's hardly any traffic to South America to justify a flight from India..
On a side note, AI should try restarting its old African routes to Dar-es-Salaam, Johannesburg and Cairo.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
aarbee
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:10 pm

avier wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
I have no hopes for AI being privatised ...
...Vistara seems to offer a much better product in FSC comparin the two..So it seems 6E will continue to be the largest carier however They will have to induct wide bodies or they would remain just a regional airline whereas UK and AI will reap the benefits of Long haul...Lets see.


Regarding your question of; will Vistara will be the lone FSC if AI disappears, I don't think so. I suspect some other carrier existing (Spice or GoAir) or new may join the fray i.e either through a hybrid model (like Spicebiz) or a new setup by some big conglomerates..

This hybrid model is scary. One of the issue with Jet in the last few years was was that they had an identity crisis for domestic operations. Were they FSC or were they no frills service wearing the designer gown of FSC.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
VTORD
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:21 pm

binayak wrote:

There's hardly any traffic to South America to justify a flight from India..
On a side note, AI should try restarting its old African routes to Dar-es-Salaam, Johannesburg and Cairo.

What about Lagos? Quite a bit of expat employment traffic there though I believe now we maybe 787 territory a/c range wise
 
VTORD
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:25 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
People need to understand that India is not only DEL,BOM,BLR,MAA,HYD there are more cities and towns where it takes people time to travel and the time of the day also matters if your taking a road trip or train cause you cant always take flights so there is a lot to consider before booking a flight.

Hmmm let's see....nope I'll pass. Not touching that debate with a 10 foot pole again (at least for the time being) :stirthepot:
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:25 pm

aarbee wrote:
avier wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
I have no hopes for AI being privatised ...
...Vistara seems to offer a much better product in FSC comparin the two..So it seems 6E will continue to be the largest carier however They will have to induct wide bodies or they would remain just a regional airline whereas UK and AI will reap the benefits of Long haul...Lets see.


Regarding your question of; will Vistara will be the lone FSC if AI disappears, I don't think so. I suspect some other carrier existing (Spice or GoAir) or new may join the fray i.e either through a hybrid model (like Spicebiz) or a new setup by some big conglomerates..

This hybrid model is scary. One of the issue with Jet in the last few years was was that they had an identity crisis for domestic operations. Were they FSC or were they no frills service wearing the designer gown of FSC.

-R


Thats exactly what Kingfisher did with Deccan tried LCC and same with Jet airways how they tried LCC with JetLite..Guess UK is getting to feel the reality of Indian market.I wont lay my love on UK being a private carier..God knows what will happen to it once Mr.R.Tata departs to the other side.So my favourite will continue to be AI ( just hope the ground staff and management improves ) for at least I know it will not shut down and run away with my money be it under gov or some other private firm.I feel sad for those folks who still havent gotten their refunds from Jet and probably will never get.

Now a days being a flag carier has it perks I guess Alitalia and Air India are the brightest examples :lol:
 
aarbee
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:37 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
...I wonder what the min connectivity Vistara would need at BOM to maintain a min long haul network out of BOM - say LHR 2X and 1X to 2 EU hubs (so 4 daily long haul flights).


Where would Vistara get the money to buy these slots in the open market? Without money they have to wait for AI to die, so GoI will give away AI's slots to the airlines on the nice list. 9W was wishing for the same before it went down.

Indian aviation methods didn't change, just players are changing.


And it appears all those who "WISHED" for AI to die DIED themselves :rotfl:

Honestly I believe AI is probably gonna fly forEVER thats different case as to who owns it But Im certain that AI is the only Indian airline that Will continue to fly and Why ?

1.Its GOI's darling and they have kept it afloat for the last 74+ years and will continue to do so for theres not only an Emotional touch but also it has its own unique identity and as ironical as it may sound but thats true

2.AI being gov owned flies to many indian towns ans cities where no Private carier dares to fly like Agra,Khajuraho,Shimla,Ludhiana,Pasighat,Pantnagar etc and I think govt does sort of cashes in on its policy of making the common man of every small town fly.
So AI sort of acts as a tool for the GOI

3.I believe their diplomacy also plays AI as a tool to use in making relations better with other countries like recently AI being given SPECIAL Status of being the only Commercial Airline in the world to fly over Oman and KSA enroute Israel.


And Lastly to those who keep praying and wishing for AI to die have actually gone themselves like Kingfishers and Now 9W...I would suggest UK to stay away from this thought of wishing for AI to die etc but concentrate on their own business for AI is a mess that gov has created itself and given the mess AI its like an entity No gov under their regime would want to be responsible for the Demise of..so Be it Modi or Congress No one would wanna have the tittle of "Oh They Killed the Maharaja" etc or "First they Killed 9W and nw AI" and this is the truth.


Now AI haters or those who Wish AI to die should actually wish for Indian population to go down instead for as long as India will have a huge Middle class Huge number of people contributin to the economy the gov will get richer and the richer the gov will get the more it will pump in the money to AI :lol:

So AI isnt going anywhere anytime SOON i reckon !



You have some valid points above. IMO the that's where the earlier model of IC and AI was were very suitable. AI taking care of long haul international and being the brand ambassador of India (in ideal world ;) ) and IC being the arm domestic and regional diplomacy tool.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:43 pm

unrave wrote:
Yet another article that highlights the gross mismanagement of Air India under the previous government

https://www.financialexpress.com/opinio ... s/1605836/

But but according to some AI would have not gone anywhere if they had bought 10 A343s. But now it's in its prime glory with order of 60+ 777 & 787 (a aircraft not even in production) given to a favored vendor (sarcasm).

-R
Love the AIXes
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:04 pm

aarbee wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Where would Vistara get the money to buy these slots in the open market? Without money they have to wait for AI to die, so GoI will give away AI's slots to the airlines on the nice list. 9W was wishing for the same before it went down.

Indian aviation methods didn't change, just players are changing.


And it appears all those who "WISHED" for AI to die DIED themselves :rotfl:

Honestly I believe AI is probably gonna fly forEVER thats different case as to who owns it But Im certain that AI is the only Indian airline that Will continue to fly and Why ?

1.Its GOI's darling and they have kept it afloat for the last 74+ years and will continue to do so for theres not only an Emotional touch but also it has its own unique identity and as ironical as it may sound but thats true

2.AI being gov owned flies to many indian towns ans cities where no Private carier dares to fly like Agra,Khajuraho,Shimla,Ludhiana,Pasighat,Pantnagar etc and I think govt does sort of cashes in on its policy of making the common man of every small town fly.
So AI sort of acts as a tool for the GOI

3.I believe their diplomacy also plays AI as a tool to use in making relations better with other countries like recently AI being given SPECIAL Status of being the only Commercial Airline in the world to fly over Oman and KSA enroute Israel.


And Lastly to those who keep praying and wishing for AI to die have actually gone themselves like Kingfishers and Now 9W...I would suggest UK to stay away from this thought of wishing for AI to die etc but concentrate on their own business for AI is a mess that gov has created itself and given the mess AI its like an entity No gov under their regime would want to be responsible for the Demise of..so Be it Modi or Congress No one would wanna have the tittle of "Oh They Killed the Maharaja" etc or "First they Killed 9W and nw AI" and this is the truth.


Now AI haters or those who Wish AI to die should actually wish for Indian population to go down instead for as long as India will have a huge Middle class Huge number of people contributin to the economy the gov will get richer and the richer the gov will get the more it will pump in the money to AI :lol:

So AI isnt going anywhere anytime SOON i reckon !



You have some valid points above. IMO the that's where the earlier model of IC and AI was were very suitable. AI taking care of long haul international and being the brand ambassador of India (in ideal world ;) ) and IC being the arm domestic and regional diplomacy tool.

-R


You know I have a close neighbour uncle who is in Flight Operations and he told me rcently (2-3 days from now )about a statement which led me to believe why AI and Private Airlines is just not comparable in terms of Loses and proft.Now if you know me,Im obsessed with AI :lol: ( I love it and hate it for various reasons) So I asked him -:

Me- "Uncle is the Gov not doing enough to revive Jet ?"
He-"Forget it son,Jet Airways is dead"
Me-"What the CAPITAL F :shock: Seriously..but why you say this"
He-"Government has trapped it in a way that now its impossible for Jet to ever fly again"
Me-"But AI has more losses than Jet so why it stll flies and gov just thinks of Its employees and not Jet's"
He-"You know A big Minister has stated recently in a meeting when asked about Jet's revival that ( Air India is Our Son,Jet Airways Is Neighbours Son) So if your smart you'll know why AI still flies and Gov doesnt care for Jet"

I hope now you would also know why I wrote what i did.
Last edited by FligtReporter on Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
devmapper
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:04 pm

aarbee wrote:
This hybrid model is scary. One of the issue with Jet in the last few years was was that they had an identity crisis for domestic operations. Were they FSC or were they no frills service wearing the designer gown of FSC.

-R


Well, 9W tried to be everything to everyone. They wanted to be a FSC for premium passengers, and a LCC for those who prefer to pay as little as possible for a 2-3 hour domestic flight. If UK can tune their product to appeal primarily at passengers looking for an upgrade to the 6E cattle class, with an amazing FFP that can be used for international travel and upgrades, they should be able to carve out a niche. Keep in mind India is a status conscious country, so a clever marketing campaign to sell UK's product as a "respite" from the hoi-polloi should appeal to the egos of a chunk of passengers with some pricing leeway. As far as I remember, IT was doing pretty well as an "aspirational" brand before they went crazy with their widebody orders and DN purchase. The balance they'd have to find is how to profitably offer frequency to J and Y+ passengers without flying with half-empty frames. Perhaps they'd want to drop their current J seat and look for ways to sell an upgraded Y+ product as a close approximation to increase density.

The A321XLR should also enable UK to open up point-to-point routes serving J class passengers that are underserved (BLR/MAA-ICN/TYO), as well as explore codeshares with smaller EU airlines (like OS or SN) to let their core constituency visit "aspirational" vacation destinations should be profitable. I am not sure 6E would have the medium-haul market out of India sewn up as many here think, because after the initial novelty wears off, people would be looking for more bang for buck and 6E's inboard product might not be satisfactory. UK should be able to provide an acceptable product.
 
aarbee
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:25 pm

edealinfo wrote:
killswitch13 wrote:
^^^ sardar civil aviation minister fulfilling his fantasies with taxpayers money

Every politician tries to maximize service to his or her constituency.
And, rightly so....that’s why they get elected........” to bring home the bacon”.

There's a stark difference in Indian system. The executive has to be the part of the legislature.
"Every politician tries to maximize service to his or her constituency. " ---> True

And, rightly so....that’s why they get elected........” to bring home the bacon”.
Partly true. To bring home the bacon by convincing the appropriate ministry/bureaucrats that their constituency needs it.

The difference being no politician gets elected to be the minister of the Civil Aviation. The minister serves at the pleasure of Prime Minister/party/(legally) President and not being the minister of the constituency.

Having said that historically, what I described is an exception. E.g. the railway ministry has behaved more like Railway minister of Bihar, RM of Karnataka, RM of West Bengal, etc.

edealinfo wrote:
And, there is a market for the flight he introduced.

In this case, I think that's its a pure co-incidence that CA Minister seems to have an vested interest . Point in case CA minster Puri did not even win the Lok Sabha seat (He contested from Amritsar and was defeated).

The market can be further nurtured. It would have more popularity if it was DEL-ATQ-YYZ as well as understand the fact that this would be more VFR route and not have fancy dreams of running this flight on the backs of Business class revenue.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
devmapper
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:30 pm

aarbee wrote:
unrave wrote:
Yet another article that highlights the gross mismanagement of Air India under the previous government

https://www.financialexpress.com/opinio ... s/1605836/

But but according to some AI would have not gone anywhere if they had bought 10 A343s. But now it's in its prime glory with order of 60+ 777 & 787 (a aircraft not even in production) given to a favored vendor (sarcasm).

-R


Ooh, imagine AI flying the gas-guzzling A343s today. :duck:

It is however true that AI ordered way too many planes. I mean they ordered 27 788s to fly where exactly? I think 15 frames would have been more than enough. I still don't understand why they ordered the 77L, and why did they not take the PIP 77Ws with the extra tanks to make all of the possible DEL-NA flights work. This is where a professional management would have benefitted AI, since they'd be more nimble in adapting to changing market conditions and adapted their orders accordingly. I still remember, before the final 7 788s were delivered, Boeing offered the 789 to AI, which would have had the legs to make flights to the US East coast and also be profitable enough to fly daily to IAD and perhaps even BOS. But the AI board decided to pass on that offer. There was even a followup hare-brained scheme to lease additional 789s.

There are a couple of caveats to that though. AI had underinvested through the 80s and 90s, so it had to pull out of a number of markets it had served historically. Just based on the markets AI was serving when the orders were placed, a right sized order would probably have been 10 A330s. That would never have let AI expand to the India-NA non-stop markets, which I think is probably up there with the Gulf routes as the least loss-making.

The second caveat is the half-**sed way GOI integrated AI and IC. Yes, AI did benefit from local connections feeding its international flights, but the rest of IC's operations was terrible. I think without the merger, the GOI would have had to wind-up IC by 2005, and that would hurt some folks' electoral chances. Without the additional burden of trying to compete with the LCCs domestically, AI would have been in much better financial shape.

Does anyone know if the large aircraft orders were a political carrot designed to get the Indo-US nuclear deal over the line?
 
aarbee
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:44 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
aarbee wrote:
I have never flown Vistara as yet. But with SQ and Tata backing, I'm sure it will be well managed.

"I wont want them to make haste descisions like 9W" --> This is what I have been saying. Let it organically evolve as per their own business plans. (That does not make me Jet hater)

-R


True..Even Im not a Jet hater cause theres no need to hate an airline thats not even there lolz Haters must be happy though.I agree Vistara with half of its higher management handled by SIA folks who are obviously very professional and know what to do to make profits at the same time delivering the best experience.

Im flying them next month and its gona be after a very long time So I will see if they still maintain that standard of service or not.


Never hated Jet, not even it's hay days, nor when it was diving. Though quite disappointed at its domestic product in the last 2-3 years because of it's major identity crisis Jet/JetLite/JetKonnect .... Low service airline in the garb of FSC.

Look forward to hearing your experiences on UK on the next flight.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:53 pm

unrave wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
But hey small town India gets a foreign flight and cheap fares. This has never been about cheap fares for NRIs - many of us are alliance captive and pay premiums to fly our alliance, be it coach or business class. But that story doesn't work for the remarks here.


Lol what?! How many NRIs do you think are alliance captive? The vast majority of them are VFR traffic who choose the airline on the basis of price.

I used to be till about 10 years back. What changed?
- the availability of ME3 flights and NO further need to go to BOM.
- peanuts being thrown in guise of miles.

:)
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:01 pm

VTORD wrote:
Key phrase: "could". That is as much on EY as it is on 9W. EY re-timed half of their US/NA bank flights which messed with onward connections to/from non-BOM/DEL/BLR stations. Poor execution of strategy is not the fault of the strategy itself. Note: of the remaining EY stations in the US, ORD has been reverted back to the evening departure from the US side.

One of the main reasons for re-timing the flights was pre-clearance at AUH. They had gate space, but Customs, immigration, security folks were probably not enough.

-R
Love the AIXes

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