FligtReporter
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:22 pm

And just as i thought AI will continue to fly over Iran this news comes in that they are considering an alternate routing to EU and USA.

https://wap.business-standard.com/artic ... 389_1.html
 
 
aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:39 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
If Vistara is getting all the FSC intl carriers to code share with it, perhaps it should try launching 3am flights from BOM like Jet had - I think DEL, AMD, BLR, HYD, MAA and CCu had flights (but not sure list is right)

That would be recipe for disaster.

Don't get me wrong, I would like to have easy connections. Before Vistara to run 3 AM flights, it needs to establish better pan-India routes and be in contention to be a market leader.

-R


Why do you feel it is a recipe for a disaster? If there is a market for INTL to DOM connections, I actually think it is a no brainer for UK. That said, I have no idea how 9W did on their 3am block. In general overnight flights can be profitable if there is a market for it. Main reason is that planes usually sit idle over night (so lower opportunity cost) add to that BOM has slots at 3am. But again I have no idea how much airlines paid Jet/AI or Indigo for connections at DEL/BOM at 3am.

I THINK Vistara's primary priority should be capitalize on this opportunity provided by Jets shutdown and capture the FSC domestic market in India. I would think that costs for night time flights would be higher. Also I have seen (an utilized) those flights which when not at capacity have throw away fares. I do not believe they could be money makers.

My suggestion would be to keep focus on catering the domestic clientele before jumping into expanding the services for international clientele.

-R
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aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:44 pm

Slash787 wrote:
Chop Onions? are they Flight Attendants or Kaam Wali Bai? LOL


My goodness. Cannot believe that this stuff is happening.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

I know. The heat up the meal is fine. Everything else should be a no no. I get that Indians have many dietary needs but tiffins from home in the cockpit - who knew.

True. And anything over an beyond if the FA obliges should be considered a favor and have the courtesy to Thank them and move on. Fighting --- Jeez

-R
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CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:44 pm

aarbee wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:
That would be recipe for disaster.

Don't get me wrong, I would like to have easy connections. Before Vistara to run 3 AM flights, it needs to establish better pan-India routes and be in contention to be a market leader.

-R


Why do you feel it is a recipe for a disaster? If there is a market for INTL to DOM connections, I actually think it is a no brainer for UK. That said, I have no idea how 9W did on their 3am block. In general overnight flights can be profitable if there is a market for it. Main reason is that planes usually sit idle over night (so lower opportunity cost) add to that BOM has slots at 3am. But again I have no idea how much airlines paid Jet/AI or Indigo for connections at DEL/BOM at 3am.

I THINK Vistara's primary priority should be capitalize on this opportunity provided by Jets shutdown and capture the FSC domestic market in India. I would think that costs for night time flights would be higher. Also I have seen (an utilized) those flights which when not at capacity have throw away fares. I do not believe they could be money makers.

My suggestion would be to keep focus on catering the domestic clientele before jumping into expanding the services for international clientele.

-R


I don't think it is a zero sum game. They should absolutely focus on daytime, mainstream domestic flights first. But airlines love to have their planes flying overnight instead of sitting idle. The issue is the limited number of routes that can support an overnight / late night flight. If there is a market where Vistara can make money in flying INTL-DOM connectors at 3am, they should go for it because it takes away nothing from their daytime flying.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:50 pm

killswitch13 wrote:


I thought Pakistan had humiliated India in the airstrike affair, so why keep the airspace closed (btw I am being sarcastic and aping the Peak pov). The problem for Imran is that any assurance that India won't strike terrorist bases in Pak should be linked to there not being terrorist bases in Pak that are used to attack India. I wonder how the Iran tensions will affect the Pak air closure. I wonder if US/EU will put pressure on Pak to open the airspace given Iran is closed.
 
aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:53 pm

VTORD wrote:
aarbee wrote:
How many seats in A343?

A343 30J21W224Y = 275
B772 40J24W216Y
B77W 42J24W315Y

Thanks.

So over all on the days of 772 there is a minor +J/-Y, but in overall good upgauge.

For whatever reasons among A340, AF product has been worse. Once BOM-CDG there were no PTVs (back in 2001)
CDG-AUH in 2013 was one crappy aircraft.

Off topic that CDG-AUH flight was such a boondoggle - EY flight operated by AF with AF crew and EY meals & amenities with checkin at EY counter and neither AF nor EY would give me miles as the ticket was KL. :cry:
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aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:00 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
6E Expansion strikes again..they're launching new routes like Taylor's singles.

IndiGo will be flying to Hanoi from 3rd Oct n then to Ho chi Minh..I guess they might use their 321 LRs..though Im surprised why they didnt order 321XLRs.I read many airlines have ordered those XLR versions...i mean if not wide body I reckon these XLRs could prove to be beneficial to 6E's expansion even till tokyo ..what u guys think ?

https://wap.business-standard.com/artic ... 336_1.html

Good for you 6E

Calm down.

321LR recently started service. A321XLR was just announced with anticipated completion in 2023.

-R
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aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:15 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
6E Expansion strikes again..they're launching new routes like Taylor's singles.

IndiGo will be flying to Hanoi from 3rd Oct n then to Ho chi Minh..I guess they might use their 321 LRs..though Im surprised why they didnt order 321XLRs.I read many airlines have ordered those XLR versions...i mean if not wide body I reckon these XLRs could prove to be beneficial to 6E's expansion even till tokyo ..what u guys think ?

https://wap.business-standard.com/artic ... 336_1.html

Good for you 6E


Wow CCU to Hanoi. I really wish them well. I hope 6E has one or two key connection points from CCU that has traffic demand to Hanoi. I fear there isn't


I think with the low service/budget model, the intent might to be create new markets at reasonable prices.

With 6E having following destinations from CCU :
Agartala, Ahmedabad, Allahabad (begins 28 June 2019), Bagdogra, Bangkok–Suvarnabhumi, Bengaluru, Bhubaneswar, Chandigarh, Chennai, Coimbatore , Dhaka, Delhi, Dibrugarh, Dimapur, Gaya (begins 8 August 2019),[52] Goa, Gorakhpur Guwahati, Hanoi (begins 3 October 2019),[53] Hong Kong (begins 20 August 2019),[54] Hyderabad, Imphal, Indore, Jabalpur (Begins 22 June 2019), Jaipur, Jorhat, Kochi, Lucknow, Mumbai, Nagpur, Patna, Port Blair, Pune, Raipur, Ranchi, Shillong (Begins 20 July 2019), Singapore, Srinagar, Surat, Thiruvananthapuram, Varanasi, Visakhapatnam

It would be cool if they can pull it off.

-R
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aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:17 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
chinmay17shetye wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
I guess they might use their 321 LRs.

Why? CCU-HAN is 972nm.


Cause of buddhist religious tourism and I think they will get a good traffic so they might use 321s but they can do a 320 too i guess their booking traffic will let them know what AC type to use also they could possibily launch direct flights from GAYA to Vietnam,Thailand,Myanmar,Cambodia,Laos, etc...cause their intention seems to grab the whole buddhist routes.


chinmay's point is that 321 should provide coverage. 321LR is not required.
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aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:20 pm

x1234 wrote:
With the new launch of the A321XLR (8700km full payload range), which Indian airline is first to Europe with a narrow-body!? Didn't Indigo's ISL (Istanbul) launch fail because of range limitations due to the Pakistani airspace closure!? You can fly BOM-LHR with the A321XLR (and DEL too if Pakistani airspace is opened).

It would be interesting if FSC from India or EU use it for services to AMDs, ATQs, JAIs, PNQs
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aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:28 pm

chinmay17shetye wrote:
I hope there is an Indigo order/conversion for the XLR. The number of new routes the A321XLR can get you is just amazing.


Its a few hundred miles than then 757. It was disappointing that none of the Indian carriers (expect an odd lease from AI) did not order 757.

I understand it's a too much of an aircraft for Indian domestic operations. Also barring IC short/medium haul international operations were not in vouge.

chinmay17shetye wrote:
unrave wrote:
Can you do the same chart with 3800nm?


3800nm range chart:

Image
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=&R=c:red,3800nm%40DEL,%0d%0ac:blue,3800nm%40BLR,%0d%0ac:yellow,3800nm%40BOM&MS=bm&MR=1800&MX=720x360&PM=*



unrave wrote:
I suspect it will be around 3800nm for a 222seat single class config.


3800nm after subtracting alternate and reserve fuel?

With that Far western EU will be out of range (LHR, MAD, BCN, LIS), CDG barely making it from BOM
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aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:45 pm

edealinfo wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
With UA cancelling its flights to BOM indefinitely,it'd be intrestin to see what route DL takes to BOM and wether they could keep with this tumultous airspace ban scenario goin on in our region.

As of today I see AI flights flying normally over Iranian Airspace Besides does anyone know if only US airlines have been affected or other airlines are also sort of avoiding the Iranian airspace or planing to do so ?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.timesofi ... 885086.cms


It all depends on Grump’s mood of the day.

Sure, just because you are not privy to details (not that I am), does not mean everything is knee jerk reaction.
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aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:47 pm

edealinfo wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
Sindhuputra wrote:
CCU - Vietnam is fantastic move by indigo.

No single Indian airport has adequate traffic to Vietnam. Indigo is going to hub traffic down to Vietnam from Kolkata . Most traffic today goes via Singapore or Bangkok and (1) Long total flight time
(2) pricing on these sectors will make a lot of people move to indigo . Premium Business traffic can stay in with SQ and TG, but expect a lot of rest to move to 6E. Additionally, They may offer a different time of departure ex other cities to the current tg/sq linked schedule .

I would imagine flights to China coming from Kolkata as well


Vietnam Move is excellent given their flights from CCU - GAY - VNS - GAY - CCU it is a perfect Buddhist triangle and with GAY only connected to Vietnam and other Buddhist nations SEASONALLY this daily flight will give a huge boost to tourists,business and relioous travellers alike also to Indians who till now had to travel to vietnam via KUL,BKK,SIN etc.

A very decisive execution of their strategy.


Why would Indian passengers at BLR, MAA, BOM, Pune etc take a flight to CCU to get to Vietnam?

Where do you think they should connect then? HKG, SIN, KLL, BKK, DXB, CMB ? Consider reading Sindhuputra's post for explaination.
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vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:50 pm

aarbee wrote:
x1234 wrote:
With the new launch of the A321XLR (8700km full payload range), which Indian airline is first to Europe with a narrow-body!? Didn't Indigo's ISL (Istanbul) launch fail because of range limitations due to the Pakistani airspace closure!? You can fly BOM-LHR with the A321XLR (and DEL too if Pakistani airspace is opened).

It would be interesting if FSC from India or EU use it for services to AMDs, ATQs, JAIs, PNQs


So effectively there is only one FSC in Vistara.

Unfortunately Tata’s have had their head too deep under the chowpatty sand and have missed the boat. Nothing demonstrates that the thought process in Bombay House has changed.

But be that it may, let the likes of IndiGo and Spice have a run at the AMD’s, the JAI’s and so forth.

And for the BOM hub club, thrown in STV for good measure.
 
aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:52 pm

aarbee wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:

Vietnam Move is excellent given their flights from CCU - GAY - VNS - GAY - CCU it is a perfect Buddhist triangle and with GAY only connected to Vietnam and other Buddhist nations SEASONALLY this daily flight will give a huge boost to tourists,business and relioous travellers alike also to Indians who till now had to travel to vietnam via KUL,BKK,SIN etc.

A very decisive execution of their strategy.


Why would Indian passengers at BLR, MAA, BOM, Pune etc take a flight to CCU to get to Vietnam?

Where do you think they should connect then? HKG, SIN, KLL, BKK, DXB, CMB ? Consider reading Sindhuputra's post for explaination.



CaliguyNYC wrote:

They might but I agree with you more. Most will just connect via SIN, KUL, BKK. No one has published India-Hanoi traffic numbers. I bet it is not that high. I would have always thought Buddhist tourism to India would also be high, but I have never seen proof of this. So I actually think CCU-Hanoi is iffy at best (but hey we don't know all the facts - let's see).

I think it would depend on class of service and price point. SG, 6E, Thai Smile, etc. have opened a quite a few leisure market.

JAI-CCU-Hanoi on 6E price point could be significantly cheaper then JAI-BOM-Hanoi (if there is one) or JAI-BOM/DEL-{FAR EAST/MIDDLE EAST}-Hanoi.
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aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:54 pm

edealinfo wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/indian-carriers-fly-in-to-occupy-jet-airways-foreign-slots/amp_articleshow/69883433.cms

“Airline representatives were asked to pick a chit and were given preference, according to the number they got as well as their fleet induction plans, sources said. This took place last week and letters to airlines were issued earlier this week, they added.“

I think this was a fair auction.

Slot allocation based on domestic ASKMs would only allow a monopoly situation to percolate to the international sector.

It will be interesting to see who was awarded London rights.

Finally you got it. as well as their fleet induction plans could be a significant factor. There's no point awarding for the slot to remain empty.

-R
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chinmay17shetye
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:57 pm

unrave wrote:
No, the published range of 4700nm is for dual class (~180 seats). The range is bound to come down with increase in no of seats


Yes but I wanted to ask if the 3800nm figure was with full FOB or with FOB minus the approximate alternate+reserves.

Because if the a/c can go 3800nm with full tanks, then there would be a further reduction in range because of this safety fuel. Hope someone can share XLR range data.

Hypothetically if the A321ceo were to fly BOM - LHR/CDG, the approximate safety fuel would be around the 1:15 figure plus additional contingency fuel for weather, diversions, etc. Note that this is very approximate and that irl flight planning can be very different. The image below shows a hypothetical BOM-LHR, BOM-CDG fuel plan. With alternates maybe a 500nm reduction in the 3800nm figure for the XLR? Please correct me if incorrect as this is very approximate.

Image https://imgur.com/a/ClTxzd9


aarbee wrote:
With that Far western EU will be out of range (LHR, MAD, BCN, LIS), CDG barely making it from BOM


I am not sure CDG would be possible if the 3800nm figure is with full FOB usage.
 
aarbee
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:16 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
SG's next intl destination is going to be Singapore


BREAKING:-
#SPICJET to begin Daily flights to #Singapore from #Delhi, #Mumbai & #Bangalore in the winter schedule 2019 says Debashis Saha, Associate VP Regulatory & Govt Affairs, Spicejet at the IATA Slot conference in Cape Town.


https://twitter.com/sandeeprrao1991/sta ... 1666699267


It looks like Spice is targeting the three main business markets. If that is their current strategy, I really do hope they rise to the occasion and become a true option for premium pax (having their version of a business class is a first step). So good for them. That said, I do not think Spice will become a FSC (and they should not become one). A hybrid model domestically seems to be the prudent path.

True their trajectory seems to be budget with some pseudo-premium options (Spice-Max). But going FSC is all together another ball game, which we have seen that forget hitting a home run, running all the bases in itself is a challenge world wide.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
[
I would like to see them interline with a slew of carriers (assuming they do not do that now), offer a lot connecting flights, offer clean reasonably new aircraft, and focus on a few key cities to develop solid connectivity. By all accounts it seems they are doing just that.

I assume you are referring to international interline. As far as inflight service goes, people have accepted it the fact that service in FSC will not be at the level 20-25 years back. The main hurdle for long haul international is the baggage issues. If the international interlining can take care of baggage limit (per the international sectors) there's value for the pax. And thats where those 3AM flights budget carriers might have a better chance of succeeding as opposed to FSC.

And its not just the checking baggage - the carryons, personal items, duty frees. This is one of the thing irritating about transiting thru BOM - come at the 9W counter, Sir you need to get your duty frees in the checked in baggage. It was always OK to exceed the check in weight, but wait in line to be told that , then you go on side sit on the floor to fix it, then again wait for your turn. One of the many endless irritating thing to do at 2AM after being tired of the international flight. (There was NO time to enjoy the art work at CSIA-BOM :P)

-R
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VTORD
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:03 pm

aarbee wrote:
It was always OK to exceed the check in weight, but wait in line to be told that , then you go on side sit on the floor to fix it, then again wait for your turn. One of the many endless irritating thing to do at 2AM after being tired of the international flight. (There was NO time to enjoy the art work at CSIA-BOM :P)

-R

:lol: :lol: :rotfl:
Been there done that....What would I not give to watch them put those silly cable ties on my checked luggage eh!?
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:10 pm

aarbee wrote:
VTORD wrote:
aarbee wrote:
How many seats in A343?

A343 30J21W224Y = 275
B772 40J24W216Y
B77W 42J24W315Y

Thanks.

So over all on the days of 772 there is a minor +J/-Y, but in overall good upgauge.

For whatever reasons among A340, AF product has been worse. Once BOM-CDG there were no PTVs (back in 2001)
CDG-AUH in 2013 was one crappy aircraft.

Off topic that CDG-AUH flight was such a boondoggle - EY flight operated by AF with AF crew and EY meals & amenities with checkin at EY counter and neither AF nor EY would give me miles as the ticket was KL. :cry:


The good news about AF’s A340 to BOM is they are the Joon refurbished ones. So coach and PE are fine with new PTVs. The only issue is J is angled flat without all aisle access but otherwise looks new. The AF 77W they are going to send to BOM and DEL look like their old product in all classes but the plane is big.

WRT your question on the 757 and India. I think the big issue was that the 757 couldn’t make it from BOM (AI’s hub back then) to the UK or even CDG. Hence AI went with the A300. Or so the story goes.. I may be wrong but that is what I remember people saying.
 
devmapper
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:59 pm

edealinfo wrote:

Why would Indian passengers at BLR, MAA, BOM, Pune etc take a flight to CCU to get to Vietnam?


Depends on whether 6E provides a connection to HAN via CCU at an attractive price point. A detour via CCU from BLR/MAA would be around 10-12% longer which translates into an extra 15-20 minute flight time, and any BOM-HAN flight would have to overfly CCU anyway. SGN is perhaps a different matter altogether.

Note, I have family in CCU, so I regularly fly into the airport. I have however, never connected to an airport via CCU, so I have no way to tell if transferring from a domestic to an international flight is a pleasant experience at CCU or not.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:15 pm

anshabhi wrote:

BREAKING:-
#SPICJET to begin Daily flights to #Singapore from #Delhi, #Mumbai & #Bangalore in the winter schedule 2019 says Debashis Saha, Associate VP Regulatory & Govt Affairs, Spicejet at the IATA Slot conference in Cape Town.


https://twitter.com/sandeeprrao1991/sta ... 1666699267


1. So, how many frequencies did Jet have from India to Singapore and from which cities? [All I know is that they probably had 2X daily from BLR to SIN]

2. From Jet's quota, we now know 3 daily have been allocated to Spicejet and 2 to Vistara.

3. SpiceJet has selected routes from DEL, BOM, and BLR. Where will Vistara fly from? Will it be 2X from DEL, or 1X DEL and 1X BOM, or will it be 1X DEL and 1X Pune? or 1X DEL and 1X MAA? What do you think?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:35 pm

SpiceJet's pipe dream (?) to have 20 freighter aircraft by 2021. Hey, with a friendly Moody government, you never know.

https://www.stattimes.com/indias-spicex ... 1-aviation
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:39 pm

More pipe dreams (?)

Yogi Adithyanath, CM of UP, is seeking 8 runways at Jewar/NOIDA airport . Hey, with a friendly Moody government, you never know.

Actually, I support his kind of thinking. Think big. If he actually pulls this off (8 runway airport) he will be #2 behind Moody.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 882035.cms
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:46 pm

25 Indian passengers trapped in Moscow airport to fly back home tonight

(Aeroflot offers cheap flights on the US to India sector but the airline has often been accused of racial discrimination, and issues of being stuck at their airport and being sent back to India, often at no fault of the Indian connecting passengers, are not a new issue.

https://www.mynation.com/india-news/25- ... ght-ptfq4k
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:46 pm

edealinfo wrote:
SpiceJet's pipe dream (?) to have 20 freighter aircraft by 2021. Hey, with a friendly Moody government, you never know.

https://www.stattimes.com/indias-spicex ... 1-aviation

Why pipe dream? US has 1000+ cargo planes and 100+ widebody cargo planes. 20 is a very small number.

Same for airport infrastructure
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:51 pm

Bee jay pea activists call for India's call sign to be changed from "VT" (originally stemmed from Viceroy Territory) as it constantly reminds them of "slavery". Activist gets audience with Civil Aviation Minister to push his plea.

Me thinks that if persons are reminded of slavery for something as innocuous as a airline call sign, maybe they would be better served by seeking psychological treatment for their slavery-subjugation thoughts.

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/chang ... 761271.htm
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:58 pm

With Philippines Airlines, and Garuda International Airlines (of Indonesia) dropping their services to London LHR, maybe Vistara can acquire slots from them or seek to obtain it through the normal allocation process for new entrants.

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... don-478183
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:29 pm

edealinfo wrote:
More pipe dreams (?)

Yogi Adithyanath, CM of UP, is seeking 8 runways at Jewar/NOIDA airport . Hey, with a friendly Moody government, you never know.

Actually, I support his kind of thinking. Think big. If he actually pulls this off (8 runway airport) he will be #2 behind Moody.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 882035.cms

8 runways will be the last phase of the airport, and that will likely be built over more than 30 years. First phase will be a modest 2 runway airport.

#2 is unquestionably Amit Shah
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
FligtReporter
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:10 pm

edealinfo wrote:
25 Indian passengers trapped in Moscow airport to fly back home tonight

(Aeroflot offers cheap flights on the US to India sector but the airline has often been accused of racial discrimination, and issues of being stuck at their airport and being sent back to India, often at no fault of the Indian connecting passengers, are not a new issue.

https://www.mynation.com/india-news/25- ... ght-ptfq4k

Harsh reality..Racism is well and alive...never been to Russia though but yes have seen it happening on a BA,UA and AF flight...I think its a norm now.
 
VTORD
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:03 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
25 Indian passengers trapped in Moscow airport to fly back home tonight

(Aeroflot offers cheap flights on the US to India sector but the airline has often been accused of racial discrimination, and issues of being stuck at their airport and being sent back to India, often at no fault of the Indian connecting passengers, are not a new issue.

https://www.mynation.com/india-news/25- ... ght-ptfq4k

Harsh reality..Racism is well and alive...never been to Russia though but yes have seen it happening on a BA,UA and AF flight...I think its a norm now.

For starters the article is half-baked and poorly written. Please exercise some judgement before jumping to racism allegations based on such badly written articles.

got trapped at the Moscow Airport in Russia after they reported late for a flight
As per reports, the passengers were not allowed to enter the Aeroflot flight, though they had completed the check-in procedures. The luggage of the passengers were taken into the flight. The passengers did not get food and water since morning

They were allowed to complete check-in (which most likely means not a connecting flight) but not allowed to board? while their luggage made it? So were they dilly dallying after check in / security and did not reach gate on time for boarding? And why wasn't their luggage removed if they didn't board the flight? The luggage was "taken into the flight" could very well mean it was loaded and then taken off (but not mentioned in the article). So looks like we don't know the full story.

IF they were not delayed due to the airline's mistake why should the airline be responsible for their food/water while they wait for the next available flight. I am not sure what SU's DEL schedule is from SVO but I am sure EK/EY/QR could have been options for rebooking instead of waiting. Again if they were not delayed because of the airline's mistake, they would have to pay for the new tickets or wait for the next SU flight.

That has been my biggest complaint of Sushma Swaraj's "Twitter Diplomacy". It has set a precedent for government intervention for resolving problems arising from people's stupidity.

AFAIC, this is not a racist incident. Yet.
 
x1234
Posts: 482
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:52 pm

Again not a racist incident as they were LATE. Also Aeroflot is HUGE in the East Asian market especially from China (and probably India/DEL too) and they're one of the cheapest ways to fly from China to Europe (extensive Europe/Central Asia network, they literally serve EVERY airport). Also due to the traffic from Asia to Europe there recently have been long lines at the transit desk (security check + passport control check) of SVO airport, see: https://www.aeroflot.ru/us-en/informati ... rt/transit
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:16 pm

x1234 wrote:
Again not a racist incident as they were LATE.

VTORD wrote:

AFAIC, this is not a racist incident. Yet.


You'll rushed in judgement to their [airline/airport/authorities] defense without learning about the past history and experiences. There is more it than meets the eye --- the claim that 25 persons (largely students) were late for their flights was a telling sign. Do you think Moscow airport is duty-free paradise like Dubai where people enjoy hanging out in the airport ?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 74406.html

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/loca ... -506642315
 
avier
Posts: 866
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:54 pm

edealinfo wrote:
You'll rushed in judgement to their [airline/airport/authorities] defense without learning about the past history and experiences. ...
...


Have no pity for such pax. It's almost become the norm that Indian pax report late for Check-in or at gate for boarding, and somehow end up becoming the "victims". And then rant on Twitter and ask Modi or Sushma or any other minister to intervene. Like yeah, these ministers will instead of focusing on more pressing issues regarding the country, will stop to intervene to save some morons because they happened to be late for a flight.
Your personal idiotic issues, deal it yourself. And don't drag ministers of State,etc.
Indian pax should read the Conditions of Carriage of airlines and other such rules like a bible before any journey they want to undertake by air.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:11 pm

unrave wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
More pipe dreams (?)

Yogi Adithyanath, CM of UP, is seeking 8 runways at Jewar/NOIDA airport . Hey, with a friendly Moody government, you never know.

Actually, I support his kind of thinking. Think big. If he actually pulls this off (8 runway airport) he will be #2 behind Moody.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 882035.cms

8 runways will be the last phase of the airport, and that will likely be built over more than 30 years. First phase will be a modest 2 runway airport.

India is expected by 2030 to be the most populous nation. To have a decent standard if living requires transportation. The only way to meet such demand is to think big.

8-runways won't be enough.

In the EU, a 2-runway airport would be anything but modest.
:wave:

Indian aviation has potential. The better the corruption index, the higher the potential per capital GNP. Moving up to 41 is better than it was, but to reach Western standards requires above 70. But at a minimum, India should be able to, with time, exceed China's per capita production (Xi's consolidation of power has reduced to 39). Yes, I assume continued progress.

https://www.transparency.org/cpi2018

The more GNP, the more air travel. Ok, the more GNP growth, the more air travel.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
VTORD
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:17 pm

edealinfo wrote:

You'll rushed in judgement to their [airline/airport/authorities] defense without learning about the past history and experiences.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 74406.html

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/loca ... -506642315


What makes you think I am not aware of these incidents? The American couple were clearly racially profiled. You would have to be racist yourself to not see the obvious in that incident. That is not up for debate. All I was pointing out was that there is not enough information to decide that this incident is a racially charged incident. If you had not been in such a ruddy rush to post your opinions, you would have read my post more carefully. Particularly the last sentence. But understanding nuanced English and the ability to spell Modi's name (or Katy Perry's for that matter) are clearly not two of your known strengths.

edealinfo wrote:
Do you think Moscow airport is duty-free paradise like Dubai where people enjoy hanging out in the airport


I have never been to Moscow so I wouldn't know. Clearly you seem to know better than me so why don't you enlighten me? I have transited and travelled through enough time in airports in the EU and ME3 to not need your advice about "hanging out" at airports. So I would appreciate if you kept the sanctimony to yourself.

edealinfo wrote:
the claim that 25 persons (largely students) were late for their flights was a telling sign. ?


Pray do tell what it is a telling sign of? I am all for it.
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:17 pm

lightsaber wrote:
India is expected by 2030 to be the most populous nation. To have a decent standard if living requires transportation. The only way to meet such demand is to think big.

8-runways won't be enough.

True. It's sad and really stupid that the new Mumbai airport (NMIA) will be having just 2 parallel runways. And this is the most populated city of the country with the largest population (or approaching there).
China is designing all new major airports at the bigger cities with 200mn capacity and 4-8 runways.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:42 pm

avier wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
India is expected by 2030 to be the most populous nation. To have a decent standard if living requires transportation. The only way to meet such demand is to think big.

8-runways won't be enough.

True. It's sad and really stupid that the new Mumbai airport (NMIA) will be having just 2 parallel runways. And this is the most populated city of the country with the largest population (or approaching there).
China is designing all new major airports at the bigger cities with 200mn capacity and 4-8 runways.


I know I couldn’t believe it either. Why only two runways. Reason - all the politicians bought the land around the airport and then didn’t want to sell.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 186
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:47 pm

VTORD wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

You'll rushed in judgement to their [airline/airport/authorities] defense without learning about the past history and experiences.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 74406.html

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/loca ... -506642315


What makes you think I am not aware of these incidents? The American couple were clearly racially profiled. You would have to be racist yourself to not see the obvious in that incident. That is not up for debate. All I was pointing out was that there is not enough information to decide that this incident is a racially charged incident. If you had not been in such a ruddy rush to post your opinions, you would have read my post more carefully. Particularly the last sentence. But understanding nuanced English and the ability to spell Modi's name (or Katy Perry's for that matter) are clearly not two of your known strengths.

edealinfo wrote:
Do you think Moscow airport is duty-free paradise like Dubai where people enjoy hanging out in the airport


I have never been to Moscow so I wouldn't know. Clearly you seem to know better than me so why don't you enlighten me? I have transited and travelled through enough time in airports in the EU and ME3 to not need your advice about "hanging out" at airports. So I would appreciate if you kept the sanctimony to yourself.

edealinfo wrote:
the claim that 25 persons (largely students) were late for their flights was a telling sign. ?


Pray do tell what it is a telling sign of? I am all for it.


As someone who has seen it,Faced it..I second every word you mentioned !! :bigthumbsup:
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:03 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I know I couldn’t believe it either. Why only two runways. Reason - all the politicians bought the land around the airport and then didn’t want to sell.

Have you looked at the topography of that area?
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
avier
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:09 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I know I couldn’t believe it either. Why only two runways. Reason - all the politicians bought the land around the airport and then didn’t want to sell.

Or rather they selected only a poor site which could accommodate only two runways and leave no room for further expansion. A bunch of nuts I say who thought of that location.
 
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:38 pm

[quote=“VTORD”]

edealinfo wrote:
the claim that 25 persons (largely students) were late for their flights was a telling sign. ?


Pray do tell what it is a telling sign of? I am all for it.[/quote]

The sign that it is highly implausible that 25 persons (a good number of which were students] are unable to keep track of time so as to miss a connecting flight. You do know that clocks were invented hundreds of years ago?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:40 pm

avier wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
I know I couldn’t believe it either. Why only two runways. Reason - all the politicians bought the land around the airport and then didn’t want to sell.

Or rather they selected only a poor site which could accommodate only two runways and leave no room for further expansion. A bunch of nuts I say who thought of that location.

The site was selected 30 years ago
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:24 pm

From the ET Now e-mail newsletter

Jet was making between INR3,000 crore and INR5,000 crore every year from these alliances.
IndiGo, SpiceJet, and Vistara have all had a flurry of meetings with major and minor airlines across the world.
The Star Alliance ecosystem accounts for more than 60% of the India traffic. Air India and Vistara are expected to be the biggest beneficiaries of the Jet demise.
 
lutfi
Posts: 881
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:53 am

Vistara advertising is also quite racist in advertising- all their featured cabin crew and pilots are of ‘wheaten complexion’. Do they not hire southern indians? SQ on the other hand is happy to use dark skinned indians in their adverts.
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:55 am

lutfi wrote:
Vistara advertising is also quite racist in advertising- all their featured cabin crew and pilots are of ‘wheaten complexion’. Do they not hire southern indians? SQ on the other hand is happy to use dark skinned indians in their adverts.


Huh ??? I hope you were being sarcastic .
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
srkSJC
Posts: 27
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:32 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
avier wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
India is expected by 2030 to be the most populous nation. To have a decent standard if living requires transportation. The only way to meet such demand is to think big.

8-runways won't be enough.

True. It's sad and really stupid that the new Mumbai airport (NMIA) will be having just 2 parallel runways. And this is the most populated city of the country with the largest population (or approaching there).
China is designing all new major airports at the bigger cities with 200mn capacity and 4-8 runways.


I know I couldn’t believe it either. Why only two runways. Reason - all the politicians bought the land around the airport and then didn’t want to sell.


There are many reasons why extra land was not secured in a timely fashion. I will try to cover some points from my personal interactions with the local lawyers and CIDCO/Collector of Raigad office/Collector of Thane ( this portion of land interchanged its location between these two authorities)
1. The time from 1980- 1995 was in midst of want to financial resources to acquire the land( throw in the reason of delay due to complicated Land Acquisition Act in it)
2. Beyond that the case for the new airport never arose very seriously because traffic at Sahar and Vile Parle never rose to that level which would merit a second airport viability.
3. In the meantime due to lack of proper legal implementation of pending acquisition of land for NMIA from 1980's to mid 2000'0 led to permission to local builders to start construction of housing.
4. After the moves and noises were made to acquire the land, the strong builder lobby wanted to either delay it or create enough obstacle in the path to acquire the land so that they may get the extra bit land. (remember once the land acquisition notification comes or is made public the AAI restrictions on the building height owing to the runway funnel will come into picture(yes, in Mumbai this has been controversial as many buildings got their heights increased due to collusion from AAI but that is another matter)) so that was another reason for shortage of land. Something similar is happening in San Jose where the city council is pushing for increase of heights of buildings in the SJ downtown area for increase of taxes and permit fees ( which means that long haul aircrafts cannot use the airport in the future){so nothing new to India as such}.
5. Locals were incited to not agree to any compensation which the government consented to. Every now and then the PAP ( project affected population) agreed on a sum with government local politicians will instigate the population in not accepting the compensation (many reasons why they did this - some amount of corruption cannot be ruled out plus the builders who get to construct the buildings in the proximity will pay them future bribes). All of this took a long period of time to get resolved and by then all they could gather was space for two runways.
6.And As cited by Unrave the unique topography of NMIA is also a hindrance.

PS - i am an indian lawyer(still licensed to practice there) and moved to Bay Area in 2017. Prior to that i was a corporate lawyer in Navi Mumbai for 7 years.
 
avier
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:35 am

lutfi wrote:
Vistara advertising is also quite racist in advertising- all their featured cabin crew and pilots are of ‘wheaten complexion’. Do they not hire southern indians? SQ on the other hand is happy to use dark skinned indians in their adverts.

Racist is when one discriminates against a particular race/ethnic group, etc. But when one is discriminating amongst their own race or group of people (in this case their own countrymen) on basis of colour, it can't be called racist. It would be colorism or shadeism. The airline might prefer a lighter skinned North Indian over a darker skinned north indian. So there's nothing against their race/ethnic group/region etc.

From what I've heard, Spicejet is the worst in this when it comes to recruitment and selection of cabin crew.
IndiGo is much less discriminating on this, and hires people based more so on their skills/talent.

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