sibibom
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:04 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:59 am

avier wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
IXE has been impacted a lot by CNN. The same catchment area now has 2 airports to be served, with CNN being larger and more modern too. The area is full of gulf NRIs, which is why IXE was a very attractive airport before CNN came into existence.

Kannur(CNN) is closer to Calicut(CCJ) than Mangalore. So Calicut and CNN would be sharing more of the common catchment area, also they both being in the same state of Kerala.
CNN to Calicut is ~90Km, CNN to Mangalore is ~150Km. And Calicut has plenty of Gulf flights.


Karasagod is the difference, the northernmost district in Kerala. Its closer to Mangalore, but CNN makes a compelling case despite being a lil longer (CCJ is just too out of the way)
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1093
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:57 am

srkSJC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
How Calcutta won a Dubai flight but lost a London one
The new route sounds suspiciously like a consolation prize


Love the headline and the byline


https://www.telegraphindia.com/states/w ... id/1693185


I dont want to wade into any political debate here but press reportage from Calcutta should be read with a pinch (or grain of salt) specially if it is The Statesman or The Telegraph. Apart from that local politicians there have a distinctive anti-delhi mindset (this has percolated to every level of populace in a certain unhealthy way). So making these stories with a touch of journalistic liberties is not entirely out of place. If this same analogy is accepted ( about DXB-CCU flights) then Hyderabad also elected BJP MP's so a HYD-LGW or HYD-London Stansted, HYD-Najaf(HYD has a sizeable Shia population btw{also the reason why Banjara Hills has a Iranian Consulate there}, or HYD-Riyadh, HYD-Dammam must be launched to achieve political purposes. I think AI wanted to use DXB slots as quickly as possible so this flight was announced. My suspicion is that they may connect with DHAKA and make this DAC-CCU-DXB because that is where the actual traffic is. 9W used to do this DAC-BOM-DXB if i am not mistaken.

Here is why i made this statement - https://www.thehindu.com/elections/lok- ... 227118.ece


On the political point i am happy to discuss with you in private {outside of this forum} since mods here have repeatedly stressed that detailed political statements to be avoided and i dont want to banned from here.


I actually think AI is being smart. Jet and the other airlines all wanted to serve the main DXB-India city pairs and then add some unique routes. That didn’t leave too many seats. AI knows it compete on most routes so starting Indore with no competition or CCU which might be seeing high EK fared for o&d pax. I don’t have data but on the surface I can see a potential strategy
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:15 pm

unrave wrote:

That is a Bloomberg article. Mint has merely reproduced it under syndication


But not the title of the story. They invented their own and that was my point. They jazzed it up by faulty extrapolation of what the CEO of Wizz said.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:20 pm

binayak wrote:

9W DEL LHR was 1 daily flight not 2 and also you missed out 1 daily BOM CDG on 9W .
In the capacity gained column, AI's 3 weekly LHR BLR should not come because that was present before 9W shutdown.


Thanks, I updated the list accordingly. Ball parking the list, could someone indicate what was the % of lost capacity restored? My rough estimate is not more than 40 to 60% of the capacity was restored. Doesn't this mean that there is still a large hole to be filled or was there surplus capacity on this sector to begin with?

Capacity LOST (Jet):
BOM - to LHR (3 daily flights)
DEL to LHR (1 daily flight)
BOM - AMS (1 daily flight)
BOM - CDG (1 daily flight)
DEL - AMS (1 daily flight)
BLR - AMS (5X weekly)
MAA - CDG (5X weekly)

CAPACITY GAINED - NEW Frequency/Flights
LHR - BOM (Virgin 1 daily)
LHR - BOM (British Airways - additional 3X weekly)
AMS - BLR (KLM 3X weekly)
AMS - BOM (KLM additional 3X weekly?)


CAPACITY GAINED - ADDITIONAL SEATS
CDG - BOM (Air France, how many additional seats?)
CDG - DEL (Air France, how many additional seats?)
AMS - BOM (KLM, how many additional seats[excluding the 3X new frequencies]?)
AMS - DEL (KLM, how many additional seats?)
LHR - BLR (British Airways, how many additional seats?)
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:17 pm

edealinfo wrote:
unrave wrote:

That is a Bloomberg article. Mint has merely reproduced it under syndication


But not the title of the story. They invented their own and that was my point. They jazzed it up by faulty extrapolation of what the CEO of Wizz said.


Heck, the story in the link below even specifically states Air Baltic may fly to New Delhi (but it was not picked up in the Indian press) while the Wizz Air CEO merely commented that the range of the A321XLR placed Delhi in reach of Europe but in the Wizz Air case it was picked up by the press. Go figure!

https://simpleflying.com/air-baltic-new-destinations/
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:28 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Thanks, I updated the list accordingly. Ball parking the list, could someone indicate what was the % of lost capacity restored? My rough estimate is not more than 40 to 60% of the capacity was restored. Doesn't this mean that there is still a large hole to be filled or was there surplus capacity on this sector to begin with?

Something related to seat shortage/fare spike post Jet shutdown:
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/tr ... 997304.cms
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:22 pm

edealinfo wrote:
binayak wrote:

9W DEL LHR was 1 daily flight not 2 and also you missed out 1 daily BOM CDG on 9W .
In the capacity gained column, AI's 3 weekly LHR BLR should not come because that was present before 9W shutdown.


Thanks, I updated the list accordingly. Ball parking the list, could someone indicate what was the % of lost capacity restored? My rough estimate is not more than 40 to 60% of the capacity was restored. Doesn't this mean that there is still a large hole to be filled or was there surplus capacity on this sector to begin with?

Capacity LOST (Jet):
BOM - to LHR (3 daily flights)
DEL to LHR (1 daily flight)
BOM - AMS (1 daily flight)
BOM - CDG (1 daily flight)
DEL - AMS (1 daily flight)
BLR - AMS (5X weekly)
MAA - CDG (5X weekly)

CAPACITY GAINED - NEW Frequency/Flights
LHR - BOM (Virgin 1 daily)
LHR - BOM (British Airways - additional 3X weekly)
AMS - BLR (KLM 3X weekly)
AMS - BOM (KLM additional 3X weekly?)


CAPACITY GAINED - ADDITIONAL SEATS
CDG - BOM (Air France, how many additional seats?)
CDG - DEL (Air France, how many additional seats?)
AMS - BOM (KLM, how many additional seats[excluding the 3X new frequencies]?)
AMS - DEL (KLM, how many additional seats?)
LHR - BLR (British Airways, how many additional seats?)


It is difficult to calculate exactly how much capacity has been restored. Note that a good number of pax on 9W EU flights flew onwards to US and they might now take the upcoming DL flight. So DL JFK BOM can be counted as restored capacity.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:01 pm

binayak wrote:

It is difficult to calculate exactly how much capacity has been restored. Note that a good number of pax on 9W EU flights flew onwards to US and they might now take the upcoming DL flight. So DL JFK BOM can be counted as restored capacity.


Fair Point. So I added back the JFK - BOM flight by Delta and the ANA flight from Japan - MAA (which is also intended to funnel passengers to the US, and the JAL flight from next year from BLR to Japan -US )


Capacity LOST (Jet):
BOM - to LHR (3 daily flights)
DEL to LHR (1 daily flight)
BOM - AMS (1 daily flight)
BOM - CDG (1 daily flight)
DEL - AMS (1 daily flight)
BLR - AMS (5X weekly)
MAA - CDG (5X weekly)

CAPACITY GAINED - NEW Frequency/Flights

LHR - BOM (Virgin 1 daily)
LHR - BOM (British Airways - additional 3X weekly)
AMS - BLR (KLM 3X weekly)
AMS - BOM (KLM additional 3X weekly?)
JFK - BOM (Delta 1X daily)
MAA- Japan - USA (ANA 1X daily)
BLR- Japan - USA (JAL 1X daily, next year)

CAPACITY GAINED - ADDITIONAL SEATS
CDG - BOM (Air France, how many additional seats?)
CDG - DEL (Air France, how many additional seats?)
AMS - BOM (KLM, how many additional seats[excluding the 3X new frequencies]?)
AMS - DEL (KLM, how many additional seats?)
LHR - BLR (British Airways, how many additional seats?)
Last edited by edealinfo on Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 424
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:17 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Fair Point. So I added back the JFK - BOM flight by Delta and the ANA flight from Japan - MAA (which is also intended to funnel passengers to the US)
You are missing JL NRT-BLR starting next summer.

There has been a lot of capacity loss due to the Iran/Pakistan airspace issues too. It might be temporary, but who knows these days. Those issues right now will also prevent that DL JFK-BOM flight from starting.

Connecting via East Asia between India and the US is looking real appealing right now.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:23 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Fair Point. So I added back the JFK - BOM flight by Delta and the ANA flight from Japan - MAA (which is also intended to funnel passengers to the US)
You are missing JL NRT-BLR starting next summer.

There has been a lot of capacity loss due to the Iran/Pakistan airspace issues too. It might be temporary, but who knows these days. Those issues right now will also prevent that DL JFK-BOM flight from starting.

Connecting via East Asia between India and the US is looking real appealing right now.


I added the BLR - Japan -USA flight in my previous post. Thanks.

I still think the new flights, and additional seats on existing flights, is insufficient to replace the lost capacity and the new needed capacity (growth from year to year).
 
killswitch13
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:50 pm

AI schedule for BOM-NBO-BOM starting 27/09/19

Operating a/c: B788

AI961 0400-0730 (Tu/We/Fr/Su)
AI962 0900-1730(Tu/We/Fr/Su)
 
edealinfo
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:07 pm

killswitch13 wrote:
AI schedule for BOM-NBO-BOM starting 27/09/19

Operating a/c: B788

AI961 0400-0730 (Tu/We/Fr/Su)
AI962 0900-1730(Tu/We/Fr/Su)


I really don't understand Air India --- why only 4 days a week. The flights to Toronto are only 3 days a week. Couldn't they have just picked one of the two and made it 7 days a week?
 
VTORD
Posts: 544
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:53 am

edealinfo wrote:
killswitch13 wrote:
AI schedule for BOM-NBO-BOM starting 27/09/19

Operating a/c: B788

AI961 0400-0730 (Tu/We/Fr/Su)
AI962 0900-1730(Tu/We/Fr/Su)


I really don't understand Air India --- why only 4 days a week. The flights to Toronto are only 3 days a week. Couldn't they have just picked one of the two and made it 7 days a week?

Markets are unrelated. One is from DEL/ATQ while the other is from BOM and it is not even the same aircraft type so one has no bearing on the other. Also there could be a few factors at play here:
1. For YYZ, there might be concerns around block time, tech stop and related costs etc., in light of the Pak airspace problem so has a better scope of filling the a/c on a 4xWeekly basis than flying less than profitable LFs daily

2. This seems to have become standard modus operandi for AI: Launching international at 3/4 x weekly and adding based on performance. DEL-SFO also was initially launched at 3 x wkly as was BOM-JFK. Both routes have yielded very different progressions. Better than flushing more tax payer money down the drain....
 
FligtReporter
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:29 am

AI at the prime of its expansion experimentation..Wonder when will they launch flights to St.Helena and St.Marteen :lol:
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 198
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:35 am

Just as we thought AI couldnt be messier Here come the Pilots..Pay Due per pilot is about 1 Cr and pilots want it to be paid before the divestment process or else they gon b movin to the NCLT..and if that happens they say it could derail the Divestment dream of the GOI.

https://m.timesofindia.com/business/ind ... 000459.cms

Now lets wait for some other Cabin crew association or some other sort of association to come outta their holes and demand for their share of money.
 
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unrave
Posts: 2640
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:53 am

I can't wait for disinvest to happen and see these entitled sarkari workers get a taste of employers that demand actual productivity
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019t

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:15 am

unrave wrote:
I can't wait for disinvest to happen and see these entitled sarkari workers get a taste of employers that demand actual productivity


I think it would be smart to sell Air India in pieces. Start with Air India Express and sell 100 percent of it with zero onerous conditions. AI express is profitable, has few permanent staff and good slots so it should sell. If they try to sell the parent, there is a super high chance they will fail. They need to build on success not failure. Why doesn’t the Government get this?
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019t

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:29 am

edealinfo wrote:

I think it would be smart to sell Air India in pieces. Start with Air India Express and sell 100 percent of it with zero onerous conditions. AI express is profitable, has few permanent staff and good slots so it should sell. If they try to sell the parent, there is a super high chance they will fail. They need to build on success not failure. Why doesn’t the Government get this?

Completely agree. Alliance Air, Air India Express and the two ground handling units should be divested first.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:15 am

Did you guys see how Bloomberg is blaming Indian engineers for MAX crashes !! ??

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -engineers

The good thing: Many people now think MAX is Assembled in USA, Designed in India (Similar to infamous Made in China, Designed in Cupertino)
Proud to be an Indian :rotfl:
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:43 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Did you guys see how Bloomberg is blaming Indian engineers for MAX crashes !! ??

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -engineers

The good thing: Many people now think MAX is Assembled in USA, Designed in India (Similar to infamous Made in China, Designed in Cupertino)
Proud to be an Indian :rotfl:


Not just Bloomberg....I think the story originated in the Wall Street Journal
 
unnayan
Posts: 112
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:45 pm

AIX overshoot runway at Mangalore..

https://m.republicworld.com/india-news/ ... -off-grass

Hope everyone is fine...
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:15 pm

unnayan wrote:
AIX overshoot runway at Mangalore..

https://m.republicworld.com/india-news/ ... -off-grass

Hope everyone is fine...

How many “incidents” will it take for the Government to extend the runway? The previous overshooting the runway resulted in the loss of over 100 lives. India never learns. Praful Patel promised the runway would be extended but never implemented it. Too bad politicians can’t go to jail for false public promises involving SAFETY.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:19 pm

edealinfo wrote:
How many “incidents” will it take for the Government to extend the runway? The previous overshooting the runway resulted in the loss of over 100 lives. India never learns. Praful Patel promised the runway would be extended but never implemented it. Too bad politicians can’t go to jail for false public promises involving SAFETY.

Stiff resistance to land acquisition
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:46 pm

Just for clarity, on reading further, this is not an incident of overshooting the main runway, but rather straying off the taxiway. Nevertheless, I hope this draws attention on the need to expand Mangalore's main runway.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:11 pm

Indigo to start 6 new routes and none touch Mumbai and New Delhi.

https://www.indiatoday.in/lifestyle/tra ... 2019-06-28
 
COEWR787
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:14 pm

Any further news on the Pakistan airspace transit situation?
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:22 pm

And now a Spicejet plane has overshot the runway at Surat airport.
https://mobile.twitter.com/aaistvairpor ... 9565078529

Seems like AIX & SG are trying to maintain their record of who has the most runway/taxiway overshoots amongst Indian carriers. :lol:
Last edited by avier on Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:22 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Indigo to start 6 new routes and none touch Mumbai and New Delhi.

https://www.indiatoday.in/lifestyle/tra ... 2019-06-28

Those are ATR routes and have been posted here before.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:28 pm

Turkey has been pushing for an increase in civil aviation bilateral rights and managed to slip in the discussion when Moody met the Turkish President at the G20 summit.

https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... e/1622998/

However, given Turkish ideological closeness to Pak on Kash, there is zero chance that the Indian side would budge. complicating the issue is the Turkish demand sor numerous additional daily frequencies (in which world are they living??).

Given the geo-political issue, I think the only chance that Turkey has on increasing rights is to ask for just 1 additional daily flight and specifically to Amritsar. Why Amritsar? Because there are a gazillions of Punjabis/Siks in far corners of the world (and Turkish has a really large network across the world) looking for cheap flights to Amritsar. But more so because the Indian Civil Aviation Minister represents Amritsar and if he has to concede, he would do where it helps him politically. Of course, Turkish has to be creative and get the Amritsar trade association and the Golden Temp leaders to lean on the minister and build the pressure which will make it easier for him to support such a decision.

In allowing a new flight to Amritsar, India should also change the bilateral from the current 2X daily to one based on seat counts. This will make 6 Indigo flights (narrow bodied) equivalent to 3 Turkish flights (wide bodied). This way, the minister could also pitch the new arrangement as an "improvement" over the existing bilateral which favored Turkish in the sense that they flew in wide body aircraft and India only flies a narrow body which is disadvantageous when the bilateral is based on frequency not seat counts.

DO YOU AGREE WITH MY POSITION?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:53 pm

COEWR787 wrote:
Any further news on the Pakistan airspace transit situation?


Why would Pak change its position when its current status on the issue screws Air India (and therefore India) by 6 crores daily?
 
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qf789
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:59 pm

Please continue discussion in Indian Aviation Thread July 2019

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1426005
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