dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:38 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
Ok I never comment and usually just go through posts However In these recent turbulent times in Indian aviation where we have seen a 25 year old Airline like 9W shutting down and falling to its demise and AI goin through its new norm of losses Im forced to wonder if this is what the new norm of Indian aviation is and is this how its gona be like forver.

Now LCCs like Spice and 6E are making their benefits out of both 6E obviously the king of Indian aviation in terms of fleet and pax count So My worries aint in that department its more in the FSC department.

Now AI,Being the oldest asian airline and ofcorse the flag carier of our country doesn't look good as its always making losses.However I did read somewhere a few days ago its Sub AIX had a good load on its Gulf flights...so wheres the problem..I assume its management or sarkari babus who dunno how to run an airline.

I mean I like their domestic product which is very good compared to Vistara which was my favourite untill I realized I was being cheated in payin extra for their so called Premium Economy whereas AI offered me the same in their Economy.

Now I see a lot of people talkin about how the Gov should shut AI down and stuff though there are reports of it being privatised but I dunno what the future holds,However For me,I think AI has served the Indian people in many great ways like carrying out the worlds largest Human Evacuation by a commercial airline,Evactuation of Indians and foreigners in Yemen and also Kathmandu Earthquake 2015 etc.

I mean it has been making losses i get it,Its sort of a white elephant however if its shut down then what will happen to its employees,We saw what a mess 9Ws collapse created and their staff on social media is still hopefull though i know the airline is gone,Can the govt afford to lose AI ?

So my question to all the respected aviation pundits is that If/when AI shuts down will Vistara or IndiGo or Spice offer the same relief flights to rescue Indians stranded abroad and play the default Flag carier ?

Also Do you think AI will continue to fly forver like it is flying being in gov's hand and gov will keep pumpin in the money like the case is with Italian gov and Alitalia ?

Cause I honestly Feel AI is only flying cause India has a huge middle class population and huge economy and its the common man thats flying AI had it been Air Zimbabwe or Air Zambia it would have long gone.

do share your thoughts !


AIX has "96"(not a typo) permanent employees, AI has 11,000 permanent, AIX has 1000-1200 total, AI has 17,000 total, including contractors. Vistara is the only other airline in India can match AIX in employee efficiency. 6E actually the worst performer in employee count. PS: Numbers are approximate, shills need not nitpick.

Bundling bad units with good units to obscure the reality is a long-standing tradition by the Indian government. Before the merger, only the old AI would have been debt-ridden, that also because of WB purchases. Now the entire group is debt-ridden,

If GoI pays enough SG and 6E can evacuate stranded Indians, otherwise they can swim, no big deal. Any registered carrier can do the job.
Modi can take Emirates charters, no big deal.

AI will be shut down to show it as divestment. With all the debt(which will remain on GoI books) even after AI shutdown, can it be counted as divestment, only economists can tell.
 
sabby
Posts: 331
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:06 pm

avier wrote:
sabby wrote:
Are you sure SQ use the long haul config A350 at BOM instead of the regional config ? That'd be quite a loss of seats.


SQ has two configs for their A350's: a Regional one and another more premium heavy one, the latter used on BOM route.
I guess you're confusing with the A350ULR which is a completely different variant/config in their fleet.

No, I was talking about the 3 class long haul config (253 seats) and the 2 class regional config (303 seats). Thanks for confirming that they use the 3 class long haul config for BOM. The long haul config has only 2 more J so I'm guessing that anshabhi is right that SQ is probably maximising utilisation.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:24 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

AIX has "96"(not a typo) permanent employees, AI has 11,000 permanent, AIX has 1000-1200 total, AI has 17,000 total, including contractors. Vistara is the only other airline in India can match AIX in employee efficiency. 6E actually the worst performer in employee count. PS: Numbers are approximate, shills need not nitpick.

Bundling bad units with good units to obscure the reality is a long-standing tradition by the Indian government. Before the merger, only the old AI would have been debt-ridden, that also because of WB purchases. Now the entire group is debt-ridden,

If GoI pays enough SG and 6E can evacuate stranded Indians, otherwise they can swim, no big deal. Any registered carrier can do the job.
Modi can take Emirates charters, no big deal.

AI will be shut down to show it as divestment. With all the debt(which will remain on GoI books) even after AI shutdown, can it be counted as divestment, only economists can tell.


Too pressed for time these days to do a line by line FACTCHECK.
Readers of this thread may regard the above comment as mostly made up alternate facts and irrelevant metrics.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:25 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
Ok I never comment and usually just go through posts However In these recent turbulent times in Indian aviation where we have seen a 25 year old Airline like 9W shutting down and falling to its demise and AI goin through its new norm of losses Im forced to wonder if this is what the new norm of Indian aviation is and is this how its gona be like forver.

Now LCCs like Spice and 6E are making their benefits out of both 6E obviously the king of Indian aviation in terms of fleet and pax count So My worries aint in that department its more in the FSC department.

Now AI,Being the oldest asian airline and ofcorse the flag carier of our country doesn't look good as its always making losses.However I did read somewhere a few days ago its Sub AIX had a good load on its Gulf flights...so wheres the problem..I assume its management or sarkari babus who dunno how to run an airline.

I mean I like their domestic product which is very good compared to Vistara which was my favourite untill I realized I was being cheated in payin extra for their so called Premium Economy whereas AI offered me the same in their Economy.

Now I see a lot of people talkin about how the Gov should shut AI down and stuff though there are reports of it being privatised but I dunno what the future holds,However For me,I think AI has served the Indian people in many great ways like carrying out the worlds largest Human Evacuation by a commercial airline,Evactuation of Indians and foreigners in Yemen and also Kathmandu Earthquake 2015 etc.

I mean it has been making losses i get it,Its sort of a white elephant however if its shut down then what will happen to its employees,We saw what a mess 9Ws collapse created and their staff on social media is still hopefull though i know the airline is gone,Can the govt afford to lose AI ?

So my question to all the respected aviation pundits is that If/when AI shuts down will Vistara or IndiGo or Spice offer the same relief flights to rescue Indians stranded abroad and play the default Flag carier ?

Also Do you think AI will continue to fly forver like it is flying being in gov's hand and gov will keep pumpin in the money like the case is with Italian gov and Alitalia ?

Cause I honestly Feel AI is only flying cause India has a huge middle class population and huge economy and its the common man thats flying AI had it been Air Zimbabwe or Air Zambia it would have long gone.

do share your thoughts !


AIX has "96"(not a typo) permanent employees, AI has 11,000 permanent, AIX has 1000-1200 total, AI has 17,000 total, including contractors. Vistara is the only other airline in India can match AIX in employee efficiency. 6E actually the worst performer in employee count. PS: Numbers are approximate, shills need not nitpick.

Bundling bad units with good units to obscure the reality is a long-standing tradition by the Indian government. Before the merger, only the old AI would have been debt-ridden, that also because of WB purchases. Now the entire group is debt-ridden,

If GoI pays enough SG and 6E can evacuate stranded Indians, otherwise they can swim, no big deal. Any registered carrier can do the job.
Modi can take Emirates charters, no big deal.

AI will be shut down to show it as divestment. With all the debt(which will remain on GoI books) even after AI shutdown, can it be counted as divestment, only economists can tell.


So what do you think the future of Vistara is..Given it has the backing of two very experienced brands do you think after AI's exit they will be able to be a lone FSC and Survive in the indian market PLUS make profit..?
Last edited by FligtReporter on Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 191
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:27 pm

unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

AIX has "96"(not a typo) permanent employees, AI has 11,000 permanent, AIX has 1000-1200 total, AI has 17,000 total, including contractors. Vistara is the only other airline in India can match AIX in employee efficiency. 6E actually the worst performer in employee count. PS: Numbers are approximate, shills need not nitpick.

Bundling bad units with good units to obscure the reality is a long-standing tradition by the Indian government. Before the merger, only the old AI would have been debt-ridden, that also because of WB purchases. Now the entire group is debt-ridden,

If GoI pays enough SG and 6E can evacuate stranded Indians, otherwise they can swim, no big deal. Any registered carrier can do the job.
Modi can take Emirates charters, no big deal.

AI will be shut down to show it as divestment. With all the debt(which will remain on GoI books) even after AI shutdown, can it be counted as divestment, only economists can tell.


Too pressed for time these days to do a line by line FACTCHECK.
Readers of this thread may regard the above comment as mostly made up alternate facts and irrelevant metrics.


I would love to have your opinion about my question about AI's fall ( IF IT EVER SHUTS DOWN ) and the future of FSCs in India whicj seems like Vistara the lone FSC !
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:43 pm

FligtReporter wrote:

Now I see a lot of people talkin about how the Gov should shut AI down and stuff though there are reports of it being privatised but I dunno what the future holds,However For me,I think AI has served the Indian people in many great ways like carrying out the worlds largest Human Evacuation by a commercial airline,Evactuation of Indians and foreigners in Yemen and also Kathmandu Earthquake 2015 etc.!


AI doesn't function like other private commercial entities who are always working along the lines of profit or loss as their survival depends on that. AI doesn't care much of that, though they pretend to, as even with mega losses they'll live and so they can do what they want like evacuations and stuff because the govt. eventually foots the bills. Also, they do such favors as per govt. direction. If AI was privatised, they would act like any other pvt. airline regarding such emergency situations. So, at the end of the day govts paying off those bills. So without AI, govt can ask pvt. airlines to chip in and pay them for that service. Would be more cost effective too, because govt would exactly pay for evacuation purpose and not like in AI where they would have to pay for all the losses made by the airline even on a regular day.
So your point doesn't make any sense. Why keep pumping thousands of crores each year to keep alive a carrier that may come handy in a rare emergency situation. Instead pay a fraction of that to pvt. carriers as and when required and ask for their help.
Last edited by avier on Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
lutfi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:43 pm

Hearing that Vistara has finally got permissions for DXB, BKK, SIN, KTM, CMB
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:46 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
So what do you think the future of Vistara is..Given it has the backing of two very experienced brands do you think after AI's exit they will be able to be a lone FSC and Survive in the indian market PLUS make profit..?


Without structural reforms in finance and aviation sectors, all airlines are just house of cards, ready to fall anytime. Vistara will be the lonely FSC for some time, but I am not sure it will in business for the next 25 years.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:49 pm

lutfi wrote:
Hearing that Vistara has finally got permissions for DXB, BKK, SIN, KTM, CMB


I just can't believe that Vistara isn't jumping in to a few key long haul flights like LON, HKG and on other EU hub where they partner with an EU airline for onward connections. I am all for being cautious but India's largest FSC just shut down. If now is not the opportunity when will? Just take 5 used SQ 787s and start. You take the above cities plus the 3 cities I suggested and UK would be a good option for business travelers out of BOM at least.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:58 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

Without structural reforms in finance and aviation sectors, all airlines are just house of cards, ready to fall anytime. Vistara will be the lonely FSC for some time, but I am not sure it will in business for the next 25 years.

With the fall of Jet the Indian airline industry is healthier than ever
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:00 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

I just can't believe that Vistara isn't jumping in to a few key long haul flights like LON, HKG and on other EU hub where they partner with an EU airline for onward connections. I am all for being cautious but India's largest FSC just shut down. If now is not the opportunity when will? Just take 5 used SQ 787s and start. You take the above cities plus the 3 cities I suggested and UK would be a good option for business travelers out of BOM at least.


How can Vistara fly to these places when they don't have the rights? How can they get the rights when they are still with Jet?
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:03 pm

unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Without structural reforms in finance and aviation sectors, all airlines are just house of cards, ready to fall anytime. Vistara will be the lonely FSC for some time, but I am not sure it will in business for the next 25 years.

With the fall of Jet the Indian airline industry is healthier than ever


Yeah, just wait for 12 months or so, and the industry will be back to where it was. Market leader will continue throwing capacity at break neck speed. And then another carrier should pay the price of market leaders capacity dumping by going under to bring the industry back to normal/healthy. This trend will continue till market leader becomes sole carrier of country.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:04 pm

unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Without structural reforms in finance and aviation sectors, all airlines are just house of cards, ready to fall anytime. Vistara will be the lonely FSC for some time, but I am not sure it will in business for the next 25 years.

With the fall of Jet the Indian airline industry is healthier than ever


How do you say that? Short term profits are not expected by anyone to continue once capacity rises again. India still lacks a functioning hub, has super low Indian airline market share for intl flights, some of the highest taxation in the world, etc etc. The largest FSC just collapsed and you don't feel the time is ripe for real structural change in Indian aviation (taxation, regulation). Even if NG was 75% responsible for Jet's fall, at least 25% resides with regulation/taxation. Is there a major economy who's aviation is in worst shape? Maybe South Africa, but I think even Brazil is healthier.
 
FligtReporter
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:07 pm

avier wrote:
unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Without structural reforms in finance and aviation sectors, all airlines are just house of cards, ready to fall anytime. Vistara will be the lonely FSC for some time, but I am not sure it will in business for the next 25 years.

With the fall of Jet the Indian airline industry is healthier than ever


Yeah, just wait for 12 months or so, and the industry will be back to where it was. Market leader will continue throwing capacity at break neck speed. And then another carrier should pay the price of anothers capacity dumping by going under to bring the industry back to normal/healthy. This trend will continue till market leader becomes sole carrier of country.


Market Leader at the moment seems to be IndiGo..I have no hopes for AI being privatised I mean if its not then it seems the gov will keep flying it as it is which is not good as its eating the money of tax payers and in return not really getting a healthy return.Vistara seems to offer a much better product in FSC comparin the two..So it seems 6E will continue to be the largest carier however They will have to induct wide bodies or they would remain just a regional airline whereas UK and AI will reap the benefits of Long haul...Lets see.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:08 pm

unrave wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

I just can't believe that Vistara isn't jumping in to a few key long haul flights like LON, HKG and on other EU hub where they partner with an EU airline for onward connections. I am all for being cautious but India's largest FSC just shut down. If now is not the opportunity when will? Just take 5 used SQ 787s and start. You take the above cities plus the 3 cities I suggested and UK would be a good option for business travelers out of BOM at least.


How can Vistara fly to these places when they don't have the rights? How can they get the rights when they are still with Jet?


Not sure about HKG but the bilateral to London and most major EU hubs are not full. So unclear what you mean. I think even HKG has room but not sure form BOM/DEL (I think each side can operate two flights from each city). It has been really surprising that no Indian airline feels that Jet's demise opens the door for them to start long haul. Wasn't it a year ago Spice and indigo were taking about long haul. Jet disappears and everyone is quiet. I get that it is early and things take time...but still there are some slam dunk opportunities. Seems like the international seat shortfall is being filled by foreign airlines. Great that the capacity was added but Indian market share goes down even more.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:13 pm

avier wrote:
unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Without structural reforms in finance and aviation sectors, all airlines are just house of cards, ready to fall anytime. Vistara will be the lonely FSC for some time, but I am not sure it will in business for the next 25 years.

With the fall of Jet the Indian airline industry is healthier than ever


Yeah, just wait for 12 months or so, and the industry will be back to where it was. Market leader will continue throwing capacity at break neck speed. And then another carrier should pay the price of market leaders capacity dumping by going under to bring the industry back to normal/healthy. This trend will continue till market leader becomes sole carrier of country.

Please look up the meaning of dumping in a dictionary.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:26 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
I have no hopes for AI being privatised ...
...Vistara seems to offer a much better product in FSC comparin the two..So it seems 6E will continue to be the largest carier however They will have to induct wide bodies or they would remain just a regional airline whereas UK and AI will reap the benefits of Long haul...Lets see.


Regarding your question of; will Vistara will be the lone FSC if AI disappears, I don't think so. I suspect some other carrier existing (Spice or GoAir) or new may join the fray i.e either through a hybrid model (like Spicebiz) or a new setup by some big conglomerates. Afterall, many new airports are coming up at bigger cities along with expansion of existing ones along with huge growth potential which will make the industry more attractive for investors to come in. Currently, slot exhaustion at lucrative airports is keeping away new investors from wanting to come in to the industry.

Also could be some foreign carrier like Gulf biggies, or Lion air group/Jetstar may be keen in the future to setup Indian ventures. This offcourse is a far off possibility, but they are currently doing this in other countries, so not impossible too.
 
FligtReporter
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:28 pm

avier wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
I have no hopes for AI being privatised ...
...Vistara seems to offer a much better product in FSC comparin the two..So it seems 6E will continue to be the largest carier however They will have to induct wide bodies or they would remain just a regional airline whereas UK and AI will reap the benefits of Long haul...Lets see.


Regarding your question of; will Vistara will be the lone FSC if AI disappears, I don't think so. I suspect some other carrier existing (Spice or GoAir) or new may join the fray i.e either through a hybrid model (like Spicebiz) or a new setup by some big conglomerates. Afterall, many new airports are coming up at bigger cities along with expansion of existing ones along with huge growth potential which will make the industry more attractive for investors to come in. Currently, slot exhaustion at lucrative airports is keeping away new investors from wanting to come in to the industry.

Also could be some foreign carrier like Gulf biggies, or Lion air group/Jetstar may be keen in the future to setup Indian ventures. This offcourse is a far off possibility, but they are currently doing this in other countries, so not impossible too.


Intresting..Thanks for your response !
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:30 pm

unrave wrote:
Please look up the meaning of dumping in a dictionary.


https://www.travel-industry-dictionary. ... mping.html
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:42 pm

avier wrote:
unrave wrote:
Please look up the meaning of dumping in a dictionary.


https://www.travel-industry-dictionary. ... mping.html

Not that I quite agree with this definition but how is this relevant wrt to 6E and 9W? One had 55% revenues from international ops and other had 5%
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:53 pm

unrave wrote:
avier wrote:
unrave wrote:
Please look up the meaning of dumping in a dictionary.


https://www.travel-industry-dictionary. ... mping.html

Not that I quite agree with this definition but how is this relevant wrt to 6E and 9W? One had 55% revenues from international ops and other had 5%


Why just 9W? Did you forget SG had a near death experience a while back? Thanks to the govt. bending rules as usual for them they made it. Agreed 9W had other issues plaguing them too, but their home market was messed up with low yields. Int'l too they faced competition on most Gulf and South East Asian sectors from LCC's, including from state backed AIX. They flew only a handful of long hauls free from 6E or low yield carriers interference, which wouldn't be a defining factor of their fate.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:59 pm

avier wrote:
unrave wrote:
avier wrote:

Not that I quite agree with this definition but how is this relevant wrt to 6E and 9W? One had 55% revenues from international ops and other had 5%


Why just 9W? Did you forget SG had a near death experience a while back? Thanks to the govt. bending rules as usual for them they made it. Agreed 9W had other issues plaguing them too, but their home market was messed up with low yields. Int'l too they faced competition on most Gulf and South East Asian sectors from LCC's, including from state backed AIX. They flew only a handful of long hauls free from 6E or low yield carriers interference, which wouldn't be a defining factor of their fate.

Oh now you're blaming 6E for SG's meltdown too. This show what poor understanding you have about events that led to SG's near death.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:27 pm

unrave wrote:
Oh now you're blaming 6E for SG's meltdown too.

Not completely. But if you've been following the route developments of the two carriers you'd know how 6E shoo's away SG from many routes. Or are you unaware or rather in denial of that too?

*Also now don't state examples of SG mounting flights on 6E routes from the very lucrative BOM using Jet slots, that's a different ball game altogether.
 
FligtReporter
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:39 pm

avier wrote:
unrave wrote:
Oh now you're blaming 6E for SG's meltdown too.

Not completely. But if you've been following the route developments of the two carriers you'd know how 6E shoo's away SG from many routes. Or are you unaware or rather in denial of that too?

*Also now don't state examples of SG mounting flights on 6E routes from the very lucrative BOM using Jet slots, that's a different ball game altogether.


Ok so im from Lucknow and I can tell you that VILK is dominated by 6E and we have 4 6E birds parked here overnight which leaves early morning and 6E is the only airline that operates all day and night and because of 6E spicejet isnt even flyin to Lucknow..they actually did a few years back but I guess your right 6E shooed them away lolz.

Honestly I think 6E is the future of India and LCC model is the way for aviation industries around the world.Im sure a few years from now even AI and UK would be charging for snacks and meals like United,American,Air canad do in Domestic flights because with fuel prices and compition Im sure This trend of FREE MEALS is soon gonna disappear if these FSCs really have to stay afloat

Wht you guys think ?
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:47 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
avier wrote:
unrave wrote:
Oh now you're blaming 6E for SG's meltdown too.

Not completely. But if you've been following the route developments of the two carriers you'd know how 6E shoo's away SG from many routes. Or are you unaware or rather in denial of that too?

*Also now don't state examples of SG mounting flights on 6E routes from the very lucrative BOM using Jet slots, that's a different ball game altogether.


Ok so im from Lucknow and I can tell you that VILK is dominated by 6E and we have 4 6E birds parked here overnight which leaves early morning and 6E is the only airline that operates all day and night and because of 6E spicejet isnt even flyin to Lucknow..they actually did a few years back but I guess your right 6E shooed them away lolz.

Honestly I think 6E is the future of India and LCC model is the way for aviation industries around the world.Im sure a few years from now even AI and UK would be charging for snacks and meals like United,American,Air canad do in Domestic flights because with fuel prices and compition Im sure This trend of FREE MEALS is soon gonna disappear if these FSCs really have to stay afloat

Wht you guys think ?


I think AI and UK should charge for snacks and bags domestically. They should follow the EU and US model of lite, normal, business fares with BOB. What makes an airline FSC IMHO are offering connections, reliability, advanced apps and web functionality, baggage interline, etc. On long haul I think the normal model of food free with 1 bag free is good enough for India. Seats can be for a fee.
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:51 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
Ok so im from Lucknow and I can tell you that VILK is dominated by 6E and we have 4 6E birds parked here overnight which leaves early morning and 6E is the only airline that operates all day and night and because of 6E spicejet isnt even flyin to Lucknow..they actually did a few years back but I guess your right 6E shooed them away lolz.

Honestly I think 6E is the future of India ....
... few years from now even AI and UK would be charging for snacks and meals


SG's new favorite cities outside their newly acquired BOM(slots) are Kanpur, Jharsuguda and Durgapur. It's not hard to guess why. Unless you remain in denial of something.

Regarding 6E being future of India, it's already happening..with 50% market share in one of the largest aviation domestic markets.

Free meals are already being done away with and was started by Jet and then Vistara offering "no-meal" fares, which is lowest fare option and obviously most people book lowest fares. AI might follow soon after their only veg cost-cutting excercise.
 
FligtReporter
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:27 pm

avier wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
Ok so im from Lucknow and I can tell you that VILK is dominated by 6E and we have 4 6E birds parked here overnight which leaves early morning and 6E is the only airline that operates all day and night and because of 6E spicejet isnt even flyin to Lucknow..they actually did a few years back but I guess your right 6E shooed them away lolz.

Honestly I think 6E is the future of India ....
... few years from now even AI and UK would be charging for snacks and meals


SG's new favorite cities outside their newly acquired BOM(slots) are Kanpur, Jharsuguda and Durgapur. It's not hard to guess why. Unless you remain in denial of something.

Regarding 6E being future of India, it's already happening..with 50% market share in one of the largest aviation domestic markets.

Free meals are already being done away with and was started by Jet and then Vistara offering "no-meal" fares, which is lowest fare option and obviously most people book lowest fares. AI might follow soon after their only veg cost-cutting excercise.


I agree..IndiGo in such a short time became Asia's second best LCC in fact one of the worlds best..I also love their seats and legroom which are much more spacious and better than cramped Goair,AirAsia and spicejet.

IndiGo doesnt do different things they just do same things differently which other LCCs fail to do..their On time perforamance is the key in them becoming the champions..Honestly I hate to really like them..I mean its hard to ignore their tickets cause they offer the cheapest tickets and you get great cabin and legroom so its like indians are lovingly forced to book IndiGo llollz.

Many indians would hate to admit but they secretly love indiGo i guess :D
 
VTORD
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:24 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

I think AI and UK should charge for snacks and bags domestically. They should follow the EU and US model of lite, normal, business fares with BOB. What makes an airline FSC IMHO are offering connections, reliability, advanced apps and web functionality, baggage interline, etc. On long haul I think the normal model of food free with 1 bag free is good enough for India. Seats can be for a fee.

Agreed. Except I think internationally they should stick to 2 free bags rather than 1. For the Indian market that is a better strategy.

Also I think one of the smartest moves by US carriers was the Economic Basic fares. The backpackers and holiday crowd doesn't mind those and the next cheapest fares for earning mileage are at least $100 more so those who care about miles and status and such will pay that premium even if the Basic Econ fares are available.
 
VTORD
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:34 pm

Was poking around the UK website ans saw something odd on their flight schedules page (too lazy to post a screen shot):
Flight# UK0866
Origin: (undefined) BDQ 00:10
Dest: BOM 01:00
Freq: TUE effective 11-Jun - 11-Jun
Would this be a ex-9W 737 stored at BDQ?
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:37 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lutfi wrote:
Hearing that Vistara has finally got permissions for DXB, BKK, SIN, KTM, CMB


I just can't believe that Vistara isn't jumping in to a few key long haul flights like LON, HKG and on other EU hub where they partner with an EU airline for onward connections. I am all for being cautious but India's largest FSC just shut down. If now is not the opportunity when will? Just take 5 used SQ 787s and start. You take the above cities plus the 3 cities I suggested and UK would be a good option for business travelers out of BOM at least.

You make it sound so simple. Take some planes and start long haul international service is quite ludicrous.

I'm not in Airline business but still I can list a few things :
  • Is there a business plan
  • Is it feasible for them
  • Get the right pilots
  • Training the crew for long haul
  • Figuring out lodging arrangements in destination city
  • Negotiating fuel supply
  • Getting mechanical support
  • Getting ground staff on air side (baggage handles, etc.)
  • Getting land side staff (checkin, boarding staff, etc.)
  • Designing meals for long haul flights
  • Getting meals and on board stuff for the return flight
  • Designing the right business class product, its a FSC after all
  • Have the right marketing plan
  • Diversion and alternate airport contracts
and I can go on.

Hope you don't start business by just by taking "some" inventory and hope it works.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:43 pm

VTORD wrote:
Was poking around the UK website ans saw something odd on their flight schedules page (too lazy to post a screen shot):
Flight# UK0866
Origin: (undefined) BDQ 00:10
Dest: BOM 01:00
Freq: TUE effective 11-Jun - 11-Jun
Would this be a ex-9W 737 stored at BDQ?

Wow leaving BDQ that late. It would be interesting to see if there is a market for it from BDQ.
Love the AIXes
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:59 pm

aarbee wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
lutfi wrote:
Hearing that Vistara has finally got permissions for DXB, BKK, SIN, KTM, CMB


I just can't believe that Vistara isn't jumping in to a few key long haul flights like LON, HKG and on other EU hub where they partner with an EU airline for onward connections. I am all for being cautious but India's largest FSC just shut down. If now is not the opportunity when will? Just take 5 used SQ 787s and start. You take the above cities plus the 3 cities I suggested and UK would be a good option for business travelers out of BOM at least.

You make it sound so simple. Take some planes and start long haul international service is quite ludicrous.

I'm not in Airline business but still I can list a few things :
  • Is there a business plan
  • Is it feasible for them
  • Get the right pilots
  • Training the crew for long haul
  • Figuring out lodging arrangements in destination city
  • Negotiating fuel supply
  • Getting mechanical support
  • Getting ground staff on air side (baggage handles, etc.)
  • Getting land side staff (checkin, boarding staff, etc.)
  • Designing meals for long haul flights
  • Getting meals and on board stuff for the return flight
  • Designing the right business class product, its a FSC after all
  • Have the right marketing plan
  • Diversion and alternate airport contracts
and I can go on.

Hope you don't start business by just by taking "some" inventory and hope it works.

-R


Ugh, sorry I assumed since this was an aviation board, I wouldn't have to state the obvious. Vistara is a partnership with SQ. Right there you can tick off most of your list from ground staff in outside stations to expertise. Plus I never said start tomorrow. Start in October (winter schedule). They would use SQ's seats, IFE etc and can even wet lease the aircraft if needed. Also they have the backing of the Tatas and Tata consultancy. I mean how much resources do Indian companies need to launch long haul?

So now given the above, do you still think Vistara should be so overly cautious? How much lead time do you think is fair - 6 months, 1 year, 5 years? Love to hear your thoughts. Btw still don't think what I asked was "ludicrous" - that is a strong word.
 
avier
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:01 pm

VTORD wrote:
Was poking around the UK website ans saw something odd on their flight schedules page (too lazy to post a screen shot):
Flight# UK0866
Origin: (undefined) BDQ 00:10
Dest: BOM 01:00
Freq: TUE effective 11-Jun - 11-Jun
Would this be a ex-9W 737 stored at BDQ?


That was last night's diversion of their UK866 BLR-BOM flight to BDQ due to bad weather at BOM. That wouldn't show on their published schedule of course and would be just a flight status mostly.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1626
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:02 am

lutfi wrote:
Hearing that Vistara has finally got permissions for DXB, BKK, SIN, KTM, CMB


1. Do you know when Vistara is scheduled to operate those routes (the effetive commencement date?)

2. What international rights have the other airlines been allocated? For instance, we know Indigo was awarded Calcutta - Hong Kong.

In my opinion, Vistara should jump on the DXB and SIN routes first.

I assume Vistara passed on the Hong Kong slots as they probably will serve destinations to the routes east/ north-east/south of Singapore by serving as a feeder to Singapore Airlines. And why wouldn't they?

I think they should give BKK a pass. Let Indigo and SpiceJet serve the massage crowd.

Colombo should be given a pass until tourism picks up.

I didn't know that money was to be made for flights to Kathmandu. Where is the demand coming from? Indian residents fleeing from the summer heat?
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:22 am

So now below is the link,likes of which always keeps AI stalling..I dont get it like is AI gonna fly forever like this with gov pumpin in money and trying to show that they are really working towards gettin it privatised and have this conflicting ideas within their system at the same time ?

Also there is a recent news of AI posting losses over 7K Cr..Y not just shut it down..if all thats been given to AI had even a percentage of it had been given to Kingfishers we would have a 5 Star airline probably.

https://m.businesstoday.in/story/rss-af ... 55141.html
 
VTORD
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:33 am

avier wrote:
That was last night's diversion of their UK866 BLR-BOM flight to BDQ due to bad weather at BOM. That wouldn't show on their published schedule of course and would be just a flight status mostly.

Thanks! I forgot about that thunderstorm...

edealinfo wrote:

Colombo should be given a pass until tourism picks up.

I didn't know that money was to be made for flights to Kathmandu. Where is the demand coming from? Indian residents fleeing from the summer heat?

Isn't CMB to be their first international route? It doesn't start till September so there is still some time for the tourism to recover. MAA and DEL are on the top 10 destinations list from CMB for Sri Lankan Airlines so expect some competitive fares.

I would assume a significant number of Nepalese people work in India, tourism plus the religious travel between India-Nepal/Sri Lanka is considerable. I know some Nepalese friends who used to transit to NA/EU from 9W at DEL. There is a big Nepalese diaspora in EU and I am not sure how much of the traffic is being handled by Nepal Airlines + ME3 and how much transits DEL.

I am assuming a lion's share of the $6+ billion trade could be done on road between India and Nepal, there could be some business traffic to be had because of that. I am sure the food/beverage folks must be making a few trips between the 2 countries.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1626
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:47 am

VTORD wrote:
I would assume a significant number of Nepalese people work in India, tourism plus the religious travel between India-Nepal/Sri Lanka is considerable. I know some Nepalese friends who used to transit to NA/EU from 9W at DEL. There is a big Nepalese diaspora in EU and I am not sure how much of the traffic is being handled by Nepal Airlines + ME3 and how much transits DEL.

I am assuming a lion's share of the $6+ billion trade could be done on road between India and Nepal, there could be some business traffic to be had because of that. I am sure the food/beverage folks must be making a few trips between the 2 countries.


Thanks for the perspective. Do you know if Pakistan has lifted the air restrictions? If not, would a DEL to DXB flight have to take a longer route than necessary on how much extra time is added by that diversion? I assume Vista wouldn't announce flights to DXB until the restrictions are lifted.

Separately, I wonder if a DXB or SIN flight will be more profitable for Vistara. Opinions welcome.
 
lutfi
Posts: 883
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:33 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:57 am

The Indian government can't allocate slots at HKG. They can only allocate traffic rights. Airline then applies as normal process for slots...

Note that IATA are already complaining that Indian govt is not following recommended slot allocation process for domestic slots. Obviously this is purely an Indian domestic political issue, but IATA world wide have a stake in ensuring slots are given out on transparent rules based process...
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:05 am

lutfi wrote:
The Indian government can't allocate slots at HKG. They can only allocate traffic rights. Airline then applies as normal process for slots...

Note that IATA are already complaining that Indian govt is not following recommended slot allocation process for domestic slots. Obviously this is purely an Indian domestic political issue, but IATA world wide have a stake in ensuring slots are given out on transparent rules based process...


I’m surprised people haven’t comment on IATA’s comments. Remember mostly everyone on the India/Jet forums have felt the slot allocation process was totally fair and that a first come first served process was right on the mark. IATA seems to think differently. So I ask those that attacked people who objected to the indian slot process as it relates to Jet’s slots, what do you think about IATA’s comments???? Also these are factual comments from IATA so fake news it is not.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2109
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:10 am

FligtReporter wrote:

Also there is a recent news of AI posting losses over 7K Cr..Y not just shut it down..if all thats been given to AI had even a percentage of it had been given to Kingfishers we would have a 5 Star airline probably.

https://m.businesstoday.in/story/rss-af ... 55141.html


AI's 60% expenditures go back to govt PSUs in form of taxes and loan liabilities.

That said, I don't support its operation in its current form at all. There's no reason why AI employees should be allowed to act so recklessly and get away with everything. We at private airlines work very hard to ensure profitability. AI is not bothered by that at all.


CaliguyNYC wrote:

I’m surprised people haven’t comment on IATA’s comments. Remember mostly everyone on the India/Jet forums have felt the slot allocation process was totally fair and that a first come first served process was right on the mark. IATA seems to think differently. So I ask those that attacked people who objected to the indian slot process as it relates to Jet’s slots, what do you think about IATA’s comments???? Also these are factual comments from IATA so fake news it is not.


Just what I think about WTO's comments on US trade tariffs
Or DXB and China's transparent slot allocation process
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:56 am

anshabhi wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:

Also there is a recent news of AI posting losses over 7K Cr..Y not just shut it down..if all thats been given to AI had even a percentage of it had been given to Kingfishers we would have a 5 Star airline probably.

https://m.businesstoday.in/story/rss-af ... 55141.html


AI's 60% expenditures go back to govt PSUs in form of taxes and loan liabilities.

That said, I don't support its operation in its current form at all. There's no reason why AI employees should be allowed to act so recklessly and get away with everything. We at private airlines work very hard to ensure profitability. AI is not bothered by that at all


Im glad to know that now Im talking with someone who is IN the INDIAN Aviation industry..So Mr.Abhi with this "CHALTA HAI" attitude of AI's staff and the governments negligence which is due to the fact thay they are RECIEVING the money from AI however when it comes to heal up the losses of AI they pump in more money FROM the Common man into this ENTITY called AI.

Now where does a common man go ? I mean are we indians gonna have to bare AI forever ? Like I have no problems with AI in particular the problem is with the management and their lazy staff,If they improvise their whole system I would the happiest.

I like their Domestic product which is the best in India IMO in terms of legroom,Baggage,Meals etc however their staff is like as if they own the planes and passengers are at their mercy.

So My questions are

1.Why GOI Isnt shutting AI down ?
2.Will AI ever go away from the Indian aviation ?
3.Will It be Privatised or IF there is even a slight chance of it being privatised in the near future

OR

You also think AI will continue on its AS IT IS Condition for another 70 or so years ?

Thanks in advance.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2615
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:26 am

FligtReporter wrote:

Many indians would hate to admit but they secretly love indiGo i guess :D

I love successful companies that make money.
IndiGo is widely successful and makes a lot of money.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:30 am

unrave wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:

Many indians would hate to admit but they secretly love indiGo i guess :D

I love successful companies that make money.
IndiGo is widely successful and makes a lot of money.

I love 6E too and i guess those who have ever flown Air Asia,Ryan or Easyjet outside of India would agree that its the best LCC in the world...The Legroom,Seats etc are much better than all the three mentioned.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2615
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:29 am

IndiGo to launch daily flights on Delhi-Chengdu from 15SEP
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:35 am

unrave wrote:
IndiGo to launch daily flights on Delhi-Chengdu from 15SEP


Damn Jus yesterday they announced CCU-HKG and today this..IndiGo is like the Taylow Swift of Aviation lolz You never know what single is coming next !! :D

Good for them !
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2109
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:56 am

FligtReporter wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:

Also there is a recent news of AI posting losses over 7K Cr..Y not just shut it down..if all thats been given to AI had even a percentage of it had been given to Kingfishers we would have a 5 Star airline probably.

https://m.businesstoday.in/story/rss-af ... 55141.html


AI's 60% expenditures go back to govt PSUs in form of taxes and loan liabilities.

That said, I don't support its operation in its current form at all. There's no reason why AI employees should be allowed to act so recklessly and get away with everything. We at private airlines work very hard to ensure profitability. AI is not bothered by that at all


Im glad to know that now Im talking with someone who is IN the INDIAN Aviation industry..So Mr.Abhi with this "CHALTA HAI" attitude of AI's staff and the governments negligence which is due to the fact thay they are RECIEVING the money from AI however when it comes to heal up the losses of AI they pump in more money FROM the Common man into this ENTITY called AI.

Now where does a common man go ? I mean are we indians gonna have to bare AI forever ? Like I have no problems with AI in particular the problem is with the management and their lazy staff,If they improvise their whole system I would the happiest.

I like their Domestic product which is the best in India IMO in terms of legroom,Baggage,Meals etc however their staff is like as if they own the planes and passengers are at their mercy.

So My questions are

1.Why GOI Isnt shutting AI down ?
2.Will AI ever go away from the Indian aviation ?
3.Will It be Privatised or IF there is even a slight chance of it being privatised in the near future

OR

You also think AI will continue on its AS IT IS Condition for another 70 or so years ?

Thanks in advance.

Chill dude! I am just an intern at an Indian Airline. (My Airline has 12k employees and 52 senior management and I am below all of them :) )Your questions have been discussed in depth in several threads like:
viewtopic.php?t=1383239

I can't really add anything to that. But the summary is while operational, AI is servicing ₹55k crore debt accumulated over years while still carrying millions of people over the year and AI's CMD himself believes an airline can't run in sarkari atmosphere.

https://mobile.twitter.com/shukla_tarun ... 6163299329
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:47 am

anshabhi wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
anshabhi wrote:

AI's 60% expenditures go back to govt PSUs in form of taxes and loan liabilities.

That said, I don't support its operation in its current form at all. There's no reason why AI employees should be allowed to act so recklessly and get away with everything. We at private airlines work very hard to ensure profitability. AI is not bothered by that at all


Im glad to know that now Im talking with someone who is IN the INDIAN Aviation industry..So Mr.Abhi with this "CHALTA HAI" attitude of AI's staff and the governments negligence which is due to the fact thay they are RECIEVING the money from AI however when it comes to heal up the losses of AI they pump in more money FROM the Common man into this ENTITY called AI.

Now where does a common man go ? I mean are we indians gonna have to bare AI forever ? Like I have no problems with AI in particular the problem is with the management and their lazy staff,If they improvise their whole system I would the happiest.

I like their Domestic product which is the best in India IMO in terms of legroom,Baggage,Meals etc however their staff is like as if they own the planes and passengers are at their mercy.

So My questions are

1.Why GOI Isnt shutting AI down ?
2.Will AI ever go away from the Indian aviation ?
3.Will It be Privatised or IF there is even a slight chance of it being privatised in the near future

OR

You also think AI will continue on its AS IT IS Condition for another 70 or so years ?

Thanks in advance.

Chill dude! I am just an intern at an Indian Airline. (My Airline has 12k employees and 52 senior management and I am below all of them :) )Your questions have been discussed in depth in several threads like:
viewtopic.php?t=1383239

I can't really add anything to that. But the summary is while operational, AI is servicing ₹55k crore debt accumulated over years while still carrying millions of people over the year and AI's CMD himself believes an airline can't run in sarkari atmosphere.

https://mobile.twitter.com/shukla_tarun ... 6163299329

Yes I have read this post written by Ashwani however I do feel that AI might be sold given the last line of this says somethin like AI will remain the only airline with INDIA in its name or something REGARDLESS to Whoever owns it.

But lets see if its actually sold or not or If it will continue to fly by babus forever.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7075
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:03 pm

anshabhi wrote:
AI's 60% expenditures go back to govt PSUs in form of taxes and loan liabilities.



I don't think Modi or his new finance recruit are aware of that fact. They are focused on divestment goal, hence AI will be shut down in the near future.

That said, I don't support its operation in its current form at all. There's no reason why AI employees should be allowed to act so recklessly and get away with everything. We at private airlines work very hard to ensure profitability. AI is not bothered by that at all.


You claimed you are an intern at a private airline, what kind of cost savings programs you started on your own?

Management does what the owner(GoI) wants.
Employees do what management and owner wants. If the operational structure nurtures inefficiency and incompetency, employees will be inefficient and incompetent as long as they are getting paid.

Somehow the perception in India is employees going out and borrowing money and making airlines debt-ridden. Or because they have a job and got paid, they are responsible for the debt.

Had AI bought only 10 x A343s in 2006 as originally planned, it would be tiny irrelevant airline flying babus and netas.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:15 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
AI's 60% expenditures go back to govt PSUs in form of taxes and loan liabilities.



I don't think Modi or his new finance recruit are aware of that fact. They are focused on divestment goal, hence AI will be shut down in the near future.

That said, I don't support its operation in its current form at all. There's no reason why AI employees should be allowed to act so recklessly and get away with everything. We at private airlines work very hard to ensure profitability. AI is not bothered by that at all.


You claimed you are an intern at a private airline, what kind of cost savings programs you started on your own?

Management does what the owner(GoI) wants.
Employees do what management and owner wants. If the operational structure nurtures inefficiency and incompetency, employees will be inefficient and incompetent as long as they are getting paid.

Somehow the perception in India is employees going out and borrowing money and making airlines debt-ridden. Or because they have a job and got paid, they are responsible for the debt.

Had AI bought only 10 x A343s in 2006 as originally planned, it would be tiny irrelevant airline flying babus and netas.


And what happens if it doesnt shut down in the "NEAR FUTURE" or could you estimate the time frame of that near future as so far so many near futures have come and AI is still eating our money and flying So Id love to have your intellect on the time line as well when your so sure about its shutting down.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7075
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:26 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
...
And what happens if it doesnt shut down in the "NEAR FUTURE" or could you estimate the time frame of that near future as so far so many near futures have come and AI is still eating our money and flying So Id love to have your intellect on the time line as well when your so sure about its shutting down.


It is getting pretty difficult to predict what India is going to do in any matter.

If I have to take a wild guess, it will be around next budget, 55,000 Cr divestment looks good on new recruit's performance report.

There are no options other than the shutdown, no foreign investor will invest in India and the Indian private sector has no money to invest in an airline.

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